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Thread: Planet Organic supply chain issues

  1. #1

    Default Planet Organic supply chain issues

    Michael Kalmanovitch at Earth's General Store disputes the notion that Planet Organic is having supplier/delivery problems. According to his suppliers they are not getting paid by PO - cash flow problems?

    http://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/video?clipId=983697


    Either way it doesn't bode well for the shiny new store on Jasper.

  2. #2
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    ^

    Yeah, it has been a supply issue at the Jasper Ave location for more than a couple weeks now. And after the first month of opening, when I would stop in to grab something from the hot plate for dinner because I was in a rush, it would basically be bare...at like 6pm. Not to mention, their prices are sometimes outrageous. There is a protein shake called 'Rumble' that I like...$3 at other retailers, $7 at Planet Organic. Come on man!

    I have basically abandoned going there and taken my business to Loblaw's.

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    Is it called ' Rumble ' because of what it does to the ol' gastro gut system ?

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    ^

    Pain for pleasure!

  5. #5
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    Planet Organic issues are chain-wide, not just at "the shiny new store on Jasper"
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by ajs View Post
    Michael Kalmanovitch at Earth's General Store disputes the notion that Planet Organic is having supplier/delivery problems. According to his suppliers they are not getting paid by PO - cash flow problems?

    http://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/video?clipId=983697


    Either way it doesn't bode well for the shiny new store on Jasper.
    Reading this carefully, it doesn't seem to me to be a dispute about whether there are supplier/delivery problems - there are. I can easily understand how suppliers not getting paid would lead to supplier/delivery problems. The dispute only seems to be about who is to blame for this problem.

    I agree, either way it does not bode well - customers really have very limited patience for this sort of he said/they said stuff and will take their business elsewhere unless it is resolved soon.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Planet Organic issues are chain-wide, not just at "the shiny new store on Jasper"
    But this is the Downtown Retail thread, correct? The Jasper Ave. location is downtown, correct? The loss of a grocer in this portion of downtown would be troublesome, correct? Other participants appear to think this is an issue worthy of comment. If you don't, hold your tongue.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by ajs View Post
    But this is the Downtown Retail thread, correct? The Jasper Ave. location is downtown, correct? The loss of a grocer in this portion of downtown would be troublesome, correct? Other participants appear to think this is an issue worthy of comment. If you don't, hold your tongue.
    No, the Jasper Ave location is in West Oliver. It's closer to Westmount & QMP than Downtown.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Happily ignoring the ignorant rather than getting in a battle of wits with unarmed opponents.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ajs View Post
    But this is the Downtown Retail thread, correct? The Jasper Ave. location is downtown, correct? The loss of a grocer in this portion of downtown would be troublesome, correct? Other participants appear to think this is an issue worthy of comment. If you don't, hold your tongue.
    No, the Jasper Ave location is in West Oliver. It's closer to Westmount & QMP than Downtown.
    Ignoring of course the lower case D I used when describing the location. Keep noodling...

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by ajs View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ajs View Post
    But this is the Downtown Retail thread, correct? The Jasper Ave. location is downtown, correct? The loss of a grocer in this portion of downtown would be troublesome, correct? Other participants appear to think this is an issue worthy of comment. If you don't, hold your tongue.
    No, the Jasper Ave location is in West Oliver. It's closer to Westmount & QMP than Downtown.
    Ignoring of course the lower case D I used when describing the location. Keep noodling...
    Ah yes. I forgot the designation of what is & isn't downtown/Downtown and the terrible semantic arguments that ensue only applies to negative things, like crime stats & the ongoing accelerating flight to the suburbs, not positive things or when someone needs to blur the lines & reach to make a point.

    My bad. Keep on cherrypicking.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Happily ignoring the ignorant rather than getting in a battle of wits with unarmed opponents.

  11. #11

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    Oh thank you benevolent arbiter of all that is C2E right and true. Your munificence is appreciated.

    Didn't you recently get married? There are other places to stick your noodle, you know, other than in C2E's ear. It might improve your disposition.

  12. #12

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    PO's issues are chain-wide.

    "Downtown" is the name of one of the communities in Edmonton as defined by the City. "Oliver" is another one.

    Nowhere in the links provided can I see any mention that one of PO's competitors said anything about their supply chain.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  13. #13

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    Another classic C2E blowhard who can't help themselves. It's like a compulsion with you knobs.

    I guess where Michael writes "Several of our suppliers will not ship to Planet Organic because they were not being paid." is not a supply chain issue.

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by ajs View Post
    I guess where Michael writes "Several of our suppliers will not ship to Planet Organic because they were not being paid." is not a supply chain issue.
    Yes he does, in a post from over 2 weeks ago, which the original poster neglected to mention.
    I feel in no way entitled to your opinion...

  15. #15

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    Fine, call me Facebook challenged, but I didn't see it.

    But no, it's still not specific to one branch.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  16. #16

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    Is it some kind of secret handshake with you (...)? Is there a wood panelled C2E lounge where you take turns farting into brass spitoons and inhale a big snoutfull of yourselves?
    Last edited by Admin; 17-11-2016 at 08:03 AM. Reason: removed expletive

  17. #17

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    ^ if you can't make a point without personal attacks, you don't have a point.

    P.O.'s issues are chain wide, watch the video you linked.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  18. #18

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    No where did I ever write that the Jasper ave. location was the only one in some kind of trouble. That was one of your club members SDM who took offence that I referred to it as "shiny".

    Other than the original respondents (Ausenik, Dave, TD) the rest of you have exactly zippo to offer except flashing your easily offended, delicate sensibilities and your bizarre compulsion to comment on something innocuous and apparently meaningless for you anyway. How utterly powerless you must all be in your offline existence.

  19. #19

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    ^ easily offended? You're telling me?



    I was just responding that the two things I outlined were fair points, and that I still haven't seen where Michael K said what you said he said (and Spudly confirmed.) Nobody is attacking you.

    I've seen the PO on Jasper and I think it's maybe the nicest grocery store in the city for its interiors, so I'd be sad to see it go, but I don't actually shop there.

    Are the suppliers not being paid? Would make sense as to why they're not delivering anything. Could also just be hearsay from a trucker or a small local. edit - Clearly it's only certain parts of the shelves that are empty.

    If not, why not? I don't know. Could be a range of things from cash flow to software glitches to human errors to tripping up getting replacement suppliers to coincide with the ending of other contracts.

    What else would you like me to say? The only thing that's clear is that it's chain wide (which, yes, includes the store on Jasper.)
    Last edited by JayBee; 16-11-2016 at 04:30 PM.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  20. #20

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    Here's a radical idea - how about saying nothing at all? Decide that you don't care about the topic and move on. But goodness no, I mean, what would we all do without some member of the C2E fart-sniffers offering their gold plated opinions. This place would be a shambles, I say, an absolute shambles.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ajs View Post
    Is it some kind of secret handshake with you (...)? Is there a wood panelled C2E lounge where you take turns farting into brass spitoons and inhale a big snoutfull of yourselves?



    Cask & Barrel.

  22. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by ajs View Post
    Here's a radical idea - how about saying nothing at all? Decide that you don't care about the topic and move on. But goodness no, I mean, what would we all do without some member of the C2E fart-sniffers offering their gold plated opinions. This place would be a shambles, I say, an absolute shambles.
    Quoted in its entirety to immortalize a platinum-plated example of "do as I say, not as I do."
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Happily ignoring the ignorant rather than getting in a battle of wits with unarmed opponents.

  23. #23

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    Immortality bestowed as only the Grand PooBah of the C2E Fart-Sniffers can. I'm humbled.

  24. #24

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    ajs has recently become my second favorite poster here at the good ole C2E. Keep up the good work buddy.

    noodle, you know you're still #1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8wrIgbiCgs

  25. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
    I was just responding that the two things I outlined were fair points, and that I still haven't seen where Michael K said what you said he said (and Spudly confirmed.)
    It's the November 1 post on the FB page.
    I feel in no way entitled to your opinion...

  26. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
    I was just responding that the two things I outlined were fair points, and that I still haven't seen where Michael K said what you said he said (and Spudly confirmed.)
    It's the November 1 post on the FB page.

    Thanks, I don't use Facebook. Don't know how to find things there.

    Quoted for whatever relevance:

    Earth's General Store
    November 1 at 9:15am ·
    Someone made a post on a page about the situation at Planet Organic and I thought I would add our take on the recent television article on their situation.
    We have heard stories about this for a while now. Several of our suppliers will not ship to Planet Organic because they were not being paid. These were small independent local businesses that are taking a financial hit because Planet Organic is having a cash flow problem.
    I noticed that they are saying it is a supply problem but we purchase from many of the same suppliers as they do and our shelves are full. My thinking is that they are having serious cash flow problems.
    I feel sorry for the front line staff and the people that are not being serviced with good organic food in a location that works for those customers.
    I still think there's too little to immediately suspect cash flow problems.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  27. #27

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    It's a cash flow problem. My god. Stop being so stubborn Jaybee. Just admit you are challenged and move on.

  28. #28

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    lol.

    Okay meds, tell us everything you know about the retail industry.

    Let's make Edmonton better.

  29. #29

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    I'll save the know-it-all business for you champ. You clearly know-it-all.

  30. #30

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    Great.

    So then I say we wait for some more solid info than a competitor's speculation.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  31. #31

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    Like this?

    Edmonton bakers stop supplying Planet Organic, alleging bills are outstanding

    GORDON KENT


    The operators of two Edmonton bakeries say they’ve stopped supplying products to the local Planet Organic stores because they claim they aren’t being paid on time.

    Csaba Nemeth, who co-owns Breadland Organic Whole Grain Bakery, says he cut off deliveries of buns, bread, pizza shells and other items to the two grocery outlets about 1 1/2 months ago when he was allegedly owed more than $27,000 for invoices dating as early as last March.

    Although most of the outstanding amount has since been paid, Nemeth claimed his four-person operation is still owed about $7,500.
    http://edmontonjournal.com/news/loca...re-outstanding

    Which still doesn't tell us the internal issues at PO.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  32. #32

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    Yeah, I'm going with cash flow, which has resulted in xyz problems.

  33. #33

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    ^ it's possible, but software glitch, new trainee in payments department and other things are possible too. The article did say $20,000 now has been paid (late) so there's cash flowing, albeit haltingly.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

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    I've asked the admin/moderator/whoever-is-in-charge-of-this-eff-all to move the Planet Organic discussion to a separate thread since it's not an issue specific to the downtown-ish location.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    When an established business starts to experience issues with stocking their shelves and it's rumoured to be related to suppliers not being paid, I find it difficult to believe that it's associated with a computer 'glitch' or whatever. This isn't a good sign imo.

  36. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisD View Post
    When an established business starts to experience issues with stocking their shelves and it's rumoured to be related to suppliers not being paid, I find it difficult to believe that it's associated with a computer 'glitch' or whatever. This isn't a good sign imo.
    Did somebody say "It's a computer glitch"???

    No, and nobody who knows said it was a cash flow issue either.

    One thing for sure is it isn't a good sign either way.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

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    I don't think people have the money. I'm thinking they will declare bankruptcy. How sad if they do.

  38. #38

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    Wow. Several of you seem intent on sinking this business though innuendo and assumption about someone's observation.

    What ever happened to supporting our economy and its businesses and 'staying mum' until some actual facts are available? No wonder no one wants to be entrepreneurial in this city. Whatever they say or do, or even don't do, will be used against them.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Wow. Several of you seem intent on sinking this business though innuendo and assumption about someone's observation.

    What ever happened to supporting our economy and its businesses and 'staying mum' until some actual facts are available? No wonder no one wants to be entrepreneurial in this city. Whatever they say or do, or even don't do, will be used against them.
    Kind of ridiculous. How does one support a business that has limited stock on shelves? From the descriptions this is becoming the Organic equivalent of Canada Target stores. People go to stores to shop. Find a store that has virtually nothing in stock and they will take their business elsewhere, quickly, and often with 1,2 trial learning involved.

    Obviously this is a huge problem and not on consumer side. Not sure how an operation that overcharges for everything has difficulty with being able to pay suppliers. Maybe we're seeing a business that just isn't sustainable in a recession.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  41. #41

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    ^ This is Canada wide. Wouldn't exactly call Victoria, Vancouver, Toronto markets as recession markets....

    News outlets are only picking up on this now, but shelves have been empty for over a month now at some places.

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    ^Well, other than real estate its not clear whats firing those markets and even those are showing cracks. Which the upticks in mortgage rates won't help. Which isn't something I'm against, its due.

    What exactly is making those economies other than foreign real estate investment and speculation? I don't think that's a firm basis for riding out a recession.

    Maybe people are reconsidering paying 2-3 times for something because it has an unsubstantiated organic tag on it.

    The only way to know you're getting organic is growing it yourself.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  43. #43

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    I tend to agree Replacement. Recession or not, between exorbitant pricing and limited selection, a store cannot keep questions, concerns, or innuendo at bay when they fail to meet expectations. Consumers expect a certain level of service for the price, and are very unforgiving when it is a premium store charging premium pricing yet not delivering premium service/execution. That store will find that perception is reality, and if they perceive issues and poor service, people will vote with their wallet and start discussing amongst their fellow consumers. It is why the cliché of the customer is #1 or is always right is actually a powerful moniker to live by in retail.

    @JayBee, I don't know why you went after ChrisD like that. It was you that referenced a potential computer glitch in post #19, and added some other possible issues. You again reference it in post #33. Chris then speaks to the assumption of the software issue aka computer glitch, and then you ask who mentioned anything to do with software or other issues? I'm confused. From personal experience, A/P payment terms, dunning runs, improper vendor master set up, complex contracts, issues between supply chain and the financial/banking components can cause net 15/30 payments to either be delayed, or EDI et al exchange mapping can delay EFT...so plausible. It could also be plausible (yet unlikely) that this organization has decided to arbitrarily change its terms from Net 30 to Net 120. I saw that at a major manufacturer who was once #1 then became a shell of itself...due to many reasons. Its last gasp was to reduce payment terms to keep cash as long as possible, the vendors and customers rebelled, and this manufacturer is no more. Chris takes it from his world, and I would tend to agree, that software issues are most likely not the culprit in these situations, and I can attest that the issues I described above are few and far between...in fact I can only attest to 2 clients out of several that had the issue and one was programming in the links in the old VAX world, and the other was malfeasance in the SAP Supply Chain employee world. The rest...pure cash flow and the product(s) not being accepted by the market for whatever reason. So, again, why slap Chris for only contributing to the potential causes that you brought up in the first place?

    @ajs. I get the C2E "filter bubble" or "group think" aspect as I run into it too. However, do we need to delve into vulgarity? You could have said the same thing, and been as forceful, without being crude. Just my 2 cents. Also, the way to break any filter bubble is to have alternate opinions expressed. So, and this is just my opinion, expressing them in a way that removes any possible reaction due to the choice of words forces people to actually then read the words and get the intent.
    Onward and upward

  44. #44

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    Given how meddlesome Health Canada is in regards to vegetarian/vegan food (thanks to psueudoscience backed by ranchers & animal farmer lobby groups) this could be a similar case to Target Canada. They're owned by an American firm now & if that firm tried to align their Canadian & American supply chains only to be thwarted by the regulations & other differences it could lead to a cascade effect much like what we're seeing. It could just be incompetence or ignorance rather than a financial meltdown that's causing the issues in keeping suppliers paid & shelves full.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Happily ignoring the ignorant rather than getting in a battle of wits with unarmed opponents.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Maybe people are reconsidering paying 2-3 times for something because it has an unsubstantiated organic tag on it.



    Yeah, Top_Dawg never understood this infatuation with ' organic '.

    It's like that whole pet rock craze.

    Bizarre.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Dawg View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Maybe people are reconsidering paying 2-3 times for something because it has an unsubstantiated organic tag on it.



    Yeah, Top_Dawg never understood this infatuation with ' organic '.

    It's like that whole pet rock craze.

    Bizarre.
    Required reading. heh

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/henrymil.../#51352faf38e4


    As long as people know they're paying 2-3 times extra for an organic tag and label type snootery.



    I wonder if anybody misses Sobeys and their organic window dressings..
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

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    Quote Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisD View Post
    When an established business starts to experience issues with stocking their shelves and it's rumoured to be related to suppliers not being paid, I find it difficult to believe that it's associated with a computer 'glitch' or whatever. This isn't a good sign imo.
    Did somebody say "It's a computer glitch"???

    No, and nobody who knows said it was a cash flow issue either.

    One thing for sure is it isn't a good sign either way.
    No, its a horrible sign, small businesses are having a tough time under the NDP.
    Last edited by hello lady; 17-11-2016 at 12:39 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Wow. Several of you seem intent on sinking this business though innuendo and assumption about someone's observation.

    What ever happened to supporting our economy and its businesses and 'staying mum' until some actual facts are available? No wonder no one wants to be entrepreneurial in this city. Whatever they say or do, or even don't do, will be used against them.
    Whoa!I have supported them..!For years!Even that tiny place that grew near 124tth..They have raised their prices,like a lot of other businesses to compete with salary increases by the NDP, and because of the carbon tax thats coming You think this is bad, wait, watch and learn what the ndp do to this province, and the feds and this mayor!! Look around you,.if you think someone is going to buy an organic lettuce when they are struggling with a mortgage payment, guess what wins and who suffers.
    Last edited by hello lady; 17-11-2016 at 12:42 PM.

  50. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by hello lady View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Wow. Several of you seem intent on sinking this business though innuendo and assumption about someone's observation.

    What ever happened to supporting our economy and its businesses and 'staying mum' until some actual facts are available? No wonder no one wants to be entrepreneurial in this city. Whatever they say or do, or even don't do, will be used against them.
    Whoa!I have supported them..!For years!Even that tiny place that grew near 124tth..They have raised their prices,like a lot of other businesses to compete with salary increases by the NDP, and because of the carbon tax thats coming You think this is bad, wait, watch and learn what the ndp do to this province, and the feds and this mayor!! Look around you,.if you think someone is going to buy an organic lettuce when they are struggling with a mortgage payment, guess what wins and who suffers.
    I'm surprised you didn't blame Obama and Trump yet either. Planet Organic is having issues chain-wide. Their American parent company just recently close three stores in the states. Since we are all jumping to conclusions, I'm saying this has less to do with economics and politics but more-so a matter of a company unable to keep up with the consumer trend -- and perhaps consumers are realizing that until the term "organic" is regulated, almost absolutely anything can be labelled organic.

  51. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Dawg View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Maybe people are reconsidering paying 2-3 times for something because it has an unsubstantiated organic tag on it.



    Yeah, Top_Dawg never understood this infatuation with ' organic '.

    It's like that whole pet rock craze.

    Bizarre.
    I remember the urban fair in crestwood, which would charge two to three times as much as a regular supermarket for identical product. Even rich people will only take so much crap (unless they live in Vancouver where snobbery is more important than value for money).

    I think planet organic is in a tough spot because people are cutting out luxuries, and more and more regular supermarkets are carrying organic items. I hope they survive, but the signs per this thread look terminal.

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    Is that Urban Fare gone ?

    Top_Dawg never even noticed.

    How long ago did that happen ?

  53. #53

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    ...at least a decade. I left Parkview soon after...for other reasons.
    Onward and upward

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    Quote Originally Posted by B.ike View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hello lady View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Wow. Several of you seem intent on sinking this business though innuendo and assumption about someone's observation.

    What ever happened to supporting our economy and its businesses and 'staying mum' until some actual facts are available? No wonder no one wants to be entrepreneurial in this city. Whatever they say or do, or even don't do, will be used against them.
    Whoa!I have supported them..!For years!Even that tiny place that grew near 124tth..They have raised their prices,like a lot of other businesses to compete with salary increases by the NDP, and because of the carbon tax thats coming You think this is bad, wait, watch and learn what the ndp do to this province, and the feds and this mayor!! Look around you,.if you think someone is going to buy an organic lettuce when they are struggling with a mortgage payment, guess what wins and who suffers.
    I'm surprised you didn't blame Obama and Trump yet either. Planet Organic is having issues chain-wide. Their American parent company just recently close three stores in the states. Since we are all jumping to conclusions, I'm saying this has less to do with economics and politics but more-so a matter of a company unable to keep up with the consumer trend -- and perhaps consumers are realizing that until the term "organic" is regulated, almost absolutely anything can be labelled organic.
    It is all Trudeau's fault
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  56. #56

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    They may have to sacrifice their new Ellerslie Crossing location?
    I feel in no way entitled to your opinion...

  57. #57

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    I guess we should blame the Harper administration, Prentice, Redford...heck with some here we may as well blame Lougheed and Manning...
    Onward and upward

  58. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by B.ike View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hello lady View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Wow. Several of you seem intent on sinking this business though innuendo and assumption about someone's observation.

    What ever happened to supporting our economy and its businesses and 'staying mum' until some actual facts are available? No wonder no one wants to be entrepreneurial in this city. Whatever they say or do, or even don't do, will be used against them.
    Whoa!I have supported them..!For years!Even that tiny place that grew near 124tth..They have raised their prices,like a lot of other businesses to compete with salary increases by the NDP, and because of the carbon tax thats coming You think this is bad, wait, watch and learn what the ndp do to this province, and the feds and this mayor!! Look around you,.if you think someone is going to buy an organic lettuce when they are struggling with a mortgage payment, guess what wins and who suffers.
    I'm surprised you didn't blame Obama and Trump yet either. Planet Organic is having issues chain-wide. Their American parent company just recently close three stores in the states. Since we are all jumping to conclusions, I'm saying this has less to do with economics and politics but more-so a matter of a company unable to keep up with the consumer trend -- and perhaps consumers are realizing that until the term "organic" is regulated, almost absolutely anything can be labelled organic.
    So you kick them when they are down?

    Almost all small businesses, and many larger businesses, face tough times and unforeseen business issues. (Most businesses fail eventually.) and there's always a domino effect hitting workers, suppliers, shareholders, etc. However, many come through their tough times with few knowing about it. Retail though must be brutal. Think of all the failing businesses with huge outstanding debts right now, but no media business is interviewing their suppliers or writing stories about them that create a domino effect pushing them into bankruptcy as everyone piles on and criticizes the whole endeavour.


    For example hamburgers are hamburgers, steaks are steaks, etc. but I've long encountered people that proclaim this or that place is "the best" or "the worst" and if you ask why, it's usually some some subjective determinant more to do with the customer than the food. I've always wondered how many potentially great businesses fail because some whinny hypercritical customer spreads their opinion far and wide.

    On "organic" yes, a lot of bs there, but there's tons of bs surrounding near everything else: wine, beer, cars, smartphones, countertops (why exactly is granite so wonderful)... There's fads involved in consumer products that come and go, and then come back again and again.
    Last edited by KC; 17-11-2016 at 02:30 PM.

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by B.ike View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hello lady View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Wow. Several of you seem intent on sinking this business though innuendo and assumption about someone's observation.

    What ever happened to supporting our economy and its businesses and 'staying mum' until some actual facts are available? No wonder no one wants to be entrepreneurial in this city. Whatever they say or do, or even don't do, will be used against them.
    Whoa!I have supported them..!For years!Even that tiny place that grew near 124tth..They have raised their prices,like a lot of other businesses to compete with salary increases by the NDP, and because of the carbon tax thats coming You think this is bad, wait, watch and learn what the ndp do to this province, and the feds and this mayor!! Look around you,.if you think someone is going to buy an organic lettuce when they are struggling with a mortgage payment, guess what wins and who suffers.
    I'm surprised you didn't blame Obama and Trump yet either. Planet Organic is having issues chain-wide. Their American parent company just recently close three stores in the states. Since we are all jumping to conclusions, I'm saying this has less to do with economics and politics but more-so a matter of a company unable to keep up with the consumer trend -- and perhaps consumers are realizing that until the term "organic" is regulated, almost absolutely anything can be labelled organic.

    well I know a couple of businesses on 124th that are struggling. What excuse will you use if they close..no, it couldn't be what the NDP put in place. As for running from pumpkin seeds Trudeau, he's far more interested in hob nobbing than ever looking at Canada's economy..and you wonder why Trump won? Ha!

  60. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by hello lady View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by B.ike View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hello lady View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Wow. Several of you seem intent on sinking this business though innuendo and assumption about someone's observation.

    What ever happened to supporting our economy and its businesses and 'staying mum' until some actual facts are available? No wonder no one wants to be entrepreneurial in this city. Whatever they say or do, or even don't do, will be used against them.
    Whoa!I have supported them..!For years!Even that tiny place that grew near 124tth..They have raised their prices,like a lot of other businesses to compete with salary increases by the NDP, and because of the carbon tax thats coming You think this is bad, wait, watch and learn what the ndp do to this province, and the feds and this mayor!! Look around you,.if you think someone is going to buy an organic lettuce when they are struggling with a mortgage payment, guess what wins and who suffers.
    I'm surprised you didn't blame Obama and Trump yet either. Planet Organic is having issues chain-wide. Their American parent company just recently close three stores in the states. Since we are all jumping to conclusions, I'm saying this has less to do with economics and politics but more-so a matter of a company unable to keep up with the consumer trend -- and perhaps consumers are realizing that until the term "organic" is regulated, almost absolutely anything can be labelled organic.

    well I know a couple of businesses on 124th that are struggling. What excuse will you use if they close..no, it couldn't be what the NDP put in place. As for running from pumpkin seeds Trudeau, he's far more interested in hob nobbing than ever looking at Canada's economy..and you wonder why Trump won? Ha!
    What the NDP are doing hasn't really hit yet. The blame falls on the private sector that is laying off people and cutting back on projects because of low oil prices. The NDPs higher corporate taxes are only hitting profitable companies and those tax revenues are being spent. (Possibly keeping more money in Alberta than otherwise would be the case.)

    Moreover the NDP are borrowing billions and spending it to make up for the lack of money coming into Alberta. Much of the economic strength we have right now is due to the NDP's attempts to straddle the receiving or create a soft landing.

    BTW I've argued about eliminating the corporate tax. Would love to have your input on that thread.

  61. #61
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    I would like to see more large businesses see us as friendly and stay. Have you ever gotten a job from a poor man?

    As far as Notley, you need to ask at a time like this, why upping wages has lead to split shifts and lay offs. It will get worse when we have the carbon tax. Notley is making this province into something it isn't. I dispise the NDP.

  62. #62

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    ^agreed. ^^no, capital decisions are made not only based on the tax rate, energy costs, rules and regulations and labor costs, today, but also what has been announced is coming down the track. When nobody understands it, like now with energy / utility costs, nobody invests, and the jobs that need that investment head to more business friendly states. There are a number of oil sands expansions that would be ramping up now at these oil prices, but for the poorly thought out turmoil the NDP the has caused. Who would have guessed that a bunch of Ottawa Chardonnay socialists advising Notley wouldn't have a clue, or a care, re our economy?
    Last edited by moahunter; 17-11-2016 at 02:50 PM.

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^agreed. ^^no, capital decisions are made not only based on the tax rate, energy costs, rules and regulations and labor costs, today, but also what has been announced is coming down the track. When nobody understands it, like now with energy / utility costs, nobody invests, and the jobs that need that investment head to more business friendly states. There are a number of oil sands expansions that would be ramping up now at these oil prices, but for the poorly thought out turmoil the NDP the has caused. Who would have guessed that a bunch of Ottawa Chardonnay socialists advising Notley wouldn't have a clue, or a care, re our economy?
    Bingo Moa, I wish the like button was available.

  64. #64

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    The turmoil is mostly imaginary. Other than the ditch-coal bit, there really isn't any uncertainty. Carbon tax is fixed. Minimum wage is set, and changes do far have minimal effect, although we'll see when the full $15 is phased in.

    There are people here who were blaming the NDP for long-standing problems within weeks of their election. It's not.

    Although. Maybe I've discovered that there is some truth to the conservative mantra that a left-leaning government makes people entitles and incapable of dealing with their own problems. It's not the policies, though. It's the very existence of a left-ish government that suddenly makes people so dependent on the government's management of the economy, at least in their own minds.
    There can only be one.

  65. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by hello lady View Post
    well I know a couple of businesses on 124th that are struggling. What excuse will you use if they close..no, it couldn't be what the NDP put in place. As for running from pumpkin seeds Trudeau, he's far more interested in hob nobbing than ever looking at Canada's economy..and you wonder why Trump won? Ha!
    Ok I'll bite. (sorry this no longer even pertains to the topic anymore)

    1) This thread is about Planet Organic and as pointed out, this appears to be mismanagement from the very top. The American parent company is closing stores in the States (the country with arguably the strongest economy on this planet right now). So I don't understand how taking the opportunity to drag the NDP into this has any merit.


    2) Although I am fairly young, I still lived through the last grim period of the 1990s. Period of high unemployment. Store and restaurants were closing every week and downtown was a ghost town. Crime rate was high. There was absolutely no investment into Edmonton or Alberta for that matter. Public infrastructure was crumbling, schools and hospitals were being closed. What excuse was used when all these mom-n-pop stores/restaurants were closing down....Heck the first few years of the 90s, we had PCs in power both federally and provincially. In fact back then, environmental laws were no where near what they are now and industry safety standards were only starting to catch up. So with the lack of red tape and low-tax-conservative-regime, where was the investment? Why was Alberta suffering? Must be the NDP.


    3) I also know businesses on 124th Street that are thriving. I can see the connection you're trying to create, but you can't cherry pick things and try to mold them into your prejudice.
    I mean I can cherry pick the successful businesses on 124th and attribute that to the NDP policy - they've raised wages, kept the public sector in place and those same people are spending more money along 124th street so certain businesses are reaping the benefits. Yes that reeks of ********. But your argument does too by the same token.


    4) Maybe...just maybe this recession is helping Alberta companies become more efficient. After sifting through the earnings sheet, Suncor basically made $200 million in profit last quarter. Companies were getting so bloated and inefficient from the oil bubble that it was not sustainable. Now all the oil companies have leaned and retained only the necessary personnel to run a profitable business. Doesn't mean they stop hiring in the near future, but it can mean more comparable wages to the rest of Canada and not oil-inflated salaries.



    And while I'm picking a fight, trickle-down-economies have never really shown much tangible benefits to those at the bottom. In fact lowering taxes has created the corporate environment we as a world are going into.

  66. #66
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    Nicely posted . I think #4 is hogwash though.

    http://www.calgarysun.com/2016/06/07...dimed-to-death

  67. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by hello lady View Post
    Nicely posted . I think #4 is hogwash though.

    http://www.calgarysun.com/2016/06/07...dimed-to-death
    A quote from that article.


    Now, why on earth did the city of Calgary's property taxes rise to the levels they are at today? Because of the NDP?




    'Nickel and dimed to death': Small Calgary businesses close shop under weight of taxes, operating costs and economic slump



    On Wednesday, Adele Stevens will be at city hall appealing her $45,000 property tax bill, which just two years ago was a much more manageable $22,000.




    http://www.calgarysun.com/2016/06/07...dimed-to-death

    Well, apparently yes:



    The Alberta government adjusts its property tax rate on a provincewide basis, and this year that works out to a 10.2 per cent increase for residences and 4.6 per cent for non-residential properties, Calgary’s top financial officer revealed at Monday’s council meeting.

    ...

    On the typical Calgary house, that would mean an additional $169.80 hit to the wallet this year.

    Non-residential tax bills are going up 3.8 per cent.
    ...
    http://calgaryherald.com/news/local-...f-property-tax


    more:


    Why Calgary's property taxes are skyrocketing

    https://www.fraserinstitute.org/arti...e-skyrocketing
    Last edited by KC; 17-11-2016 at 04:01 PM.

  68. #68
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    What a bunch of BS in that article. The majority of what Brian Browning cited (minimum wage, CPP, EI) hadn't even taken effect when he shut his doors.

  69. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    What a bunch of BS in that article. The majority of what Brian Browning cited (minimum wage, CPP, EI) hadn't even taken effect when he shut his doors.
    You know it is a level playing field - ALL businesses have to pay minimum wage, CPP and EI, whatever the rates happen to be. In challenging economic times, customers are looking for good prices and reasonable service more than ever. Those businesses that can figure that out and adjust their products and services accordingly will survive, those that can't will not. My guess here is that this US based chain may not be nimble enough to understand or adapt to the quickly changed Alberta economic environment.

  70. #70

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    Being chief cook and bottle washer I don't go out of my way to buy organic. In fact I get annoyed at food companies that stick this label on just about everything even if the 'organic' part of the product is only %2 of the product. I notice this a lot at Costco as they seem to carry brands that other stores do not. If there is an equivalent product at a lesser price then I will buy the latter. That is brand names as I tend not to buy generic unless it's something like plastic sandwich bags or table napkins. I guess some people who buy organic say it tastes better than none organic but that is a matter of opinion. I can see someone who is highly allergic to pesticides etc eating organically. Other than that the majority of people trying to cut corners on groceries will not shop at higher prices places if they can get the same produce for less elsewhere, organic or not.
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

  71. #71

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    As an example of how hard it can be to get American vegetarian/vegan/organic stuff across the border, here is a link to the craziness one manufacturer had to go through after one of their Canadian competitors called them out for non-compliance with regulations founded on pseudoscience.

    (How I miss their hotdogs & the original formulations they were forced to stop selling in Canada.)
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Happily ignoring the ignorant rather than getting in a battle of wits with unarmed opponents.

  72. #72

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    Apparently there is now organic Gatorade because the sugar cane they use in it will be organic. It's not lowing the sugar content just it's now organic. Give me a break, who cares.
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

  73. #73
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    Where Gems ?

    Top_Dawg just has to run out and buy himself some.

  74. #74

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    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/03/bu...g-organic.html

    ^Coming to a store near you.....................
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

  75. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by B.ike View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hello lady View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Wow. Several of you seem intent on sinking this business though innuendo and assumption about someone's observation.

    What ever happened to supporting our economy and its businesses and 'staying mum' until some actual facts are available? No wonder no one wants to be entrepreneurial in this city. Whatever they say or do, or even don't do, will be used against them.
    Whoa!I have supported them..!For years!Even that tiny place that grew near 124tth..They have raised their prices,like a lot of other businesses to compete with salary increases by the NDP, and because of the carbon tax thats coming You think this is bad, wait, watch and learn what the ndp do to this province, and the feds and this mayor!! Look around you,.if you think someone is going to buy an organic lettuce when they are struggling with a mortgage payment, guess what wins and who suffers.
    I'm surprised you didn't blame Obama and Trump yet either. Planet Organic is having issues chain-wide. Their American parent company just recently close three stores in the states. Since we are all jumping to conclusions, I'm saying this has less to do with economics and politics but more-so a matter of a company unable to keep up with the consumer trend -- and perhaps consumers are realizing that until the term "organic" is regulated, almost absolutely anything can be labelled organic.
    It is all Trudeau's fault
    Absolutely bang on.

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/03/bu...g-organic.html

    ^Coming to a store near you.....................

    Triple The Price..

  77. #77

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    Quote Originally Posted by stunkermann View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by B.ike View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hello lady View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Wow. Several of you seem intent on sinking this business though innuendo and assumption about someone's observation.

    What ever happened to supporting our economy and its businesses and 'staying mum' until some actual facts are available? No wonder no one wants to be entrepreneurial in this city. Whatever they say or do, or even don't do, will be used against them.
    Whoa!I have supported them..!For years!Even that tiny place that grew near 124tth..They have raised their prices,like a lot of other businesses to compete with salary increases by the NDP, and because of the carbon tax thats coming You think this is bad, wait, watch and learn what the ndp do to this province, and the feds and this mayor!! Look around you,.if you think someone is going to buy an organic lettuce when they are struggling with a mortgage payment, guess what wins and who suffers.
    I'm surprised you didn't blame Obama and Trump yet either. Planet Organic is having issues chain-wide. Their American parent company just recently close three stores in the states. Since we are all jumping to conclusions, I'm saying this has less to do with economics and politics but more-so a matter of a company unable to keep up with the consumer trend -- and perhaps consumers are realizing that until the term "organic" is regulated, almost absolutely anything can be labelled organic.
    It is all Trudeau's fault
    Absolutely bang on.
    It's kind of funny how it is never the businesses fault (at least according to the business). There is a well known grocery chain (not organic) that jacked up prices a lot over the last few years - well eventually their sales started to fall along with their profit. Of course they blamed "the weak economy in western Canada". However, one of their competitors that resisted the urge to raise prices just announced higher sales and higher profits (this was after they actually cut their prices). Gouging customers is not good business, but in boom times it seemed to become a popular practice for some businesses to temporarily boost profits. Now those businesses are getting bitten back by for it.

  78. #78

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    jesus christ... this thread is a mess. Just... I don't know what to say... Some people just need to go outside and take a break from the internet and their facebook right-wing/left-wing echo chambers. Some of you need to learn how to vet your sources. P.O. issues are completely self constructed due to management. I can't and won't say who I know or what info I've got because that is inappropriate to say. The info is out there if you want to search hard enough and we are starting to see it filtering out now. I am surprised it took this long for the ship to finally 'iceberg' it.

  79. #79
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    Ya for sure. Walmart, Superstore and Costco seem to be doing fine. I feel like I've been taken advantage of price wise at just about any other store.( except for sale items)
    Last edited by Drumbones; 18-11-2016 at 03:05 AM.

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by hello lady View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/03/bu...g-organic.html

    ^Coming to a store near you.....................

    Triple The Price..
    It's PepsiCo. The ones that admit their Aquafina water is just tap water while at the same time cheaper waters are natural spring, from High River or Hope BC. Be sure to check your labels.

  81. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by LoebsPeugot208 View Post
    jesus christ... this thread is a mess. Just... I don't know what to say... Some people just need to go outside and take a break from the internet and their facebook right-wing/left-wing echo chambers. Some of you need to learn how to vet your sources. P.O. issues are completely self constructed due to management. I can't and won't say who I know or what info I've got because that is inappropriate to say. The info is out there if you want to search hard enough and we are starting to see it filtering out now. I am surprised it took this long for the ship to finally 'iceberg' it.
    We're not investigative journalists with insider knowledge, so we all speculate based on one or two observations or news articles.

    My position is that we need to support jobs and businesses in Edmonton to stabilize our economy and not drive fear into it, so keep speculation considerate of those whose jobs and endeavours may depend on some good luck coming their way.

  82. #82

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    So I went to the Jasper Ave Planet Organic around a week ago, the shelves were full, the produce was full, the meat and bakery items seemed full, and the store was busy despite the howling gale going on outside.

    Someone want to tell me now how much they know about "cash flow issues"?

    Let's make Edmonton better.

  83. #83
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    There was definitely something going on there. They were missing so many different products, that they would have had to be having issues with multiple suppliers, from the baked goods, to produce, to meat, to frozen stuff. I know the owner of a business near their off-Whyte location who stocked some of the same products from the same suppliers, and she said she didn't have any issues getting her stuff.

    Anyway, I'm glad to see that they've worked things out and have products on their shelves now.
    They're going to park their car over there. You're going to park your car over here. Get it?

  84. #84

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    ^ no, clearly it wasn't inability on behalf of the suppliers. But there are multiple possibilities why a company doesn't process invoices that can range all the way from dire to dumb.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  85. #85

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    Planet Organic 'sorry' for recent supply troubles
    Edmonton-founded chain has faced criticism in recent months over empty shelves.

    Kevin Tuong / Metro Order this photo

    Marco West, assistant store manager at Planet Organic, says the chain is welcoming customers back after months of struggle.
    By: Alex Boyd Metro Published on Wed Feb 22 2017

    Following months of customer complaints, Planet Organic has a very Canadian message for their customers: they’re sorry.

    In a release that drops the ‘s’ word no fewer than five times, CEO Alan Thompson said the past few months “were not the best.”

    “Sorry and we will do better,” the release said. “Sorry.”
    http://www.metronews.ca/news/edmonto...-troubles.html


    Interestingly and with ambiguous relation to last November's disruptions:

    The company was previously owned by U.S.-based Natural Market Foods Group, but as of 2017 has a new Canadian-based owner.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

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