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Thread: Russian interference in US politics - starts with James Comey Firing

  1. #2901

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    The web of lies will vindicate Trump and show how corrupt the FBI under Obama had become.

    They even planted a spy (they call him an "informant" - ha ha) into Trump's campaign to leak intel to his political opponents. All this flailing from their side, trying to prove some nonexistent Russian collusion is all they have. And it sure as hell proves they never expected him to win the election.

  2. #2902

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    No, they did not "plant" an informant. More like a rightful whistle blower found something wrong and went to the FBI.

    Are you more akin to staff keeping their master's secrets that may be criminal?

    Sorry, stupid question. We know that you would approve of criminality in politics as a means to an end if it benefits Trump.

    The Mueller investigation continues. BTW, Mr. Trump is squealing like a stuck pig about a one year long witch hunt and his Nunes whitewash was only believed by the weak minded. One year is not a finality of a special investigation.

    The Nixon investigation lasted two and a half years. The Bill Clinton investigation lasted 4 years. The Bengazi investigation also lasted 4 years cumulating in 9 hours of testimony by Hilary Clinton.

    Remind me again; when will Mr. Trump follow up on his multiple commitment to sit down with Mr. Mueller for a 9 hour chat?
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 19-05-2018 at 09:08 PM.
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  3. #2903

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    Did Trump Collude? Depends on Your Expectations.
    Absent definitive evidence, guilt is in the eye of the beholder.
    By Leonid Bershidsky
    May 17, 2018

    https://www.bloomberg.com/view/artic...r-expectations



    We Tried to Collude, But She Didn't Come Through!
    Excerpt:

    “Meanwhile, everyone in Trump's orbit has lied incessantly about the meeting, including that there were an additional five people there, among them a Russian-American lobbyist who was once part of a Soviet counterintelligence unit. And we recently learned...”

    “As observers have pointed out with increasing frequency, it is redundant to say "Russian oligarch close to Vladimir Putin." If you are an oligarch, you're close to Putin-or you're stripped of your holdings, so you're no longer an oligarch. Or you're dead. It's barely an assumption to dismiss the idea that Agalarov was operating independently of the Kremlin. When you take into account that Veselnitskaya, the dirt-promising lawyer, recently admitted that, "Since 2013, I have been actively communicating with the office of the Russian prosecutor general," the plot only thickens. After all, there likely isn't much the Russian prosecutor general gets up to without Mr. Putin's approval, particularly when it involves meddling in another country's elections.”

    https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/...151800052.html
    Last edited by KC; 19-05-2018 at 09:39 PM.

  4. #2904

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Remind me again; when will Mr. Trump follow up on his multiple commitment to sit down with Mr. Mueller for a 9 hour chat?
    If he ever needs to.

    Mueller first should sometime sit down and talk to that Russian lady that met Don Jr, though.

  5. #2905

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    The Trump reality distortion field is in full swing.

    Latest News on Donald Trump Jr. Sparks A Trump Tweet Rant About the “Witch Hunt”
    The president responds to the “failing and crooked” New York Times’ “boring” scoop


    On Saturday, the New York Times reported that Donald Trump Jr. took a second, previously undisclosed meeting during the 2016 presidential election to discuss an overture from a foreign government—this time with an emissary from princes in the United Arab Emirates and Saudi Arabia.


    It’s a pretty damning story, at first glance. But on Sunday President Donald Trump offered alternative read on it—it actually vindicates him, because the disclosure of the meeting meant that special counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation into Russian interference in the election had gone nowhere.


    The story never actually says that, because that doesn’t make any sense. Mueller’s probe has already indicted 19 people—including 13 Russian nationals—and wrung a guilty plea from the president’s first national security adviser. His campaign manager has been indicted. And the Times story notes that Mueller was investigating this second meeting specifically to see if it, too, had been coordinated in some way with the Russians.

    https://www.motherjones.com/politics...nt-witch-hunt/

  6. #2906

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Remind me again; when will Mr. Trump follow up on his multiple commitment to sit down with Mr. Mueller for a 9 hour chat?
    If he ever needs to.

    Mueller first should sometime sit down and talk to that Russian lady that met Don Jr, though.
    Why should Trump fear Mueller if it is a baseless witch hunt and Trump has done nothing wrong?

    Trump should go see Mueller on Wednesday and have a frank discussion in front of a nationally televised audience for a 3 hour version of The Apprentice. Trump can prove how innocent he is, his very stable genius , his best negotiating skills and his excellent memory. He will prove that Mueller has nothing on him. At the end, Trump can say, "You're FIRED!" in front of the adoring crowds...

    Then the FBI agents can haul Trump off to prison.

    Roll credits...
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  7. #2907

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    The reason Trump moved the embassy and doesn't care about the ramifications. Pandering to morons is pretty much his whole schtick.

    Ex-evangelist rips ‘*****’ Christians for thinking Trump’s Jerusalem embassy will hasten the second coming of Jesus

    “The reason they are in the same space — while Palestinians are being shot by snipers over a wall in a 60 to nothing confrontation where 60 Palestinians were killed and no Israeli soldiers are killed at that moment that that is going on — there are white evangelical Trump supporters talking about the embassy coming into Jerusalem as a sort of act of god,” Schaeffer began.


    “But actually it is not by chance,” he elaborated. “The Israeli government and the present prime minister have made it clear that lobbying for the Jerusalem embassy and also support of Israel has focused on pandering to the extremists, the lunatic fringe. Forgive me, the ***** fringe of the evangelical white movement in America that believes that Israel had to return to the original borders described in the Bible in order for Jesus to come back.”


    “And by the way,” he noted. “When he does come back it is to burn most of the Jews who have not believed in him while he’s setting up the new Earth and the new heaven. So we are now looking at exactly what happens with so much evil in the world that comes down to tribalized religious thinking. ”

    https://www.rawstory.com/2018/05/ex-...-coming-jesus/

  8. #2908
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    Sounds like an anti Simetic person as well though. Maybe Adolphs great grandson.

  9. #2909

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    He's simply stating what a large proportion of Christians, particularly American evangelicals believe. They take the whole Book of Revelations very seriously. They're the people who freak out if they see a car with 666 on it's licence plate.

    Half of evangelicals support Israel because they believe it is important for fulfilling end-times prophecy
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.491e602487c3
    And a Jewish perspective.

    Editorial Israel’s Unholy and Transient Alliance With U.S. Evangelicals
    A responsible Israeli government would wean itself of exclusive dependence on messianic Christians


    Christian evangelical movements in the United States claim tens of millions of followers. Most of them believe that Israel’s establishment hastens the second coming of their Messiah and that the reestablishment of the Kingdom of Israel and the Temple are preconditions for the fulfillment of their vision: Armageddon, followed by destruction and the mass conversion of Jews to Christianity. Their beliefs lead them to adhere to the most delusional elements in Israeli politics and to encourage Israel to adopt extremist policies that will bring them closer to their goals.

    https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/edit...cals-1.6097404

  10. #2910
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    Why anyone would want this guy back baffles me after all the trouble over the last couple of thousand years. Not his fault entirely, I guess, but enough is enough already.
    Nisi Dominus Frustra

  11. #2911

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    It's part of their "Kill 'em all, let God sort 'em out" philosophy.
    I am in no way entitled to your opinion...

  12. #2912

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    If Donald is innocent, why does he keep acting so guilty?

    Ex-CIA officer refutes Trump on campaign informant: ‘This is what the FBI does’ if you have a Russian spy on staff

    Baer told CNN on Monday that Trump and Giuliani were being “disingenuous” about the use of informants.


    “The FBI, when it got a lead that [Trump campaign staffer] Carter Page was possibly a Russian agent, at that point was legally obligated to open an investigation, which included putting a tap on his phone,” Baer explained. “And also running a confidential informant into Carter Page and a couple of other suspect Russian moles. This is what the FBI does.”


    “But I guarantee you that the president, President Obama, did not call up the FBI and say, ‘Open up a political investigation into Donald Trump,'” the former CIA officer added. “It just did not happen. He’s conflating these two things: a counter-intelligence investigation and political dirty tricks.”


    Baer was also troubled by Trump’s embrace of conspiracy theories.

    https://www.rawstory.com/2018/05/ex-...ian-spy-staff/

  13. #2913

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    Pressure is building on Cohen to flip.

    Michael Cohen’s Business Partner Agrees to Cooperate as Part of Plea Deal

    A significant business partner of Michael D. Cohen, President Trump’s personal lawyer, has quietly agreed to cooperate with the government as a potential witness, a development that could be used as leverage to pressure Mr. Cohen to work with the special counsel examining Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election.


    Under the agreement, the partner, Evgeny A. Freidman, a Russian immigrant who is known as the Taxi King, will avoid jail time, and will assist government prosecutors in state or federal investigations, according to a person briefed on the matter.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/22/n...gtype=Homepage

  14. #2914

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    Yeah, tough choice. Face 25 years in prison or flip and get 5 years of parole with no jail time. Very tough choice.
    .

    Note that there are both Federal and State players which prevents Trump from pardoning criminals for State charges.
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  15. #2915

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    There is now more concrete evidence showing that Trump was being wiretapped than there is concrete evidence for Russian collusion:


    8 signs pointing to a counterintelligence operation deployed against Trump's campaign

    It may be true that President Trump illegally conspired with Russia and was so good at covering it up he’s managed to outwit our best intel and media minds who've searched for irrefutable evidence for two years. (We still await Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s findings.)


    But there’s a growing appearance of alleged wrongdoing equally as insidious, if not more so, because it implies widespread misuse of America’s intelligence and law enforcement apparatus.


    Here are eight signs pointing to a counterintelligence operation deployed against Trump for political reasons.

    http://thehill.com/opinion/white-hou...against-trumps

  16. #2916

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    There is now more concrete evidence showing that Trump was being wiretapped than there is concrete evidence for Russian collusion:


    8 signs pointing to a counterintelligence operation deployed against Trump's campaign

    It may be true that President Trump illegally conspired with Russia and was so good at covering it up he’s managed to outwit our best intel and media minds who've searched for irrefutable evidence for two years. (We still await Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s findings.)


    But there’s a growing appearance of alleged wrongdoing equally as insidious, if not more so, because it implies widespread misuse of America’s intelligence and law enforcement apparatus.


    Here are eight signs pointing to a counterintelligence operation deployed against Trump for political reasons.

    http://thehill.com/opinion/white-hou...against-trumps
    Pretty well and reasonably written.

    The title though says “counterintelligence operation deployed against Trump's campaign“.

    “Against”? Or INTO the campaign and more specifically its employees and staff.

    Saying against would be like saying counterintelligence operation deployed against the US government, when the FBI investgates potential spies employed by the US government and military. Is it supposed to be that once someone is under government employ they are untouchable by the nation’s intelligence services?

    If Russia, China Israel, Saudi Arabia etc planted, turned or coerced people in the US government into spying I would expect that they would be fair game for surveillance. Moreover if wiretapped or otherwise recorded, I would imaging anyone hire up would thus get drawn into the recordings and potentially fall under suspicion if it seemed that the threat came from higher on up. Similarly in the past suspicious has fallen on the wives, husbands and family of spies. It’s a pretty natural and maybe very reasonable extension of concern.

    Oh, as to there being more concrete evidence one way or the other, that argument can’t be made like that. Maybe saying more publicly available but not more without knowing what the evidence actually is.
    Last edited by KC; 23-05-2018 at 11:41 AM.

  17. #2917

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    Corruption, pay to play, Ukrainians, Cohen...

    “There is no suggestion that Mr Trump knew about the payment.”. Of course not. And Hillary Clinton was in the dark about the pay to play graft too.


    Trump lawyer 'paid by Ukraine' to arrange White House talks - BBC News

    Donald Trump's personal lawyer, Michael Cohen, received a secret payment of at least $400,000 (£300,000) to fix talks between the Ukrainian president and President Trump, according to sources in Kiev close to those involved.
    ...

    Mr Cohen denies the allegation.

    The meeting at the White House was last June. Shortly after the Ukrainian president returned home, his country's anti-corruption agency stopped its investigation into Trump's former campaign manager, Paul Manafort.

    A high-ranking Ukrainian intelligence officer in Mr Poroshenko's administration described what happened before the visit to the White House. ...”


    “There is no suggestion that Mr Trump knew about the payment.

    “The Ukrainian president's office initially refused to comment but, asked by a local journalist to respond, a statement was issued calling the story a "blatant lie, slander and fake". ”

    “Mr Cohen's fee was for getting Mr Poroshenko more than just an embarrassingly brief few minutes of small talk and a handshake, the senior official said. But negotiations continued until the early hours of the day of the visit.”


    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44215656
    Bolding mine
    Last edited by KC; 23-05-2018 at 04:12 PM.

  18. #2918

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    A Back-Channel Plan for Ukraine and Russia, Courtesy of Trump Associates - The New York Times

    https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/02/1...ne-russia.html

  19. #2919

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    And how much of that money went to Trump, directly or indirectly. Or is it a total coincidence that Cohen is the personal attorney of the President of the United States?

    BBC: Michael Cohen was paid at least $400,000 by Ukraine to set up meeting with Trump

    Poroshenko was apparently trying to get back in Trump's good graces after reportedly approving a leak from Ukraine's anti-corruption bureau that showed Manafort receiving millions of dollars from pro-Russian forces in Ukraine.


    Poroshenko appeared relieved as he beamed and paid tribute to Trump in the Oval Office.


    He boasted that he had seen the new president before Russia's leader, Vladimir Putin. He called it a "substantial visit". He held a triumphant news conference in front of the north portico of the White House.


    A week after Poroshenko returned home to Kiev, Ukraine's National Anti Corruption Bureau announced that it was no longer investigating Manafort. [...]


    One source in Kiev said Poroshenko had given Trump "a gift" - making sure that Ukraine would find no more evidence to give the US inquiry into whether the Trump campaign "colluded" with Russia.
    This is how American foreign policy is made under Trump—sold to the highest bidder who might also just grant Trump a gigantic political favor.

    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/201...ing-with-Trump

  20. #2920

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    ...



    Rank-and-File FBI Agents Eager to Blow Whistle on Comey, Holder, Lynch

    “Former FBI Assistant Director James Kallstrom made similar statements when asked last December about morale at the bureau.

    “Well, I think there’s a lot of patriots that have had it up to here with what’s going on, and they’re going to step forward and tell people what the shenanigans have been,” Kallstrom told Fox News’ Stuart Varney. “How they shut down the Clinton Foundation investigation, how other things were done that are so anti-what the FBI and the United States and this country is about.”

    http://www.breitbart.com/big-governm...-lynch-mccabe/

  21. #2921

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    Breitbart fake news still exists???
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  22. #2922
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    Quote Originally Posted by KC
    And Hillary Clinton was in the dark about the pay to play graft too.


    Not a comparable situation at all. While I am no fan of the Clinton's and what they were doing with their foundation, the fact is money going in to the foundation was used for charitable purposes. It's a highly respected/rated charity doing good work. None of the money was going directly to the Clintons or their associates. It was still shady and unethical, but not nearly as corrupt as what we're seeing with Trump and co.

  23. #2923

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    ^ agreed

    The special security meeting they had this morning included a surprise last minute attendee. Emmet Flood, the WH lawyer that does not have security clearance.

    Does anyone smell rotting fish?
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 25-05-2018 at 06:27 AM.
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  24. #2924

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    White House lawyer attends start of Justice Dept. briefings with lawmakers on confidential source
    https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/24/polit...ess/index.html

    White House lawyer Emmet Flood attended the start of two classified Justice Department briefings with lawmakers on a confidential intelligence source, adding to Democratic concerns that White House staff were taking part in the briefings on classified information that was related to the Russia investigation.

    Flood and White House chief of staff John Kelly attended the start of the briefings before leaving. Their attendance was just one of the many twists that accompanied the remarkable back-to-back briefings between senior Trump administration officials and two different groups of lawmakers. White House press secretary Sarah Sanders said Flood and Kelly were there to "facilitate meetings" between the Justice Department officials and Congress and that both men left the meetings "after making brief comments."



    "Neither Chief Kelly nor Mr. Flood actually attended the meetings but did make brief remarks before the meetings started to relay the President's desire for as much openness as possible under the law," Sanders said. "They also conveyed the President's understanding of the need to protect human intelligence services and the importance of communication between the branches of government."
    But Democrats slammed the fact that Flood was there at all.


    Sen. Mark Warner of Virginia, the top Democrat on the Senate Intelligence Committee, said, "Never seen a Gang of Eight meeting that included any presence from the White House. Those individuals left before the substance of it. Unusual times."


    California Rep. Adam Schiff, the top Democrat on the House intelligence panel, called Flood's presence "completely inappropriate."
    "Although he did not participate in the meetings which followed, as the White House's attorney handling the Special Counsel's investigation, his involvement — in any capacity — was entirely improper, and I made this clear to him," Schiff said in a statement.
    In the ultimate irony, Trump wants an investigation for another one of his unsubstantiated conspiracy theories that their was a 'spy' in his campaign and in the process, Trump sends two 'spies' in an attempt to gather confidential information about an ongoing investigation.
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  25. #2925

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC
    And Hillary Clinton was in the dark about the pay to play graft too.


    Not a comparable situation at all. While I am no fan of the Clinton's and what they were doing with their foundation, the fact is money going in to the foundation was used for charitable purposes. It's a highly respected/rated charity doing good work. None of the money was going directly to the Clintons or their associates. It was still shady and unethical, but not nearly as corrupt as what we're seeing with Trump and co.
    So are you saying one looks like “pay to play” and the other doesn’t? If they both look like pay to play then are they not therefore comparable, even if aspects of the methodology, motives and resulting details differ?


    FBI launches new investigation into Hillary Clinton's charitable foundation

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-a8143061.html
    Last edited by KC; 25-05-2018 at 07:07 AM.

  26. #2926
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    Again, it DOES matter where the money is going and what it's being used for, even if it's pay to play in both cases. It's safe to assume that the Clinton Foundation's charitable work is a little more honorable than the personal enrichment of Trump and his cronies. That doesn't absolve the Clinton's; as I specifically said it's still unethical. Perhaps saying "not comparable" was clumsy and I should have said "nowhere near as greasy" or something to that effect.

  27. #2927

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    Fine, investigate the Clinton Foundation. If there was criminal activity, press charges.

    At the same time, investigate the Trump fake charity and let us know how that turns out..
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  28. #2928

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    I'm sure that Trump had no idea his personal attorney was doing any of this. As matter of fact, he hardly knows the man.

    Trump ‘fixer’ Michael Cohen met with Russian oligarch to discuss US-Russia relations days before inauguration

    The New York Times reports that Cohen and Vekselberg met in Cohen’s office on the 26th floor of Trump Tower to talk about ways to improve relations between the United States and Russia.


    Just weeks before, Russian intelligence agents had used WikiLeaks as a conduit to leak out emails stolen from Hillary Clinton’s campaign, which drew significant media coverage during a crucial stretch of the race.


    The Times says that meeting was arranged by American businessman Andrew Intrater, who invests money on behalf of Vekselberg, a Russian billionaire with deep ties to Russian President Vladimir Putin.


    Days after Trump was inaugurated, Intrater’s company, a private equity firm Columbus Nova, gave Cohen a $1 million contract for “consulting” work that appears similar to the contracts given to Cohen by pharmaceutical giant Novartis and telecom giant AT&T that were awarded in exchange for direct access to Trump.

    https://www.rawstory.com/2018/05/tru...-inauguration/

  29. #2929

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    Expect Trump to start going after Spain any time now.

    'Trump's son should be concerned': Wiretaps show Trump Jr. met with Putin ally

    The FBI has obtained secret wiretaps collected by Spanish police of conversations involving Alexander Torshin, a deputy governor of Russia’s Central Bank who has forged close ties with U.S. lawmakers and the National Rifle Association, that led to a meeting with Donald Trump Jr. during the gun lobby’s annual convention in Louisville in May, 2016, a top Spanish prosecutor said Friday.


    Jose Grinda, who has spearheaded investigations into Spanish organized crime said that bureau officials in recent months requested and were provided transcripts of wiretapped conversations between Torshin and Alexander Romanov, a convicted Russian money launderer. On the wiretaps, Romanov refers to Torshin as “El Padrino,” his godfather.


    “Just a few months ago, the wiretaps of these telephone conversations were given to the FBI,” Grinda said in response to a question from Yahoo News during a talk he gave at the Hudson Institute, a conservative think tank in Washington. Asked if he was concerned about Torshin’s meetings with Donald Trump Jr. and other American political figures, Grinda replied: “Mr. Trump’s son should be concerned.”

    https://www.aol.com/article/news/201...ally/23443917/

  30. #2930

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    OK, they had their meeting about Trump's so called spy conspiracy and what came out of it? Apparently nothing. If there was something there, you can bet that Trump would be tslking about it endlessly today. He isn't.

    This is another huge nothin' burger from Trump.

    Rack the spy conspiracy up with his so called proof that Obama was not born in the USA, that the inauguration crowd was the largest ever and millions of dead people voted.
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  31. #2931

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    Rudy Giuliani admits 'Spygate' is Trump PR tactic against Robert Mueller
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...r-donald-trump

    Former New York City mayor Rudy Giuliani said on Sunday that his repeated imputations of a supposed scandal at the heart of the Robert Mueller investigation – which Donald Trump calls “Spygate” – amounted to a tactic to sway public opinion and limit the risk of the president being impeached.

    “Of course we have to do it to defend the president,” Trump’s lawyer told CNN State of the Union host Dana Bash, who accused him of being part of a campaign to undermine the Mueller investigation. Trump has repeatedly called the special counsel’s work a “witch hunt”, despite its producing five guilty pleas, including by three former Trump aides, and evidence of Russian tampering in US elections.

    “It is for public opinion,” Giuliani said of his public campaign of dissimulation. “Because eventually the decision here is going to be impeach or not impeach. Members of Congress, Democrats and Republicans, are going to be informed a lot by their constituents. And so our jury – and it should be – is the American people
    On ABC’s This Week on Sunday, the Democrat Adam Schiff, ranking member of the House intelligence committee, said: “This is part of the propaganda machine. Let’s spread a completely fallacious story and then say it needs to be investigated, and give it a life of its own.”
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  32. #2932

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    McConnell says he backs Mueller probe after classified briefing

    http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/3...ified-briefing

    Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) said Thursday after attending a classified briefing that he continues to support special counsel Robert Mueller's investigation into Russian meddling in the 2016 presidential election, including possible collusion between the Trump campaign and Moscow.

    McConnell told NPR that Mueller's investigation and a separate probe by the Justice Department's inspector general into the FBI's actions during the 2016 election will ultimately provide answers to a number of questions swirling around the presidential race.
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  33. #2933
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    Wonder how Trump will react to that news. Probably start by attacking McConnell.
    They're going to park their car over there. You're going to park your car over here. Get it?

  34. #2934

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    BREAKING: Trump’s campaign manager Paul Manafort 'TAMPERED' with potential witnesses
    https://www.express.co.uk/news/world...fort-tampering
    Federal prosecutors have accused Donald Trump’s former campaign manager Paul Manafort of attempting to tamper with witnesses in his federal tax and lobbying case.

    In court documents Robert Mueller said Mr Manafort has tried to contact witnesses by phone and via an encrypted messaging service.

    Special Counsel prosecutors say Mr Manafort was "attempting to tamper with potential witnesses while on pretrial release and, accordingly, has violated the conditions of his release”.

    Prosecutors said Mr Manafort has broken violations of his release while he awaits trial.

    They have asked federal judges to revise or revoke his terms of release meaning the President’s former campaign manager could face imprisonment until his trial.
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  35. #2935

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    Dot connecting.

    EXCLUSIVE: Former Fox News reporter says Russians colluded with Trump campaign through Roger Stone
    New book details Russians' decisive role in making Trump's campaign messages go viral.

    In a series of exclusive interviews, former Fox News Channel chief political correspondent Carl Cameron explained to ThinkProgress how the Russians coordinated their cyber attack on the 2016 election with the Trump campaign.


    “Trump confidant Roger Stone’s success was having the connections and creating the opportunities for [Russian intelligence officer] Guccifer2.0 and other Russian groups to really start taking advantage of social media and pounding these negative memes that Hillary’s a crook, et cetera,” Cameron explained to ThinkProgress’ Joe Romm — as related in the new book, How to Go Viral and Reach Millions.

    Russian interference was decisive in electing Trump, as former director of national intelligence James R. Clapper Jr. told PBS in late May. “To me, it just exceeds logic and credulity that they didn’t affect the election, and it’s my belief they actually turned it,” Clapper said.

    https://thinkprogress.org/former-fox...-595f6ddd09d8/

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    ^A presidential candidate openly invites a foreign power (let alone an adversarial one) to hack his competitor's campaign and it barely registered in the minds of voters. If this was a "normal" time it would be considered unpatriotic, but a large portion of the electorate don't care or cannot grasp the consequences of such a provocation. So I wonder if collusion was proven to be true whether enough people would even care. If you were ever curious as to how dictators come to power or how personality cults develop Americans are basically in a petri dish.
    Did my dog just fall into a pothole???

  37. #2937

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    Throughout history, people have been often enamoured by populist strongmen who lied their way into power, promising to fix everything and vilifying their opponents. Once they get into power, they are corrupt and oppress people while enablers cover up their crimes and violations of the laws and constitutional rules. They demand absolute power, privilege and unquestionable loyalty. It starts in small incremental steps and over time people suddenly realize that they believed "the Big Lie"

    We have seen this many times all over the world.

    They call them dictators.
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 06-06-2018 at 05:56 AM.
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  38. #2938
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    Quote Originally Posted by norwoodguy
    So I wonder if collusion was proven to be true whether enough people would even care.


    Collusion HAS been proven. Trump Jr./Manafort/Kushner met with Russian nationals to try to get dirt on Clinton. No one denies that, at this point. While they failed in getting anything of use, they were indeed eager to collude. Problem is, collusion isn't a legal term. But at this point, it's been proven that Trump's son, son in law, and campaign manager tried to collude with representatives of a foreign government to get dirt on their opponent. What remains to be shown is what Trump himself knew about it.

  39. #2939

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    Why would Russia need to be reinstated when they've already got someone advocating for their interests?

    Trump says Russia should be reinstated in group of leading industrialized nations

    Quebec City (CNN)President Donald Trump said Friday that Russia should be reinstated to a leading group of industrialized nations ahead of his visit to the G7 summit this weekend.


    Trump's statement is an extraordinary break from key US allies, and particularly striking given Russia's meddling in the 2016 election. A special counsel investigation into whether Trump campaign officials colluded with Russia is underway, though Trump has repeatedly denied the allegations.
    "Russia should be in this meeting," Trump told reporters upon leaving the White House for the summit, which is being held in Charlevoix, Canada. "They should let Russia come back in, because we should have Russia at the negotiating table."


    Russia was suspended from the group -- then known as the G8 -- in 2014 after the majority of member countries allied against Russia's annexation of Crimea, which Russia continues to hold.

    https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/08/polit...-g7/index.html

  40. #2940
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by norwoodguy
    So I wonder if collusion was proven to be true whether enough people would even care.


    Collusion HAS been proven. Trump Jr./Manafort/Kushner met with Russian nationals to try to get dirt on Clinton. No one denies that, at this point. While they failed in getting anything of use, they were indeed eager to collude. Problem is, collusion isn't a legal term. But at this point, it's been proven that Trump's son, son in law, and campaign manager tried to collude with representatives of a foreign government to get dirt on their opponent. What remains to be shown is what Trump himself knew about it.
    This is not collusion. Collusion would require that evidence (false) be planted etc. Investigation of someone is never collusion no matter who you do it with. You can ask a triple axe murderer if they have the goods on someone and you are "not" colluding with them.

  41. #2941

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    Uh, no. You definition is not correct.

    col·lu·sion
    kəˈlo͞oZHən/Submit
    noun
    secret or illegal cooperation or conspiracy, especially in order to cheat or deceive others.

  42. #2942
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    Digging up dirt is not collusion - planting it is.

  43. #2943

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    No collusion! Witch hunt! etc, etc.

    Mueller indicts Konstantin Kilimnik — Paul Manafort’s ‘Russian brain’


    "Special counsel Robert Mueller has indicted Paul Manafort’s longtime associate with recent ties to Russian intelligence.


    The indictment was filed Friday against Konstantin Kilimnik on three counts in federal court, reported Bloomberg News.


    Manfort, who served as President Donald Trump’s campaign chairman, described Kilimnik as his “Russian brain” throughout their lengthy partnership in eastern Europe.


    The 48-year-old Kilimnik, who lives in Moscow, was suspected of maintaining ties to the Russian military intelligence agency GRU."

    https://www.rawstory.com/2018/06/mue...russian-brain/

  44. #2944

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krokwalk View Post
    Digging up dirt is not collusion - planting it is.
    No, you're talking about false evidence, also known as planted evidence among others.

    You could, however, consider the letter that Trump dictated refuting the details of the Trump Tower meeting as it was demonstrably false based on the evidence such as Don Jr's e-mails, as false evidence.

    False evidence

    Forged evidence - an item or information manufactured, or altered, to support some agenda, is not admissible in many courts, including U.S. criminal courts.


    Planted evidence - an item or information which has been moved, or planted at a scene, to seem related to the accused party, is not admissible in many courts, including U.S. criminal courts.


    Tainted evidence - information which has been obtained by illegal means or has been revealed (or traced) using evidence acquired by illegal search, and/or seizure, is called the "fruit of the poisonous tree" and is not admissible in many courts, including U.S. criminal courts.


    Parallel construction - tainted evidence, where the origin of the evidence is untruthfully represented, preventing discussion of whether it was legally obtained or not.


    Suppressed evidence - an item or information which a court judge has ruled as "inadmissible" is forbidden to be presented in a court case. Suppressed evidence might be excluded because it was found hidden or locked away in areas the accused could not be proven to know.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_evidence

  45. #2945

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    More Trump-Russia connections. Eight hours after Trump's architect gets a call from an investigative reporter, he announced on Twitter that he was closing his firm after 10 years in business

    Meet the New York architect who was a key figure in Donald Trump's deals and connections in Eastern Europe
    https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/06/how-...rn-europe.html

    As Robert Mueller looks ever more closely at President Donald Trump's foreign business ties, one former associate has remained outside the spotlight despite playing a key role in Trump's quest for real estate deals in former Soviet lands.

    Architect John Fotiadis designed some of Trump's most ambitious luxury developments there. A master of glass-encased towers and monumental entrances — hallmarks of Trump's properties — the New York architect supplied vision and technical expertise that complemented Trump's salesmanship and attorney-fixer Michael Cohen's brass-tacks negotiating.


    Fotiadis' work offers a window into Trump's dealings in the complex, opaque world of Eurasian real estate. Today, several of these projects are reportedly under scrutiny by the special counsel, who is investigating Russian meddling in the 2016 election and any means by which Moscow might have exerted influence over Trump or his campaign, including through his business deals.

    There are no indications that Fotiadis has done anything wrong and no indications that Mueller is investigating that possibility.


    Between 2007 and 2013, Fotiadis designed all or part of six Trump-branded developments: a Trump Tower in Kazakhstan; a Trump-branded seaside resort in the republic of Georgia; a 47-story Trump Tower in Tbilisi, Georgia; hotel rooms at the Trump Tower in Istanbul; a Trump movie studio complex in Florida; and major portions of the Trump Parc Stamford, a condominium tower in Connecticut.

    "The architect is a key part of the Trump sales pitch when he goes into these countries, and he's convincing the money guys to give him a branding and development deal," said Jan deRoos, a Cornell University professor of real estate finance. "The architect is the one who translates the Trump brand into actual design and construction standards."


    In Eurasia, Trump's deals often involved complex networks of investors and middlemen. For instance, Trump's 2011 deal to build a Fotiadis-designed resort in Georgia was set up by Giorgi Rtskhiladze, an international financier who, four years later, would arrange for Cohen to receive a proposal from a Russian millionaire seeking to partner with Trump on real estate in Russia.


    The McClatchy news service reported in April that Mueller's probe was looking more closely at the people involved in Trump's dealings in three countries, Georgia, Kazakhstan and Russia.


    Fotiadis covers his trail
    Around this time, CNBC received a tip that Fotiadis had worked on several Trump projects in Eurasia. Curious about his professional relationship with Trump, CNBC reached out to Fotiadis on April 11 for comment about this work.


    Fotiadis did not respond to a call or an email. But eight hours later, he announced on Twitter that he was closing his firm, John Fotiadis Architect, or JFA, after 10 years in business. A few days later, Fotiadis closed the Twitter account he had used to announce he was closing down his firm. By the end of the week, all the content from Fotiadis' professional website, including his portfolio, had been removed, leaving only a note saying he planned to join a New Jersey-based engineering company.


    Gone was Fotiadis' impressive portfolio of 30 projects (some of which are pictured below), including villas, schools and office buildings he has designed for clients around the world. Also gone was any reference to the two overseas branches of JFA that he had opened — in Tbilisi and Kiev, Ukraine.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  46. #2946

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    Who's really surprised by this?


    Trump’s Policies Paying Off For Man Who Helped Make Him President: Vladimir Putin

    The fraying of the alliance between the United States and Western Europe has been a longtime Russian goal.

    Trump has loudly criticized the NATO military alliance as unduly burdensome for the United States. He has started a trade war with many of those same allies. And on his way to the G-7 summit of industrialized democracies Friday morning, he suggested that those nations re-admit Russia to the gathering ― even though Russia continues to occupy part of Ukraine, the reason it was expelled from the group in the first place.


    “If this were a screenplay, Hollywood would have thrown it out as too ridiculous,” said Tom Nichols, a Russia expert at the Naval War College. “I can’t think of anybody who thinks this is a good idea.”


    “Today crystallizes precisely why Putin was so eager to see Trump elected,” said Ned Price, a former CIA analyst and the National Security Council spokesman under then-President Barack Obama. “For Putin, this is return on his investment, and it’s safe to say that his investment has paid off beyond even his wildest dreams.”

    https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/...b09d7a3d726414

  47. #2947
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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Who's really surprised by this?
    Trump has never made a cogent case for the benefits of better relations with Russia nor does he express any expectations of what Russia would give up in return which a great negotiator would have extracted. Whereas we already have examples of direct benefit to his business interests from money sent his way from wealthy Russians.
    Did my dog just fall into a pothole???

  48. #2948

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    Whether Russia is back with the G7 (G8?) or not is a moot point because the Euros are going to keep their relationships and ties to the Russians anyway. The only difference is whether it's in the official G7 or other channels.

    The Italian PM suggested it first, anyway. Of course journalists working for lefty media outlets are going to write opinion stories against Trump for agreeing, regardless.

  49. #2949

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    Maybe let Russia back in and get rid of that dictator from the G7. POTUS
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  50. #2950
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    After interpreting Trump's statements as America ceding Crimea to Russia, their state media declares "Trump Is Ours!".

    Trump sees Russia's interests aligning with his seeing as how he has benefited from their money.

    Business Insider
    Did my dog just fall into a pothole???

  51. #2951

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    This is interesting:


    Russian Who Offered Clinton Dirt to Trump Campaign Outed Himself as Former FBI Informant


    A Russian man that offered to sell damaging information on Hillary Clinton to the campaign of then-candidate Donald Trump revealed in earlier court documents that he had been a long-time FBI informant.


    The man, Henry Greenberg, offered to sell the unspecified information for $2 million in late May, 2016, but the Trump campaign associate refused.


    Greenberg, who also used the name Oknyansky, filed two dozen documents with a federal court in 2015, showing an FBI agent repeatedly brokered his entry into the United States on a special visa for people assisting law enforcement.
    https://www.theepochtimes.com/russia...t_2567077.html


    Gives credit to Trump's theory that he was being spied on.

  52. #2952
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    Really, it gives credit to Trump who said that he was being wiretapped by the FBI? This is a guy who may or may not have been working with the FBI, but of course you'll jump to assume he's part of a big FBI conspiracy.

    BTW - I bet you can't wait to read the next IG report on the leaks coming out of the NY FBI office, right?

    https://www.miamiherald.com/news/pol...213359854.html

    Figuring there had to be a lot more to the story, Caputo says he hired a Palm Beach private investigations company to look into Greenberg. "What they found were federal court documents proving, irrefutably, that he's been working for the FBI for years," Caputo said. "When he tried to sell us dirt on Clinton, it was an FBI operation...The FBI sent a violent, illegal-alien criminal Russian to meet with us."

    Actually, the records dredged up by the P.I. don't make clear whether Greenberg was still an informant when he met with Stone in Sunny Isles Beach in March 2016, and there is an indication in the file that he may have severed his connection with the feds.

    In any event, if Greenberg was indeed dangling an offer of dirt on Clinton in front of Trump's campaign at the behest of the FBI, it would call into question what the bureau has said about its investigation into alleged Russian collusion. It would mean the FBI was looking into Russians about two months before it has said its probe officially began, and long before the organization WikiLeaks began releasing hacked Democratic Party emails.

    .......

    Miami agents promised to honor the deal for the S visa, Greenberg said. But when several months passed with no action on the visa, he stopped cooperating with the FBI, which in return handed him over to the Department of Homeland Security for deportation. Instead, DHS released him into a sort of legal limbo.

    "I think it's unfair," Greenberg wrote. "I cooperated with the FBI for 17 years, often put my life in danger. Based on my information, there is so many arrests criminals from drugs and human trafficking, money laundering and insurance frauds. U.S. Treasury revoked many U.S. visas from criminal groups, for money laundering and association with international criminal entities, based on my information."

    Much about Greenberg is unclear, including where he currently is and whether he had resumed working for the FBI. If he hadn't, then it could mean his offer to sell the Trump advisors derogatory information about Clinton was a private scam conducted on his own.

    Which, one former federal prosecutor told the Herald, is probably what happened. The prosecutor, though he'd never heard of Greenberg and was unfamiliar with the case, said that the circumstances made it entirely plausible that Greenberg was working for the FBI's foreign counterintelligence section, which doesn't ordinarily collaborate with the bureau's criminal section.
    They're going to park their car over there. You're going to park your car over here. Get it?

  53. #2953

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    "I have nothing to do with Russia. Fake news!" - Donald Trump.

    Trump was sustained through 2008 real estate crash by all-cash transactions from Russian oligarchs

    McClatchy documents a flurry of all-cash sales that Donald Trump made directly to oligarchs, mobsters, and Putin-allies in Russian and former Soviet states while the real estate market was in freefall. That includes deals for people who were heavily involved in the Russian-invaded territory of Crimea. These cash-up-front transactions aren’t a sideline for Trump. They are the core of his business.


    Buyers connected to Russia or former Soviet republics made 86 all-cash sales—totaling nearly $109 million—at 10 Trump-branded properties in South Florida and New York City, according to a new analysis shared with McClatchy. Many of them made purchases using shell companies designed to obscure their identities.
    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/201...sian-oligarchs

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