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Thread: Lack of City of Edmonton Support for Edmonton Airshow

  1. #1
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    Default Lack of City of Edmonton Support for Edmonton Airshow

    Nothing peeves me more than to see my Edmonton Mayor and Councillors running around the EDMONTON Metropolitan Region promoting the need to cooperate, think and brand as ONE and then when asked to step up for projects and events outside Edmonton they are gutless. Which gets me to the Edmonton Airshow 2019 at Edmonton/Villeneuve Airport (yes Wiki recognize its "ours") which is a heartbeat from the Edmonton city limits. This airport is our secondary airport and operated by the EDMONTON Regional Airport Authority. EDMONTON gets branding recognition. But the Mayor and Council are lethargic and wont get off their duffs to support this world class airshow when they should be LEADING the parade of EDMONTON Metropolitan Region municipalities in supporting this with contributions in kind and some financial support to grow this. All these visitors are staying in hotels and eating at restaurants in Edmonton!! Where is the Mayor? Have we got a Council falloff deadbeats? Edmonton does not need to lose another major event - this time maybe to Calgary ... which may well happen if Edmonton Council does not step up to the plate and assume is prime role in the Region for this growing event.

    Here is a thread on C2E on this: http://bit.ly/3167BBZ

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    Afraid I'm not up-to-date. What is being asked of the CoE?
    ... gobsmacked

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    Also, what was asked of the rest of the municipalities? As well, are we privy to know the package presentation or proposal? I'm just curious where C2E members could perhaps collectively help with further refinement/ideas for future approach?
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    Quote Originally Posted by McBoo View Post
    What is being asked of the CoE?
    ...to finally show up at an event they asked to be created, and now is the second largest of its kind in Canada...with international recognition. EdmTrekker put it well. This is a chance for Edmonton to show leadership on a major regional file, and earn colossal political capital by demonstrating its commitment to shared investment, shared benefit. If the expansion I was approached on by Nevada comes to play, the economic upside is colossal.

    This was done by local capital, local effort, and local drive. Edmonton doesn't have to search for its CFR replacement, it is here.

    In short...pick up the phone.
    President and CEO - Airshow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ctzn-Ed View Post
    Also, what was asked of the rest of the municipalities? As well, are we privy to know the package presentation or proposal? I'm just curious where C2E members could perhaps collectively help with further refinement/ideas for future approach?
    The rest of the municipalities and their CAO's and Ec Dev departments are there. Some more than others and Sturgeon/ST Albert are in of course the largest. Again, I won't step on any press release toes as I respect Mayor Hnatiw (who BTW is a leader to watch...she's AMAZING!!) and her Council/EcDev team.

    There is a package that I send out when invited to Chamber/Council meetings, rubber chicken events, and business luncheons. It is vetted by several groups and will form the basis for a Centre of Excellence in aviation and Innovation proposal forthcoming. I will see where it is best to put up...
    President and CEO - Airshow.

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    I emailed my local Councillor asking why the City of Edmonton has refused/ignored this event. Mind boggling why they are not a massive proponent of it.
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    Richard, still not sure if there's been a financial ask, or otherwise.

    I'd support having the city get involved, as it has for many festivals within the city limits.

    I'm sure someone on council would be willing to listen and maybe even champion your cause.

    Maybe the metro regional board?
    ... gobsmacked

  8. #8

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    Part of the reason I asked of other municipalities involvnent is that, if we are talking about cooperation so should the cost. We have to understand the current dynamic of boundaries here. Seeing as how St.Albert is only 15 minutes away and with a system, they should take charge. Why does Edmonton have to be responsible? If extra buses are needed, all municipalities could contribute their fare. Naturally other communities will expect Edmonton to foot the bill... if we are asking of the city, what are we asking of Sherwood Park, Leduc, Spruce Grove, Stony Plain, and Fort Saskatchewan. In all fairness to our city, give me the goods of other contributors before I lambast my own city! I love to cheer on the bandwagon like some, but I need to truly know what I'm cheering here. You people dont understand that the COE side provides transportation to communities like Ft Saskatchewan or Sprucegrove. If they have to provide transport, that would include those areas and so would the cost to us. Are there guarantees on contributions by those communities prior to asking the city? Like I said, it is a very dynamic situation here...
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    McBoo, ctzn-Ed...

    I've been up since 0300hrs trying to concisely answer your comments. There is a ton of history and information behind the statements I have, but I am cognizant of the fact I can't write a word wall. You'll just tune out.

    I've answered the questions in other posts, but I am trying again so please be patient. I am not ignoring you.

    It is also a political landmine.

    I can answer McBoo's easier....yes...there is a regional (Edmonton included) ask. It included Edmonton Global, Chambers of Commerce, and Councils. It was not just financial, it was access to their networks for the private sector, and an expression of support so that the private sector can see there is more to this...and that no veto hammer is forthcoming.

    ctzn-Ed...yours is longer, more complex, and fraught with political landmines. I also understand regional issues very well, and this event is actually a huge metaphor for regional cooperation and shared investment, shared reward.

    The short answer is Edmonton gets 100-1000x more in revenue/spend from this event than it has ever spent on it. So, if you want to talk cost, revenue must be included. Most of the suppliers, etc are in Edmonton. If ETS did a park and ride, it would be Edmontonians riding it. We keep heat maps on attendees, and if they aren't in Edmonton, they definitely are not driving to Calder or Lewis Estates to then hop a bus to Villeneuve.

    PS - Spruce Grove, Leduc, and others have their own transit now.
    President and CEO - Airshow.

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    Thanks Richard, and I agree with you that the city should be involved as a regional partner.
    ... gobsmacked

  11. #11

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    Me too. The word "copperation" thrown out is a little bit misconstrued. What is cooperation? Is that joint cost to provide transport for the event; or is it, Edmonton has a transit system, so we'll keep our mouth shut in hoping Edmontonians will foot the bill? I'm more than willing to partake if every municipality contribute their fair allotment. That is cooperation for me. What is Villeneuve contribution since they'll most likely gain the financial bennifits over everyone else...? These are fair questions to me. A "potluck" means you throw something in. At least, that is how I understand it.
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    Please let me know how Villeneuve benefits the most?

    Its hotels, caterers, rental car companies, taxis, restaurants, casinos, theatres, bars...?

    Let's start with Villeneuve is ~153 people, Edmonton is ~900K.
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    Fair enough Richard. Having once landed at Villeneuve (famously having asked control, "what is abeam?") - it has no resources to contribute - it's just a place name.

    But there are others in metro, us being the significant one of them, it's reasonable that if we're to call it the Edmonton Airshow vs. Villeneuve Airshow, that the CoE should reasonably be involved.
    ... gobsmacked

  14. #14

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    I'm paying my $25 to file a FOIP request to the City of Edmonton to do some digging.


    Have you tried the business associations? I hear the North and West ones are very active.

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    FYI.

    St.Albert stepped up X2 yesterday.

    So, about that "region isn't helping and just expecting" thing...
    President and CEO - Airshow.

  16. #16

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    That is great to know. Now, we have the Fort, Leduc, Spruce Stoney Plain, and rural communities...

    When we ask for transit for an event, I hope the general cheerleaders understand that we also ask for police, firefighters, ambulance, specialty units for explosives and chemical and biohazard... what are the cost of overtime for all of the above? Who us planning all the transit issues? Most likely ETS, so add in the cost of your chief planner, staffs, and overtime ($$$). Do we realize that senior ETS personnel s will be on the field with their trucks supervising ($$$). Who is organizing volunteers to assist with navigation? Who is paying for the communication devices and cost overall? Who will be paying for the portable potties required at those transit centre are some the immediate cost I could think.

    We think of only buses when infact, just off the top of my head, I can factor in other costs. How are other counties helping us with this since most areas will rely on Edmonton? These are Edmonton's cost off my head. Now, can someone demonstrate for me the cost from other counties since we're on the "REGIONAL COOPERATION" topic? Please do enlightening me on this...

    The angle, a city of 900k or 1 million benefiting from visitors for hotels etc, that would mean a metro around 1.45 million only has hotel rooms in Edmonton? NO, so that would be almost 1/2 million competing against us while we subsidize them?

    Once again, I hope for a resolution but to call Edmonton a non player is hogwash to the highest degree. If not, show me other counties' contribution !!!
    Last edited by ctzn-Ed; 08-06-2019 at 06:15 PM.
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    ^

    ctz-Ed, i don't understand the point or the logic of your post...

    as far as i know, the city if edmonton didn't provide any park and ride services - or any other services - for the air show last year and, unless you know something that hasn't been announced yet, has no plans to so this year either.

    furthermore, as far as i know, the city of edmonton is not a sponsor in cash or in kind.

    so, while i would be more than happy to be wrong on both fronts, in the interim it would seem to me that if there is any hogwash out there, it would be considering the city of edmonton to be anything but a non-player and with any contributions by any other local government regardless of the size of that contribution being 100% more than the city of edmonton's.

    and as long as that's the status quo, it's short-sighted, foolish and embarrasing.
    Last edited by kcantor; 08-06-2019 at 06:51 PM.
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    To clarify, I'm not against doing a bus formula for the airshow. My contention was purely for the cheerleading pompom squat that makes statements without truly understanding the requirements needed for such staging. Dont get me wrong as im no expert in this matter. However, having gone through so many major events, I have seen the ancillary requirements that come along with such matter.

    If we are throwing the term Regionsl cooperation in the realm, let's discuss...
    Going forward, for any future event, what doess regional cooperation mean? There are 1.45 million people in the metro era, so does thst mean 1 million will always pay for the 1.4+ every time this situation come up? Or, should we say, "listen everyone contribute their share based on population". That would mean Edmonton would cover 70ish percent while the rest of the municipality cover the rest. Now, to me, that is cooperation. Do we have that? If we dont, I'm not embarrassed what do ever. Here is why... if you had a group of 15 that always party together, but it is always the same ten that are incurred financially. How long do you think that group of 15 will last, or do you think that will most like twindled down to 10?
    Last edited by ctzn-Ed; 08-06-2019 at 07:32 PM.
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    ^

    except you seem to have it backwards... if i was to use your analogy, there would be 15 people partying with only 5 picking up the tab and edmonton would be the freeloading 10.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  20. #20

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    How would they be free loading? They buy tickets to go see; they're driving out there; and they'll most likely spend direct dollars into shops in the town. The airshow only exist because of our population base...If transit was in place as the party, Edmontonians are providing for Edmontonians ; How are other places helping themselves? Most would mooch of Edmonton. If I'm mooching, I guess I'll dismiss myself from attending starting this year going forward as I thought I contributed to their economy last year by attending and spending my X amount there ; I dont mooch!
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    please don't take offence at something that wasn't directed at you personally... your attendance - and enjoyment - is a big part of the reason for putting on the show.

    but it's not the only part and your ticket price shouldn't have to pay for the business and economic development that should be an integral part of the event. those, along with the educational and training and tourism opportunities, should be paid for by those who have the greatest opportunity to capitalize on that potential.

    it's not just about everyone sharing the fixed costs, it's really about everyone recognizing the greater potential in leveraging this event as broadly as possible across the region just like calgary does with the stampede. those attending stampede events aren't expected to pay the full freight just as those buying tickets for the grey cup game aren't expected to pay the full freight for grey cup week.

    it's getting the event to the point where the fixed costs aren't just covering expenses, they're a demonstrably positive investment in something bigger and more important than just three or four hours of entertainment. the entertainment is the icing. we still need to figure out how to bake the cake.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  22. #22

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    Ken, I have no objection with transit for this event nor any other future event that arise. As an Edmontonian, I'm willing to be partners with the region; like I asked, how does regional partner work? It has never been agreed upon or defined, so I do take offence when Edmonton is accused of not being non-cooperative. If we had set agreement in place and our city failed, that is entirely different. However, to accuse one of being a non player, but cant prove the contribution of others, I can't take that serious either Ken...


    In all honesty, the topic should be: How should regional cooperation establish transit for regional major events- albeit in Edmonton or the fringe of Edmonton?

    When we dialogue with proper solution, I can windstorm on my own initiative and counter my plight to my alderman with some logistic and credible point of view. I cant understand and help when there is just defense, and I cant make a good argument to my alderman if I dont know what the true break down is...
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    this is a much broader discussion than just transit - i'm not sure why you're so fixated on that small slice.

    i'm also not sure why you're so fixated on the contributions of others.

    regardless of the level of contributions of others, edmonton's contributions so far as i know still amount to zero. hopefully that will change for the better as it certainly can't change for worse.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  24. #24

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    Any large event will succumb to transit... plain and simple. It is not necessarily transit, but my plight is more of a contributory formula that is fair for all around...In essence, our region need to set up a social bank account if you want to put that way.
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    Ctzn-Ed.

    Read.

    Carefully.

    This...is...NOT...about...transit. ETS could easily charge for this to the riders. Edmontonians would be, by a large, large, large margin, the riders.
    President and CEO - Airshow.

  26. #26

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    Well, stop beating around the bush and share... So, if it ain't transit issue, then why bring up that St. Albert is donating free park and ride and justify that as cooperation? Is the airshow at St. Albert's park and ride now? If not, what good is park and ride in St. Albert then? How do we get to the show since there is just parking space? Obviously, by that notion, Sturgeont county has no intention of providing public transit. That notion tells me they're trying to weasel Edmonton's tax money for transit. Go ahead... explain to me the extravagant contributes from St Albert and how the park and ride space will be an impact to the airshow which their county will benefit directly from those who will attend the show. You may not think it is an issue; if this event is successful to your projected target, I say transit will be an issue going forward- by the great gesture of a city of 80k in a county of over 100k that has a transit system- by the donation of park and ride. So who is doing the buses since the county with a transit system is gaining everything here but only offering "PARK AND RIDE"?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctzn-Ed View Post
    Well, stop beating around the bush and share... So, if it ain't transit issue, then why bring up that St. Albert is donating free park and ride and justify that as cooperation? Is the airshow at St. Albert's park and ride now? If not, what good is park and ride in St. Albert then? How do we get to the show since there is just parking space? Obviously, by that notion, Sturgeont county has no intention of providing public transit. That notion tells me they're trying to weasel Edmonton's tax money for transit. Go ahead... explain to me the extravagant contributes from St Albert and how the park and ride space will be an impact to the airshow which their county will benefit directly from those who will attend the show. You may not think it is an issue; if this event is successful to your projected target, I say transit will be an issue going forward- by the great gesture of a city of 80k in a county of over 100k that has a transit system- by the donation of park and ride. So who is doing the buses since the county with a transit system is gaining everything here but only offering "PARK AND RIDE"?
    having been involved with the airshow - and numerous other events - i will try and give you my understanding of the answer you haven't been able to deduce. it's not about "park and ride", it's about two things: money support both public and private.

    it matters not what the money is allocated for, whether it's cash to sponsor a particular performer (like the snowbirds who all stayed in edmonton the last time they were here) or in kind (like park and ride).

    public support from the city would be using the city's event flagpoles like they do for soccer or declaring "air show week" or hosting a welcome event at city hall in front of the media or participating in an ad or tourism campaign.

    private support from the city is as simple as letting the business community know this is an enterprise that has long-term positive impacts for the city and that business can plan to support the event along with the city with the type of multi-hear time frames that business needs to plan around without being concerned that it is a one-year "one-off" that strands their investment.
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    OK, so what is the other municipalities contributions?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ctzn-Ed View Post
    OK, so what is the other municipalities contributions?
    i don't know.

    but, just like being fixated on the "park and ride" doesn't matter, that doesn't matter either.

    this is a good event for edmonton and for edmonton business that could be a great event for edmonton and edmonton business and it deserves edmonton's support if it's going to stay/survive here and flourish the way it deserves to. which is, of course, the topic of this thread isn't it?

    if you think a similar thread needs to be opened to criticize other municipalities, feel free rather than trying to derail or deflect this one.
    Last edited by kcantor; 11-06-2019 at 10:32 AM.
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  30. #30

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    I have attended this event every year since it's inception with my family; it's become a "tradition" for us, so to say.
    In the past couple of years we have brought friends of ours (and their families) along, and this is how this kind of event grows.
    It's a great day away from all of the daily BS to just park your butt on the grass and watch "crazy" people do crazy things on wings.
    I live in St. Albert and the people I have been drawing to the event live here as well.
    We don't leave the airshow and decide to go get a meal and a room in Edmonton, so I don't really see how we contribute anything to the COE in this regard.
    The fact that St. Albert will be providing a park and ride this year is (from my POV) a very (long overdue; IMO) good thing.

    As for all of the politics that goes on behind the scenes? I'm oblivious to this aspect; I'm also ambivalent.
    All I want is for it to continue to grow, and to provide me with my usual day in the (fingers crossed) sun in early August.

    I would also like to add a HUGE thumbs up to "Richard S" (who I don't believe I've met as of yet, but maybe at the museum?) for all of his efforts in growing this event over the past 5 years.

    IMO? COE/ETS chipping in with a park and ride from WEM or Lewis Estates on the event days will only help to broaden the accessibility for an event such as this, particularly for folks that don't have a "daily ride" sitting on their driveway.

    All for now, Ron

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