Page 2 of 7 FirstFirst 123456 ... LastLast
Results 101 to 200 of 602

Thread: Premier Notley's Second Year

  1. #101

    Default

    ^I never said Alberta had had a referendum or a separatist government, I said there are people in Alberta who holler about separating but its empty rhetoric.
    You are also wrong about Scotland and Northern Ireland. There would be all kinds of hurdles for them to get out of the U K and stay part of the EU. The unelected officials in the EU have even told Scotland that they cannot just ask and be taking back in. That is definitely not on the EU agenda. Scotland cannot just leave the EU without another referendum. Tell me, if they had another Scottish referendum and they voted to stay with the U. K. Sturgeon would be screwed. Even if they did vote to leave the U.K. the E U is not just going to tell them to walk right in and draw up a chair at the table.
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

  2. #102
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Edmonton (Norwood)
    Posts
    4,386

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by metro View Post
    ...
    There is, however, an unhealthy income envy developing and it has the potential to unleash an even more punitive income tax grab on the targeted population. This year it went from 10 to 15%. Next year possibly 17 or 20% When is enough, enough? What is the final number because at some point people will cry uncle and will not be willing to work the extra hours, take investment risks, etc because the extra effort and sacrifice will not produce enough of a gain to be worthwhile.
    Is that a bad thing? The more that people value their time over money, the less they will be willing to accommodate employers who chronically understaff. Those businesses will be forced to hire more employees so more people will have jobs. Technological advancement isn't benefiting society nearly as much as it should when labour-saving innovations result in a few getting rich and a bunch becoming unemployed rather than less work for everyone.

    Quote Originally Posted by metro View Post
    The threshold income number for higher taxes is debatable but in the end whatever it is, it will negatively affect someone. Also the lack of disposable income being spent will cause broader economic hardship as has been pointed out by other posters.
    The less money you make, the greater fraction you spend. Spreading the wealth is good for the economy, not bad.

    Quote Originally Posted by metro View Post
    We need to look at getting more value for our tax dollars. Just giving more to the government will not solve our problem.
    No arguments there, but that is something that needs to happen in parallel. If Alberta magically found a way to deliver the same services for $20 billion less, I would suggest we cut all income tax rates equally and keep the carbon tax. Instead of 10 to 15%, it could be 8 to 13 %

  3. #103

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    ^I get the impression you think Scotland and Northern Ireland just have to ask and they will be severed from the United Kingdom. It is nott that simply. This alliance goes back a very long time and is more or less tied up in so many ways it would take years to undo. Of course Scotland is going to flap it gums because it's got a first minister (Sturgeon) who is chomping at the bit for independence. Unfortunately (for her) when they had a referendum on leaving the United Kingdom the Scot's voted to stay in. Like the Trump win, a win is a win is a win. It similar to the Quebec separatists, they are not in the majority but they sure make a lot of noise. Most Quebecor's know that leaving Canada would be a bad move but the separatists (like Sturgeon) want to leave but keep the good parts of the union. It's the same as the people who holler now and again that Alberta should separate. Empty rhetoric.
    I don't have the impression that either Scotland or Northern Ireland just have to ask to be severed. Scotland already held a referendum and their currently pro independence or separatist government is chomping at the bit to hold a second one if they can get "winning conditions" and the Brexit is exactly the gift of that to them. Northern Ireland could just follow in Scotland's path. I doubt the English will fight that much to keep either of them. The anti immigrant movement that drove Brexit is mainly an English thing and people in Scotland and Northern Ireland are wondering if they have gone mad, just like many others around the world.

    Alberta has never had a referendum or a separatist government. Our differences with other parts of Canada are more economic than cultural or linguistic. Canada made a great effort after the first referendum to accommodate Quebec. With Brexit, so soon after the initial referendum England seems to be going out of its way to encourage Scotland to try again.
    Apparently, back in the 1970s Scotland voted AGAINST JOINING and now they voted FOR STAYING.
    So waiting for "winning conditions" is right on the mark.

  4. #104
    C2E Stole my Heart!!!!
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Ozerna, North Edmonton
    Posts
    8,961

    Default

    On this day we have a Mainstreet poll. Only one in four Albertans think the NDP are doing a good or excellent job handling the economy.

    Almost half think the NDP's handling is very poor. Not just poor. Very poor.


    More than half in Calgary think the NDP's handling of the economy is poor or very poor. Two out of three living outside the big cities make the same judgment.

    Even in Edmonton, opinion is split down the middle.
    http://www.edmontonsun.com/2017/03/1...ion-sewer-rats

  5. #105

    Default

    In the poll the #1 priority from those polled is to cut taxes, despite still having the lowest taxes in the country. I'm absolutely positive that the people that complain the most are the ones that have the least knowledge of how anything is anywhere else, or how anything works in general.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  6. #106
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    edmonton
    Posts
    4,288

    Default

    ^ Sun readers.
    Nisi Dominus Frustra

  7. #107

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    In the poll the #1 priority from those polled is to cut taxes, despite still having the lowest taxes in the country. I'm absolutely positive that the people that complain the most are the ones that have the least knowledge of how anything is anywhere else, or how anything works in general.
    Lower tax = more money for consumption / investment = less money for government to waste on civil servant salaries = more GDP growth = more investment. Its not rocket science, when Paul Martin lowered Canada's individual and corporate tax rate Canada's government revenues went up, not down, because the economy grew much faster because it was a vote of confidence in Canadian business / individuals. Its sad we are going in the opposite direction, most Albertan's realize its a huge mistake, especially in a time of low oil prices where business and consumer confidence is needed desperately, not government spending on bureaucracy ("free LED light bulbs everyone") funded by debt and tax grabs.
    Last edited by moahunter; 14-03-2017 at 10:46 AM.

  8. #108

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hilman View Post
    On this day we have a Mainstreet poll. Only one in four Albertans think the NDP are doing a good or excellent job handling the economy.

    Almost half think the NDP's handling is very poor. Not just poor. Very poor.


    More than half in Calgary think the NDP's handling of the economy is poor or very poor. Two out of three living outside the big cities make the same judgment.

    Even in Edmonton, opinion is split down the middle.
    http://www.edmontonsun.com/2017/03/1...ion-sewer-rats
    I tend to ignore polling. Their methodology has been undermined by technology and their own self-defeating processes.

    How many people did the poll contact?

    Do you know anyone that participates in polls these days? Do you?
    Last edited by KC; 14-03-2017 at 10:50 AM.

  9. #109

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by howie View Post
    ^ Sun readers.
    Media serving its target market with news it wants to hear.

  10. #110

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    In the poll the #1 priority from those polled is to cut taxes, despite still having the lowest taxes in the country. I'm absolutely positive that the people that complain the most are the ones that have the least knowledge of how anything is anywhere else, or how anything works in general.
    Lower tax = more money for consumption / investment = less money for government to waste on civil servant salaries = more GDP growth = more investment. Its not rocket science, when Paul Martin lowered Canada's individual and corporate tax rate Canada's government revenues went up, not down, because the economy grew much faster because it was a vote of confidence in Canadian business / individuals. Its sad we are going in the opposite direction, most Albertan's realize its a huge mistake, especially in a time of low oil prices where business and consumer confidence is needed desperately, not government spending on bureaucracy ("free LED light bulbs everyone") funded by debt and tax grabs.
    Which services will you be OK not having so you can buy an extra couple coffees each month? Police? Health care? Roads?
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  11. #111
    C2E Stole my Heart!!!!
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Ozerna, North Edmonton
    Posts
    8,961

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Hilman View Post
    On this day we have a Mainstreet poll. Only one in four Albertans think the NDP are doing a good or excellent job handling the economy.

    Almost half think the NDP's handling is very poor. Not just poor. Very poor.


    More than half in Calgary think the NDP's handling of the economy is poor or very poor. Two out of three living outside the big cities make the same judgment.

    Even in Edmonton, opinion is split down the middle.
    http://www.edmontonsun.com/2017/03/1...ion-sewer-rats
    I tend to ignore polling. Their methodology has been undermined by technology and their own self-defeating processes.

    How many people did the poll contact?

    Do you know anyone that participates in polls these days? Do you?
    I find it odd that when a poll is for the NDP (or against Trump), they are quoted as gospel on here and the media lol. The attached links show their methodology (most polls are around 2,500 people), today's poll has not yet been added.
    http://www.mainstreetresearch.ca/alberta-polls/

  12. #112

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    Which services will you be OK not having so you can buy an extra couple coffees each month? Police? Health care? Roads?
    All of those. My kids can have a few extra children in their classrooms, they currently have about 25. I grew up with 35 to 40. We are spoiled and getting a level of service which is ridiculously expensive per capita and not affordable. The government should do like CNRL - a 10% salary cut for high earners scaled down for lower earners. Government department workers, doctors, nurses, teachers, all of them. That would be a good start, its time to face up that we don't have $100 oil anymore and can't afford to keep racking up debt which will just sink future generations dreams like in Ontario now (equivalent of a subway line every year wasted on debt service costs).
    Last edited by moahunter; 14-03-2017 at 11:19 AM.

  13. #113
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    edmonton
    Posts
    4,288

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by howie View Post
    ^ Sun readers.
    Media serving its target market with news it wants to hear.
    Absolutely that.
    Nisi Dominus Frustra

  14. #114

    Default Mainstreet polling organization

    ^hear no evil, see no evil. I bet you liked mainstreet polls when they predicted the NDP Alberta victory.

    Mainstreet Research is a national polling firm. With 20 years of political experience at all three levels of government, President and CEO Quito Maggi is a respected commentator on Canadian public affairs.

    Differentiated by its large sample sizes, Mainstreet Research has provided accurate snapshots of public opinion, having predicted a majority NDP government in Alberta, a majority Liberal government in British Columbia and a majority Liberal government in Ontario. Mainstreet has been the most accurate polling firm in several by elections and the most recent Toronto mayoral election. Most recently, Mainstreet Research was the only polling firm to correctly predict a Liberal majority government in the 2015 Canadian federal election.

    You’ll find Mainstreet polls in news stories all across Canada, but in particular, in Postmedia publications. You can find our public polls here on this website, read what we’re thinking, read a message from our president or contact us to commission your own private research.
    http://www.mainstreetresearch.ca/about-us/

  15. #115
    C2E Hard Core Contributor
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Edmonton
    Posts
    3,615

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hilman View Post
    On this day we have a Mainstreet poll. Only one in four Albertans think the NDP are doing a good or excellent job handling the economy.

    Almost half think the NDP's handling is very poor. Not just poor. Very poor.


    More than half in Calgary think the NDP's handling of the economy is poor or very poor. Two out of three living outside the big cities make the same judgment.

    Even in Edmonton, opinion is split down the middle.
    http://www.edmontonsun.com/2017/03/1...ion-sewer-rats

    Not in the least surprised....Signed,a journal reader......

  16. #116
    C2E Hard Core Contributor
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Edmonton
    Posts
    3,615

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hello lady View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Hilman View Post
    On this day we have a Mainstreet poll. Only one in four Albertans think the NDP are doing a good or excellent job handling the economy.

    Almost half think the NDP's handling is very poor. Not just poor. Very poor.


    More than half in Calgary think the NDP's handling of the economy is poor or very poor. Two out of three living outside the big cities make the same judgment.

    Even in Edmonton, opinion is split down the middle.
    http://www.edmontonsun.com/2017/03/1...ion-sewer-rats

    Not in the least surprised....Signed,a journal reader......
    I took the poll. Sewer rats?....can I call her names,like fat*******!

  17. #117

    Default

    I'm not a big fan of the NDP but I do like most of the cabinet. They seem less 'into themselves' than the last P C cabinet we had. Notley has a way better personality than Redford ever did. Notley seems approachable and more open. Having said that, even though I don't particularly like some NDP policies I would rather watch Notley being interviewed then Redford or any of the other PC blowhards from back in the day.
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

  18. #118
    C2E Hard Core Contributor
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Edmonton
    Posts
    3,615

    Default

    I couldn't stand Redford, the red conservative.

  19. #119

    Default

    If any other party had formed government, the approval rating would be the exact same, because the economy would be in the exact same position. The difference is what each party would be doing to set us up for the future. NDP is pushing hard to diversify, while PC and Wildrose would be happy to go full tilt oil despite the writing being on the wall that it's simultaneously phasing out globally, and cheaper to produce anywhere else while we still need it.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  20. #120

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    If any other party had formed government, the approval rating would be the exact same, because the economy would be in the exact same position.
    No - Premiers that face up to the situation, cut government back and encourage investment, in hard times, have done quite well. Klein did this, and was loved by all except the Looney Left who think that government continuing to run up the credit card even as revenues plumet solves all ills.

  21. #121

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    If any other party had formed government, the approval rating would be the exact same, because the economy would be in the exact same position.
    No - Premiers that face up to the situation, cut government back and encourage investment, in hard times, have done quite well. Klein did this, and was loved by all except the Looney Left who think that government continuing to run up the credit card even as revenues plumet solves all ills.
    Klein did it but that was a decade after the bubble burst. Recall that news story comparing Notley's today's actions to Getty's in the 80s. Loads of parallels because; one, voters prefer a soft landing vs a hard landing because they want to avoid a death spiral that could take them down with it, two, people hope or think a downturn is jsut going to be short-lived (eg 2009) and three, politicians have to be seen as doing positive things like spending - not cutting programs.


    However, as I've said, while many government job hae absoltuley nothing to do with the oil sector, I still think that the governemnt should cut wages because it's revenues have fallen (because we have a somewhat stupidly orientated revenue-ependiture fiscal system that is almost volitility-maximizing - not smoothing.)

    Raising personal taxes did the same thing as a wage cut and appropriately hit all high income taxpayers across the province. I would now target government employees - though I would initially spend the savings to create more jobs. I would want to cut any jobs or programs. (If they were valuable before oil prices dropped how are they not valuable after oil prices dropped?) Government workers though need to participate in both the economic upside and downside in this commodity driven province.

    Taxes on corporations? Well Corps only pay taxes if profitable so that wasn't too bad. Spend mor and they reduce their taxes. Plus they cut taxes on the small corps. That's probably ok too - since the dogma is that it ist he small corp. that generate al the jobs. (I'm not sure if that's true.) However, I also suspect we could all be better off if we just eliminate all corporate taxes by forcing them to pay out annual earnings (REITs/Royalty Trusts style) and tax it at the shareholder or at the border maybe via a withholding tax.

  22. #122
    C2E Hard Core Contributor
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Downtown
    Posts
    3,712

    Default



    Top_Dawg is loving this whole debacle.

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...ment-1.4025185

  23. #123

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Dawg View Post


    Top_Dawg is loving this whole debacle.

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...ment-1.4025185
    "Sewer rats". Not a phrase you hear ever from life long Albertans. Did she sneak across the border?

    Oh, religious studies - now it makes sense.

    "She holds a BA and BSc from Concordia University College of Alberta, in religion and math respectively."
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Hoffman
    Last edited by KC; 15-03-2017 at 09:24 AM.

  24. #124
    C2E Hard Core Contributor
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Edmonton
    Posts
    3,615

    Default

    How many sewer rats does it take to kick out the NDP.

  25. #125

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Dawg View Post


    Top_Dawg is loving this whole debacle.

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...ment-1.4025185
    "Sewer rats". Not a phrase you hear ever from life long Albertans. Did she sneak across the border?

    Oh, religious studies - now it makes sense.

    "She holds a BA and BSc from Concordia University College of Alberta, in religion and math respectively."
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Hoffman
    Not sure what her diplomas have to do with her comments, but then again some of the connections you make while trying to make a point don't make sense.
    I'm surprised Hoffman said something like that as usually she seems on the ball. I am wondering why Brian Mason is bleating away and trying to defend her.
    He's trying to say it was taking out of content. I don't think so. Mason should be quite and let the matter fade. No use trying to down play it, that horse has bolted.
    ____
    The issue is not over. NDP House leader Brian Mason made a point of order to the Speaker about how the opposition is misrepresenting Hoffman's use of the term.


    Mason said she was not using the term to refer to all Albertans.
    "I was present at the time and in no way did she intend, or could any reasonable person infer, that she was calling Albertans sewer rats," he said.

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...ment-1.4025185

    If Hoffman was not using the term to refer to all Albertans just what Albertans was she referring it to Brian?.
    Shut up Brian, you're not helping.
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

  26. #126
    C2E Stole my Heart!!!!
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Downtown Edmonton
    Posts
    9,807

    Default

    It seems like the NDP have been practicing canned lines, or something. They've trotted out a few of these too clever by half responses in the past while.

  27. #127

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    ^I never said Alberta had had a referendum or a separatist government, I said there are people in Alberta who holler about separating but its empty rhetoric.
    You are also wrong about Scotland and Northern Ireland. There would be all kinds of hurdles for them to get out of the U K and stay part of the EU. The unelected officials in the EU have even told Scotland that they cannot just ask and be taking back in. That is definitely not on the EU agenda. Scotland cannot just leave the EU without another referendum. Tell me, if they had another Scottish referendum and they voted to stay with the U. K. Sturgeon would be screwed. Even if they did vote to leave the U.K. the E U is not just going to tell them to walk right in and draw up a chair at the table.
    Sky News Mar. 13, 2017:


    • Scottish leader Nicola Sturgeon says she WILL request a second independence referendum for Scotland.
    • The Scottish first minister says British Prime Minister Theresa May has refused to compromise on Scotland's Brexit wish list.
    • Sturgeon wants the referendum to take place between autumn 2018 and spring 2019.
    • The UK government must now decide whether to grant Sturgeon's wish.
    • A poll published last week put support for independence at its highest level in months.

    The EU has so far said Scotland would not automatically get back in, but I suspect that position could change if negotiating Brexit with the UK does not go well. The EU has 60 billion or so worth of EU liabilities they want to UK to pick up. If the UK agrees, I think the EU will probably not change its position on Scotland.

  28. #128

    Default

    Modicum of faith in (some of) my fellow Albertans restored.

    Albertans think high-income earners, corporations not paying enough tax: poll
    A majority of Albertans (60%) think it is more important for the government to improve access to public programs and services than it is to avoid a deficit, but there is a difference in opinion on how this should be accomplished: 46% believe access should be improved even if it means running a deficit, while 14% think improved access should achieved through a tax increase.
    Albertans across the three major party lines believe that high-income earners and corporations are not paying enough in taxes.
    • 70% of respondents (including 84% of NDP supporters, 66% of PC supporters, and 64% of Wildrose supporters) think the richest fifth of Albertans do not pay enough in taxes.
    • 55% (70% NDP, 50% PC, and 48% Wildrose) also think the second-richest fifth do not pay enough.
    • 61% of respondents (79% NDP, 56% PC, and 48% Wildrose) think major corporations do not pay enough in taxes.
    • 65% said people earning over $250,000 should pay more taxes, while only 15% said no one should pay higher taxes.
    http://www.parklandinstitute.ca/medi...nough_tax_poll
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  29. #129

    Default

    ^left wing poll with leading unscientific questions, I notice you selectively didn't show this one:

    •When asked about their own level of taxation, 39% of respondents answered that they are paying a bit more tax than they should and 33% said they were paying much more than they should. One-quarter of Albertans believe they are paying the right amount of tax.
    So 72% of Albertans think they are paying too much tax. That matches the mainstreet poll as well, Albertans are very unhappy about the tax they are paying.

    Per Mainstreet - this government is a lame duck that we just have to hope doesn't destroy too much of our economy before we get a responsible government:

    Taken as a whole, 58 per cent of Albertans are dissatisfied with the government's response to the province's economic woes, suggests the Mainstreet Research poll commissioned by PostMedia, released Tuesday.

    In Edmonton, it's a statistical tie — with 40 per cent saying the government response has been excellent or good and 41 per cent saying it's been poor or very poor.

    In Calgary, 52 per cent aren't satisfied.

    In the rest of the province, a whopping 66 per cent of respondents said the government's response has been poor or very poor.
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...ions-1.4024419
    Last edited by moahunter; 15-03-2017 at 03:59 PM.

  30. #130

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^left wing poll, I notice you selectively didn't show this one:

    •When asked about their own level of taxation, 39% of respondents answered that they are paying a bit more tax than they should and 33% said they were paying much more than they should. One-quarter of Albertans believe they are paying the right amount of tax.
    So 72% of Albertans think they are paying too much tax.
    Again hilarious! You're on a roll today. Only 72% and not 100%? Let me guess, the 25% that think they are paying the right amount of tax, aren't paying any tax. The 39% saying they are paying a bit more than they should are government workers and other government beneficiaries getting services right now from the government, like seniors, sick people, etc.

    I can't wait to see the poll results from wherever it is that has people saying that they aren't paying enough taxes. I wonder how things were under our fabled Ralph Klein era?
    Last edited by KC; 15-03-2017 at 04:01 PM.

  31. #131

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    I can't wait to see the poll results from wherever it is that has people saying that they aren't paying enough taxes. I wonder how things were under our fabled Ralph Klein era?
    I'm sure Postmedia is commissioning another "independent" poll from their pals at Mainstreet as we speak.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  32. #132
    C2E Stole my Heart!!!!
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Downtown Edmonton
    Posts
    9,807

    Default

    Of course most people think that everyone other than themselves should be paying more tax, while they should be paying less. No one much likes seeing 20-50% of their paycheque evaporate. Personally I think with the changes the NDP and Liberals made, tax rates are about where they should be. Although they badly broke integration, according to my accountants, and that's not a good thing. Tax systems are complicated, and there are a lot of highly intelligent individuals whose sole focus in their career is to find a few percent here or there.

    https://www.ctf.ca/ctfweb/EN/Newslet.../2/160210.aspx
    Last edited by Marcel Petrin; 15-03-2017 at 04:21 PM.

  33. #133

    Default

    My wife laughed at the amount of tax we pay compared to what she's used to (Sweden). Heck, she paid more in tax on a litre of gas than we pay for a litre of gas, all-in.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  34. #134
    C2E Stole my Heart!!!!
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Downtown Edmonton
    Posts
    9,807

    Default

    It's worth noting that Sweden has been reducing taxes and the government's involvement in the economy over the past 20 years, not increasing them. Government spending used to be over 70% of it's economy in the 90's, now it's around 50%. Much like Canada did around the same time, Sweden made big structural reforms to bring that down, because the economy was stagnating, it was falling behind other European countries in competitiveness, and their banking/financial system was on the verge of collapse: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Econom...s_of_the_1990s

    There's no perfect economic/financial/tax system. Each should be judged on it's merits. Sweden, like Canada, was becoming a basket case and it got it's act together. They've settled on a larger state than what we have in Canada. If that works for them, great. It's unquestionably one of the best countries in the world to live in. But the same can be said of Canada, despite our differences.

  35. #135
    Becoming a C2E Power Poster
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Edmonton
    Posts
    139

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    My wife laughed at the amount of tax we pay compared to what she's used to (Sweden). Heck, she paid more in tax on a litre of gas than we pay for a litre of gas, all-in.
    I guess that makes it ok then. Good. The disagreement over taxes is settled. Let's all sing kumbaya.

  36. #136

    Default Alberta NDP offers to give it the old college try in odd, defeatist-sounding budget

    The NDP government is proudly borrowing $6 billion this year to build capital projects such as schools and hospitals – and is borrowing $6.4 billion to pay for the day-to-day costs of operating the government, including paying the wages of public sector workers.

    “When the oil price shock hit our economy, Albertans were faced with a choice,” Finance Minister Joe Ceci said Thursday in his budget address. “Some said, and some still say, that government should make deep cuts to public services, such as health care and education.”

    Instead, the government is spending more and borrowing more than any government in Alberta history.
    http://news.nationalpost.com/full-co...ounding-budget

    If I lose my job I'll run out and buy a more expensive house / take on a bigger mortgage, hire a nanny, a chef and a butler, all in the knowledge I'll get another job one day - that's the logic of the NDP praying for an oil price increase to justify their government spending / borrowing ramp up. Maybe I can get there on the infrastructure spend, but $6.4 billion of debt just to pay day to day public sector wages? Nuts.

  37. #137
    C2E Stole my Heart!!!!
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Ozerna, North Edmonton
    Posts
    8,961

    Default

    Man are they running up our tab, shopping spree Notley has a nice ring to it lol.

  38. #138
    C2E Continued Contributor
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    St. Albert
    Posts
    1,979

    Default

    I love these NDP budgets. I retire in less than 10 years, this debt subsidizes my lifestyle and the millennials will be paying for it while I'm relaxing on a beach.
    You all have my sincere appreciation.

  39. #139

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hilman View Post
    Man are they running up our tab, shopping spree Notley has a nice ring to it lol.
    It's not so much a spending spree as some on the right like to claim, but a collapse in revenue that is causing the deficit. Maintaining schools, hospitals, roads etc.. is not cheap. I think Alberta's economy will start to recover in 2017, I don't think with the economic recovery being so fragile yet it is the time for big time austerity.

    I think by this time next year the picture will be better and the deficit will start to be reduced more substantially.

    There is a lot of talk about the deficit people are leaving their kids, but if we don't pay properly for their education now it's even worse for their future.

  40. #140
    C2E Hard Core Contributor
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Edmonton
    Posts
    3,615

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hilman View Post
    Man are they running up our tab, shopping spree Notley has a nice ring to it lol.

    I totally agree...( sigh)

  41. #141

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    There is a lot of talk about the deficit people are leaving their kids, but if we don't pay properly for their education now it's even worse for their future.
    So the NDP have to spend more than any Alberta government ever have otherwise our kids will suffer? Really? Poor things, luckily the province is borrowing all this money for them to enjoy paying off one day, so that they can do things like subsidize the equalization pool by a billion dollars to keep electricity prices down instead of allowing them to skyrocket (which would have been the result of their disastrous carbon tax policies if they hadn't dipped into the credit card).

  42. #142

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^left wing poll with leading unscientific questions, I notice you selectively didn't show this one:

    •When asked about their own level of taxation, 39% of respondents answered that they are paying a bit more tax than they should and 33% said they were paying much more than they should. One-quarter of Albertans believe they are paying the right amount of tax.
    So 72% of Albertans think they are paying too much tax. That matches the mainstreet poll as well, Albertans are very unhappy about the tax they are paying.

    Per Mainstreet - this government is a lame duck that we just have to hope doesn't destroy too much of our economy before we get a responsible government:

    Taken as a whole, 58 per cent of Albertans are dissatisfied with the government's response to the province's economic woes, suggests the Mainstreet Research poll commissioned by PostMedia, released Tuesday.

    In Edmonton, it's a statistical tie — with 40 per cent saying the government response has been excellent or good and 41 per cent saying it's been poor or very poor.

    In Calgary, 52 per cent aren't satisfied.

    In the rest of the province, a whopping 66 per cent of respondents said the government's response has been poor or very poor.
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...ions-1.4024419
    This just in:

    "Most people are always unhappy about the amount of tax they are paying, regardless of their political ideologies."

    I didn't even have to conduct a survey to find that out! My god.

  43. #143

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    There is a lot of talk about the deficit people are leaving their kids, but if we don't pay properly for their education now it's even worse for their future.
    So the NDP have to spend more than any Alberta government ever have otherwise our kids will suffer? Really? Poor things, luckily the province is borrowing all this money for them to enjoy paying off one day, so that they can do things like subsidize the equalization pool by a billion dollars to keep electricity prices down instead of allowing them to skyrocket (which would have been the result of their disastrous carbon tax policies if they hadn't dipped into the credit card).
    Ok wise one - health care and education are the two biggest areas of provincial government spending by far. How much do you think the government should cut in these areas to reduce or eliminate the deficit?

  44. #144
    C2E Continued Contributor
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    teh city of gold
    Posts
    1,062

    Default

    Cut both health care & edge-goo-ma-cation. Too many lefty teachers worrying about what bathroom those kids that suffer from gender distopia want to use.

    And we need pay per visit doctor appointments if you go over your limit ( with exceptions like cancer and stuff)

    No way in hell teh dippers get re-elected. So don't bother revamping curriculum, you will not be around much longer.

    And wats with Sarah Hoffman? An over weight health minister! ��������
    Wats the hidden message? Do as I say not as I do! She has ZERO credibility! Other than at the doughnut counter ordering her daily 12 pack)��������������
    Last edited by Admin; 18-03-2017 at 07:04 PM. Reason: Removed reported anti-Semetic comment. Replaced with goo

  45. #145

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    The NDP government is proudly borrowing $6 billion this year to build capital projects such as schools and hospitals – and is borrowing $6.4 billion to pay for the day-to-day costs of operating the government, including paying the wages of public sector workers.

    “When the oil price shock hit our economy, Albertans were faced with a choice,” Finance Minister Joe Ceci said Thursday in his budget address. “Some said, and some still say, that government should make deep cuts to public services, such as health care and education.”

    Instead, the government is spending more and borrowing more than any government in Alberta history.
    http://news.nationalpost.com/full-co...ounding-budget

    If I lose my job I'll run out and buy a more expensive house / take on a bigger mortgage, hire a nanny, a chef and a butler, all in the knowledge I'll get another job one day - that's the logic of the NDP praying for an oil price increase to justify their government spending / borrowing ramp up. Maybe I can get there on the infrastructure spend, but $6.4 billion of debt just to pay day to day public sector wages? Nuts.
    I just love those all those flawed analogies between people's potential circumstances and the governments. So did the government just lose its job? - Uh sorry, NO.

    The schools and the hospitals are still functioning and the people of Alberta are still supporting all the services that government provides.

  46. #146

    Default

    On the front page of Metro Joe Ceci is quoted

    Albertans won't bear the brunt
    But there was no mention of who will.
    I feel in no way entitled to your opinion...

  47. #147
    C2E Hard Core Contributor
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Edmonton
    Posts
    3,615

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal Fang View Post
    Cut both health care & edge-goo-ma-cation. Too many lefty teachers worrying about what bathroom those kids that suffer from gender distopia want to use.

    And we need pay per visit doctor appointments if you go over your limit ( with exceptions like cancer and stuff)

    No way in hell teh dippers get re-elected. So don't bother revamping curriculum, you will not be around much longer.

    And wats with Sarah Hoffman? An over weight health minister! 
    Wats the hidden message? Do as I say not as I do! She has ZERO credibility! Other than at the doughnut counter ordering her daily 12 pack)

    LOL,Thankyou!!!Too funny

  48. #148
    C2E Hard Core Contributor
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Edmonton
    Posts
    3,615

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    On the front page of Metro Joe Ceci is quoted

    Albertans won't bear the brunt
    But there was no mention of who will.

    Ceci is thinking, Martians maybe...

  49. #149

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hello lady View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal Fang View Post
    Cut both health care & edge-goo-ma-cation. Too many lefty teachers worrying about what bathroom those kids that suffer from gender distopia want to use.

    And we need pay per visit doctor appointments if you go over your limit ( with exceptions like cancer and stuff)

    No way in hell teh dippers get re-elected. So don't bother revamping curriculum, you will not be around much longer.

    And wats with Sarah Hoffman? An over weight health minister! 
    Wats the hidden message? Do as I say not as I do! She has ZERO credibility! Other than at the doughnut counter ordering her daily 12 pack)

    LOL,Thankyou!!!Too funny
    I like that Fang actually said what to cut and increase. Typically there's a lot of complaining but no one has the guts to say what they'd actually cut to make up a $10 billion shortfall. The usual mindless response it to cut government waste - a totally useless thought if the person doesn't say where, what and how much that "waste" is.

    Moreover, if government cuts spending but that spending still has to take place, that's just "offloading". Often the cost to the public and to the province is higher after offloading, but at least it gets it off the government's books and that makes people "feel" happy, even though they are poorer in the end.

  50. #150
    C2E Hard Core Contributor
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Downtown
    Posts
    3,712

    Default

    It's playoff time.

    Top_Dawg sez ' LET'EM GO ! ' .

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...olly-1.4076362

  51. #151

    Default

    Ok ... I've always said credit where credit is due.

    Just finished hearing and then reading about the changes to the temporary foreign worker program and the annoucement of the worker location program the province is doing inconjunction with the fedeeral government. This appears to be a good choice of program revisions and worker assistance.

    Good job Alberta NDP.

    The other side of the coin of course ... Why did the Alberta NDP not do this 18 months/2 years ago?

  52. #152
    C2E Continued Contributor
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Edmonton
    Posts
    1,679

    Default

    ^ celebrate. Why think too much. Ndp did well.
    The world is full of kings and queens, who blind your eyes then steal your dreams.
    It's heaven and hell!

  53. #153

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Hinderks View Post
    Ok ... I've always said credit where credit is due.

    Just finished hearing and then reading about the changes to the temporary foreign worker program and the annoucement of the worker location program the province is doing inconjunction with the fedeeral government. This appears to be a good choice of program revisions and worker assistance.

    Good job Alberta NDP.

    The other side of the coin of course ... Why did the Alberta NDP not do this 18 months/2 years ago?
    Could be it also has something to do with the Captain Selfies open door policy on refugees. Seems there could be no end of them flooding over the border now the weather is getting warmer. These people are going to need jobs while they circumvent the lineup of other refugees trying to get into Canada. While their applications take months or even years to be approved they will be looking for work. These refugees will not be classed as TFW but rather non permanent residence waiting for permanent residency.
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

  54. #154

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill View Post
    ^ celebrate. Why think too much. Ndp did well.
    First off, there is no cause to celebrate ... as the Minister stated there are 200,000 Albertas out of work. (630 CHED this morning) and the Senator from Alberta stated yesterday (on CHED)

    Second, this is the kind of programming that should have been THE priority to put in place at the start of the FIRST year of their governance.

    Third, this had best be just a beginning. So far their record on anything to do with employment is abysmal (IMO) while they have been playing ideological politics.

    Lastly ... Why think to much? Really, can't speak for anyone but me ... I think about all the things that effect me and my family continually, as I've just shown I'll give credit when credit is due and retain my right to critique' when after consideration I believe it is crap.

    As we all should

    IMO

  55. #155

    Default

    The NDP can't use the excuse of price of oil either. The price of oil is now higher than when they came to power, but our economic position is now relatively in tatters.

  56. #156

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Hinderks View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill View Post
    ^ celebrate. Why think too much. Ndp did well.
    First off, there is no cause to celebrate ... as the Minister stated there are 200,000 Albertas out of work. (630 CHED this morning) and the Senator from Alberta stated yesterday (on CHED)

    Second, this is the kind of programming that should have been THE priority to put in place at the start of the FIRST year of their governance.

    Third, this had best be just a beginning. So far their record on anything to do with employment is abysmal (IMO) while they have been playing ideological politics.

    Lastly ... Why think to much? Really, can't speak for anyone but me ... I think about all the things that effect me and my family continually, as I've just shown I'll give credit when credit is due and retain my right to critique' when after consideration I believe it is crap.

    As we all should

    IMO
    "Second, this is the kind of programming that should have been THE priority to put in place at the start of the FIRST year of their governance."

    Government's generally move slow, even in a crisis. I know nothing of this but as everyone was slashing jobs, were the TFW's somehow prioritized and protected? Were TFWs still being brought in to displace domestic workers?

    It just that "put downs" for something not being done earlier when there didn't seem to be any great prior public outcry, seems odd.

    Note the comments on c2e's own thread about TFWs. Was there earlier suggestions about this high priority 'programming' change mentioned earlier in any of the NDP or PC threads? (I'm likely somewhat wrong but I get the impression that the NDP has done something here that people think is good but people themselves hadn't really been prioritizing themselves.)

    http://www.connect2edmonton.ca/showt...oreign-Workers



    Here's what businesses were generally asking for. If I read it right it's for more access to more labour (non-Albertan, non-Canadian labour), not less:

    Alberta businesses eager to see Temporary Foreign Worker Program scrapped or reformed

    Alia Dharssi
    Published on: May 10, 2016

    “With the Canadian dollar being weaker today, it makes Canada’s product a lot more attractive to overseas buyers,” added Chambers, who is also co-chair of the national Agriculture and Agri-Food Labour Taskforce. “And, if we can’t produce it, live animals end up going to the U.S. to be finished and sorted.”

    The economic downturn has eased the problem for some. Restaurants that once struggled to fill jobs in Alberta are seeing a labour surplus. But Mark von Schellwitz, vice-president for Western Canada at Restaurants Canada, said that significant reforms to the TFWP are needed so that these businesses don’t find themselves in another bind when the economy recovers.

    The reforms he’s calling for include creating a way for more lower-skilled workers to get permanent residency, as well as giving seasonal resort communities such as Banff permanent access to seasonal TFWs.

    In spite of Alberta’s ailing economy,..."

    http://calgaryherald.com/news/local-...ed-or-reformed
    bolding was mine
    Last edited by KC; 20-04-2017 at 02:33 PM.

  57. #157

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    The NDP can't use the excuse of price of oil either. The price of oil is now higher than when they came to power, but our economic position is now relatively in tatters.
    What?!?

    You work in a business right?

  58. #158

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    What?!?

    You work in a business right?
    Moahunter is a Calgarian who works in the O&G field. Keep this in mind whenever he talks about just about anything as it illuminates much of his positioning.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  59. #159

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    The NDP can't use the excuse of price of oil either. The price of oil is now higher than when they came to power, but our economic position is now relatively in tatters.
    What?!?

    You work in a business right?
    I seem to recall oil being somewhat higher than now when the provincial government changed, but if you have the daily prices from that date please feel free to provide them.

    In any event the current price of the low $50's is still a long way from the peak of well over $100 that it was not so long ago when the PC's were in power.

  60. #160

    Default



    Notley took over after the momentum had started, but before it bottomed out. Line is 2 days before she took office, but as close as I could be bothered to futz it.
    Last edited by noodle; 20-04-2017 at 03:00 PM. Reason: Replaced pic with correct date highlighted. Previous graph was when she took over as head of NDP, not Premier. My bad!
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  61. #161

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post


    Notley took over after the momentum had started, but before it bottomed out. Line is 2 days before she took office, but as close as I could be bothered to futz it.
    Ahh - yes, "momentum" - a hint of real business understanding here. Cash flow, prior commitments, contractual obligations, debt obligations, sales contracts,... None of which in the aggregate of all businesses, is hugely affected by spot pricing but is by the trend of pricing.


    Since there's 5 and only 5 ways to increase earnings (increased sales, wider margins on sales, lower taxes, and lower or more debt) it makes sense that the reverse conditions would hurt business earnings.

    Thus falling oil prices have a cumulative effect leading to falling sales (turnover ratio), narrower operating margins, possibly more debt and possibly higher interest rates on that debt - if you have a struggling operation. Well, falling oil prices likely hurt sales, hurt margins and increased both debt and debt financing costs for a whole lot of businesses in Alberta. The double edged swords of leverage and living off a commodity.

    Graphically, what matters most here is the size of that area under the line on the graph. If our economic position s in tatters the reduced area under the graph's line means much more than the price on just two days on that line of daily pricing - because there's a huge gap downwards right in-between.

    Of course - falling global oil prices are all Notley's fault. Or is it that those actual, tangible material prices don't matter - all that matters is that our government create a touchy-feely, pro-business climate with a friendly atmosphere and business will rush in to dump massive amounts of capital into the province. Ahh, I forgot the sector destroying effects of a minimum wage increase and 'talk of' rising royalties rates which strikes fear into business people and investors that don't fear graphs like the above but do fear talk.
    Last edited by KC; 20-04-2017 at 03:58 PM.

  62. #162

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Hinderks View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill View Post
    ^ celebrate. Why think too much. Ndp did well.
    First off, there is no cause to celebrate ... as the Minister stated there are 200,000 Albertas out of work. (630 CHED this morning) and the Senator from Alberta stated yesterday (on CHED)

    Second, this is the kind of programming that should have been THE priority to put in place at the start of the FIRST year of their governance.

    Third, this had best be just a beginning. So far their record on anything to do with employment is abysmal (IMO) while they have been playing ideological politics.

    Lastly ... Why think to much? Really, can't speak for anyone but me ... I think about all the things that effect me and my family continually, as I've just shown I'll give credit when credit is due and retain my right to critique' when after consideration I believe it is crap.

    As we all should

    IMO
    "Second, this is the kind of programming that should have been THE priority to put in place at the start of the FIRST year of their governance."

    Government's generally move slow, even in a crisis. I know nothing of this but as everyone was slashing jobs, were the TFW's somehow prioritized and protected? Were TFWs still being brought in to displace domestic workers?

    It just that "put downs" for something not being done earlier when there didn't seem to be any great prior public outcry, seems odd.

    Note the comments on c2e's own thread about TFWs. Was there earlier suggestions about this high priority 'programming' change mentioned earlier in any of the NDP or PC threads? (I'm likely somewhat wrong but I get the impression that the NDP has done something here that people think is good but people themselves hadn't really been prioritizing themselves.)

    http://www.connect2edmonton.ca/showt...oreign-Workers



    Here's what businesses were generally asking for. If I read it right it's for more access to more labour (non-Albertan, non-Canadian labour), not less:

    Alberta businesses eager to see Temporary Foreign Worker Program scrapped or reformed

    Alia Dharssi
    Published on: May 10, 2016

    “With the Canadian dollar being weaker today, it makes Canada’s product a lot more attractive to overseas buyers,” added Chambers, who is also co-chair of the national Agriculture and Agri-Food Labour Taskforce. “And, if we can’t produce it, live animals end up going to the U.S. to be finished and sorted.”

    The economic downturn has eased the problem for some. Restaurants that once struggled to fill jobs in Alberta are seeing a labour surplus. But Mark von Schellwitz, vice-president for Western Canada at Restaurants Canada, said that significant reforms to the TFWP are needed so that these businesses don’t find themselves in another bind when the economy recovers.

    The reforms he’s calling for include creating a way for more lower-skilled workers to get permanent residency, as well as giving seasonal resort communities such as Banff permanent access to seasonal TFWs.

    In spite of Alberta’s ailing economy,..."

    http://calgaryherald.com/news/local-...ed-or-reformed
    bolding was mine
    KC

    To me it is less the TFW issue and more that they are now setting up to actively connect the employers with qualified unemployed Alberta potential employees. Something that has been sorely missing.

    Of course - falling global oil prices are all Notley's fault. Or is it that those actual, tangible material prices don't matter - all that matters is that our government create a touchy-feely, pro-business climate with a friendly atmosphere and business will rush in to dump massive amounts of capital into the province.


    The falling oil prices were never the government in powers fault, failing to react to it was/is. There were dozens of major infrastructure projects on the shelf that could have been implemented quickly.
    (accelerating the Twinning of Highway 63 is the first that comes to mind), working to assist (marketing/incentives) moving manufacturing into new sectors (aerospace as an example). I could go on but won't.

    And yes creating a touchy, feely (perceived) business friendly enviroment is not to be discounted as anyone who has spent a career in sales will tell you.

    By making it a priority to get people back to work it would have made bringing in things like the carbon tax and other reforms easier ... as was demonstrated by Rooseveldt and many other in the past. A population that is busy and not worked about the basics for their family are easier to get to go along with change. History shows it repeatedly.

    IMO

  63. #163

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Hinderks View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Hinderks View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill View Post
    ^ celebrate. Why think too much. Ndp did well.
    First off, there is no cause to celebrate ... as the Minister stated there are 200,000 Albertas out of work. (630 CHED this morning) and the Senator from Alberta stated yesterday (on CHED)

    Second, this is the kind of programming that should have been THE priority to put in place at the start of the FIRST year of their governance.

    Third, this had best be just a beginning. So far their record on anything to do with employment is abysmal (IMO) while they have been playing ideological politics.

    Lastly ... Why think to much? Really, can't speak for anyone but me ... I think about all the things that effect me and my family continually, as I've just shown I'll give credit when credit is due and retain my right to critique' when after consideration I believe it is crap.

    As we all should

    IMO
    "Second, this is the kind of programming that should have been THE priority to put in place at the start of the FIRST year of their governance."

    Government's generally move slow, even in a crisis. I know nothing of this but as everyone was slashing jobs, were the TFW's somehow prioritized and protected? Were TFWs still being brought in to displace domestic workers?

    It just that "put downs" for something not being done earlier when there didn't seem to be any great prior public outcry, seems odd.

    Note the comments on c2e's own thread about TFWs. Was there earlier suggestions about this high priority 'programming' change mentioned earlier in any of the NDP or PC threads? (I'm likely somewhat wrong but I get the impression that the NDP has done something here that people think is good but people themselves hadn't really been prioritizing themselves.)

    http://www.connect2edmonton.ca/showt...oreign-Workers



    Here's what businesses were generally asking for. If I read it right it's for more access to more labour (non-Albertan, non-Canadian labour), not less:

    Alberta businesses eager to see Temporary Foreign Worker Program scrapped or reformed

    Alia Dharssi
    Published on: May 10, 2016

    “With the Canadian dollar being weaker today, it makes Canada’s product a lot more attractive to overseas buyers,” added Chambers, who is also co-chair of the national Agriculture and Agri-Food Labour Taskforce. “And, if we can’t produce it, live animals end up going to the U.S. to be finished and sorted.”

    The economic downturn has eased the problem for some. Restaurants that once struggled to fill jobs in Alberta are seeing a labour surplus. But Mark von Schellwitz, vice-president for Western Canada at Restaurants Canada, said that significant reforms to the TFWP are needed so that these businesses don’t find themselves in another bind when the economy recovers.

    The reforms he’s calling for include creating a way for more lower-skilled workers to get permanent residency, as well as giving seasonal resort communities such as Banff permanent access to seasonal TFWs.

    In spite of Alberta’s ailing economy,..."

    http://calgaryherald.com/news/local-...ed-or-reformed
    bolding was mine
    KC

    To me it is less the TFW issue and more that they are now setting up to actively connect the employers with qualified unemployed Alberta potential employees. Something that has been sorely missing.

    Of course - falling global oil prices are all Notley's fault. Or is it that those actual, tangible material prices don't matter - all that matters is that our government create a touchy-feely, pro-business climate with a friendly atmosphere and business will rush in to dump massive amounts of capital into the province.


    The falling oil prices were never the government in powers fault, failing to react to it was/is. There were dozens of major infrastructure projects on the shelf that could have been implemented quickly.
    (accelerating the Twinning of Highway 63 is the first that comes to mind), working to assist (marketing/incentives) moving manufacturing into new sectors (aerospace as an example). I could go on but won't.

    And yes creating a touchy, feely (perceived) business friendly enviroment is not to be discounted as anyone who has spent a career in sales will tell you.

    By making it a priority to get people back to work it would have made bringing in things like the carbon tax and other reforms easier ... as was demonstrated by Rooseveldt and many other in the past. A population that is busy and not worked about the basics for their family are easier to get to go along with change. History shows it repeatedly.

    IMO
    I used to think that way but now think differently. Any government, NDP, Liberals or Conservatives, coming to the aid of the economy just gets criticized. Doing it early, when things seem less desperate only brings on more criticism. People and businesses seem to have to know fear, know personal or direct hardship before they appreciate aid to others. There's little empathy or ability to feel empty. Attitudes tend to be inflexible or ignorant without direct experience.

    Go into any company and suggest a 5% wage across the board cut to save jobs and everyone will immediately do a quick calculation in their heads regarding their own likelihood of being let go.

    Or take the history of most social programs and reforms. Only when the risk hits close to home, like that which happened in the 1930s do people experience 'empathy' and welcome change.

    Drug use - it's been "Just say no" and lock em up until the worst drugs started to hit the middle class, the kids of lawyers, police officers and politicians - only then has 'empathy' surfaced and talk of real change begun.

    Prevention, early intervention, harm reduction, economic management, regulation, etc are always opposed until the pain hits home.
    Last edited by KC; 20-04-2017 at 06:58 PM.

  64. #164

    Default Every bit as much a failure in second year as first year

    The only bright light on the Alberta political horizon, is this NDP government is toast:



    A Mainstreet Research survey conducted for Postmedia shows the Wildrose under Brian Jean on top among leaning and decided voters, at 37 per cent.

    The PCs, with former MP Jason Kenney at the helm since last month, are in second at 29 per cent, while Rachel Notley’s NDP trails both parties at 24 per cent.

    The Liberals under David Swann and the Alberta Party led by Greg Clark each have the backing of five per cent of voters.

    The numbers are almost identical to the previous Mainstreet political poll in February, though in that survey Wildrose was at 38 per cent, the Tories — then under interim leader Ric McIver — were steady at 29 per cent and the NDP stood at 23 per cent. The Liberal and Alberta Party numbers are unchanged in the new poll.
    http://calgaryherald.com/news/politi...-move-the-dial

  65. #165
    C2E Hard Core Contributor
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Edmonton
    Posts
    3,615

    Default

    Good news!! Very good news..I loathe the NDP

  66. #166
    C2E Continued Contributor
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Edmonton
    Posts
    1,679

    Default

    I think NDP will win a second term
    The world is full of kings and queens, who blind your eyes then steal your dreams.
    It's heaven and hell!

  67. #167
    C2E Hard Core Contributor
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Edmonton
    Posts
    3,615

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill View Post
    I think NDP will win a second term

    No chance !

  68. #168

    Default

    I think a Wildrose minority government would be good for the province.

  69. #169
    C2E Continued Contributor
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Edmonton
    Posts
    1,679

    Default

    ^^ You're right. It will be a third term for the NDP!
    The world is full of kings and queens, who blind your eyes then steal your dreams.
    It's heaven and hell!

  70. #170
    C2E Junkie *
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Edmonton
    Posts
    13,295
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    The only bright light on the Alberta political horizon, is this NDP government is toast:



    A Mainstreet Research survey conducted for Postmedia shows the Wildrose under Brian Jean on top among leaning and decided voters, at 37 per cent.

    The PCs, with former MP Jason Kenney at the helm since last month, are in second at 29 per cent, while Rachel Notley’s NDP trails both parties at 24 per cent.

    The Liberals under David Swann and the Alberta Party led by Greg Clark each have the backing of five per cent of voters.

    The numbers are almost identical to the previous Mainstreet political poll in February, though in that survey Wildrose was at 38 per cent, the Tories — then under interim leader Ric McIver — were steady at 29 per cent and the NDP stood at 23 per cent. The Liberal and Alberta Party numbers are unchanged in the new poll.
    http://calgaryherald.com/news/politi...-move-the-dial
    Quote Originally Posted by hello lady View Post
    Good news!! Very good news..I loathe the NDP
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill View Post
    ^^ You're right. It will be a third term for the NDP!
    ..so what...

    Big deal. Given what I've encountered in the recent weeks, neither the Wildrose, NDP, PC's nor Liberals have my vote.

    I'm still trying to type out my thoughts without it turning into a complete rant from hell, but one particular project calls each and every party into question...

    Needless to say, I feel very much alienated from the political process, politicians, and truly feel unrepresented.
    Onward and upward

  71. #171
    C2E Hard Core Contributor
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Edmonton
    Posts
    3,615

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    I think a Wildrose minority government would be good for the province.
    With the conservatives as opposition. The ndp can go back to the phone booth.


  72. #172

    Default

    My first choice is NDP, second is Wildrose, third is the Alberta Party. I will never vote for PC.
    Edmonton first, everything else second.

  73. #173
    C2E Hard Core Contributor
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Edmonton
    Posts
    3,615

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ThomasH View Post
    My first choice is NDP, second is Wildrose, third is the Alberta Party. I will never vote for PC.


    Aww, you'll be missed...

  74. #174
    C2E Junkie *
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Edmonton
    Posts
    13,295
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ThomasH View Post
    My first choice is NDP, second is Wildrose, third is the Alberta Party. I will never vote for PC.

    Fair enough...but outside some ideological and some social issues, they are all the same on major projects. I once thought differently, but with the recent hypocrisy in the NDP's approach to a major unneeded project in the Electric world...one that completely contradicts the Climate Leadership Plan, lines the pockets of industry with guaranteed rates of return on an unneeded boondoggle (even the industry is wondering WTF), and is a complete about face from their position a few years ago...well...all we really did was change the paint on the walls from blue with orange trim, to orange.

    Governing in Canada forces people towards the centre. Once you stray (a la Chrétien Liberals, Redford Tories, Rae NDP, Harper Conservatives, the flips in BC)...the electorate tends to vote you out. Once you peel back the rhetoric from all sides (as evidenced here) and put them to task on actual leadership issues that would upset larger and influential businesses, they all end up in the same place. The corporation wins, the people are fodder.
    Onward and upward

  75. #175

    Default

    I usually don't consider party ideology when voting. I prefer to examine how much the party cares about where I live and what they are going to do to make it better compared to the rest of the province. I want Edmonton to be treated fairly and have almost never seen that happen under the PC's. The only time the PC's cared about Edmonton was when Stelmach was premier. Even then Stelmach had to fight within his party to make sure Edmonton got fair treatment. Yes, the rebate program for energy efficient renovation products is questionable, but so was Ralph bucks. If I renovate my home this summer I do plan on taking advantage of the rebate program.

    I never understood why some Edmontonians harp in favour of the PC's in spite of party's almost complete lack of interest in Edmonton.
    Edmonton first, everything else second.

  76. #176

    Default

    NDP is the only party at the moment that seems to have policies to keep Alberta moving, whereas the centrist parties are simply in disarray and the right wing parties seem to be running on a platform of get rid of the NDP, which isn't very inspiring.

    Same issue with almost all of the CPC leadership candidates; most of them had a platform of "only X can get rid of Trudeau!" as if that's a compelling argument for how that will benefit me if they somehow do so.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  77. #177
    C2E Junkie *
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Edmonton
    Posts
    13,295
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    While I understand your point, mine is simply that I've seen no change
    Onward and upward

  78. #178

    Default

    The government can stimulate . It can create work and build the economy . As a businessman then I need to cater to government and the projects /jobs ... for that's the economic climate given . Those who believe in free market , or those who are self motivated, want pioneer new things are shut out . Alberta's become big government and not so much for small business unless you sell booze and gambling. Why my business has moved to Trump land ...where great minds are able to create

  79. #179

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by champking View Post
    The government can stimulate . It can create work and build the economy . As a businessman then I need to cater to government and the projects /jobs ... for that's the economic climate given . Those who believe in free market , or those who are self motivated, want pioneer new things are shut out . Alberta's become big government and not so much for small business unless you sell booze and gambling. Why my business has moved to Trump land ...where great minds are able to create
    Able to create? Not so sure. Much creation stems from prior government spending. Many business people do not create but instead take the most conventional, seemingly safe route to business and then they all pile on.

    A free market would be interesting but it might be much more volatile and subject the bigger booms and busts. (Subject to debate.) Higher volatility and less government subsidization of losers would cause even more volatility plus it would likely raise the costs of business, the cost of capital, etc. (Think 1700s, 1800s Europe.) Interest rates might rise as risk increased instead of staying flat or even falling. There may be no things like ZIRP (a private mandated Fed policy). There may be no social supports and the commensurate stabilizing spending by those millions of people receiving assistance etc. And in and on...

    Here in Alberta, the free market in oil drive down prices. Billions of dollars that were coming into Alberta are no longer landing on our 'shores'. The government is borrowing, borrowing at a much lower spread than businesses could borrow, and it is spending all that it borrows, and thus temporarily making up for the sudden drop in capital. It is thus stabilizing, which by definition is a temporary counterforce.
    Last edited by KC; 01-05-2017 at 07:46 AM.

  80. #180

    Default

    If we don't attract capital, if people aren't willing to invest in the province, then we aren't going to be able to sustain the current lifestyle we lead. Its as simple as that, the NDP can try to hide it by borrowing and wasting on the public sector, but at end of the day, without private capital, without pension funds choosing Alberta over North Dakota or Texas, we simply won't need as many engineers, lawyers, business development specialists, geologists, etc., all high paying, high tax revenue generating, jobs. It then also flows, a few years lagging behind, into the trades, again, high paying, tax revenue generating jobs. For example, without those jobs, we wont be able to afford to pay teachers and doctors some of the highest salaries in North America, you can't just borrow for that endlessly without paying the piper eventually. Everything will need to correct down, its an ugly dirty spiral and the NDP is driving us into it - government lacks money, raises taxes, business investment goes elsewhere, government revenues keep declining. From the company that drilled Leduc number one, they simply aren't choosing Alberta anymore, in large part because tax and regulatory costs no longer make this an attractive investment destination. In a time when we need to be more competitive, the NDP has chosen policies that make us less:

    But it’s another reminder that capital is mobile and that even deeply rooted companies like Imperial don’t have to accept the higher taxes and more regulation imposed by the Alberta and federal government, largely to meet international climate change commitments, if they are out of step with a world of opportunity

    “From a cost standpoint — whether it’s a carbon tax, whether its corporate income tax, municipal tax, revisions to royalties — we look at the cumulative effect and how it affects our competitiveness,” Kruger explained. “At the end of the day, it comes out of our pocket. What you call it doesn’t make much difference. It’s cash in and cash out.

    “I do have concerns about the economic competitiveness of our resource base in Canada, in Alberta, and I think it’s really important that we not only look at ourselves, but how do we compare to other jurisdictions that are competing with us for investment.”
    http://business.financialpost.com/ne...ilsands-growth
    Last edited by moahunter; 01-05-2017 at 09:01 AM.

  81. #181

    Default

    So are you saying that the government should bs etc borrow and spend to support an economy that suddenly collapses? If not, then are you ok with the potential consequences? Such as: spreading job losses, defaults and bankruptcies causing additional defaults and bankruptcies, collapsing asset prices including house prices, etc.

    As for capital, we did attract capital, truly massive amounts of capital. So yes, it would be nice to continue to attract that in perpetuity but that's generally not how the works works. Moreover, that capital expects a return, a positive net return which, just like the debt the province is taking on, is likely a drain on the economy. Out of any foreign infusion of capital we hope to gain net benefits in other areas of the economy. When, say Shell invests here the plan is to recover any capital costs plus a return on that invested capital and as you know, equity demands a higher return than debt. So the question and 'quest' is for our province is an ancillary return on spending either corporate capital injections or government debt injections.

    We also hope to offload risk but minimal final return onto foreign investors while minimizing domestic risk and maximizing domestic return (all in the aim of compounding internal returns and so internal standards of living).

    You are right that everything will have to correct down. We simply don't have a cure for low oil prices, surplus energy resources, uneconomical extraction costs, environmental remediation and mitigation, etc. However we can soften the blow that we set ourselves up for by not preparing for this collapse.

    Companies not choosing Alberta because of taxes and regulations. Wrong. It's a minor influence at this stage.

    Leduc No 1. Corporate tax rates in the 1940s I believe were equal to or higher than today. Deductions and tax flexibility may even have been less generous than today, even with the NDP upping the taxes on large corporations. Small corporations may be far less taxed today than when Leduc #1 was drilled because the NDP has cut their rates. (Taxing the mature profitable businesses and subsidizing the little guys - in recognition that taxes do matter - but not to the degree you are trying to convince us of)

    By the way, you know I've made the case for eliminating all corporate taxes and taking away corporate costs such as pensions and other non-operational costs. . All those costs would be borne by the actual shareholders/owners, employees, government, and the corporation would operate in a purer unhindered less encumbered form.
    Last edited by KC; 01-05-2017 at 10:10 AM.

  82. #182

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Moreover, that capital expects a return, a positive net return which, just like the debt the province is taking on, is likely a drain on the economy.
    I think that's just about the most economically daft thing I have ever read. So, its bad when companies make profits, its better when they lose money? You do realize to get tax, you need a profit? To get investment, you need a profit. Imperial would never have drilled Leduc number 1, if they had no prospect of a profit. As to the "its all bad because its foreign capital" - its not all foreign capital (and even if it is, it gets tax in Alberta if its attracted here, rather than taxed in Dakota, or Texas, or Saudi Arabia). Canada has massive pension funds, they are investing in the US also, because the returns are better there, so Canadian pensioners can retire comfortably. By pricing ourselves out of the market at a time when it is going through a transition, we are losing the investment, we are losing the tax revenue, that revenue is going elsewhere. Its as simple as that.

  83. #183

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by champking View Post
    The government can stimulate . It can create work and build the economy . As a businessman then I need to cater to government and the projects /jobs ... for that's the economic climate given . Those who believe in free market , or those who are self motivated, want pioneer new things are shut out . Alberta's become big government and not so much for small business unless you sell booze and gambling. Why my business has moved to Trump land ...where great minds are able to create
    Able to create? Not so sure. Much creation stems from prior government spending. Many business people do not create but instead take the most conventional, seemingly safe route to business and then they all pile on.

    A free market would be interesting but it might be much more volatile and subject the bigger booms and busts. (Subject to debate.) Higher volatility and less government subsidization of losers would cause even more volatility plus it would likely raise the costs of business, the cost of capital, etc. (Think 1700s, 1800s Europe.) Interest rates might rise as risk increased instead of staying flat or even falling. There may be no things like ZIRP (a private mandated Fed policy). There may be no social supports and the commensurate stabilizing spending by those millions of people receiving assistance etc. And in and on...

    Here in Alberta, the free market in oil drive down prices. Billions of dollars that were coming into Alberta are no longer landing on our 'shores'. The government is borrowing, borrowing at a much lower spread than businesses could borrow, and it is spending all that it borrows, and thus temporarily making up for the sudden drop in capital. It is thus stabilizing, which by definition is a temporary counterforce.
    governments made it that way . Making it so damn expensive to do business. Anyways... Canada can continue nickel and diming. My money's on Trump.

  84. #184

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Moreover, that capital expects a return, a positive net return which, just like the debt the province is taking on, is likely a drain on the economy.
    I think that's just about the most economically daft thing I have ever read. So, its bad when companies make profits, its better when they lose money? You do realize to get tax, you need a profit? To get investment, you need a profit. Imperial would never have drilled Leduc number 1, if they had no prospect of a profit. As to the "its all bad because its foreign capital" - its not all foreign capital (and even if it is, it gets tax in Alberta if its attracted here, rather than taxed in Dakota, or Texas, or Saudi Arabia). Canada has massive pension funds, they are investing in the US also, because the returns are better there, so Canadian pensioners can retire comfortably. By pricing ourselves out of the market at a time when it is going through a transition, we are losing the investment, we are losing the tax revenue, that revenue is going elsewhere. Its as simple as that.
    No it's not simple so please don't be so simplistic in your thinking. You can understand return oninestef capital concepts as well as anyone else.
    Last edited by KC; 01-05-2017 at 10:15 AM.

  85. #185

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Moreover, that capital expects a return, a positive net return which, just like the debt the province is taking on, is likely a drain on the economy.
    I think that's just about the most economically daft thing I have ever read. So, its bad when companies make profits, its better when they lose money? You do realize to get tax, you need a profit? To get investment, you need a profit. Imperial would never have drilled Leduc number 1, if they had no prospect of a profit. As to the "its all bad because its foreign capital" - its not all foreign capital (and even if it is, it gets tax in Alberta if its attracted here, rather than taxed in Dakota, or Texas, or Saudi Arabia). Canada has massive pension funds, they are investing in the US also, because the returns are better there, so Canadian pensioners can retire comfortably. By pricing ourselves out of the market at a time when it is going through a transition, we are losing the investment, we are losing the tax revenue, that revenue is going elsewhere. Its as simple as that.
    No it's not simple so please don't be so simplistic in your thinking. You can understand return oninestef capital concepts as well as anyone else.
    I understand that to get investment in a global economy, such investment generating a ton of tax revenue (from employees, to restaurants they spend on, houses they buy, to contractors, to the profits on the investment itself - withholding taxes if outside Canada, ultimately individual taxes if inside), the ROI has to be sufficient - that will only be the case if government policy is appropriate, as Imperial points out. The idea that capital investment is bad because people make money from it, is probably one of the weakest arguments I have ever read. By your logic, the best place to live is Montana, because nobody invests there other than the US government (ICBM bases) and a few farmers. You should look into what teachers and doctors earn there in that worker paradise the NDP are trying to create in Alberta.
    Last edited by moahunter; 01-05-2017 at 10:30 AM.

  86. #186

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Moreover, that capital expects a return, a positive net return which, just like the debt the province is taking on, is likely a drain on the economy.
    I think that's just about the most economically daft thing I have ever read. So, its bad when companies make profits, its better when they lose money? You do realize to get tax, you need a profit? To get investment, you need a profit. Imperial would never have drilled Leduc number 1, if they had no prospect of a profit. As to the "its all bad because its foreign capital" - its not all foreign capital (and even if it is, it gets tax in Alberta if its attracted here, rather than taxed in Dakota, or Texas, or Saudi Arabia). Canada has massive pension funds, they are investing in the US also, because the returns are better there, so Canadian pensioners can retire comfortably. By pricing ourselves out of the market at a time when it is going through a transition, we are losing the investment, we are losing the tax revenue, that revenue is going elsewhere. Its as simple as that.
    No it's not simple so please don't be so simplistic in your thinking. You can understand return oninestef capital concepts as well as anyone else.
    I understand that to get investment in a global economy, such investment generating a ton of tax revenue (from employees, to restaurants they spend on, houses they buy, to contractors, to the profits on the investment itself - withholding taxes if outside Canada, ultimately individual taxes if inside), the ROI has to be sufficient - that will only be the case if government policy is appropriate, as Imperial points out. The idea that capital investment is bad because people make money from it, is probably one of the weakest arguments I have ever read. By your logic, the best place to live is Montana, because nobody invests there other than the US government (ICBM bases) and a few farmers. You should look into what teachers and doctors earn there in that worker paradise the NDP are trying to create in Alberta.
    I didn't say it was bad. Here's what I said: "Moreover, that capital expects a return, a positive net return which, just like the debt the province is taking on, is likely a drain on the economy. Out of any foreign infusion of capital we hope to gain net benefits in other areas of the economy. When, say Shell invests here the plan is to recover any capital costs plus a return on that invested capital ..."


    I said they expect a return on and of their capital investment. That drain occurred for decades. If it's a sound and fortunate investment they get both, if not, well, we may gain from the initial capital investment and ongoing expenditures including taxes. If the investment is successful the net profits leave the province.

    Thus we are reliant on the returns the multiplier effect that capital injections generate and any gains from increasing the velocity of money moving through our economy and on the on going expenditures. We also gain from the sake of our resources, but they are assets so we can only hope that the PB of today's sales is worth more than the PV of deferred sales and that the returns are not wasted on unsustainable spending/investment.

    We loose when kamikaze invest behaviour causes domestic over production / excess capacity and drives down our export prices (think heavy crude without processing or pipeline capacity). How did that free for all development work out for us? It created unsustainable growth that offloads a lot of costs onto the non-corporate and non-resource corporate taxpayers.
    Last edited by KC; 01-05-2017 at 04:02 PM.

  87. #187

    Default

    The Notley government's failure to reform the child welfare system in this province is shameful. I defy you to listen to this: http://www.canadalandshow.com/podcast/illegal-print-names-albertas-lost-children/ and square it with this: http://edmontonjournal.com/news/poli...-was-assaulted.

    Here is the contact information for Minister Danielle Larivee: https://www.assembly.ab.ca/net/index...mber=02&leg=29

  88. #188
    C2E Hard Core Contributor
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Edmonton
    Posts
    2,415

    Default

    ^Are you aware that the children in the home are their biological children, not foster children?

    Children are not removed from their parents' home without cause or due process.

    Nor have any criminal charges been laid against the kinship care parents, so in the eyes of the law the assaults against Serenity are still alleged not proven.

    Oh I forgot. The parents have already been convicted in the court of Paula Simons. Remove all children from their parental home forthwith. Sarcasm alert.
    Last edited by East McCauley; 10-05-2017 at 05:39 PM. Reason: corrected to clarify legal status of parents

  89. #189
    C2E Hard Core Contributor
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Downtown
    Posts
    3,712

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by East McCauley View Post
    .... in the court of Paula Simons.



    Funny.

    But really...Top_Dawg shudders at the thought.

  90. #190

    Default

    ^Meanwhile a child was abused and died from that abuse and no one has been apprehended. She was in the care of 'someone' and that 'someone' did not care for her as the child would not have been injured. Someone knows something and are not forthcoming in what they know. Meanwhile a child abuser is walking around a free person.
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

  91. #191

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by East McCauley View Post
    ^Are you aware that the children in the home are their biological children, not foster children?

    Children are not removed from their parents' home without cause or due process.

    Nor have any criminal charges been laid against the foster parents, so in the eyes of the law the assaults against Serenity are still alleged not proven.

    Oh I forgot. The parents have already been convicted in the court of Paula Simons. Remove all children from their parental home forthwith. Sarcasm alert.
    So are you suggesting we don't have to worry, because its fine to abuse biological children but not foster children? I hope not - if there is any risk at all, someone has to step in.

  92. #192
    C2E Hard Core Contributor
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Edmonton
    Posts
    2,415

    Default

    ^Of course not. But I'm also cognizant that removing Indigenous children from their parents and placing them in government care has its own sad history of unintended consequences. Same with trial by news media.

  93. #193

    Default

    ^Trinity was in 'Kinship Care' not 'Foster Care'. Kinship Care usually means putting a child in an environment that she/he is used to. Be it cultural/religious etc.
    Rumour has it she was in the care of an indigenous couple who had children of their own. This couple may have been a relative of Trinitiy's or someone the family knew well. If the Kinship carers were on a reserve not sure if it would be Federal social worker or Provincial social workers who would intervene. Usually reserves are under the care of federal governments. Why no one has been apprehended is a complete mystery.



    http://www.humanservices.alberta.ca/...are/14907.html
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

  94. #194
    Forum Administrator *
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Edmonton
    Posts
    2,484
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default

    I moved the Rona conversation to the Federal forum.
    Ow

  95. #195
    C2E Stole my Heart!!!!
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Downtown Edmonton
    Posts
    9,807

    Default

    Thanks!

  96. #196
    C2E Hard Core Contributor
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Edmonton
    Posts
    2,415

    Default

    While the likely merger of the two right wing parties will make the mountain the NDP faces in winning a second term even higher, I still think they have an outside chance for two reasons.

    The first is Rachel Notley's leadership. From her steely and compassionate leadership in the aftermath of the largest evacuation in Canadian history caused by the Fort McMurray wildfire, her staunch defence of Alberta's interests in the Trans-Mountain pipeline expansion debate, and her campaigning skills demonstrated during the 2015 election, a party led by Rachel Notley should never be counted out.

    The second is PC (or is that UC?) arrogance. Jason Kenney actually told Rick Bell of the Calgary Sun on May 4 that "“It doesn’t matter how many lucky breaks the NDP get and it doesn’t matter how successful they are in turning out their base, if we unite free-enterprise voters they’re done. Stick a fork in it.”

    http://www.calgarysun.com/2017/05/04...position-jeers

    Despite losing the 2015 election and being in opposition the past two years, right wingers in Alberta seem to have learned nothing about taking the electorate for granted.

  97. #197

    Default

    A couple more years until the next election. In politics that's a long time. Notely and Jean are likeable enough, Kenney maybe not so much. As for Notleys policies. It could take a while before everyone knows the full impact of how they have worked or not worked. After 40+ years of conservative rule it could take a while for some people to be weaned off of that.
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

  98. #198
    C2E Hard Core Contributor
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Sherwood park
    Posts
    2,288

    Default

    I agree with East McCauley's post. Notley is a composed speaker that is able to make reasoned responses to questions and destroyed the other leaders in the televised debate before the last election. The new party needs to match her skills in their next leader.

  99. #199
    C2E Hard Core Contributor
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Edmonton
    Posts
    3,615

    Default

    Notley sounded very defensive yesterday,at the very least, it might get her to hold back on some of her OTT ideas! Roll on the next election!

  100. #200

    Default Notley learns a hard truth about social licence — it’s not meant to be granted, ever.

    Best to move NEB 2.0 to Ottawa, the very nesting ground of the Owl of Minerva, home seat of all of Canada’s collective wisdom and playpen of lobbyists, party fundraisers, career politicians and every other emblem of judicious disinterest and lack of bias. Ottawa is that tabula rasa spoke of by the philosophers of old, a table naked of every interest and influence. Calgary, by contrast, why Calgary is a bourse, a trading house run by Big Oil, where honour is in exile and fair dealing a forgotten rumour.

    At least that’s how they think on this panel.

    ...

    Notley missed the central point of social licence: its preconditions can never be met, and are not meant to be. It is an obstructionist tactic, designed to forestall and delay, till whatever its target has been become so worn down by process and protest and delay that it is simply taken off the policy table.

    Notley would have had more success chasing a moonbeam than satisfying social licence. In the meantime, for all her honest efforts on this front, how much public help has she been getting from Trudeau. Precious little, if any. He has conferences to attend, dinners to speak at, democratic reforms to jettison, peacekeeping missions to define, cutouts to distribute, and electoral reforms to forget.
    http://news.nationalpost.com/full-co...hats-the-point

    Isn't it depressing, that much of the NEB is being moved out of Alberta, away from the "energy expertise", to Ottawa to remove "bias", but that the infrastructure bank boondoggle, is being put in Toronto, where the "finance expertise" is? The carbon tax has done nothing to appease the rest of Canada, nothing to help with "social license", we are just as hated by the left, as we were before it was implemented.
    Last edited by moahunter; 21-05-2017 at 10:09 AM.

Page 2 of 7 FirstFirst 123456 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •