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  • #16
    ^ x2

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    • #17
      perhaps one human could not change the earth's climate, nor could 100, 100 000 humans likely couldn't even change the earth's planet, same thing for one million, and perhaps even one hundred million. But... today we have 6.7 Billion humans. That is going to impact the earth - it is delusional to think otherwise.

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      • #18
        http://www.kusi.com/home/78477082.html?video=pop&t=a
        I like what he has to say- a lot!
        Animals are my passion.

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        • #19
          ^ He's seeing what he wants to see in the data. The fact that Earth had undergone many episodes of climate change before humans started burning fossil fuels does not mean anthropogenic global warming can't happen and says nothing about whether it is happening now. The lack of warming in the 1950s and 1960s and the 2000s could easily be natural variability (which would otherwise result in significant cooling) superimposed on a general warming trend. He actually pulled up a computer model from 1980, when the world's fastest supercomputers were less capable than the PC on your desk right now. IPCC predictions are based on much more recent models, although even these make too many simplifications.

          The fact is that CO2 absorbs some wavelengths of infrared radiation, and emitted infrared is the only means by which the energy Earth receives from the sun can be returned to space. Higher CO2 levels WILL make Earth warmer than it otherwise would have been. It is uncertain is by how much, and it is also uncertain how much natural variability will be superimposed on the anthropogenic warming.

          The way I look at the issue, anthropogenic global warming has the potential to have serious consequences, which we may or may not be able to predict. There is also a limited global supply of fossil fuels, which will continue to become more expensive as the remaining supply becomes more difficult to extract. Conflicts over fossil fuel supplies can and do lead to war, and many of them have value as chemical feedstocks as well as fuels. For all of these reasons it seems entirely logical to take steps to minimize our use of fossil fuels, even if the effect of increased CO2 levels on our climate turns out to be small.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Komrade View Post
            Personally I think its a natural cycle. I dont think humans have as much effect on it as we are lead to think. I do think that the new era of 'green' thought is more political is origins than anything to do with the environment. Just look at Copenhagen for example. It seems more an effort to push forth a form of global government than anything else.

            Ban Ki-moon: “We will establish a global governance structure to monitor and manage the implementation of this.”
            “We need to have a very strong, robust, binding political deal that will have an immediate operational effect. This is not going to be a political declaration, just for the sake of declaration. It is going to be a binding political deal, which will lead to a legally binding treaty next year”

            In a New York Times editorial called 'We Can Do It' (LINK: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/26/op...iht-edban.html) Ki-moon wrote that efforts to impose restrictions on CO2 emissions “Must include an equitable global governance structure.”

            David Rothschild: "It’s past the point of talking. We know historically that the global governance sort of agenda to these issues is very hard to… with all the best intentions it’s very hard to actually activate.”

            EU President Herman Van Rompuy: "“The first step towards the global management of our planet.”
            Thank you for keeping your eyes open Komrade. You are exactly right. Global warming is the catalyst for global governance. That's why they need the sheeple to believe it. Just as 9/11 was the catalyst for war and tighter "security" controls.

            Global warming is only man-made in the sense that it is a man-made scam.

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            • #21
              Simple risk management. Here's a video that describes the situation well, imho.

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mF_an...video_response

              It boils down to the fact that the risks associated with not acting are far greater than the risks associated with acting.

              Edit: Here's his original video, that explains his logic a little bit better, imho:

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zORv8...eature=channel
              Last edited by lat; 17-01-2010, 10:40 AM.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by IKAN104 View Post
                Originally posted by Komrade View Post
                Personally I think its a natural cycle. I dont think humans have as much effect on it as we are lead to think. I do think that the new era of 'green' thought is more political is origins than anything to do with the environment. Just look at Copenhagen for example. It seems more an effort to push forth a form of global government than anything else.

                Ban Ki-moon: “We will establish a global governance structure to monitor and manage the implementation of this.”
                “We need to have a very strong, robust, binding political deal that will have an immediate operational effect. This is not going to be a political declaration, just for the sake of declaration. It is going to be a binding political deal, which will lead to a legally binding treaty next year”

                In a New York Times editorial called 'We Can Do It' (LINK: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/26/op...iht-edban.html) Ki-moon wrote that efforts to impose restrictions on CO2 emissions “Must include an equitable global governance structure.”

                David Rothschild: "It’s past the point of talking. We know historically that the global governance sort of agenda to these issues is very hard to… with all the best intentions it’s very hard to actually activate.”

                EU President Herman Van Rompuy: "“The first step towards the global management of our planet.”
                Thank you for keeping your eyes open Komrade. You are exactly right. Global warming is the catalyst for global governance. That's why they need the sheeple to believe it. Just as 9/11 was the catalyst for war and tighter "security" controls.

                Global warming is only man-made in the sense that it is a man-made scam.
                True true true. Too many ba ba black sheeps.
                youtube.com/BrothersGrim
                facebook.com/BrothersGrimMusic

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                • #23
                  ^ and why is global governance necessarily a bad thing?
                  That is what the UN has been trying to do for decades. They just haven't been very good at it.
                  There are certain things that must be dealt with on a global level. Climate change is one of them.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by andy8244 View Post
                    ....only here! - Albertans are kind'a slow to pick stuff up.
                    You really believe that it's only in Alberta that this debate is ongoing? You really do need to get out more, Andy...

                    Originally posted by IKAN104 View Post
                    Thank you for keeping your eyes open Komrade. You are exactly right. Global warming is the catalyst for global governance. That's why they need the sheeple to believe it. Just as 9/11 was the catalyst for war and tighter "security" controls.
                    Right, because you two are the only two free-thinking folks here, no one else could possibly have done their own research and come to their own conclusions and formed their own opinions if they don't agree with you. Nope, "sheeple," discussion closed.


                    (Credit: XKCD)

                    I'd also love for you to explain how you think the scientific community plans for form this "global governance" you speak of. Scientists for the One World Government? Really, that's your argument against climate change?
                    Strathcona City Separatist

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by edmontonenthusiast View Post
                      I really hope you guys are kidding with some of your responses.

                      Yes of course it's ocurring, and of course we are to blame. It's irresponsible and selfish to think otherwise IMO.

                      Yes, there are natural cycles in the Earth's climate, but from the stats I saw, prior to the Industrial Revolution, we were actually starting to get into a cooling period, but went warmer due to the industrial and urban growth. Not only that, but many stats and predictions show that different things with the climate are off the charts and outside of the normal range that has occurred for as far back as we can trace.
                      You're basing your argument on the assumption that those "stats" you saw are real and true. Haven't you heard about climategate? Those computer models were falsified. That's a fact.

                      Originally posted by edmontonenthusiast View Post
                      How is it perfectly ok and natural for a river to be turned dark instead of clear blue due to dumping of waste and kill many fish. Yeah, that's normal. Yeah, that was not our fault at all, it was the monkeys of course!
                      Now you're just talking about pollution. That negatively affects our environment and our health, but it does not cause global warming and it does not kill the planet. Keep it in perspective.

                      Originally posted by edmontonenthusiast View Post
                      How is it perfectly normal for our ice to be cracking up, falling into the ocean, and melting, thus causing sea levels to rise? Especially at the rate it is now. Or how is it normal to have hurricanes as strong as they have become recently? Way outside the normal realm.
                      Have you seen the sea levels rise?

                      Originally posted by edmontonenthusiast View Post
                      Oh, and yeah...it's perfectly natural for there to be holes in the Ozone layer, or thinning...yeah perfectly natural, right?
                      How do you know there are holes in the Ozone layer?

                      Originally posted by edmontonenthusiast View Post
                      Does everybody just not realize the impact we have on this planet? Look at the midwestern US, it may look like nature from far away satelite images...but it's all HUMAN farms! All the forests we've cut down, and all the pretty green golf courses we've created in Nevada and Arizona...yeah no impact on altering the environment. You keep telling yourselves that.
                      Just an FYI: The forests are there for us to use. We are supposed to cut them down. We are supposed to farm the land. We are supposed to use the resources of earth to live. That is what they are there for. This planet was designed to sustain us and it is doing a fine job.

                      Originally posted by edmontonenthusiast View Post
                      Just wow.
                      Yes, indeed.

                      Originally posted by edmontonenthusiast View Post
                      One of the saddest things about humans is we only act when somethings starring us in the eye, yet we have the brains to solve something prior to it happening. Well, it's too late now I guess.
                      I bet you just saw the movie Avatar didn't you? Evil humans. All they want to do is destroy natural beauty and consume resources. That's the message they want you to hear. Try not to lose your own mind in the midst of the bombardment. Humans are not evil.

                      I'm not trying to slam you with my responses here, but I'm trying to make you think about your own statements. Are you really thinking for yourself and using deductive reasoning?

                      Remember too, that the people who are feeding you all this stuff are the people with all the power. And those people have an agenda. To think that they would never lie to you or keep things from you is very naive.

                      Have you read the draft of the treaty they proposed? I have. And I can tell you that its main focus is to implement a mechanism that will transfer wealth from rich nations to poor nations. They just want to redistribute the wealth. From Edmonton to Uganda. And conveniently they'll need some form of global governance to implement this scheme. Read the document. Here's the link.

                      http://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpre...hagen-2009.pdf

                      If you can do your own research, with an open mind, and disregard the fact that arguments from either side are coming from people who "should know what they're talking about" or "should have your best interests at heart" because they are politicians or because they are the main stream media or because they are scientists or because we just trust NASA and everything they tell us, and if you then still believe what you now believe then I can respect that, but at this point I think you are just a ventriloquists puppet.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by lat View Post
                        ^ and why is global governance necessarily a bad thing?
                        That is what the UN has been trying to do for decades. They just haven't been very good at it.
                        There are certain things that must be dealt with on a global level. Climate change is one of them.
                        It's a bad thing when those that are trying to implement global government are doing so only because they believe they have a divine right to govern because they are better than you (google illuminati). And when that global government implements global communism combined with total control over you and your family and the elimination of all your rights. That's when it's a bad thing.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by RTA View Post
                          Right, because you two are the only two free-thinking folks here, no one else could possibly have done their own research and come to their own conclusions and formed their own opinions if they don't agree with you. Nope, "sheeple," discussion closed.
                          Let's put it this way. Let's say that I'm on side "A" and you're on side "B" of this argument. People who do research into this topic (and I don't mean just watching CBC every night) never move from side "A" to side "B", they only move from side "B" to side "A". Why is that?

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by ikan104 View Post
                            Originally posted by lat View Post
                            ^ and why is global governance necessarily a bad thing?
                            That is what the un has been trying to do for decades. They just haven't been very good at it.
                            There are certain things that must be dealt with on a global level. Climate change is one of them.
                            it's a bad thing when those that are trying to implement global government are doing so only because they believe they have a divine right to govern because they are better than you (google illuminati). And when that global government implements global communism combined with total control over you and your family and the elimination of all your rights. That's when it's a bad thing.
                            hahahahahaha!!!! Wow.

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                            • #29
                              I'm having flashbacks of fluoride, dome houses and tin foil hats.

                              I'm sure that global warming is all the Jew's fault too.. That comment is meant VERY sarcastically.
                              Last edited by edmonton daily photo; 17-01-2010, 11:04 AM.
                              "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by lat View Post
                                Originally posted by ikan104 View Post
                                Originally posted by lat View Post
                                ^ and why is global governance necessarily a bad thing?
                                That is what the un has been trying to do for decades. They just haven't been very good at it.
                                There are certain things that must be dealt with on a global level. Climate change is one of them.
                                it's a bad thing when those that are trying to implement global government are doing so only because they believe they have a divine right to govern because they are better than you (google illuminati). And when that global government implements global communism combined with total control over you and your family and the elimination of all your rights. That's when it's a bad thing.
                                hahahahahaha!!!! Wow.
                                Ah, the laughter of ignorance.

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