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Thread: Amazon looking for a place to put HQ #2

  1. #101

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    ...

    I think the mayors words are a bit confusing here. I didn't think he means they have to approach us for a RFP, but their approach in dealing with us would have to be respectful, I guess as opposed to demanding too much. There is an upcoming election, so I suspect the mayor doesn't want to be accused of giving away too much, so hence the cautious comment. I don't know if it really means that much more than that though.
    perhaps... but the tone still makes no sense to me, election or not. nenshi's tone was on the other end of the scale and he's facing the same election date. i think part of my frustration is that a mayor's comments in situations like this are pretty much irrelevant to a party like amazon, particularly when they're being given to the press and not to amazon. they are however, pretty relevant to edmontonians and how we perceive our city and our potential.

    nenshi took the opportunity to reinforce to calgarians many of the things that are still great about their city despite the current downturn (including direct air connections to seattle ). those things that were obliquely referenced in that "innovation corridor" need to front and centre and we need to beat ourselves up with them over and over until we recognize there value and hearing about them doesn't surprise us.

    as for giving away too much, i'm not sure there would ever be a too much here. what amazon is proposing in terms of infrastructure investment with their own capital and with their own reputation is on the far end of the scale when compared to what convergys bought and brought.

    we invested half a billion in the arena and have already seen that investment pay off handsomely despite those who still say we gave away too much. how can there be too much in the way of tax concessions if we're talking about giving them the northlands site as an example? the city receives no direct taxes from that site now and isn't likely to for the foreseeable future so continuing to receive nothing isn't really that big of a concession is it? compare that with the hotel rooms that would go up around them or compare that with the employment they would bring and the taxes their employees would pay on their incomes and their homes and through the businesses they would support and add the education dollars they would drive and the added airline connections they would bring etc. etc. etc.
    I'd say include the Northlands site including a repurposed coliseum. (Any loss of functionality could be re-created somewhere else in the city.

    Has anyone mentioned the fact that we can provide near unlimited cooling for part of the year, free of charge. As they automate more and more over time I'd guess that the cooling costs might be a significant cost factor until technology reduces that need.


    Also I believe I saw mention of security of supply electricity. That could be largely renewable (we have long hours of sunshine) but fully backstopped via natural gas supply. The current planned move away from coal could also be an opportunity to size and plan replacement generation according to their needs.
    Last edited by KC; 11-09-2017 at 07:04 PM.

  2. #102
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    If Calgary gets this it would be sad for us, they've already gotten so much. Would still be Alberta though I guess. Good for us as a whole.
    Last edited by Drumbones; 11-09-2017 at 11:44 PM.

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    I would give them Blatchford or Northlands and all the tax breaks they need. This would be a massage game changer for Edmonton. In my fantasy world, I wish I could give them every empty lot between 105st and 108st north of Jasper Ave up to 103ave.
    I don't realistically think we have a chance, but I would throw everything at them just in case.

  4. #104

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    Northlands is an interesting idea. I could get behind offering land there for development, but offering them the whole shebang would be unwise. If we were to offer them northlands then I would have the city service it, build the streets, and then offer the land on a low-cost least as they are ready to build - and make other portions of the land available on the same terms to other companies.

    In reality, though, I don't think Amazon is really looking for a suburban campus, and wherever they go it will be to a downtown or downtown fringe.
    There can only be one.

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    why not lease them northlands for the same deal northlands had it? no actual loss to the city going forward from what they have received in the past. the lease could be subject to minimum levels of additional improvements being completed or the landlord gets to terminate portions of the lease. never mind making use of the coliseum, they may even be able to make use of the expo centre (which could be excluded if they don't want it) and if they do those monies could be put toward the expansion of shaw instead of having shaw operate a "split" convention centre (which is still drastically better than two entities operating competing facilities).
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  6. #106

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    ^ I think the realistic scenario is that there will be a bidding war. We can play "no deals" but that will simply mean "no deal". I'm sure we can come up with a good incentive, but my primary concern would be the flights. Unless the city and EIA can negotiate an agreement with airlines to provide the flights that are part of the RFP, Edmonton is out of the running.
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  7. #107

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    ...

    I think the mayors words are a bit confusing here. I didn't think he means they have to approach us for a RFP, but their approach in dealing with us would have to be respectful, I guess as opposed to demanding too much. There is an upcoming election, so I suspect the mayor doesn't want to be accused of giving away too much, so hence the cautious comment. I don't know if it really means that much more than that though.
    perhaps... but the tone still makes no sense to me, election or not. nenshi's tone was on the other end of the scale and he's facing the same election date. i think part of my frustration is that a mayor's comments in situations like this are pretty much irrelevant to a party like amazon, particularly when they're being given to the press and not to amazon. they are however, pretty relevant to edmontonians and how we perceive our city and our potential.

    nenshi took the opportunity to reinforce to calgarians many of the things that are still great about their city despite the current downturn (including direct air connections to seattle ). those things that were obliquely referenced in that "innovation corridor" need to front and centre and we need to beat ourselves up with them over and over until we recognize there value and hearing about them doesn't surprise us.

    as for giving away too much, i'm not sure there would ever be a too much here. what amazon is proposing in terms of infrastructure investment with their own capital and with their own reputation is on the far end of the scale when compared to what convergys bought and brought.

    we invested half a billion in the arena and have already seen that investment pay off handsomely despite those who still say we gave away too much. how can there be too much in the way of tax concessions if we're talking about giving them the northlands site as an example? the city receives no direct taxes from that site now and isn't likely to for the foreseeable future so continuing to receive nothing isn't really that big of a concession is it? compare that with the hotel rooms that would go up around them or compare that with the employment they would bring and the taxes their employees would pay on their incomes and their homes and through the businesses they would support and add the education dollars they would drive and the added airline connections they would bring etc. etc. etc.
    I'd say include the Northlands site including a repurposed coliseum. (Any loss of functionality could be re-created somewhere else in the city.

    Has anyone mentioned the fact that we can provide near unlimited cooling for part of the year, free of charge. As they automate more and more over time I'd guess that the cooling costs might be a significant cost factor until technology reduces that need.


    Also I believe I saw mention of security of supply electricity. That could be largely renewable (we have long hours of sunshine) but fully backstopped via natural gas supply. The current planned move away from coal could also be an opportunity to size and plan replacement generation according to their needs.
    I think Nenshi's tone is a bit different as downtown Calgary has a huge number of vacant spaces they are desperately trying to fill. It is also messing with their property tax valuation system, the decreased valuation downtown is causing big increases in taxes suburban areas so it is a big political problem there too. Nenshi is apparently more popular in Edmonton than in Calgary now, whereas our mayor doesn't seem to be have any credible opponents so he can take a more measured response.

    I think the most important thing is to submit a proposal and see where it goes. Amazon doesn't care much about what the mayors say or their tone.

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    Nenshi would be willing to sell the farm to get it....but we all know it's not going to ANY city in Canada...so who cares....

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    While James Thompson, the former Amazon employee interviewed for the Star article, used to work for Amazon he was in middle management and not an executive so who's to say what Amazon's strategic objectives might be (i.e. how important would factors such as nationalism be, immigration policies, geographic locale). Clearly high on their priority list is a sweetheart deal whether it be free land or tax concessions. That is one area where American cities would probably have an advantage in offering a business friendly environment. Obtaining and retaining talent would also be a first or second priority. As for ease of air travel, several thousand employees paying top fare (whether it be economy or business class) to fly on a regular basis would be an incentive for any carrier to adjust their business plans and routes.

    Edmonton would have an advantage in terms of cost of living to be sure, the availability of land to building housing that is affordable. One of biggest hurdle would be marketing the city to outsiders as a center of culture and entertainment. That would be something that Toronto would have have an advantage (3 profession sports teams, theater, TIFF etc) as would its proximity to the UofT, Waterloo and all the other universities in the region, plus a major airport hub.

    No harm in trying though, this is an exercise that any city looking to engage in the "New Economy" should participate in, it's an ongoing priority.
    Last edited by norwoodguy; 12-09-2017 at 08:57 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    (...)


    Also I believe I saw mention of security of supply electricity. That could be largely renewable (we have long hours of sunshine) but fully backstopped via natural gas supply. The current planned move away from coal could also be an opportunity to size and plan replacement generation according to their needs.

    I'm sorry, but BAWHAHAHAHA....renewables....one of the many issues I have with the Fort McMurray 550Kv line referenced in another thread is the lack of connection to renewables. It connects bitumen power for export to the USA. PERIOD.

    Plus, when I was asking where the new solar/wind plants were going on this unnecessary line...I was told there wasn't any. So, since this line destroys about 160+ acres of my land for anything organic or residential...I offered up the land for a solar farm. It is south facing, has the slope naturally in the right direction, and would be immediately adjacent this new line. The province, ATCO, and others laughed at me and said this was not worth it... Yup...plenty of sunshine...blown right up our *AHEM*

    Sorry to digress...but if we are going to push renewables, and the government just invested 1.6B into an unnecessary line to connect hydrocarbons to the grid...well...if we push renewables...then we'd better deliver. Our track record is abysmal...and Amazon will see right through it...
    Onward and upward

  12. #112

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    This is a case of Amazon trying to get the various cities/states/ to bid against each other in order to get the best possible deal knowing full well there are only 2 or 3 candidates they would actually consider. This is Amazon we are talking about, not the Red Cross.

  13. #113

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    This bid will be extremely high profile. All Edmonton needs to do is show that they tick the boxes. Other corporations will be paying close attention to this, and if they are looking to set up a Canadian HQ, they'll see Edmonton as a legitimate option. This could be one of the most effective marketing campaigns that EEDC can engage in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whattagame View Post
    This bid will be extremely high profile. All Edmonton needs to do is show that they tick the boxes. Other corporations will be paying close attention to this, and if they are looking to set up a Canadian HQ, they'll see Edmonton as a legitimate option. This could be one of the most effective marketing campaigns that EEDC can engage in.
    Agreed. While it's not 'free' marketing, it is pretty low cost in that they wouldn't have to send delegations to hundreds of other companies extolling the virtues of YEG.

  15. #115

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    Good thing we have good immigration policy, because we sure aren't pumping out massive amounts of software engineers.

    This is probably one of those, ask for more information RFP's where you end up being disappointed in the information you receive. The category percentages of workforce requirements would be what I would want to know. Also, while Edmonton is connected by Fiber, I wouldn't say we are well connected. For me, that is the one red flag that jumps out. Others have pointed out that we are the most northern city in North America and that is problematic from a connectivity perspective. If a fiber connection is spliced outgoing from Edmonton, that would be a large problem. I'm not a network engineer, but I believe we connect west coast through Vancouver and east through Toronto/Chicago. I don't know if we route through Calgary or how we connect out east. Given that building that infrastructure isn't cheap, I would imagine a company such as Amazon wanting something with a more robust backbone than Edmonton can offer, unfortunately.
    Last edited by Moodib; 14-09-2017 at 12:59 PM.

  16. #116

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    ^Speaking of immigration, TEC Edmonton has a relationship with Tsinghua University's business incubator, which is unique in Canada. Tsinghua University's Comp Sci program is highly regarded, up there with MIT. It could be a pipeline for Chinese talent. Definitely something to advertise and even if Amazon does't work out, might be interesting to other firms.

    https://www.usnews.com/education/bes...mputer-science

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    Perception is everything... a cold industrial city with a high murder rate... just what Amazon is looking for...

    Edmonton has Canada's highest big city homicide rate: how the city's violent year stacks up
    http://edmontonjournal.com/news/loca...year-stacks-up

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    ^ That's the spirit
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    ^ That's the spirit
    My point being, is that if we want to be taken seriously, our work starts at home. I love Edmonton and would be thrilled if Amazon chose us, but the reality is we have lots of work to do to regain our image and self-pride that imo has steadily deteriorated since the mid eighties.

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    Quote Originally Posted by edTel View Post
    Perception is everything... a cold industrial city with a high murder rate... just what Amazon is looking for...

    Edmonton has Canada's highest big city homicide rate: how the city's violent year stacks up
    http://edmontonjournal.com/news/loca...year-stacks-up
    well perception might be everything but in this context (amazon) your perception is completely out of context and entirely wrong.

    the following is a list of american cities with the highest homicide rates per 100,000: st. louis 59.3/baltimore 51.2/detroit 45.2/new orleans 44.5/cleveland 34.7/newark 33.4/memphis 32.5/chicago 27.9/kansas 26.6/atlanta 23.9/milwaukee 21.8/oakland 20.3/washington dc 20.1/pittsburgh 18.2/philidelphia 17.7/buffalo 17.0/indianapolis 16.8/fort wayne 16.6/louisville 16.5...

    amazon's existing head office is in seattle which has the 78th lowest of 94 american cities' homicide rates at 3.4 per 100,000.

    by comparison, the city of edmonton's homicide rate last year (which would be higher than for the region) was 3.4 per 100,000.
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    Ken I am well aware of US homicide rates being much higher than those in Canada. My point being if they choose to locate in Canada, Edmonton may not be their first choice due to perception (right or wrong) that this city is a cold industrial city with not much to offer their workers and having the highest homicide rate in the country. Again the point I am trying to make is that we can blame the media all we want but if we as a city are not going to do what's needed to fix our image problem and our obvious homicide problem then lets stop complaining about the fact that we can't attract any corporation to relocate and can't stop those that have relocated and those that will continue to relocate.

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    How do you propose we solve our 'homicide problem'? Profiling?
    Last edited by SP59; 24-09-2017 at 04:40 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SP59 View Post
    How do you propose we solve our 'homicide problem'? Profiling?
    Why the snarky comment? Obviously there is no easy answer as many police chiefs and mayors have tried various solutions. So I guess then according to you we should just give up and accept the fact that it will always be this way?

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    Unless people are randomly getting gunned down in the middle of the street or are targeting white collar professionals (and is not mostly due to drug gangs taking each other out), the murder rate is highly irrelevant for these type of decisions. Toronto's got a high murder count (last one I heard was a realtor gunned down inside a busy restaurant) and yet they are regarded as one of the front runners for Amazon HQ2.

    That said, it is true that the local media and the provincial-minded hicks who embody a good chunk of it don't do us any favors with their sensationalist, negative portrayals of the city.

    That's why we employ guys like Brad Ferguson to promote this city to the business world.

    And I cannot stress this enough - that's why it is vital that they sell Amazon on Edmonton's virtues even if there's little chance of winning HQ2 because that could lead other opportunities with them down the road.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  25. #125

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Unless people are randomly getting gunned down in the middle of the street or are targeting white collar professionals (and is not mostly due to drug gangs taking each other out), the murder rate is highly irrelevant for these type of decisions. Toronto's got a high murder count (last one I heard was a realtor gunned down inside a busy restaurant) and yet they are regarded as one of the front runners for Amazon HQ2.

    That said, it is true that the local media and the provincial-minded hicks who embody a good chunk of it don't do us any favors with their sensationalist, negative portrayals of the city.

    That's why we employ guys like Brad Ferguson to promote this city to the business world.

    And I cannot stress this enough - that's why it is vital that they sell Amazon on Edmonton's virtues even if there's little chance of winning HQ2 because that could lead other opportunities with them down the road.

    interesting article in the Vancouver Sun.

    http://vancouversun.com/business/com...etro-vancouver

  26. #126

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    Quote Originally Posted by edTel View Post
    Perception is everything... a cold industrial city with a high murder rate... just what Amazon is looking for...

    Edmonton has Canada's highest big city homicide rate: how the city's violent year stacks up
    http://edmontonjournal.com/news/loca...year-stacks-up
    I doubt those decisions are made on the basis of a newspaper headline. If Amazon wanted to do it that way they would have just read all the local newspapers instead of asking for a request for proposals.

    Every city has its pluses and minuses - some other places are "rainy, earthquake and tsunami prone with high housing prices". Now that pithy type of headline style description doesn't sound so great either.

    While this is a serious problem we need to do more about, I don't get the feeling that most Edmontonians perceive our city to be as dangerous as some of the newspaper headlines portray.

    I support 100% that we need to try make our city safer, but it really has nothing to do with Amazon. We need to do it for ourselves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by edTel View Post
    Perception is everything... a cold industrial city with a high murder rate... just what Amazon is looking for...

    Edmonton has Canada's highest big city homicide rate: how the city's violent year stacks up
    http://edmontonjournal.com/news/loca...year-stacks-up
    I doubt those decisions are made on the basis of a newspaper headline. If Amazon wanted to do it that way they would have just read all the local newspapers instead of asking for a request for proposals.

    Every city has its pluses and minuses - some other places are "rainy, earthquake and tsunami prone with high housing prices". Now that pithy type of headline style description doesn't sound so great either.

    While this is a serious problem we need to do more about, I don't get the feeling that most Edmontonians perceive our city to be as dangerous as some of the newspaper headlines portray.

    I support 100% that we need to try make our city safer, but it really has nothing to do with Amazon. We need to do it for ourselves.
    I agree that we should do it for ourselves but obviously that motivation by itself has not resulted in any significant action. I would also agree that we perceive ourselves as a relatively safe city, but outside of Edmonton the view is not the same and is only reinforced by headlines such as this that we cannot dispute as the facts speak for themselves. Of course Amazon is not going to make a decision based on one headline but the negative national publicity that we seem to attract as a city far outweighs the positive imo.

  28. #128

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    ^fix the crime rate and Amazon will come.... Actually, probably not. There were some suggestions the highest two rated cities are Denver and Calgary, if that happened it would match my suggestion that the executives are skiiers. I don't think it will be either City though. I would bet on Dallas, or Boston.

  29. #129

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    ^Do you have any solid evidence (as in a web page) that says Denver and Calgary were the two highest rated cities or are you just spinning your Calgary shtick again.
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    There was an article in the Financial post written by, you guessed it a Calgary columnist. She was trying to rub it in Toronto's face.
    http://business.financialpost.com/ne...in-amazons-hq2
    Last edited by Glenco; 25-09-2017 at 06:29 PM. Reason: added link.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco View Post
    There was an article in the Financial post written by, you guessed it a Calgary columnist. She was trying to rub it in Toronto's face.
    http://business.financialpost.com/ne...in-amazons-hq2
    I just threw up a little in my mouth. "Calgary and the ALBERTA gov't will subsidize this?" Must be sad living in her little dream world.

  32. #132

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    ^Yup, all the 'third party' people who think Calgary are in the running are not connected to Amazon. The 'third parties' are just spinning their wheels. They think if they think positive it will come true.
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

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    Quote Originally Posted by edTel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SP59 View Post
    How do you propose we solve our 'homicide problem'? Profiling?
    Why the snarky comment? Obviously there is no easy answer as many police chiefs and mayors have tried various solutions. So I guess then according to you we should just give up and accept the fact that it will always be this way?
    The homocide problem is not something the city can fix. Do you want to start banning people who you think might become murderers or victims from the city?
    Last edited by SP59; 25-09-2017 at 09:55 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    ^Yup, all the 'third party' people who think Calgary are in the running are not connected to Amazon. The 'third parties' are just spinning their wheels. They think if they think positive it will come true.
    Unamed, "third party?" LMAO.

    but, but, the Flames need a new arena and unamed third parties say they've finished negotiating, thereby hugely increasing the credibility of unamed third parties. Of course. For sure. You bet yer hippy.

    Piffle. I go back to my original statement that we, and Calgary for that matter, should put in bids - not because either of us stands a chance, but because it will give each of us bodies of work with which to seek something more attainable in the future that either of us just might get.

    Me? Betting Denver or east coast.
    ... gobsmacked

  35. #135

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    Quote Originally Posted by maclac View Post
    I just threw up a little in my mouth. "Calgary and the ALBERTA gov't will subsidize this?" Must be sad living in her little dream world.
    NDP has said they are helping Edmonton and Calgary with their bids, so I think that's a given. I think its unlikely it goes to Calgary or Denver, but I wouldn't understate the skiing thing - I have seen that before as being an influencing factor for some executives.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SP59 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by edTel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SP59 View Post
    How do you propose we solve our 'homicide problem'? Profiling?
    Why the snarky comment? Obviously there is no easy answer as many police chiefs and mayors have tried various solutions. So I guess then according to you we should just give up and accept the fact that it will always be this way?
    The homocide problem is not something the city can fix. Do you want to start banning people who you think might become murderers or victims from the city?
    Not sure why you have such a negative attitude? There are a number of things that can be done to address the root problems of alcohol and substance abuse, gangs, offender release programs, working with the aboriginal community to name a few. None of these are quick fixes but doing nothing is not an option if we want to be taken seriously in attracting new business into our community. Perhaps my optimism is due to the fact that I can remember a time when Edmonton did not lead the nation most years in homicide rates, when downtown was perceived as a safe and welcoming place. Call me idealistic if you want but lets start thinking of solutions rather than just putting up with the status quo.

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    Skiing as an "incentive?" Yeah maybe, but enough with the "Calgary UNLIKELY" getting it. It's simply NOT happening, if they do - I will be the new "Times Square Cowboy" for Churchill Square. Mark my words!!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekenpaN95Es

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    What "homocide" problem? I dont' see a problem. Do you see a problem? What I see is people "getting their own." None of our homicides are violent crimes on the innocent. With maybe 1 - 2 exceptions - these people had it coming. Sorry to all of those who I think I'm not politically correct...I'm not, just call them as I see them.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by edTel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SP59 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by edTel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SP59 View Post
    How do you propose we solve our 'homicide problem'? Profiling?
    Why the snarky comment? Obviously there is no easy answer as many police chiefs and mayors have tried various solutions. So I guess then according to you we should just give up and accept the fact that it will always be this way?
    The homocide problem is not something the city can fix. Do you want to start banning people who you think might become murderers or victims from the city?
    Not sure why you have such a negative attitude? There are a number of things that can be done to address the root problems of alcohol and substance abuse, gangs, offender release programs, working with the aboriginal community to name a few. None of these are quick fixes but doing nothing is not an option if we want to be taken seriously in attracting new business into our community. Perhaps my optimism is due to the fact that I can remember a time when Edmonton did not lead the nation most years in homicide rates, when downtown was perceived as a safe and welcoming place. Call me idealistic if you want but lets start thinking of solutions rather than just putting up with the status quo.

    Are these things municipal responsibilities or provincial?

  40. #140

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    One factor that I'm sure Amazon is watching is what the US Govt is going to do for tax reform, whenever they get around to it.
    I feel in no way entitled to your opinion...

  41. #141

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    any article being printed online is mentioning calgary in the running not edmonton. I came across one on TechCrunch even...

    Meanwhile in edmonton. Zzzzzz

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    Quote Originally Posted by SP59 View Post


    Are these things municipal responsibilities or provincial?
    I see opportunities for the city to partner with all 3 levels of government in these initiatives. If they are not coming to the table, we must initiate.

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    FFS are you guys done with the gang murder derail? Can we discuss the Amazon bid if that's OK with you?
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    One factor that I'm sure Amazon is watching is what the US Govt is going to do for tax reform, whenever they get around to it.
    Low taxation was one of the virtues that Premier Notley was touting here:

    Alberta creates leadership team to help Calgary and Edmonton fine tune Amazon pitches
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...team-1.4306603

    Good move by the province to get involved. If there's a good way of diversifying an oil-dependent economy, Amazon HQ2 would help.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    Quote Originally Posted by McBoo View Post
    Me? Betting Denver or east coast.
    Atlanta is a strong possibility as well. One of the best connected airports in the world, geographically fairly central (if you account for population distribution), nice climate, not on any significant fault lines (I think that's honestly one of the biggest things motivating Amazon to build a second HQ, at some point in the next 50 years Seattle is likely to get hit with a massive earthquake and/or tsunami), and has a growing tech industry.
    Last edited by Marcel Petrin; 27-09-2017 at 11:12 AM.

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    Default Slip of the tongue?

    He said they’re not only trying to lure e-commerce giant Amazon to Edmonton, but Alibaba as well.

    My bolding and underline.

    https://globalnews.ca/news/3771028/n...medium=Twitter
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  47. #147

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco View Post
    He said they’re not only trying to lure e-commerce giant Amazon to Edmonton, but Alibaba as well.

    My bolding and underline.

    https://globalnews.ca/news/3771028/n...medium=Twitter
    There have been other hints towards a pursuit of Alibaba this year:
    http://edmontonjournal.com/business/...-official-says
    https://www.ualberta.ca/business/cen...tional-speaker
    Last edited by bolo; 28-09-2017 at 02:45 AM.

  48. #148

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    The writer is kinda wingnutty in his delivery, but here's an alternate take on who wins in the Amazon HQ2 Contest:
    https://spectator.org/hq2-pu-e-2-som...for-proposals/
    I feel in no way entitled to your opinion...

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    All Edmonton can do is sell its strengths. We have an educated workforce.
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  50. #150

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    The writer is kinda wingnutty in his delivery, but here's an alternate take on who wins in the Amazon HQ2 Contest:
    https://spectator.org/hq2-pu-e-2-som...for-proposals/
    Yes, there is a certain wing nuttiness to rigid ideologues both on the left and the right and I see some of it in this article. He does have a point, but it is also like trying to predict the future with certainty - one may not be right. Yes, it could end up being a bad deal if the "winning" city gives up too much and gets too little in return, but that is not necessarily or even the likely outcome. I will call that the desperate city scenario. Another possible outcome is that a city that is a good candidate anyways (ie. not that desperate), makes a good bid with some inducements.

    I think the cities that are most likely to get this are not going to bid as if they are really desperate and those that truly are desperate will offer a lot more inducements, but will be too weak on other criteria to be seriously considered. A city like Denver, Austin or say Atlanta, does not "need" Amazon, although it would be nice to have and a desperate city could throw all the money it has (if it has any) at this, but that still might not be enough to offset poor infrastructure, high crime and low education rates.

  51. #151

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    Amazon must pay US$295 million in back taxes, EU says
    BRUSSELS -- The European Union is telling member state Luxembourg to get $295 million in back taxes from Amazon, in Brussels' latest regulatory move targeting U.S. tech companies accused of tax avoidance.
    EU Commissioner Margrethe Vestager also took Ireland to court for failing to collect a massive 13 billion euros ($15.3 billion) in taxes from Apple Inc., arguing that, like in Amazon's case, the company had profited from a system allowing it to escape most of its taxes the EU felt were due.
    Vestager said Wednesday that U.S. giant online retailer Amazon unfairly profited from special low tax conditions since 2003 in the tiny Grand Duchy, where its European headquarters are based.
    http://www.ctvnews.ca/business/amazo...says-1.3618316
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    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    i'm extremely pleased to see the collaboration and cooperation brad noted as having gone in to this proposal so far and i'm also proud to see it recognized as typical and not atypical for edmonton and to see government and government agencies start to recognize this and include it in their processes and responses.

    in addition to that, while i certainly respect the need for confidentiality as the process unfolds, i look forward to as much information as possible being made public as soon as possible that doesn't jeopardize the process. while it's important for amazon to be aware of the many unique things edmonton can offer, i think it's also important for edmontonians to be made aware of those things. we are all in our own circles able to influence and inform others but our ability to do that is restricted to what we know.

    the above doesn't extend to business terms or proprietary information but things like the value of our collaborative approach to things, our educational system and institutions, our health care system and institutions, our financial and political systems, our immigration policies, our banking and insurance industries, our sporting and our arts and entertainment cultures, our steadily improving transportation systems (not just local transit but provincial and national and continental and intercontinental), our weather and our lack of concern for things like hurricanes and earthquakes, our stable power and energy supply, our education and skill levels as a regions, the availability and affordability of a wide range of housing stock etc. - some of which have been mentioned at length already in this thread and elsewhere - need to be front of mind for all of us all of the time and not an after the fact "oh yeah... i wish i would have thought of that at the time before it was too late to mention it".
    Last edited by kcantor; 19-10-2017 at 11:51 AM.
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  54. #154

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    in addition to that, while i certainly respect the need for confidentiality as the process unfolds, i look forward to as much information as possible being made public as soon as possible that doesn't jeopardize the process. while it's important for amazon to be aware of the many unique things edmonton can offer, i think it's also important for edmontonians to be made aware of those things. we are all in our own circles able to influence and inform others but our ability to do that is restricted to what we know.
    I'm concerned about a non-government body putting forth the bid for the municipality, given that they're not subject to the same levels of legislated transparency that the government is subject to via the FOIP act. I certainly can understand the need for NDAs & confidentiality while the deal is ongoing, but putting our bid in via EEDC adds a level of opacity & obfuscation that's completely unneeded, especially after the deal is done.
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  55. #155

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    I'm hoping for an Alibaba/Amazon/Port Alberta collaboration (buy internationally, use local distribution networks/foreign trade zones to smooth the process).

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    in addition to that, while i certainly respect the need for confidentiality as the process unfolds, i look forward to as much information as possible being made public as soon as possible that doesn't jeopardize the process. while it's important for amazon to be aware of the many unique things edmonton can offer, i think it's also important for edmontonians to be made aware of those things. we are all in our own circles able to influence and inform others but our ability to do that is restricted to what we know.
    I'm concerned about a non-government body putting forth the bid for the municipality, given that they're not subject to the same levels of legislated transparency that the government is subject to via the FOIP act. I certainly can understand the need for NDAs & confidentiality while the deal is ongoing, but putting our bid in via EEDC adds a level of opacity & obfuscation that's completely unneeded, especially after the deal is done.
    i appreciate the concern but it's my understanding that what was submitted included a number of location options within the city/region. the strength of having those options cooperatively presented within a single submission adds much more substance and weight than what would be the cumulative effect of 2 or 4 or 6 individual submissions. not only does it demonstrative collaboration from the outset, it makes sure that there is only a single set of statistics being presented (there is nothing that detracts from credibility like getting and trying to review submissions that present conflicting information). it also ensure that there is no need - or less need - to substantiate the representations put forward on behalf of third parties (such as government if it's a private sector submission or the private sector if it's a government submission). this approach also provides the reviewer/decision maker in the process - in this case amazon - with a format that readily allows them to pick and choose "one from this basket and two from that one" that isn't possible when those baskets are put forward individually.
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  57. #157

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    Oh I'm certain there's plenty of pro-development reasons for them to do it the way they're doing, but it still strikes me as anti-democratic. The submission could still have been done exactly the way you describe, before being handed back/off/through a governmental body for the actual submission to Amazon to ensure FOIP access once the process is completed.

    (Your pitch to sell me on the pitch is well done, commensurate with your experience on these matters. I'm still not buying it.)
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    Quote Originally Posted by bolo View Post
    I'm hoping for an Alibaba/Amazon/Port Alberta collaboration (buy internationally, use local distribution networks/foreign trade zones to smooth the process).
    Alibaba is such crap, and so many complaints...

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Oh I'm certain there's plenty of pro-development reasons for them to do it the way they're doing, but it still strikes me as anti-democratic. The submission could still have been done exactly the way you describe, before being handed back/off/through a governmental body for the actual submission to Amazon to ensure FOIP access once the process is completed.

    (Your pitch to sell me on the pitch is well done, commensurate with your experience on these matters. I'm still not buying it.)
    maybe it's the sunshine and warm temperatures 2/3 of the way through october but i'm not sure what's "anti-democratic" or where foip enters in to it.

    firstly, i'm not sure who was invited/qualified to submit proposals as i've not seen the proposal call or any submissions made in response but i'm pretty sure amazon would have dictated who could submit so there rules may have required a government or governmental body to make the submission or submissions. even if individual submissions were possible, the private sector responders still have value in controlling their piece of the submission and being able to ensure that there was no favouritism being given to by government (or assumed to be made available, even in error) by competing private sector responders. that would seem to be to be more and not less democratic assuming democratic means being treated equally.

    as for foip, you can't foip a private sector submission so you would have less access and not more to information that the private entity elects not to disclose on their own. as for foiping a public submission (you seem to arguing both for private and for public at the same time), any private or proprietary information in a public submission would still be subject to being redacted at the request of the private or proprietary information's owner.
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  60. #160

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    maybe it's the sunshine and warm temperatures 2/3 of the way through october but i'm not sure what's "anti-democratic" or where foip enters in to it.
    An informed electorate is crucial to the success of any democracy. Hiding/obfuscating the deals our city is making ostensibly on our behalf behind opaque layers of private red tape prevents the electorate being informed of what the government is doing (ostensibly) on their behalf.

    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    firstly, i'm not sure who was invited/qualified to submit proposals as i've not seen the proposal call or any submissions made in response but i'm pretty sure amazon would have dictated who could submit so there rules may have required a government or governmental body to make the submission or submissions. even if individual submissions were possible, the private sector responders still have value in controlling their piece of the submission and being able to ensure that there was no favouritism being given to by government (or assumed to be made available, even in error) by competing private sector responders. that would seem to be to be more and not less democratic assuming democratic means being treated equally.
    But by handing it in through the private sector you're denying the public sector the same ability to control/review their contribution, to ensure that the private sector is not profiteering at the public's expense, to understand what concessions are being made & whether or not the deal is a good one for the electorate. All of the obligation, none of the information is a terrible way to treat the people who make Edmonton what it is.

    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    as for foip, you can't foip a private sector submission so you would have less access and not more to information that the private entity elects not to disclose on their own. as for foiping a public submission (you seem to arguing both for private and for public at the same time), any private or proprietary information in a public submission would still be subject to being redacted at the request of the private or proprietary information's owner.
    A potentially-heavily-redacted response is better than no response availability at all whatsoever.
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    I am curious to hear what submitters to this thread have to say regarding Calgary's massive PR campaign regarding this issue as compared to silence by most other Canadian Cities including Edmonton. Does it make a difference in the decision making process of Amazon?

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    I think Amazon is too sophisticated to be swayed by feel good PR campaigns. After all, that's the game they play. They've got their criteria (not all of it publicized) and will select among the proposals based on these criteria. (Including whether they want to have international branches).

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    PR stunts (which some other cities have done) could be seen as either clever or desperate. Not sure which would actually sway Amazon's decision makers.
    That said, it's yet another example of our tale of two cities: Calgary loud and brash, Edmonton quiet and self effacing.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    I haven't heard or read anything about the Calgary PR stunts.
    The only one that was unique and fun (though probably not effective) was the Kansas City one.
    Any of the real contenders didn't bother with the PR stunts because they know they don't need to.

    As has been mentioned, Amazon probably already had one or two places selected privately before all this and just wanted to see if they could get a better deal (from their selections or someone else).

  65. #165

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Oh I'm certain there's plenty of pro-development reasons for them to do it the way they're doing, but it still strikes me as anti-democratic. The submission could still have been done exactly the way you describe, before being handed back/off/through a governmental body for the actual submission to Amazon to ensure FOIP access once the process is completed.

    (Your pitch to sell me on the pitch is well done, commensurate with your experience on these matters. I'm still not buying it.)
    maybe it's the sunshine and warm temperatures 2/3 of the way through october but i'm not sure what's "anti-democratic" or where foip enters in to it.

    firstly, i'm not sure who was invited/qualified to submit proposals as i've not seen the proposal call or any submissions made in response but i'm pretty sure amazon would have dictated who could submit so there rules may have required a government or governmental body to make the submission or submissions. even if individual submissions were possible, the private sector responders still have value in controlling their piece of the submission and being able to ensure that there was no favouritism being given to by government (or assumed to be made available, even in error) by competing private sector responders. that would seem to be to be more and not less democratic assuming democratic means being treated equally.

    as for foip, you can't foip a private sector submission so you would have less access and not more to information that the private entity elects not to disclose on their own. as for foiping a public submission (you seem to arguing both for private and for public at the same time), any private or proprietary information in a public submission would still be subject to being redacted at the request of the private or proprietary information's owner.
    The C of E has said it will not divulge it's Amazon proposal. Why is that?. They should be open and above board about it. It's the taxpayer that ultimately pays the bills in this city and I'm sure we would like to know what we could be letting ourselves in for. It's not a precedent I would like to see set.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    PR stunts (which some other cities have done) could be seen as either clever or desperate. Not sure which would actually sway Amazon's decision makers.
    That said, it's yet another example of our tale of two cities: Calgary loud and brash, Edmonton quiet and self effacing.
    Maybe we need to be loud and brash - look how well it did for Calgary.

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    A solid advantage we have over Calgary, and many other cities, is we were able to get public funding for a private venture of several hundred million. Took some wrangling, but they got it. The economics on that one were much less convincing than a project like this. So precedent helps.

    Seriously, any offers or incentives would have to be voted on by council, and given the size, impact, and the precent (arena), it would get a lot of visibility.

  68. #168

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    Per my earlier post, I had a suspicion Calgary and Colorado might have a chance, if the executives are skiiers, Calgary doesn't seem to be shy about its proposal, highlighting the catch phrase they used:



    Last edited by moahunter; 20-10-2017 at 12:23 PM.

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    Good one nobleea.

    Yeah, ol' Emmonton sure can prove that it will bend over, spread'em, and then do ATM.

  70. #170

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    We are not even on a level playing field


    Cities around US offer billions in tax breaks to be Amazon’s HQ2
    Cities and states are trying to one-up each other, showing off their best features.
    https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/...e-amazons-hq2/
    Cities around the country are pulling out all the stops to entice Amazon to set up its second headquarters in their area.


    The online retail giant is taking proposals from around North America, and today's the deadline. Some of the proposals include massive tax breaks, while other cities are trying out humorous gimmicks to get the company's attention.


    New Jersey has offered the biggest tax incentives, consisting of up to $7 billion in state and local tax rebates if Amazon locates in Newark and hires the 50,000 workers it has said it would. The company has also promised $5 billion in spending on construction of the headquarters. The New Jersey offer, announced Monday, is $2 billion more than what Republican Governor Chris Christie and the Democratic-led New Jersey legislature agreed to last month.


    Pennsylvania is considering tax breaks of up to $1 billion, while the city of Philadelphia may contribute up to $2 billion in breaks over the next 10 years, according to the Philadelphia Inquirer.


    Boston is called a top-five possibility, with multiple possible sites, and the city's mayor has said he's "in the competition to win." Worcester, an hour west, has made the details of its offer public—it's willing to give $500 million in real-estate tax exemptions and a 100-percent personal property tax exemption for 20 years. New Hampshire, meanwhile, decided that the best way to woo Amazon is to knock its neighbor: "Boston is known for congested, decaying roads and overcrowded subways," reads the Granite State's proposal, according to WBUR.


    California will give up to $200 million in tax credits and $100 million in training funds, plus property tax abatements. Several cities in the state, along with at least two private developers, are making bids for Amazon's new HQ.


    Missouri's elected representatives have made a full-court press, pitching both St. Louis and Kansas City as great spots.


    In the end, it would probably be easier to list states that aren't trying to get the retail giant's attention than those that are. While the huge tax breaks are eye-catching, they're only part of the equation. In the end, a city that's attractive enough to have large amounts of talent, particularly software developers, may be the most important factor.
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  71. #171

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    this

    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  72. #172

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    The eight most outrageous things cities did to lure Amazon for HQ2

    https://www.theverge.com/2017/10/19/...crest-new-york
    I feel in no way entitled to your opinion...

  73. #173

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    Little Rock drops Amazon bid in ad: 'It's not you, it's us.'

    http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/r...ad-us-50592387
    I feel in no way entitled to your opinion...

  74. #174

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocket252 View Post
    I am curious to hear what submitters to this thread have to say regarding Calgary's massive PR campaign regarding this issue as compared to silence by most other Canadian Cities including Edmonton. Does it make a difference in the decision making process of Amazon?
    I doubt it does. Amazon is probably not paying that much attention to local media in Calgary or even Canada. Toronto has also has a fairly high profile campaign that has got some coverage too, with a former big 5 bank chairman as their spokesman. I am not sure if that means much to Amazon, or whether they know who he is. I heard Halifax and Winnipeg mentioned I think once in the news about this too. It would be nice if there was more coverage of Edmonton on this, but you know the national media tends to ignore us.

  75. #175

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    ^the argument being used in Calgary, is that even if it doesn't win, it is promoting itself. For example, the skiing advert does a double take - even if Amazon says no, maybe some people in Seattle will think about a one hour flight to a ski destination? If you are going to spend a lot of money, its probably better to make a splash and have some impact, than doing something quietly behind the scenes that will achieve nothing but line some consultants pockets if it doesn't win.

  76. #176

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^the argument being used in Calgary, is that even if it doesn't win, it is promoting itself. For example, the skiing advert does a double take - even if Amazon says no, maybe some people in Seattle will think about a one hour flight to a ski destination? If you are going to spend a lot of money, its probably better to make a splash and have some impact, than doing something quietly behind the scenes that will achieve nothing but line some consultants pockets if it doesn't win.
    I agree there is merit to that argument, although there are a lots of places in the western US and elsewhere (hello Whistler) that are within an hour of Seattle by air that have good skiing too. However, I think the proposals put together for Amazon probably can be used or copied for other purposes, so even if the bid is not won the effort and money spent is not necessarily in vain, whether done quietly or not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^the argument being used in Calgary, is that even if it doesn't win, it is promoting itself. For example, the skiing advert does a double take - even if Amazon says no, maybe some people in Seattle will think about a one hour flight to a ski destination? If you are going to spend a lot of money, its probably better to make a splash and have some impact, than doing something quietly behind the scenes that will achieve nothing but line some consultants pockets if it doesn't win.
    Yea they will come and spend it in Banff.
    Thanks Calgary for doing Alberta tourism a favour, good benefit for the whole province.

    Honestly, while I appreciate some tongue and cheek marketing, a couple "haha" cute ads don't really stack up against billion dollar subsidies.

    It does continue the long line of the two cities though; Calgary loud and self promoting, Edmonton quietly trudging away in the back ground. That part I don't really appreciate in terms of what the City has put forward.

  78. #178

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    Quote Originally Posted by DanC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^the argument being used in Calgary, is that even if it doesn't win, it is promoting itself. For example, the skiing advert does a double take - even if Amazon says no, maybe some people in Seattle will think about a one hour flight to a ski destination? If you are going to spend a lot of money, its probably better to make a splash and have some impact, than doing something quietly behind the scenes that will achieve nothing but line some consultants pockets if it doesn't win.
    Yea they will come and spend it in Banff.
    Thanks Calgary for doing Alberta tourism a favour, good benefit for the whole province.

    Honestly, while I appreciate some tongue and cheek marketing, a couple "haha" cute ads don't really stack up against billion dollar subsidies.

    It does continue the long line of the two cities though; Calgary loud and self promoting, Edmonton quietly trudging away in the back ground. That part I don't really appreciate in terms of what the City has put forward.
    Well it does reinforce stereotypes about the cities, although being loud and self promoting is not always successful. It does put some people off too. When I worked in sales, I noticed some very successful people were a bit more understated in their approach than I expected and that seemed to work quite well for them. I think a case can be made for each approach.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DanC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^the argument being used in Calgary, is that even if it doesn't win, it is promoting itself. For example, the skiing advert does a double take - even if Amazon says no, maybe some people in Seattle will think about a one hour flight to a ski destination? If you are going to spend a lot of money, its probably better to make a splash and have some impact, than doing something quietly behind the scenes that will achieve nothing but line some consultants pockets if it doesn't win.
    Yea they will come and spend it in Banff.
    Thanks Calgary for doing Alberta tourism a favour, good benefit for the whole province.

    Honestly, while I appreciate some tongue and cheek marketing, a couple "haha" cute ads don't really stack up against billion dollar subsidies.

    It does continue the long line of the two cities though; Calgary loud and self promoting, Edmonton quietly trudging away in the back ground. That part I don't really appreciate in terms of what the City has put forward.
    Well it does reinforce stereotypes about the cities, although being loud and self promoting is not always successful. It does put some people off too. When I worked in sales, I noticed some very successful people were a bit more understated in their approach than I expected and that seemed to work quite well for them. I think a case can be made for each approach.
    I think that there is literally zero publically available for the citizens of the city to get a grasp of what we put forward, not even the commercial portion, but just what branding, themes, etc. were used, is a bit too close to the chest for my liking.
    This was a way to generate a bit of hype locally as well to see what the people at the helm of promoting the city were putting out there.

  80. #180

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    Quote Originally Posted by DanC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DanC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^the argument being used in Calgary, is that even if it doesn't win, it is promoting itself. For example, the skiing advert does a double take - even if Amazon says no, maybe some people in Seattle will think about a one hour flight to a ski destination? If you are going to spend a lot of money, its probably better to make a splash and have some impact, than doing something quietly behind the scenes that will achieve nothing but line some consultants pockets if it doesn't win.
    Yea they will come and spend it in Banff.
    Thanks Calgary for doing Alberta tourism a favour, good benefit for the whole province.

    Honestly, while I appreciate some tongue and cheek marketing, a couple "haha" cute ads don't really stack up against billion dollar subsidies.

    It does continue the long line of the two cities though; Calgary loud and self promoting, Edmonton quietly trudging away in the back ground. That part I don't really appreciate in terms of what the City has put forward.
    Well it does reinforce stereotypes about the cities, although being loud and self promoting is not always successful. It does put some people off too. When I worked in sales, I noticed some very successful people were a bit more understated in their approach than I expected and that seemed to work quite well for them. I think a case can be made for each approach.
    I think that there is literally zero publically available for the citizens of the city to get a grasp of what we put forward, not even the commercial portion, but just what branding, themes, etc. were used, is a bit too close to the chest for my liking.
    This was a way to generate a bit of hype locally as well to see what the people at the helm of promoting the city were putting out there.
    Good point. I liked how Ed Clarke publicly presented some of Toronto's points to recruit Amazon - self promoting, I suppose, but not in a loud or brash way. He made a strong business case with a few key facts and figures, that would have appealed to me if I were Amazon. Close to skiing is nice, but I think you have to make a very strong business case to them first.

    Maybe Economic Development Edmonton doesn't have the same skill level as Ed, or if they do they sure are hiding it.

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    Apparently Edmonton's bid was such a secret, even CNN did not know about it....lol

    http://money.cnn.com/2017/10/20/tech...ico/index.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by edTel View Post
    Apparently Edmonton's bid was such a secret, even CNN did not know about it....lol

    http://money.cnn.com/2017/10/20/tech...ico/index.html
    as long as amazon knows about it then it probably matters not whether cnn knows about it or not.
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    I wonder when Amazon will make a decision?
    Edmonton first, everything else second.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by edTel View Post
    Apparently Edmonton's bid was such a secret, even CNN did not know about it....lol

    http://money.cnn.com/2017/10/20/tech...ico/index.html
    as long as amazon knows about it then it probably matters not whether cnn knows about it or not.
    Of course but my point is/was that we should have been mentioned and not sure if it was just an oversight on their part or due to the fact that our bid was not well publicized. Just to be shown to be in the running improves public perception that we are a "big city" with lots to offer any company that wishes to relocate. As someone else pointed out, Calgary's bid, even if not successful, has raised awareness of their city amongst other companies who may be interested in relocation at some point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by edTel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by edTel View Post
    Apparently Edmonton's bid was such a secret, even CNN did not know about it....lol

    http://money.cnn.com/2017/10/20/tech...ico/index.html
    as long as amazon knows about it then it probably matters not whether cnn knows about it or not.
    Of course but my point is/was that we should have been mentioned and not sure if it was just an oversight on their part or due to the fact that our bid was not well publicized. Just to be shown to be in the running improves public perception that we are a "big city" with lots to offer any company that wishes to relocate. As someone else pointed out, Calgary's bid, even if not successful, has raised awareness of their city amongst other companies who may be interested in relocation at some point.
    at this point i’d still put our odds at better than stonecrest georgia’s no matter how much their bid has been in the news.
    Last edited by kcantor; 21-10-2017 at 10:13 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThomasH View Post
    I wonder when Amazon will make a decision?
    No rush. Just wait as cities drool over them and offer ever increasing tax breaks and incentives. In the old days they would offer herds of horses, cattle and camels...

    Nothing more than corporate welfare to multi-billion dollar companies who can afford it. The rich become richer.
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 21-10-2017 at 01:49 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by edTel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by edTel View Post
    Apparently Edmonton's bid was such a secret, even CNN did not know about it....lol

    http://money.cnn.com/2017/10/20/tech...ico/index.html
    as long as amazon knows about it then it probably matters not whether cnn knows about it or not.
    Of course but my point is/was that we should have been mentioned and not sure if it was just an oversight on their part or due to the fact that our bid was not well publicized. Just to be shown to be in the running improves public perception that we are a "big city" with lots to offer any company that wishes to relocate. As someone else pointed out, Calgary's bid, even if not successful, has raised awareness of their city amongst other companies who may be interested in relocation at some point.
    at this point i’d still put our odds at better than stonecrest georgia’s no matter how much their bid has been in the news.
    Measuring against the lowest level of competition...pretty low bar.
    Edmonton has a very small shot at this, however the groups pushing this forward had a very large opportunity to make a bit of noise. Building some momentum with locals through these shots at the moon would be nice.

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    As great as it would be to have this come to Canada (this is a rare case where I would love to see Calgary win something) it sounds like the American cities are pulling out the big guns with upwards of $7B in tax incentives. Given Canadian cities cannot offer anything close to that it's hard to think any of us have a real chance. At the end of the day it does sound like a race to the bottom where nobody wins but Amazon (anyone remember the GOA paying a boatload to get Nortel into AB, last time a checked they currently employee 0 people here).

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    at this point i’d still put our odds at better than stonecrest georgia’s no matter how much their bid has been in the news.
    Agreed, but again, that was not my main point. Would be ironic though, if Stonecrest did win

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    Quote Originally Posted by edTel View Post
    Apparently Edmonton's bid was such a secret, even CNN did not know about it....lol

    http://money.cnn.com/2017/10/20/tech...ico/index.html



    Classic.

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    238 applications.
    You can probably scratch at least 38 off for being in Mexico, Puerto Rico or in areas that have less than 1mil inhabitants.

    I don't know much about software/tech salaries that Amazon would be paying, but is there a difference in the current salaries for these positions in Canada vs USA? Once you take in to account our low dollar? If it's 100K US and 100K CAD for the same position, that is essentially a free subsidy that Canadian cities offer to a US based company. That would be worth 1B a year with 50,000 employees. Not to mention that our govt has no problem importing the required employees until local schools can produce enough means that subsidy might even be more.

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    ^ It's been widely mentioned that immigration of technical professionals is one of the main reasons why Amazon is considering Canada. Opening HQ2 in Canada instead of the States would sent a strong message to Cheeto Jesus in that regard.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThomasH View Post
    I wonder when Amazon will make a decision?
    They stated in 2018. Takes a while to go through the submissions, figure out the best. My guess is they'll go for the highest tax breaks, which puts the "winning" city in huge bind, all the costs of infrastructure, but little money to build it.

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    ^Well we don't know what sweeteners the C of E put in it's proposal to woo Amazon. Hopefully it's not some peoples first born sons.
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

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    Quote Originally Posted by sundance View Post
    My guess is they'll go for the highest tax breaks, which puts the "winning" city in huge bind, all the costs of infrastructure, but little money to build it.
    No, I think they'll go for lowest overall cost/best value. Taxes are only a portion of the equation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Per my earlier post, I had a suspicion Calgary and Colorado might have a chance, if the executives are skiiers, Calgary doesn't seem to be shy about its proposal, highlighting the catch phrase they used:



    Having just come back with some amazing photos of Mt. Ranier, not sure this was Calgary's best move ....
    ... gobsmacked

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    The Amazon Bounce Back
    http://www.ianhathaway.org/blog/2017...on-bounce-back

    if public officials are willing to laud Amazon with literally billions in tax breaks in exchange for bringing 50,000 high-paid workers to town, they should consider doing more to support the local business environment and entrepreneurs — and at a fraction of the cost.
    Excellent article!
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    In Alberta cities are prohibited from offering tax breaks, they might be able to arrange great lease deals, but really this is a "race to the bottom", with the only advantage to the winning city being the taxes paid by the employees (income, property, sales)
    http://www.slate.com/articles/busine..._s_new_hq.html

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    It would be a wonderful thing if these kind of breaks were prohibited by NAFTA.
    There can only be one.

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    "Paddy Power, which mostly takes wagers on sports but ventures into politics and other topics, gives Atlanta 2-to-1 odds against winning the competition. That's way better than Philadelphia at 7-to-1, Boston at 8-to-1 and Toronto at 9-to-1. "

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