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Thread: Nordic Spa

  1. #1
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    Default Nordic Spa

    I saw on the news tonight that a Nordic spa is opening in Kananaskis. Maybe an idea for Edmonton's river valley?
    http://media.travelalberta.com/press...f-its-kind.htm
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    Love this idea! I was in Budapest recently checking out their thermal baths and it would be so cool to have something like that in our river valley

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    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    We might go from 0-2 or 3 within the next 3 yrs.
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    As someone who has spent a lot of time at Spa Norik in Chelsea (near Ottawa and Gatineau) this could be a very good thing.

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    "The new spa will create more than 450 jobs, according to the company."

    Even with ancillary jobs, I find that number very hard to believe.

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    I think one by Elk Island Park would be a hit.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Cat View Post
    I think one by Elk Island Park would be a hit.
    It would certainly be a bigger draw, helping boost Elk Island's visitor numbers.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by The_Cat View Post
    I think one by Elk Island Park would be a hit.
    It would certainly be a bigger draw, helping boost Elk Island's visitor numbers.

    Please note where the Spa is NOT going.

    #Edmonton #RiverValley

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    If there will be 3 Nordic spas as per IanO's post then dollars to donuts there will be one in the river valley. Not sure where, but I'd say near the Royal Glenora or the Kinsman.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    Don't know if these are legit renders of the project. If so - looks great.
    Dub's firm is involved.
    https://globalnews.ca/news/5328418/e...dic-spa-plans/

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    Bingo
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    This is different from the Quebec company in Parkland County, yes?
    I'm curious to know where these folks will be located.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    I'm also curious about location. It says 'in the heart of Edmonton' but then also 'two acres'...
    "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits" - Einstein

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    Ryan Jespersen at CHED's interview with Hank van Weelden, managing partner, Edmonton Nordic Spa. According to the interview, this is different from the Quebec Parkland county spa. It is the same Alberta company that created the Kananaskis Nordic spa. The interviewee was cagey about the exact location, but it will be within city limits, and will not be located at Rossdale, Louis McKinney, or Emily Murphy Park. It will operate 365 days a year, with both in door and out door components. It will be 18+ only in the spa itself, but there are plans for an on-site daycare facility. AGLC rules currently prevent liquor being drunk in the hot pools, but the site itself will be licensed. The fee will be around the $75 per day fee for the Kananaskis facility, with separately paid add-on services like massages available on site.

    It sound like it would be a great addition to Edmonton. I wonder if they will co-locate it with the Mayfair Golf Club, as that would put it on privately leased, already developed land in the river valley, and I'm sure the people affluent enough to use the golf club would also use the Nordic spa.

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    I wonder if it might go in the area below Jasper Avenue (82-92 Street).
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    It will be near the NSR in a west/central location.
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    NSR?
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  19. #19

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    north sask river

  20. #20

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    Cross ref link:

    2007:
    Edmonton Hot Springs

    http://www.connect2edmonton.ca/showt...on-Hot-Springs



    Alberta's First Nordic Spa (Kananaskis)

    http://www.connect2edmonton.ca/showt...a-(Kananaskis)



    Thermal bath idea mentioned:

    Winter City Strategy - Fall in love with winter again - Page 4

    http://www.connect2edmonton.ca/showt...er-again/page4
    Last edited by KC; 31-05-2019 at 08:36 AM.

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    Maybe an indoor-outdoor one at the old Rossdale power plant building.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Maybe an indoor-outdoor one at the old Rossdale power plant building.
    In the CHED interview, the developer specifically ruled out Rossdale as a site.

  24. #24

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    I'm going to guess that this will be in lower QE Park where the bike skills park was suppose to go.

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    ^^for this one, yes... but I still like the idea of a future one there.

    ^Nope... further west.
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  26. #26

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    How further west? If I guess the right location, would you even say so? Kinsmen grounds near the new QEII pool? If not that, maybe near the Royal Glenora / Victoria Park. I couldn't imagine this in Government House/Emily Murphy or Hawrelak Park? Maybe the Mayfair GC?

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    Wish I could, but am not able to say.
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  28. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    It will be near the NSR in a west/central location.
    In a random conversation with someone who knows the owner i heard near fort Edmonton park.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    It will be near the NSR in a west/central location.
    In a random conversation with someone who knows the owner i heard near fort Edmonton park.
    Hmm, I wonder if that's what is going up on the land just South of Fort Edmonton, halfway up the bank. It was originally to be a luxury condo/townhouse development: https://edmontonjournal.com/business...minium-project

    There's definitely something being built there. I just assumed it was a massive single family house.

  30. #30

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    I don't know. It was random that this topic came up at work with someone who mentioned their friends with the owners. Take it for what it is tho... gossipy conversations.

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    https://youtu.be/XGmF1j_8_RU


    It looks very nice...
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    I would have preferred somewhere in the vicinity of Rossdale but taking over a Fort Edmonton Park parking lot and having LRT/transit access to it should be just as fine.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    The parking lot in that picture is beyond full, I wonder what they will do about that.
    Edmonton first, everything else second.

  35. #35

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    use a different picture?
    I am in no way entitled to your opinion...

  36. #36

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    guess the info I had was spot on.

  37. #37

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    ahhhhhh when I close my eyes and think of a relaxing spa, the first thing I think of is the relaxing sights and sounds of the Quesnel Bridge!

    this site is less than 1000 ft away from the city’s largest freeway crossing. Big mistake!!

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    lol. too funny

  39. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Taras View Post
    ahhhhhh when I close my eyes and think of a relaxing spa, the first thing I think of is the relaxing sights and sounds of the Quesnel Bridge!

    this site is less than 1000 ft away from the city’s largest freeway crossing. Big mistake!!
    A waterfall will mask the sound coming from the bridge, they might even play a recording of birds chirping.
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    i didn't write this but a friend if mine did. a nordic spa would be a great addition to the city but i'm also of the opinion this is not the best location for it...

    "I suspect that a Nordic Spa would be a welcome attraction somewhere in our region/city, and I appreciate cash flow and overall utilization are legitimate considerations for Fort Edmonton management, but someone is going to have to explain to me how this sort of ultra-modern, commercial operation is consistent with the purpose of Fort Edmonton, its mission and stated objects from its Master Plan:


    "- A clear commitment to historical and cultural integrity, including a commitment to retain Fort Edmonton Park’s status as a recognized museum by the Alberta Museum Association.
    "- An increased emphasis on bringing Edmonton’s history to life through sound research by historians and curators and by increasing opportunities for visitors to interact with knowledgeable, well-trained interpreters.
    "- Ensuring technology is used to complement, not drive, storytelling.
    "- Revision to some proposed capital projects. For example, the Wilderness Waters attractions were removed and replaced with an Attractions Zone that will be further explored within the objectives of historical and cultural integrity.


    "What exactly does a nordic spa have to do with the history and culture of Edmonton. Should the spa be located within the Fort Edmonton museum complex?"

    one day perhaps we will be able to grow out of our shiny penny fascination syndrome.
    Last edited by kcantor; 08-06-2019 at 12:55 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    i didn't write this but a friend if mine did. a nordic spa would be a great addition to the city but i'm also of the opinion this is not the best location for it...

    "I suspect that a Nordic Spa would be a welcome attraction somewhere in our region/city, and I appreciate cash flow and overall utilization are legitimate considerations for Fort Edmonton management, but someone is going to have to explain to me how this sort of ultra-modern, commercial operation is consistent with the purpose of Fort Edmonton, its mission and stated objects from its Master Plan:


    "- A clear commitment to historical and cultural integrity, including a commitment to retain Fort Edmonton Park’s status as a recognized museum by the Alberta Museum Association.
    "- An increased emphasis on bringing Edmonton’s history to life through sound research by historians and curators and by increasing opportunities for visitors to interact with knowledgeable, well-trained interpreters.
    "- Ensuring technology is used to complement, not drive, storytelling.
    "- Revision to some proposed capital projects. For example, the Wilderness Waters attractions were removed and replaced with an Attractions Zone that will be further explored within the objectives of historical and cultural integrity.


    "What exactly does a nordic spa have to do with the history and culture of Edmonton. Should the spa be located within the Fort Edmonton museum complex?"

    one day perhaps we will be able to grow out of our shiny penny fascination syndrome.
    Certainly seems as if Fort Edmonton management is driven by something other than what's stated in their master plan:

    Fort Edmonton Park’s president and CEO Darren Dalgleish said he met with the group interested in creating the Edmonton Nordic Spa — who are also behind the Kananaskis Nordic Spa — late last year to talk about what it would look like to build a facility in the river valley.

    “I was really excited about this because this is exactly the direction of our strategic plan at Fort Edmonton Management Company (FEMCo) and that is to bring new product into the area that would enrich our product mix,” Dalgleish said. “This was a perfect fit.”
    Source: https://edmontonjournal.com/news/loc...-park-property

  42. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by OffWhyte View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    i didn't write this but a friend if mine did. a nordic spa would be a great addition to the city but i'm also of the opinion this is not the best location for it...

    "I suspect that a Nordic Spa would be a welcome attraction somewhere in our region/city, and I appreciate cash flow and overall utilization are legitimate considerations for Fort Edmonton management, but someone is going to have to explain to me how this sort of ultra-modern, commercial operation is consistent with the purpose of Fort Edmonton, its mission and stated objects from its Master Plan:


    "- A clear commitment to historical and cultural integrity, including a commitment to retain Fort Edmonton Park’s status as a recognized museum by the Alberta Museum Association.
    "- An increased emphasis on bringing Edmonton’s history to life through sound research by historians and curators and by increasing opportunities for visitors to interact with knowledgeable, well-trained interpreters.
    "- Ensuring technology is used to complement, not drive, storytelling.
    "- Revision to some proposed capital projects. For example, the Wilderness Waters attractions were removed and replaced with an Attractions Zone that will be further explored within the objectives of historical and cultural integrity.


    "What exactly does a nordic spa have to do with the history and culture of Edmonton. Should the spa be located within the Fort Edmonton museum complex?"

    one day perhaps we will be able to grow out of our shiny penny fascination syndrome.
    Certainly seems as if Fort Edmonton management is driven by something other than what's stated in their master plan:

    Fort Edmonton Park’s president and CEO Darren Dalgleish said he met with the group interested in creating the Edmonton Nordic Spa — who are also behind the Kananaskis Nordic Spa — late last year to talk about what it would look like to build a facility in the river valley.

    “I was really excited about this because this is exactly the direction of our strategic plan at Fort Edmonton Management Company (FEMCo) and that is to bring new product into the area that would enrich our product mix,” Dalgleish said. “This was a perfect fit.”
    Source: https://edmontonjournal.com/news/loc...-park-property
    Not to be too self-referential, but I see on their website that last year FEMCo launched a new strategic direction that seems to veer away from the 2009 Master Plan, to wit:
    Fort Edmonton Management Company (FEMCo) is embarking on an exciting new strategic direction for Fort Edmonton Park. “Fort Edmonton Park will become the premier cultural tourism attraction in Western Canada. This is a huge undertaking and the top three strategic priorities that we’ll focus on are relevant experiences, accessibility and ensuring the Park is financially sustainable,” says Darren Dalgleish, President & CEO.

    “Fort Edmonton Management Company (FEMCo) was created to drive enterprise and efficiency, which is essential for the sustainability of this cultural tourism attraction. The board and I are committed to increasing the social value of Fort Edmonton Park in our community and this region, and Darren and his team are building on a number of strengths to execute this” says Don Cummings, FEMCo Board Chair.
    Source: https://www.fortedmontonpark.ca/fep-...gic-direction/

    I'm always a little leery of publicly-funded entities proclaiming to strive for things like "enterprise". Driven by the profit motif of private industry yet burdened by bureaucracy of government, such undertakings usually inherit the worst traits of both worlds.

  43. #43

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    “It’ll fill our hotel, it will be an enormous boon for our food and beverage because FEMCo will provide all of the food and beverage in the spa and then the specific partnership arrangements between us and the Edmonton Nordic Spa ownership group, we haven’t worked that out yet. But it will be a true partnership in every sense of the word.”

  44. #44

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    I like to see the City trying to find ways to offset having the taxpayer subsidize everything. The simple lack of signage for Fort Edmonton Park always mystified me.

    We had and still largely have a situation where tourists are likely driving right by a great attraction but receiving near zero advance notice of it’s presence up ahead, and then little directional assistance in guiding them to the park.

    So every dollar not earned from a tourist is thus another dollar out of the pockets of taxpayers. A find situation during our boom years but possibly a significant lost opportunity. Then, of course, during our repeated and protracted tough years we just resort to our well known practice of: deferring, declining and demolishing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    I like to see the City trying to find ways to offset having the taxpayer subsidize everything. The simple lack of signage for Fort Edmonton Park always mystified me.

    We had and still largely have a situation where tourists are likely driving right by a great attraction but receiving near zero advance notice of it’s presence up ahead, and then little directional assistance in guiding them to the park.

    So every dollar not earned from a tourist is thus another dollar out of the pockets of taxpayers. A find situation during our boom years but possibly a significant lost opportunity. Then, of course, during our repeated and protracted tough years we just resort to our well known practice of: deferring, declining and demolishing.
    This is very seldom mentioned but lots of the time I hear from people that even have moved here that they had trouble finding the park, or didn't find it at all. If we think back, each one of us, the first drive to the park was tricky. Sometimes you miss the one turnoff (no other way to get to it) and you have do double back a long distance to get back to the turnoff again.

    The wayfinding for this is like they don't want visitors. Is there also any way to have another entrance to this, and a better entrance? The current one is like its a detour arrangement. The whole Fort Edmonton development and entry was poorly thought out from the beginning. This is as hard to find as Snow Valley for visitors.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    “It’ll fill our hotel, it will be an enormous boon for our food and beverage because FEMCo will provide all of the food and beverage in the spa and then the specific partnership arrangements between us and the Edmonton Nordic Spa ownership group, we haven’t worked that out yet. But it will be a true partnership in every sense of the word.”
    I can't see how it will fill their hotel. A scandinavian modern spa and a historical museum park do not seem like common bedfellows. I think being in the city it will have more day visits rather than overnight packages.

    The food and beverage part sure, but that doesn't seem like big dollars.

    I think the PArkland one will probably be more in tune with the nordic spa concept.

    But, it's private dollars and the lease will be subsidizing city activities, so seems worth a try.

  48. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by nobleea

    I can't see how it will fill their hotel. A scandinavian modern spa and a historical museum park do not seem like common bedfellows. I think being in the city it will have more day visits rather than overnight packages.
    A Nordic Spa is primarily popular in the winter time, whereas Fort Edmonton runs during the summer, so the on site hotel mostly sits empty in the winter, and would be there to be utilized by anyone coming from Red Deer, Fort Mac, Calgary, or even out of province or country to use the spa over a multi-day period.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nobleea View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    “It’ll fill our hotel, it will be an enormous boon for our food and beverage because FEMCo will provide all of the food and beverage in the spa and then the specific partnership arrangements between us and the Edmonton Nordic Spa ownership group, we haven’t worked that out yet. But it will be a true partnership in every sense of the word.”
    I can't see how it will fill their hotel. A scandinavian modern spa and a historical museum park do not seem like common bedfellows. I think being in the city it will have more day visits rather than overnight packages.

    The food and beverage part sure, but that doesn't seem like big dollars.

    I think the PArkland one will probably be more in tune with the nordic spa concept.

    But, it's private dollars and the lease will be subsidizing city activities, so seems worth a try.
    ii can't see how it will "fill their hotel" either...

    according to the hotel's web site:

    "Hotel Selkirk is open for guest stays throughout the summer and on select days in the fall, winter, and spring. In addition to all the Park amenities, you can also enhance your stay by taking in an event, dine in Johnson's Café, or have a drink in theMahogany Room bar."

    which, if i understand the concepts correctly, means the spa - which is pretty much a winter activity - will pretty much be open when the hotel - and the rest of the park for that matter - will pretty much be closed.

    and then there's the matter of scale... the hotel selkirk offers a grand total of 29 rooms. even at an average $150 per night nights for half a year for each room, that's just over $750k in gross income for fort edmonton park which, at typical hotel margins - which i'm not sure the selkirk can actually achieve with only 29 rooms - would barely add $75k at best to their bottom line...

    i'm not opposed to a nordic spa in the river valley and i support fort edmonton park's goal to be a major tourist destination. i'm just not convinced this is a good marriage as opposed to say integrating the spa into rossdale where it would be accessible to more hotels and more residents and adding a "hop on hop off" bus that would include downtown's hotels and the convention centre and the spa and fort edmonton park and west edmonton mall and telus world of science etc. on it's loops...
    Last edited by kcantor; 11-06-2019 at 11:01 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ustauk View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by nobleea

    I can't see how it will fill their hotel. A scandinavian modern spa and a historical museum park do not seem like common bedfellows. I think being in the city it will have more day visits rather than overnight packages.
    A Nordic Spa is primarily popular in the winter time, whereas Fort Edmonton runs during the summer, so the on site hotel mostly sits empty in the winter, and would be there to be utilized by anyone coming from Red Deer, Fort Mac, Calgary, or even out of province or country to use the spa over a multi-day period.
    If such a client existed. I don't think this location will see a lot of overnight visitors. And if they do, they would probably stay at a more modern and central hotel in Edmonton. For example, a girls weekend might involve a spa day, shopping, dining out, and maybe a concert or show. Staying at a hotel that is at least walking distance to some of those attractions would be more attractive.

    The parkland one I can see being more of a retreat better suited for a quiet weekend.

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    the hotel runs on on 10% occupancy the one article said yet they want to expand the hotel to hold more people. Seems a bit lofty to do that

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    Proposed zoning changes for nordic spa near Fort Edmonton Park
    August 28, 2019

    Edmontonians are invited to a drop-in engagement session to learn more about proposed zoning changes related to a nordic spa at 7000 143 Street NW.

    Date: Wednesday, September 4
    Time: 5:30 – 8 p.m.
    Location: Whitemud Equine Learning Centre Association, 12504 Fox Drive NW

    The City has received a proposal to add personal service shops and increase the flexibility for restaurants and specialty food services use in a portion of the River Valley Activity Node (AN) zone. The addition of these uses to the zone would facilitate the development of a nordic spa adjacent to Fort Edmonton Park. The proposed changes would apply only to Appendix 1 of the zone, which includes only the Fort Edmonton Park and nordic spa sites.

    The engagement session will be an opportunity to learn more about the proposal and share your views with the City and the applicant, B&A Planning Group. Feedback will be summarized in a report to City Council for decision at a City Council Public Hearing.


    For more information:
    edmonton.ca/nordicspazoning

    Media contact:
    Karen Burgess
    Communications Advisor
    Communications and Engagement
    780-496-4908
    www.decl.org

    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

  53. #53

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    Yes, more commercial activity in the valley. Maybe a nice mall in Victoria Park. Or a pet shop at the zoo.

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    ^^ I'll make it if I can
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