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Thread: President Donald Trump What Now

  1. #201

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    ^I for sure thought there would have been a much bigger turn out considering how contentious it was. Maybe people just got tired of the rhetoric for months on end. Plus the two candidates with all their baggage. I would have been interesting if Clinton had of got knocked out of the race a Bernie kept on. Could be Bernie President Elect right now.
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

  2. #202

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    Ok, so what options would he have for his secret plan?


    It’s almost like Donald Trump’s secret plan to defeat ISIS never actually existed
    By Aaron Blake September 7, 2016
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...ing-to-use-it/


    Donald Trump’s Plan to Defeat ISIS: Let ISIS and Assad Fight, U.S. Could Clean Up ‘Remnants’
    by ALEX SWOYER 27 Sep 2015


    GOP frontrunner Donald Trump suggested a plan to defeat ISIS during an interview with 60 Minutes’s Scott Pelley, challenging the current tactic—“We’re fighting ISIS and Assad has to be saying to himself, “They are the nicest or dumbest people that I’ve ever imagined.”

    “I would end ISIS forcefully. I think ISIS, what they did, was unbelievable what they did with James Foley and the cutting off of heads of everybody. I mean, these people are totally a disaster,” Trump vowed when Pelley asked what he would do to defeat ISIS.

    Trump continued, “Now, let me just say this, ISIS in Syria, Assad in Syria, Assad and ISIS are mortal enemies. We go in to fight ISIS. Why aren’t we letting ISIS go and fight Assad and then we pick up the remnants? Why are we doing this?”

    “Let me get this right.” Pelley questioned, “So, we lay off ISIS for now? Lay off in Syria, let them destroy Assad? And then we go in behind that?”

    “That’s what I would say,” Trump answered. “Yes, that’s what I would say.”

    Trump continued, “If you look at Syria, Russia wants to get rid of ISIS. We want to get rid of ISIS. Maybe let Russia do it. Let them get rid of ISIS. What the hell do we care?”

    Pelley then asked what Trump would do in Iraq with ISIS.

    “Look, with ISIS in Iraq, you got to knock them out. You got to knock them out. You got to fight them. You got to fight them,” Trump answered, adding, if needed, he would put boots on the ground.
    ...

    http://www.breitbart.com/big-governm...lean-remnants/
    Last edited by KC; 10-11-2016 at 12:28 PM.

  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gord Lacey View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement
    That aspect of this I actually embrace. It was the sordid rekindling of US-Russian animosities that I found alarming.


    And who was doing the rekindling, exactly? The country that has invaded two of it's sovereign neighbors in the last decade and who is presently supporting a dictator that has slaughtered somewhere around half a million of his own people (a full order of magnitude more than his dad managed a half century earlier in Hama), and which has actually seized territory? Or the one saying "hey wait a second, seizing another nation's sovereign territory is not cool"? How many airliners has Obama shot down, exactly? How many opposition politicians and independent journalists has he had assassinated?

    Putin will not be appeased by Trump. He will take that as a sign of weakness, and continue his adventures in his backyard and abroad, carving out a larger and larger sphere of influence.
    As crazy as it sounds, my wife is somewhat happy that Trump won because many in the occupied area of Ukraine feel that it will mean the end of the war. Not that Ukraine will have won, but that Ukraine will pull out and cede the occupied territory around Donetsk.
    We have family in Ukraine, one thing for sure was that Russia/Putin had little to no regard for what Obama had to say. Obama failed when it came to foreign policy.

  4. #204

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    Maybe Trump will get Russia to join NATO.

  5. #205

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by faraz View Post
    Yes, the narrative he spins does contribute to it. There was a rise in hate attacks every time Donald went after Mexicans, hispanics, etc. His rhetoric allows these scumbags to feel empowered to say these things in public. Donald is not creating racists but he's allowing them to feel brave enough to go after people because they know their President is one of them.
    Kids in school have found that they are victims of bullying and racism because of the of the Trumpism that has spread.
    Do you have a credible source for that? Because that sounds exactly like imaginary anti-Trump propaganda.

  6. #206
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  7. #207

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    Nothing in that article about kids getting bullied at school because of Trump.


    Plus, I believe the majority of these protests and acts were pre-organized by Hillary supporters as a reactionary measure in the event that Trump won.

    In Austin there were line ups of buses full of protesters, and you'll notice a lot of the protesters in these photos all have pre-printed yellow and black signs (the same ones that the Democrats printed up and gave to their paid protesters to incite violence at Trump's rallies).

  8. #208

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    At least a 50% chance the swastika's and so on were done by a trump hater. Lots and lots of proven examples in the past few years of people manufacturing hate senarios. Even if it is real, it is a huge reach to link it to trump.

  9. #209

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    A group of "tolerant" lefties physically assaulting a man for voting for Trump:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYW3...ature=youtu.be

  10. #210

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Kids in middle school in Michigan chanting “build the wall” after the election.


    https://www.buzzfeed.com/mikehayes/m...build-the-wall


    The one good thing about Trump’s victory is we are seeing many people’s true colors; who they really are when it comes to issues of race — on this forum, in the city, and across America.

  11. #211

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    Quote Originally Posted by faraz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Kids in middle school in Michigan chanting “build the wall” after the election.

    That's it? Ha ha.

  12. #212

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    The only reason people think Trump is racist is because:


    a) the mainstream news keeps telling you he is, and

    b) Trump is not Democrat

    Seriously, that's it.

  13. #213

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    Or c) the man has made numerous racist remarks on the record & has been called out by it by fellow Republicans.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/08/us...riel.html?_r=0
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  14. #214

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    The only reason people think Trump is racist is because:


    a) the mainstream news keeps telling you he is, and

    b) Trump is not Democrat

    Seriously, that's it.
    So, nothing Trump said during the election campaign might lead some people to think he is a racist? Nothing he did in the past might lead people to think he is a racist?

  15. #215

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    The attack on that judge wasn't racist. Trump was calling out a conflict of interest. Trump wanted to clamp down on illegal Mexicans, and Judge Curiel is a member of the "Mexican pride" group, La Raza.


    Of course the Clinton-colluding New York Times and knobs Paul Ryan (who has been trying to sabotage Trump at every turn) will spin it as "racist" remark, though.

  16. #216

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    So, nothing Trump said during the election campaign might lead some people to think he is a racist? Nothing he did in the past might lead people to think he is a racist?
    Nope.

    Wanting to crack down on ILLEGAL immigration in order to be fair to people who are immigrating legally is not "racist".

  17. #217

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    The De-Hitlerization of Your Brain

    http://blog.dilbert.com/post/152998516891/the-de-hitlerization-of-your-brain

  18. #218

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    This black Trump supporter understands how the media is being unfair to Donald:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxcAN0t6GrI

  19. #219

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    So, nothing Trump said during the election campaign might lead some people to think he is a racist? Nothing he did in the past might lead people to think he is a racist?
    Nope.

    Wanting to crack down on ILLEGAL immigration in order to be fair to people who are immigrating legally is not "racist".
    It isn't, but not renting apartments to black people even when ordered to under federal law is. Also, calling the illegal immigrants rapists and murders when these immigrants have a lower crime rate than other Americans is certainly at least pandering to racists, if not racist.

    Donald said many things in the election to get the support of racists. He can't now just pretend that didn't happen or he didn't say it and he can not unsay them. People do remember the things he has said and done and they are not going to forget it.

  20. #220

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    The people who go to great lengths to try and prove Trump isn't a racist despite saying racist things, holding racist beliefs & pandering to other racists are likely experts at that level of cognitive dissonance, as they use it every day to convince themselves that they aren't racist either.

    Thanks, C2E Trump Apologists for making it so easy to pad out my ignore list.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  21. #221

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    What a bunch of nonsense. Liberals and NDP supporters called all the Harper supporters "racists" as well. Apparently it's what they need to keep saying to claim the moral high ground.

    By all means, keep calling people names if it makes you feel superior, but it's certainly not going to convince anyone to take you seriously or to win someone over to your side.

  22. #222

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Thanks, C2E Trump Apologists for making it so easy to pad out my ignore list.

    I'm glad this forum has that "safe space" for you and the other reality-deniers

  23. #223

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    Agreed. Seeing them come out of the woodwork now supporting and justifying Trump's racist policies helps in knowing who to ignore.

  24. #224

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    Typical lefties. Instead of debate with a viewpoint they don't agree with, they'd rather call people names, make false accusations, and go play in their own safe space.

  25. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by faraz View Post
    Yes, the narrative he spins does contribute to it. There was a rise in hate attacks every time Donald went after Mexicans, hispanics, etc. His rhetoric allows these scumbags to feel empowered to say these things in public. Donald is not creating racists but he's allowing them to feel brave enough to go after people because they know their President is one of them.
    Kids in school have found that they are victims of bullying and racism because of the of the Trumpism that has spread.
    So what really has changed then given that this was a constant in school life?

    Did Trump cause Cancer and global hunger and strife as well.

    Can we keep the conversation contained without resorting to such anecdotal and silly stories?

    FTR I'm not Trump apologist or supporter. Just that I found both of the candidates for President Deplorable. Not equally deplorable, differently deplorable.

    I state this due to the rampant typecasting and labeling going on.

    Which probably won't deter it anyway.
    Last edited by Replacement; 10-11-2016 at 02:13 PM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  26. #226

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    A nation enforcing its borders is racist in 2016.

  27. #227
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    Interesting to note as well how many of the same people deploring Trump were in favor, and supporting sordid European Right Wing parties or in the least not so vociferously opposing it.

    Kind of ironic how crass the cross continent shots are about the USA given the shifts, elections, actions in Europe.

    Maybe mind your own continent first..
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  28. #228

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    Quote Originally Posted by borntohula View Post
    A nation enforcing its borders is racist in 2016.
    Only when Trump says it.

  29. #229

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    I don't think trump is a racist. at least, not more than most people who prefer the company of people like themselves.
    I think he's an *** hole who likes pissing people off and pushing to see what he can get away with, whether it's saying or grabbing. That it emboldens actual racists to do the same is not a surprise.
    There can only be one.

  30. #230

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    Asking people not to hate others based on skin color or religion is being called a "lefty" now.
    Glad Trump lite Harper and his rednecks are gone for good in this country.

  31. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by Highlander II View Post
    I don't think trump is a racist. at least, not more than most people who prefer the company of people like themselves.
    I think he's an *** hole who likes pissing people off and pushing to see what he can get away with, whether it's saying or grabbing. That it emboldens actual racists to do the same is not a surprise.
    Finally a reasonable viewpoint. The man is clearly pandering to what works. Currently being the biggest rube in the room is not at all selected against in Politics and we've seen countless swing examples of that of the public voting for the guy least likely to be considered a typical politician. Nor is this an isolated or localized phenomenon and around the world what would be considered joke candidates get elected to highest office.

    The guy is a pure and pure troll that believes any press is good. He hasn't been proved wrong, just saying.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  32. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by faraz View Post
    Asking people not to hate others based on skin color or religion is being called a "lefty" now.
    Glad Trump lite Harper and his rednecks are gone for good in this country.
    You're hardly striking any kind of objective middle ground here with your comments. I understand the passion, believe me I do, I just find the ruminating about what this brings for America and the world more harmful than helpful. Really I'd be more worried about what has been going on in Europe endlessly. Which is also much more of an ugly picture from a continent that should probably know better..

    All that said glad to live in Canada. Always glad.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  33. #233

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    Quote Originally Posted by faraz View Post
    Asking people not to hate others based on skin color or religion is being called a "lefty" now.
    You outright called people "racists", which is not 'asking people not to hate others based on skin color or religion". It is an outright insult.

    The trend right now from the left is to try to shame people into being quiet about their opposing views by labeling them inflammatory things like "racists", even without saying anything racist. Even when the issue is not about race!
    Last edited by MrOilers; 10-11-2016 at 02:33 PM.

  34. #234

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    Quote Originally Posted by borntohula View Post
    A nation enforcing its borders is racist in 2016.
    I find it interesting that 30% of Hispanic voter's in the US voted FOR Trump. The left wing media have spun it that if you criticize illegal immigration, or believe illegal immigrants should be deported, that makes you a racist. It simply isn't true, many immigrants, like the 30% of Hispanics who LEGALLY are in the country, understand that people jumping the line depress wages, inflate crime statistics and damage society. Its not racist to believe the border should be secure, or even that there should be a wall.
    Last edited by moahunter; 10-11-2016 at 02:40 PM.

  35. #235

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    ^Or they voted for him for other reasons. From old alliances like Cuban who vote Republican, to general anti-establishment reaction, to social conservative=Republican reasons, to a reaction to massive obama-care rate hikes.

    They're just as likely to not believe that he would build a wall as they are to want it.
    There can only be one.

  36. #236

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by borntohula View Post
    A nation enforcing its borders is racist in 2016.
    I find it interesting that 30% of Hispanic voter's in the US voted FOR Trump. The left wing media have spun it that if you criticize illegal immigration, or believe illegal immigrants should be deported, that makes you a racist. It simply isn't true, many immigrants, like the 30% of Hispanics who LEGALLY are in the country, understand that people jumping the line depress wages, inflate crime statistics and damage society. Its not racist to believe the border should be secure, or even that there should be a wall.
    It is all so simple, isn't it? Should someone who has been in the US for 30 years, law abiding, paying taxes, who has children and grandchildren born in the US be deported because they crossed a border in another century looking for a better life? Do you want to send out the Gestapo to round them all up and send them home? No, its so much easier to call them murders and rapists when that is not true and to scapegoat them because many good paying jobs have been exported to elsewhere.

    The FACT is that now more Mexicans are actually leaving the US than going to the there (surprising, but true). Thus, the current border problem exists mainly in the minds of people with prejudices and those that want to pander to them to win political office and what really depresses wages is that people already in the US have no path to citizenship, so they are more likely to be exploited by employers.

  37. #237

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by borntohula View Post
    A nation enforcing its borders is racist in 2016.
    I find it interesting that 30% of Hispanic voter's in the US voted FOR Trump. The left wing media have spun it that if you criticize illegal immigration, or believe illegal immigrants should be deported, that makes you a racist. It simply isn't true, many immigrants, like the 30% of Hispanics who LEGALLY are in the country, understand that people jumping the line depress wages, inflate crime statistics and damage society. Its not racist to believe the border should be secure, or even that there should be a wall.
    It is all so simple, isn't it? Should someone who has been in the US for 30 years, law abiding, paying taxes, who has children and grandchildren born in the US be deported because they crossed a border in another century looking for a better life? Do you want to send out the Gestapo to round them all up and send them home? No, its so much easier to call them murders and rapists when that is not true and to scapegoat them because many good paying jobs have been exported to elsewhere.
    Why do you have to invoke Godwin? Like it or not, in your example, if that person breaks a law tomorrow, even under Obama, they will be deported. What's wrong with going back to their homeland and getting in line fairly, like I had to do when I came to Canada? Why is it such an evil thing, a crime against humanity, to send someone back to the country they were born in, a democratic country that is part of NAFTA? Are you implying that America is the only place in the world worth living in? Just because you committed a crime a long time ago, doesn't IMO entitle you to keep benefiting from that crime. I'm sorry but if they want to be American, or Canadian, or even you want to be a Mexican, there are legitimate ways to do that.
    Last edited by moahunter; 10-11-2016 at 03:01 PM.

  38. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by borntohula View Post
    A nation enforcing its borders is racist in 2016.
    I find it interesting that 30% of Hispanic voter's in the US voted FOR Trump. The left wing media have spun it that if you criticize illegal immigration, or believe illegal immigrants should be deported, that makes you a racist. It simply isn't true, many immigrants, like the 30% of Hispanics who LEGALLY are in the country, understand that people jumping the line depress wages, inflate crime statistics and damage society. Its not racist to believe the border should be secure, or even that there should be a wall.
    It is all so simple, isn't it? Should someone who has been in the US for 30 years, law abiding, paying taxes, who has children and grandchildren born in the US be deported because they crossed a border in another century looking for a better life? Do you want to send out the Gestapo to round them all up and send them home? No, its so much easier to call them murders and rapists when that is not true and to scapegoat them because many good paying jobs have been exported to elsewhere.

    The FACT is that now more Mexicans are actually leaving the US than going to the there (surprising, but true). Thus, the current border problem exists mainly in the minds of people with prejudices and those that want to pander to them to win political office and what really depresses wages is that people already in the US have no path to citizenship, so they are more likely to be exploited by employers.
    When invoking Godwins Law you as may well lose big or go home..

    Why would you or anybody even do that to their argument and position in a political debate?

    Your post would be more effective deleting it and saying "nevermind"
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  39. #239

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by borntohula View Post
    A nation enforcing its borders is racist in 2016.
    I find it interesting that 30% of Hispanic voter's in the US voted FOR Trump. The left wing media have spun it that if you criticize illegal immigration, or believe illegal immigrants should be deported, that makes you a racist. It simply isn't true, many immigrants, like the 30% of Hispanics who LEGALLY are in the country, understand that people jumping the line depress wages, inflate crime statistics and damage society. Its not racist to believe the border should be secure, or even that there should be a wall.
    It is all so simple, isn't it? Should someone who has been in the US for 30 years, law abiding, paying taxes, who has children and grandchildren born in the US be deported because they crossed a border in another century looking for a better life? Do you want to send out the Gestapo to round them all up and send them home? No, its so much easier to call them murders and rapists when that is not true and to scapegoat them because many good paying jobs have been exported to elsewhere.
    Why do you have to invoke Godwin? Like it or not, in your example, if that person breaks a law tomorrow, even under Obama, they will be deported.What's wrong with going back to their homeland and getting in line fairly, like I had to do when I came to Canada? Why is it such an evil thing to send someone back to the country they were born in? Are you implying that America is the only place in the world worth living in? Just because you committed a crime a long time ago, doesn't IMO entitle you to keep benefiting from that crime. I'm sorry but if they want to be American, there are legitimate ways to do that.
    Ok, if you don't like my term we can call it the US Secret Border police or whatever - but that does not change how it feels to that person who has been in the US for a long time, perhaps longer than a lot of immigrants who filled out the right forms and became citizens. I think these people and their families seriously want to know right now, because this has actually been debated and discussed in the US a lot - is the US government now going to round them up and deport them? If you see the world that black and white and think that is is the only acceptable answer, then you have answered my question.

  40. #240

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    Student files fake police report to make Trump supporters look bad:

    Lafayette PD: UL student made up story about attack, stolen hijab

    http://klfy.com/2016/11/10/lafayette...-stolen-hijab/

  41. #241

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    I think these people and their families seriously want to know right now, because this has actually been debated and discussed in the US a lot - is the US government now going to round them up and deport them? If you see the world that black and white and think that is is the only acceptable answer, then you have answered my question.
    The whole premise is silly - how is the US going to know where they are to deport them? They have hidden for decades and can probably hide for longer. Its doesn't make it right though, because they are illegally in the country. There is nothing wrong with Mexico, thousands of Canadians go there every year to vacation- no reason why they can't go home, and then apply properly to be in the US (if they qualify, there shouldn't be an advantage over other applicants because you snuck in previously). The first step is to secure the border, to stop more people illegally sneaking in. Deportations are going to happen, they happened under Obama, and they will happen under Trump.

  42. #242

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by borntohula View Post
    A nation enforcing its borders is racist in 2016.
    I find it interesting that 30% of Hispanic voter's in the US voted FOR Trump. The left wing media have spun it that if you criticize illegal immigration, or believe illegal immigrants should be deported, that makes you a racist. It simply isn't true, many immigrants, like the 30% of Hispanics who LEGALLY are in the country, understand that people jumping the line depress wages, inflate crime statistics and damage society. Its not racist to believe the border should be secure, or even that there should be a wall.
    It is all so simple, isn't it? Should someone who has been in the US for 30 years, law abiding, paying taxes, who has children and grandchildren born in the US be deported because they crossed a border in another century looking for a better life? Do you want to send out the Gestapo to round them all up and send them home? No, its so much easier to call them murders and rapists when that is not true and to scapegoat them because many good paying jobs have been exported to elsewhere.

    The FACT is that now more Mexicans are actually leaving the US than going to the there (surprising, but true). Thus, the current border problem exists mainly in the minds of people with prejudices and those that want to pander to them to win political office and what really depresses wages is that people already in the US have no path to citizenship, so they are more likely to be exploited by employers.
    When invoking Godwins Law you as may well lose big or go home..

    Why would you or anybody even do that to their argument and position in a political debate?

    Your post would be more effective deleting it and saying "nevermind"
    Invoking Godwins law - not ok, but calling illegal immigrants rapists and murders when that is not true is ok? What sort of messed up logic is that?

  43. #243

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    I think these people and their families seriously want to know right now, because this has actually been debated and discussed in the US a lot - is the US government now going to round them up and deport them? If you see the world that black and white and think that is is the only acceptable answer, then you have answered my question.
    The whole premise is silly - how is the US going to know where they are to deport them? They have hidden for decades and can probably hide for longer. Its doesn't make it right though, because they are illegally in the country. There is nothing wrong with Mexico, thousands of Canadians go there every year to vacation- no reason why they can't go home, and then apply properly to be in the US (if they qualify, there shouldn't be an advantage over other applicants because you snuck in previously). The first step is to secure the border, to stop more people illegally sneaking in. Deportations are going to happen, they happened under Obama, and they will happen under Trump.
    It premise might be silly, but the candidate who just won the Presidency actually said he would do exactly that in the election campaign.

  44. #244

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Invoking Godwins law - not ok, but calling illegal immigrants rapists and murders when that is not true is ok? What sort of messed up logic is that?
    You're trying to have a rational debate with devout ideologues. Logic doesn't really factor into much in this thread.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  45. #245

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    ^^well if he can achieve that, I'll cheer, because it means millions more people who aren't cheats can immigrate legally. I don't know where you got the idea the entire world has a right to live in the US, and that its inhuman to send people home if they don't. Oh, hold on, I do, probably some lefty hack on CNN told you that.

  46. #246

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Invoking Godwins law - not ok, but calling illegal immigrants rapists and murders when that is not true is ok? What sort of messed up logic is that?
    You're trying to have a rational debate with devout ideologues. Logic doesn't really factor into much in this thread.
    Yes, I realize some are impermeable to logic. However, I really hope most people do not take some of the things they say seriously and I don't think it can go unchallenged.

  47. #247
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    Anti-Trump protests: Left freaks out with hysterics, temper tantrums after a fair election

    By Erick Erickson
    Published November 10, 2016 FoxNews.com


    For eight years the left has refused to hold itself accountable. Having once declared dissent patriotic, dissent for the last eight years has been homophobic, bigoted, and racist. Conservatives and people of faith have been hounded from their jobs, silenced, and punished for refusing to go along with the left’s agenda. The left demanded cultural homogeneity and is outraged that Americans refuse to go along with their anti-Christian secular agenda.
    On Tuesday, Americans had enough and decided to seek fundamental change.


    Today, the left is protesting in the streets because of American democratic action. The left accuses Donald Trump of totalitarianism, but it is the left refusing to accept a democratic act. The left blasted Trump for suggesting the election was rigged. But they are okay with protesting a fair election and declaring it illegitimate because they hate the outcome.


    A week ago the Democratic Party insisted that everyone accept the legitimacy of the election. What we are seeing today is that much of the left think that, like so many other things, it is a one way street.
    http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2016/...-election.html

  48. #248

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^^well if he can achieve that, I'll cheer, because it means millions more people who aren't cheats can immigrate legally. I don't know where you got the idea the entire world has a right to live in the US, and that its inhuman to send people home if they don't. Oh, hold on, I do, probably some lefty hack on CNN told you that.
    I actually don't have the idea the entire world has a right to live in the US - those are your words not mine. Maybe it would be good if you don't try to presume all my thoughts or what TV channel I watch.

  49. #249

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    You know who is racist?

    The mainstream media for not talking more about Tim Scott, now the first black senator elected in a Southern state since Reconstruction. This is a major achievement, but it doesn't fit their narrative of all Trump supporters being racists, I guess (he is not Democrat).

  50. #250

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    You're really stretching in that one, eh? "Republican wins election in south" isn't much of a headline. Maybe his nomination was a big deal, I don't know.

    Almost like the fox commentator above who thinks peaceful "we're not happy" marches are on par with calls to stockpile arms to resist the government.

    edit: Tim Scott was previously appointed by the governed, and then elected for the final 2 years of the previous senator's incomplete term.

    He may have been news then but he's not this election.
    Last edited by Highlander II; 10-11-2016 at 03:54 PM.
    There can only be one.

  51. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by borntohula View Post
    A nation enforcing its borders is racist in 2016.
    I find it interesting that 30% of Hispanic voter's in the US voted FOR Trump. The left wing media have spun it that if you criticize illegal immigration, or believe illegal immigrants should be deported, that makes you a racist. It simply isn't true, many immigrants, like the 30% of Hispanics who LEGALLY are in the country, understand that people jumping the line depress wages, inflate crime statistics and damage society. Its not racist to believe the border should be secure, or even that there should be a wall.
    It is all so simple, isn't it? Should someone who has been in the US for 30 years, law abiding, paying taxes, who has children and grandchildren born in the US be deported because they crossed a border in another century looking for a better life? Do you want to send out the Gestapo to round them all up and send them home? No, its so much easier to call them murders and rapists when that is not true and to scapegoat them because many good paying jobs have been exported to elsewhere.

    The FACT is that now more Mexicans are actually leaving the US than going to the there (surprising, but true). Thus, the current border problem exists mainly in the minds of people with prejudices and those that want to pander to them to win political office and what really depresses wages is that people already in the US have no path to citizenship, so they are more likely to be exploited by employers.
    When invoking Godwins Law you as may well lose big or go home..

    Why would you or anybody even do that to their argument and position in a political debate?

    Your post would be more effective deleting it and saying "nevermind"
    Invoking Godwins law - not ok, but calling illegal immigrants rapists and murders when that is not true is ok? What sort of messed up logic is that?
    By all means call out things effectively. One of the reasons Trump has been elected president is due to how ineffectual opposition has been. Which you typified in your posts.

    Lets be clear here. I despise Donald Trump and everything he stands for. Which doesn't mean I would compare him to...

    Unfortunately we're living in a post informational age where discourse, (not saying just here, but in general) is so whacked that it may as well not even exist. With extreme views on all sides precluding even a possibility of rational discussion.

    By mentioning Godwin it doesn't logically follow that I subscribe to anything Trump states. I do however think radical comparisons actually disservice any attempt at debate. This should be clear.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  52. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Invoking Godwins law - not ok, but calling illegal immigrants rapists and murders when that is not true is ok? What sort of messed up logic is that?
    You're trying to have a rational debate with devout ideologues. Logic doesn't really factor into much in this thread.
    Yes, I realize some are impermeable to logic. However, I really hope most people do not take some of the things they say seriously and I don't think it can go unchallenged.
    Any ridiculous posts, like your earlier one, can and should be challenged. Which given your above statement you would challenge yourself had it not been your statement..

    We go full circle here..
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  53. #253

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    Trump is a pure narcissist. Basically, the textbook definition of what a narcissist is. Wouldn't surprise me if he used as an example in the textbooks.

  54. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moodib View Post
    Trump is a pure narcissist. Basically, the textbook definition of what a narcissist is. Wouldn't surprise me if he used as an example in the textbooks.
    He will get on with our PM, won't he?

  55. #255

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    Since YouTube keeps blocking /deleting the video of the person getting beaten up simply for voting for Trump, here is an alternate source of the "tolerant" left in action:

    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=27f_1478817574

  56. #256

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    Quote Originally Posted by hello lady View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Moodib View Post
    Trump is a pure narcissist. Basically, the textbook definition of what a narcissist is. Wouldn't surprise me if he used as an example in the textbooks.
    He will get on with our PM, won't he?
    Trudeau did invite him to Canada already.

    OT: Has anyone noticed they can't add spaces sometimes in the quick reply box? Probably a bug with Chrome rather than the forum, but annoying nonetheless.

  57. #257

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by borntohula View Post
    A nation enforcing its borders is racist in 2016.
    I find it interesting that 30% of Hispanic voter's in the US voted FOR Trump. The left wing media have spun it that if you criticize illegal immigration, or believe illegal immigrants should be deported, that makes you a racist. It simply isn't true, many immigrants, like the 30% of Hispanics who LEGALLY are in the country, understand that people jumping the line depress wages, inflate crime statistics and damage society. Its not racist to believe the border should be secure, or even that there should be a wall.
    It is all so simple, isn't it? Should someone who has been in the US for 30 years, law abiding, paying taxes, who has children and grandchildren born in the US be deported because they crossed a border in another century looking for a better life? Do you want to send out the Gestapo to round them all up and send them home? No, its so much easier to call them murders and rapists when that is not true and to scapegoat them because many good paying jobs have been exported to elsewhere.

    The FACT is that now more Mexicans are actually leaving the US than going to the there (surprising, but true). Thus, the current border problem exists mainly in the minds of people with prejudices and those that want to pander to them to win political office and what really depresses wages is that people already in the US have no path to citizenship, so they are more likely to be exploited by employers.
    When invoking Godwins Law you as may well lose big or go home..

    Why would you or anybody even do that to their argument and position in a political debate?

    Your post would be more effective deleting it and saying "nevermind"
    Invoking Godwins law - not ok, but calling illegal immigrants rapists and murders when that is not true is ok? What sort of messed up logic is that?
    By all means call out things effectively. One of the reasons Trump has been elected president is due to how ineffectual opposition has been. Which you typified in your posts.

    Lets be clear here. I despise Donald Trump and everything he stands for. Which doesn't mean I would compare him to...

    Unfortunately we're living in a post informational age where discourse, (not saying just here, but in general) is so whacked that it may as well not even exist. With extreme views on all sides precluding even a possibility of rational discussion.

    By mentioning Godwin it doesn't logically follow that I subscribe to anything Trump states. I do however think radical comparisons actually disservice any attempt at debate. This should be clear.
    I totally totally disagree on this. I think saying you want to round up and I believe deport 11 million people, puts you in certain company whether you like it or not. Now, I realize he has said a lot of crazy things and I hope he doesn't do most of them and I think he actually probably wont. Unlike some other places, the US has a fairly robust constitution and history of laws, which would make some of these things difficult and perhaps upon further reflection he may decide they are not really great ideas anyways and just forget about them. However, lets not minimize this - other places said "it won't happen here" and it did. He has said radical things, so radical comparisons are being made.

    The opposition is not ineffectual because I chose a word that some on the internet are not comfortable with, which I think is out of superstition. This guy defeated two governors and two senators in his own party, as well as around a dozen other candidates - lets not keep underestimating him and say "oh its all just ineffectual opposition, he would have lost if there was some other better candidate". No, he knows how to play this to win, he did and he does not play nice. The world may go through some dark times over the next few years, this is a bit like the 1930's. I can see we have forgotten some of the history and are repeating some of the same mistakes. Of course, it is not inevitable we continue to go down this path but its easier to stop if we don't try to pretend its not a good path and we recall where it took the world before.

  58. #258

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    Yes, despite how it seems, with the car and wallet theft, this was not a mugging, it was totally a politically motivated crime.

    riiiight.
    There can only be one.

  59. #259
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by faraz View Post
    Asking people not to hate others based on skin color or religion is being called a "lefty" now.
    You outright called people "racists", which is not 'asking people not to hate others based on skin color or religion". It is an outright insult.

    The trend right now from the left is to try to shame people into being quiet about their opposing views by labeling them inflammatory things like "racists", even without saying anything racist. Even when the issue is not about race!

    Xackly Mr. Oil.

    Thank you.


  60. #260

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    Quote Originally Posted by Highlander II View Post
    Yes, despite how it seems, with the car and wallet theft, this was not a mugging, it was totally a politically motivated crime.

    riiiight.
    Oh, I see. The people just "accidentally" called him a Trump supporter while they were beating him up, when actually it was a bunch of racist black Trump supporters robbing and beating up a poor Hillary supporter. Gotcha.

  61. #261
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    @ Dave^^^^

    In the bigger picture we don't disagree. But I don't know how you can argue that Trump was effectively opposed.

    They spent almost the entire PBS election broadcast wondering how it was that the media even incubated this man being elected due to ineffective coverage, rebuttal, focus, etc. There were some real soul searching moments where everybody blamed everybody and themselves. It was borderline comical.

    Other notably sad moments that occurred on the PBS broadcast was that the Trump vote was feminist bashing misogyny, or purely racist motivated.

    One of the pariahs got elected. That would seem to infer some less than effective opposition. The democrats have themselves largely to blame for this.

    Myself I wish Bernie Sanders was President today just to be clear. But alas.

    As far as the deportations Mexicans have always been deported. I don't think that will change entirely. I do hope the Mexican economy progresses to the point where its less of an issue for Mexicans either in the US illegally or those that should want to go there. Although maybe they should come to Canada instead.
    Last edited by Replacement; 10-11-2016 at 04:40 PM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  62. #262

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    OT: Has anyone noticed they can't add spaces sometimes in the quick reply box? Probably a bug with Chrome rather than the forum, but annoying nonetheless.
    Yes I am having the same problem on my PC but not on my phone.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  63. #263

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    @ Dave^^^^

    In the bigger picture we don't disagree. But I don't know how you can argue that Trump was effectively opposed.

    They spent almost the entire PBS election broadcast wondering how it was that the media even incubated this man being elected due to ineffective coverage, rebuttal, focus, etc. There were some real soul searching moments where everybody blamed everybody and themselves. It was borderline comical.

    Other notably sad moments that occurred on the PBS broadcast was that the Trump vote was feminist bashing misogyny, or purely racist motivated.

    One of the pariahs got elected. That would seem to infer some less than effective opposition. The democrats have themselves largely to blame for this.

    Myself I wish Bernie Sanders was President today just to be clear. But alas.

    As far as the deportations Mexicans have always been deported. I don't think that will change entirely. I do hope the Mexican economy progresses to the point where its less of an issue for Mexicans either in the US illegally or those that should want to go there. Although maybe they should come to Canada instead.
    I don't think Trump was effectively opposed, but in part it was because he plays a different game and his opponents were trying to play the old game the way it was played before. Some one said something about Hillary trying to beat him at chess when he was playing checkers and I thought that was a very good analogy. I liked Bernie's approach and perhaps it would have worked better or perhaps Trump would have just shredded him in a different way. Its easy to say "what if", but who really knows.

    Yes, it is true there have always been deportations, but the discussion got into mass deportations. In Canada we have it easier as we do not need to deal with this issue so much, but if the Mexicans come here instead, will we have room for the Americans to be coming too?

  64. #264

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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Dawg View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by faraz View Post
    Asking people not to hate others based on skin color or religion is being called a "lefty" now.
    You outright called people "racists", which is not 'asking people not to hate others based on skin color or religion". It is an outright insult.

    The trend right now from the left is to try to shame people into being quiet about their opposing views by labeling them inflammatory things like "racists", even without saying anything racist. Even when the issue is not about race!

    Xackly Mr. Oil.

    Thank you.



    As an aside, no one really seems to know what racism means these days. It's being applied to everything and no one explains what they are perceiving when they use it.

    So, is Trump's border control / wall solution racist? I'd say it is in the sense it's nationalistic, and race used to be used along the lines of tribe/nation. I don't know if it's grounded in any kind of colour or religious predudices.

    Note, in the mid 1800s they sometimes said: 'we don't discriminate based on race, creed or colour.' Note they differentiated colour from race and religion from race. Interesting trivia in my view.




    Is denying someone entry into Canada a racist policy? Or being critical of or exclusionary to people of a differing political persuasion?

    What is discrimination?
    A summary of this page is available in accessible video (ASL, captioning and voice-over)

    Discrimination is an action or a decision that treats a person or a group negatively for reasons such as their race, age or disability. These reasons are known as grounds of discrimination. Federal employers and service providers, as well as employers and service providers of private companies that are regulated by the federal government, cannot discriminate against individuals for these reasons.

    These 11 grounds are protected under the Canadian Human Rights Act:

    race
    national or ethnic origin
    colour
    religion
    age
    sex
    sexual orientation
    marital status
    family status
    disability
    a conviction for which a pardon has been granted or a record suspended.
    There are several ways that a person could be discriminated against. The Canadian Human Rights Act calls these discriminatory practices. The following seven discriminatory practices are prohibited by the Canadian Human Rights Act when they are based on one or more of the 11 grounds of discrimination:

    Denying someone goods, services, facilities or accommodation.
    Providing someone goods, services, facilities or accommodation in a way that treats them adversely and differently.
    Refusing to employ or continue to employ someone, or treating them unfairly in the workplace.
    Following policies or practices that deprive people of employment opportunities.
    Paying men and women differently when they are doing work of the same value.
    Retaliating against a person who has filed a complaint with the Commission or against someone who has filed a complaint for them.
    Harassing someone.


    http://www.chrc-ccdp.gc.ca/eng/conte...discrimination
    Last edited by KC; 10-11-2016 at 05:17 PM.

  65. #265
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    It premise might be silly, but the candidate who just won the Presidency actually said he would do exactly that in the election campaign.
    what makes you think campaign statements in the u.s. are written in smoke that's any more or less ephemeral than the smoke used making campaign statements in Canada?

    i would have destroyed a ballot before using it to vote for trump but i am hopeful that, once the smoke clears, the old maxim that "the office makes the president more than the president makes the office" will hold true.

    in the interim, it's disappointing to see the other side displaying so many of the characteristics they supposedly opposed so stongly.
    Last edited by kcantor; 10-11-2016 at 05:26 PM.
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  66. #266

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Highlander II View Post
    Yes, despite how it seems, with the car and wallet theft, this was not a mugging, it was totally a politically motivated crime.

    riiiight.
    Oh, I see. The people just "accidentally" called him a Trump supporter while they were beating him up, when actually it was a bunch of racist black Trump supporters robbing and beating up a poor Hillary supporter. Gotcha.
    Nope. Definitely criminals, possibly racist, probably voted Democrat if they voted.
    But just like the few who loot and light cars on fire after a cup win/loss, they're criminals using an event for an excuse.

    I'm sure victim/identity politics has been part of the motivations of many petty criminals over the years. People who justify stealing as stealing back. Probably happening here. And they probably picked their victim as an outsider.

    But it's a theft, not a political statement.
    There can only be one.

  67. #267

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Dawg View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by faraz View Post
    Asking people not to hate others based on skin color or religion is being called a "lefty" now.
    You outright called people "racists", which is not 'asking people not to hate others based on skin color or religion". It is an outright insult.

    The trend right now from the left is to try to shame people into being quiet about their opposing views by labeling them inflammatory things like "racists", even without saying anything racist. Even when the issue is not about race!

    Xackly Mr. Oil.

    Thank you.



    As an aside, no one really seems to know what racism means these days. It's being applied to everything and no one explains what they are perceiving when they use it.

    So, is Trump's border control / wall solution racist? I'd say it is in the sense it's nationalistic, and race used to be used along the lines of tribe/nation. I don't know if it's grounded in any kind of colour or religious predudices.

    Note, in the mid 1800s they sometimes said: 'we don't discriminate based on race, creed or colour.' Note they differentiated colour from race and religion from race. Interesting trivia in my view.
    I think treating someone badly or unjustly because of their race, creed or colour is probably a fairly good starting point for calling something racism. Of course there is a lot grey in that - pandering to others prejudice for ones own advantage might be racist (ex. hire me rather than Joe because people like that are lazy) and just because someone feels badly or unjustly treated doesn't mean it is racially motivated (ex. if the women who got cut off in traffic is black, it could be just because the guy ahead was a jerk in a hurry). Also, there are those who would argue that racism is learned early and can be so automatic or subconscious that those doing it don't often realize it - like the store owner who only follows black customers around. Being called a racist seems to almost always invoke a defensive response or denial, but perhaps it should invoke self examination too.

  68. #268

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Dawg View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by faraz View Post
    Asking people not to hate others based on skin color or religion is being called a "lefty" now.
    You outright called people "racists", which is not 'asking people not to hate others based on skin color or religion". It is an outright insult.

    The trend right now from the left is to try to shame people into being quiet about their opposing views by labeling them inflammatory things like "racists", even without saying anything racist. Even when the issue is not about race!

    Xackly Mr. Oil.

    Thank you.



    As an aside, no one really seems to know what racism means these days. It's being applied to everything and no one explains what they are perceiving when they use it.

    So, is Trump's border control / wall solution racist? I'd say it is in the sense it's nationalistic, and race used to be used along the lines of tribe/nation. I don't know if it's grounded in any kind of colour or religious predudices.

    Note, in the mid 1800s they sometimes said: 'we don't discriminate based on race, creed or colour.' Note they differentiated colour from race and religion from race. Interesting trivia in my view.
    I think treating someone badly or unjustly because of their race, creed or colour is probably a fairly good starting point for calling something racism. Of course there is a lot grey in that - pandering to others prejudice for ones own advantage might be racist (ex. hire me rather than Joe because people like that are lazy) and just because someone feels badly or unjustly treated doesn't mean it is racially motivated (ex. if the women who got cut off in traffic is black, it could be just because the guy ahead was a jerk in a hurry). Also, there are those who would argue that racism is learned early and can be so automatic or subconscious that those doing it don't often realize it - like the store owner who only follows black customers around. Being called a racist seems to almost always invoke a defensive response or denial, but perhaps it should invoke self examination too.
    It seems "Racist" is quickly losing its old really negative connotations and is becoming synonymous with just hateful or nasty, because it's being applied to everything.

  69. #269

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    [I totally totally disagree on this. I think saying you want to round up and I believe deport 11 million people, puts you in certain company whether you like it or not.
    No it doesn't. Sending people who left a democratic country and illegally and unfairly snuck into another democratic country, back home to that democratic country (which is filled with beautiful beaches, an amazing history, and plenty of economic growth), is not the same as rounding up someone based on their race and exterminating them. It trivializes one of the worst atrocities ever, all you are doing is taking a view you disagree with (that border control / immigration laws can be enforced) - trying to turn it into mud based on your prejudices.
    Last edited by moahunter; 10-11-2016 at 05:38 PM.

  70. #270

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Dawg View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by faraz View Post
    Asking people not to hate others based on skin color or religion is being called a "lefty" now.
    You outright called people "racists", which is not 'asking people not to hate others based on skin color or religion". It is an outright insult.

    The trend right now from the left is to try to shame people into being quiet about their opposing views by labeling them inflammatory things like "racists", even without saying anything racist. Even when the issue is not about race!

    Xackly Mr. Oil.

    Thank you.



    As an aside, no one really seems to know what racism means these days. It's being applied to everything and no one explains what they are perceiving when they use it.

    So, is Trump's border control / wall solution racist? I'd say it is in the sense it's nationalistic, and race used to be used along the lines of tribe/nation. I don't know if it's grounded in any kind of colour or religious predudices.

    Note, in the mid 1800s they sometimes said: 'we don't discriminate based on race, creed or colour.' Note they differentiated colour from race and religion from race. Interesting trivia in my view.
    I think treating someone badly or unjustly because of their race, creed or colour is probably a fairly good starting point for calling something racism. Of course there is a lot grey in that - pandering to others prejudice for ones own advantage might be racist (ex. hire me rather than Joe because people like that are lazy) and just because someone feels badly or unjustly treated doesn't mean it is racially motivated (ex. if the women who got cut off in traffic is black, it could be just because the guy ahead was a jerk in a hurry). Also, there are those who would argue that racism is learned early and can be so automatic or subconscious that those doing it don't often realize it - like the store owner who only follows black customers around. Being called a racist seems to almost always invoke a defensive response or denial, but perhaps it should invoke self examination too.
    It seems "Racist" is quickly losing its old really negative connotations and is becoming synonymous with just hateful or nasty, because it's being applied to everything.
    I think if the hate or nastiness is directed at a particular identifiable group of people, it could be argued it is racist or something similar. I think it used to be directed more towards overt and obvious actions, such as segregation and denying employment which have become less common over the years. Now it seems more about what is said and how it is said and that is sometimes less clear cut.

  71. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gord Lacey View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement
    That aspect of this I actually embrace. It was the sordid rekindling of US-Russian animosities that I found alarming.


    And who was doing the rekindling, exactly? The country that has invaded two of it's sovereign neighbors in the last decade and who is presently supporting a dictator that has slaughtered somewhere around half a million of his own people (a full order of magnitude more than his dad managed a half century earlier in Hama), and which has actually seized territory? Or the one saying "hey wait a second, seizing another nation's sovereign territory is not cool"? How many airliners has Obama shot down, exactly? How many opposition politicians and independent journalists has he had assassinated?

    Putin will not be appeased by Trump. He will take that as a sign of weakness, and continue his adventures in his backyard and abroad, carving out a larger and larger sphere of influence.
    As crazy as it sounds, my wife is somewhat happy that Trump won because many in the occupied area of Ukraine feel that it will mean the end of the war. Not that Ukraine will have won, but that Ukraine will pull out and cede the occupied territory around Donetsk.
    Many would describe it as an invasion by Russians, rather than a war. However, if the US acquiesces the Russians may just expand the invasion so the war moves to other parts of the country instead. I think the Russians want the whole country back under their control, not just part.
    Well, for people like my wife's grandparents and mother who are living there, it's a war. They don't really care who is at fault right now, they just want it over with, whether they're part of Ukraine, or Russia.
    They're going to park their car over there. You're going to park your car over here. Get it?

  72. #272

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    [I totally totally disagree on this. I think saying you want to round up and I believe deport 11 million people, puts you in certain company whether you like it or not.
    No it doesn't. Sending people who left a democratic country and illegally and unfairly snuck into another democratic country, back home to that democratic country (which is filled with beautiful beaches, an amazing history, and plenty of economic growth), is not the same as rounding up someone based on their race and exterminating them, and to sugest so is extremely offensive, IMO. It trivializes one of the worst atrocities ever, all you are doing is taking a view you disagree with (that border control / immigration laws can be enforced) and trying to turn it into mud based on your prejudices.
    I guess we have different opinions on mass deportations based on race or nationality. Mexico was a one party state before and often countries that start mass deportations cease being democracies before or around the time they do that sort of thing. I don't think it's a good path to go down and it can lead to a bad place. However, it is still a free country here and you have the right to be extremely offensive or offended if you want. If you want to call my opinions prejudices, please use the same term to refer to yours.

  73. #273

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    ^nobody is proposing a deportation based on race or nationality. They are proposing a deportation based on illegally overstaying in a country, or never having a visa to visit a country. Canada does it, the US does it, Mexico does it. That the US has failed to enforce its laws doesn't make it wrong to do so now. I fail to understand why you think its a huge crime to send people home, its basically an elitist / snobby liberal view that America is better than Mexico, and accordingly, its wrong to ever send someone back from America to there.
    Last edited by moahunter; 10-11-2016 at 05:52 PM.

  74. #274

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^nobody is proposing a deportation based on race or nationality. They are proposing a deportation based on illegally overstaying in a country, or never having a visa to visit a country. Canada does it, the US does it, Mexico does it. That the US has failed to enforce its laws doesn't make it wrong to do so now. I fail to understand why you think its a huge crime to send people home, its basically an elitist / snobby liberal view that America is better than Mexico, and accordingly, its wrong to ever send someone back from America to there.
    Really? When did Canada start mass deportations? The fact the US law hasn't been enforced for so many years says something about the law itself. I'm fairly sure Trump talked about deporting people to Mexico specifically not to Papua New Guinea or Canada, so it is about nationality.

  75. #275

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post

    Really? When did Canada start mass deportations?
    So its ok to jail one murder, or 100 murderors, but if it was 1,000 murderors it would be wrong? How about one car theif, versus 100 thieves versus 1,000 versus 1,000,000? So if you commit a crime with lots of other people, in your warped world, that makes it fine? What number is "good" in your books, versus "bad"? The law is the law, these people are cheats.

    Trump talked about deporting people to Mexico specifically
    Because that's the reality as studies have shown, the bulk of illegal immigrants in the US are Mexican, so clearly, the US has an issue on its border with Mexico which it needs to address along with other illegal immigration.
    Last edited by moahunter; 10-11-2016 at 06:10 PM.

  76. #276

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post

    Really? When did Canada start mass deportations?
    So its ok to jail one murder, or 100 murderors, but if it was 1,000 murderors it would be wrong? How about one car theif, versus 100 thieves versus 1,000 versus 1,000,000? So if you commit a crime with lots of other people, in your warped world, that makes it fine? What number is "good" in your books, versus "bad"? The law is the law, these people are cheats.

    Trump talked about deporting people to Mexico specifically
    Because that's the reality as studies have shown, the bulk of illegal immigrants in the US are Mexican, so clearly, the US has an issue on its border with Mexico which it needs to address along with other illegal immigration.
    I think the reason the US didn't much enforce the law for so long was in part because they needed workers to do the jobs that most Americans did not want to and perhaps they still do. The reason mass deportations got brought up this year was because it was helpful for Trump's campaign at the time, not because of any recent surge of illegal immigrants. If a law is was put in place a long time ago and millions of people are now not following it perhaps the better solution might be to look at changing the law rather than to try to start vigorously enforcing it now. I think you have to distinguish between how you handle more serious offenses and less serious ones too. That's probably the reason why Canada is not doing mass round ups of marijuana smokers right now.

  77. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^nobody is proposing a deportation based on race or nationality. They are proposing a deportation based on illegally overstaying in a country, or never having a visa to visit a country. Canada does it, the US does it, Mexico does it. That the US has failed to enforce its laws doesn't make it wrong to do so now. I fail to understand why you think its a huge crime to send people home, its basically an elitist / snobby liberal view that America is better than Mexico, and accordingly, its wrong to ever send someone back from America to there.
    emphasis added.

    doesn't make it wrong? true enough, but it doesn't make it right either.

    there are many laws "on the books" in many jurisdictions that are no longer enforced, most often with good reason. as near as i can tell, that's the case here as well, particularly for economic reasons.

    is the us entitled to enforce their laws? certainly they are "entitled" to. but that doesn't mean they should. even bush - who really did build a wall - didn't really think so.
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  78. #278

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    is the us entitled to enforce their laws? certainly they are "entitled" to. but that doesn't mean they should. even bush - who really did build a wall - didn't really think so.
    I think Bush's reasons were very different from Clinton's. He liked the cheap labor in the economy, the cheap housing, he liked seeing this underground segment of the population exploited, and was concerned if they were deported as opposed to legitimized, that wages would rise (which they will if it happens). The illegal immigrants, are holding back the success of America's working class, why would you pay a legit wage when you can get the same thing for a fraction of the cost via a dodgy subcontractor?
    Last edited by moahunter; 10-11-2016 at 07:27 PM.

  79. #279
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    my simple advice is never believe everything that media said about Trump. most media is pretty much left wing.
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  80. #280

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    My problem is not with Trump. It is with people who support him. They are filth.

    Here are some stories from the international media that explain why I feel this way.

    International Business Times UK

    The Globe and Mail

    Global News

    India Today
    Last edited by AShetsen; 10-11-2016 at 08:54 PM.

  81. #281

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^nobody is proposing a deportation based on race or nationality. They are proposing a deportation based on illegally overstaying in a country, or never having a visa to visit a country. Canada does it, the US does it, Mexico does it. That the US has failed to enforce its laws doesn't make it wrong to do so now. I fail to understand why you think its a huge crime to send people home, its basically an elitist / snobby liberal view that America is better than Mexico, and accordingly, its wrong to ever send someone back from America to there.
    emphasis added.

    doesn't make it wrong? true enough, but it doesn't make it right either.

    there are many laws "on the books" in many jurisdictions that are no longer enforced, most often with good reason. as near as i can tell, that's the case here as well, particularly for economic reasons.

    is the us entitled to enforce their laws? certainly they are "entitled" to. but that doesn't mean they should. even bush - who really did build a wall - didn't really think so.
    Yep. From a legal perspective, the three strikes law in California before it was amended in 2012 with Proposition 36 was utterly pointless - handing out life sentences for misdemeanours. Just because something is law doesn't mean it should be enforced, or as Ken pointed out, is enforced.

    There are stories popping up on undocumented Americans attending ivy league schools for medicine with plans to practice in the states. Most of them grew up from a young age in the states and only know their life in the states. The amount of undocumented people in the states varies a lot too. Have fun deporting them all. It may be nice for Trump to talk about it from some perspectives, but I honestly don't see it happening.
    Last edited by Moodib; 10-11-2016 at 08:24 PM.

  82. #282

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    ^this is not sending people to prison though, its sending them back to the democratic country they come from. If the US wanted tomorrow to open its border entirely and let anyone in, you and Kcantor might have a point, the law no longer is necessary. But that's not the choice. Its like saying to someone, "we know you committed murder, but because we didn't have enough police to catch you, you won't go to jail". There is nothing outrageous about correcting some-ones immigration status by returning them to their home country. The outrageous thing would be to say to other potential immigrants, "your best bet to become a US citizen is to sneak in, and one day we will give you amnesty".

  83. #283

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    ^Why not send YOU back to the country YOU came from?

    Seriously, why the hell not? What right do YOU have to be here? You were issued a paper by the government, were you? So what? There's something called due process that's a legal protection against the mass deportations Trump is proposing (but will never implement, whether his proposal is serious or not.) Since you chose to disregard legal protection from deportation for those YOU have no problem having deported, what gives YOU the right to any legal protection at all?

    People like moahunter have no right to be in Canada. They promote anti-Canadian values. Remove them at once!

    Don't squirm. I haven't said anything you haven't said. The only difference is that I don't mean the paragraph I underlined at all -- it's meant only as an illustration -- whereas you haven't disowned a word of what you've said.
    Last edited by AShetsen; 10-11-2016 at 08:53 PM.

  84. #284

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    Instead of hiring thousands of people to enforce a round up of illegal immigrants why not call an amnesty. Anyone in the States let them stay. Process the paperwork and make them legal. If they are on the wanted list for offences then deport them or hand them over to authorities. Then step up surveillance along the border where people are walking over into the states at places that are not border points. There is nothing wrong in people asking that anyone wanting to live in the states should go through the proper channels. It does not make them racist. Every body should start of with a level playing field.
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    There's been more than a few passing references from some Republicans to Mexicans as a cheap source of labor. Most recently from David Frum. Just this past week I saw an interview with a Hispanic newspaper reporter from Los Angeles who was talking about employment practices amongst Mexican business owners in California, specifically to his nephew who owned a restaurant. He stated that if he needed a new dishwasher he could just phone up someone from his old village in Mexico and he could get a new one within a week. Such are the cliques that even another Mexican would probably not get that job. The reporter went on to admit that the people most hurt by cheap Mexican labor were low wage earning American blacks and whites. Hispanics represent half of the population in California, they perform many of the low wage jobs.

    It is easy for us in Canada to be critical or comment on this from afar. We have the luxury of not bordering on a third world country. The scale of the problem in the US is highly problematic. So many illegal Hispanics are already in the country, performing many jobs including white collar office jobs, a part of the economy with many paying taxes. How do you begin to deal with the problem balancing all the various issues?
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  86. #286

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    Instead of hiring thousands of people to enforce a round up of illegal immigrants why not call an amnesty. Anyone in the States let them stay. Process the paperwork and make them legal. If they are on the wanted list for offences then deport them or hand them over to authorities. Then step up surveillance along the border where people are walking over into the states at places that are not border points. There is nothing wrong in people asking that anyone wanting to live in the states should go through the proper channels. It does not make them racist. Every body should start of with a level playing field.
    Amnesty. I think they've already done that - twice! The numbers are incredible. Many millions in just a generation or two.

    Maybe more...

    THE SEVEN AMNESTIES PASSED BY CONGRESS
    https://www.numbersusa.com/content/l...-congress.html

    The US could build their wall, then allow more people to come in legally, no one would notice, and everyone would be happy. Instead they have been rewarding illegal immigrants with amnesties.
    Last edited by KC; 10-11-2016 at 10:53 PM.

  87. #287
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    Instead of hiring thousands of people to enforce a round up of illegal immigrants why not call an amnesty. Anyone in the States let them stay. Process the paperwork and make them legal. If they are on the wanted list for offences then deport them or hand them over to authorities. Then step up surveillance along the border where people are walking over into the states at places that are not border points. There is nothing wrong in people asking that anyone wanting to live in the states should go through the proper channels. It does not make them racist. Every body should start of with a level playing field.
    As nice as that sounds, 30-40 crossing the border is a lot! Ask the States that are near that border what its like..

  88. #288

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^this is not sending people to prison though, its sending them back to the democratic country they come from. If the US wanted tomorrow to open its border entirely and let anyone in, you and Kcantor might have a point, the law no longer is necessary. But that's not the choice. Its like saying to someone, "we know you committed murder, but because we didn't have enough police to catch you, you won't go to jail". There is nothing outrageous about correcting some-ones immigration status by returning them to their home country. The outrageous thing would be to say to other potential immigrants, "your best bet to become a US citizen is to sneak in, and one day we will give you amnesty".
    You can't say this isn't about sending people to prison and then use an example of murder and jail to make your point about immigration. But if you're going to use a double negative in your own post, I might as well continue with your example of comparing immigration to murder. It isn't at all like saying we know you committed murder. It isn't even close. The amount of undocumented immigrants in the states is massive. The amount of murderers running around that haven't been caught is relatively small. I don't think you quite understand the amount of work and man hours it would take to deport all the undocumented people that currently live in the states.

  89. #289

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    ^^and the alternative would be hiring thousands of enforcers at a cost of millions to round up millions of illegals who will no doubt head further east and north into the U S interior. Maybe not all of them but a few million will not want to go back to Mexico. What happens to the ones born in the U S of illegal parents?. It's not going to be easy. One thing I can say about Trump though is that he seems to be fairly quick on the uptake. I think he can learn real fast on his feet. I think he will learn fast that some or his rhetoric on the campaign trail is not going to work very well when he has to implement it.
    Last edited by Gemini; 10-11-2016 at 11:29 PM.
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    Trump was talking about "draining the swamp" but its not going to be that easy. A lot of his talking points won't be easy to pull off. NAFTA for instance is going to cost the US Billions just from Mexico alone. Not just that but there are licensing agreements that will tie up the courts for years. Most of Trump's platform was showmanship. Appealing to the masses. He might get away with immigration, but even then that's going to tie up the court system.
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  91. #291
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    Maybe if Rach gets out her makeup kit and talks nice Trump will take a liking to her. He loves the ladies. lol
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  92. #292
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    My post has nothing to do with what I think, or what you think, get it?
    Last edited by Drumbones; 11-11-2016 at 05:08 AM.

  93. #293

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    "Love the fact that the small groups of protesters last night have passion for our great country. We will all come together and be proud!"

    - President Elect Donald Trump on Twitter

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    ^^and the alternative would be hiring thousands of enforcers at a cost of millions to round up millions of illegals who will no doubt head further east and north into the U S interior. Maybe not all of them but a few million will not want to go back to Mexico. What happens to the ones born in the U S of illegal parents?. It's not going to be easy. One thing I can say about Trump though is that he seems to be fairly quick on the uptake. I think he can learn real fast on his feet. I think he will learn fast that some or his rhetoric on the campaign trail is not going to work very well when he has to implement it.
    Here's something the Beeb had on that: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-34789502
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    "Love the fact that the small groups of protesters last night have passion for our great country. We will all come together and be proud!"

    - President Elect Donald Trump on Twitter

    Ok, that sounds a bit presidential.

    But why did he tweet only shortly before?

    "Now professional protesters, incited by the media, are protesting. Very unfair!"

    Which Trump do we believe? He has a habit of responding with two completely different points of view on the same subject.

    Yesterday Trump said that Obama was great. I am surprised that the Right Wing Media did not call Trump a traitor to their cause.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AShetsen View Post
    My problem is not with Trump. It is with people who support him. They are filth.

    Here are some stories from the international media that explain why I feel this way.

    International Business Times UK

    The Globe and Mail

    Global News

    India Today
    This is applicable to Canada just as well as America. Time for left wing nut bars to dial it back a bit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    [
    I think treating someone badly or unjustly because of their race, creed or colour is probably a fairly good starting point for calling something racism. Of course there is a lot grey in that - pandering to others prejudice for ones own advantage might be racist (ex. hire me rather than Joe because people like that are lazy) and just because someone feels badly or unjustly treated doesn't mean it is racially motivated (ex. if the women who got cut off in traffic is black, it could be just because the guy ahead was a jerk in a hurry). Also, there are those who would argue that racism is learned early and can be so automatic or subconscious that those doing it don't often realize it - like the store owner who only follows black customers around. Being called a racist seems to almost always invoke a defensive response or denial, but perhaps it should invoke self examination too.
    Sorry for singling out your post Dave. But you're one of the few willing to actually engage in discourse on this topic and your comments have been interesting to respond to.

    First, the "because of their race" above is inferential. How does one establish that specific treatment is due to race, and prejudice? For instance a large segment of black people, Hispanic people, are mistreated on a daily basis in the USA. Economically forced to live and work in squalid conditions that would be mostly unimaginable here in Canada. This is primarily an economic and rights based phenomenon for various reasons in a country that practices economic apartheid complete with gated communities and ghetto slums.

    Mistreatment in the land of the free is pervasive and doesn't stop there. It continues with the ultimate in segregation being the imposed apartheid of incarceration and inordinate jailing of different ethnic populations.

    As I stated earlier racial strife in the USA is nothing new. Attitudes of vast fly over regions of the US are nothing new. Typical US feigned shock and appalled reactions are nothing new in a land where unrest, disparity, divide are known and constant. Just that now they have Trump to blame for a couple hundred years of debasement.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  99. #299

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    Even though this U S election cycle put out two very iffy and different candidates. Non U S A citizens no doubt had their own candidate they wanted to win. For sure a lot of them were routing for Trump and I don't think for one second they are all racists. Let's face it. The disenfranchised in the U S have been that way for a long time. Treading water for years on end and never getting ahead. Grinding poverty, food stamps, no jobs, crumbling main streets and rampant drug addictions in small towns. Middle class people losing their jobs then homes during the prime time mortgage crash. A very bleak picture for some. They know Trump lives in an ivory tower but somehow he has convinced them he's the guy that will get them back on their feet. I'm not Trump supporter but if he can instill some hope to these people then the least people can do is give him a chance to do it. Protests and riots are not going to help. Protesting because your candidate did not win in a democratic election is counterproductive. Where Trump supporters seen hope and change his distractors see racism, misogyny and a liar, some thing he just tells it like it is. That's human nature for you. Trump is only one person in the political spectrum. He will not be able to make sweeping changes without them being studied to death. It's going to take at least 6 months for the republicans to get up to speed. If Trump screws up he'll get the boot in four years. In another two years (or sooner) we will be hearing who else will be eyeing a run for the Whitehouse). The only thing Clinton supporters have to fear is fear itself. Should be interesting to see how they act on his inauguration day.
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    This is very intersting http://www.thespec.com/news-story/69...ted-for-trump/

    intelligent woman,, Unlike the paid protesters in various cities breaking thing, thanks again Soros.

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