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Thread: ScootScoop Edmonton: Free Removal of Abandoned eScooters

  1. #1
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    Default ScootScoop Edmonton: Free Removal of Abandoned eScooters

    Now that the scourge of eScooters has descended upon Edmonton city sidewalks,
    it is good to know that help is at hand for managers of businesses, residential
    buildings and private properties.

    Much like towing companies which are contracted to patrol designated areas and
    respond to requests to haul away vehicles parked in unauthorized spots by
    scofflaw motorists, ScootScoop gathers up eScooters abandoned by the indifferent
    customers of eScooter rental firms.

    Ever vigilant, Mayor iVision and his minions have approved eScooter rental locations
    within feet of facilities like Garneau Hall, a seniors residence on the south side of
    Whyte Ave, just west of 109th St.

    Each day, residents of Garneau Hall with vision and mobility impairments leave their
    building utilizing their canes, walkers and mobility scooters to make their way to
    local shops, Doctor's offices, social outings with friends and other activities. At
    least, eScooters in their path will be awkward obstacles to surmount, at worst,
    those eScooters will pose life altering/ending threats to the well-being of the
    Garneau Hall seniors community.

    Well done, Don iVision !

    To the manager of Garneau Hall and to concerned citizens who might happen to
    notice eScooter hazards faced by seniors, I say "Take action. Call ScootScoop
    or any of the other entrepreneurial upstarts that offer a similar service and get
    those eScooters out of the way.

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    Well, a timely article today in the EJ

    .
    E-scooters launch in Edmonton
    By Anna Junker
    Edmonton Journal 2019.08.16

    "According to the city, the e-scooters, which can travel up to 20 km/h, can be used in bike lanes, paved shared-use pathways and roads with a posted limit of 50km/h or less. They will not be allowed on sidewalks and only on trails maintained by the city.

    Users can park electric scooters on sidewalks, parking lanes (except E-Park zones), at transit centres, rec centres and on parkland.

    The city says to park the e-scooter in a way that does not block doors or travel for people walking, biking or driving. They should be in an upright position using the kickstand. E-scooters parked on a sidewalk should be at least half a metre from a curb, with about a two-metre clearance for people to walk along the sidewalk.

    In parks, the scooter should be parked more than a metre from a shared pathway or trail. At community and recreation facilities, they should be parked near existing bike racks.

    The e-scooters are not allowed to be left on LRT platforms."

    Uhhh ...
    "... park the e-scooter in a way that does not block doors or travel for people walking, biking or driving."

    "They will not be allowed on sidewalks"

    Ahhhhahahahahahahahahahah !

    Verrryyy FUNNNYYYY, CoE.

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    " ... and roads with a posted limit of 50km/h or less."

    .

    Wait for it... Drunk/high morons riding eScooters on Whyte, along 109th, Jasper.

    No helmet, no visibility, no sense of self-preservation.

    Hmmm, what could go wrong ?

    Cue Komrad exhorting us to stop blaming victims for the outcomes of their
    own misadventure. (Well, that and the utter lack of foresight/oversight by
    city administrators.)

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    I'd have maybe said < 30km/h
    www.decl.org

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  5. #5

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    Maybe these guys will open here: https://www.scootscoop.com
    I am in no way entitled to your opinion...

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    Ewwww ...

    There'll be no junk-in-the-trunk for eScooter riders if iVision signs off again on "Naked Bike Ride 2020"

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    I'd have maybe said < 30km/h
    Ohh, nooo.

    Car-hating CoE administrators reason that since eScooters are governed to 20 kph,
    then letting them run amok amongst cement trucks, jacked-up pickup trucks, vans,
    SUV's, ETS buses and whatever else might trundle along at 50 kph makes perfect sense.

  8. #8

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    Ohh look, the alternative transportation hating guy is here. Couldn't be bothered to use an existing thread on this cause, gotta make sure my soapbox rant is heard. How dare anything with less than 4 wheels be allowed to use the sidewalk, trails, or roads!

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    For amusement, search out media stories by the Calgary Herald, CBC and others
    describing that city's experience with eScooters.

    First one is free
    .
    Calgarians wheel into hospitals by the dozen with injuries from new e-scooters
    CBC News 2019.07.26

    "Calgary emergency rooms have seen 60 patients with e-scooter-related injuries so far.

    About a third of them were fractures and roughly 10 per cent were injuries to the face
    and head.

    The number of hospital visits has triggered a new study by the University of Calgary.
    Researchers hope to find out how dangerous it is to scoot."

    Noteworthy is Calgary's prohibition from riding eScooters on roads.
    .
    "Users can ride only on sidewalks, pathways and in bike lanes. It is illegal to ride these
    single-user devices on city roads. "

    See ! It is TRUE, Calgary's administrators ARE smarter than Edmonton's ...
    Last edited by mseaver; 16-08-2019 at 01:20 PM.

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    Back to the thread topic - abandoned eScooters.

    If designated dumpsters are made available at strategic locations, citizens
    would be empowered to relocate eScooters found laying about to the nearest
    dumpster that still had sufficient capacity.

  11. #11

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    https://boingboing.net/2018/12/08/flipping-a-bird.html

    Time to order up a replacement motherboard. I've already got the security bits.

    E: Haha, guess not. Private e-scooters aren't permitted. Can only use rideshare ones. I guess this isn't so much about new transportation modes, just about creating & preserving business models.
    Last edited by noodle; 16-08-2019 at 02:03 PM.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

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    In BC e-scooters are not allowed on roads.

    Not permitted on roads:
    Scooter, motorized skateboard or self-balancing board
    • May only be operated where B.C.’s Motor Vehicle Act
    doesn’t apply, such as private property that does not
    have public vehicle access or on a trail or
    pathway if allowed by a municipal bylaw.
    • Not to be operated on a public sidewalk
    adjacent to a roadway.

    In Edmonton, does local approval override the Alberta Highway Act.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    In BC e-scooters are not allowed on roads.

    In Edmonton, does local approval override the Alberta Highway Act.
    Read the full EJ article linked above. All (well, more) will be revealed.

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    I think the scooters could have GPS locators. That way, trips could also be tracked to determine where they are being used.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Cat View Post
    I think the scooters could have GPS locators. That way, trips could also be tracked to determine where they are being used.
    Payment is through a phone app.

    Don''t be surprised if you learn that the app tracks you through your phone location.

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    Already BIRD eScooters are flouting the City's rules, er, "recommendations"
    .
    "E-scooters parked on a sidewalk should be at least a half-metre from a curb,
    with about a two-metre clearance for people to walk along the sidewalk."

    David Bloom's photo accompanying Anna Junker's article in the EJ today shows three
    BIRD eScooters inches from the edge of the curb on the west side of 109th St, north
    of Jasper, across from Capital Center. The same situation existed this morning on the
    south side of Whyte, west of 109th beside Garneau Hall Seniors Complex.

    CoE eTards.

    What I want to know is why I wasn't allowed to operate my privately-owned Segway
    with the same impunity extended to venture-cap-backed entities like LIME and BIRD.

    Follow the money.

  17. #17

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    I highly doubt that anyone is operating their e-scooter within the laws on any given journey.

    First person injured by a car on a city roadway and watch the clamour.
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 16-08-2019 at 08:07 PM.
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    How many people are going to be severely injured or killed before someone on council sees these rules as a joke. They’re ridiculous. I will sue the city for the psychological trauma of running someone over when it happens. I am a pretty good driver and I find driving in edmonton difficult and frustrating with the outright disrespect of common rules of the road by Edmonton drivers compared to drivers in a lot of much busier and congested cities. This is just another hazard that will make the roads even more dangerous. Not impressed At all.

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    If an e-scooter violates traffic laws, write them up.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

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    Can't write up dead people.
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    I take it that the omnipotent Iveson who giveth can also taketh away? Hey God-eson, shaketh thy fricken head.
    Nisi Dominus Frustra

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    But WAIT, there's MORE ...
    .
    While commercial eScooters are nominally governed to a maximum speed of 20-25 kph/ 12-16 mph,
    consumer eScooters capable of speeds of 80 kph / 50 mph are readily available and cost less
    than a moderately well-spec'd pedal bicycle would set you back at one of Edmonton's boutique
    bike shops.

    While such machines feature hydraulic brakes, unlike the more prosaic "Fred Flintstone" era
    configurations common on the rental eScooters, the brake discs on the performance machines
    resemble hard drive platters - no circumference, no thickness. The tires still resemble Tim's
    double chocolate donuts in size. Sure there is "Suspension" - perhaps 1 CM effective travel
    at each end; nothing in comparison to the 15-17 CM travel of your typical SUV which STILL
    bottoms out at each pothole common to YEG's LRT-Cash-Starved roadways.

    No meaningful lighting or signalling, pathetic horn, no helmet or other PPE required.

    Operator training requirement ? Ahhhhahahahahahahahah .....
    Last edited by mseaver; 17-08-2019 at 09:39 AM.

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    Maybe we should outlaw skateboards too. I think it would be wise to encourage helmets when riding these e-scooters.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Cat View Post
    I think it would be wise to encourage helmets when riding these e-scooters.
    "Encourage helmets" ???

    Have you NEVER taken a spin on your nephew's push-powered Razor ?

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    Compare eScooters to small motorcycles like the Honda GROM and the Kawasaki Z125
    which retail for prices that are not that different than mid-high end eScooters.

    The GROM and Z125 have REAL tires, REAL brakes, REAL suspension, REAL lights & signals.

    With a similar footprint and performance that lines up along with the better consumer
    eScooters, the regulatory requirements are altogether different - ie: vastly more sensible.

    Operator license required - CHECK
    Insurance required - CHECK
    Registration required - CHECK
    Vehicle license plate - CHECK
    Helmet required - CHECK
    .
    Parking allowed on sidewalk - NYET

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    Ya know, there was a reason why our forefathers chose to keep the Highway Traffic Act
    within the purview of Provincial Regulatory oversight.

    Adults at the table and all that ..

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    From the Insurance Industry Institute, a US-based industry association founded in 1959 according to WikiPedia
    .
    Spotlight on: e-Scooters and Insurance
    Insurance Industry Institute 2019.02

    "Whether a user’s personal insurance would cover any third-party liability arising out of an accident they caused or contributed to depends on the specific terms and conditions of their policies.

    Homeowners: A standard homeowners policy will typically exclude liabilities arising out of the use of a motor vehicle, usually defined as any self-propelled vehicle. Homeowners policies also exclude any liability arising out of a motor vehicle rented to an insured. Renters insurance will also not cover vehicle-related liability.

    Personal auto: A standard personal auto policy excludes liability coverage for a vehicle with fewer than four wheels – including e-scooters. Motorcycle insurance may not cover scooters that require users to stand.

    Personal liability umbrella: Personal liability umbrella policies (PLUP) offer an extra layer of protection when an insured exhausts the limits of their underlying homeowners or auto policy. Such policies can also provide coverage for perils that are excluded from the underlying insurance policies. For example, unlike an auto policy, a standard PLUP does not usually exclude vehicles with fewer than four wheels and therefore may provide some coverage for e-scooter liabilities.

    The article also features findings of hospital research into the frequency and nature of injuries arising from eScooter use.

    In part
    .
    "A 2019 JAMA Network Open study examined records in two emergency rooms in Southern California for injuries associated with e-scooter use between September 1, 2017 and August 31, 2018. The study found in part that the most common injuries were bone fractures (32 percent), head injuries (40 percent) and soft-tissue injuries (28 percent). Only 4 percent of those injured were wearing a helmet at the time of injury."
    Last edited by mseaver; 17-08-2019 at 11:24 AM.

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    From Consumer Reports
    .
    E-Scooter Ride-Share Industry Leaves Injuries and Angered Cities in its Path
    By Ryan Felton
    Consumer Reports 2019.02.05

    "As he set out, Grasso noticed construction ahead and steered from the side of the street up onto the sidewalk. As he maneuvered, the scooter hit a bump, and he crashed head-first into the ground. “The whole unit just flipped forward and smashed my face into the cement walkway,” he said.

    The 50-year-old spent the next four days in a hospital as he recovered from head injuries.

    Grasso’s story is far from isolated. He’s one of an estimated 1,500 people across the country injured in an e-scooter-related crash since late 2017, according to a Consumer Reports spot tally from major hospitals and other public agencies, such as police departments, we contacted in recent weeks."

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    Mseaver, you don't have to press return every time your text hits the other side of your screen.
    Edmonton first, everything else second.

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    Thank you. It's a remnant of the days when I was at 1024 x 768
    and everyone else was still stuck at 640 x 480. Perhaps before
    your time ?

    Anything to say about eScooters ?
    Last edited by mseaver; 17-08-2019 at 12:19 PM.

  31. #31

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    I'm old and remember using monitors with resolutions you mentioned above, hitting the return button is not necessary. Anyways, I am looking forward to trying those scooters out!
    Edmonton first, everything else second.

  32. #32

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    I remember binary tape and punch cards.

    What's a monitor?
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    Quote Originally Posted by mseaver View Post
    Thank you. It's a remnant of the days when I was at 1024 x 768
    and everyone else was still stuck at 640 x 480. Perhaps before
    your time ?

    Anything to say about eScooters ?
    I always hate it when two keys on the Remington get stuck together. Or the ribbon stops advancing.

  34. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    I remember binary tape and punch cards.

    What's a monitor?
    I programmed using punch cards. Still have a high stack of cards somewhere that may have added 0 and 1 together. That’s in the days when no one, but a few odd ball kids, took computing. There were only 8 kids in my high school computing class. I bet interest has gone full circle back to those numbers. Does anyone take computing anymore - or even use a monitor?

    And I still recall (sort of) from my Computing Science days days driving home from the UofA in the early morning and everything being coloured yellow (or green?) from staring at the old screens way too long.
    Last edited by KC; 17-08-2019 at 05:26 PM.

  35. #35

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    My friends all took typing in high school. I didn't because i believed at that time, in a few years we would all be using computers.

    Who knew that nearly 40 years later, I still would be typing with two fingers...
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    OK, what is the differentiation of electric scooters?

    I have seen the term applied to a wide variety of types. These are all marketed as electric scooters. There is a huge difference in size, speed, power, seat/no-seat, 2 wheel/3 wheel/4 wheel, inline/single-axle

    Which are allowed, which have the 20kph speed limit, which require a licence etc???

    What is the LEGAL definition that will withstand a court case if a police officer gives you a ticket for having a 'wrong' type?









    As you can see, there is a HUGE grey area.
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 17-08-2019 at 07:34 PM.
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    I was walking around Whyte and downtown today and saw a ton of the scooters being used. Didn't see any that were being used inappropriately, but I did notice more than a few that were parked/dumped in less-than-courteous manners. I moved one of them that would be blocking the sidewalk for something in a wheelchair, or pushing a stroller, but still had enough room to get past for someone who is able-bodied. Most of the people I saw using them were young (only a couple of people that looked over 30 to me, everyone else was under 30).

    I'm interested to see how they'll be used by people, and whether they'll just be a mess on the sidewalks.
    They're going to park their car over there. You're going to park your car over here. Get it?

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    Early days, yet. If these things take off then there'll be a mess on sidewalks no doubt, and the City will have to revise the rules at some point. Still, snow and ice and oatmeal will put a serious dent in their use.
    Nisi Dominus Frustra

  39. #39

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    As will -25°C

    Gotta get the block heater option...
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 17-08-2019 at 09:38 PM.
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    So far I’ve seen a lot of people riding them on the sidewalks and generally they’ve been parked out of the way from where I’ve seen them abandoned so far.

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    Does anyone have any idea what they pay to pickup and charge these babies?

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    Quote Originally Posted by etownboarder View Post
    Does anyone have any idea what they pay to pickup and charge these babies?
    .
    Looking to profit by joining the Dark Side you are.

    The colloquial term for those fulfilling the role of servicing e-Scooters is "Juicer".

    Here is a first-person account, it includes a bit of detail on the financial rewards.


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    Someone here will have an idea.

    What I want to know is what the City charges BIRD & LIME for the initial permits
    and what the City receives in terms of on-going fee revenues?

    Also, what penalties are levied for compliance failures?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mseaver View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by etownboarder View Post
    Does anyone have any idea what they pay to pickup and charge these babies?
    .
    Looking to profit by joining the Dark Side you are.

    The colloquial term for those fulfilling the role of servicing e-Scooters is "Juicer".

    Here is a first-person account, it includes a bit of detail on the financial rewards.

    Sweet. Thank you. That’s actually pretty cool.

  45. #45

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    The colloquial term for those fulfilling the role of servicing e-Scooters is "Juicer".
    or "revolting"...
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    Central Edmonton just got a little bit cooler...


    https://twitter.com/IanOyeg/status/1163250707673174016
    @ianoyeg
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    Nice photo. Shame about the total lack of protective equipment, though.
    Nisi Dominus Frustra

  48. #48

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    ^ really now. Would you like them bubble wrapped?

    Looks like the COE has created a new phenomenon.


    the e-scooter gang


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    I recall a 49cc gang in jr. high.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    ^ really now. Would you like them bubble wrapped?

    Looks like the COE has created a new phenomenon.


    the e-scooter gang



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    Tons of people riding on the sidewalks.

  52. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by mseaver View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by etownboarder View Post
    Does anyone have any idea what they pay to pickup and charge these babies?
    .
    Looking to profit by joining the Dark Side you are.

    The colloquial term for those fulfilling the role of servicing e-Scooters is "Juicer".

    Here is a first-person account, it includes a bit of detail on the financial rewards.

    Lime Juicer but not Bird Feeder?

  53. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by etownboarder View Post
    Tons of people riding on the sidewalks.
    Safety first.

  54. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by etownboarder View Post
    Tons of people riding on the sidewalks.
    Safety first.
    i really dont understand how the city thinks people will ride these on bike lanes and the road with cars. Every other city allows them on sidewalks, they are going to be used on sidewalks period.

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    Would I like them to be bubble-wrapped? No. If they're stupid enough to go 20kph on these things . . . well, it's their necks.
    Nisi Dominus Frustra

  56. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by trick91 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by etownboarder View Post
    Tons of people riding on the sidewalks.
    Safety first.
    i really dont understand how the city thinks people will ride these on bike lanes and the road with cars. Every other city allows them on sidewalks, they are going to be used on sidewalks period.
    Bolding mine

    No, many do not allow them on sidewalks, others do. Many allow up to 32kph speeds

    Calgary
    Minimum age 18
    Users can ride only on sidewalks, pathways and in bike lanes. It is illegal to ride these single-user devices on city roads.

    Victoria BC, Richmond BC
    BC’s Motor Vehicle Act defines these devices as motor vehicles, but they do not meet provincial equipment safety standards for on-road use.
    Motorized scooter or motorized skateboard Not permitted on roads:
    Not to be operated on a sidewalk adjacent to a roadway
    https://www.victoria.ca/assets/Depar...on%20Roads.pdf

    Chicago
    Equal to bikes, not allowed on sidewalks, use only on road, requires helmut

    Peterborough, ON
    Allowed on roads and bike lanes. Not allowed on sidewalks or multi-use trails
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    Only ride-share e-scooters are covered by the province's slackening of the laws, as just like with the Segway tours in the river valley the bending of the rules was for the companies involved, not the mode of conveyance in general. User owned miniature vehicles are not afforded the same leniency.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

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    ^ which makes absolutely no sense.

    Go out work on your e-scooter and get a ticket as people who rented them, go merrily along.
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  59. #59

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    It's almost as if it's not about new modes of transportation & instead is about new business models based upon shirking as much responsibility & upkeep as possible onto society while privately profiting.

    Seems about par for Alberta & the UCP's mantra.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  60. #60

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    Luckily that when Uber and taxis were legalized that private vehicles were not banned from the road.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  61. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    As will -25°C

    Gotta get the block heater option...
    You are clearly uninformed they will be pulling the bikes in October to come back during spring

  62. #62

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    Funny you did not call out howie

    Quote Originally Posted by howie View Post
    Early days, yet. If these things take off then there'll be a mess on sidewalks no doubt, and the City will have to revise the rules at some point. Still, snow and ice and oatmeal will put a serious dent in their use.
    Second, they are not bikes but e-scooters

    Thirdly, the point was that these will only be seasonal use which makes it a very hard business model compared to warmer climates such as Vancouver or Santa Monica

    and finally, you are clearly uninformed of what 'comic relief' is.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  63. #63
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    Why do these have such a bad( horrid) rap in other cities..? I hope drunks don't use them, out of the bar, take a scooter for a joy ride..
    They shouldn't be on the sidewalks, plenty of room on the bike lanes( and the bike riders are ****** off and don't want to share.( oh the irony) .LOL
    Animals are my passion.

  64. #64

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    I think that if you are caught drunk on an e-scooter on the road, you could be convicted of drunk driving.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  65. #65
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    Saw three dudes ripping down the sidewalk on 109 street north of Whyte yesterday, one of them hit a dip in the sidewalk where an alley crosses and he did a faceplant right out into the middle of the street. It was hilarious, I almost spit out my coffee.

    Some ***** [email protected] is going to get killed on these stupid things no doubt, but I'll call it Darwinism, just too bad that the poor driver that hits one is going to have to deal with that trauma.

  66. #66

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    Edmonton Journal picture shows e-scooter user breaking law by riding on sidewalk.

    Miracle or catastrophe: Edmonton residents flock to new Bird, Lime e-scooters

    ANNA JUNKER
    https://edmontonjournal.com/news/loc...ime-e-scooters


    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  67. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Edmonton Journal picture shows e-scooter user breaking law by riding on sidewalk.

    Miracle or catastrophe: Edmonton residents flock to new Bird, Lime e-scooters

    ANNA JUNKER
    https://edmontonjournal.com/news/loc...ime-e-scooters


    Sidewalk? Or driveway?



    This Lyons guy sounds quite positive about the safety of these units so most certainly he’s going to offer to cover the healthcare costs! (Universal healthcare entitlement must be a myth.)



    Bird e-scooters officially take flight in Edmonton | Edmonton Journal

    “ “Obviously accidents are an unfortunate thing … but the number of accidents have been overplayed,” he said. “There had been over 150,000 rides in Calgary at the time they last measured the number of accidents and there was something like 60-something accidents.”...”

    https://edmontonjournal.com/news/loc...ime-e-scooters

    Last edited by KC; 19-08-2019 at 12:14 PM.

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by 240GLT View Post
    Saw three dudes ripping down the sidewalk on 109 street north of Whyte yesterday, one of them hit a dip in the sidewalk where an alley crosses and he did a faceplant right out into the middle of the street. It was hilarious, I almost spit out my coffee.

    Some ***** [email protected] is going to get killed on these stupid things no doubt, but I'll call it Darwinism, just too bad that the poor driver that hits one is going to have to deal with that trauma.

    That's not good to hear. I don't want anyone to get killed, I just wonder how much research the city did, before they gave these scooters the okay..
    Animals are my passion.

  69. #69

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    Perpendicular to the driveway, sidewalks ahead and behind.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  70. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Perpendicular to the driveway, sidewalks ahead and behind.
    I’m sure it’s just the camera angle or the light playing tricks... or the rider was turning around.

  71. #71
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    Television presenter Emily Hartridge dies in electric scooter crash
    By James Tapper
    The Guardian 2019.07.14

    "Tributes have poured in for a TV presenter and YouTube star after she died in an electric scooter crash – the first fatal collision involving an e-scooter in Britain.

    Emily Hartridge died on Friday morning when her e-scooter collided with a lorry at a roundabout in Battersea, south-west London."

    .
    As deaths put e-scooters in the spotlight, what are European countries doing to keep citizens safe?
    By Cristina Abellan Matamoros
    Euro News 2019.06.18

    "Last week, France saw its first death on an electric scooter when the driver of a truck hit a 25-year-old man riding an e-scooter in Paris.The French capital started cracking down on electric scooters earlier this month after an anarchic year in which startups flooded the city's streets with their vehicles.

    ...

    The Swedish Transport Agency called to ban electric scooters from bicycle lanes after a 27-year-old man died in a crash while riding one of the electric vehicles in May.

    ...

    In Barcelona, a 92-year-old woman died in August 2018 after she was run over by an e-scooter — making it the first case of a pedestrian being killed by the electric vehicle."

    Of course, Gord Cebryk, Branch Manager of Parks and Roads Services knows these stats and much more.

    Ever vigilant, the City performed extensive due diligence during its investigation into the consequences of permitting eScooter rentals in Edmonton. As such, the City stands ready to be fully accountable to the public and especially to tax payers.
    Last edited by mseaver; 19-08-2019 at 02:58 PM.

  72. #72

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    ok mseaver we get it you hate these things stop foaming already

  73. #73
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    But wait, there's MORE:
    .
    8 Deaths Now Tied to E-Scooters
    By Ryan Felton
    Consumer Reports 2019.06.03

    "In March a 53-year-old San Diego man riding without a helmet died when he lost control of his scooter and crashed into a tree. A month later, in Tulsa, Okla., a 5-year-old boy riding with his mother died when he fell off a scooter and was hit by a vehicle. And there were at least two deaths in May: a 20-year-old in Atlanta hit while riding his scooter after midnight, and a 26-year-old Nashville man on a scooter hit by an SUV. CR confirmed reports of the crashes through public records and interviews with law enforcement authorities."

    Ah, well.

    Collateral damage in the War on Cars ...

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Magnus View Post
    ok mseaver we get it you hate these things stop foaming already
    Wrong.

    You miss the point.

  75. #75
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    MBS chef dies after falling off e-scooter at East Coast Park
    By David Sun
    Straits Times 2018.10.02

    "A chef died last Friday (Sept 23 after falling off his e-scooter about a week ago.

    Mr Lim Kian Yek, 23, a Malaysian chef working at Marina Bay Sands, was found unconscious at East Coast Park by a group of cyclists just past midnight on Sept 23. It is not known why or how he fell.

    ...

    In November 2015, a 38-year-old French national who worked as a chiropractor died after falling off an electric skateboard at the Green Connecting Bridge along East Coast Park Service Road near Fort Road.

    In March 2016, a 22-year-old man who worked at an e-scooter shop died after falling off an e-scooter after crossing the same bridge."

    .
    Nashville bans all electric scooters following rider death
    MSN 2019.06.24

    "Following the death of an intoxicated individual who was killed while riding on a Bird electric scooter in Nashville, the city's mayor David Briley announced on Friday that all e-scooters will be "removed from the Metro rights-of-way immediately upon the enactment of the Council legislation."
    .
    Today, I notified Nashville's seven scooter companies of my decision to end the pilot period and ban e-scooters from our streets. We have seen the public safety and accessibility costs that these devices inflict, and it is not fair to our residents for this to continue.

    ...

    Despite the city police determining that the scooter rider was responsible for the accident, Mayor Briley believes that the vehicles produce a sufficient number of safety concerns -- including "improper riding, parking violations, and poor rider education" -- that the shared e-scooters should be banned completely."
    Last edited by mseaver; 19-08-2019 at 03:30 PM.

  76. #76
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    Mother of two dies after e-scooter crash
    By Ashley Thompson
    CBS ATLANTA, Ga 2019.08.02

    "Thirty-four-year-old Amber Ford was in town from Alabama with her husband for a quick weekend getaway.

    “As soon as we pulled into the hotel she saw them and said, ‘those look fun, we need to figure out how to ride them.’ We were getting cussed out for being on the sidewalk,” Ford said. “So, us not being locals, we didn't know."

    On the way home from the show, the two rode in the street but just feet away from their hotel, Ford was struck by a car.

    Ford was taken to the hospital with a fractured skill. Her condition took a turn for the worst on Wednesday when she had a seizure and lost oxygen to her brain.

    ...

    This will be the city's third e-scooter related death. Last month, 37-year-old William Alexander was killed when he fell off a scooter and became trapped under a bus. In May, 20-year-old Eric Amis Jr. was killed when he was hit by a car on West Lake Avenue.

    Last month, Mayor Keisha Lance Bottoms issued a moratorium on new e- scooter permits, but there are still thousands of e-scooters in the city."

  77. #77
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    Reckless Endangerment Law and Legal Definition

    Reckless endangerment is a crime consisting of acts that create a substantial risk of serious physical injury to another person. The accused person isn't required to intend the resulting or potential harm, but must have acted in a way that showed a disregard for the foreseeable consequences of the actions. The charge may occur in various contexts, such as, among others, domestic cases, car accidents, construction site accidents, testing sites, domestic/child abuse situations, and hospital abuse. State laws and penalties vary, so local laws should be consulted.

  78. #78

    Default

    I had no idea streets were so dangerous!
    Live and love... your neighbourhood.

  79. #79

    Default

    lol jebus this guy is ****** nuts

  80. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Magnus View Post
    lol jebus this guy is ****** nuts
    check out the rest of his post history. At least he is consistent in his rants against 2-3 wheeled devices.
    A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims, but accomplices.

  81. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Magnus View Post
    lol jebus this guy is ****** nuts
    check out the rest of his post history. At least he is consistent in his rants against 2-3 wheeled devices.
    already did that the other day lol

  82. #82

    Default

    whats next mseaver? should we all get mandatory bubbles so no harm comes to ones self? or should the goverment force us to stay inside and never leave our houses?

  83. #83

  84. #84

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    My feeling is that of you are going to limit the speed to 20 mph, then they should only be used on sidewalks. If you want them only on roads, then 32 mph should be the limit.

    It gives you a fighting chance in traffic and on par with bikes.

    The COE went the opposite way.

    Also you should be able to use your own private e-scooter and not be forced to rent them from a private company.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  85. #85

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    My feeling is that of you are going to limit the speed to 20 mph, then they should only be used on sidewalks. If you want them only on roads, then 32 mph should be the limit.

    It gives you a fighting chance in traffic and on par with bikes.

    The COE went the opposite way.

    Also you should be able to use your own private e-scooter and not be forced to rent them from a private company.
    I agree. The good thing about them is they are smaller than bicycles so I think fairly easy to get around things. It probably wouldn't be a good idea to ride on busy sidewalks, but lets face it most of our downtown sidewalks are only really busy a couple of hours a day. It might be trickier on Whyte Ave.

  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Magnus View Post
    sorry to disappoint you but that's not a pic of mseaver, it's me.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  87. #87

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    My feeling is that of you are going to limit the speed to 20 mph, then they should only be used on sidewalks. If you want them only on roads, then 32 mph should be the limit.

    It gives you a fighting chance in traffic and on par with bikes.

    The COE went the opposite way.

    Also you should be able to use your own private e-scooter and not be forced to rent them from a private company.
    I agree. The good thing about them is they are smaller than bicycles so I think fairly easy to get around things. It probably wouldn't be a good idea to ride on busy sidewalks, but lets face it most of our downtown sidewalks are only really busy a couple of hours a day. It might be trickier on Whyte Ave.


    Designated bike lanes would also be acceptable.

    I just see an unacceptable risk of allowing them on busy arterial roads and bus routes at 20 kph
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  88. #88

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Magnus View Post
    sorry to disappoint you but that's not a pic of mseaver, it's me.
    If that was you, the cloud would be raining!
    Edmonton first, everything else second.

  89. #89
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    I almost had a guy run into me on the sidewalk today... he was riding RIGHT BESIDE the bike lane. It's not quite as dumb as the cyclists who ride on the sidewalk beside the bike lane, but pretty close. I tried to justify his stupidity by the Calgary Flames hat he was wearing.
    They're going to park their car over there. You're going to park your car over here. Get it?

  90. #90
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    We had to go to visit a friend, they are near to CanadianTire (kingsway.) Three scooters were toward the very back of the building two against the wall, the third lying down, where a big truck backing out, might not see it.. I wanted to call someone and let them know, I don't even know who owns them.They were still there when we left at 9.15pm. Joy rides , then just leave them, seems a really silly( wasteful) .thing to do, no wonder other cities don't like them...smh.
    Last edited by H.L.; 19-08-2019 at 10:35 PM.
    Animals are my passion.

  91. #91

    Default

    I say b.s. to your story right from the first line.

    You don't have friends....
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  92. #92

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    I say b.s. to your story right from the first line.

    You don't have friends....
    Does anyone that posts go c2e?

  93. #93

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    I say b.s. to your story right from the first line.

    You don't have friends....
    Pretty sure its you who doesnt have any friends and you just need to project that on to others that fact its really sad

  94. #94

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    Haven't looked at every post in the thread but I think its fair to be a bit critical of the Edmonton decision to allow these things on roadways.

    On one hand Edmonton is locked into its mandate of Vision zero to reduce accidents and injuries. Its gone full bore on that one transforming speed limits drastically to limit schoolground/playground accidents that were not prolific in the first place.

    Then it gives cursory blanket acceptance to adoption of motorized scooters just because some other cities are doing it.

    This despite Calgary experiencing 60 injuries that were significant to require hospital visits in the first two weeks of roll out of these damn things.

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...ries-1.5227244



    So in the least theres huge inconsistency here on the part of the COE. Is the mandate reducing accidents or not.

    Theres been tons of reported problems with the usage of these vehicles. People are not using helmets, they are not familiar with the operation of the scooters, while they are going 20k they are not comfortable in the braking or how well these vehicles actually brake. Most people using these motorized scooters have probably never been on a scooter before. Seems like a bad idea to have these people in traffic, on roads, none of whom are required to have a licence. At the very least usage of these should require a free training prerequisite. Learn to handle it properly with some supervision in a controlled space. The difference between these, and say bike sharing is that everybody has rode a bicycle before.

    The ridiculous fare cost on these things, paying by the minute, also results in some users probably going faster than they should to limit the cost of the trip. The cost is ridiculous. It cost more to rent a scooter than it costs me to rent a cargo van at a hardware store that has a sticker price 50 times that of these scooters.

    Finally, the adoption of these junk scooters is obscene from an environmental pov. They replace essentially walking, or cycling, etc and the average bird motorized scooter lasts about 28 days from prior reports. So in otherwards this conveyance is disposable junk. So poorly put together that its just another thing that piles up as garbage. This is disposable conveyance. This is not a green mode of conveyance when one considers that these don't last. These scooters are not manufactured to be commercial use. They are stated and intended to be personal limited use, by people 200lbs or under, for limited distance rides and are not intended for use in winter. As public modes these last on average around 28 days. Ridiculous.
    Last edited by Replacement; 20-08-2019 at 10:28 AM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  95. #95

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    One silo not talking to another silo? Doesn't sound like City of Edmonton administration at all!!!!


    /s
    A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims, but accomplices.

  96. #96

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Haven't looked at every post in the thread but I think its fair to be a bit critical of the Edmonton decision to allow these things on roadways.

    On one hand Edmonton is locked into its mandate of Vision zero to reduce accidents and injuries. Its gone full bore on that one transforming speed limits drastically to limit schoolground/playground accidents that were not prolific in the first place.

    Then it gives cursory blanket acceptance to adoption of motorized scooters just because some other cities are doing it.

    This despite Calgary experiencing 60 injuries that were significant to require hospital visits in the first two weeks of roll out of these damn things.

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...ries-1.5227244
    But Calgary's bylaw is opposite, only allowed on sidewalks, not streets.

    Calgary
    Minimum age 18
    Users can ride only on sidewalks, pathways and in bike lanes. It is illegal to ride these single-user devices on city roads.

    Even so, I can see some rider going down the sidewalk at 20kph, dodging pedestrians and then shooting across an intersection in the crosswalk as the light changes and someone in an SUV making a right or left turn crossing their path.
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 20-08-2019 at 11:11 AM.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  97. #97

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    Seems like the city did no real research on this mode of conveyance, or they just don't really care about Vision zero. Or sarcastically I could say the COE is displaying zero vision in allowing these things.

    The record on these is well established, and its bad. These are far more trouble than they are worth.

    https://mashable.com/article/e-scoot...-injury-study/

    "The most common injuries were to peoples heads."

    4% of users wear helmets. Its social Darwinism at best except the injuries also occur to those unsuspecting pedestrians that are hit by e scooters.

    This is a winter city. Full of potholes every spring, into early summer, and these vehicles crater in any pothole sending their user victims head first into whatever object.


    Next users of course require no insurance and the many accidents involving other vehicles or pedestrians are not settled by Bird or Lime, who have a flock of lawyers saying its user fault. Get injured or have your property or vehicle damaged by these and you get no compensation. Tons of accidents involving these scooters and pedestrians ON SIDEWALKS which the COE has falsely stated wanting to protect.

    Like most places these operate, the Edmonton roads, sidewalks, multiuse lanes just got more dangerous.

    This city loves any fad it seems and has to try everyone, no matter how spectacular a failure these have been in all other jurisdictions. This isn't even a profitable business endeavor because of the limited lifespan of these e scooters.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  98. #98

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Haven't looked at every post in the thread but I think its fair to be a bit critical of the Edmonton decision to allow these things on roadways.

    On one hand Edmonton is locked into its mandate of Vision zero to reduce accidents and injuries. Its gone full bore on that one transforming speed limits drastically to limit schoolground/playground accidents that were not prolific in the first place.

    Then it gives cursory blanket acceptance to adoption of motorized scooters just because some other cities are doing it.

    This despite Calgary experiencing 60 injuries that were significant to require hospital visits in the first two weeks of roll out of these damn things.

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...ries-1.5227244
    But Calgary's bylaw is opposite, only allowed on sidewalks, not streets.

    Calgary
    Minimum age 18
    Users can ride only on sidewalks, pathways and in bike lanes. It is illegal to ride these single-user devices on city roads.

    Even so, I can see some rider going down the sidewalk at 20kph, dodging pedestrians and then shooting across an intersection in the crosswalk as the light changes and someone in an SUV making a right or left turn crossing their path.
    I don't know if Edmonton's approach is a reaction to the number of accidents in Calgary, but before we get too excited about that, really every mode of transportation has accidents, bikes do and cars do also. Unless we all put on bubble wrap before leaving our homes there is a chance we will get injured. We need to consider the rate and severity of the accidents and not just take a number out of context.

  99. #99

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Haven't looked at every post in the thread but I think its fair to be a bit critical of the Edmonton decision to allow these things on roadways.

    On one hand Edmonton is locked into its mandate of Vision zero to reduce accidents and injuries. Its gone full bore on that one transforming speed limits drastically to limit schoolground/playground accidents that were not prolific in the first place.

    Then it gives cursory blanket acceptance to adoption of motorized scooters just because some other cities are doing it.

    This despite Calgary experiencing 60 injuries that were significant to require hospital visits in the first two weeks of roll out of these damn things.

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...ries-1.5227244
    But Calgary's bylaw is opposite, only allowed on sidewalks, not streets.

    Calgary
    Minimum age 18
    Users can ride only on sidewalks, pathways and in bike lanes. It is illegal to ride these single-user devices on city roads.

    Even so, I can see some rider going down the sidewalk at 20kph, dodging pedestrians and then shooting across an intersection in the crosswalk as the light changes and someone in an SUV making a right or left turn crossing their path.
    The EJ, as we saw in the article even had the user on a sidewalk, flouting the rules, on the front page of the paper. Sidewalk usage is occurring all over. At the fringe they are darting around anywhere. Pedestrian dodge seems to be a new game.

    The accidents you foresee with vehicles have all occurred in other jurisdictions. With damages to new vehicles up to 4-5 K. With no compensation paid. With people having to eat those costs through their own insurance, paying the deductible, and having their rates go up due to the claim.

    Bird and Lime have notorious records and absolve themselves of all blame. They even try to deny the presence of one of their e scooters at accident scenes when street cameras and bystanders have reported the accident and the scooter being involved. Any of these claims is obfuscated by Bird and Lime.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  100. #100

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Haven't looked at every post in the thread but I think its fair to be a bit critical of the Edmonton decision to allow these things on roadways.

    On one hand Edmonton is locked into its mandate of Vision zero to reduce accidents and injuries. Its gone full bore on that one transforming speed limits drastically to limit schoolground/playground accidents that were not prolific in the first place.

    Then it gives cursory blanket acceptance to adoption of motorized scooters just because some other cities are doing it.

    This despite Calgary experiencing 60 injuries that were significant to require hospital visits in the first two weeks of roll out of these damn things.

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...ries-1.5227244
    But Calgary's bylaw is opposite, only allowed on sidewalks, not streets.

    Calgary
    Minimum age 18
    Users can ride only on sidewalks, pathways and in bike lanes. It is illegal to ride these single-user devices on city roads.

    Even so, I can see some rider going down the sidewalk at 20kph, dodging pedestrians and then shooting across an intersection in the crosswalk as the light changes and someone in an SUV making a right or left turn crossing their path.
    I don't know if Edmonton's approach is a reaction to the number of accidents in Calgary, but before we get too excited about that, really every mode of transportation has accidents, bikes do and cars do also. Unless we all put on bubble wrap before leaving our homes there is a chance we will get injured. We need to consider the rate and severity of the accidents and not just take a number out of context.
    E scooter accidents are far more prevalent per user/kilometer than either the walking or bus riding they replace. The accidents, often involving head injuries are also far more serious.

    The bubble wrap argument is always silly in context of a known dangerous conveyance.

    As stated earlier people know how to ride bikes, in the case of bikes they are using their own bikes and are familiar with its usage, its braking, handling, etc. These rent scooters offer zero such familiarity and so that the handling of these is much more dangerous and subject to driver error and accidents. The wheel and clearance profile is also entirely different. Any road uncomformity or pothole will basically swallow these small wheels sending the user careening. These e scooters profile and wheels are NOT suitable for usage on anything but perfect condition paths and roadways. Not what is encountered in a winter pothole city.

    Nor are bicycles limited to under 200lbs only, or subject to such advised limited usage and with such enormous known defects. From reports sometimes the brakes on e scooters are said not to work, or not to work or function as expected.
    Last edited by Replacement; 20-08-2019 at 11:41 AM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

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