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Thread: moved posts from airshow 2019 thread

  1. #1
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    Default moved posts from airshow 2019 thread

    St Albert is providing park and ride out of there.

    Edmonton doesn't want to play this year on any level, or at least not yet. I keep getting passed around. Right now, the Edmonton Airshow is not very Edmonton.
    President and CEO - Airshow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RichardS View Post
    St Albert is providing park and ride out of there.

    Edmonton doesn't want to play this year on any level, or at least not yet. I keep getting passed around. Right now, the Edmonton Airshow is not very Edmonton.
    maybe you just need to figure out a way to make villeneuve part of the ice district?
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by RichardS View Post
    St Albert is providing park and ride out of there.

    Edmonton doesn't want to play this year on any level, or at least not yet. I keep getting passed around. Right now, the Edmonton Airshow is not very Edmonton.
    Pity. The airshow gets as many people, if not more than, Folk Fest, Heritage Fest, any Edmonton Eskimos Game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RichardS View Post
    St Albert is providing park and ride out of there.

    Edmonton doesn't want to play this year on any level, or at least not yet. I keep getting passed around. Right now, the Edmonton Airshow is not very Edmonton.
    Thats too bad, I wonder why.?
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    Shame on the Edmonton officials for not stepping up to the plate.
    Edmonton first, everything else second.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RichardS View Post
    St Albert is providing park and ride out of there.

    Edmonton doesn't want to play this year on any level, or at least not yet. I keep getting passed around. Right now, the Edmonton Airshow is not very Edmonton.
    maybe you just need to figure out a way to make villeneuve part of the ice district?
    ...don't laugh...but I did propose putting an event during the airshow that would encompass the ice district and bring downtown into the fold.

    I was told that someone would get back to me...and even after a few reminders...crickets...

    I've come to learn "I'll get back to you Rich" = bugger off and don't bug me again...
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    Quote Originally Posted by IrishAtomic View Post

    Pity. The airshow gets as many people, if not more than, Folk Fest, Heritage Fest, any Edmonton Eskimos Game.
    This year we are scaling up to handle 50-60K and are limiting it at that. I've been told to expect that. Will we hit those numbers...I hope so. We will be at least 40...

    With the pending participation from a group out of Nevada, and their proven economic impact numbers of $90m in an area about 1/3 the size of Edmonton, we have the ability to be a replacement for the loss of the CFR revenue...but we would definitely need Edmonton to play. Calgary and Provincial interests are wanting to play, I have great support in the region with those mayors and CAO's set to meet up with my team here in the next couple of days, so here's hoping...

    but if it comes to pass, that is a significant increase in room nights, rental cars, restaurant needs, etc. I can already prove out the room nights and rental cars that are currently consumed...

    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post

    Thats too bad, I wonder why.?
    One response is that this economic development event is not physically in Edmonton, yet we keep talking regional (like the region paying for a rec centre in the west end, etc). The future version of the Edmonton Airshow is internationally focused, so those attendees do not care about Edmonton vs Parkland vs Morinville...

    This is the best opportunity for the City of Edmonton to eat its own dogfood and perform on the shared investment, shared reward conversation...in a very visual sense. To have Calgary and other interests from throughout the Province and Western Canada kicking at the tires, yet radio silence from my hometown...sigh
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    As always Rich, let me know how we can help navigating some of that COE/EEDC/Tourism stuff.
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    Bring up this "Edmonton region but no COE" attitude with the media. Seriously.
    Go to CBC, CTV, Global, Journal, etc. Talk with the Vanesh Prateps, Elise Stoltes and Jeremy Thompsons.
    Media attention will finally wake up Mayor Iveson and the rest of City Hall.
    Force them to take this seriously before we end up losing another festival to Calgary.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    ^ Bingo
    Edmonton first, everything else second.

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    This airport is after all being operated by the EDMONTON Regional Airport Authority. Edmonton gets branding recognition and Council needs to get off their duff and should be LEADING the parade of EDMONTON Metropolitan Region municipalities. Mayor Don Iveson - wakey wakey !!

    My rant on C2E: http://bit.ly/318mHGY
    Last edited by EdmTrekker; 03-06-2019 at 09:40 PM.

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    Was it due to the timing of approach if I may ask? Could all municipalities contribute going forward in future planning and proposal?
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

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    I am trying to be careful, fair, and represent a conversation that is about 15 years old, and one that has been pushed hard since the closure vote of CYXD in 2010. The desire came from a way to recruit and retain industry that was leaving due to the changes needed for municipal growth and to recognize CZVL as the second airport.

    read EdmTrekker's post...it sums it up perfectly. As for other municipalities, and Edmonton Airports, they are at the table in a large capacity.
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    As always Rich, let me know how we can help navigating some of that COE/EEDC/Tourism stuff.
    Is there an upcoming DBA luncheon I can speak at? I'd send out the key messages documents, but without context, it may not translate well. Otherwise, simple lobbying for this event to at least get more than a casual glance would be nice. I am working with 4 councillors and am getting no traction.

    If Edmonton doesn't want this, then OK. Just come out and say it.
    President and CEO - Airshow.

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    It would be a terrible shame if the city does not step up and support this.... but wouldn't surprise me one bit if they didn't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RichardS View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    As always Rich, let me know how we can help navigating some of that COE/EEDC/Tourism stuff.
    Is there an upcoming DBA luncheon I can speak at? I'd send out the key messages documents, but without context, it may not translate well. Otherwise, simple lobbying for this event to at least get more than a casual glance would be nice. I am working with 4 councillors and am getting no traction.

    If Edmonton doesn't want this, then OK. Just come out and say it.
    There isn't, but I am happy to pass things along.

    I am certain that is not the case.
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  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by IrishAtomic View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RichardS View Post
    St Albert is providing park and ride out of there.

    Edmonton doesn't want to play this year on any level, or at least not yet. I keep getting passed around. Right now, the Edmonton Airshow is not very Edmonton.
    Pity. The airshow gets as many people, if not more than, Folk Fest, Heritage Fest, any Edmonton Eskimos Game.
    More than Heritage Festival? Um, no.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post

    More than Heritage Festival? Um, no.
    375K is a large number of turns, for sure. We're not there yet, and I am definitely not trying to one-up Heritage Festival...or anyone for that matter. We expect a great crowd to be 2-250K in future years. ...and to be clear, I love the Heritage Festival.

    ...however, this event was asked for by the CoE as a way to help transition and have a good post CCA message, as well as retain and attract certain core aspects of the logistics and transportation industry. It also was to align to new technologies being recruited here. It is also the cornerstone of the Centre of Excellence concept. So, while Heritage has a valued, important, and beloved role in this city, this one has a much larger business focus. Without the CoE being behind what they asked for, the general consensus is that they are just going to kill it...either through roadblocks or general apathy.

    Where we are different is that we are focused on external visitors and external recruitment. We are attracting external dollars as a matter of course. With the recent article (premature, but I guess press is press), interest is coming in from Calgary and Vancouver...we just signed our first sponsor from Calgary Friday.
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  19. #19

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    I really haven't wanted to get into the Convo on this Richard and have stayed away from the respective threads out of respect.

    Most people that post here want this Airshow, or an Airshow going on. I don't for a number of reasons but didn't post that opinion until now.

    Kudos for your efforts btw

    But having seen the blaming of the COE in this and the other threads (you know btw I'm sympathetic to that kind of thing, I'm often critical of the COE) I'll note there are many reasons why a Municipality would not need or want to get involved with an externally located, or any airshow, and I shouldn't need to get into those many reasons.

    Maybe the COE could be just more straight with you and say we don't want to be involved in any of this, we don't want any responsibility in this. You would obviously know much more about the treatment, reaction, but there could be some people in City Hall, or in the Admin that are firmly recommending the city not being involved. When you say something like "the COE is behind this" that is a general term that implies a City admin, or elected reps does not change at all. That views don't change at all, or that all salient parties within that COE continue to support the endeavor. I wonder about that.

    There are also a lot of people, for a lot of different reasons that are adamantly opposed to the continuance of airshows. I am certainly one now. Yes I've been to several airshows in the past and as early as the 60's. I won't go to another one. I won't lobby against them so that others can't go. But I don't think they should exist in present day.
    Last edited by Replacement; 09-06-2019 at 02:01 PM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

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    Fair enough. I don't expect everyone to like this.

    Remember, this was an ask to create this. This was meant to help transition from the CCA. This is more than an Airshow.

    BTW - with the planned Reno numbers, if they pan out, while still not Heritage...beats CFR.

    If they were honest, they never should have asked for this in the first place. SO, your attitude is that since I've absorbed 100% of the risk, and was led down a garden path, it is "sucks to be you...you're an *****?"

    Thanks.

    ...and people wonder why we get the negative rap...
    President and CEO - Airshow.

  21. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by RichardS View Post
    Fair enough. I don't expect everyone to like this.

    Remember, this was an ask to create this. This was meant to help transition from the CCA. This is more than an Airshow.

    BTW - with the planned Reno numbers, if they pan out, while still not Heritage...beats CFR.

    If they were honest, they never should have asked for this in the first place. SO, your attitude is that since I've absorbed 100% of the risk, and was led down a garden path, it is "sucks to be you...you're an *****?"

    Thanks.

    ...and people wonder why we get the negative rap...
    I edited my post as is my tendency. My writing style is to post, correct, revise, and my post is usually not immediately finished. In my edit I've mentioned that the COE while once supporting the endeavor may have had new influential people in the admin, new advisors, or elected councillors that no longer support the endeavor.

    I certainly don't want to rub you the wrong way and I think I worded my post as respectfully as I could seeing how we have polar and absolute opposites on such an Airshow endeavor.

    I certainly agree a City shouldn't ask for something if they are not prepared to follow through on. But theres a bit of the problem. Such things as an airshow, or a f1 series event or such requires decades of commitment to start to achieve desired success. The reality is though that elected govts don't really get to speak for what future administrations will want, support, etc. There can be changes of opinion, its possible that there have been at the City level, and its what I'm pointing out.

    The last part you may not want to hear. I've had discussion with you for a decade here now, read all your posts, known some of your thoughts on the COE. What they have done (very little, and with aborted process, and cooperation) is pretty much exactly what you would come to expect, and have expected. Your experience with the COE is decades of frustration. This is not a new thing. While saying that I certainly DO respect your tenacity, your involvement, your want to persevere and do, again, give you kudos for that.

    Anyway with that I do wish you success in this endeavor, even if I oppose it in principle. I can't really be nicer than this regarding a topic and endeavor I am so opposed to.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

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    May I ask why you are opposed? I'd like to know given the reality that you give frank answers.

    My thoughts are that CoE administrators are governed by the policies set forth by Council. So, I cannot fault them for following the rules. I don't.

    The CAO currently knows me, knows what I do, and I have overdelivered for her on several files.
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  23. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by RichardS View Post
    May I ask why you are opposed? I'd like to know given the reality that you give frank answers.
    Richard, I question whether it would be polite, or proper, for me to post the reasons for my opposition (several) on this thread, and on your board. I can only think doing that publicly HERE will create friction and its already noted in one of your above replies where you got upset at me (or at least that's how I read the response) for pointing something out.

    I'm perfectly fine with posting something in a PM, just to you, but your settings last time I checked do not allow personal messaging or notifications.

    Its not my wish to be disruptive to the thread, or your event. I would welcome though having some personal dialog should you wish that. I think it would be better that way.

    Thank you for acknowledging that I am Frank. In most things.

    But with this one issue its more complex as I'm speaking on what I consider your board, and regarding your event. So that I'm not rude enough to be wiping my shoes in your livingroom, as a guest, as it were. If that makes any sense.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

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    My PM settings are global as I cannot restrict them with my position here. Send a test one.

    I also enjoy coffe or an adult beverage.
    President and CEO - Airshow.

  25. #25

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    I saw Councillor McKeen in person yesterday, and let him know the City had not got back to the air show about the park and ride. I told him it would be also be handy for those of us with no car to get out there. He said he hadn't heard about the issue and that he knows Richard, and he planned to reach out to him on this matter.

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    Thank you!

    Scott and I know each other from his Journal days. About 16 years now.

    He may not be familiar as I don't frame it as park and ride, but more of a leadership and rallying conversation. There's more to be said. I am very happy you said something.
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    Thanks for the reminder. Just to close the loop, I have not heard back from Councillor McKeen on this file.

    I will be writing one final note to council. It is obvious this is not something they support or want. Edmonton gets all of the praise, accolades, and recognition...I get the invoice.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichardS View Post
    Thanks for the reminder. Just to close the loop, I have not heard back from Councillor McKeen on this file.

    I will be writing one final note to council. It is obvious this is not something they support or want. Edmonton gets all of the praise, accolades, and recognition...I get the invoice.
    He was pretty useless as our councilman, so good luck!
    He loves being on TV,perhaps get CTV to ask him?
    Animals are my passion.

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    I do know a key would be letters/e-mails sent to council to support the event and the spinoff economic opportunity. So far, it is just me lobbying.
    President and CEO - Airshow.

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    "He was pretty useless as our councilman, so good luck! "

    So true - so very true. Totally useless. A lackey-boy for Iveson. Sorry to say we EVER voted for him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EdmTrekker View Post
    "He was pretty useless as our councilman, so good luck! "

    So true - so very true. Totally useless. A lackey-boy for Iveson. Sorry to say we EVER voted for him.
    We did as well, once. Once was enough.
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