Results 1 to 29 of 29

Thread: How much has your power / gas gone up in January versus December?

  1. #1

    Default How much has your power / gas gone up in January versus December?

    Curious how people have been impacted by the carbon tax so far and as their bills roll in.

    I live in a condo, so I will not know the impact on heating / gas until later in year when our condo fees will be reviewed to consider this item. However, I do pay for electricity, and the amount I use is almost exactly the same month to month.

    Two bills ago I paid $37.54

    Latest bill is $47.47 (to January 25, so mostly impacted by carbon tax).

    A 26% increase.

  2. #2

    Default

    So you're saying your electricity bill has gone up 26% even though there's been no change in taxation on generation facilities, nor a huge change in the rates, but it's totally the carbon tax's fault?



    Rate for February is 3.873˘/kWh.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  3. #3

    Default

    ^yes, my bill has gone up by 26%. Its the highest electricity bill I have had in six years in this condo. Sure, that might be a total coincidence with the carbon tax coming in like you claim. Lets see if anyone else notices they have a higher bill, or if its exactly the same / no change, or even went down.

  4. #4

    Default

    And the 26% is due entirely due to a tax that's 100% not applicable to electric energy generation?

    There's been no significant changes in the delivery, transmission or administration costs & the rates have been roughly 4 cents through the entire period. There's exactly one variable left in the equation & that's your own usage.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  5. #5

    Default

    my bill went way up in December. December was a very cold dark month. My usage was up. more lights on then usual, large family gatherings at my place, stove/oven running non-stop for a few days. Furnace working heavily to keep the house warm.

    AESO claimed that we beat a consumption record at one of the cold days in december. https://www.aeso.ca/aeso/media/new-r...cross-alberta/

    but ya, #thanksNDP, #thanksSanta, #thanksTrudeau, #thanksCarbonTax #ThanksObama

  6. #6
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Edmonton
    Posts
    6,418

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Curious how people have been impacted by the carbon tax so far and as their bills roll in.

    I live in a condo, so I will not know the impact on heating / gas until later in year when our condo fees will be reviewed to consider this item. However, I do pay for electricity, and the amount I use is almost exactly the same month to month.

    Two bills ago I paid $37.54

    Latest bill is $47.47 (to January 25, so mostly impacted by carbon tax).

    A 26% increase.
    But how much did it increase year over year, January vs January? Because October vs January isn't a fair comparison.

  7. #7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex.L View Post
    But how much did it increase year over year, January vs January? Because October vs January isn't a fair comparison.
    Given a fixed, typical amount of usage a given customer would be paying less in January 2017 than 2016, given the ~23% decline in cost per unit consumed YOY & the rest of the costs staying in line.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  8. #8
    C2E Hard Core Contributor
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Sherwood park
    Posts
    2,288

    Default

    My gas bill shows the Carbon Levy at $10.59 for the ten days of January on my bill. A dollar a day in the highest use time period.

  9. #9

    Default

    So you used about 10GJ of gas in that period? Seems about right.

    Average Albertan home uses about 120GJ a year, with roughly 75% of that occurring during the coldest 4 months of the year. 30 GJ for a month-long period straddling the new year seems pretty on the nose.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  10. #10
    C2E Hard Core Contributor
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Edmonton
    Posts
    3,630

    Default

    I know the bottom line dollar amount is what everyone focuses on, but it should be that price relative to consumption amount.

    We also used a massive amount of power in December (january bill), multiple families staying over, christmas lights, lots of cooking, home a lot more. I only track the power consumption. It was 900 kwh, which is almost 50% higher than our 6yr average, though we did have a 990kwh use 2 yrs ago. Even so, I think our power bill was pretty low due to power being cheaper than in previous years (even with the tax).

    People choose vehicles based on mileage information. But how much they drive the vehicle has a bigger impact on their actual gas consumption.

    Maybe someday in the future homes will come with a power and gas consumption efficiency.

  11. #11
    C2E Hard Core Contributor
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Sherwood park
    Posts
    2,288

    Default

    Yup. 30.85GJ of gas used in the darkest, coldest days of the year. Even my house is average.

  12. #12

    Default

    Still not voting for Kenney.

    Nice try.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  13. #13
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Westmount, Edmonton
    Posts
    5,335

    Default

    I'm on a floating rate so my rate actually dropped for January vs December. 3.3 per GJ to 2.97 per GJ. I expect that's due to the fairly high demand during the December cold snap. As as been already noted, the carbon tax has no effect on electricity prices.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

  14. #14
    C2E Stole my Heart!!!!
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Downtown Edmonton
    Posts
    9,807

    Default

    Yes, but moahunter's alternative facts would indicate that power prices went up 26% overnight (even though that's an impossibility). Who is correct? You decide!

  15. #15
    C2E Hard Core Contributor
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Edmonton
    Posts
    2,415

    Default

    Electric energy charge for the period Dec 17-January 18 (531 kWh consumed in 32 days) is $26.94.

    Last month's bill for the period Nov 18-Dec 16 (433 kWh consumed in 28 days) was $22.25.

    No carbon tax applied. Small increase explained by a higher per kWh charge on the default rate and more billing days compared to the previous month.

    By way of comparison 10 years ago between Dec 15-Jan 17, we consumed 938 kWh and the electric energy charge was $89.91. Electricity rates were 2.5 times higher than they are today.

    Looking back a decade, we were real electricity gluttons. Same house but we've invested in energy efficient appliances and light bulbs, a high efficiency furnace, and our two sons have moved out.

  16. #16

    Default

    Can we not give this implementation of the carbon tax a full six months before we start seriously considering it's overall impact on our finances. Even a full year would be better.
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

  17. #17
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    edmonton
    Posts
    4,288

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by East McCauley View Post
    Electric energy charge for the period Dec 17-January 18 (531 kWh consumed in 32 days) is $26.94.

    Last month's bill for the period Nov 18-Dec 16 (433 kWh consumed in 28 days) was $22.25.

    No carbon tax applied. Small increase explained by a higher per kWh charge on the default rate and more billing days compared to the previous month.

    By way of comparison 10 years ago between Dec 15-Jan 17, we consumed 938 kWh and the electric energy charge was $89.91. Electricity rates were 2.5 times higher than they are today.

    Looking back a decade, we were real electricity gluttons. Same house but we've invested in energy efficient appliances and light bulbs, a high efficiency furnace, and our two sons have moved out.
    LOL! That's probably the big one.
    Nisi Dominus Frustra

  18. #18
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Westmount, Edmonton
    Posts
    5,335

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    Can we not give this implementation of the carbon tax a full six months before we start seriously considering it's overall impact on our finances. Even a full year would be better.
    Especially considering comparing utility bills month to month makes no sense with our seasonal variations.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

  19. #19

    Default

    Good article.

    Also, just what we need, another knee-jerk politician:

    Just the (alternative?!) facts, ma'am: Why there's so much carbon tax confusion - Business - CBC News

    ...
    Only a few days after the levy was introduced, a story made the rounds about a recreation centre in Calgary that expected the new tax to increase its annual natural gas bill of $60,000 by a third. On the electricity side of its bill, the facility was bracing for costs to jump 20 per cent or more than $70,000.

    Alarm bells over the sudden spike likely went off for anyone who read the story, and quite rightly so. But a closer look shows the carbon levy applies only to the natural gas used by the facility and not the other fixed charges that make up the entire bill, the upshot being that costs won't go up by nearly as much as suggested. As for electricity, while costs may rise, it won't be because of the carbon tax. Major power producers, which do pay for carbon emissions, are still under legacy rules that didn't change when the new tax was adopted on Jan. 1.
    ...


    Despite the correction, the confusion was compounded when former federal cabinet minister and current Alberta Progressive Conservative leadership candidate Jason Kenney sent the story to more than 90,000 followers with the tweet: "Disgusting: the NDP's carbon tax has massively increased the cost of cremation for grieving families. No compassion."

    ...

    On that score, at a recent rally Kenney also told supporters: "One school district, Elk Island, told me it's going to cost them $800,000 more to run their buses this year."

    According to school board spokesperson Trina Boymook, the carbon tax is currently expected to increase next school year's busing costs by $80,000.

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/carb...ruth-1.3953391
    Bolding was mine
    Last edited by KC; 01-02-2017 at 09:37 PM.

  20. #20
    C2E Hard Core Contributor
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Sherwood park
    Posts
    2,288

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Good article.

    Also, just what we need, another knee-jerk politician:

    ... But a closer look shows the carbon levy applies only to the natural gas used by the facility and not the other fixed charges that make up the entire bill, the upshot being that costs won't go up by nearly as much as suggested. As for electricity, while costs may rise, it won't be because of the carbon tax. Major power producers, which do pay for carbon emissions, are still under legacy rules that didn't change when the new tax was adopted on Jan. 1.
    ...

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/carb...ruth-1.3953391
    Bolding was mine

    So basically what noodle told us weeks ago.

  21. #21

    Default

    ^ er, yesterday?
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  22. #22

    Default

    Weeks ago. Maybe on the Climate plan thread ... and I believe he posted a news article saying so

    Basically, subject to correction, the carbon tax isn't a new tax and large emitters already paid the Conservative's previous Carbon Tax and I guess there's no great change for some or all of those large emitters

    CBC Calgary news article from last year. (I guess no one read it. )

    'Electricity prices aren't expected to move at all': Why Alberta's carbon tax won't hike your power bill

    Large emitters already paying carbon price and new system will include subsidies for power generation
    https://www.google.ca/amp/www.cbc.ca...?client=safari
    Last edited by KC; 02-02-2017 at 07:57 AM.

  23. #23

    Default

    Conservatives love carbon taxes - Progress Alberta QA
    http://www.progressalberta.ca/conser..._carboon_taxes

  24. #24

    Default

    Since 2007 but if you called it a "tax" you were terminated

    I love the use of "can pay"



    Ten things to know about carbon pricing in Alberta - Parkland Institute



    1. Alberta has had a price on carbon for large industrial emitters since 2007


    Facilities that do not achieve the required emissions reductions can pay $20 for every tonne over their reduction target to the fund. The price per tonne increases to $30 as of January 1, 2017.


    http://www.parklandinstitute.ca/ten_...ing_in_alberta
    Last edited by KC; 02-02-2017 at 08:37 AM.

  25. #25

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SP59 View Post
    So basically what noodle told us weeks ago.
    But what about natural gas? That is definitely going to go up compared to pre carbon tax (albeit gas is at historic lows for now). The thread concerns both, albeit being a condo dweller it will be a while before I know the gas impact, as it will flow to my condo fees.

  26. #26
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Westmount, Edmonton
    Posts
    5,335

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SP59 View Post
    So basically what noodle told us weeks ago.
    But what about natural gas? That is definitely going to go up compared to pre carbon tax (albeit gas is at historic lows for now). The thread concerns both, albeit being a condo dweller it will be a while before I know the gas impact, as it will flow to my condo fees.
    Do you have access the condo's gas bill's from previous years? Take the GJ and multiply by 1.011 and you'll get the levy amount.

    My last bill only covers the first few days of January but if my next bill has similar usage to last year then I'll be paying around $13 more on it for January. For the entire year, again based on last years usage, I'll be around $68.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

  27. #27

    Default

    For NG the impact on a residential home annually will be about $125, on top of the base rates you'd be paying regardless.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  28. #28

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Turnbull View Post

    My last bill only covers the first few days of January but if my next bill has similar usage to last year then I'll be paying around $13 more on it for January. For the entire year, again based on last years usage, I'll be around $68.
    That's some impressively low NG consumption, about half of typical. Well done!
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  29. #29
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Westmount, Edmonton
    Posts
    5,335

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Turnbull View Post

    My last bill only covers the first few days of January but if my next bill has similar usage to last year then I'll be paying around $13 more on it for January. For the entire year, again based on last years usage, I'll be around $68.
    That's some impressively low NG consumption, about half of typical. Well done!
    Thanks. To be fair it's not a big house although it is over 90 years old. When I moved in 15 years ago the first thing we did was replace the furnace with a 98% one. Cost $4k but paid itself off in less than five years. We also keep the house temp pretty low default is 18C for the times people are home and awake (although we do turn it up sometimes) and 13C during weekdays and night.

    The weather has helped too, last years warm winter kept the bill down. Our December bill this year was the highest in a long time at 16 GJ.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •