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Thread: Death of the Carbon Tax: What then?

  1. #1

    Default Death of the Carbon Tax: What then?

    Assuming the UCP wins, the Carbon Tax will be gone in days.

    Well, not really as it will really be:

    The Carbon Tax is dead, long live the Carbon Tax.





    Anyway, the retail portion of the tax will be gone in days. There’s no excuse to not have this move all planned out years in advance to now so gone it will be .)




    So, what will be the effect? (What harm and good has it done to date and how soon until a complete reversal takes place?).

    Short term effect vs long term effect?

    Impact on improving:

    Savings?

    Investment?

    Retail spending?

    Other?

  2. #2

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    This is the part that gets me the most. If the UCP cancel the carbon tax, all the money that Alberta generated from Carbon Tax is no more, and instead all goes to Ottawa.

    Jason Kenney really wants to send all our money out east. First with extra billions in equalization payments, now he wants to give away our carbon taxes as well. Next he'll give all his rich buddies tax breaks, and cut our social services and privatize our healthcare into a two tiered system, where if you have tons of money, you get to bump ahead of everyone else..... Can't wait.

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    Ummm, the curtailment of the provincial carbon tax will lower prices for a day or two, until Trudeau steps in with a federal carbon tax - ala Manitoba, Ontario and N.B.

    Whether that's constitutional or not, won't stop him and it will be up to the Supreme Court ultimately to decide.

    It's just theatre of the absurd by Kenny.
    ... gobsmacked

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    Jason Kenny made his position clear, just like other provincial leaders in Canada. They would/ will scrap the carbon tax, despite the Fed then imposing a carbon tax on the province. This is what Jason Kenny campaigned on, you can hardly blame him for carrying out what he was elected to do.

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    Scrap it for domestic, but not big polluters. Shell etc are already on board, but a carbon tax on home heating is [email protected] My mil is cold, but can't afford to turn up the heat, wrong, very very wrong!
    How will a carbon tax change peoples driving habits when they have no buses, no lrt? It's a very unfair tax, and I'd like it gone.
    Let Loblaws pay, oops wait, no they get free freezers..sheesh!
    Animals are my passion.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by McBoo View Post
    Ummm, the curtailment of the provincial carbon tax will lower prices for a day or two, until Trudeau steps in with a federal carbon tax - ala Manitoba, Ontario and N.B.

    Whether that's constitutional or not, won't stop him and it will be up to the Supreme Court ultimately to decide.

    It's just theatre of the absurd by Kenny.
    Section 91 of the Constitution says the federal government can raise money "by any mode or system of taxation."

    https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-age...-myths.html#m1

    Meanwhile, Doug Ford's complaint seems to be that the government will be able to tell you were you can live or drive under a carbon tax.
    The federal government will end up with the power to regulate almost every facet of life — such as when you can drive or where you can live — if its law aimed at curbing harmful greenhouse gas emissions is allowed to stand, Ontario's top court heard Monday.


    Ottawa's climate change law is so broad, a lawyer for the Ontario government told the start of a four-day Appeal Court hearing, that it would give the federal government powers that would be destabilizing to Canada in the name of curbing the cumulative effects of global warming emissions.


    "They could regulate where you live, how often you drive your car," Josh Hunter told the five-justice panel. "It would unbalance the federation."

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...-tax-1.5096256

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Scrap it for domestic, but not big polluters. Shell etc are already on board, but a carbon tax on home heating is [email protected] My mil is cold, but can't afford to turn up the heat, wrong, very very wrong!
    How will a carbon tax change peoples driving habits when they have no buses, no lrt? It's a very unfair tax, and I'd like it gone.
    Let Loblaws pay, oops wait, no they get free freezers..sheesh!
    So you like asymmetric taxation? (It’s not like progressive taxation, this large emitter bias in the tax picks sacrificial lambs.)

    Why should the big polluters get hit while others get off free?

    The rebates should more than make up for those that can turn up the heat. However many others can easily afford to pay the tax on their luxury trucks and SUVs and giant homes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Scrap it for domestic, but not big polluters. Shell etc are already on board, but a carbon tax on home heating is [email protected] My mil is cold, but can't afford to turn up the heat, wrong, very very wrong!
    How will a carbon tax change peoples driving habits when they have no buses, no lrt? It's a very unfair tax, and I'd like it gone.
    Let Loblaws pay, oops wait, no they get free freezers..sheesh!
    So you like asymmetric taxation? (It’s not like progressive taxation, this large emitter bias in the tax picks sacrificial lambs.)

    Why should the big polluters get hit while others get off free?

    The rebates should more than make up for those that can turn up the heat. However many others can easily afford to pay the tax on their luxury trucks and SUVs and giant homes.
    The rebate covers nothing, and it's sad people buy into that BS!
    Animals are my passion.

  9. #9

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    Wait... so if a person can barely heat their home... it's the Carbon Tax's fault? I'm confused here.
    Live and love... your neighbourhood.

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Scrap it for domestic, but not big polluters. Shell etc are already on board, but a carbon tax on home heating is [email protected] My mil is cold, but can't afford to turn up the heat, wrong, very very wrong!
    How will a carbon tax change peoples driving habits when they have no buses, no lrt? It's a very unfair tax, and I'd like it gone.
    Let Loblaws pay, oops wait, no they get free freezers..sheesh!
    So you like asymmetric taxation? (It’s not like progressive taxation, this large emitter bias in the tax picks sacrificial lambs.)

    Why should the big polluters get hit while others get off free?

    The rebates should more than make up for those that can turn up the heat. However many others can easily afford to pay the tax on their luxury trucks and SUVs and giant homes.
    The rebate covers nothing, and it's sad people buy into that BS!
    The rebate provides a rebate, therefore it covers at least a portion of the tax.

    That's two button calculator math. I believe in that. It's sad don't believe in that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Scrap it for domestic, but not big polluters. Shell etc are already on board, but a carbon tax on home heating is [email protected] My mil is cold, but can't afford to turn up the heat, wrong, very very wrong!
    How will a carbon tax change peoples driving habits when they have no buses, no lrt? It's a very unfair tax, and I'd like it gone.
    Let Loblaws pay, oops wait, no they get free freezers..sheesh!
    So you like asymmetric taxation? (It’s not like progressive taxation, this large emitter bias in the tax picks sacrificial lambs.)

    Why should the big polluters get hit while others get off free?

    The rebates should more than make up for those that can turn up the heat. However many others can easily afford to pay the tax on their luxury trucks and SUVs and giant homes.
    The rebate covers nothing, and it's sad people buy into that BS!
    What is really sad is people like you who simply will not listen to reason. Many people on this forum have tried to engage you in a meaningful discussion but you steady refuse to budge from your original position and will go to the grave repeating the same mantra. What is really alarming is there are many people like you.
    “Canada is the only country in the world that knows how to live without an identity,”-Marshall McLuhan

  12. #12

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    I knew people who refused to apply for the GST rebate when it was introduced. They claimed that they didn't believe in the GST and therefore they also refused to have anything to do with it.

    Some people act against their own self-interest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Scrap it for domestic, but not big polluters. Shell etc are already on board, but a carbon tax on home heating is [email protected] My mil is cold, but can't afford to turn up the heat, wrong, very very wrong!
    How will a carbon tax change peoples driving habits when they have no buses, no lrt? It's a very unfair tax, and I'd like it gone.
    Let Loblaws pay, oops wait, no they get free freezers..sheesh!
    So you like asymmetric taxation? (It’s not like progressive taxation, this large emitter bias in the tax picks sacrificial lambs.)

    Why should the big polluters get hit while others get off free?

    The rebates should more than make up for those that can turn up the heat. However many others can easily afford to pay the tax on their luxury trucks and SUVs and giant homes.
    The rebate covers nothing, and it's sad people buy into that BS!
    What is really sad is people like you who simply will not listen to reason. Many people on this forum have tried to engage you in a meaningful discussion but you steady refuse to budge from your original position and will go to the grave repeating the same mantra. What is really alarming is there are many people like you.
    Good. Hopefully they all vote UCP, and Notley gets kicked out. Because people like you are so stupid to believe the carbon tax works, when it does nothing. When you're in your eighties and worry about turning up the heat, like my mother in law, then we'll talk. Until then, you pay the stupid tax, and keep drinking that koolaid...
    Yes I refuse to budge, why would I.? I know many smart people that think differently than you, maybe you need to change, because to me, you're alarming!
    Animals are my passion.

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    If the rebate goes to 2/3 of the population, all you’re telling me is that 1/3 of the population is responsible for carbon emissions.

    I disagree. Further to that point, provide me with evidence that the carbon tax has actually reduced carbon output.

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    ^^,^ You clearly do not understand the concept. Reducing consumption of carbon producing activities is the only way to reduce emissions. Requiring sedan cars to reduce to greater degree than trucks only encourages people to drive trucks. Placing a carbon tax on all vehicles makes individuals question their need for a truck.
    So you decide you like driving a truck so next time you buy a new vehicle you buy another truck pay the tax but you get a rebate at the end of the. Its a wash. Your who is a little bit brighter thinks next time a buy a new vehicle a will buy one that is more fuel efficient pays less carbon tax and gets the same rebate you do, everything else being equal.
    No biggy you figure until they increase the tax again which if they follow through with it they will and the reason it is introduced gradually is to allow people/economy to to make the short medium and long range decisions. What kind of light bulbs to buy what new vehicle or if I am buying a new home do I go with triple glazed windows ultra high efficiency furnace etc.
    Whether or not you “believe “ in global warming if you want to do something about it this is the most effective way.
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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Scrap it for domestic, but not big polluters. Shell etc are already on board, but a carbon tax on home heating is [email protected] My mil is cold, but can't afford to turn up the heat, wrong, very very wrong!
    How will a carbon tax change peoples driving habits when they have no buses, no lrt? It's a very unfair tax, and I'd like it gone.
    Let Loblaws pay, oops wait, no they get free freezers..sheesh!
    So you like asymmetric taxation? (It’s not like progressive taxation, this large emitter bias in the tax picks sacrificial lambs.)

    Why should the big polluters get hit while others get off free?

    The rebates should more than make up for those that can turn up the heat. However many others can easily afford to pay the tax on their luxury trucks and SUVs and giant homes.
    The rebate covers nothing, and it's sad people buy into that BS!
    What is really sad is people like you who simply will not listen to reason. Many people on this forum have tried to engage you in a meaningful discussion but you steady refuse to budge from your original position and will go to the grave repeating the same mantra. What is really alarming is there are many people like you.
    Good. Hopefully they all vote UCP, and Notley gets kicked out. Because people like you are so stupid to believe the carbon tax works, when it does nothing. When you're in your eighties and worry about turning up the heat, like my mother in law, then we'll talk. Until then, you pay the stupid tax, and keep drinking that koolaid...
    Yes I refuse to budge, why would I.? I know many smart people that think differently than you, maybe you need to change, because to me, you're alarming!
    You say the carbon tax doesn’t work but your mother in law is worried about turning up the heat. Not an ideal situation but you have to agree it works.
    “Canada is the only country in the world that knows how to live without an identity,”-Marshall McLuhan

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Scrap it for domestic, but not big polluters. Shell etc are already on board, but a carbon tax on home heating is [email protected] My mil is cold, but can't afford to turn up the heat, wrong, very very wrong!
    How will a carbon tax change peoples driving habits when they have no buses, no lrt? It's a very unfair tax, and I'd like it gone.
    Let Loblaws pay, oops wait, no they get free freezers..sheesh!
    So you like asymmetric taxation? (It’s not like progressive taxation, this large emitter bias in the tax picks sacrificial lambs.)

    Why should the big polluters get hit while others get off free?

    The rebates should more than make up for those that can turn up the heat. However many others can easily afford to pay the tax on their luxury trucks and SUVs and giant homes.
    The rebate covers nothing, and it's sad people buy into that BS!
    What is really sad is people like you who simply will not listen to reason. Many people on this forum have tried to engage you in a meaningful discussion but you steady refuse to budge from your original position and will go to the grave repeating the same mantra. What is really alarming is there are many people like you.
    Good. Hopefully they all vote UCP, and Notley gets kicked out. Because people like you are so stupid to believe the carbon tax works, when it does nothing. When you're in your eighties and worry about turning up the heat, like my mother in law, then we'll talk. Until then, you pay the stupid tax, and keep drinking that koolaid...
    Yes I refuse to budge, why would I.? I know many smart people that think differently than you, maybe you need to change, because to me, you're alarming!
    You say the carbon tax doesn’t work but your mother in law is worried about turning up the heat. Not an ideal situation but you have to agree it works.
    Especially when it's -30. Give your head a shake!
    Is that what you'd like for your mother?..wow
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  18. #18

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    The power of fake news. Exactly like people that refuse to get their kids vaccinated.

    As a kid I remember hearing of people that didn’t want to earn more money because they’d get pushed into a higher tax bracket - as if there was a 100%+ bracket.

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    Ignorance controls our destiny.

  20. #20

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    The carbon tax was nice economic theory, you put prices high enough, and people change their behavior. They drive less, they buy smaller autos, they heat their homes less. Reality is very different though, most people won't buy a smaller vehicle, or live in a cold house, or pay a fortune for insulation. So, the carbon tax has to go to ridiculously high levels before that behavior changes. Big oil loved the carbon tax because it put all the pressure on consumers to change, the costs were mostly flow through. It didn't work though, and consumers would never have tolerated the level of carbon tax needed to make a difference. The answer lies in where the UCP is going - more investments in technology funded not by consumers, but by big business via the emitters tax. The answer/future lies in technology so we can consume at current lifestyle but emit less (or alternatively, directly impacting the climate via atmospheric engineering), not in reducing consumption which will never be tolerated once people understand the impact on not being able to travel overseas, ski, etc.
    Last edited by downtownone; 16-04-2019 at 07:58 AM.

  21. #21

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    How do you propose that we fund those technologies? Has the government ever been good at picking the right ones?

    At the very least a modest carbon tax provides a limited incentive to conserve now, an economic advantage to low-carbon technologies without the bureaucracy and inefficiencies of subsidies and regulations, and a revenue source for supporting transitions and technologies where necessary.

    Skiing and international travel are out of reach to many today, and besides the cheapest travellers (think college backpackers) only a small fraction of the cost of both activities is the actual carbon-intensive travel.

    Gas costs me ~$100 for a round trip to jasper will a full minivan. 2-days on the hill will cost $1000+ and 2 nights in a suite will be another $600+...and neither the lift tickets nor accommodation costs are much affected.

    Carbon tax could be $400/ton for $3.00/l gas before it makes a substantial dent in that equation.
    And you can be sure that I would be looking for the most efficient vehicle long before that.
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    Eliminate alberta carbon tax, receive federal carbon tax.
    either way it's coming.
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  23. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by downtownone View Post
    The carbon tax was nice economic theory, you put prices high enough, and people change their behavior. They drive less, they buy smaller autos, they heat their homes less. Reality is very different though, most people won't buy a smaller vehicle, or live in a cold house, or pay a fortune for insulation. So, the carbon tax has to go to ridiculously high levels before that behavior changes. Big oil loved the carbon tax because it put all the pressure on consumers to change, the costs were mostly flow through. It didn't work though, and consumers would never have tolerated the level of carbon tax needed to make a difference. The answer lies in where the UCP is going - more investments in technology funded not by consumers, but by big business via the emitters tax. The answer/future lies in technology so we can consume at current lifestyle but emit less (or alternatively, directly impacting the climate via atmospheric engineering), not in reducing consumption which will never be tolerated once people understand the impact on not being able to travel overseas, ski, etc.
    Same argument applies to a lot of things.

    Add a safety regulation (say sprinklers in houses) or say add 1% to GST, an increase to minimum wage, even just a royalty review and huge numbers of people jump up and down screaming in panic that it will stop purchases, stop investment, kill jobs etc.

    Do higher costs cause higher prices? Do higher prices reduce purchases? Do fewer purchases kill jobs?

    Only those that can’t think for themselves blindly believe all those BS platitudes.

  24. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill View Post
    Eliminate alberta carbon tax, receive federal carbon tax.
    either way it's coming.
    At least with the Federal one, most of it is rebated. And, it might be gone later this year given how Trudeau is polling.

  25. #25

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    I don't like giving my money to anyone. CT is one tax I can avoid paying if I use less, like the GST, Like the excise taxes like any consumables.the CT is minor when looking at all the other taxes we pay. would scraping the Carbon tax make my gasoline price go down, maybe for a day but the oil companies would just increase prices. if I use 1 l less gasoline that's $0.31 less I give the Governments and $0.85 less I give the oil companies (Based on 1.16 gas Price). If I could decipher my home heating bill I could tell you how much less I pay by keeping my house at 67F. cutting the cable I give less to the cable companies. Its all relative to how you look at it. We cut the Alberta Carbon Tax and we just get the Federal Carbon tax, I would much rather keep the money here than Ottawa. The Carbon Tax has been around for about 10 years, but now its the consumer having to pay not just the big emitters. We were paying it before, we just didn't see it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    The power of fake news. Exactly like people that refuse to get their kids vaccinated.

    As a kid I remember hearing of people that didn’t want to earn more money because they’d get pushed into a higher tax bracket - as if there was a 100%+ bracket.

    What's fake about it, seniors do worry. You'll be one day, see how you like it
    Animals are my passion.

  27. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by BalancedOP View Post
    We cut the Alberta Carbon Tax and we just get the Federal Carbon tax, I would much rather keep the money here than Ottawa. The Carbon Tax has been around for about 10 years, but now its the consumer having to pay not just the big emitters. We were paying it before, we just didn't see it.
    If you believe JT (I'm not sure how many people do now), then all the money of the Federal one will come back to Alberta - the only difference is more will be rebated to consumers versus the provincial plan which hands it out to their favorite businesses for "green" investments.

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    Quote Originally Posted by downtownone View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by BalancedOP View Post
    We cut the Alberta Carbon Tax and we just get the Federal Carbon tax, I would much rather keep the money here than Ottawa. The Carbon Tax has been around for about 10 years, but now its the consumer having to pay not just the big emitters. We were paying it before, we just didn't see it.
    If you believe JT (I'm not sure how many people do now), then all the money of the Federal one will come back to Alberta - the only difference is more will be rebated to consumers versus the provincial plan which hands it out to their favorite businesses for "green" investments.

    Wait until he puts up that CT, higher and higher.
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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Scrap it for domestic, but not big polluters. Shell etc are already on board, but a carbon tax on home heating is [email protected] My mil is cold, but can't afford to turn up the heat, wrong, very very wrong!
    How will a carbon tax change peoples driving habits when they have no buses, no lrt? It's a very unfair tax, and I'd like it gone.
    Let Loblaws pay, oops wait, no they get free freezers..sheesh!
    So you like asymmetric taxation? (It’s not like progressive taxation, this large emitter bias in the tax picks sacrificial lambs.)

    Why should the big polluters get hit while others get off free?

    The rebates should more than make up for those that can turn up the heat. However many others can easily afford to pay the tax on their luxury trucks and SUVs and giant homes.
    The rebate covers nothing, and it's sad people buy into that BS!
    What is really sad is people like you who simply will not listen to reason. Many people on this forum have tried to engage you in a meaningful discussion but you steady refuse to budge from your original position and will go to the grave repeating the same mantra. What is really alarming is there are many people like you.
    Good. Hopefully they all vote UCP, and Notley gets kicked out. Because people like you are so stupid to believe the carbon tax works, when it does nothing. When you're in your eighties and worry about turning up the heat, like my mother in law, then we'll talk. Until then, you pay the stupid tax, and keep drinking that koolaid...
    Yes I refuse to budge, why would I.? I know many smart people that think differently than you, maybe you need to change, because to me, you're alarming!
    You say the carbon tax doesn’t work but your mother in law is worried about turning up the heat. Not an ideal situation but you have to agree it works.
    Especially when it's -30. Give your head a shake!
    Is that what you'd like for your mother?..wow
    I was simply pointing out the inconsistency of your “argument “. You say it does not work but obviously people are changing their habits. Did you explain to your mother in law that she will be probably getting a carbon tax rebate greater than what what she is spending? I’m guessing not you probably just fan the flames as though to speak.
    “Canada is the only country in the world that knows how to live without an identity,”-Marshall McLuhan

  30. #30

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    The results of the BC Carbon Tax.

    B.C.'s carbon tax a real-life rebuttal to carbon pricing's political opponents, some experts say

    Ten years ago, the province became the first jurisdiction in North America to implement a carbon tax. Since then, B.C.'s tax has attracted significant international media attention and academic scrutiny.


    The Economist noted B.C.'s economy had "kept pace with the rest of the country" since the introduction of the tax. In 2016, The New York Times declared the tax "worked as advertised."


    Research by University of British Columbia professors Werner Antweiler and Sumeet Gulati also found the carbon tax policy to be beneficial.


    "My research has shown unequivocally that it is effective," Gulati said. "In transportation, it has reduced gasoline consumption. It has made people buy more fuel efficient cars."


    In their 2016 paper, they found per capita gasoline demand in B.C. decreased by close to 15 per cent between 2007 and 2014. They note their findings are in line with other major academic research on B.C.'s carbon tax.

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...-say-1.4758484

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Scrap it for domestic, but not big polluters. Shell etc are already on board, but a carbon tax on home heating is [email protected] My mil is cold, but can't afford to turn up the heat, wrong, very very wrong!
    How will a carbon tax change peoples driving habits when they have no buses, no lrt? It's a very unfair tax, and I'd like it gone.
    Let Loblaws pay, oops wait, no they get free freezers..sheesh!
    So you like asymmetric taxation? (It’s not like progressive taxation, this large emitter bias in the tax picks sacrificial lambs.)

    Why should the big polluters get hit while others get off free?

    The rebates should more than make up for those that can turn up the heat. However many others can easily afford to pay the tax on their luxury trucks and SUVs and giant homes.
    The rebate covers nothing, and it's sad people buy into that BS!
    What is really sad is people like you who simply will not listen to reason. Many people on this forum have tried to engage you in a meaningful discussion but you steady refuse to budge from your original position and will go to the grave repeating the same mantra. What is really alarming is there are many people like you.
    Good. Hopefully they all vote UCP, and Notley gets kicked out. Because people like you are so stupid to believe the carbon tax works, when it does nothing. When you're in your eighties and worry about turning up the heat, like my mother in law, then we'll talk. Until then, you pay the stupid tax, and keep drinking that koolaid...
    Yes I refuse to budge, why would I.? I know many smart people that think differently than you, maybe you need to change, because to me, you're alarming!
    You say the carbon tax doesn’t work but your mother in law is worried about turning up the heat. Not an ideal situation but you have to agree it works.
    Especially when it's -30. Give your head a shake!
    Is that what you'd like for your mother?..wow
    I was simply pointing out the inconsistency of your “argument “. You say it does not work but obviously people are changing their habits. Did you explain to your mother in law that she will be probably getting a carbon tax rebate greater than what what she is spending? I’m guessing not you probably just fan the flames as though to speak.
    My mil is able to work things out for herself. The rebate doesn't cover the costs, rural Alberta is a damn sight colder than where I am, and probably where you are..I'm not fanning anything, simply because I disagree with your chain of thought. Nice try though..
    Some seniors have dubbed this the worry tax. Hopefully after tonight it will be gone, and Jason ties JT and co up in court.
    Animals are my passion.

  32. #32
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    Here's a couple more recent articles that say much the same:

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...x-bc-1.5083734

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...bate-1.5095236

    At least five different published studies have found British Columbia's carbon tax, introduced in 2008, has cut overall emissions, reduced per capita gasoline use by seven per cent, improved average vehicle efficiency by four per cent, cut residential natural gas use by seven per cent and diesel use by more than three per cent.

    Meanwhile, the province enjoyed about three per cent annual economic growth between 2012 and 2017.
    Personally I'm not a fan of Alberta's implementation because it's not revenue neutral and I don't think government should be picking winners or losers, whether that be particular technologies or companies. And BC's is getting away from that principal too. I suppose you could make an argument that once the carbon tax gets high enough that it can distort other tax rates/programs if it's kept revenue neutral, but we're nowhere near that point with carbon taxes in the mid double digit range.

    It's strange the supposed "conservatives" are so against the most efficient and least regulated way to address carbon emissions.

  33. #33
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    VANCOUVER, B.C. – CO2 emissions in B.C. continue to increaseeven with the Provinces Carbon Tax. Provincial data shows CO2 emissions went up from 61.3 million tones in 2015 to 62.3 in 2016 (the most recent data available). ... The carbon tax is set to increase in 2019 for British Columbia to $40 per tonne from $35.Jan 7, 2019

    https://www.energeticcity.ca/2019/01...al-carbon-tax/


    We already knew this. Our family has moved from Vancouver to Nanaimo, because the cost of living in BC has really gone up, stupidly so....

    Animals are my passion.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill View Post
    Eliminate alberta carbon tax, receive federal carbon tax.
    either way it's coming.
    Well Notley won't fight this cash grab, hopefully Kenney will. Every province is different, and that wonderful shell game ( cap and trade) is ridiculous.
    We're right by the US, do you really think our emissions will be lower because of another tax?? While they do nothing..do emissions just stop at our border?
    Animals are my passion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    VANCOUVER, B.C. – CO2 emissions in B.C. continue to increaseeven with the Provinces Carbon Tax. Provincial data shows CO2 emissions went up from 61.3 million tones in 2015 to 62.3 in 2016 (the most recent data available). ... The carbon tax is set to increase in 2019 for British Columbia to $40 per tonne from $35.Jan 7, 2019

    https://www.energeticcity.ca/2019/01...al-carbon-tax/


    We already knew this. Our family has moved from Vancouver to Nanaimo, because the cost of living in BC has really gone up, stupidly so....

    That's because BCs economy was growing at around or above 2.5% from like 2014 to today... so the BC gov raises the Carbon Tax every year and puts that into the economy for making it more efficient, sustainable. Car use in Vancouver for commuting to work is around 55% with most car traffic in the city being from folks outside the city proper. Major investment in transit is also non-stop with the hold-out being the federal governments over the decades. Nanaimo real estate / rent is less than Vancouver, obviously.
    Live and love... your neighbourhood.

  36. #36

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    BC GHG's are less than 2005's level and are slowly headed back to 2005s levels. BC in 1990 GHGs were 51.1 MTonnes and in 2016 were 60.1. Alberta was 174.1 in 1990 and 262.9 in 2016. BC is basically at 1993 levels for GHG, are leading the way in timber building code regulations, Passive House construction and design, electric vehicles, and transit. One of the biggest issues the country is still trying to solve is transporting goods by truck and all the emissions that brings.
    Live and love... your neighbourhood.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by GenWhy? View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    VANCOUVER, B.C. – CO2 emissions in B.C. continue to increaseeven with the Provinces Carbon Tax. Provincial data shows CO2 emissions went up from 61.3 million tones in 2015 to 62.3 in 2016 (the most recent data available). ... The carbon tax is set to increase in 2019 for British Columbia to $40 per tonne from $35.Jan 7, 2019

    https://www.energeticcity.ca/2019/01...al-carbon-tax/


    We already knew this. Our family has moved from Vancouver to Nanaimo, because the cost of living in BC has really gone up, stupidly so....

    That's because BCs economy was growing at around or above 2.5% from like 2014 to today... so the BC gov raises the Carbon Tax every year and puts that into the economy for making it more efficient, sustainable. Car use in Vancouver for commuting to work is around 55% with most car traffic in the city being from folks outside the city proper. Major investment in transit is also non-stop with the hold-out being the federal governments over the decades. Nanaimo real estate / rent is less than Vancouver, obviously.
    It's also misleading since it doesn't look at BCs population change.

  38. #38

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    Which has exploded. Facts are funny things.
    Live and love... your neighbourhood.

  39. #39

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    GDP is through the roof since 1990, population increase of 1.3 million as well and GHGs are about the same? Hmmm...
    Live and love... your neighbourhood.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GenWhy? View Post
    Which has exploded. Facts are funny things.
    Yes they can be twisted, to suit your position..
    Animals are my passion.

  41. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by GenWhy? View Post
    Which has exploded. Facts are funny things.
    Yes they can be twisted, to suit your position..
    Twisted into a nice straight-ish line.
    Live and love... your neighbourhood.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by GenWhy? View Post
    Which has exploded. Facts are funny things.
    Yes they can be twisted, to suit your position..
    As in exactly what you did? I would say per capita consumption is much more relevant to the carbon taxes success, than total consumption.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by seamusmcduffs View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by GenWhy? View Post
    Which has exploded. Facts are funny things.
    Yes they can be twisted, to suit your position..
    As in exactly what you did?
    Hmm, if you say so. I mean it's what you've done in the past, so why not?
    Animals are my passion.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by seamusmcduffs View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by GenWhy? View Post
    Which has exploded. Facts are funny things.
    Yes they can be twisted, to suit your position..
    As in exactly what you did?
    Hmm, if you say so. I mean it's what you've done in the past, so why not?
    hahahah. You are the champion of logic.

    Say anything, answer nothing, you should run for political office.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by seamusmcduffs View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by GenWhy? View Post
    Which has exploded. Facts are funny things.
    Yes they can be twisted, to suit your position..
    As in exactly what you did?
    Hmm, if you say so. I mean it's what you've done in the past, so why not?
    hahahah. You are the champion of logic.

    Say anything, answer nothing, you should run for political office.
    I did, and I won. Pokes tongue out at Dan. It's beautiful out, I raked leaves, dogs are walked, you need some fresh air..
    Ciao
    Animals are my passion.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Here's a couple more recent articles that say much the same:

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...x-bc-1.5083734

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...bate-1.5095236

    At least five different published studies have found British Columbia's carbon tax, introduced in 2008, has cut overall emissions, reduced per capita gasoline use by seven per cent, improved average vehicle efficiency by four per cent, cut residential natural gas use by seven per cent and diesel use by more than three per cent.

    Meanwhile, the province enjoyed about three per cent annual economic growth between 2012 and 2017.
    Personally I'm not a fan of Alberta's implementation because it's not revenue neutral and I don't think government should be picking winners or losers, whether that be particular technologies or companies. And BC's is getting away from that principal too. I suppose you could make an argument that once the carbon tax gets high enough that it can distort other tax rates/programs if it's kept revenue neutral, but we're nowhere near that point with carbon taxes in the mid double digit range.

    It's strange the supposed "conservatives" are so against the most efficient and least regulated way to address carbon emissions.
    Has the carbon tax actually reduced emissions or have vehicles just become more efficient and less likely to emit as much carbon as they did before 2008. Statistics are easy to skew for less intelligent people.

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