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Is this the end of the Liberal Party?

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  • who said anything about g8?

    I was writing a list of reasons people should not vote for a party. The election was called not because of g8.

    The election was called because when the Conservative government introduced motions and bills to change law and order legislation, they purposely left out details about the cost to the government to introduce these measures. In effect, they had asked government to vote on incomplete information. A parliament is entitled to know the cost projections of any expenditure. By not releasing these projections, the conservatives broke the rules of parliament. The parliament made several requests for the cost of the legislation to be released. The conservative refused and thus, after an investigation of parliamentary committee, they were found in contempt of parliament which automatically triggered a non-confidence motion and defeated the government.

    These attempts to ignore the rules of parliament particularly when the involve full disclosure of government spending cannot be excused. By closing eyes on this, the 40% of canadians who voted conservative made a stupid and short sighted decision. They have created precedent whereby a governing party can breach all rules of parliament with no real consequence at the poll.

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    • ^In other words, the opposition parties wanted costing estimate information on the budget, and when it didn't arrive as quickly as they wanted, they threw a hissy fit and forced an election. This was a smart move for the NDP, but a dumb one for the Bloc and Liberal Party. The electorate, tired of the hissy fits, looked at the real issues (aside from Quebec which went through a mass orange psychosis), and 48% of them voted for the Conservative party.

      Glad we sorted that one out.

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      • Originally posted by grish View Post
        Jeff, for completeness, is it not true that a private citizen or a civil servant is not, in fact, a member of the party caucus?

        --------

        This is one of those "I know the answer and I also know that you know the answer" questions. But do play along for the general information of others.
        gee... that's a tough one - perhaps ralph60 could advise further... perhaps he could comment on the relevance of his taking the effort to, at length, include and detail those references to the 2 private citizens and 1 civil servant... none of whom were party caucus members. Just what was ralph60 up to?

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        • Originally posted by moahunter View Post
          ^In other words, the opposition parties wanted costing estimate information on the budget, and when it didn't arrive as quickly as they wanted, they threw a hissy fit and forced an election. This was a smart move for the NDP, but a dumb one for the Bloc and Liberal Party. The electorate, tired of the hissy fits, looked at the real issues (aside from Quebec which went through a mass orange psychosis), and 48% of them voted for the Conservative party.

          Glad we sorted that one out.
          Glad you get to make stuff up as you go. The conservatives tabled the motion separate from the budget and as such, it should have been costed alongside the legislation. Them are the rules ensuring appropriate and informed decisions are made. They knew the rules and decided to ignore them. Allowing parties in power to ignore rules is a stupid and a short sighted thing to do.

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          • I must admit that I don't care which party wins or lose but I can tell you that public is very concern about the status of economy in this country because we got hit with deep recession in 2008 but we made a recovery pretty well, but has a long way to get back the same way it was before recession hits everyone here. public don't seem to worry about political scandal much anymore because they all know there will always scandals for years to come.
            Edmonton Rocks Rocks Rocks

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            • I've always had a suspicion that the Liberals played right into a PC trap. The PC's knew how far ahead they were in the polls and how Canadians did not want another election, so they set up a 'minor' contempt charge that they knew wouldn't be a big election issue (which the Liberals should have made into a big issue).

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              • ^ agreed with the part that the liberals should have stuck to the message that this indeed is the big issue. The trouble with the Liberals, and actually returning to the main topic of this thread, is that their past would make it seem hypocritical. While that is not an excuse to the electorate–responsibility in the end lies with the individual to take note of abuses of authority–it does perhaps explain the elections outcome.

                The Liberals, in their attempt to rebuild, need to really make a clean break from anything in their past that could make them seem "same old". Also, they need to show much more discipline and set policy out of strong principles, rather than populism. People in the end do respect principles-based leadership.

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                • Originally posted by grish View Post
                  Also, they need to show much more discipline and set policy out of strong principles, rather than populism. People in the end do respect principles-based leadership.
                  I think part of the problem there is some of the principles of the last Liberal government aren't shared by the electorate anymore, with the Conservatives being closer. For example, the Conservatives are not as Federalist as the Liberal party. People in the West in particular don't want to be told by the Federal government in Ottawa how to run their provinces / daycare programs, gun registry, etc. It didn't used to matter so much becaue the Liberals could rely on Quebec votes.

                  But without that base anymore, they need to decide which direction they go. If they want to win votes in the West, they have to stop coming up with policy from the top down, and start accepting the empowerment of the Provinces. As has been noted by a few comentators, the GTA is also becoming more like the West with people not really wanting big government centralized programs anymore.

                  If they can overcome that centralist/federalist "father knows best" image hurdle which is holding them back, I think there is a place for the Liberal party. They can be a fiscal conservative alternative to the Conservative party, but more socially liberal. That would probably do quite well in Edmonton, BC and Ontario.
                  Last edited by moahunter; 12-05-2011, 04:37 PM.

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                  • NDP won 2nd at poll due to protest vote is not entirely true and I believe that Liberal party have choose the wrong leader is what led to its own downfall.
                    Edmonton Rocks Rocks Rocks

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