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World's Fair discussion Part 2 - Business Case

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  • Originally posted by andy8244 View Post
    With Calgary stating financial worries as a reason to pull out, how do we think Joe-public is going to feel about Edmonton "investing" tax dollars in this scheme in the present economic climate? - I'm sure many may think the money could be better utilized elsewhere?
    How about you start a thread regarding spending priorities instead of trying to derail other threads?
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

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    • Originally posted by Blueline View Post
      The video on the page is pretty decent... makes you realize what is possible.

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      • Originally posted by andy8244 View Post
        With Calgary stating financial worries as a reason to pull out, (...)
        Don't think for one second that was the reason for the pullout...

        The lateness and blatant, crass politicking of the bid's timing and structure virtually guaranteed that Calgary would not get into the game on Expo...it angered too many in the provincial cabinet...if Calgary stood a chance, they'd be in it whole hog...or cow...or whatever...

        ...it was simply a demand for commiserate funding for Calgary should Edmonton get this funding...it was a ME TOO bid...

        ...but "financial worries" is a great way to divert responsibility and pander to those "potholes play perfect poison parlaying pathetic politics" people...
        President and CEO - Airshow.

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        • Originally posted by RichardS View Post
          Originally posted by andy8244 View Post
          With Calgary stating financial worries as a reason to pull out, (...)
          Don't think for one second that was the reason for the pullout...

          The lateness and blatant, crass politicking of the bid's timing and structure virtually guaranteed that Calgary would not get into the game on Expo...it angered too many in the provincial cabinet...if Calgary stood a chance, they'd be in it whole hog...or cow...or whatever...

          ...it was simply a demand for commiserate funding for Calgary should Edmonton get this funding...it was a ME TOO bid...

          ...but "financial worries" is a great way to divert responsibility and pander to those "potholes play perfect poison parlaying pathetic politics" people...
          So true, so very true.

          Now, the the Mayor of Calgary is thinking Calgary should get a billion bucks + (the billion they would have got had they won and actually hosted Expo) to extend LRT and that LRT (assumedly with the newfound wisdom they would not be supported in their Bid) is more important than EXPO. I wonder if he and the cowgirls and boys on Calgary City Council thought that when Calgary hosted the Winter Olympics. I mean really...like we got a billion when they hosted the Olympics...
          http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/...375/story.html

          edit: what was I thinking...The Olympics were in 1988 that is 21 years ago and the Province is still giving millions...to Calgary.
          http://alberta.ca/home/NewsFrame.cfm...F6BBBCB9B.html
          Last edited by EdmTrekker; 04-11-2009, 11:09 PM.

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          • What is a Worlds Fair?

            What exactly are we bidding on? I understand the Olympics and the other games because people have to come (athletes, their families, support groups such as coaches etc, the media). With the Worlds Fair does anybody have to come? I've never been to one but to me it seems that most people who come would use it for an excuse to visit a city that they wanted to visit anyway. Montreal is known all over the world so it is a natural location for the fair. Vancouver is, well Vancouver. Who wouldn't want to go Vancouver? I can see the fair working for those types of cities. But Edmonton is a different matter. Don't get me wrong, I love this city and have lived here for most of my life (and yes I've had many opportunities go move elsewhere). Think of Minneapolis/St. Paul. Is that city - or those cities - on your list of must see places? If not, would it change if they hosted the Worlds Fair? My answers to those two questions are no and no. Now throw in the fact that we are farther away from most people than any other city that has hosted this fair, and you begin to understand my concerns. The legacy infrastructure would be great. But if you throw a big party and nobody comes, who pays? This is a big gamble. I welcome anybody to show me that my concerns are unfounded.

            If a Worlds Fair wouldn't make you want to visit Minneapolis/St. Paul we are in big trouble!

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            • Voice, to answer your question simply investigate how Seattle or Vancouver used the Expo as a galvanizing point to redefine themselves and come into their own.

              Before 1986 Vancouver was not the lotus land it is now, particularly down on the docks.

              Montreal 1967 - What exactly made a natural tourist destination?

              It is a big gamble and that is exactly why this south campus idea is nothing but lame. We need to go bit or go home.
              LA today, Athens tomorrow. I miss E-town.

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              • Voice...

                Your concerns are not unfounded. However, MylesC has a point. Vancouver in the late 1970's and early 1980's is definitely not the Vancouver you see today, especially in the old Expo site on False Creek. You could light that water on fire at one time with all the oil and fuel leaks that abounded there. Expo was the galvanizing point for the rejuvenation of that city. Before then, Vancouver was not that attractive - it simply rained too much...and was actually quite industrial.

                This is still the time where Canada ended at Winnipeg, and anything "west of Winnipeg" was the hinterland. ...and trust me...there were plenty of naysayers to Transpo86...as in who will come to rainy Vancouver...

                I will agree that as is, where is, Edmonton is not that first choice destination. The goal here would be to utilize this event to provide that galvanizing effort to bring people not only to Canada, but to improve Edmonton. That is why things like site location and theme are crucial.

                Your example of MSP is apt, but I would say that with an Expo, MSP would not be a bad place to visit. I spent some quality time in Minnesota, and the place is not that bad. I'd visit Expo 2020 in Minnie...if the theme and the event was programmed right....

                ....and that's the kicker. Programming...giving people a reason to come to Canada, and by extension...Edmonton. The key thing that our friends at the EEDC forgot is that the Olympics are seen as the CANADIAN Olympics...hosted in Vancouver. EXPO 2017 is CANADA'S Expo...hosted in Edmonton. So, of course every city and province will be here...as we should have been in Van2010....

                A poorly programmed fair will bring nada to Edmonton...you have to give people a reason to come and a site to behold...

                Otherwise...forget the party...and build the vaunted campus and LRT...save us the embarassment.


                Big gamble...yes...but the retort cliche is nothing ventured...nothing gained...
                President and CEO - Airshow.

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                • So what does it take to make such a gamble a success? Certain a lot of luck (no financial melt-down in 2017, no major terrorist attacks south of the border, etc) but what about things we have control over. Where should it be, if not south campus? What should it offer people? Presumably we don't need to build a big Montreal style sphere but we must have some defining thing or place. What is our False Creek. Certainly not the quarters as that is just a remnant of what it once was and another building just went down this week.

                  What would it take to make the world take notice?

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                  • If an EXPO bid for Edmonton was based on the theme of "A World Beyond Oil", I suppose we could present an Edmonton as a ghost town in 100 years. As much as everyone here may want to believe places like Edmonton can be great cities, they never will be. Landscapes that are void of geographical value do not make for world class cities. People live near water...and by water I don't mean glacial melt tributaries. Vancouver may have been a hell hole prior to '86, but it was a great place waiting to happen geographically. Face it, Calgary will be in the same boat as Edmonton in 100 years, and so will all the recreational hubs around them which require them to survive, at which point our resources are either deminished or moved past. This doesn't mean we can't enjoy Edmonton today and make the best of it. But false hope can lead to a lot of wasted money.

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                    • Wow... there's an ignorant point of view for you all to ponder.

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                      • Originally posted by taylorc View Post
                        If an EXPO bid for Edmonton was based on the theme of "A World Beyond Oil", I suppose we could present an Edmonton as a ghost town in 100 years. As much as everyone here may want to believe places like Edmonton can be great cities, they never will be. Landscapes that are void of geographical value do not make for world class cities. People live near water...and by water I don't mean glacial melt tributaries. Vancouver may have been a hell hole prior to '86, but it was a great place waiting to happen geographically. Face it, Calgary will be in the same boat as Edmonton in 100 years, and so will all the recreational hubs around them which require them to survive, at which point our resources are either deminished or moved past. This doesn't mean we can't enjoy Edmonton today and make the best of it. But false hope can lead to a lot of wasted money.
                        I think that there is a great future for cities that do not have threats of tsunami's, earthquakes, floods, hurricanes etc. In fact in Canada, how many major cities can make that claim along with Edmonton? Of course we do have the occasional tornado. As for geographical value, check this photo posted by Herr_Verlage in the Images of Edmonton forum. Now that is geographical value!

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                        • Originally posted by Voice View Post
                          So what does it take to make such a gamble a success?......What should it offer people? ..... Presumably we don't need to build a big Montreal style sphere but we must have some defining thing or place.
                          What would it take to make the world take notice?
                          That's what has me a little concerned about the Edmonton Expo bid. Can such a generic (yet somehow still divisive) a theme as energy really captivate and inspire people?.

                          Just look at most of the supportive talk on the web even. Almost universally, the supporters are quite vocal about the positive impacts that the Fair could bring (increased exposure for Edmonton, possible LRT expansion, new Bridge, redevelopment opportunities, etc) but far less about the actual exhibit itself. Perhaps because it's so far in the future still and everything is quite vauge, but I've yet to hear someone say 'Wow! I can't wait to see the pavillion from country X or see the wonderful display of technology from company / university Y.'

                          I'm begining to believe that the Expo format is an anachronism from another tme. Does it still have relevance in todays world? Comparing the expo to Montreal 67, I'm starting to think the answer is no.

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                          • Mandel urges businesses to step up for Edmonton causes

                            Mandel urges businesses to step up for Edmonton causes
                            Pushes Expo 2017, developing airport lands, fighting homelessness
                            BY GORDON KENT, EDMONTONJOURNAL.COM NOVEMBER 15, 2010 5:03 PM

                            EDMONTON — Mayor Stephen Mandel called Monday for businesses to help Edmonton achieve its goals of hosting Expo 2017, fighting homelessness and developing the City Centre Airport.

                            He told an Edmonton Chamber of Commerce luncheon the city needs to hear more from companies about their roles in dealing with these key issues.

                            “As we work to frame an Expo bid, as we place structure around our vision for the airport lands, as we consider ways of re-energizing our core communities … we will need to hear more about the business role in these efforts,” Mandel said.

                            “I hope you will take up this challenge and look for more ways in which you can be involved as a partner with city council … we really need your help.”

                            Mandel also repeated his hope that the proposed five-per-cent hike in property taxes next year can be whittled down to three per cent.

                            But in the long term, council will have to bring escalating wage costs for city workers into line, deal with a growing bureaucracy and find a way for municipalities to receive a fairer share of the total Canadian tax dollar, he said.

                            Read more: http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/...#ixzz15OxApDOq

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                            • Feds overdue in throwing support behind Expo 2017 bid

                              Feds overdue in throwing support behind Expo 2017 bid
                              BY DAVID STAPLES, EDMONTONJOURNAL.COM NOVEMBER 19, 2010 6:41 AM

                              Alarm is growing in Edmonton that it's taking so long for Stephen Harper's government to get behind the city's bid for Expo 2017.

                              Local developer Randy Ferguson, who is on the Expo bid committee, expected to see federal backing by late September 2010. "I've worried ever since, and my worry has increased through the month of October, and now into November my worry has become alarm," he says. "I'm deeply alarmed."

                              Mayor Stephen Mandel and Premier Ed Stelmach this week called for the federal government to act. "There's a growing frustration in Alberta," Ferguson says, "and it's reflected in what you are hearing from of our leaders, because everyone knows the passage of time will weaken our chances of winning an Expo."

                              Ferguson now thinks Edmonton has less than a 50/50 chance of gaining federal approval. If Ferguson is right about those odds, that's as disappointing as it is unacceptable.

                              Read more: http://www.edmontonjournal.com/busin...#ixzz15kK8lX1m

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                              • http://www.lauriehawnmp.ca/contact.asp?menuID=104
                                Still waiting for the Arlington site to be reborn .......

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