View Poll Results: Daylight savings time

Voters
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  • I like the new daylight time start and end dates

    15 21.74%
  • I prefer the old daylight time start and end dates

    11 15.94%
  • I like starting daylight time in mid-March, but it should end in October

    4 5.80%
  • I hate the time change, we should stay on daylight time (GMT-6) year round

    18 26.09%
  • I hate the time change, we should stay on standard time (GMT-7) year round

    21 30.43%
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Thread: Daylight savings time

  1. #1
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    Default Daylight savings time

    So now that we've entered our final extra week of daylight savings time this year, what does everyone think of the change? Personally, I like starting earlier in the spring but I think even the old late October return to standard time was too late.

    We're almost back to 12 hours of daylight by mid-March, so the spring time change has the sun rising at a respectable time of about 7:45 am. The analogous point in the fall is early October, not November. Delaying the return of standard time means another week of waking up when it's pitch black outside, and even going to work while it's still completely dark if your job starts early. We get enough of that in mid-winter, some light in the fall would be nice.

    It's also no coincidence that this poll was posted on Halloween. Every self-respecting 8 year old is well aware that vampires, ghosts, goblins and slasher movie characters don't come out till the sun goes down. When I was in elementary school, trick-or-treating before dark was for wusses and preschoolers. Now Halloween night starts an hour later, but somehow I don't think the kids curfews are going to change.

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  3. #3
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    I agree. As a bicycle commuter, my morning is getting dangerous, even with lights. The effect on halloween isn't good either.

  4. #4
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    Why don't we all (in North America) move our clocks back 30 minutes and leave them there?

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    I think having the extra week for Halloween is especially great and its safer for all those kids out there. Its dark by just before 7:00 so its perfect.

  6. #6
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    The giant Molson clock had apparently already switched to standard time. I was a bit confused when I noticed it this morning.

    Personally, I would prefer summer hours all year.

    I really don't like that the sun sets around "4:00" in the winter, and would really prefer "5:00" so that it's not absolutely pitchblack when I leave work.

    The flipside is that I don't see the benefit of having the sun rise at "9:00" instead of "10:00" because either way most people have already been up for a few hours.

  7. #7

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    The whole thing is just stupid. Keep to one time.
    Onward and upward

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    Quote Originally Posted by newfangled
    The giant Molson clock had apparently already switched to standard time. I was a bit confused when I noticed it this morning.

    Personally, I would prefer summer hours all year.

    I really don't like that the sun sets around "4:00" in the winter, and would really prefer "5:00" so that it's not absolutely pitchblack when I leave work.

    The flipside is that I don't see the benefit of having the sun rise at "9:00" instead of "10:00" because either way most people have already been up for a few hours.
    I agree with keeping all time here at UTC-6. The only time it be unusual is during the deep winter at sunrise, with it being at about 10:30 in the morning here. But, it'd only be for a couple of months.

  9. #9
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    I didn't even notice. It gets a big 'meh' from me. I couldn't care either way.
    LA today, Athens tomorrow. I miss E-town.

  10. #10
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    Because we are now blessed with artificial light and heat on demand we are no longer dependent on sunrise and sunset to bracket our waking hours. Our interprovincial and international commerce either ignores or is hampered by time zones and we have timepieces that can be accurate within seconds per decade. We have computer software that tracks transactions by the second and we have communications and entertainment networks that span the globe.

    So why do we insist on keeping a wartime economy measure layered on top of a 19th century anachronism (pun intended) that forces us to reset the clocks twice a year, requires that we reset our watches when traveling on business, that forces us to recalculate the time events start and manage with business hours in another time zone.

    It would be much easier to deal with one world-wide time zone and let local convention set business hours.

  11. #11
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    A single worldwide time is an interesting idea but there are good physiological reasons to be awake during the day and sleeping at night. Some people will always need to work night shifts but this should be kept to a minimum. Staggering day shifts more might be a good thing though as it would allow better utilization of transportation infrastructure rather than creating "rush hours" when large numbers of people are trying to get to work or get home. Ideally everyone would get to see the sun at least once a day during winter, either in the morning before work or in the afternoon after work.

    Time zones and daylight time are pretty minor compared to some of the oddities in timekeeping though. Why are there 24 hours in a day, 60 minutes in an hour and 60 seconds in a minute rather than 10, 100 or 1000? Why do we start the day at 12:00, count up to 12:59, reset back to 1:00, count up to 11:59, flip from am to pm, then continue counting up to 12:59, reset to 1:00 again, count up to 11:59, change days, then continue counting to 12:59 again? The complete sillyness of the 12 hour system made me set my watch and computer to 24 hour. At least then you start the day at 0:00, count up to 23:59, then reset at the moment the next day begins.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Titanium48
    A single worldwide time is an interesting idea but there are good physiological reasons to be awake during the day and sleeping at night. Some people will always need to work night shifts but this should be kept to a minimum. Staggering day shifts more might be a good thing though as it would allow better utilization of transportation infrastructure rather than creating "rush hours" when large numbers of people are trying to get to work or get home. Ideally everyone would get to see the sun at least once a day during winter, either in the morning before work or in the afternoon after work.
    Don't confuse time zone with work hours. If we were to accept GMT as the only time zone, Edmonton businesses that now open their doors at 9:00AM? and close at 6:00PM would open when the clock says 1600 and close at 0100, but the daylight and the sun is the same.

    The advantage is in knowing that similar daylight operating hours in Toronto would be 1400 to 2300 and Vancouver 1700 to 0200. Since we already deal with a variety of local operating hours, this would remove that extra layer of adding or subtracting hours to determine mutual open time.

    Anyone wanting to have more daylight time later in the day can arrange to simulate daylight savings time by arranging work hours to start earlier.

  13. #13
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    I wish that we had metric time. Once again though, the French have let me down.

    Luckily I can always count on the Simpsons:

    "Not only are the trains now running on time - they’re running on metric time! Remember this moment, people: 80 past 2 on April 47th."

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwells
    Don't confuse time zone with work hours.
    I understand what you mean. My opening line was responding to your statement that "we are no longer dependent on sunrise and sunset to bracket our waking hours".

    If we were to adopt a single world time it would be a perfect opportunity to get rid of 24/60/60 at the same time. People would have to adjust to daylight hours not being correlated with the same times of day around the world so time in its current format would lose much of its meaning. Set the fundamental unit of time so it is essentially equal to one solar day, then quote times in millidays. 00:00 UTC becomes 000.0, 07:12 UTC becomes 300.0, 14:30 UTC becomes 604.2, 23:59 UTC becomes 999.3 Need more precision? Add more decimal places. Midday in Edmonton would be 184.7. Early summer sunset would be around 540. The date change (at 000.0) would be around sunrise in the winter.

  15. #15
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    So, it's that time of year again. Opinions seem to be pretty evenly split on the issue. There is also another possibility I hadn't thought of when setting up the poll - the EU starts daylight time on the last sunday in March and ends the last sunday in October. These dates are between the old and new North American dates so perhaps North America could synchronize with Europe, providing a single time change date for the vast majority of the northern hemisphere.

  16. #16
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    Where's the option for "why do we even bother messing around with the clocks all the time?"

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by raz0469 View Post
    Where's the option for "why do we even bother messing around with the clocks all the time?"
    The last two options are precisely that.

  18. #18
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    wheres the option for "who cares" really is it that big a deal?
    the only downside is everyone at your workplaces always say something godawfully stupid and repetitive like "i thought you forgot to set your alarm" what am i an *****?

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by richardW View Post
    wheres the option for "who cares" really is it that big a deal?
    I guess it could be a big deal for people with medical devices.

    It's silly to twice a year reset devices that should not need resetting.

    Wall clock, wristwatch, video recorder, tv, alarm clock, answering machine, clock radio, stove timer, medical device, computer, C2E, car clock, data logger, microwave, thermostat, various other timers; what did you miss this time?

  20. #20
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    After another bright and sunny Halloween "night", followed by getting up in the dark the next day, I thought I might resurrect this one.

  21. #21

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    I hate changing back and forth.

    I do like the summer time better, though (better for the power bills).

  22. #22
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    I think daylight savings time is great, but I'd move the spring time to the last Sunday in March, rather than the second Sunday.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

  23. #23
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    ^ Yes, synchronizing with North America with Europe would probably be a good thing. It seems very strange to me that the current dates came from the USA, as south of about the 50th parallel the latest sunrise of the year is now the day before the time fall change, not late December like it should be.

  24. #24

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    ^IMO its essential to be in Sync with our big market, the U.S. I was talking to some folks in Saskatoon who told me its a nightmare there, as everyone is always confused when they set meetings with people in the US. I don't like the hours of daylight savings, but I don't think we have a choice but to be consistent.

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    i just read that Iceland has year round daylight savings, which is kinda weird cause wouldn't that be just regular time then?

  26. #26

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    They're still shifted an hour relative to local astronomical time, so the sun isn't highest at noon, but rather an hour off of noon.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  27. #27
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    When Australia sprung forward to daylight savings time peoples iphones messed up. Apple then sent out a patch which didn't work in the UK last week either when they switched from British Summer Time back to standard time.
    So the question is.... will your iphone adapt tonight when North America sets it clocks back?

  28. #28

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    Thank god I don't even own a cell phone, never mind one of those rotten newfangled iphones.

    *shakes cane*

  29. #29
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    my blackberry got no problem getting change to standard time
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  30. #30

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    and neither did my iphone.

  31. #31
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    I had to reboot my Android before going to bed last night.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  32. #32
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    My Android changed at 2 am with no problems.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    and neither did my iphone.
    Sounds like Apple got it right....Third time lucky...

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    Quote Originally Posted by darrellinyvr View Post
    When Australia sprung forward to daylight savings time peoples iphones messed up. Apple then sent out a patch which didn't work in the UK last week either when they switched from British Summer Time back to standard time.
    So the question is.... will your iphone adapt tonight when North America sets it clocks back?
    The phone changed time properly, but the alarm went off at 6am this morning even though I had it set for 5am. Weird. I woke up on my own around 5:30 wondering why it hadn't gone off, assuming I'd turned it off in my sleep (I do frequently). But then it went off at 6. Couldn't have been snooze, as snooze is only 10 minutes.

  35. #35
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    My iPhone 3G had absolutely no issues switching over

  36. #36
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    I hadn't hear of any major problems here in North America but BBCWorld news had quite a bit of it when they changed back the week before us. And as I said the Aussies when they switched forward were the ones who discovered the glitch.

  37. #37
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    ...So now they're telling us these newfangled thingamajigs can replace our old pocket watches and parlour clocks? Gee willikers, what will them there crazy boffins come up with next?

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by andy8244 View Post
    ...So now they're telling us these newfangled thingamajigs can replace our old pocket watches and parlour clocks? Gee willikers, what will them there crazy boffins come up with next?
    I'm having a hard time imagining you with a hillbilly accent... Scouse maybe....Brummie perhaps...... Banjo pickin backwoods Arkansas? Never.

    For the record I'll stick the the sundial in my backyard LOL. The birds love it!

  39. #39
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    Maybe Saskatchewan has the right idea, just stay on one time all year.
    ---
    Why Daylight Saving Time Is Pointless
    http://gizmodo.com/who-knows-its-pro...l-da-473201659

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by sundance View Post
    Maybe Saskatchewan has the right idea, just stay on one time all year.
    ---
    Why Daylight Saving Time Is Pointless
    http://gizmodo.com/who-knows-its-pro...l-da-473201659
    No argument here. It's a pointless exercise that causes more problems than the zero problems it solves.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

  41. #41
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    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

  42. #42
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    My kid was up at 5:20am this morning. I hate, hate, hate the time change. It's hard enough for adults, but toddlers... ugh!
    They're going to park their car over there. You're going to park your car over here. Get it?

  43. #43
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    ^ On the other hand, for the last couple of weeks my 4 year old has been complaining that "it's not waking time yet, the sky is asleep" when we get her up in the morning. She was happy to wake up at 7:15 this morning though. The spring time change is more of an issue - there is a few days of crabbiness while her bedtime is adjusted earlier.

    My opinion hasn't changed over the 7 years since I started this thread - I agree with the concept of daylight savings time, but the fall time change needs to be moved back to October, before Halloween. No daylight is "saved" (as in moved from normal sleeping hours to normal waking hours) in October, it is just dark in the morning instead dark in the evening.

  44. #44
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    I think most people would be happier with "spring forward" if it happened on a Friday afternoon
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  45. #45

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    This is somewhat interesting... Maybe with personal computerization, we no longer need time zones at all and the world could go back to solar local.

    BBC News - Why do mornings still get darker after the winter solstice?
    20 December 2014 Last updated at 19:22 ET

    Excerpt:
    "For those still unclear, it might help to immerse deeper into the history of timekeeping a lot closer to home, with the help of Professor Ian Morison of Gresham College, author of the recently published A Journey through the Universe.

    He explains in his work how for centuries the time was linked directly to the sun's passage across the sky, the time standard being called "local solar time", as indicated on a sundial. The time would thus vary across the UK, as noon is later in the west.

    "It's surprising the difference this makes," comments Morison. "In total, the UK stretches 9.55 degrees in longitude from Lowestoft in the east to Magheraboy in County Fermanagh, Northern Ireland, in the west. As 15 degrees is equivalent to one hour, this is a time difference of just over 38 minutes." ..."


    http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-30549149
    Last edited by KC; 21-12-2014 at 08:30 PM.

  46. #46
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    With GPS technology you could have watches that detect longitude however this would renew the problem which originated when trains started traveling east and west. Time zones were created because every town the train passed through had a slightly different time and it became a pain to adjust clocks to compensate.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_zone

    Then you'd have the additional problem of people that travel as a part of their job (long haul truck drivers, pilots, bus drivers, train engineers...) they would have to figure out an appropriate start time to arrive when they should.

    As well you have the problem of communication if I need to call someone in New York at a certain time, I have no real idea what time it would be there, it could vary +/- an hour depending on where the current time zone boundary is.

    But either eliminating day light savings or going on it permanently I do support.

    PS: One of the worst areas is China, the entire country has one time zone, so some people go to work at about 6AM solar time, others at 10AM solar time (China should have about 4 time zones).

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    I would go the other direction of still having time zones but having fewer. The biggest problem in the mass communication age is know when something is happening. Putting everyone on hyper local time would make that even worse. I like the two time zones for North America idea:

    http://qz.com/142199/the-us-needs-to...ne-hour-apart/

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  48. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Turnbull View Post
    I would go the other direction of still having time zones but having fewer. The biggest problem in the mass communication age is know when something is happening. Putting everyone on hyper local time would make that even worse. I like the two time zones for North America idea:

    http://qz.com/142199/the-us-needs-to...ne-hour-apart/
    I don't know. It's like newspapers. People used to count on their news coming the next day or days later but all at once via the paper. That's how production limitations drove society. Those limitation are gone now and news is continuous and we're doing quite well. Soon automatic language translation could further eliminate old conventions and barriers.

    If everything you needed, received or did was automatically converted into you're solar local time and the conversion time for your counterparty to any action also showed up, why would you need one time zone?

    It's like the old practice of gathering everyone in one physical location for a meeting - soon any advantages to that will be completely eliminated by new online meeting technologies.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by sundance View Post
    ...

    But either eliminating day light savings or going on it permanently I do support.

    PS: One of the worst areas is China, the entire country has one time zone, so some people go to work at about 6AM solar time, others at 10AM solar time (China should have about 4 time zones).
    The real problem in China isn't the number of time zones, but mandated synchronized work hours. Whatever system of timekeeping you prefer, it should allow as many people as possible to wake up as close to sunrise as possible for as much of the year as possible. People living further East should go to work earlier than people living further West, and people should go to work earlier in the summer than in the winter. Time zones are one way of accounting for longitude, and daylight time is one way of shifting everyone's work hours earlier in the summer and later in the winter.

    There are other ways of accomplishing this, and that is fine so long as it actually happens. I do NOT want to see those of us in the West being forced to go into work 2 hours before sunrise or people in Newfoundland stuck at work 2 hours after sunset just because that's when people want to go to work in Toronto. Asynchronous work hours are part of global commerce and industry needs to deal with that.

    If we keep daylight time, the time change needs to go back to October though. The latest sunrise of the year according to clocks here isn't January 2, it is the day before the time change. It is also silly to have an extra hour of evening daylight on Halloween.
    Last edited by Titanium48; 22-12-2014 at 12:29 PM.

  50. #50

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    I see that in the voting, I'm in the majority. We have hope.

    I always liked Daily Savings Time because I liked having an hour more light in the evenings because that's where I could enjoy it more than at say 5 or 6 am when I'm in the house getting ready for the day, so if I made a change it would be to keep DST all year round. Yeah I know, Titanium48, Halloween on the streets would suck, but hey, "trick or treating" is almost a dead activity for the new generations, as all the kids now hang out in the malls which long ago killed off all the spirit of the evening. So, keep DST going all year round!



    So, how would you have voted if this survey question had been framed simply as:

    Would you prefer an hour more or an hour less of evening daylight?



    ~
    Last edited by KC; 11-03-2015 at 10:40 AM.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    I see that in the voting, I'm in the majority. We have hope.

    I always liked Daily Savings Time because I liked having an hour more light in the evenings because that's where I could enjoy it more than at say 5 or 6 am when I'm in the house getting ready for the day, so if I made a change it would be to keep DST all year round. Yeah I know, Titanium48, Halloween on the streets would suck, but hey, "trick or treating" is almost a dead activity for the new generations, as all the kids now hang out in the malls which long ago killed off all the spirit of the evening. So, keep DST going all year round!



    So, how would you have voted if this survey question had been framed simply as:

    Would you prefer an hour more or an hour less of evening daylight?



    ~
    I would have suggested that in Alberta, given the hours of sunlight in the summer, most people are up after the sun rises and asleep before it sets so the question is moot.

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    Perhaps this should become an election issue. Where does your party stand on either permanently going on Daylight Savings or getting rid of it altogether.

    I think Alberta should just stay on it forever.

  53. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by Titanium48 View Post
    It is also silly to have an extra hour of evening daylight on Halloween.
    This year Halloween is on a Saturday, AND we get to set the clocks back an hour that night.

    It's going to be a great weekend for Halloween parties!

  54. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Turnbull View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    I see that in the voting, I'm in the majority. We have hope.

    I always liked Daily Savings Time because I liked having an hour more light in the evenings because that's where I could enjoy it more than at say 5 or 6 am when I'm in the house getting ready for the day, so if I made a change it would be to keep DST all year round. Yeah I know, Titanium48, Halloween on the streets would suck, but hey, "trick or treating" is almost a dead activity for the new generations, as all the kids now hang out in the malls which long ago killed off all the spirit of the evening. So, keep DST going all year round!



    So, how would you have voted if this survey question had been framed simply as:

    Would you prefer an hour more or an hour less of evening daylight?



    ~
    I would have suggested that in Alberta, given the hours of sunlight in the summer, most people are up after the sun rises and asleep before it sets so the question is moot.
    Just take a nice evening in mid to late August when it sure seems to get noticeably darker early in the evenings as is. Do away with DST and we'd really be in the dark.

  55. #55

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    I think everyone would be more supportive of Daylight Savings if we all put our clocks ahead at 3 pm on a Friday afternoon.

  56. #56

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    ^ except for the people that start work at 3pm on friday. Many shifts starts @ 3 pm. So do I come in for 2 or 4? or wtf.

  57. #57

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    If I were Prime Minister I'd make Daylight Savings begin at 3pm on Friday, AND outlaw all shifts starting at 3pm on Friday. Problem solved.

  58. #58
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    I don't know what's more tiring - DST spring forward itself, or the mass whinefest over it every year.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Turnbull View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    I see that in the voting, I'm in the majority. We have hope.

    I always liked Daily Savings Time because I liked having an hour more light in the evenings because that's where I could enjoy it more than at say 5 or 6 am when I'm in the house getting ready for the day, so if I made a change it would be to keep DST all year round. Yeah I know, Titanium48, Halloween on the streets would suck, but hey, "trick or treating" is almost a dead activity for the new generations, as all the kids now hang out in the malls which long ago killed off all the spirit of the evening. So, keep DST going all year round!



    So, how would you have voted if this survey question had been framed simply as:

    Would you prefer an hour more or an hour less of evening daylight?



    ~
    I would have suggested that in Alberta, given the hours of sunlight in the summer, most people are up after the sun rises and asleep before it sets so the question is moot.
    Just take a nice evening in mid to late August when it sure seems to get noticeably darker early in the evenings as is. Do away with DST and we'd really be in the dark.
    And yet still with a later sunset than Arizona. Complaining about when the sun sets in the summer this far north is probably very amusing to everyone south of us.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

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    Personally, given the ample evidence of the costs associated with it I'm all in favour of getting rid of it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=br0NW9ufUUw

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

  61. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Turnbull View Post
    Personally, given the ample evidence of the costs associated with it I'm all in favour of getting rid of it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=br0NW9ufUUw
    That's great!

    The "mortal danger" is from the changing of the clocks. Leave it in place all year round. For example, right now I love the increased evening light - was outside with my daughter after supper playing badminton on the deck last night. Bad aging eyesight and all, I held my own. But try to see a birdie in the dusk against a 9 yr old! I'd have been slaughtered!

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    Even John C. Dvorak (grouchy computer pundit) wants to get rid of it
    http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2478023,00.asp

  63. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by sundance View Post
    Even John C. Dvorak (grouchy computer pundit) wants to get rid of it
    http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2478023,00.asp
    Yeah, and all months should be equal too but they ain't. I used to do financial calculations that included leap years - because it was easy to do. You'd be surprised at how often leap years are excluded from calculations that otherwise require some stupid degree of precision.

  64. #64

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    Daylight savings is just unnecessary...simple as that.
    Onward and upward

  65. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by RichardS View Post
    Daylight savings is just unnecessary...simple as that.
    So are many things of the things we have in life. So what would you prefer; more or less daylight in the evenings. That should be a simple choice too.


    It all seems pretty arbitrary anyway. Not much written about the history of the choices that I can find.



    Daylight saving time in Canada
    ...

    "History
    Six Canadian cities, by local ordinance, used Daylight Saving Time before 1918: Brandon, Manitoba and Winnipeg, Manitoba (already in 1916)[2] as well as Halifax, Nova Scotia, Hamilton, Ontario, Montreal, Quebec, St. John's, Newfoundland and Labrador.[2]

    In practice, since the late 1960s DST across Canada has been closely or completely synchronized with its observance in the United States to promote consistent economic and social interaction. When the United States extended DST in 1987 to the first Sunday in April, all DST-observing Canadian provinces followed suit to mimic the change. ..."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dayligh...time_in_Canada

    Time in Canada

    Time in Canada is divided into six time zones, based on proposals by Scottish Canadian railway engineer Sir Sandford Fleming, who helped pioneer the world's time zone system.[1]

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_in_Canada

    Sandford Fleming


    "Inventor of worldwide standard time

    After missing a train in 1876 in Ireland because its printed schedule listed p.m. instead of a.m., he proposed a single 24-hour clock for the entire world, located at the centre of the Earth and not linked to any surface meridian.[8] At a meeting of the Royal Canadian Institute on February 8, 1879 he linked it to the anti-meridian of Greenwich (now 180°). He suggested that standard time zones could be used locally, but they were subordinate to his single world time, which he called Cosmic Time. He continued to promote his system at major international conferences[9] including the International Meridian Conference of 1884. That conference accepted a different version of Universal Time, but refused to accept his zones, stating that they were a local issue outside its purview. Nevertheless, by 1929 all of the major countries of the world had accepted time zones."


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandford_Fleming
    Last edited by KC; 12-03-2015 at 04:21 PM.

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    In the summer, quite honestly, I would like a little less sunlight. More time for a backyard fire under the stars.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

  67. #67

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    ...and what if you are a morning person KC?

    It shouldn't matter...so why go through the exercise?????
    Onward and upward

  68. #68

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    I could live with Daylight Savings Time's evening light shift 24/7.

    I'm not a morning person. Most days when I worked in an office I'd get up leaving enough time to eat, s___, shower, and shave, deal with family / school issues, and shovel the sidewalk if needed, time permitting. At that point getting to work consumed the rest of the time. I'd rather do that in the dark and enjoy more light for my evening leisure time.

    However, I often do get up on the weekends fairly early but I rarely get up to immediately go outside, especially in the fall and winter. I'll read the news or post to c2e or something.

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    Great illustration of the madness and supports KC's position as long as you don't mind sunrise always being after 7am a lot of the time.

    The awfulness of daylight saving time, mapped





    The original piece is interesting as it has some interactive maps and good graphs illustrating the methodology:

    Where to hate daylight saving time and where to love it

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

  70. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Turnbull View Post
    Great illustration of the madness and supports KC's position as long as you don't mind sunrise always being after 7am a lot of the time.

    The awfulness of daylight saving time, mapped





    The original piece is interesting as it has some interactive maps and good graphs illustrating the methodology:

    Where to hate daylight saving time and where to love it
    In a sense, just like those that retire to warmer climates which offer improved odds of warmth, I prefer the guarantee of reasonable sunsets and light for my evening leisure and enjoyment.

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    I would actually like to see the maps for up here. On thing that happens in the summer, when we're on DST is that sunrise and sunset are so early and late the time change means sunset is far too late to even see it. In those time periods I'd prefer standard time.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

  72. #72

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    Needs to be killed with fire.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    Needs to be killed with fire.
    ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    Needs to be killed with fire.
    This, please, good god.
    www.decl.org

    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

  75. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    Needs to be killed with fire.
    This, please, good god.
    You mean DST or the talk of doing away with it? I'd like to do away with the twice a year changing of the time and just leave the current time in place year round. Or get the world to start at 7 am and not 8 am and give us more evening sunlight that way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Or get the world to start at 7 am and not 8 am and give us more evening sunlight that way.
    That is literally what DST is. We alter our behaviour to "start the world" an hour earlier.

  77. #77

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaerdo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Or get the world to start at 7 am and not 8 am and give us more evening sunlight that way.
    That is literally what DST is. We alter our behaviour to "start the world" an hour earlier.
    Yes. Think of the productivity improvements! ...and all the extra spending that occurs as a result. It must have been a right-wing conspiracy behind it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    In a sense, just like those that retire to warmer climates which offer improved odds of warmth, I prefer the guarantee of reasonable sunsets and light for my evening leisure and enjoyment.
    At our latitude, winter evenings are going to be dark regardless. The worst part of the sun going south in winter for me is having my alarm go off while it is still dark outside. I'm also not a big fan of having the sun wake me up at 4:00 am in the summer. Adjusting work hours to minimize those things makes sense to me, and I like the sharper cutoff that is created between the season of dark evenings and the season of light evenings.

    The problem is that we now have "daylight savings time" when there is no daylight left to save. Who wants an extra hour of evening daylight on Halloween (a festival of all things dark) when that results in the sun not rising until 8:30 am? For most eastern Canadians and all of the USA except Alaska the latest sunrise of the year is not in late December, but the day before the fall time change. The spring time change isn't as bad, but it still prematurely pushes darkness back into the morning.

  79. #79

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    I heard reference to this, this morning from some expert. He said there is not much likely financial gain anymore in the time shift. It's all arbitrary anyway, so it got me wondering why we even see a need for am and pet and time zones. Why not just put everyone on a global 24 hour clock.


    How the BBQ and golf lobbyists changed daylight savings time in the U.S.
    AGENCE FRANCE-PRESSE
    28 MAR 2013 AT 14:32 ET


    "...
    “For the golf industry, one more month of daylight savings meant $400 million more in green fees and equipment sales,” he said, adding “and that was the industry estimate 25 years ago.”

    The spring change was moved to early April, which, for many years, put the US in line with its European counterparts.

    But in 2005, the time change was bumped up a second time: springing forward to the second Sunday in March and falling back the first Sunday in November.

    This added three weeks of daylight savings in the spring, and an extra week in the fall.

    Chambers of commerce and big supermarket chains helped pressure Congress into making the change, hoping an additional hour of light at the end of the day would encourage Americans to stop by stores on the way home after work.

    ...




    http://www.rawstory.com/2013/03/how-...me-in-the-u-s/

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    The confectionery industry meanwhile can take credit for that additional week in the autumn, explained Downing, who teaches creative writing at Tufts University in Boston.

    “The candy-makers have long wanted to have Halloween’s trick-or-treat covered by daylight savings, for the children to be able to collect more candy,” he said.
    http://www.rawstory.com/2013/03/how-...me-in-the-u-s/

    That makes no sense whatsoever. Trick-or-treating has always happened in the dark. Delaying the sunset does not change the kids bedtimes. It just makes the little ghosts and vampires look silly, and if anything it might reduce the time they spend collecting candy as they now start later.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    I don't know what's more tiring - DST spring forward itself, or the mass whinefest over it every year.
    The biannual time changing is at worst a minor inconvenience for me, I still get my sleep. The horror stories and hysteria over daylight savings time on here, in social media and in mainstream media is getting rather absurd. How on earth do people survive having to jump 1-2 hours ahead or behind when they travel across the continent? Oh the horror they must endure! This is just another symptom that we are living in a society full of over-pampered crybabies.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  82. #82

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    And complainers get to feel superior to the whiners. Something for everyone!
    I feel in no way entitled to your opinion...

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    sorry could not resist

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    I don't know what's more tiring - DST spring forward itself, or the mass whinefest over it every year.
    The biannual time changing is at worst a minor inconvenience for me, I still get my sleep. The horror stories and hysteria over daylight savings time on here, in social media and in mainstream media is getting rather absurd. How on earth do people survive having to jump 1-2 hours ahead or behind when they travel across the continent? Oh the horror they must endure! This is just another symptom that we are living in a society full of over-pampered crybabies.
    I didn't understand the outrage over the time change until I had a kid. It's probably a full 2 weeks before his schedule returns back to normal, which means less sleep for me.
    They're going to park their car over there. You're going to park your car over here. Get it?

  85. #85

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gord Lacey View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    I don't know what's more tiring - DST spring forward itself, or the mass whinefest over it every year.
    The biannual time changing is at worst a minor inconvenience for me, I still get my sleep. The horror stories and hysteria over daylight savings time on here, in social media and in mainstream media is getting rather absurd. How on earth do people survive having to jump 1-2 hours ahead or behind when they travel across the continent? Oh the horror they must endure! This is just another symptom that we are living in a society full of over-pampered crybabies.
    I didn't understand the outrage over the time change until I had a kid. It's probably a full 2 weeks before his schedule returns back to normal, which means less sleep for me.
    I like the light in the evenings, so I'd just leave it in place year round. If not, then no big deal dumping it. As I said, we could dump times zones too which are much like DST. No big deal living without those too.

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    I like the light in the mornings, I say we leave it aligned with the sun.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

  87. #87

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Turnbull View Post
    I like the light in the mornings, I say we leave it aligned with the sun.
    Maybe add more times zones.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Turnbull View Post
    I like the light in the mornings, I say we leave it aligned with the sun.
    Reason I like Daylight Savings Time is that the light in the mornings is largely wasted for much of the summer. I personally value the additional hour of evening light more. Without DST, sunrise would be around 4 am (instead of 5 am) during the summer solstice, and the sun would set one hour earlier just after 9 pm.

    Link: https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/canada/edmonton?month=6

    Switching back to standard time around this time of year also makes sense because the limited amount of daylight better corresponds to most people's work schedule, and more importantly, children's school schedules.

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    Why is it wasted and why is longer daylight into the night better? Personally I would appreciate an earlier sunset in the summer as it's the season of campfires. And there are many people who are up early in the morning either for work just because they're morning people, who would likely enjoy a few months where they're not getting up in the dark.

    Standard time, based as it is around solar noon and midnight, is balanced so morning people and evening people each get a share.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

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    DST is a mixed blessing for me, love it in the summer when our days are so long. But as someone who suffers from SAD (seasonal affective disorder) it seems to magnify the effects in the month of November, making it the worst month for me from a mental standpoint. The sun lamp helps but I can never completely rid the sense of ennui and listlessness that comes with the time change and shorter days. A day like today when it is heavily overcast and rainy is just the worst.

    Guess I should really be taking a vacation to a sunny destination now rather than waiting until January and February.
    Last edited by norwoodguy; 06-11-2016 at 01:02 PM.
    Did my dog just fall into a pothole???

  91. #91

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    Quote Originally Posted by norwoodguy View Post
    DST is a mixed blessing for me, love it in the summer when our days are so long. But as someone who suffers from SAD (seasonal affective disorder) it seems to magnify the effects in the month of November, making it the worst month for me from a mental standpoint. The sun lamp helps but I can never completely rid the sense of ennui and listlessness that comes with the time change and shorter days. A day like today when it is heavily overcast and rainy is just the worst.

    Guess I should really be taking a vacation to a sunny destination now rather than waiting until January and February.
    transitions are tough

    The transition from daylight saving time to standard time leads to depressions
    Date: October 27, 2016
    Source: Aarhus University

    "We probably benefit less from the daylight in the morning between seven and eight, because many of us are either in the shower, eating breakfast or sitting in a car or bus on the way to work or school. When we get home and have spare time in the afternoon, it is already dark," explains Søren D. Østergaard.

    "Furthermore, the transition to standard time is likely to be associated with a negative psychological effect as it very clearly marks the coming of a period of long, dark and cold days," says Søren D. Østergaard.

    https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...1027115706.htm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Turnbull View Post
    Why is it wasted and why is longer daylight into the night better?
    It's wasted because I'm never up at 4 am except in the very rare instance like having to catch an early morning flight. Whereas I'm always up after 9 pm to enjoy the extra hour of day length to do many things (late evening bike rides, tending my garden, doing outside chores, etc).

    Other than night shift workers, most morning people are not disadvantaged by a sunrise that begins at 5 am rather than 4 am.

    The switch back to standard time used to take place in the third Sunday of October instead of the first Sunday of November. While I'm okay with how it used to be, my understanding is one of the reasons for changing it was to provide an extra hour of daylight on Halloween for children trick or treating.

  93. #93

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Turnbull View Post
    Why is it wasted and why is longer daylight into the night better? Personally I would appreciate an earlier sunset in the summer as it's the season of campfires. And there are many people who are up early in the morning either for work just because they're morning people, who would likely enjoy a few months where they're not getting up in the dark.

    Standard time, based as it is around solar noon and midnight, is balanced so morning people and evening people each get a share.
    I agree in general but also if you look at a time zone map, many time zone boundaries are far out of the 15 degrees of longitude of solar noon and midnight. Within one time zone, there can be more than 30 degrees of longitude, a two hour difference of high noon, for example. This is done for political and business reasons, often along borders, geographic conditions or economic regions.

    None of this is perfect and daylight savings time is onlt one more part of it. Getting rid of it like they do in Saskatchewan really does not change anything. Better for some and worse for others.

    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  94. #94

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Turnbull View Post
    Why is it wasted and why is longer daylight into the night better? Personally I would appreciate an earlier sunset in the summer as it's the season of campfires. And there are many people who are up early in the morning either for work just because they're morning people, who would likely enjoy a few months where they're not getting up in the dark.

    Standard time, based as it is around solar noon and midnight, is balanced so morning people and evening people each get a share.
    I agree in general but also if you look at a time zone map, many time zone boundaries are far out of the 15 degrees of longitude of solar noon and midnight. Within one time zone, there can be more than 30 degrees of longitude, a two hour difference of high noon, for example. This is done for political and business reasons, often along borders, geographic conditions or economic regions.

    None of this is perfect and daylight savings time is onlt one more part of it. Getting rid of it like they do in Saskatchewan really does not change anything. Better for some and worse for others.


    Forget Trump Towers, Trump whatever. If he can sell his name, assuredly we could sell our time. So let's export our mountain standard time to the rest of Canada!!! Maybe we can brand it as being good clean healthy wholesome good living... We'll sell it to them cheap, no pipelines required.

  95. #95

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    Mountain-Fresh Standard Time!
    I feel in no way entitled to your opinion...

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    Quote Originally Posted by East McCauley View Post
    The switch back to standard time used to take place in the third Sunday of October instead of the first Sunday of November. While I'm okay with how it used to be, my understanding is one of the reasons for changing it was to provide an extra hour of daylight on Halloween for children trick or treating.
    That's backwards. As a kid, sunset was always my cue that it was time to go out and collect some candy, and nobody ever decided to go home because it was getting too dark. Moving the time change into November has totally messed that up, for very little benefit as even someone who doesn't have to be at work until 9:00 am needs to wake up before sunrise for an extra week.

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    Just to suit myself, you understand, I should do this time change thing on a daily basis. I can then get lighter mornings and longer evenings.
    Nisi Dominus Frustra

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    Something even the conservatives can get behind!

    Alberta NDP looking at abolishing Daylight Saving Time

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

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    In the U. S. It could be American Standard Time!
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

  100. #100

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Turnbull View Post
    Something even the conservatives can get behind!

    Alberta NDP looking at abolishing Daylight Saving Time
    I want DST all year round - not canceled.

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