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Thread: Edmonton Oilers 2018/19 Season

  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    I think it's both. No movement, and can't send him down. No buyout either.
    Talk about Chiarelli putting all his eggs (Licic) in one basket. Most likely PC doesn't decide this all by himself. Yes, we all are prone to make poor decisions in life (my hand goes up first) but ultimately we pay for these poor decisions we make at some point. We're not talking about getting a Pizza order wrong. Somebody needs to be held accountable. That's all I'm saying on Lucic.
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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    I think it's both. No movement, and can't send him down. No buyout either.
    Talk about Chiarelli putting all his eggs (Licic) in one basket. Most likely PC doesn't decide this all by himself. Yes, we all are prone to make poor decisions in life (my hand goes up first) but ultimately we pay for these poor decisions we make at some point. We're not talking about getting a Pizza order wrong. Somebody needs to be held accountable. That's all I'm saying on Lucic.
    I love Lucic. Even when I hated him, I loved him.

    Seemed like a good idea at the time, I suppose, but I'm not sure what they expected from a guy who was already past his peak. Chiarelli looked at him, and saw the guy that played for him years earlier, in a much different league.

    It's hard to watch a real warrior fade. All the heart in the world, but he can't will himself to keep up to the speed of a game that's moved on.

    A lot of teams have one or two bad contracts like that. It's tough on everybody.
    Last edited by Jimbo; 11-11-2018 at 02:31 AM.
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    Cooper Marody recalled from the minors.
    You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea. - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  4. #204

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    I think it's both. No movement, and can't send him down. No buyout either.
    Talk about Chiarelli putting all his eggs (Licic) in one basket. Most likely PC doesn't decide this all by himself. Yes, we all are prone to make poor decisions in life (my hand goes up first) but ultimately we pay for these poor decisions we make at some point. We're not talking about getting a Pizza order wrong. Somebody needs to be held accountable. That's all I'm saying on Lucic.
    I love Lucic. Even when I hated him, I loved him.

    Seemed like a good idea at the time, I suppose, but I'm not sure what they expected from a guy who was already past his peak. Chiarelli looked at him, and saw the guy that played for him years earlier, in a much different league.

    It's hard to watch a real warrior fade. All the heart in the world, but he can't will himself to keep up to the speed of a game that's moved on.

    A lot of teams have one or two bad contracts like that. It's tough on everybody.
    But the game has changed as well and the speed and temp. Even back on the Kings Lucic looked slow to me, and on a Kings lineup that desperately needed more tempo. Lucic can't get to enough plays anymore, not to enough forechecks to effectively sustain offense. Even with Draisaitl he was unable to do this. I watched the Kings last night, man are they dead. They all look slower this year, Carter, Kopitar etal look done. kovalchuk is the only player on that team that looks good. They're just dead. every play I dead because they no longer have the legs. it happens. Time for a drastic rebuild in LA. Oilers should stay tuned this season for any pickups.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  5. #205
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    Yes theyre terrible.....until they beat us in the playoffs

  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    I think it's both. No movement, and can't send him down. No buyout either.
    Talk about Chiarelli putting all his eggs (Licic) in one basket. Most likely PC doesn't decide this all by himself. Yes, we all are prone to make poor decisions in life (my hand goes up first) but ultimately we pay for these poor decisions we make at some point. We're not talking about getting a Pizza order wrong. Somebody needs to be held accountable. That's all I'm saying on Lucic.
    I love Lucic. Even when I hated him, I loved him.

    Seemed like a good idea at the time, I suppose, but I'm not sure what they expected from a guy who was already past his peak. Chiarelli looked at him, and saw the guy that played for him years earlier, in a much different league.

    It's hard to watch a real warrior fade. All the heart in the world, but he can't will himself to keep up to the speed of a game that's moved on.

    A lot of teams have one or two bad contracts like that. It's tough on everybody.
    But the game has changed as well and the speed and temp. Even back on the Kings Lucic looked slow to me, and on a Kings lineup that desperately needed more tempo. Lucic can't get to enough plays anymore, not to enough forechecks to effectively sustain offense. Even with Draisaitl he was unable to do this. I watched the Kings last night, man are they dead. They all look slower this year, Carter, Kopitar etal look done. kovalchuk is the only player on that team that looks good. They're just dead. every play I dead because they no longer have the legs. it happens. Time for a drastic rebuild in LA. Oilers should stay tuned this season for any pickups.
    Why, so the Oilers get LA's excess baggage? Not to mention contracts the above names dropped above would command. You have just mentioned one such player Oilers already have in the current line up. Why would the Oilers (or any team) pick up these types of players to have more of what Oilers already have? This would be epic folly on
    Chiarelli's already tainted career in signing such players. Chiarelli could redeem himself by not signing any of these players that might appear.
    Last edited by envaneo; 11-11-2018 at 10:44 PM.
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  7. #207
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    4 zip after 2. I shut it off, Ill see what happened tomorrow. Too tired.

  8. #208
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    Its 4-1. Let me guess Cam Talbot in in net?

    The Cult of Hockey podcast was suggesting putting Lucic on the PK. Since I didn't watch tonight's game did they do that?
    Last edited by envaneo; 11-11-2018 at 11:24 PM.
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    I think Koskinen should start in net Tuesday.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

  10. #210
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    ^ Thanks for the answer. I'll take 500 hockey......for now.
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    ....or, will he lose his confidence after being with this org for a while. Somethings gotta give pretty soon, but Im not sure what its going to be.

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    A tough situation because we have some things clicking here and there, but inconsistency prevails. For me, that has to fall on the coach.
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    A tough situation because we have some things clicking here and there, but inconsistency prevails. For me, that has to fall on the coach.
    For me the problem with the team falls on the GM. Year 4 and still no one to consistantly play with Connor, major fail. No attempt to replace Sekera on defence, major fail. Trading our assests for players of much lesser ability, major fail. The GM should be gone.

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    I don't disagree, but that generally is a later in the season move...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    Lucic may have a one-way contract so he can't be sent down.
    That's not how "one-way" contracts work. All one-way vs. two-way means is that there's a different salary between the AHL or NHL. What would come in to play though is waivers, as veterans are almost always required to clear waivers prior to being re-assigned to the AHL. However, it's doubtful any team would put in a claim for Lucic, given his boat anchor of a contract. So if he cleared waivers, he would have no choice other than to report, otherwise he'd be in violation of his contract and the team would suspend him.

    However, for one, most of his contract would remain with the Oilers in terms of cap hit. Only the first 975k, or thereabouts, comes off the cap hit. Second, it would be yet another huge black mark on the organization, making it an even less desirable destination for established players. This is an organization that cannot afford to sully itself further in that respect. Players pay attention to this kind of thing, and would feel that the organization was disrespecting Lucic by sending him down to the minors.

    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo
    Do we know for sure if Lucic has a one way contract?


    There is zero chance he has a 2-way contract. No veteran player with any negotiating power would take a contract with a much lower AHL salary, because it makes them that much easier to bury in the minors. And as we saw with the ridiculously inflated contract that he signed, Lucic appeared to have all the negotiating power.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug
    Yes, no movement, they cannot send him down.


    Thanks Doug, forgot about that aspect. "No move" clauses have also become common, and are a step further than "no trade" clauses, which wouldn't necessarily preclude an organization from sending a player down with one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo
    No buyout either.


    All contracts can be bought out. But if the contract was mostly signing bonus money, as Lucic's was, he'll still get all of his money and the organization would save nothing on the cap. So it's fairly pointless to buy him out, unless the relationship has become so toxic between the player and organization that they would be willing to just pay him to go away.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug
    For me the problem with the team falls on the GM. Year 4 and still no one to consistantly play with Connor, major fail. No attempt to replace Sekera on defence, major fail. Trading our assests for players of much lesser ability, major fail. The GM should be gone.


    Agreed. McLellan is doing the best he can with an incredibly mediocre lineup. Changing the coach isn't going to instantly get them a PP quarterback, a 3rd pairing of D that should even be in the league and wingers who can score.

    What really needs to happen is for all upper management to be fired, including every single last former Oiler that has had any decision making authority or input in the last decade. All of them. Then Bob Nicholson should secure a written guarantee from Katz and his circle that they will not interfere with any day to day operations of the team, and bring in a new GM/President of Hockey Operations who will build his own staff out with no interference from ownership.
    Last edited by Marcel Petrin; 12-11-2018 at 12:09 PM.

  16. #216

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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    I think it's both. No movement, and can't send him down. No buyout either.
    Talk about Chiarelli putting all his eggs (Licic) in one basket. Most likely PC doesn't decide this all by himself. Yes, we all are prone to make poor decisions in life (my hand goes up first) but ultimately we pay for these poor decisions we make at some point. We're not talking about getting a Pizza order wrong. Somebody needs to be held accountable. That's all I'm saying on Lucic.
    I love Lucic. Even when I hated him, I loved him.

    Seemed like a good idea at the time, I suppose, but I'm not sure what they expected from a guy who was already past his peak. Chiarelli looked at him, and saw the guy that played for him years earlier, in a much different league.

    It's hard to watch a real warrior fade. All the heart in the world, but he can't will himself to keep up to the speed of a game that's moved on.

    A lot of teams have one or two bad contracts like that. It's tough on everybody.
    But the game has changed as well and the speed and temp. Even back on the Kings Lucic looked slow to me, and on a Kings lineup that desperately needed more tempo. Lucic can't get to enough plays anymore, not to enough forechecks to effectively sustain offense. Even with Draisaitl he was unable to do this. I watched the Kings last night, man are they dead. They all look slower this year, Carter, Kopitar etal look done. kovalchuk is the only player on that team that looks good. They're just dead. every play I dead because they no longer have the legs. it happens. Time for a drastic rebuild in LA. Oilers should stay tuned this season for any pickups.
    Why, so the Oilers get LA's excess baggage? Not to mention contracts the above names dropped above would command. You have just mentioned one such player Oilers already have in the current line up. Why would the Oilers (or any team) pick up these types of players to have more of what Oilers already have? This would be epic folly on
    Chiarelli's already tainted career in signing such players. Chiarelli could redeem himself by not signing any of these players that might appear.
    Kempe and Iafallo show promise, but I doubt the Kings would be interested. But they have given up multiple prospect players so who knows. Even taking a flyer on the Kovalchuk contract would be good. I have no idea why the Oilers didn't go hard for him in the first place. He's older, but he's still got game.


    I would not touch Carter at this point, or Doughty. We can't afford Kopitar. But Toffoli, Martinez would be potential adds. Muzzin would be exactly what we need.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  17. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    Lucic may have a one-way contract so he can't be sent down.
    That's not how "one-way" contracts work. All one-way vs. two-way means is that there's a different salary between the AHL or NHL. What would come in to play though is waivers, as veterans are almost always required to clear waivers prior to being re-assigned to the AHL. However, it's doubtful any team would put in a claim for Lucic, given his boat anchor of a contract. So if he cleared waivers, he would have no choice other than to report, otherwise he'd be in violation of his contract and the team would suspend him.

    However, for one, most of his contract would remain with the Oilers in terms of cap hit. Only the first 975k, or thereabouts, comes off the cap hit. Second, it would be yet another huge black mark on the organization, making it an even less desirable destination for established players. This is an organization that cannot afford to sully itself further in that respect. Players pay attention to this kind of thing, and would feel that the organization was disrespecting Lucic by sending him down to the minors.

    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo
    Do we know for sure if Lucic has a one way contract?


    There is zero chance he has a 2-way contract. No veteran player with any negotiating power would take a contract with a much lower AHL salary, because it makes them that much easier to bury in the minors. And as we saw with the ridiculously inflated contract that he signed, Lucic appeared to have all the negotiating power.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug
    Yes, no movement, they cannot send him down.


    Thanks Doug, forgot about that aspect. "No move" clauses have also become common, and are a step further than "no trade" clauses, which wouldn't necessarily preclude an organization from sending a player down with one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo
    No buyout either.


    All contracts can be bought out. But if the contract was mostly signing bonus money, as Lucic's was, he'll still get all of his money and the organization would save nothing on the cap. So it's fairly pointless to buy him out, unless the relationship has become so toxic between the player and organization that they would be willing to just pay him to go away.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug
    For me the problem with the team falls on the GM. Year 4 and still no one to consistantly play with Connor, major fail. No attempt to replace Sekera on defence, major fail. Trading our assests for players of much lesser ability, major fail. The GM should be gone.


    Agreed. McLellan is doing the best he can with an incredibly mediocre lineup. Changing the coach isn't going to instantly get them a PP quarterback, a 3rd pairing of D that should even be in the league and wingers who can score.

    What really needs to happen is for all upper management to be fired, including every single last former Oiler that has had any decision making authority or input in the last decade. All of them. Then Bob Nicholson should secure a written guarantee from Katz and his circle that they will not interfere with any day to day operations of the team, and bring in a new GM/President of Hockey Operations who will build his own staff out with no interference from ownership.
    I would let all of the management go but Keith Gretzky. He has done a really good job at the draft table the last few years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    ...
    I would not touch Carter at this point, or Doughty. We can't afford Kopitar. But Toffoli, Martinez would be potential adds. Muzzin would be exactly what we need.
    I don't understand what's going on with Jeff Carter. He has all the tools - big, fast, great skater, good puck handler, great shot. Maybe it's just time, and all the injuries have added up.

    LA are in tough, with Campbell going down, and Quick out.

    Muzzin would be nice, but can't see them giving him up. But as you point out, stranger things have happened.

    Second straight year Chiarelli has failed to address a fairly long term injury to a key defenceman. Admitted it was mistake last year, then does it again. ???
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    ^ I like your style.

    @Marcel......Ok if Lucic got sent to the minors his salary would follow him, wouldn't it? He's still in the Oilers orginzation. He's still under contract.

    I agree with the Cult of Hockey's last podcast play Lucic on defence. I know its a whole different skill set.
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    I don't buy into the whole blame the GM or blame the coach thing. In fact I'm not entirely sure who to blame exactly, but I do think most of it is the mental approach to the game. Here is what I've noticed 17 games in...

    - First three games, they're playing mostly like they did last year

    - During the game against the Jets after they were getting their asses kicked, they woke up and the forwards started to back check well, and created back pressure, which in turn allowed the defense to step up and not give up the blue line as easy. This in turn caused the other team to turn the puck over, and generally the Oilers were then coming back as a group, and not spread out all over. This was also catching teams, and the Oilers didn't have to always come the full 200 feet, and try to get through the other team's neutral zone forecheck. This trend continued while they were getting their wins.

    - Since the game in Washington, the back pressure wasn't the same as it was before, it was night and day how much easier it was for Washington to routinely enter the zone. The Oilers Dmen were forced to backup and give up the blue line since they didn't have the support from the forwards. This was also feeding into the Oilers offence as well, but I don't think its any coincidence that the offense has dried up the same time they "abandonded" with the team defense. Since they routinely have to break out from their own end almost every change of possession, they have to get through the neutral zone forecheck, and are typically spread out too much to allow for supportive short passes on the rush, which is what the Oilers are good at. Basically the forwards are cheating for offense, by not coming back to support the Dmen.

    In 2016/2017, the Oilers generally played with good back pressure most of the season, but last year, in combination with shaky goaltending, and special teams, is why they never even got a sniff at the playoffs. So far we've seen both sides of the coin, and its pretty evident when the team has success, and when they don't.

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    On the positive side, the Oilers play in the weakest division in the league. Have they played any games against division rivals?

    I think they played Vegas. Don't remember if there was another.
    Last edited by Jimbo; 12-11-2018 at 06:48 PM.
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    There's a bunch of divisional games coming up here.

    @Marcel......Ok if Lucic got sent to the minors his salary would follow him, wouldn't it? He's still in the Oilers orginzation. He's still under contract.
    No, it doesn't. I clearly stated that only the first 975k comes off the team's salary cap. Call it the Wade Redden Rule. You can't bury expensive contracts in the minors since they last renegotiated the CBA.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lobbdogg View Post
    I don't buy into the whole blame the GM or blame the coach thing. In fact I'm not entirely sure who to blame exactly, but I do think most of it is the mental approach to the game. Here is what I've noticed 17 games in...

    - First three games, they're playing mostly like they did last year

    - During the game against the Jets after they were getting their asses kicked, they woke up and the forwards started to back check well, and created back pressure, which in turn allowed the defense to step up and not give up the blue line as easy. This in turn caused the other team to turn the puck over, and generally the Oilers were then coming back as a group, and not spread out all over. This was also catching teams, and the Oilers didn't have to always come the full 200 feet, and try to get through the other team's neutral zone forecheck. This trend continued while they were getting their wins.

    - Since the game in Washington, the back pressure wasn't the same as it was before, it was night and day how much easier it was for Washington to routinely enter the zone. The Oilers Dmen were forced to backup and give up the blue line since they didn't have the support from the forwards. This was also feeding into the Oilers offence as well, but I don't think its any coincidence that the offense has dried up the same time they "abandonded" with the team defense. Since they routinely have to break out from their own end almost every change of possession, they have to get through the neutral zone forecheck, and are typically spread out too much to allow for supportive short passes on the rush, which is what the Oilers are good at. Basically the forwards are cheating for offense, by not coming back to support the Dmen.

    In 2016/2017, the Oilers generally played with good back pressure most of the season, but last year, in combination with shaky goaltending, and special teams, is why they never even got a sniff at the playoffs. So far we've seen both sides of the coin, and its pretty evident when the team has success, and when they don't.
    Two weeks ago my opinion was the winning results were unsustainable because the Oilers were having to outwork other clubs just to get close wins, and multiple of them in OT. This is not a pattern for sustained success and the Oilers entirely lack any scoring depth and so that the same players are having to out there and bang results every game. Most teams have better depth. The past 4 clubs we've played have much better depth. The Oilers team has 3 players on it that scored more than 12 goals last season. That is frankly disgusting.

    These results, and where this team is at, is all On Chiarelli. What good players do we have that he brought in without enormous cost (Hall for Larsson) Even the useless players he brought in here like Strome for Eberle or acquiring Lucic for 6M were horrible deals. The best players he's brought in at no appreciable cost is Maroon, now gone, and Talbot, who is not looking as good anymore.

    This is a bad roster put together by a bad GM. The team had better assets when he got it.
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    And when good players are available they never get them, for what ever reason.

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    Yup. The Oilers can't acquire a single right shot top 4 defenseman without a massive overpay in Hall for Larsson, yet Calgary's done it three times in the last few years with fairly reasonable/fair deals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by lobbdogg View Post
    I don't buy into the whole blame the GM or blame the coach thing. In fact I'm not entirely sure who to blame exactly, but I do think most of it is the mental approach to the game. Here is what I've noticed 17 games in...

    - First three games, they're playing mostly like they did last year

    - During the game against the Jets after they were getting their asses kicked, they woke up and the forwards started to back check well, and created back pressure, which in turn allowed the defense to step up and not give up the blue line as easy. This in turn caused the other team to turn the puck over, and generally the Oilers were then coming back as a group, and not spread out all over. This was also catching teams, and the Oilers didn't have to always come the full 200 feet, and try to get through the other team's neutral zone forecheck. This trend continued while they were getting their wins.

    - Since the game in Washington, the back pressure wasn't the same as it was before, it was night and day how much easier it was for Washington to routinely enter the zone. The Oilers Dmen were forced to backup and give up the blue line since they didn't have the support from the forwards. This was also feeding into the Oilers offence as well, but I don't think its any coincidence that the offense has dried up the same time they "abandonded" with the team defense. Since they routinely have to break out from their own end almost every change of possession, they have to get through the neutral zone forecheck, and are typically spread out too much to allow for supportive short passes on the rush, which is what the Oilers are good at. Basically the forwards are cheating for offense, by not coming back to support the Dmen.

    In 2016/2017, the Oilers generally played with good back pressure most of the season, but last year, in combination with shaky goaltending, and special teams, is why they never even got a sniff at the playoffs. So far we've seen both sides of the coin, and its pretty evident when the team has success, and when they don't.
    Two weeks ago my opinion was the winning results were unsustainable because the Oilers were having to outwork other clubs just to get close wins, and multiple of them in OT. This is not a pattern for sustained success and the Oilers entirely lack any scoring depth and so that the same players are having to out there and bang results every game. Most teams have better depth. The past 4 clubs we've played have much better depth. The Oilers team has 3 players on it that scored more than 12 goals last season. That is frankly disgusting.

    These results, and where this team is at, is all On Chiarelli. What good players do we have that he brought in without enormous cost (Hall for Larsson) Even the useless players he brought in here like Strome for Eberle or acquiring Lucic for 6M were horrible deals. The best players he's brought in at no appreciable cost is Maroon, now gone, and Talbot, who is not looking as good anymore.

    This is a bad roster put together by a bad GM. The team had better assets when he got it.

    I'm not saying this is a cup winning team, and that for sure PC has made a couple poor trades/contracts, but this isn't all on his feet.

    In 2016/2017 the Oilers had a check first mentality, and it carried pretty much through most of the season, and guess what? They ended up in the playoffs, So don't tell me playing the right way...playing the system is not sustainable. Many good teams do it year after year. Many Oilers players had success in this season, and a large number of those players still exist on the team in 2018/2019.

    In 2017/2018 they didn't bother with the check first mentality, and often tried to cheat for offense. Basically they abandoned the system, and look where they were at. Sure Talbot did not have a strong year, but he was also facing more higher % shots against from in the slot too. Many players also struggled to score, as the forwards and defense would get spread out too much, as the forwards were trying to cheat for offense, but this actually works against them, as teams can clog up the neutral zone, or forecheck in the Oilers zone, as the Defense don't have as many good outlet passes.

    In 2018/2019 so far we've seen both sides of the coin. They've given up the first goal in a number of games now, and it seems that once that happens, they try to cheat for offense again, but in most cases this just doesn't work, as teams know how to counter it. From here, they are in chase mode, and rather than sticking with the system, they take more risk offensively, and from here it snowballs with generally going down by two or three in short order.

    There is no question that the team could use some tweaks here and there player wise, but I don't buy for a second that they are as bad we've seen basically all of last year, and some of this year. And while I do question some of McLellan's coaching decisions, I do believe he is trying everything in his power to get them playing the right way.

  27. #227

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lobbdogg View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by lobbdogg View Post
    I don't buy into the whole blame the GM or blame the coach thing. In fact I'm not entirely sure who to blame exactly, but I do think most of it is the mental approach to the game. Here is what I've noticed 17 games in...

    - First three games, they're playing mostly like they did last year

    - During the game against the Jets after they were getting their asses kicked, they woke up and the forwards started to back check well, and created back pressure, which in turn allowed the defense to step up and not give up the blue line as easy. This in turn caused the other team to turn the puck over, and generally the Oilers were then coming back as a group, and not spread out all over. This was also catching teams, and the Oilers didn't have to always come the full 200 feet, and try to get through the other team's neutral zone forecheck. This trend continued while they were getting their wins.

    - Since the game in Washington, the back pressure wasn't the same as it was before, it was night and day how much easier it was for Washington to routinely enter the zone. The Oilers Dmen were forced to backup and give up the blue line since they didn't have the support from the forwards. This was also feeding into the Oilers offence as well, but I don't think its any coincidence that the offense has dried up the same time they "abandonded" with the team defense. Since they routinely have to break out from their own end almost every change of possession, they have to get through the neutral zone forecheck, and are typically spread out too much to allow for supportive short passes on the rush, which is what the Oilers are good at. Basically the forwards are cheating for offense, by not coming back to support the Dmen.

    In 2016/2017, the Oilers generally played with good back pressure most of the season, but last year, in combination with shaky goaltending, and special teams, is why they never even got a sniff at the playoffs. So far we've seen both sides of the coin, and its pretty evident when the team has success, and when they don't.
    Two weeks ago my opinion was the winning results were unsustainable because the Oilers were having to outwork other clubs just to get close wins, and multiple of them in OT. This is not a pattern for sustained success and the Oilers entirely lack any scoring depth and so that the same players are having to out there and bang results every game. Most teams have better depth. The past 4 clubs we've played have much better depth. The Oilers team has 3 players on it that scored more than 12 goals last season. That is frankly disgusting.

    These results, and where this team is at, is all On Chiarelli. What good players do we have that he brought in without enormous cost (Hall for Larsson) Even the useless players he brought in here like Strome for Eberle or acquiring Lucic for 6M were horrible deals. The best players he's brought in at no appreciable cost is Maroon, now gone, and Talbot, who is not looking as good anymore.

    This is a bad roster put together by a bad GM. The team had better assets when he got it.

    I'm not saying this is a cup winning team, and that for sure PC has made a couple poor trades/contracts, but this isn't all on his feet.

    In 2016/2017 the Oilers had a check first mentality, and it carried pretty much through most of the season, and guess what? They ended up in the playoffs, So don't tell me playing the right way...playing the system is not sustainable. Many good teams do it year after year. Many Oilers players had success in this season, and a large number of those players still exist on the team in 2018/2019.

    In 2017/2018 they didn't bother with the check first mentality, and often tried to cheat for offense. Basically they abandoned the system, and look where they were at. Sure Talbot did not have a strong year, but he was also facing more higher % shots against from in the slot too. Many players also struggled to score, as the forwards and defense would get spread out too much, as the forwards were trying to cheat for offense, but this actually works against them, as teams can clog up the neutral zone, or forecheck in the Oilers zone, as the Defense don't have as many good outlet passes.

    In 2018/2019 so far we've seen both sides of the coin. They've given up the first goal in a number of games now, and it seems that once that happens, they try to cheat for offense again, but in most cases this just doesn't work, as teams know how to counter it. From here, they are in chase mode, and rather than sticking with the system, they take more risk offensively, and from here it snowballs with generally going down by two or three in short order.

    There is no question that the team could use some tweaks here and there player wise, but I don't buy for a second that they are as bad we've seen basically all of last year, and some of this year. And while I do question some of McLellan's coaching decisions, I do believe he is trying everything in his power to get them playing the right way.
    The team that made the playoffs still had Eberle, Maroon, Pouliot, Hendricks, Letestu on it. Those are serviceable vets that have more quality than a lot of players we have now. The lineup was deeper then. Players we have now like Khaira, Kassian, Chiasson, Yama, Pulju, Brodz, Rattie, Lucic are not as good in respective roles. That team had more scoring support. We have to remember that essentially we have lost Lucic for whatever reason. The player we have left is a shadow. So removing Eberle, removing Lucic, that leaves a hole in topsix and it hasn't been replaced. That years team had 6 players with more than 12goals. The Oilers currently have only 3 players with 12 or more goals last season. That would be the worst scoring depth in the whole league.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  28. #228
    C2E Stole my Heart!!!!
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    ^ Nailed it.
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

  29. #229
    C2E Continued Contributor
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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by lobbdogg View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by lobbdogg View Post
    I don't buy into the whole blame the GM or blame the coach thing. In fact I'm not entirely sure who to blame exactly, but I do think most of it is the mental approach to the game. Here is what I've noticed 17 games in...

    - First three games, they're playing mostly like they did last year

    - During the game against the Jets after they were getting their asses kicked, they woke up and the forwards started to back check well, and created back pressure, which in turn allowed the defense to step up and not give up the blue line as easy. This in turn caused the other team to turn the puck over, and generally the Oilers were then coming back as a group, and not spread out all over. This was also catching teams, and the Oilers didn't have to always come the full 200 feet, and try to get through the other team's neutral zone forecheck. This trend continued while they were getting their wins.

    - Since the game in Washington, the back pressure wasn't the same as it was before, it was night and day how much easier it was for Washington to routinely enter the zone. The Oilers Dmen were forced to backup and give up the blue line since they didn't have the support from the forwards. This was also feeding into the Oilers offence as well, but I don't think its any coincidence that the offense has dried up the same time they "abandonded" with the team defense. Since they routinely have to break out from their own end almost every change of possession, they have to get through the neutral zone forecheck, and are typically spread out too much to allow for supportive short passes on the rush, which is what the Oilers are good at. Basically the forwards are cheating for offense, by not coming back to support the Dmen.

    In 2016/2017, the Oilers generally played with good back pressure most of the season, but last year, in combination with shaky goaltending, and special teams, is why they never even got a sniff at the playoffs. So far we've seen both sides of the coin, and its pretty evident when the team has success, and when they don't.
    Two weeks ago my opinion was the winning results were unsustainable because the Oilers were having to outwork other clubs just to get close wins, and multiple of them in OT. This is not a pattern for sustained success and the Oilers entirely lack any scoring depth and so that the same players are having to out there and bang results every game. Most teams have better depth. The past 4 clubs we've played have much better depth. The Oilers team has 3 players on it that scored more than 12 goals last season. That is frankly disgusting.

    These results, and where this team is at, is all On Chiarelli. What good players do we have that he brought in without enormous cost (Hall for Larsson) Even the useless players he brought in here like Strome for Eberle or acquiring Lucic for 6M were horrible deals. The best players he's brought in at no appreciable cost is Maroon, now gone, and Talbot, who is not looking as good anymore.

    This is a bad roster put together by a bad GM. The team had better assets when he got it.

    I'm not saying this is a cup winning team, and that for sure PC has made a couple poor trades/contracts, but this isn't all on his feet.

    In 2016/2017 the Oilers had a check first mentality, and it carried pretty much through most of the season, and guess what? They ended up in the playoffs, So don't tell me playing the right way...playing the system is not sustainable. Many good teams do it year after year. Many Oilers players had success in this season, and a large number of those players still exist on the team in 2018/2019.

    In 2017/2018 they didn't bother with the check first mentality, and often tried to cheat for offense. Basically they abandoned the system, and look where they were at. Sure Talbot did not have a strong year, but he was also facing more higher % shots against from in the slot too. Many players also struggled to score, as the forwards and defense would get spread out too much, as the forwards were trying to cheat for offense, but this actually works against them, as teams can clog up the neutral zone, or forecheck in the Oilers zone, as the Defense don't have as many good outlet passes.

    In 2018/2019 so far we've seen both sides of the coin. They've given up the first goal in a number of games now, and it seems that once that happens, they try to cheat for offense again, but in most cases this just doesn't work, as teams know how to counter it. From here, they are in chase mode, and rather than sticking with the system, they take more risk offensively, and from here it snowballs with generally going down by two or three in short order.

    There is no question that the team could use some tweaks here and there player wise, but I don't buy for a second that they are as bad we've seen basically all of last year, and some of this year. And while I do question some of McLellan's coaching decisions, I do believe he is trying everything in his power to get them playing the right way.
    The team that made the playoffs still had Eberle, Maroon, Pouliot, Hendricks, Letestu on it. Those are serviceable vets that have more quality than a lot of players we have now. The lineup was deeper then. Players we have now like Khaira, Kassian, Chiasson, Yama, Pulju, Brodz, Rattie, Lucic are not as good in respective roles. That team had more scoring support. We have to remember that essentially we have lost Lucic for whatever reason. The player we have left is a shadow. So removing Eberle, removing Lucic, that leaves a hole in topsix and it hasn't been replaced. That years team had 6 players with more than 12goals. The Oilers currently have only 3 players with 12 or more goals last season. That would be the worst scoring depth in the whole league.
    You don't think that playing the system, and having a team commitment to defense first contributed to the 2016/2017 team and individual success? Have you been watching the games, or just observing the scoreboard/highlights to form this one dimensional opinion? We've seen over the last decade and more that you can bring in all the different players you want, but unless the team plays the system, individual and team success likely won't be there. Then also look at all the players that leave and go elsewhere and thrive.

    Again, I'm not saying that there aren't holes in the lineup, but I'm also saying its not just a simple plug a better player in the hole, and everything will magically be better. Until the group decides they need to play the system night in, night out, they will continue to struggle.

    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    ^ Nailed it.
    No offense, but given your history of posts on the Oilers, your opinion doesn't carry much weight.

  30. #230

    Default

    ^
    Talbot was incredible pretty much all of 16-17. that masked some deficiencies. But the team had guys like Pouliot, Lander, Hendricks who were pretty responsible defensively. Kassian was looking for somewhere to land and so had a solid year. Add in guys like Purcell who we just don't have in the lineup today and of course the absence of Eberle, Maroon, Lucic. This years team is a pale imitation of the depth found on that team. We had a bottomsix that season that would rarely get scored against because they were all solid vets. Even guys like Pakarinen were rocks defensively. Lander very under rated in that regard. Team had Letestu as well. We really haven't replaced much of that. Instead we have Rattie and Rieder as helpful additions. But we lost so many players that were helpful.

    You don't win with 3 offensive players and pretty much a mediocre lineup after that. No team does. Theres 8 players on our roster this year that I would not even put on an NHL club.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

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