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Thread: Healthcare cuts/spending - post 2019 Election

  1. #1
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    Default Healthcare cuts/spending - post 2019 Election

    Quote Originally Posted by downtownone View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Moodib View Post
    Maybe we will get a PST. I'm not holding my breath though.
    That would make Kenney sooo popular...
    assuming they are elected to do the right thing(s) and not the potentially most popular one(s), why not?
    Who decides what is "right"? If Alberta got its spending down to the per-capita levels of provinces like BC, there would be no need for a PST/HST - the answer isn't always to tax more, to take more from people, the answer is to spend less / more responsibly. Less government, more private sector = more wealth for everyone (even the bureaucrats over time).
    Research shows that Alberta spends far more in healthcare than other provinces. Education and other public spending is a little more even. (https://www.bennettjones.com/PreBudgetAnalysis) (https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...ison-1.3996276).

    We are the only province in Canada without the PST revenue stream and it is killing us from balancing our books (see above sources - our revenue . Every 1% is about a billion in revenue. Implementing 3 or 4% would still set us below every other province in Canada. If the UCP is smart, they cut the corporate tax rate, but also implement a smaller PST and kick in more sin tax. It gets them to balance quicker without injecting a bunch of unemployed educated bureaucrats into the unemployment figures. While I'm all for freezing non-front line public services hiring and all pay (government management pay has been frozen since the last conservative government), wide cuts are not the answer because while it may help balance the government books, it will have negative impact on the overall economy. Simply freezing non-essential hiring (and really freezing) along with the revenue adjustments will get you to parity faster, while cutting corporate tax rates still injects investment into Alberta. Relying on resource revenue has shown to be unpredictable for several years - own source revenue offers stable revenues and better predictably from government to predict spending.
    Last edited by Admin; 04-05-2019 at 01:32 PM. Reason: MOVED FROM UCP CATCH ALL THREAD

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill View Post
    Only a guess, but perhaps 20% civil service reduction, say over a two year period. Combination of attrition and layoffs.
    Ones who are left working, maybe they take a 5% pay cut.
    It worked in the past.

    PST is likely the responsible thing, but I just don't see it coming. Too unpopular.
    It needs to be more targeted, because we spend a lot more on healthcare relative to other areas of public spending. We have a young population, so targeted fixes to healthcare are needed, especially in terms of compensation. While government froze other areas of salary increases, certain parts of healthcare still increased.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moodib View Post
    ...
    It needs to be more targeted, because we spend a lot more on healthcare relative to other areas of public spending. We have a young population, so targeted fixes to healthcare are needed, especially in terms of compensation. While government froze other areas of salary increases, certain parts of healthcare still increased.
    emphasis added...

    i hear/see that a lot but alberta's demographics aren't statistically much different than the rest of the country.

    https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-r...chPR=01&B1=All
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Moodib View Post
    ...
    It needs to be more targeted, because we spend a lot more on healthcare relative to other areas of public spending. We have a young population, so targeted fixes to healthcare are needed, especially in terms of compensation. While government froze other areas of salary increases, certain parts of healthcare still increased.
    emphasis added...

    i hear/see that a lot but alberta's demographics aren't statistically much different than the rest of the country.

    https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-r...chPR=01&B1=All
    And it’s the absolute dollar expenditure increases that attract attention, not the relative proportions, so it’s the absolute numbers in the costly age cohorts that need to be looked at.

    Moreover, increasing young populations drive up costs as much or more than old populations through increasing child births. So here we may be facing the consequences of an aging baby boom population coupled with increases in the numbers of child births among the young and net in-migrating population.

    So for every two people our economic boom may have attracted to the province over the past 15 years, there may now be four+ people here needing health services with the family formation causing a huge spike in health care costs.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Moodib View Post
    ...
    It needs to be more targeted, because we spend a lot more on healthcare relative to other areas of public spending. We have a young population, so targeted fixes to healthcare are needed, especially in terms of compensation. While government froze other areas of salary increases, certain parts of healthcare still increased.
    emphasis added...

    i hear/see that a lot but alberta's demographics aren't statistically much different than the rest of the country.

    https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-r...chPR=01&B1=All
    Most of the spending in any area is wages and salaries and Alberta still has much higher than average wages than the rest of Canada. Some of this is the legacy of 2014 and before when high wages in the energy and construction sectors forced every other sector to offer higher wages to compete to attract people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Moodib View Post
    ...
    It needs to be more targeted, because we spend a lot more on healthcare relative to other areas of public spending. We have a young population, so targeted fixes to healthcare are needed, especially in terms of compensation. While government froze other areas of salary increases, certain parts of healthcare still increased.
    emphasis added...

    i hear/see that a lot but alberta's demographics aren't statistically much different than the rest of the country.

    https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-r...chPR=01&B1=All
    13.9 vs 19.1 % is a significant spread. 565,337 people at 13.9% (Alberta) versus 776,830 19.1% (Canada) in Alberta for 65 and over.

  7. #7

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    Does anyone know of a good analysis of if and why Alberta healthcare is more costly than other Canadian provinces?

  8. #8

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    There are many..and they often start with wages.
    Last edited by edmonton daily photo; 03-05-2019 at 08:22 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snail View Post
    Does anyone know of a good analysis of if and why Alberta healthcare is more costly than other Canadian provinces?
    No. My friends live in NS,healthcare in that province is terrible.
    Did you see the young woman with cancer, and how long she waited? It's heart wrenching , but she had to go public, to get the premier of NS attention..sigh..
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  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Snail View Post
    Does anyone know of a good analysis of if and why Alberta healthcare is more costly than other Canadian provinces?
    No. My friends live in NS,healthcare in that province is terrible.
    Did you see the young woman with cancer, and how long she waited? It's heart wrenching , but she had to go public, to get the premier of NS attention..sigh..
    Yes, that’s a good point. Dollar spending per person is a metric, but not all the story. What is covered, the quality of the service etc need to be considered. Have been googling a bit, but still not sure. Maybe someone with more familiarity can point to a good reference.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snail View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Snail View Post
    Does anyone know of a good analysis of if and why Alberta healthcare is more costly than other Canadian provinces?
    No. My friends live in NS,healthcare in that province is terrible.
    Did you see the young woman with cancer, and how long she waited? It's heart wrenching , but she had to go public, to get the premier of NS attention..sigh..
    Yes, thatís a good point. Dollar spending per person is a metric, but not all the story. What is covered, the quality of the service etc need to be considered. Have been googling a bit, but still not sure. Maybe someone with more familiarity can point to a good reference.
    Maybe so, yes..
    Animals are my passion.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill View Post
    Only a guess, but perhaps 20% civil service reduction, say over a two year period. Combination of attrition and layoffs.
    Ones who are left working, maybe they take a 5% pay cut.
    It worked in the past.

    PST is likely the responsible thing, but I just don't see it coming. Too unpopular.

    Kenney has said something to the effect that he might consider a PST. (Theoretically I suppose.)

    I can’t imagine though that he’d have even issued a peep along those lines while campaigning.

    And even Notley recognized that a carbon tax was more palatable to Albertans than a full blown sales tax! Just suggesting a sales tax is political suicide in Alberta.
    Last edited by KC; 04-05-2019 at 07:29 AM.

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