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Thread: Alberta oil control legislation (Bill 12)

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    Default Alberta oil control legislation (Bill 12)

    Thoughts on this legislation?




    Move to cut energy shipments expected to hit more than B.C. fuel prices | CTV Vancouver News

    https://bc.ctvnews.ca/move-to-cut-en...ices-1.3889057


    Alberta's Bill 12 more about politics than practicalities, says energy expert, politician

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/britis...l-12-1.4623817
    Last edited by KC; 18-04-2018 at 04:17 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post


    Alberta's Bill 12 more about politics than practicalities, says energy expert, politician
    It's funny, I've seen this type of claim made a lot recently. In fact this is legislation and has the force of law. Don't ignore the law. It seems that "experts" like to say something is often "just politics". Well, it's "just politics" until it hits the statute books, and then it has the force of law. Let's not downplay what Alberta is attempting to do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AAAAE View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post


    Alberta's Bill 12 more about politics than practicalities, says energy expert, politician
    It's funny, I've seen this type of claim made a lot recently. In fact this is legislation and has the force of law. Don't ignore the law. It seems that "experts" like to say something is often "just politics". Well, it's "just politics" until it hits the statute books, and then it has the force of law. Let's not downplay what Alberta is attempting to do.
    I think what the guy means is that blocking the oil is more of an empty threat, rather than something that's likely to be implemented, because carrying out the embargo would hurt Alberta as well.

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    ^ How? BC can just get its fuel from Washington anyway. Gas prices might go up to $2 soon but that's about it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    ^ How? BC can just get its fuel from Washington anyway. Gas prices might go up to $2 soon but that's about it.
    Washington oil, is from Alberta.They wont go that route for long, because gas will go up!
    Plane fuel, that's where it will hurt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    ^ How? BC can just get its fuel from Washington anyway. Gas prices might go up to $2 soon but that's about it.
    No, it can't. Not without significant investment in import and storage facilities, which do not currently exist. It would take months, if not years, for BC to be able to get the infrastructure in place to import significant amounts of gasoline, diesel, or aviation fuel. And no private interest would be willing to make that investment, because it would have an incredibly short shelf life as Alberta could simply re-open the taps.

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    QUOTE: "Could Alberta bring B.C. to its knees by shutting off the oil?"

    Well, that's from a couple of months ago. As of yesterday, we've got the SCOC ruling that a province can prevent the import of products from other provinces, but can't impose economic sanctions for punitive purposes.

    The first part of that would seem to support BC's efforts to block KM, while the second would hinder Alberta's efforts to shut off the oil.

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    ^That's a creative reading of the SCOC ruling.

    After reading the Supreme Court judgment, my biggest takeaway is that the current Wagner court - compared to the previous McLachlin court - is going to be less judicially active. In other words, give more weight to previous judgments (precedents) and provide greater deference to laws duly passed by elected Canadian governments.

    The ruling was narrowly focused on the right of the New Brunswick government to impose lawful restrictions on the import of liquor from other provinces. In so doing, the Supreme Court overturned the decision of the trial judge in a case that the appellate court in New Brunswick declined to hear.

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    Quote Originally Posted by East McCauley View Post
    ^That's a creative reading of the SCOC ruling.
    Perhaps, but it's not original to me.

    https://tinyurl.com/yamedvy8

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    It wont ever happen, death by delay..and that pompous @ss Carr can stop saying it will be built !!!



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    I believe the intent of the law is to vacate the existing capacity currently used for somewhat refined product for dilbit. Effectively Alberta is not 'blocking' BC. It is simply making a call on what product to sell.
    Last edited by Safir; 20-04-2018 at 01:54 PM.

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    The beauty of this legislation is the vagueness of action. You aren't blocking shipping oil or gas, but rather shipping it to Saskatchewan or Montana because of higher prices. It is pretty hard for any legal action to be taken against Alberta for those reasons.

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    They rely heavily on our oil, but they don't want it..

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post

    They rely heavily on our oil, but they don't want it..
    And we never liked having to build our houses out of BC’s precious and beautiful forests. We didn’t like the fact that they clear cut their forests to get us 2x4s. ...and didn’t like the fact that they’d log cedar etc and then just replant with cloned production oriented species...

    Some of us didn’t like to see pristine, natural river valley ecosystems damned and totally obliterated by their hydro dams.

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    Alberta needs license from the Federal Government to transport o&g in any capacity. Whether it be pipeline's, rail, etc. All the Federal Government needs to do is not grant those licenses to Alberta.

    The current BC minority Government only got into power because it had some help by several green MLA's.

    KM is waiting on May 31st. So is BC. From here on in its a waiting game. Its a tightrope.
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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Alberta needs license from the Federal Government to transport o&g in any capacity. Whether it be pipeline's, rail, etc. All the Federal Government needs to do is not grant those licenses to Alberta.

    The current BC minority Government only got into power because it had some help by several green MLA's.

    KM is waiting on May 31st. So is BC. From here on in its a waiting game. Its a tightrope.
    Horgan is only saying no to appease three greenies, otherwise there would be another election, and Morgan would lose, given over half of BC now agree with the pipeline.
    JT said in France last week, he wished he could phase out our oil faster than he is, he's doing a pretty damned good job now! Meanwhile BP and NS are starting a new oil project..

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    Hopefully if Notley can make an investment to the pipeline this will give KM more confidence to go ahead.
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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Hopefully if Notley can make an investment to the pipeline this will give KM more confidence to go ahead.
    Everyone loves the taxpayers and the idea of government involvement when they are handing over the money to help.

    If Alberta goes the investment route I hope they take a controlling position and make it highly profitable, to the benefit of taxpayers.
    Last edited by KC; 22-04-2018 at 09:03 PM.

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    If they're going to invest government money, I'd prefer that they invest in upgraders so we can stop shipping the lowest value commodity. More jobs here. More investment here. More money stays in Alberta.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    If they're going to invest government money, I'd prefer that they invest in upgraders so we can stop shipping the lowest value commodity. More jobs here. More investment here. More money stays in Alberta.
    Hopefully they pick better projects than the PCs did back in 2012...

    http://calgaryherald.com/business/en...ery-in-decades

    North West Refining’s Sturgeon plant in Alberta is poised to add 40,000 barrels a day of diesel to an already glutted market.
    The Alberta Petroleum Marketing Commission, an agent of the provincial government, will provide 75 percent of the feedstock used by the $8.5 billion refinery, or about 37,500 barrels a day, along with loans, equity and fees, according to government documents published last year, which estimated the total package at about $25 billion over 30 years.
    Giving less of a damn than everů Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

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    Notley's investment idea I mentioned above is strictly for the Trans mountain KM pipeline project. Investment by the AG in upgrders and o/g is another topic.
    Last edited by envaneo; 23-04-2018 at 11:42 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Notley's investment idea I mentioned above is strictly for the Trans mountain KM pipeline project. Investment by the AG in upgrders and o/g is another topic.
    Well, allocation of money is always a choice between options. Upgraded product might then face less opposition than bitumen from BC.

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