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Thread: Omar Khadr judgment/settlement

  1. #1

    Default Omar Khadr judgment/settlement

    Brutal. Kill an American soldier, Canadian taxpayers will reward you.

    http://globalnews.ca/news/3573070/omar-khadr-apology/

    How about we give it to the soldiers widow and family / another injured soldier, instead? They have a legal claim to it:

    Speer’s widow and retired American sergeant Layne Morris, who was blinded by a grenade at the Afghan compound where Khadr was captured, won a default US$134.2 million in damages against Khadr in 2015, but Canadian experts called it highly unlikely the judgment could be enforced.
    Last edited by moahunter; 04-07-2017 at 03:04 PM.

  2. #2

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    I really don't know how to respond to this. I do think from the start that Khadr was handled badly given his age. He was in my mind a Child Soldier and no doubt trying to please his father. For sure he should have know right from wrong but under his circumstances did he have any other option but to follow what people around him were doing. This 10 million dollars settlement is a whole different matter.
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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Brutal. Kill an American soldier, Canadian taxpayers will reward you.

    http://globalnews.ca/news/3573070/omar-khadr-apology/

    How about we give it to the soldiers widow and family / another injured soldier, instead? They have a legal claim to it:

    Speer’s widow and retired American sergeant Layne Morris, who was blinded by a grenade at the Afghan compound where Khadr was captured, won a default US$134.2 million in damages against Khadr in 2015, but Canadian experts called it highly unlikely the judgment could be enforced.
    You editorialized the headline of this thread. You're providing a simplistic view of this situation being a murder of an american soldier when the actual situation is far more complex than that.

    Omar Khadr was not treated fairly in accordance with the law.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    I really don't know how to respond to this. I do think from the start that Khadr was handled badly given his age. He was in my mind a Child Soldier and no doubt trying to please his father. For sure he should have know right from wrong but under his circumstances did he have any other option but to follow what people around him were doing. This 10 million dollars settlement is a whole different matter.
    What's your concern with the settlement? The Canadian government was complicit in his imprisonment and torture by the US, similar to Maher Arar, who also received a large settlement from the Canadian government. Although admittedly, Khadr's situation and culpability is a lot more complicated than Arar, who truly was innocent in every respect.

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    wow, I didn't realize how connected the Khadr and Arar cases actually were. Khadr while under questioning/torture was asked if he recognized Arar, and after enough softening up, he eventually said he did: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maher_....27s_rendition

    At the time their movements were under close scrutiny by teams of Project A-O Canada.[19] Before Project A-O Canada was created, CSIS had been monitoring Almalki at least since 1998 with respect to his relationship with Ahmed Khadr, an Egyptian-born Canadian and alleged senior associate of Osama bin Laden. CSIS was also concerned with Almalki's electronic components export business that he operated with his wife. Almalki, however, was purely a person of interest and was not, in fact, the target of the investigation. Nonetheless, Almalki's meeting with Arar appears to have prompted a wider investigation, with Arar also becoming a "person of interest."[19]While testifying at the Guantanamo military commission for alleged child soldier Omar Khadr, FBI agent Robert Fuller testified that Khadr had identified Maher Arar as among the al-Qaeda militants he met while in Afghanistan. On October 7, 2002, Fuller went to Bagram Air Base in Afghanistan and showed Canadian teenager Omar Khadr a black-and-white photograph of Arar obtained from the FBI office in Massachusetts, and demanded to know if he recognised him. Khadr initially stated that he did not recognise Arar. Upon cross-examination, Fuller clarified his testimony saying that at first Khadr could not identify Arar. Then after giving him a couple minutes Khadr "stated he felt he had seen" Maher Arar[20] at a Kabul safehouse run by Abu Musab al-Suri or Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. The validity of Omar Khadr's possible sighting has been seriously questioned due to the time frame of the alleged sighting which was sometime during September or October 2001. Arar was known to be in North America during this time frame and under surveillance by the RCMP.[21] Khadr's lawyer told Canadian media that Khadr, claiming to be under torture at Bagram Theater Internment Facility, simply told his captors whatever he thought they wanted to hear. Lawyers and advocates familiar with the case immediately dismissed the allegations.

    The information gathered from the United States' interrogation of Omar Khadr conflicts with the information gathered previously from the RCMP. Michael Edelson stated in public testimony given during the Arar Inquiry that RCMP officials from Project AO Canada had shown pictures of Arar to Khadr in either July or August 2002 and that Khadr denied ever seeing Maher Arar.[28]

    Within an affidavit, Khadr stated he was visited by three individuals claiming to be Canadians at Guantanamo Bay in March 2003. During their three-day visit, he was shown "approximately 20 pictures of various people" and asked about several people "such as my father and Arar." At which time he told them "what [he] knew.
    Basically, the Canadian intelligence services were quite happily using Khadr as a captive source of intelligence, knowing damn well that he was likely to have been tortured by the US.

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    10 million will make it all better, and his sleazy nasty lawyer knew this payday was coming..please!

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Channing View Post
    Omar Khadr was not treated fairly in accordance with the law.
    Agreed - under Sharia law he should probably be stoned to death, given a thousand virgins, or something like that. If we must pay, I think Canada should respect US law and direct the payment towards that civil judgment against him - pay it to the widow and blind soldier.

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    So if khadr's guilt as a terrorist was so absolute and beyond doubt why didn't the Harper government move to strip Khadr of his citizenship?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    I really don't know how to respond to this. I do think from the start that Khadr was handled badly given his age. He was in my mind a Child Soldier and no doubt trying to please his father. For sure he should have know right from wrong but under his circumstances did he have any other option but to follow what people around him were doing. This 10 million dollars settlement is a whole different matter.
    What's your concern with the settlement? The Canadian government was complicit in his imprisonment and torture by the US, similar to Maher Arar, who also received a large settlement from the Canadian government. Although admittedly, Khadr's situation and culpability is a lot more complicated than Arar, who truly was innocent in every respect.
    Well if you read your own reply to my post you seem none to sure yourself of just how innocent or guilty Khadr is. What he did was wrong but he was treated badly for his age. His father and his father's accomplices had a lot to do with Khadr's predicament. The settlement, well in war time(s) things happen and I'm not sure each and every case can be settled with a monetary amount. Khadr got caught but there were and are no doubt many terrorists who throw explosive devices during war but most of them remain unknown and unfortunately the names of their victims also.
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    Omar Khadr was born in Toronto though, so you really can't strip citizenship. I'm guessing Trudeau will try and balance a very fine line to try and appease all parties, this could come back hard on him especially at election time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by norwoodguy View Post
    So if khadr's guilt as a terrorist was so absolute and beyond doubt why didn't the Harper government move to strip Khadr of his citizenship?
    Because he was born here.
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    I caught a quick glimpse of Justice Minister Wilson-Reybould being interviewed on the CBC and she indicated that the matter hadn't been decidedly yet. It will be interestingly to see how this plays out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Channing View Post
    Omar Khadr was not treated fairly in accordance with the law.
    Agreed - under Sharia law he should probably be stoned to death, given a thousand virgins, or something like that. If we must pay, I think Canada should respect US law and direct the payment towards that civil judgment against him - pay it to the widow and blind soldier.
    Who knows, that payment might just happen. I think one of his lawyers may have been doing this pro-bono but not sure of the rest.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by norwoodguy View Post
    So if khadr's guilt as a terrorist was so absolute and beyond doubt why didn't the Harper government move to strip Khadr of his citizenship?
    Because he was born here.
    I wonder if that has ever been brought up for debate.
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    ^HaHa, are you serious. Maybe get Trump the 'birther' to look into this.
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    It's been brought up for other people, like Saad Gaya.

    http://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/e...orn-terrorist/
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    Paying restitution for the act of a private citizen not acting on behalf of the state could create a problematic precedence. It's not as though this was a case of friendly fire such as when American pilots bombed Canadian troops in Afghanistan.
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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    It's been brought up for other people, like Saad Gaya.

    http://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/e...orn-terrorist/
    Thanks for the reminder, I had forgotten about the "Toronto 18".
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    Quote Originally Posted by sundance View Post
    Omar Khadr was born in Toronto though, so you really can't strip citizenship. I'm guessing Trudeau will try and balance a very fine line to try and appease all parties, this could come back hard on him especially at election time.
    I do hope so, there are many people that think our vets are more deserving than this *****, with the hateful family!

    The widow of the man he killed, has a judgement against him,134 million. I do hope she collects...!
    Last edited by H.L.; 04-07-2017 at 05:00 PM.

  20. #20

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    I am confident that will not set any bad precedent nor encourage any copycats.

  21. #21

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    ^he probably would have got a bigger offer if it was a Canadian soldier that had been killed, it very well could have been. At 15, I had a drivers license, was going to clubs, enjoyed smoking, that sort of stuff, but I knew not to throw grenades at soldiers.

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    Several of you are acting as if it's certain he killed an american soldier. That's not even clear.

  23. #23

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    6^Well I will hazard a guess you were not driving, going to clubs etc. in a war torn country. Maybe hazard another one, you were not around people with a penchant for carrying hand grenades or rocket launchers or high powered rifles. No doubt the club was not in a city that was completely destroyed by insurgents. You were probably going to your clubs in Sleepy Hollow were there was maybe not even one stop light. Kadhr's reality at 15 was not even remotely anything like yours.
    Last edited by Gemini; 04-07-2017 at 05:22 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    I really don't know how to respond to this. I do think from the start that Khadr was handled badly given his age. He was in my mind a Child Soldier and no doubt trying to please his father. For sure he should have know right from wrong but under his circumstances did he have any other option but to follow what people around him were doing. This 10 million dollars settlement is a whole different matter.
    What's your concern with the settlement? The Canadian government was complicit in his imprisonment and torture by the US, similar to Maher Arar, who also received a large settlement from the Canadian government. Although admittedly, Khadr's situation and culpability is a lot more complicated than Arar, who truly was innocent in every respect.
    Well if you read your own reply to my post you seem none to sure yourself of just how innocent or guilty Khadr is. What he did was wrong but he was treated badly for his age. His father and his father's accomplices had a lot to do with Khadr's predicament. The settlement, well in war time(s) things happen and I'm not sure each and every case can be settled with a monetary amount. Khadr got caught but there were and are no doubt many terrorists who throw explosive devices during war but most of them remain unknown and unfortunately the names of their victims also.
    Two wrongs do not make a right. Even if Khadr really was guilty of killing Spears, that changes nothing about how he was subsequently treated by the US and in any case he was a child soldier. And again, the Canadian intelligence services were complicit in that treatment and his extended detainment in Guantanamo.

  25. #25

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    ^he only has himself to blame, nobody but him decided to throw that grenade. If he had done that against the military forces of Pakistan, or another Muslim country, do you think he would be free today, getting paid $10m? I don't think so, we are rewarding him because he was lucky enough to throw at a US soldier, its obscene. Hopefully, any payout can be directed to the family of the soldier killed, rather than where it will end up otherwise, in the pockets of ISIS or another Muslim extremist organization.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^he probably would have got a bigger offer if it was a Canadian soldier that had been killed, it very well could have been. At 15, I had a drivers license, was going to clubs, enjoyed smoking, that sort of stuff, but I knew not to throw grenades at soldiers.
    So when was the last time the Americans invaded New Zealand and you were the middle of a war zone. Instead of throwing a grenades you could instead throw the contents of your pants.
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    "^he probably would have got a bigger offer if it was a Canadian soldier that had been killed." oh boy, what a ridiculous statement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^he probably would have got a bigger offer if it was a Canadian soldier that had been killed, it very well could have been. At 15, I had a drivers license, was going to clubs, enjoyed smoking, that sort of stuff, but I knew not to throw grenades at soldiers.
    So when was the last time the Americans invaded New Zealand and you were the middle of a war zone. Instead of throwing a grenades you could instead throw the contents of your pants.
    I didn't travel to Afghanistan to throw grenades at US soldiers. Khadar, a Canadian citizen who spent much of his childhood in Canada, did, good for you in thinking that's brave and heroic - worthy of $10m of our tax dollars, I don't.
    Last edited by moahunter; 04-07-2017 at 05:44 PM.

  29. #29

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    I still don't understand the case at all

    Child soldiers are protected against procecucion under the Geneva Convention.

    He should have not been put on trail at all.

    As a soldier, all soldiers are trained and required to kill the enemy. Does this make all soldiers culpable under the law as murderers and at risk of judicial and civil prosecution? If so, would the family of the guy that was shot by a Canadian sniper be able to sue?
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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^he probably would have got a bigger offer if it was a Canadian soldier that had been killed, it very well could have been. At 15, I had a drivers license, was going to clubs, enjoyed smoking, that sort of stuff, but I knew not to throw grenades at soldiers.
    So when was the last time the Americans invaded New Zealand and you were the middle of a war zone. Instead of throwing a grenades you could instead throw the contents of your pants.
    I didn't travel to Afghanistan to throw grenades at US soldiers. Khadar, a Canadian citizen who spent much of his childhood in Canada, did, good for you in thinking that's brave and heroic - worthy of $10m of our tax dollars, I don't.
    he was a child under the law. He had no choice. What part don't you understand.
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  31. #31

    Default Widow goes after money Canada will give ex-Gitmo prisoner

    Some good news:...

    TORONTO — The lawyer for the widow of an American soldier killed in Afghanistan said Tuesday they have filed an application so that any money paid by the Canadian government to a former Guantanamo Bay prisoner convicted of killing him will go toward the widow and another U.S. soldier injured.

    Lawyer Don Winder made the comments as a decision by the Canadian government to apologize and give millions of dollars to Omar Khadr came under mounting criticism.

    An official familiar with the deal said Tuesday that Khadr will receive 10.5 million Canadian dollars (US$8 million). The official was not authorized to discuss the deal publicly before the announcement and spoke on condition of anonymity. The government and Khadr’s lawyers negotiated the deal last month.

    The Canadian-born Khadr was 15 when he was captured by U.S. troops following a firefight at a suspected al-Qaida compound in Afghanistan that resulted in the death of an American special forces medic, U.S. Army Sgt. First Class Christopher Speer and injury of Sgt. Layne Morris, who lost an eye. Khadr, who was suspected of throwing the grenade that killed Speer, was taken to Guantanamo and ultimately charged with war crimes by a military commission.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...=.d7430b28b1d4

  32. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco View Post
    he was a child under the law. He had no choice. What part don't you understand.
    He was 15 years old, he asked to be involved - while you might think at 15 someone is innocent of any crime, I certainly don't.

    “Odious. Confessed terrorist who assembled & planted the same kind of IEDs (improvised explosive devices) that killed 97 Canadians to be given $10-million,” former Conservative Minister Jason Kenney tweeted said. Kenney added that Khadr should be in prison paying of his crimes, not profiting from them as the expenses of Canadian taxpayers.
    When a Canadian soldier is injured in battle, the government provides a disability award up to a maximum of $360,000,” Conservative MP Michelle Rempel said in a tweet. “Despite this, the current government is willing to provide $10 million to a convicted terrorist.”
    Last edited by moahunter; 04-07-2017 at 05:57 PM.

  33. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Some good news:...

    TORONTO — The lawyer for the widow of an American soldier killed in Afghanistan said Tuesday they have filed an application so that any money paid by the Canadian government to a former Guantanamo Bay prisoner convicted of killing him will go toward the widow and another U.S. soldier injured.

    Lawyer Don Winder made the comments as a decision by the Canadian government to apologize and give millions of dollars to Omar Khadr came under mounting criticism.

    An official familiar with the deal said Tuesday that Khadr will receive 10.5 million Canadian dollars (US$8 million). The official was not authorized to discuss the deal publicly before the announcement and spoke on condition of anonymity. The government and Khadr’s lawyers negotiated the deal last month.

    The Canadian-born Khadr was 15 when he was captured by U.S. troops following a firefight at a suspected al-Qaida compound in Afghanistan that resulted in the death of an American special forces medic, U.S. Army Sgt. First Class Christopher Speer and injury of Sgt. Layne Morris, who lost an eye. Khadr, who was suspected of throwing the grenade that killed Speer, was taken to Guantanamo and ultimately charged with war crimes by a military commission.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...=.d7430b28b1d4
    Families of afghans killed by American soldiers should also sue the US government. It's a two way street.

  34. #34

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    Interesting comments in this discussion:


    Caution: Children at War
    P.W. Singer
    Parameters Winter 2001-2002
    https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content...1203singer.pdf

  35. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^he only has himself to blame, nobody but him decided to throw that grenade. If he had done that against the military forces of Pakistan, or another Muslim country, do you think he would be free today, getting paid $10m? I don't think so, we are rewarding him because he was lucky enough to throw at a US soldier, its obscene. Hopefully, any payout can be directed to the family of the soldier killed, rather than where it will end up otherwise, in the pockets of ISIS or another Muslim extremist organization.
    He was fifteen. In spite of you beaking off that you were the most mature 15 year old that walked the planet I'm gonna say I don't believe you were.
    Have you ever been in a war torn country were the people around you were all older than you and you were in a situation of kill or be killed. Have you every at 15 been under the pressure of peers (for want of a better word) to do unspeakable things in an unspeakable situation under tremendous pressure. You comparing your life to his is laughable. Then he gets arrested and treated like an adult when his crime(s) were committed as a youth. The laws were put in place before he got arrested and detained. Nobody should be able to change or bend them to make a political statement, like knowing his age is 15 but treating him like an adult war criminal. Sure he was old enough to know right from wrong, but he was probably brought up to believe killing his enemy (soldiers, insurgents, rebels) was the right thing to do. You cannot substitute your reality for his. You might have been brought up on the other side of the tracks but I'm sure it was not a war torn neighborhood. Quit fantasizing, I doubt you've every been a prisoner of war. Probably the closest you got to war was some Xbox game.
    As for the 10 million settlement, part and parcel of it all but I'm not sure about it.
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  36. #36

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    Im trying to find a quote where Trudeau provides the instruction per the thread title. Does the PM have that authority? Can someone provide that please.


    More here:

    Here’s why Omar Khadr is getting $10M from the Canadian government | Globalnews.ca

    http://globalnews.ca/news/3573619/om...-compensation/

  37. #37

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    Trump's racism has leaked into Canada in a big way and it's both disgusting and pathetic. If it was a white kid that threw that grenade at an Arab while yelling "For the glory of God!" some of you would have come in your pants so hard it would have blown them right off. And then you'd set up a $10M GoFundMe to ensure they were adequately rewarded.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

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    Is 10m enough for enduring state sponsored torture? It is shameful how he was treated.

    There are rules around child soldiers. They were ignored and he was abused by the US.

  39. #39

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    From Wiki

    The commissions were struck down as unconstitutional on June 29, 2006 by the Supreme Court ruling in Hamdan v. Rumsfeld, which stated that "The military commission at issue lacks the power to proceed because its structure and procedures violate both the UCMJ and the four Geneva Conventions signed in 1949.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    From Wiki

    The commissions were struck down as unconstitutional on June 29, 2006 by the Supreme Court ruling in Hamdan v. Rumsfeld, which stated that "The military commission at issue lacks the power to proceed because its structure and procedures violate both the UCMJ and the four Geneva Conventions signed in 1949.
    So they literally wrote and passed new laws to make it so what they were doing was 'legal'.

    Pretty disgusting.

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    Maybe if everyone who finds themselves in a combat situation and suffers from it, including service personnel, civilians, contractors, and anyone else, sue for millions it will put an end to wars as no one could afford the consequences of a war.

  42. #42

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    Theres 2 issues here. One is an admitted terrorirst who murdered people and then ones right to due process. When you leave canada to commit such heinous crimes you cant cry about the punishment you endure over seas.

    Hes a murderer. Hes a terrorist. His age didnt matter when planting bombs or blowing people up yet a few of you are crying over his rights? How many people did khadr murder before he was captured?

    Im all for defending someones rights but i struggle with this when its a murdering terrorist. Throw a child rapist into the mix and everyones happy to chop their privates off and throw away the keys but a murdering terrorist whos committed numerous untold crimes and we are concerned about his rights?

    Can you guys who are supporting a murderous terrorist stop excusing his actions. Defend his rights to due process but stop pretending like he had no choice and that being a kid makes any difference.

  43. #43

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    It's astounding how many grown men think they were grown men at 15.
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  44. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211 View Post
    Theres 2 issues here. One is an admitted terrorirst who murdered people and then ones right to due process. When you leave canada to commit such heinous crimes you cant cry about the punishment you endure over seas.

    Hes a murderer. Hes a terrorist. His age didnt matter when planting bombs or blowing people up yet a few of you are crying over his rights? How many people did khadr murder before he was captured?

    Im all for defending someones rights but i struggle with this when its a murdering terrorist. Throw a child rapist into the mix and everyones happy to chop their privates off and throw away the keys but a murdering terrorist whos committed numerous untold crimes and we are concerned about his rights?

    Can you guys who are supporting a murderous terrorist stop excusing his actions. Defend his rights to due process but stop pretending like he had no choice and that being a kid makes any difference.
    There is something sick about this post. Obsession with death, dismemberment, sexuality, mixed with sputtering and completely unthinking rage.

    Whether or not Khadr was guilty or not, rage like this is the enemy. Not supposed religious fanatics accused of throwing bombs overseas, underage. Because it is here, now, and completely unchecked.

  45. #45

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    a murdering terrorist isnt the enemy? Give your head a shake. If you want to say canada deserves to pay for ignoring any tortute and undue process i can understand. But you nut bars defending a terrorists actions while providing excuses are pathetic.

    The only thing worst then khadr(terrorist)is a child rapist. Do you guys defend them as well? Do you cry foul when these rapists are beaten up in jail? Do you protect their rights when guards purposely leave them vulnerable to other inmates?

    Oh i forgot.. khadr was a kid. All is forgiven.. we must excuse his actions.

  46. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    It's astounding how many grown men think they were grown men at 15.
    I did a lot wrong at 15. I dont stand around blaming others for my actions. I dont blame others for things i did then. We all make choices. Its amusing to see so many ignore the heinous crimes committed...

    Imagine 15 yr olds in canada running around murdering people only to claim they're sorry. We are just kids... Dont blame us..

    It occassionally happens and im sure ive seen some of you posters blasting these kids.

  47. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211 View Post
    Theres 2 issues here. One is an admitted terrorirst who murdered people and then ones right to due process. When you leave canada to commit such heinous crimes you cant cry about the punishment you endure over seas.

    Hes a murderer. Hes a terrorist. His age didnt matter when planting bombs or blowing people up yet a few of you are crying over his rights? How many people did khadr murder before he was captured?

    Im all for defending someones rights but i struggle with this when its a murdering terrorist. Throw a child rapist into the mix and everyones happy to chop their privates off and throw away the keys but a murdering terrorist whos committed numerous untold crimes and we are concerned about his rights?

    Can you guys who are supporting a murderous terrorist stop excusing his actions. Defend his rights to due process but stop pretending like he had no choice and that being a kid makes any difference.
    You are wrong from the very first paragraph.

    He did not choose to leave Canada to become a terrorist. He did not decide to get a passport, buy a plane ticket and go half way around the world with his own money at the age of 9. His father did all of that. When you were 9 years old not do what your father told you? As a young teenager, he "At one point, he was forced to wear a burqa and disguise himself as a girl to avoid scrutiny, an act that upset him"

    He was a confused kid being dragged around by an extremist and domineering father in a foreign country. What was he supposed to do, hop a bus to Toronto from Afghanistan?

    It is not even proven that he killed anyone. Even if he did and had done so on a street in Canada, he might have gone through a trial and imprisonment but instead he was tortured against numerous Geneva Conventions and forced to make statements that no one knows are true or false. International laws were broken to make a mountain out of one terrible act. How many of his tortures have been taken to Court? How many thousands of innocents have been killed in illegal wars. Who is being held accountable?
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    Quote Originally Posted by AAAAE View Post
    Is 10m enough for enduring state sponsored torture? It is shameful how he was treated.

    There are rules around child soldiers. They were ignored and he was abused by the US.
    Umm his "torture" was sleep denial, that's it, he wasn't waterboarded, beaten, shocked, raped. And the denial was being moved cell to cell in 3 hour intervals, not no sleep for weeks.
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa...-says-1.726250

    I do think his mother should be deported, and have her citizenship revoked, for essentially treason. However Justin has stated he will not do this. This is the oath you take upon citizenship
    I swear (or affirm) that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II, Queen of Canada, Her Heirs and Successors, and that I will faithfully observe the laws of Canada and fulfill my duties as a Canadian citizen
    Teaching your son to act against Canada is a certainly a breach of this oath.
    Last edited by sundance; 05-07-2017 at 12:38 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sundance View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by AAAAE View Post
    Is 10m enough for enduring state sponsored torture? It is shameful how he was treated.

    There are rules around child soldiers. They were ignored and he was abused by the US.
    Umm his "torture" was sleep denial, that's it, he wasn't waterboarded, beaten, shocked, raped. And the denial was being moved cell to cell in 3 hour intervals, not no sleep for weeks.
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa...-says-1.726250
    Gee sounds just terrible..( sheesh)

    Did they really need to announce this on Juty 4th..

  50. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211 View Post
    Theres 2 issues here. One is an admitted terrorirst who murdered people and then ones right to due process. When you leave canada to commit such heinous crimes you cant cry about the punishment you endure over seas.

    Hes a murderer. Hes a terrorist. His age didnt matter when planting bombs or blowing people up yet a few of you are crying over his rights? How many people did khadr murder before he was captured?

    Im all for defending someones rights but i struggle with this when its a murdering terrorist. Throw a child rapist into the mix and everyones happy to chop their privates off and throw away the keys but a murdering terrorist whos committed numerous untold crimes and we are concerned about his rights?

    Can you guys who are supporting a murderous terrorist stop excusing his actions. Defend his rights to due process but stop pretending like he had no choice and that being a kid makes any difference.
    You are wrong from the very first paragraph.

    He did not choose to leave Canada to become a terrorist. He did not decide to get a passport, buy a plane ticket and go half way around the world with his own money at the age of 9. His father did all of that. When you were 9 years old not do what your father told you? As a young teenager, he "At one point, he was forced to wear a burqa and disguise himself as a girl to avoid scrutiny, an act that upset him"

    He was a confused kid being dragged around by an extremist and domineering father in a foreign country. What was he supposed to do, hop a bus to Toronto from Afghanistan?

    It is not even proven that he killed anyone. Even if he did and had done so on a street in Canada, he might have gone through a trial and imprisonment but instead he was tortured against numerous Geneva Conventions and forced to make statements that no one knows are true or false. International laws were broken to make a mountain out of one terrible act. How many of his tortures have been taken to Court? How many thousands of innocents have been killed in illegal wars. Who is being held accountable?
    You're insane. There are plenty of child soldiers who are trained to kill. I guess you want our soldiers to coddle them? Dont arrest these kids. Dont fight back. Dont defend yourself from them??

    After all they're just kids... What a perfect little bubble you live in far from the realities our soldiers face.

    You guys are a disgrace to those in our military who put their lives on the line every day.

    Its okay for those of us to be upset at the pay out as it is okay for others to be upset that a canadian was denied his due process in court but we dont need to be defending the actions of terrorists who's main goal is to murder and kill.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211 View Post
    Theres 2 issues here. One is an admitted terrorirst who murdered people and then ones right to due process. When you leave canada to commit such heinous crimes you cant cry about the punishment you endure over seas.

    Hes a murderer. Hes a terrorist. His age didnt matter when planting bombs or blowing people up yet a few of you are crying over his rights? How many people did khadr murder before he was captured?

    Im all for defending someones rights but i struggle with this when its a murdering terrorist. Throw a child rapist into the mix and everyones happy to chop their privates off and throw away the keys but a murdering terrorist whos committed numerous untold crimes and we are concerned about his rights?

    Can you guys who are supporting a murderous terrorist stop excusing his actions. Defend his rights to due process but stop pretending like he had no choice and that being a kid makes any difference.
    You are wrong from the very first paragraph.

    He did not choose to leave Canada to become a terrorist. He did not decide to get a passport, buy a plane ticket and go half way around the world with his own money at the age of 9. His father did all of that. When you were 9 years old not do what your father told you? As a young teenager, he "At one point, he was forced to wear a burqa and disguise himself as a girl to avoid scrutiny, an act that upset him"

    He was a confused kid being dragged around by an extremist and domineering father in a foreign country. What was he supposed to do, hop a bus to Toronto from Afghanistan?

    It is not even proven that he killed anyone. Even if he did and had done so on a street in Canada, he might have gone through a trial and imprisonment but instead he was tortured against numerous Geneva Conventions and forced to make statements that no one knows are true or false. International laws were broken to make a mountain out of one terrible act. How many of his tortures have been taken to Court? How many thousands of innocents have been killed in illegal wars. Who is being held accountable?
    You're insane. There are plenty of child soldiers who are trained to kill. I guess you want our soldiers to coddle them? Dont arrest these kids. Dont fight back. Dont defend yourself from them??

    After all they're just kids... What a perfect little bubble you live in far from the realities our soldiers face.

    You guys are a disgrace to those in our military who put their lives on the line every day.

    Its okay for those of us to be upset at the pay out as it is okay for others to be upset that a canadian was denied his due process in court but we dont need to be defending the actions of terrorists who's main goal is to murder and kill.

    Well said! The lefties standing up for this guy, are sad sacks..

  52. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    It's astounding how many grown men think they were grown men at 15.
    I did a lot wrong at 15. I dont stand around blaming others for my actions. I dont blame others for things i did then. We all make choices. Its amusing to see so many ignore the heinous crimes committed...

    Imagine 15 yr olds in canada running around murdering people only to claim they're sorry. We are just kids... Dont blame us..

    It occassionally happens and im sure ive seen some of you posters blasting these kids.
    He wasn't running around Canada murdering people thought. He was in a worn torn country with his terrorist father and his terrorist father's terrorist friends and that's what he had for role models. He was being shot at or had grenades thrown at him, in a place where you killed people or you would be killed yourself. I should imagine he had very little say in how his day was spend. Being a minor he no doubt had to go with the flow which unfortunately was with a bunch of terrorists. We all know he did wrong, even he knows it was wrong but how do you extract yourself from that situation. Leave just to run into more terrorists who will forcefully recruit you to do the same thing.
    Hopefully you are not going to be someone who is going to compare your life to his. Unless you have also gone through very similar circumstances to him at the age of 15. I find it hard to find a credible comparison to running around Canada at 15 ringing doorbells then running away to running around with terrorists because they unfortunately were key to your own survival.
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

  53. #53

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    some 15 yr olds murdered the lady out near sherwood park less then a year ago. Murder is murder.. are we coddling these 15 yr olds?? Was anyone defending these murdering kids in sherwood park? Hell no.

    Stop defending a terrorist. Age means nothing when you are actively murdering people. This isnt hard to understand... its clear a few of you live far from the realities our soldiers face. There are bad things that happen in many countries due to war..

    Regardless of circumnstance that doesnt give these terrorists an excuse.

  54. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211 View Post
    Theres 2 issues here. One is an admitted terrorirst who murdered people and then ones right to due process. When you leave canada to commit such heinous crimes you cant cry about the punishment you endure over seas.

    Hes a murderer. Hes a terrorist. His age didnt matter when planting bombs or blowing people up yet a few of you are crying over his rights? How many people did khadr murder before he was captured?

    Im all for defending someones rights but i struggle with this when its a murdering terrorist. Throw a child rapist into the mix and everyones happy to chop their privates off and throw away the keys but a murdering terrorist whos committed numerous untold crimes and we are concerned about his rights?

    Can you guys who are supporting a murderous terrorist stop excusing his actions. Defend his rights to due process but stop pretending like he had no choice and that being a kid makes any difference.
    You are wrong from the very first paragraph.

    He did not choose to leave Canada to become a terrorist. He did not decide to get a passport, buy a plane ticket and go half way around the world with his own money at the age of 9. His father did all of that. When you were 9 years old not do what your father told you? As a young teenager, he "At one point, he was forced to wear a burqa and disguise himself as a girl to avoid scrutiny, an act that upset him"

    He was a confused kid being dragged around by an extremist and domineering father in a foreign country. What was he supposed to do, hop a bus to Toronto from Afghanistan?

    It is not even proven that he killed anyone. Even if he did and had done so on a street in Canada, he might have gone through a trial and imprisonment but instead he was tortured against numerous Geneva Conventions and forced to make statements that no one knows are true or false. International laws were broken to make a mountain out of one terrible act. How many of his tortures have been taken to Court? How many thousands of innocents have been killed in illegal wars. Who is being held accountable?
    You're insane. There are plenty of child soldiers who are trained to kill. I guess you want our soldiers to coddle them? Dont arrest these kids. Dont fight back. Dont defend yourself from them??

    After all they're just kids... What a perfect little bubble you live in far from the realities our soldiers face.

    You guys are a disgrace to those in our military who put their lives on the line every day.

    Its okay for those of us to be upset at the pay out as it is okay for others to be upset that a canadian was denied his due process in court but we dont need to be defending the actions of terrorists who's main goal is to murder and kill.
    It's you who live in a bubble. They are CHILD soldiers. Coerced into doing unspeakable things. Coerced by adults that should know better but exploit kids for cheap labour and kills. Nobody wants to see USA/Canadian/European etc soldiers killed by these kids or their adult counterparts but when these terrorists see our soldiers heading their way it is either kill them or be killed themselves. The kids are in a no win position. They need the adults for their survival so they need to do what they are told. There are benchmarks for humans that are getting older. Babies, toddlers, young boys/girls, pre-teen, teens, young men/women, adults, middle age, seniors. They are there for a reason and one of them is to have a ball park idea of their maturity. Kadhr was 15, not even old enough to vote. Don't get me wrong I am no fan of the guy but let's be fair.
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

  55. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211 View Post
    some 15 yr olds murdered the lady out near sherwood park less then a year ago. Murder is murder.. are we coddling these 15 yr olds?? Was anyone defending these murdering kids in sherwood park? Hell no.

    Stop defending a terrorist. Age means nothing when you are actively murdering people. This isnt hard to understand... its clear a few of you live far from the realities our soldiers face. There are bad things that happen in many countries due to war..

    Regardless of circumnstance that doesnt give these terrorists an excuse.
    What is it about the word 'war' and 'terrorists' you don't understand.
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sundance View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by AAAAE View Post
    Is 10m enough for enduring state sponsored torture? It is shameful how he was treated.

    There are rules around child soldiers. They were ignored and he was abused by the US.
    Umm his "torture" was sleep denial, that's it, he wasn't waterboarded, beaten, shocked, raped. And the denial was being moved cell to cell in 3 hour intervals, not no sleep for weeks.
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa...-says-1.726250
    Gee sounds just terrible..( sheesh)

    Did they really need to announce this on Juty 4th..
    Such treatment is not permitted by the Canadian military, police or intelligence services. It is viewed as a form of torture by pretty much every expert on the topic. And the Canadian Supreme Court has twice unanimously agreed that his treatment and the government of Canada's involvement was illegal:

    http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/politics...erry-1.4189472

    For a counterpoint — and for a hint that a settlement was perhaps inevitable — one can turn to the Supreme Court's unanimous ruling on Jan. 29, 2010, that found Khadr's human rights were being violated at Guantanamo Bay.In that case, the court dealt with the visit of CSIS and Foreign Affairs officials to the prison in 2003 and 2004, under the previous Liberal government.
    "The deprivation of [Khadr's] right to liberty and security of the person is not in accordance with the principles of fundamental justice," the court ruled.
    "The interrogation of a youth detained without access to counsel, to elicit statements about serious criminal charges while knowing that the youth had been subjected to sleep deprivation and while knowing that the fruits of the interrogations would be shared with the prosecutors, offends the most basic Canadian standards about the treatment of detained youth suspects."


    Whatever Khadr did or did not do as a teenager on a battlefield in Afghanistan in July 2002, whether he deserves to be described as a "terrorist" or a "child soldier," he was and is a Canadian citizen with rights. And, as determined by no less than the Supreme Court of Canada, the Canadian government was complicit in the violation of those rights.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211 View Post
    some 15 yr olds murdered the lady out near sherwood park less then a year ago. Murder is murder.. are we coddling these 15 yr olds?? Was anyone defending these murdering kids in sherwood park? Hell no.

    Stop defending a terrorist. Age means nothing when you are actively murdering people. This isnt hard to understand... its clear a few of you live far from the realities our soldiers face. There are bad things that happen in many countries due to war..

    Regardless of circumnstance that doesnt give these terrorists an excuse.
    These juveniles will be given the due process of our legal system they will not be taken to a foreign country and tortured into confessing to a crime they may not have been responsible for.
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  58. #58

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    There can be no reasoning or even decent speech with right-wing scum.

    Their anger, brainlessness, and general inhumanity is obvious from the moment they open their mouths.

    If Khadr did what he is alleged to have done, it was because his father was the same type of person as the three or four anonymous cowards on here muttering on about murder, castration, and the rest.

    The only difference is that Khadr's handlers were in a war zone, and these cowards are wanking from their weblinks.

    If you want to understand ISIS, terrorism, and the rest of it, look no further than the modern right. They have it all down pat, right to the anonymous virtual masks.

  59. #59

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    [QUOTE=gwill211;836043
    You're insane. .[/QUOTE]

    Get a grip. Regardless of the topic at hand, or ones passion, or reaction to say something like this to another poster on line is perhaps more to do with projection..

    Irony notwithstanding.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  60. #60

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    The Geneva Convention and the Nuremberg Trials set the post war international standards dealing with child soldiers, war crimes and other issues with combatants.

    The whole affair exposed the illegal detainment without trial, the torture and tribunals to try enemy combatants by military commissions under Presidential authority alone, not by the Rule of Law.

    The International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) inspected the camp in June 2004. In a confidential report issued in July 2004 and leaked to The New York Times in November 2004, Red Cross inspectors accused the U.S. military of using "humiliating acts, solitary confinement, temperature extremes, and use of forced positions" against prisoners. The inspectors concluded that "the construction of such a system, whose stated purpose is the production of intelligence, cannot be considered other than an intentional system of cruel, unusual and degrading treatment and a form of torture."
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guanta...detention_camp

    Every major Court ruling ruled against the acts of the United States Government.
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  61. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211 View Post
    some 15 yr olds murdered the lady out near sherwood park less then a year ago. Murder is murder.. are we coddling these 15 yr olds?? Was anyone defending these murdering kids in sherwood park? Hell no.

    Stop defending a terrorist. Age means nothing when you are actively murdering people. This isnt hard to understand... its clear a few of you live far from the realities our soldiers face. There are bad things that happen in many countries due to war..

    Regardless of circumnstance that doesnt give these terrorists an excuse.
    These juveniles will be given the due process of our legal system they will not be taken to a foreign country and tortured into confessing to a crime they may not have been responsible for.
    Your right. How many times have i said one could be upset at the lack of due process with khadr but we shouldnt be supporting terrorists by blaming the kids parents and providing excuses. These kids in sherwood park have 100 excuses as well. Every crime committed by everyone has some sort of back story with 100 excuses.

    Not sure why so many want to give excuses to a terrorist. While providing excuses for child soldiers no ones actually mentioned how our soldiers need to deal with them.. coddle them, hold them?? The realities our soldiers faced in war clearly mean nothing to everyone here who continue to support the extremists.

  62. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211 View Post
    some 15 yr olds murdered the lady out near sherwood park less then a year ago. Murder is murder.. are we coddling these 15 yr olds?? Was anyone defending these murdering kids in sherwood park? Hell no.

    Stop defending a terrorist. Age means nothing when you are actively murdering people. This isnt hard to understand... its clear a few of you live far from the realities our soldiers face. There are bad things that happen in many countries due to war..

    Regardless of circumnstance that doesnt give these terrorists an excuse.
    These juveniles will be given the due process of our legal system they will not be taken to a foreign country and tortured into confessing to a crime they may not have been responsible for.
    Your right. How many times have i said one could be upset at the lack of due process with khadr but we shouldnt be supporting terrorists by blaming the kids parents and providing excuses. These kids in sherwood park have 100 excuses as well. Every crime committed by everyone has some sort of back story with 100 excuses.

    Not sure why so many want to give excuses to a terrorist. While providing excuses for child soldiers no ones actually mentioned how our soldiers need to deal with them.. coddle them, hold them?? The realities our soldiers faced in war clearly mean nothing to everyone here who continue to support the extremists.
    The fact that soldiers even had to be there reflects a lot of backstory and excuses too. The old snowball or domino effect at work?

    We all like to think that we are all masters of our own destiny but I suspect that in many ways 'The bullet with one's name on it - has already left the gun'
    Last edited by KC; 05-07-2017 at 09:28 AM.

  63. #63

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    Interesting comment on the radio. 'It was the Conservatives that brought him back to Canada'. CBC radio this morning I don't know who was talking.

    Now to clarify- further to that radio interview: it was also said that, to paraphrase as best as I can: 'the Conservatives, Jason Kenny's Conservatives were forced to bring him back to Canada by the courts.'

    I'd still like some clarification on where Trudeau is deemed to be the deciding factor in the payout per this thread's title, and not the courts.

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    But these 'soldiers' are not soldiers, they are operating outside the rules of war. Might have been more correct if he ended up with a bullet in his head.

  65. #65

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    He murdered an unarmed medic, and was videoed planting IED's for the cause (IED's being a major killer of Canadian troops). He is a traitor, its as simple as that. If the US treated him a little rougher than he liked (still much gentler than he would have been treated in any Muslim country in jail), fine, he can try suing the US government. For me as a taxpayer to be turning him into a multi-millionaire though, while the family of the guy he killed, gets squat, is ridiculous.
    Last edited by moahunter; 05-07-2017 at 10:04 AM.

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    Deleted
    Last edited by Drumbones; 05-07-2017 at 10:04 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    He murdered an unarmed medic, and was videoed planting IED's for the cause (IED's being a major killer of Canadian troops). He is a traitor, its as simple as that.


    And now....

    He walketh among us.

    Beware next time you get into a cab.

    Could be ol' Khadr ready to wage jihad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    He murdered an unarmed medic, and was videoed planting IED's for the cause (IED's being a major killer of Canadian troops). He is a traitor, its as simple as that. If the US treated him a little rougher than he liked (still much gentler than he would have been treated in any Muslim country in jail), fine, he can try suing the US government. For me as a taxpayer to be turning him into a multi-millionaire though, while the family of the guy he killed, gets squat, is ridiculous.
    http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/u-s-app...hadr-1.3489512


    Between the widow of the man he killed, and his lawyer, he's not going to see much Moa. The optics are bad( jmho) I just hope he stays as far away from his horrible family as possible! That's my one wish for him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Dawg View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    He murdered an unarmed medic, and was videoed planting IED's for the cause (IED's being a major killer of Canadian troops). He is a traitor, its as simple as that.


    And now....

    He walketh among us.

    Beware next time you get into a cab.

    Could be ol' Khadr ready to wage jihad.
    Well, he's been attending classes for a while now at King's College, the Christian Reformed liberal-arts school on 50th street, just east of Ottewell. Can't say I've heard anything about that place becoming a hotbed of violent jihad.

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    Default Harper Conservatives Created Precedent for Omar Kadhr Payment

    "Conservatives are now in high dudgeon. But they should be familiar with both the 2010 ruling and a related judgment by the Supreme Court in 2008 that dealt with Khadr's access to documents. Conservatives should also be aware of their own precedent for such compensation: it was Stephen Harper's government that agreed to pay $10 million to Maher Arar in 2007, acknowledging the Canadian government's actions may have led to his torture by Syrian officials in 2002."

    "For a counterpoint — and for a hint that a settlement was perhaps inevitable — one can turn to the Supreme Court's unanimous ruling on Jan. 29, 2010, that found Khadr's human rights were being violated at Guantanamo Bay. In that case, the court dealt with the visit of CSIS and Foreign Affairs officials to the prison in 2003 and 2004, under the previous Liberal government. The deprivation of [Khadr's] right to liberty and security of the person is not in accordance with the principles of fundamental justice," the court ruled. The interrogation of a youth detained without access to counsel, to elicit statements about serious criminal charges while knowing that the youth had been subjected to sleep deprivation and while knowing that the fruits of the interrogations would be shared with the prosecutors, offends the most basic Canadian standards about the treatment of detained youth suspects."

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/omar...erry-1.4189472

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    Quote Originally Posted by overoceans View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Dawg View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    He murdered an unarmed medic, and was videoed planting IED's for the cause (IED's being a major killer of Canadian troops). He is a traitor, its as simple as that.


    And now....

    He walketh among us.

    Beware next time you get into a cab.

    Could be ol' Khadr ready to wage jihad.
    Well, he's been attending classes for a while now at King's College, the Christian Reformed liberal-arts school on 50th street, just east of Ottewell. Can't say I've heard anything about that place becoming a hotbed of violent jihad.
    He wants to be a nurse.

  72. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    He murdered an unarmed medic, and was videoed planting IED's for the cause (IED's being a major killer of Canadian troops). He is a traitor, its as simple as that. If the US treated him a little rougher than he liked (still much gentler than he would have been treated in any Muslim country in jail), fine, he can try suing the US government. For me as a taxpayer to be turning him into a multi-millionaire though, while the family of the guy he killed, gets squat, is ridiculous.
    In a couple of your posts on this thread you eluded to how at 15 you were a mature person, knew right from wrong. Reading between the lines of some of your posts on other threads it sounds like you were brought up maybe in lower class surroundings and maybe run around with one or two bad kids. I don't know, maybe you are trying to portray a 'badass' image. Kadhr was taken to a war torn country were he relied on adults for his survival. There were no Saturday nights out at the cinema, no football/hockey games to go to. No mid term dances or girlfriend/boyfriend puppy love. What there was was death and destruction, pain and misery, life and death and a constant need for survival. Manipulated and used by adults around him he had no choice to go with the flow. Told and expected to follow the demands no matter how awful they were. His life was completely different from yours. Sure he knows right from wrong but he did not know how to get out the situation he was in. There are all kinds of these 'kids' being brought up in these war torn countries who are expected to do the same things. Their minds are poisoned by the adults around them and yet there is no were for them to go. Kids put on a show of bravado for their fathers because they have been taught to look up to them. Taught that if they die they will be hero/martyrs and in heaven here will be all kinds of rewards. They believe this because they are just kids. Not mature enough to realize they are being hood winked. Khadr was not a lone wolf were he could have a change of heart and back out. He was surrounded by people who expected him to get the job done.
    Now I don't know what to think about the money he got awarded. Stuff that happens in war and it's aftermath usually have to be resolved with different legal processes. Not sure if this was the right process to take.
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

  73. #73

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    ^give him 10m to make it better then... maybe give me 10m too, I can tell a sad story if I need to, our liberal elite are probably dumb enough to believe it - heck why not give every refugee from a war torn country (which this guy wasn't, he went there, which is the opposite), 10m, to make them feel better too? Some other country like the US might have done something bad to them - why not give them recompense?

  74. #74

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    ^Like I said I don't know what to think of the money he was awarded as there are thousands of stories of wrong doing when it comes to war. All I'm saying is Kadhr's reality was nothing like yours was and yet you try to imply that somehow it was.
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

  75. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^give him 10m to make it better then... maybe give me 10m too, I can tell a sad story if I need to, our liberal elite are probably dumb enough to believe it - heck why not give every refugee from a war torn country (which this guy wasn't, he went there, which is the opposite), 10m, to make them feel better too? Some other country like the US might have done something bad to them - why not give them recompense?
    Barring the emotional appeal, your arguments have no legal or any other kind of merit. Also, the government was advised that if this matter goes to court, judges will award him $20m so better to settle it right now at $10m.

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    So what now ? The Canadian Govt is on the hook for paying compensation for individuals held against their will and/or illegally in another country. Once you enter another country, you are subject to their rules/ whims/ laws.

  77. #77

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    Khadr was tortured (which is illegal) & the Canadian government was complicit in this. It's that complicity that warrants the payment.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

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    He was sleep deprived, tortured? Bawhahahahahah

  79. #79

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    Yeah, torture.

    Upon their return, the MPs uncuffed Omar's arms, pulled them behind his back and recuffed them to his legs, straining them badly at their sockets. At the junction of his arms and legs he was again bolted to the floor and left alone. The degree of pain a human body experiences in this particular "stress position" can quickly lead to delirium, and ultimately to unconsciousness. Before that happened, the MPs returned, forced Omar onto his knees, and cuffed his wrists and ankles together behind his back. This made his body into a kind of bow, his torso convex and rigid, right at the limit of its flexibility. The force of his cuffed wrists straining upward against his cuffed ankles drove his kneecaps into the concrete floor. The guards left.

    An hour or two later they came back, checked the tautness of his chains and pushed him over on his stomach. Transfixed in his bonds, Omar toppled like a figurine. Again they left. Many hours had passed since Omar had been taken from his cell. He urinated on himself and on the floor. The MPs returned, mocked him for a while and then poured pine-oil solvent all over his body. Without altering his chains, they began dragging him by his feet through the mixture of urine and pine oil. Because his body had been so tightened, the new motion racked it. The MPs swung him around and around, the **** and solvent washing up into his face. The idea was to use him as a human mop. When the MPs felt they'd successfully pretended to soak up the liquid with his body, they uncuffed him and carried him back to his cell. He was not allowed a change of clothes for two days.
    Just when I thought I couldn't think less of some posters...
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  80. #80
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    What did he, oh right! He killed someone!!

  81. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by faraz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^give him 10m to make it better then... maybe give me 10m too, I can tell a sad story if I need to, our liberal elite are probably dumb enough to believe it - heck why not give every refugee from a war torn country (which this guy wasn't, he went there, which is the opposite), 10m, to make them feel better too? Some other country like the US might have done something bad to them - why not give them recompense?
    Barring the emotional appeal, your arguments have no legal or any other kind of merit. Also, the government was advised that if this matter goes to court, judges will award him $20m so better to settle it right now at $10m.
    You can't prove the courts would award $20m, there might be one or two judges who don't feel there is an obligation to make somebody a multimillionaire because another country supposedly treated them badly. I'm with Brad Wall:

    For Omar Khadr there ought to never be an offer to "settle".

    Some things are worth the legal fight... right to the end.

  82. #82

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    And that justifies Canada breaching international law & depriving him of basic human rights why?
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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    What did he, oh right! He killed someone!!
    He MAY have killed someone. He was never given a fair trial. The person he is alleged to have killed was a solider, fighting a 'war' who killed who knows how many people?

  84. #84

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    Yep.

    The deprivation of [Khadr's] right to liberty and security of the person is not in accordance with the principles of fundamental justice. The interrogation of a youth detained without access to counsel, to elicit statements about serious criminal charges while knowing that the youth had been subjected to sleep deprivation and while knowing that the fruits of the interrogations would be shared with the prosecutors, offends the most basic Canadian standards about the treatment of detained youth suspects.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  85. #85

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    Quote Originally Posted by Channing View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    What did he, oh right! He killed someone!!
    He MAY have killed someone. He was never given a fair trial. The person he is alleged to have killed was a solider, fighting a 'war' who killed who knows how many people?
    He confessed, and there are videos of him planting IED's. But sure - if US abused him, he should go to the US and sue the US Government. Nothing at all to do with Canadian government - it was his choice to throw a grenade at an unarmed medic, his consequences (and sadly, the medics family). Per Brad Wall:

    For Omar Khadr there ought to never be an offer to "settle".

    Some things are worth the legal fight... right to the end.

  86. #86

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    Given that the Supreme Court is pretty cut & dried about the treaties/laws violated in the handling of his case, I don't think wasting more of the Crown's time, effort & money trying to weasel out of the consequences of their embarrassing & deplorable actions is really the way to go.

    International treaties violated by the imprisonment and treatment of Omar Khadr include the Convention on the Rights of the Child, the Optional Protocol to the Convention on the Rights of the Child on the involvement of children in armed conflict, the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, the Convention against Torture and other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment and the Geneva Conventions. All of this law is binding on Canada.
    https://scc-csc.lexum.com/scc-csc/sc.../7842/index.do
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  87. #87

  88. #88

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    ^so my tax dollars have to pay everyone supposedly abused anywhere in the world by another government? Brilliant analysis by you, but its not what the judgment says, it doesn't say 20m anywhere.

  89. #89

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    ^that's not what the US civil case found. I guess you think the IED video's are fake as well?

    Yet during other moments of the interview, Khadr sounds exactly like the man Welner described on the witness stand: unrepentant and unconvincing. He vehemently denies his father’s al-Qaeda connections—“I know my father, and I don’t accept anybody saying that he’s a bad person”—and compares bin Laden’s training camps to mere martial arts clubs. He skirts around certain questions (about 9/11, his siblings, his father’s death) and when shown a home video of himself expertly wiring and planting improvised explosive devices, he can barely watch the footage. “What’s the point?” he asked.

    Not once does Khadr accept even a shred of responsibility for his lot, consistently shifting the blame to everyone else. Except, of course, the man who dispatched him into battle. “I think he was just a normal dad,” Khadr said. “He was just trying to raise his children the right way.”
    http://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/t...et-khadr-file/
    Last edited by moahunter; 05-07-2017 at 03:26 PM.

  90. #90

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Nothing at all to do with Canadian government
    The Supreme Court of Canada disagrees with your statement:

    This Court declares that through the conduct of Canadian officials in the course of interrogations in 2003-2004, as established on the evidence before us, Canada actively participated in a process contrary to Canada’s international human rights obligations and contributed to Mr. Khadr’s ongoing detention so as to deprive him of his right to liberty and security of the person guaranteed by s. 7 of the Charter , contrary to the principles of fundamental justice.
    https://scc-csc.lexum.com/scc-csc/sc.../7842/index.do
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  91. #91

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    slow clap for those without reading skills. 1) moahunter.

  92. #92

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^so my tax dollars have to pay everyone confirmed to have been denied their Charter rights through the complicity of the Canadian government?
    FTFY, since you're either ignorant or deliberately being disingenuous as to why Omar Khadr is deserving of the settlement.

    And the answer to the revised question is "yes".
    Last edited by noodle; 05-07-2017 at 03:35 PM.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^that's not what the US civil case found. I guess you think the IED video's are fake as well?

    Yet during other moments of the interview, Khadr sounds exactly like the man Welner described on the witness stand: unrepentant and unconvincing. He vehemently denies his father’s al-Qaeda connections—“I know my father, and I don’t accept anybody saying that he’s a bad person”—and compares bin Laden’s training camps to mere martial arts clubs. He skirts around certain questions (about 9/11, his siblings, his father’s death) and when shown a home video of himself expertly wiring and planting improvised explosive devices, he can barely watch the footage. “What’s the point?” he asked.

    Not once does Khadr accept even a shred of responsibility for his lot, consistently shifting the blame to everyone else. Except, of course, the man who dispatched him into battle. “I think he was just a normal dad,” Khadr said. “He was just trying to raise his children the right way.”
    http://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/t...et-khadr-file/
    Different court, same lack of credible evidence.

  94. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^that's not what the US civil case found. I guess you think the IED video's are fake as well?

    Yet during other moments of the interview, Khadr sounds exactly like the man Welner described on the witness stand: unrepentant and unconvincing. He vehemently denies his father’s al-Qaeda connections—“I know my father, and I don’t accept anybody saying that he’s a bad person”—and compares bin Laden’s training camps to mere martial arts clubs. He skirts around certain questions (about 9/11, his siblings, his father’s death) and when shown a home video of himself expertly wiring and planting improvised explosive devices, he can barely watch the footage. “What’s the point?” he asked.

    Not once does Khadr accept even a shred of responsibility for his lot, consistently shifting the blame to everyone else. Except, of course, the man who dispatched him into battle. “I think he was just a normal dad,” Khadr said. “He was just trying to raise his children the right way.”
    http://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/t...et-khadr-file/

    Interesting link, thank you

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    What Moa fails to understand is not everyone who has suffered a hardships or accused of a crime was so deliberately and maliciously denied due process by their own government. That they are being held accountable should be celebrated by everyone.

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    More...adds to what H.L. posted...

    http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada...cid=spartanntp

    Posted for you to read...no editorial comment added or intended.
    Onward and upward

  97. #97

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^so my tax dollars have to pay everyone confirmed to have been denied their Charter rights through the complicity of the Canadian government?
    FTFY, since you're either ignorant or deliberately being disingenuous as to why Omar Khadr is deserving of the settlement.

    And the answer to the revised question is "yes".
    Ignorant and/or deliberately disingenuous is his modus operandi.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  98. #98

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    Thanks for changing the thread title.
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    All,

    I did receive complaints to change the title of this thread as some called it too alt right, etc. After thinking it over, I can agree that the original title was more editorialized given the very sensitive and complex nature of this case. That is to say, this case is not as cut and dry as the original title would suggest.

    I will caution though. By doing this one here, the other titles here on C2E that are as editorialized (i.e. so and so politician is doing a great job, or such and such person is a so and so) are now also up for review. If the bar is to be set that no editorialized OP's are to be allowed, then it has to be equitable.

    Carry on.
    Ow

  100. #100

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    Quote Originally Posted by Admin View Post
    All,

    I did receive complaints to change the title of this thread as some called it too alt right, etc. After thinking it over, I can agree that the original title was more editorialized given the very sensitive and complex nature of this case. That is to say, this case is not as cut and dry as the original title would suggest.

    I will caution though. By doing this one here, the other titles here on C2E that are as editorialized (i.e. so and so politician is doing a great job, or such and such person is a so and so) are now also up for review. If the bar is to be set that no editorialized OP's are to be allowed, then it has to be equitable.

    Carry on.
    Ugh. The world's becoming so unbearably bureaucratic. Flipping whiners. So do I now have to go and change my posts challenging the validity of the original title?

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