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Thread: Council Chooses Whether to Narrow 109th St in Favour of Dedicated Bike Lanes

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    Default Council Chooses Whether to Narrow 109th St in Favour of Dedicated Bike Lanes

    Tomorrow, Tues 2019.04.23, Council considers whether to modestly disrupt on-street parking for a dozen homeowners or create utter perpetual chaos for south Edmonton commuters that travel the 109th st, 111th street, 76th ave and Fox Drive/Belgravia Rd corridors.

    The decision before council:

    1. extend an EXISTING bike lane on 110th st (that ALREADY runs 8 blocks from Saskatchewan Dr (90th ave) to 82nd ave) southward an additional 6 blocks to 76th avenue.
    2. Remove 12 blocks of traffic lanes on 109th (88th ave to 76th ave) for conversion to use as new exclusive bike lanes.


    110th street is a quiet, residential street with little traffic. There is a barrier at University Avenue (78th ave) that blocks north-south vehicle travel.

    A FEW homes along the proposed 6 block extension on 110th street face the street and stand to to have their on-street parking access affected by the creation of a curbed bike lane, no different than the kilometers of roads within Garneau already afflicted by the blight of such bike lanes. MORE homes on that stretch along face the adjacent avenues and their on-street parking does not stand to be affected. Other significant parts of 110th st are presently already signed as No Parking - on-street parking is not an issue in these locations.

    On the other hand, 109th street is a major north-south arterial corridor, essential to personal, commercial and emergency vehicular traffic.

    109th st serves an area bounded by Gateway Blvd on the east and the Anthony Henday on the west (10 km) from neighborhoods as far south as Rutherford at Ellerslie Rd SW (14 km). Perhaps a total area of over 100 sq km, allowing for boundary contours.

    Mornings and afternoons, commuters from this region make their way north and south along 109th street. During evenings and weekends they travel the route on their way to/from social activities, sporting events, the theatre and prayer services. Ambulances, fire trucks and police vehicles rush along the route on their way to save lives.

    In another era, there would not even be a need to raise an alarm about the possibility of a decision to take capacity AWAY from the 109th st corridor - further narrowing the bottleneck that forms where traffic from Fox Dr/Belgravia Rd/76th Ave merges with traffic from 111th st/109th st. Common sense would settle the matter before it was even raised. A few radical activist bicycle advocates seeking to disrupt the free movement of people, goods and services would be recognized for what they are and their agenda treated accordingly.

    Unfortunately, as demonstrated by council decisions made in this present era, common sense is not so common.

    Photos of 110th St and a map displaying the existing bike lane on 110th st, as well as the extension:











    Last edited by mseaver; 22-04-2019 at 01:16 PM.

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    110st is far more ideal.
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    110st is so much better, they must be crazy seeing gridlock already on 109..


    Unfortunately, as demonstrated by council decisions made in this present era, common sense is not so common.
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    the bike lane only runs one direction on 110 right now, would the proposal see it twinned all the way? if not, then 110 st isn't an option. that's not an AAA corridor.\

    of course, people would have to actually ride their bikes regularly on this route to know how much better 109 would be for cyclists... unless you make 110 st a cycling freeway the entire way. the stops at every intersection are ridiculous.
    you missed when time and life shook hands and said goodbye.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bicycles View Post
    the bike lane only runs one direction ...

    ... the stops at every intersection are ridiculous.
    bicycles, you crack me up.

    When did any cyclist in Garneau ever pay attention to a stop sign or a directional arrow on a one-way road.

    Scofflaw cyclists in Edmonton routinely ignore traffic laws and demonstrate little sense of self-preservation in choices not regulated by law. A short period of observation on any street corner will produce numerous examples.

    The City does not hold cyclists to account through enforcement and when bad Darwinian things happen as a result, the chorus crys, "don't blame the victim."

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    Riddle:

    Why do Edmontonian cyclists ride the wrong way on one-way streets ?

    No stop signs !

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    While bHenderson's (Ward 8 ) "Let's throttle 109th St with bike lanes" cheer-leading comes as no surprise, a troubling aspect to the decision before Council is that mWalters (Ward 10) keeps talking like 109th St is a viable selection.

    What? mWalter's very own constituency is due to be prominently and permanently disadvantaged by any move to REDUCE capacity on 109th St.

    mWalters was elected to his first term in 2013 in no small part because of his pre-election commitment to REMOVING the bike lane on 43rd Ave, a promise on which he fulfilled - to great acclaim !

    However, still in his first term, mWalters actively SUPPORTED the bike lane boondoggle in Mount Pleasant on 106th St. For those with short memories, mWalters arranged for 106th, a major North-South thoroughfare to be turned into a one-way route to accomodate a bike lane and the self-interest of a few residents. This at the expense of commuters and the east portion of the Mount Pleasant community where traffic was redirected through during the short-lived closure. The expensive, ill-thought-out experiment ended after six months when mWalters could no longer withstand public outcry from residents and drivers. Cost the City millions of dollars.

    One would think mWalters would bring those hard-learned 106th St lessons to the discussion for 109th St. Unfortunately, mWalters has demonstrated bad instinct, poor judgement and stubborn unwillingness to admit his mistakes on several other occasions - before flip-flopping to embrace the outcome he should have been in favour of from the outset.
    Last edited by mseaver; 22-04-2019 at 03:54 PM.

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    if cyclists are using the road different than intended, isn't that just the market correcting some planners/our societies mistake?

    darwinism isn't based off individual choice, it's based on group survival, don't use terms you don't understand
    you missed when time and life shook hands and said goodbye.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bicycles View Post
    if cyclists are using the road different than intended, isn't that just the market correcting some planners/our societies mistake?
    Yep, you clearly ARE an Edmonton Scofflaw bicyclist.

    Edit: Reduce breadth of brushstrokes.
    Last edited by mseaver; 22-04-2019 at 04:09 PM.

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    very nuanced approached. you've obviously thought long and hard about this.
    you missed when time and life shook hands and said goodbye.

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    Just look at this guys post history. Hates bicycles!

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    I think 110 Street is a great option, meeting up with 83 and 76 Avenue.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Cat View Post
    I think 110 Street is a great option, meeting up with 83 and 76 Avenue.
    " ... meeting up with [existing East/West dedicated bike lanes on] 83 and 76 Avenue."

    Not to mention the existing bike lane running along 88th Ave, between 110th St and the intersection of 109th, Sask Dr, Walterdale Bridge and the Highlevel Bridge.

    Then there are the TWO existing 2-way bike lanes that run east from 109th St on both 81st Ave and 80th Ave. Traffic lights are already in place at the intersection of 109th St & 80th Ave - it would be simples to extend the 80th Ave bike lane west to tie into a N/S route on 110th St. Add the same pedestrian/bicyclist sensing technology used at 109th St and 83rd Ave to provide no-touch 30 second crossing activation.

    And of course there is the existing E/W bike lane on 76th Ave. Extending the existing N/S bike lane on 110th St south from Whyte would lead it to tie-in to the E/W route on 76th,

    Last edited by mseaver; 23-04-2019 at 02:10 PM.

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    Have to agree. 110st is safer, more quite and a pleasant ride. Leave 109st for cars, trucks and buses.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bicycles View Post
    the bike lane only runs one direction on 110 right now, would the proposal see it twinned all the way? if not, then 110 st isn't an option. that's not an AAA corridor.\

    of course, people would have to actually ride their bikes regularly on this route to know how much better 109 would be for cyclists... unless you make 110 st a cycling freeway the entire way. the stops at every intersection are ridiculous.
    This. Has to be bi-directional on 110th to work, plus the traffic signage would have to change to more closely mirror 109th's lack of N/S stop signs.

    Otherwise you're not creating successful bike infrastructure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Channing View Post
    Has to be bi-directional on 110th to work, plus the traffic signage would have to change to more closely mirror 109th's lack of N/S stop signs.

    Otherwise you're not creating successful bike infrastructure.
    Ahh, yes. The self-righteous entitlement of the radicalized activist bicyclist. Unless the wind is at your back and the path is downhill ...

    Look at the photos in the first post. 110th St is so quiet, there is no need for the curbs and forest-like clutter of signage - at least not for sensible people.

    If bHenderson was a better councilman for Ward 8, the existing bike lane along 110th between 82nd and 90th Aves would be well-paved and swept, instead of the rock & gravel-strewn, cratered moonscape that it actually is as I compose my post. This would make the existing bike lane actually usable instead of a taunting open sore for motorists forced to navigate streets made narrower and share the portion allocated to vehicles with cyclists unwilling to dare riding in the unmaintained bike lane. (Bewilders me why cyclists do not call bHenderson and 311 to complain & demand bike lane repairs and maintenance in Garneau.)

    Now look at these following photos of the community EYE SORES that 76th Ave and 83rd Ave have become, thanks to the implementation of dedicated bike lanes along these routes. (If you look closely, you might spot the three other cyclists that were using these dedicated bike lanes today (2019.04.23) between 10-12 AM on the nicest spring day Edmonton has enjoyed yet in 2019 while I was making these images.)

    76th Ave





    83rd Ave









    "... the traffic signage would have to change ..."

    That is just bicyclist code for "I want the right to breeze through every intersection while those travelling perpendicular to my path wait for me to pass."

    You know what? I am willing to appease this conceit of you and your ilk.

    Go ahead. Erect stop signs for E/W traffic at each avenue along 110th St - with the exception of the key corridors at 76th, 82nd and 87th avenues. Enable bicycles to travel N/S, unobstructed. If bicyclists blow through Stop Lights at 82nd and 87th. - seize their bikes and put each week's accumulation in a crusher at Winston Churchill Square on Saturday and sell tickets to view the spectacle.
    Last edited by mseaver; 23-04-2019 at 03:20 PM.

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    I admire your dedication. But secretly it appears we agree on good traffic controlled intersections. 76 ave is a major route and the signs are just a product of traffic laws. Shouldn't be needed on 110 st. If prioritizing bikes, use bike prioritizing intersections. I agree, stop signs for East-West and bike/pedestrian quick-light-change buttons at major intersections like Whyte and 76 ave. I think we should emulate the 10th Ave bike-way in Vancouver.

    My only issue with 110th is where does it go south of 76th ave? The City has always had a rather piecemeal plan. Also, we have called / written to Henderson and Staff and got huge upgrades and cleaning done that is trying to happen now as opposed to when they were first built. It's been night and day on 106 st. Really bad in about 2013?
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    And I too agree with you, though ugly they do make biking easier and save conflicts and encourage more users. 106 st is quite busy at rush hour.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GenWhy? View Post
    My only issue with 110th is where does it go south of 76th ave?
    Where does 110th St go?

    Well to the same place that 109th St has to go south of where it ends (regardless whether you choose to define this as 61st Ave or 52nd Ave) of course - ie: over to 111th St.

    The difference being that the circumstances for such a transition are MUCH MUCH MORE CHALLENGING at the south end of 109th St than they are at the south end of 110th St.

    Discuss.

    109th St Route
    It is reasonable to eliminate 52nd Ave, the actual end point of 109th St, from consideration. If you need an explanation as to why, then you haven't been following along.

    This puts us at 61st Ave. As 109th St and 111th St converge from N/S on 61st Ave, to continue travelling N/S you have to simultaneously move 2 streets over (109th/111th) while crossing diagonally through the considerable E/W traffic on 61st Ave. If you are unfamiliar with the experience, I highly recommend it: especially between 7:00-9:30 AM and 3:30-6:30 PM. Nothing like cutting across 61st Ave N-bound, only to be blocked mid-lane by traffic ahead backed up as someone up at the line-up for MacDonalds does not have room to fully enter the parking lot.

    What about 57th Ave, someone asks ? Well, what is the point of moving between 109th/111th Sts here, if you live on the west side of 111th St? (See LRT remark below.)

    110th St Route
    By contrast, there is NONE of the foregoing drama where 110th St and 111th converge at 76th Ave. Upon reaching 76th Ave from either direction, it is a doddle to slip one block E/W and then continue your N/S journey.

    (It would be EVEN EASIER, not to mention safer to make this E/W transition at 78th Ave (Univ Ave). But 78th is on a slight diagonal and bicyclists can be expected to whine about the inconvenience of having to travel a few inches in the opposite direction along this diagonal street.)

    When travelling south from 76th Ave on 111th St, aside from crossing 72nd Ave where there is presently a Cross Walk, bicyclists have free peddling along quiet residential streets and lanes to 61st Ave.

    At 61st Ave, bicyclists have the option of whether to continue along the East side or West side of 111th St - no small consideration of course because the LRT tracks run down the centre of the N/S lanes of 111th St. (In case you are particularly dull - this helps because if you choose wisely at 61st Ave, then you don't get stuck further south waiting for the LRT to pass in order to cross 111th ST E/W.)

    Quote Originally Posted by GenWhy?
    The City has always had a rather piecemeal plan.
    Fiddlesticks.

    Back in the day, the City built infrastructure as and where it was required.

    For over 50 yrs, there has been a perfectly serviceable bicycle corridor for residents of communities located along 43rd Ave to travel north to 82nd Ave and into the University, using 111th St and 112th St.

    A lasting tribute to Jan Reimer's time in office is the conservatively elegant and very functional pedway over Belgravia Rd which was erected as new residential development to the SW increased traffic on BG Rd to the point where a crosswalk no longer sufficed. The pedway eliminated the possibility of confrontation between pedestrians/bicyclists and vehicles instead of promoting it, the way that current thinking in urban development does.

    Together with unhindered passage through part of the UofA farm, the Reimer pedway opened up access for bicyclists from neighborhoods located south along 122nd St and 119th st to travel freely northward to campus along 116th St or Sask Dr as they saw fit.

    These are but a few examples disproving the piecemeal remark. Your dismissal of past bike route development is a disservice to the memory and legacy of Tooker Gomberg's achievements within and outside of Council.

    Quote Originally Posted by GenWhy?
    Also, we have called / written to Henderson and Staff and got huge upgrades and cleaning done that is trying to happen now as opposed to when they were first built. It's been night and day on 106 st. Really bad in about 2013?
    If you are referring to the Vanity Project constructed along 106th from Sask Dr to 61st Ave, then we are WORLDS APART in what we are talking about.

    Look at the pictures in the first post of the existing bike lane on 110th St. Have you travelled that route this year? Rocks and gravel make the stretch between 82nd and 86th a wipe-out threat for weak riders on ribbed tires. In addition, N from 86th Ave, pot holes and washboard pavement scare riders away from the bike lane into the only marginally better vehicle lane.

    Thanks to the fact that there is only a painted line on the road, full size sweepers and other repair equipment could easily and cheaply make short work of the maintenance and repairs necessary to return the existing 110th St bike to a fully satisfactory state.

    But no.

    Have you moved around on the streets of Garneau at all ? What a disaster. My favorite worst case is 84th Ave between 109th St and 110th St. A resident on the block clamoured for those euphemistically-named "Traffic-Calming" islands to dissuade Community Hall beach volleyball participants. The serpentine path resulted in funneling ALL traffic - bike, car, commercial truck - through a tight fixed route, with the consequence that ALL road wear occurs along that single narrow path. Picture gnarly moguls or a bad stretch along the Paris-Dakar route.

    This section is perhaps the worst in the community, but many others are not much better.

    And that is a reality of transportation within/through bHenderson's Ward 8.
    Last edited by mseaver; 24-04-2019 at 04:21 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GenWhy? View Post
    And I too agree with you, though ugly [signs] do make biking easier and save conflicts and encourage more users.
    When THAT many signs are required, it is a sure, uhm, sign that the situation is seriously out of order.

    (Incidently. Total cost of ownership for each sign consisting of a base, a post and one placard is in excess of perhaps $1,500 when planning, discussion, purchasing and installation is taken into account. More stack more placards on the pole, add a reflective column, maybe include a break-away base and the price rockets further upward. When you do a rough count of the signs appearing in the photographs above and multiply the result by my per-sign estimate above (or whatever one you prefer to use instead.) The 106th St/76th Ave project costs for signage alone are eye-watering.)

    Quote Originally Posted by GenWhy?
    106 st is quite busy at rush hour.
    Wrong.

    It is not busy, it is CONGESTED. There's a difference.

    A traffic count today would reveal that numbers of vehicles passing E/W & N/S through the intersection of 106th St/76th Ave are down significantly from what the numbers were a few years ago when there were no bike lanes, traffic-calming islands or 30km School Zones and there was a 4-way Stop instead of traffic lights.

    These days, drivers who can avoid routes that pass through that intersection do so.

    Just don't try to tell me that this area is busy.

    Two perfectly good corridors strangled. Mission accompished, bHenderson and your gentrifying Queen Alexandra special interest group.

    By the way Gen Why?, are you in the mood for a quiz?

    If so. How many bicycles do you think travelled along 106th St today (2019.04.24) in the vicinity of 68th-66th Aves during the period between 7:50 and 8:50 AM? In each direction. Bonus points for accurate counts on skateboard numbers.

  21. #21

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    As a driver myself, and I assume you are most of the time too, I get that traffic in Edmonton is increasing and roads get a good amount of wear-and-tear with our weather. We definitely agree.

    All good reasons for more density, better transit, and all-mode-friendly infrastructure. It'll make our commute much better.
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    ^^ So traffic calming measures calmed traffic? Inconceivable!!

    I'd be the first to agree that the 76 ave and 106st lanes are far from perfect, but at least on 76 ave they are far preferable to what was there before.

    I'm not particularly concerned about where the bike lane goes between 109 and 110, but from experiencing 109st as a driver I'm convinced that it desperately needs to be anything other than 7-lanes with no refuges or medians, traffic levels are well within what two through lanes each way plus left turn bays should handle, and that whether for a bike lane, boulevards or wider sidewalks the underutilized curbside parking/bus/confusion lanes on 109st need to go.
    There can only be one.

  23. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by mseaver View Post

    Ahh, yes. The self-righteous entitlement of the radicalized activist bicyclist. Unless the wind is at your back and the path is downhill ...

    ***snipped photos***



    "... the traffic signage would have to change ..."

    That is just bicyclist code for "I want the right to breeze through every intersection while those travelling perpendicular to my path wait for me to pass."

    You know what? I am willing to appease this conceit of you and your ilk.

    Go ahead. Erect stop signs for E/W traffic at each avenue along 110th St - with the exception of the key corridors at 76th, 82nd and 87th avenues. Enable bicycles to travel N/S, unobstructed. If bicyclists blow through Stop Lights at 82nd and 87th. - seize their bikes and put each week's accumulation in a crusher at Winston Churchill Square on Saturday and sell tickets to view the spectacle.


    I have to assume that you wouldn't be in favour of stop signs every block on 109st, so why would you think it's good enough for a bike thoroughfare?

    Re: Blowing through lights, you might be surprised to know that drivers and cyclists run lights and roll stop signs at roughly the same rates and there's no reason to believe that would be different here - and that there are jurisdictions that allow cyclists to only yield at stop signs and to proceed when safe at red lights to no discernible ill effect.

    Any just crushing program would of course have to include autos, but I suspect that even a day's worth wouldn't come close to fitting in Churchill Square.
    There can only be one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mseaver View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Channing View Post
    Has to be bi-directional on 110th to work, plus the traffic signage would have to change to more closely mirror 109th's lack of N/S stop signs.

    Otherwise you're not creating successful bike infrastructure.
    Ahh, yes. The self-righteous entitlement of the radicalized activist bicyclist. Unless the wind is at your back and the path is downhill ...

    Look at the photos in the first post. 110th St is so quiet, there is no need for the curbs and forest-like clutter of signage - at least not for sensible people.

    If bHenderson was a better councilman for Ward 8, the existing bike lane along 110th between 82nd and 90th Aves would be well-paved and swept, instead of the rock & gravel-strewn, cratered moonscape that it actually is as I compose my post. This would make the existing bike lane actually usable instead of a taunting open sore for motorists forced to navigate streets made narrower and share the portion allocated to vehicles with cyclists unwilling to dare riding in the unmaintained bike lane. (Bewilders me why cyclists do not call bHenderson and 311 to complain & demand bike lane repairs and maintenance in Garneau.)

    Now look at these following photos of the community EYE SORES that 76th Ave and 83rd Ave have become, thanks to the implementation of dedicated bike lanes along these routes. (If you look closely, you might spot the three other cyclists that were using these dedicated bike lanes today (2019.04.23) between 10-12 AM on the nicest spring day Edmonton has enjoyed yet in 2019 while I was making these images.)

    76th Ave





    83rd Ave









    "... the traffic signage would have to change ..."

    That is just bicyclist code for "I want the right to breeze through every intersection while those travelling perpendicular to my path wait for me to pass."

    You know what? I am willing to appease this conceit of you and your ilk.

    Go ahead. Erect stop signs for E/W traffic at each avenue along 110th St - with the exception of the key corridors at 76th, 82nd and 87th avenues. Enable bicycles to travel N/S, unobstructed. If bicyclists blow through Stop Lights at 82nd and 87th. - seize their bikes and put each week's accumulation in a crusher at Winston Churchill Square on Saturday and sell tickets to view the spectacle.
    That signage is something else, I seriously don't know how anyone navigates along those roads..
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  25. #25

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    Drivers Think Bikers Are Less Than Human, Survey Says

    https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/a...an-survey-says
    I am in no way entitled to your opinion...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    Drivers Think Bikers Are Less Than Human, Survey Says


    https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/a...an-survey-says
    Well thats sad.. I think most bike riders are pretty good, but there are quite a few that think they own the road/pavement. Car vs bike, no chance, that's the saddest part..
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    Since no other contributer here has taken notice, it falls to me to make the announcement.

    Hell froze over on Tuesday.
    Edmonton City Council Aims at Foot, Misses
    Although Shaken, bHenderson Vows to Recover and Try Again
    By I. Bickerstaff
    The Edmonton Tatler 2019.04.24

    On Tuesday, despite determination and conviction, Edmonton City Council did not succeed at its most recent attempt to seriously wound quality of life for large numbers of Edmontonians. Since Council has demonstrated consistent marksmanship in past such efforts, it is suspected that an involuntary spasm occured at the decisive moment this time, spoiling Council's aim.

    Though trapped at close range and centered in Council's cross-hairs, the target subsequently escaped.

    bHenderson is understood to be seeking volunteers for the purpose of locating the prey again for another attempt at dispatching it.

    In all sincerity, I offer my surprised, but heartfelt thanks for the outcome on this matter. Commuters throughout the SW owe a debt of gratitude to those in the room who provided the adult supervision necessary to ensure that common sense prevailed.

    ( tCartmell (Ward 9 / Urban Planning Committee), am I looking at you ? If so, have you considered running for mayor next term ? )

    For the love of Arianna Grande, please let this be a turning point in Edmonton Civic Affairs and not an anomaly.

  28. #28

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    I am against narrowing any major North-South roads for bike lanes in this city. It's challenging enough driving in a North-South direction without the city removing more traffic lanes.

    109 Street is perfectly busy and congested enough.

  29. #29

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    You missed all this info, Meazer:

    "That Administration provide further information on the feasibility of building separated cycling facilities, or improving cycling connections to 109 Street, including possible alignment and conflicts with Envision 109, the Bus Network redesign and Infill Roadmap 2.0, and return in second quarter 2019.
    Executive Summary Protected bike lanes are feasible on 109 Street between Saskatchewan Drive and 76 Avenue, but are not in alignment with the 2009 Bike Transportation Plan and 2016 Main Streets Guideline. It is projected that these lanes would have significant impacts to traffic patterns affecting local communities and transit operations and would result in greater risk to cyclists.
    Implementation would require a reduction in the number of motor vehicle lanes from six to four. Total costs for bike lanes and signal upgrades on 109 Street are estimated at $2.4 Million (Strategic; -50%/+100%). For comparison, bike lanes on 110 Street are estimated at $1.2 Million (Strategic; -50%/+100%).
    Garneau neighbourhood renewal will include new bike infrastructure, including a bike lane on 110 Street, as outlined in the August 14, 2018 Urban Planning Committee report CR_5440 Southside Bike Network. A review of potential connections to 109 Street indicates that improved bike connections could be implemented at 88 Avenue, 83 Avenue, 80 Avenue, and 76 Avenue and coordinated with the​ Garneau neighbourhood renewal project. ​The quality of the areas for pedestrians along 109 Street will be improved over time through the implementation of the Envision 109 project. " (http://sirepub.edmonton.ca/sirepub/cache/2/ilkwrfxldufuvclxslenmv4i/83262104252019105842311.PDF)

    On April 23, the Urban Planning Committee reviewed a report that was initiated last summer. That was brought to council. What you will still see is a future change to the road make-up of 109 street in the decade or so to come no matter what.

    Again, I admire your dedication. Bike lanes will be built, somewhere that makes sense, with lights / signage that favours them along that route.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    I am against narrowing any major North-South roads for bike lanes in this city. It's challenging enough driving in a North-South direction without the city removing more traffic lanes.

    109 Street is perfectly busy and congested enough.
    You think driving N-S is challenging, try biking N-S if your destination requires crossing one of our east-west freeways, or the river. Compared to cycling, driving is a breeze.
    There can only be one.

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