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Thread: HMV Canada to close all 102 stores

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    Default HMV Canada to close all 102 stores

    HMV Canada to close all 102 stores

    http://business.financialpost.com/ne...all-102-stores
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    End of an era, but not surprising after seeing how terribly they handled the change in the marketplace.

    Wonder what'll take their space up in WEM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    End of an era, but not surprising after seeing how terribly they handled the change in the marketplace.

    Wonder what'll take their space up in WEM.
    How should they have handled it?

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    Yeah, a lot better than Blockbuster fared, but not unpredicted.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

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    Not at all shocking... this has been coming for over a decade.

    Now though instead of blaming file sharing they'll say it was because of online digital sales and streaming. Legal means for the death! Physical media is practically dead and uninformed, corporate drones like the ones working at HMV didn't help matters. Good riddance.

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    If your customers abandon your product, it's tough to survive. I guess they could have tried to pull a Netflix.

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    That's pretty much what happened. The only way to survive, which I think they did IIRC, is to offer digital music online. However, with the juggernaut that is iTunes and all the other established places to buy digital music, it just wasn't going to pan out. Look no further than the recent closure of video on demand service Shomi for what happens when you don't get a foot in relatively early and have limited selection. In my particular case regarding HMV, I wouldn't dream of spending a cent for digital compressed lossy Mp3 music files and I don't think HMV offered a lossless FLAC version from their online store.

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    There is still a market for CDs, Vinyl records, and DVDs/Blu Rays, but shopping online for them is easier and usually cheaper.

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    Bit of a marketplace disconnect though now, or a lot of it.

    So many retailers selling fancy Uber HD sets (can't even remember all the kinds being sold right at the moment) and all offering capability that is not met by any streaming provider. So that hard copy hd formats are still the best option to fulfill those screens full capability. But where do you buy those now in person? Best buy typically has a garbage selection and very disorganized layout. Virtually impossible trying to find a title you want in there most times. Walmart sells a limited selection of stock.

    Seems odd that one product line, monitors, are being sold like crazy requiring the highest definition hard copy formats available and yet those are decreasingly available. Whats the point of buying 4K TV or any of the other way hitech monitors with no content that even comes close to their capability?

    ps It chronically amazes me that Best Buy survives in the marketplace. From onset the worst customer experience I've ever seen and stores that just never seem welcoming either in ambience or support. Plus always 80 degrees in those store in the winter. WTF with that? I'm wearing a winter coat because its winter. Don't make it so hot in the store that customers want to leave within 2 minutes.
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    I read a couple of years ago that HMV stopped carrying a lot of Disney movie titles because Disney price-locks their titles high they couldn't make money off of them. Other big stores (Wal Mart, etc still sell them). If you can't even make a profit selling what people still buy, your business model isn't going to last.

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    ^^ The only plus I can find with Best Buy is that they're not on you like a swarm of locusts as soon as you set foot in the place. That was a killer stroke for me when Future Shop was around.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Bit of a marketplace disconnect though now, or a lot of it.

    So many retailers selling fancy Uber HD sets (can't even remember all the kinds being sold right at the moment) and all offering capability that is not met by any streaming provider. So that hard copy hd formats are still the best option to fulfill those screens full capability. But where do you buy those now in person? Best buy typically has a garbage selection and very disorganized layout. Virtually impossible trying to find a title you want in there most times. Walmart sells a limited selection of stock.

    Seems odd that one product line, monitors, are being sold like crazy requiring the highest definition hard copy formats available and yet those are decreasingly available. Whats the point of buying 4K TV or any of the other way hitech monitors with no content that even comes close to their capability?

    ps It chronically amazes me that Best Buy survives in the marketplace. From onset the worst customer experience I've ever seen and stores that just never seem welcoming either in ambience or support. Plus always 80 degrees in those store in the winter. WTF with that? I'm wearing a winter coat because its winter. Don't make it so hot in the store that customers want to leave within 2 minutes.
    Streaming services are starting to provide ultra-HD. Netflix and Amazon both already offer 4K, for example.

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    And yet another empty Commercial space in Bonnie Doon

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    So many retailers selling fancy Uber HD sets
    It's a transition period - the big electronics manufacturers only finally agreed on 4K tech standards last year.

    Content providers are slow at releasing and adopting 4K content because people still have regular flat screens and are happy with HD content. And the leap from HD to 4K isn't as large as it was for standard definition to high definition.

    In fact, I think the thing that will "sell" the new 4K UHD TVs in a few years is their expanded color spectrum, not their resolution (present HD is clear enough).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    But where do you buy those now in person? Best buy typically has a garbage selection and very disorganized layout. Virtually impossible trying to find a title you want in there most times. Walmart sells a limited selection of stock.
    You don't. You order it from Amazon.ca and save a ton of money. If you have Prime, you'll even get it on the day of release. If you preorder, you'll get the cheapest price between when you order and when it's released. I can't imagine walking into a store to buy a movie, or a video game. Everything comes from Amazon.ca to my house (at least the stuff I pay for).
    They're going to park their car over there. You're going to park your car over here. Get it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Bit of a marketplace disconnect though now, or a lot of it.

    So many retailers selling fancy Uber HD sets (can't even remember all the kinds being sold right at the moment) and all offering capability that is not met by any streaming provider. So that hard copy hd formats are still the best option to fulfill those screens full capability. But where do you buy those now in person? Best buy typically has a garbage selection and very disorganized layout. Virtually impossible trying to find a title you want in there most times. Walmart sells a limited selection of stock.

    Seems odd that one product line, monitors, are being sold like crazy requiring the highest definition hard copy formats available and yet those are decreasingly available. Whats the point of buying 4K TV or any of the other way hitech monitors with no content that even comes close to their capability?

    ps It chronically amazes me that Best Buy survives in the marketplace. From onset the worst customer experience I've ever seen and stores that just never seem welcoming either in ambience or support. Plus always 80 degrees in those store in the winter. WTF with that? I'm wearing a winter coat because its winter. Don't make it so hot in the store that customers want to leave within 2 minutes.
    I'm pretty sure Best Buy's days are numbered. At the very least with the massive stores. I could still see them maybe selling stuff like TVs at a smaller scale but the other stuff you can get elsewhere and cheaper.

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    One would think that with the massive growth of online shopping that Amazon would be a more profitable company. It blows my mind that they have kept such a fast pace of growth for all these years, despite consistently posting losses.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Hollywood View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Bit of a marketplace disconnect though now, or a lot of it.

    So many retailers selling fancy Uber HD sets (can't even remember all the kinds being sold right at the moment) and all offering capability that is not met by any streaming provider. So that hard copy hd formats are still the best option to fulfill those screens full capability. But where do you buy those now in person? Best buy typically has a garbage selection and very disorganized layout. Virtually impossible trying to find a title you want in there most times. Walmart sells a limited selection of stock.

    Seems odd that one product line, monitors, are being sold like crazy requiring the highest definition hard copy formats available and yet those are decreasingly available. Whats the point of buying 4K TV or any of the other way hitech monitors with no content that even comes close to their capability?

    ps It chronically amazes me that Best Buy survives in the marketplace. From onset the worst customer experience I've ever seen and stores that just never seem welcoming either in ambience or support. Plus always 80 degrees in those store in the winter. WTF with that? I'm wearing a winter coat because its winter. Don't make it so hot in the store that customers want to leave within 2 minutes.
    I'm pretty sure Best Buy's days are numbered. At the very least with the massive stores. I could still see them maybe selling stuff like TVs at a smaller scale but the other stuff you can get elsewhere and cheaper.
    One thing Best Buy has done well though, is online shopping. I often find items are cheaper on best buy than amazon.ca. Amazon is a bit of a rip off, they advertise these massive discounts, but the price is still higher than other stores are selling for online. They were fined recently for this practice. And Amazon even has the gall to charge some suckers for Prime (its never wise to lock yourself into mostly using one provider for a fee), which is still more expensive than many online sites.
    Last edited by moahunter; 29-01-2017 at 10:24 AM.

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    ^ Except that all of the good online deals I have seen at Best Buy charge extra for shipping and don't provide an option for in-store pickup.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    So many retailers selling fancy Uber HD sets (can't even remember all the kinds being sold right at the moment) and all offering capability that is not met by any streaming provider.
    Actually, Netflix has content available in 4K Dolby Vision/HDR. That's about as far up the standards chain as you can get right now.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    One would think that with the massive growth of online shopping that Amazon would be a more profitable company. It blows my mind that they have kept such a fast pace of growth for all these years, despite consistently posting losses.
    They were making tons of profit last year, which slipped in the 3rd quarter, but it was still a profit (their 6th in a row). I don't think the 4thQ has been announced.

    And for those looking for deals on Amazon, go to camelcamelcamel.com. You can track prices of things on Amazon there, as well as set alerts based on price.
    They're going to park their car over there. You're going to park your car over here. Get it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    So many retailers selling fancy Uber HD sets (can't even remember all the kinds being sold right at the moment) and all offering capability that is not met by any streaming provider.
    Actually, Netflix has content available in 4K Dolby Vision/HDR. That's about as far up the standards chain as you can get right now.
    Yeah, I've been streaming in 4k for a while now with Netflix. Get with the times!

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    I'm sorry to see HMV go, but I can't say I'm surprised. As others have mentioned, it's been coming for a while. The last few CDs I've gotten were purchased on line, because HMV didn't have them on the shelf.
    Hopefully places like Revolver are able to hold on a little longer, but I imagine they'll disappear too.
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    Best Buy in the West end just renovated and got rid of ALL their Music CD's and Movie section.

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    The local iconic independent record shops are still around, but who knows for how long:
    Freecloud on 101 St south of Kingsway
    Listen on 124 St
    Sound Connection on Whyte
    Blackbyrd on Whyte
    The Gramophone on 104 St south of Whyte Ave
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turtle View Post
    Best Buy in the West end just renovated and got rid of ALL their Music CD's and Movie section.
    Really? That place is huge. Haven't been there in awhile so what exactly did they fill the store with if all that stuff is gone?

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    More overpriced Apple products for the masses.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitlope View Post
    More overpriced Apple products for the masses.
    Excellent! I like my Apple products and will buy more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moodib View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    So many retailers selling fancy Uber HD sets (can't even remember all the kinds being sold right at the moment) and all offering capability that is not met by any streaming provider.
    Actually, Netflix has content available in 4K Dolby Vision/HDR. That's about as far up the standards chain as you can get right now.
    Yeah, I've been streaming in 4k for a while now with Netflix. Get with the times!
    I'm technologically illiterate. I Don't even have Netflix. Not that I would watch anything on it if I did have it. I'm no big fan of TV in general. No need for Netflix as my urge to binge watch any program is non existent. I feel like I'd be setting myself up to just waste time. I do have an HDTV for watching hockey, occasional movie, travel programs, Documentaries. Mostly only like educational programs. Or really well done productions.

    Does Netflix have BBC? I would watch that Channel. I like Brit productions much more than anything in NA.

    Additionally I'm one of those types that prefers hard copies of things I like. Probably a habit started with Record collection.
    Last edited by Replacement; 30-01-2017 at 09:45 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Kitlope View Post
    More overpriced Apple products for the masses.
    Excellent! I like my Apple products and will buy more.
    Sorry KC, just had to be said. Actually, it didn't

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Moodib View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    So many retailers selling fancy Uber HD sets (can't even remember all the kinds being sold right at the moment) and all offering capability that is not met by any streaming provider.
    Actually, Netflix has content available in 4K Dolby Vision/HDR. That's about as far up the standards chain as you can get right now.
    Yeah, I've been streaming in 4k for a while now with Netflix. Get with the times!
    I'm technologically illiterate. I Don't even have Netflix. Not that I would watch anything on it if I did have it. I'm no big fan of TV in general. No need for Netflix as my urge to binge watch any program is non existent. I feel like I'd be setting myself up to just waste time. I do have an HDTV for watching hockey, occasional movie, travel programs, Documentaries. Mostly only like educational programs. Or really well done productions.

    Does Netflix have BBC? I would watch that Channel. I like Brit productions much more than anything in NA.

    Additionally I'm one of those types that prefers hard copies of things I like. Probably a habit started with Record collection.
    I'm the same way. Give me some news, some sports and very little of today's general television. Where I may be different is pc gaming. And lots of music. I'm still one of the few that love to sit back and listen to a good album than some bullsh1t "reality" TV program. Especially when on vinyl. It sounds better. it really does

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    I like the convenience of streaming, but I dislike how content gets quietly removed. There are a few movies and shows I had saved in my Netflix queue that vanished when I tried to watch them the next month, so I downloaded it or bought it cheap on DVD.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Moodib View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    So many retailers selling fancy Uber HD sets (can't even remember all the kinds being sold right at the moment) and all offering capability that is not met by any streaming provider.
    Actually, Netflix has content available in 4K Dolby Vision/HDR. That's about as far up the standards chain as you can get right now.
    Yeah, I've been streaming in 4k for a while now with Netflix. Get with the times!
    I'm technologically illiterate. I Don't even have Netflix. Not that I would watch anything on it if I did have it. I'm no big fan of TV in general. No need for Netflix as my urge to binge watch any program is non existent. I feel like I'd be setting myself up to just waste time. I do have an HDTV for watching hockey, occasional movie, travel programs, Documentaries. Mostly only like educational programs. Or really well done productions.

    Does Netflix have BBC? I would watch that Channel. I like Brit productions much more than anything in NA.

    Additionally I'm one of those types that prefers hard copies of things I like. Probably a habit started with Record collection.
    Netflix does have some BBC shows. I think I saw the newer Musketeers on there, which is a BBC original program. I imagine there would be others since they would have content rights agreements with BBC as a whole. I've noticed they have a lot of Attenborough docs too from BBC. I'm pretty sure a few friends have said the brit versions of Rake, etc are on there too.

    Rogers/Telus have begun to distribute 4k set boxes. I think the NHL is broadcasting select games in 4k throughout the year - very select. Same with NBA and NFL. I imagine Edmonton might be one of the first markets to gain 4k too given the hype of the backbone of Rogers Place. I've heard a few people in the production area there say that it is set to go - I think they are just waiting on the pipe off site to catch up. Netflix is definitely ahead of the curve relative to cable/DSL/etc companies though. I think they recognized that Netflix was taking off with that tech and decided they should get in the mix. Netflix is kind of forcing traditional providers to move forward in many ways. Technological competition is good - phones keep leaping forward, whereas home PC's have mostly stagnated as Intel hasn't had any competition for years.

    On the other hand, this advancement is shutting down HMV and forcing others to change their models of distribution, like Best Buy removing physical products from their shelves. Trickle down economics!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitlope View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Moodib View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    So many retailers selling fancy Uber HD sets (can't even remember all the kinds being sold right at the moment) and all offering capability that is not met by any streaming provider.
    Actually, Netflix has content available in 4K Dolby Vision/HDR. That's about as far up the standards chain as you can get right now.
    Yeah, I've been streaming in 4k for a while now with Netflix. Get with the times!
    I'm technologically illiterate. I Don't even have Netflix. Not that I would watch anything on it if I did have it. I'm no big fan of TV in general. No need for Netflix as my urge to binge watch any program is non existent. I feel like I'd be setting myself up to just waste time. I do have an HDTV for watching hockey, occasional movie, travel programs, Documentaries. Mostly only like educational programs. Or really well done productions.

    Does Netflix have BBC? I would watch that Channel. I like Brit productions much more than anything in NA.

    Additionally I'm one of those types that prefers hard copies of things I like. Probably a habit started with Record collection.
    I'm the same way. Give me some news, some sports and very little of today's general television. Where I may be different is pc gaming. And lots of music. I'm still one of the few that love to sit back and listen to a good album than some bullsh1t "reality" TV program. Especially when on vinyl. It sounds better. it really does
    I'm wondering if, similar to the music industry is that content just isn't that good anymore and thus people less willing to shell out for hard copies of DVD's Blurays, CD's.

    Add to this that theres so many networks now, so many series that its no longer a matter of watching Sopranos, The Wire, or Six Feet Under and having that be the watercooler talk that is common enough that you feel like watching the shows to be up on them. Now with thousands of series you basically wouldn't see 3 people in a room at work or play that have followed the same series you are watching. I think only AHS even comes close to that these days. We recently had Shomi (before it got canned) and I don't know that I started watching even a dozen of those series beyond the first episode or two. in most cases I had literally no interest in following the series. Even ones that are regularly recommended. Again with the previously mentioned those series hooked from the outset.

    Series particularly are the crack of TV viewing. Be able to avoid those and you stop wasting your time watching TV in general.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moodib View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Moodib View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    So many retailers selling fancy Uber HD sets (can't even remember all the kinds being sold right at the moment) and all offering capability that is not met by any streaming provider.
    Actually, Netflix has content available in 4K Dolby Vision/HDR. That's about as far up the standards chain as you can get right now.
    Yeah, I've been streaming in 4k for a while now with Netflix. Get with the times!
    I'm technologically illiterate. I Don't even have Netflix. Not that I would watch anything on it if I did have it. I'm no big fan of TV in general. No need for Netflix as my urge to binge watch any program is non existent. I feel like I'd be setting myself up to just waste time. I do have an HDTV for watching hockey, occasional movie, travel programs, Documentaries. Mostly only like educational programs. Or really well done productions.

    Does Netflix have BBC? I would watch that Channel. I like Brit productions much more than anything in NA.

    Additionally I'm one of those types that prefers hard copies of things I like. Probably a habit started with Record collection.
    Netflix does have some BBC shows. I think I saw the newer Musketeers on there, which is a BBC original program. I imagine there would be others since they would have content rights agreements with BBC as a whole. I've noticed they have a lot of Attenborough docs too from BBC. I'm pretty sure a few friends have said the brit versions of Rake, etc are on there too.

    Rogers/Telus have begun to distribute 4k set boxes. I think the NHL is broadcasting select games in 4k throughout the year - very select. Same with NBA and NFL. I imagine Edmonton might be one of the first markets to gain 4k too given the hype of the backbone of Rogers Place. I've heard a few people in the production area there say that it is set to go - I think they are just waiting on the pipe off site to catch up. Netflix is definitely ahead of the curve relative to cable/DSL/etc companies though. I think they recognized that Netflix was taking off with that tech and decided they should get in the mix. Netflix is kind of forcing traditional providers to move forward in many ways. Technological competition is good - phones keep leaping forward, whereas home PC's have mostly stagnated as Intel hasn't had any competition for years.

    On the other hand, this advancement is shutting down HMV and forcing others to change their models of distribution, like Best Buy removing physical products from their shelves. Trickle down economics!
    The idea of isolated programs or movies holds limited interest. Ever since the advent of cable consumers have wanted the actual stations whether it be Brit ITV, BBC etc. Give me those networks, not a few programs. Hell between CBC and PBS I get that much. Its unfortunate that more than 50years into the Cable industry, and several decades after satellite and cable infrastructure allowed world wide viewing that theres never been any serious headway on word viewing due to copyrights. Consumers the world over limited due to copyrights instead of deals being made and people being able to view. In an increasingly mobile world where people migrate one would have thought that would be ideal.

    In reality Cable is dying because it never ever delivered on what it should ideally be. The viewer is not given the optimal product thus forever looking for ways to circumvent.
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    So you feel the shows should only be owned by one company around the world, and that company is in charge of all aspects of the distribution of that show, including cable, satellite, streaming and download? Hahahahaha
    They're going to park their car over there. You're going to park your car over here. Get it?

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    4K streaming is nothing when compared to the far less onerous compression done on physical disks.

    Until higher network speeds are available we won't see 4k streaming coming anywhere close to the quality of physical disks. Lots of pixels doesn't mean lots of pixels displaying different things or that those pixels are displaying anything of quality...

    I am pumped for the deals that will be had from HMV clearing house. Sucks though that another brick and mortar dies... Such is..

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    I don't know that the physical media industry falls all the way to zero, but if not, it is fantastic news for the independents, actually.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gord Lacey View Post
    So you feel the shows should only be owned by one company around the world, and that company is in charge of all aspects of the distribution of that show, including cable, satellite, streaming and download? Hahahahaha
    I feel like productions, channels exist to be seen, worldwide, with reasonable distribution deals worked out to make that possible. Not sure what is so ridiculous about that or why people feel the status quo of antiquated regional copyrights is advantageous.

    One has to look at this from the perspective of maximum distribution. Why would any channel in the world not want to effect maximum global distribution? As I mentioned the advent of telecommunications Satellites and a connected cable world made possible the universal distribution of channels. Indeed this was promised when Cable started which some of us are old enough to remember. That the cable universe and channels offered would expand and expand. So we have the technology but we have an industry mired in copyright dilemma that prevents itself from achieving maximum distribution and access. Which is leading to it dying and leading to leech platforms like Netflix to proliferate.

    This was a huge failure on the part of broadcasters, the cable industry and the cable/satellite suppliers will die out because of it.

    Now as far as your question ask yourself why broadcasters can have proprietary rights for Olympics, World Cup, etc, and with distribution deals worked out so that the whole world can watch and yet for Networks and programming its the usual logjam of deals not being worked out.

    People might think that obtaining Netflix is "paying for programming" but as soon as the Cable/Satellite industry dies network distribution essentially dies and with it channels falling like dominoes which will obviously impact content. Netflix itself will offer precious little new content and without a lot of broadcast competitors won't have to. Netflix isn't allowing advertising which is how networks make money so that they can in turn purchase or make productions. Do people seriously think that modicum of money paid out to Netflix, with no advertising is going to pay for the kind of productions they currently show and sustain that?
    This is the best article I've seen on the topic and the comments section is interesting reading as well.

    https://www.theguardian.com/media-ne...on-ad-revenues

    Now lets relate this to another thread on how much people detest commercials (and thus like Netflix) the problem being is that eventually the Netflix productions become commercial laden content. its the only way they can survive. Look for product placement everywhere, product as production, etc. That's the future of viewing if we all choose Netflix. Every program looks like Pluto Nash.
    Last edited by Replacement; 02-02-2017 at 09:10 AM.
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    Because that's not how deals are done with shows. You can't have one entity hold all the worldwide rights to a show so it can be broadcast and streamed online at the same time. It doesn't happen because it's not feasible. When you sell the rights to a show in a territory, that rights holder will likely want all the rights to the show in that area (broadcast and streaming). You simply can't have one company controlling all rights to a show in the world because they would have to have their own cable/satellite channel in EVERY market in order to broadcast it, as well as a streaming platform to stream the material at the same time. This is why we have different rights assigned to different companies in different markets, and it's why there are different regions for DVDs and Blu-rays.

    Also, Netflix acts like another network when it comes to these shows. They don't own everything that they "broadcast," just like the networks don't own everything that they broadcast, either. An example would be "Orange is the New Black," which is owned by Lionsgate, and "airs" on Netflix. You'll also have shows that belong to the same family, such as "Agents of SHIELD" being owned by Marvel/Disney, airing on ABC, which is also owned by Disney. This also explains why a show like "Community" appeared on Yahoo for the last season; it's owned by Sony, aired on NBC, but when NBC canceled it Sony shopped it around and Yahoo picked it up. NBC didn't own the show.

    You fail to understand how the industry works.
    Last edited by Gord Lacey; 02-02-2017 at 12:51 PM. Reason: spelling correction
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gord Lacey View Post
    Because that's not how deals are done with shows. You can't have one entity hold all the worldwide rights to a show so it can be broadcast and streamed online at the same time. It doesn't happen because it's not feasible. When you sell the rights to a show in a territory, that rights holder will likely want all the rights to the show in that area (broadcast and streaming). You simply can't have one company controlling all rights to a show in the world because they would have to have their own cable/satellite channel in EVERY market in order to broadcast it, as well as a streaming platform to stream the material at the same time. This is why we have different rights assigned to different companies in different markets, and it's why there are different regions for DVDs and Blu-rays.

    Also, Netflix acts like another network when it comes to these shows. They don't own everything that they "broadcast," just like the networks don't own everything that they broadcast, either. An example would be "Orange is the New Black," which is owned by Lionsgate, and "airs" on Netflix. You'll also have shows that belong to the same family, such as "Agents of SHIELD" being owned by Marvel/Disney, airing on ABC, which is also owned by Disney. This also explains why a show like "Community" appeared on Yahoo for the last season; it's owned by Sony, aired on NBC, but when NBC canceled it Sony shopped it around and Yahoo picked it up. NBC didn't own the show.

    You fail to understand how the industry works.
    I fail to agree with how the industry currently works. Or even that it "works".

    The advent of Netflix filling a loophole, was a niche unnecessarily left open. Which will have massive ramifications, mostly bad, to the industry in time.

    Further, regardless of medium, product, etc, rightsholding is negotiation. Period. Its not implicit that copyrights need be Country specific, Continent specific, etc. That copyrighting in such specific regional terms was chosen as a primary mode was shortsighted thinking on the part of content producers, networks, the entire industry. Who are all now facing the consequence as entities like Netflix leech the product giving a worldwide audience a poorer version of what worldwide consumers should have been delivered in the first place. Albeit even Netflix is hamstrung by regionally specific content and endless debate about which region gets better content..

    I'll bring NHL content into this as an example. The NHL, while maximizing short term network gain by doling out rights holding to several parties may make more coin initially. But having a cut product full of restricted rightsholdings even within countries in the longrun benefits no one, and certainly doesn't benefit the consumer, or the exposure of the product. Its not even debatable that product exposure, and increasing that, is a benefit to building and expanding a product, and yet the NHL arranges broadcast deals on short term gains and so that fans have several blacked out tiers of channels that they buy throughout the nation. If that's your version of "working" we profoundly disagree, which is fine.

    Although the ironic benefit is that I waste less time watching hockey due to less games being available for viewing due to the divided NHL contractual rights in Canada. In a humorous sense that works for me but its an inane way to go about getting your maximum content broadcast.

    Finally, the views I'm expressing on this topic are not isolated to me. The concerns I'm addressing have been soberly looked at by the Cable, broadcasting, production industry. That said this, as many things is a debate. There are pundits out there that share your view that nothing is broken. Albeit as per the topic HMV wouldn't share that view. Nor would blockbuster or any of the other boxstore providers.
    Last edited by Replacement; 02-02-2017 at 01:50 PM.
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    The rights to the shows don't have to be country specific, but they have to make sense. If you're Global, you COULD obtain the worldwide rights to a show, but why on Earth would you when you only operate in Canada? Why would Global want to obtain rights to air the show in England, Poland, or Russia? THEY WOULDN'T, which is why they wouldn't obtain the rights, and the rights holder would have the opportunity to approach partners in those markets and sell them the rights to broadcast, or stream, the show there.

    Also, you seen to be confusing copyright (ownership of the material), with "rights" (such as the right to broadcast the material, or stream it). Those are two very different things. Global has the RIGHTS to broadcast "Rookie Blue" in Canada, while ABC has the RIGHTS to broadcast "Rookie Blue" in the US, but the COPYRIGHT for the show is owned by eOne Entertainment, which can turn around and license the RIGHT to broadcast the show to someone else in Europe. (And yes, "Rookie Blue" is over now).
    Last edited by Gord Lacey; 02-02-2017 at 01:54 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gord Lacey View Post
    You
    Do
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    The rights to the shows don't have to be country specific, but they have to make sense. If you're Global, you COULD obtain the worldwide rights to a show, but why on Earth would you when you only operate in Canada? Why would Global want to obtain rights to air the show in England, Poland, or Russia? THEY WOULDN'T, which is why they wouldn't obtain the rights, and the rights holder would have the opportunity to approach partners in those markets and sell them the rights to broadcast, or stream, the show there.
    Last I checked virtually any business in almost any industry aspires to be global and maximize its market worldwide.

    For shortsighted reasons that has not occurred in the broadcast industry. Despite that being imminently possible.

    As a result illegal streaming, file sharing platforms, leeches like Netflix have all filled that global void because they can. With ironically epidemic copyright infringements occurring for decades. Because that global market was left wide open for cheap streaming.

    How has that worked out for the industry as a whole? Again as per context of this thread.

    What used to get purchased, Netflix is now providing essentially for free on demand. Just the latest example of race to zero product cost. What kind of industry would prefer that mode of making far less for its product?
    Last edited by Replacement; 02-02-2017 at 02:04 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Last I checked virtually any business in almost any industry aspires to be global and maximize its market worldwide.
    Which is what the RIGHTS HOLDERS are doing! You fail to understand that the network DOES NOT own the show, unless the network and the production company are owned by a bigger company (NBC/Universal, ABC/Disney, The CW/Warner Bros), and even then it's the content producer that owns the show, not the network that airs it. Content producers sign distribution agreements with networks and streaming providers. What you keep failing to understand in your comments is the relationship between the content producer, and the content distributor.

    Netflix is not a leech. They sign distribution deals for the content they stream. You'll see less licensed material on Netflix, and more Netflix Originals, as that's what's driving the Netflix subscriptions.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gord Lacey View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Last I checked virtually any business in almost any industry aspires to be global and maximize its market worldwide.
    Which is what the RIGHTS HOLDERS are doing! You fail to understand that the network DOES NOT own the show, unless the network and the production company are owned by a bigger company (NBC/Universal, ABC/Disney, The CW/Warner Bros), and even then it's the content producer that owns the show, not the network that airs it. Content producers sign distribution agreements with networks and streaming providers. What you keep failing to understand in your comments is the relationship between the content producer, and the content distributor.

    Netflix is not a leech. They sign distribution deals for the content they stream. You'll see less licensed material on Netflix, and more Netflix Originals, as that's what's driving the Netflix subscriptions.
    I never once stated that Networks own the shows.

    I was postulating that the industry ought to have moved in different directions than what has occurred. I made that clear enough.

    Netflix is leeching, they pay a modicum for the same programming that Networks pay a lot more for. Its debatable to suggest Netflix originals is whats driving Netflix. Anybody I know that signs up mostly just binge watches whatever content they have on there. While Netflix is making a lot of productions not a lot of them are considered memorable or must see. Netflix is in the position that they have to be making their own original content to defend their very existence. Can you imagine the recoil from hollywood and the whole industry if Netflix was producing no content but simple leeching others exclusively.

    This link spells out that its not necessarily original programming driving Netflix subscriptions.

    https://www.emarketer.com/Article/Or...ptions/1013337



    But without the leeching Netflix couldn't come close to paying its own productions which lose money.
    Last edited by Replacement; 02-02-2017 at 05:15 PM.
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    Netflix spends more money on original content than any of it's "competitor" broadcast networks.

    http://www.cnbc.com/2016/10/17/netfl...-spenders.html

    Even with the projected $6 billion in spending, Netflix won't beat the current category leader. ESPN was projected by Boston Consulting Group and SNL Kagan to spend $7.3 billion on content in 2016, with increased prices mostly due to sports league rights. Sports, widely considered by many to be one of the live TV viewing draws, is a much less risky investment due to its existing and reliable audience.

    NBC came in third place with $4.3 billion in spending, and CBS was in fourth with an estimated $4 billion content budget. Those too include sports rights, which means Netflix is leading by far in terms of spending on episodic and film programming.
    The next big subscription-on-demand content spender was Amazon, which came in fifth. It was estimated to spend $3.2 billion by the end of 2016 on content. Amazon previously said in July it plans to double its spending on video content and triple its spending on originals during the latter half of 2017.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    I never once stated that Networks own the shows.

    I was postulating that the industry ought to have moved in different directions than what has occurred. I made that clear enough.

    Netflix is leeching, they pay a modicum for the same programming that Networks pay a lot more for. Its debatable to suggest Netflix originals is whats driving Netflix. Anybody I know that signs up mostly just binge watches whatever content they have on there. While Netflix is making a lot of productions not a lot of them are considered memorable or must see. Netflix is in the position that they have to be making their own original content to defend their very existence. Can you imagine the recoil from hollywood and the whole industry if Netflix was producing no content but simple leeching others exclusively.

    This link spells out that its not necessarily original programming driving Netflix subscriptions.

    https://www.emarketer.com/Article/Or...ptions/1013337



    But without the leeching Netflix couldn't come close to paying its own productions which lose money.
    No, what you made clear is that you don't know what you're talking about, and you keep backing that up with more points proving you don't know what you're talking about.

    Replacement, you're a smart guy, we both know that, so you should know when to stop. It's clear you don't understand how TV shows get from the production side, to networks, to aftermarket. I've spent the last 15 years in this space, dealing with large studios, small studios, producers of TV shows, content owners, and people that license the content. You simply don't understand that it's impossible for a rights holder to take that content into every market across the world. That would require the resources which no company has; they would have to have a production company, networks in every market to air the show, along with their own streaming platform. No company has that.

    And, once again, Netflix is NOT a leech. I'm not sure how you fail to understand that all the content that Netflix streams is content that the RIGHTS HOLDER has licensed to them. The owners are paid money, and choose to sign a deal with Netflix in order to get their content onto the streaming service. No one is forcing them to license the material to Netflix. Also, if you're going to quote articles about Netflix, don't grab some random website with a name like "emarketer," go to Variety, or one of the many industry publications that actually cover this stuff for a living.

    http://variety.com/2016/digital/news...fo-1201865902/
    http://variety.com/2016/digital/news...ed-1201933645/

    As I said before, Netflix is moving more towards original programming, and away from licensed stuff. This is stuff that I've read in articles, and been told by Senior Vice Presidents at large studios. I'm not talking out of my *** here.

    Anyway, feel free to have the last word here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gord Lacey View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    I never once stated that Networks own the shows.

    I was postulating that the industry ought to have moved in different directions than what has occurred. I made that clear enough.

    Netflix is leeching, they pay a modicum for the same programming that Networks pay a lot more for. Its debatable to suggest Netflix originals is whats driving Netflix. Anybody I know that signs up mostly just binge watches whatever content they have on there. While Netflix is making a lot of productions not a lot of them are considered memorable or must see. Netflix is in the position that they have to be making their own original content to defend their very existence. Can you imagine the recoil from hollywood and the whole industry if Netflix was producing no content but simple leeching others exclusively.

    This link spells out that its not necessarily original programming driving Netflix subscriptions.

    https://www.emarketer.com/Article/Or...ptions/1013337



    But without the leeching Netflix couldn't come close to paying its own productions which lose money.
    No, what you made clear is that you don't know what you're talking about, and you keep backing that up with more points proving you don't know what you're talking about.

    Replacement, you're a smart guy, we both know that, so you should know when to stop. It's clear you don't understand how TV shows get from the production side, to networks, to aftermarket. I've spent the last 15 years in this space, dealing with large studios, small studios, producers of TV shows, content owners, and people that license the content. You simply don't understand that it's impossible for a rights holder to take that content into every market across the world. That would require the resources which no company has; they would have to have a production company, networks in every market to air the show, along with their own streaming platform. No company has that.

    And, once again, Netflix is NOT a leech. I'm not sure how you fail to understand that all the content that Netflix streams is content that the RIGHTS HOLDER has licensed to them. The owners are paid money, and choose to sign a deal with Netflix in order to get their content onto the streaming service. No one is forcing them to license the material to Netflix. Also, if you're going to quote articles about Netflix, don't grab some random website with a name like "emarketer," go to Variety, or one of the many industry publications that actually cover this stuff for a living.

    http://variety.com/2016/digital/news...fo-1201865902/
    http://variety.com/2016/digital/news...ed-1201933645/

    As I said before, Netflix is moving more towards original programming, and away from licensed stuff. This is stuff that I've read in articles, and been told by Senior Vice Presidents at large studios. I'm not talking out of my *** here.

    Anyway, feel free to have the last word here.
    Not at all, hey, let me know if want what connection/capacity you have in the industry (in PM if you want to) as I hadn't known that at all so wasn't meaning to upset you in anyway it was just a discussion and I thought I had discussed this respectfully.

    The comments on Netflix leeching content are not my own in isolation either. Its pretty standard commentary and a lot of pundits have posited that. Just saying.


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