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Thread: President Donald Trump What Now

  1. #1

    Default President Donald Trump What Now

    We live in interesting times............
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

  2. #2

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    Well he does not seem as orange while making his first presidential speech. Maybe he has ditched the canned tanned.
    He's saying their infrastructure will be second to none, they will get along with other nations, U S A will treat everyone fairly. Sounds bigly and bullchitty at the same time.
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

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    I would like to start off with the Supreme Court. A lot will depend on whether his Supreme Court appointments are in the mould of Scalia who was a strict constitutionalist. Affirmitive action could likely be gone, Roe vs Wade overturned, etc. On the other hand even conservative judges don't always behave according to conservative wishes such as the case of Judge Roberts who basically shifted the court in favor of Obamacare.

    Ultimately, one hopes that he Supreme court acts in with some degree of compassion and a sense of justice as it is impossible for the Constitution to cover every possible issue.
    Last edited by norwoodguy; 09-11-2016 at 01:04 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    He's saying their infrastructure will be second to none, they will get along with other nations, U S A will treat everyone fairly. Sounds bigly and bullchitty at the same time.
    Infrastructure could be a big long term employer if manufacturing does not return as expected. Hopefully he and his staff already have ideas on where projects can be fast tracked. Certainly there are a lot of bridges to repair. Could this be his pragmatic side showing?
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    Well this sounds promising, a conciliatory tone:

    “I just received a call from Secretary Clinton. She congratulated us, it’s about us, on our victory, and I congratulated her and her family on a very, very hard fought campaign. She fought it very well. Hillary has worked very long and very hard over a long period of time, and we owe her a major debt of gratitude to our country.”
    The Guardian
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  6. #6

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    Boy is he setting his believers up for a major sugar crash.
    I feel in no way entitled to your opinion...

  7. #7

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    I have no idea how this affects either the U.S. or Canada or Edmonton specifically.

    Probably more important that the Republicans control both the House and the Senate, and sortof are affiliated with Rob Ford Donald Trump.

    How's his health?
    Let's make Edmonton better.

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    Putin just licked his lips a little.

  9. #9

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    The good news is Keystone XL is now live. Bad news for Notley who used to speak against Keystone.

    Terrible news for Trudeau and his carbon taxes. Whereas we used to have someone in the white house who pretended climate change mattered but didn't do anything meaningful about it, we now have someone who correctly recognizes it doesn't matter. Curious what happens to the Parris accord now, great news for the US if other countries are stupid enough to implement it, while they continue to use carbon to keep their costs lower / win jobs. Trump repeatedly spoke even in favor of the coal industry. I expect most countries will do, what they did, with Kyoto, nothing - talk about climate change but not implement changes. If Trudeau does otherwise, he will now set us up for competitive economic failure and poverty.
    Last edited by moahunter; 09-11-2016 at 05:17 AM.

  10. #10

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    I had 12 American refugees seeking asylum, show up at my house last night.

    I expect more today...
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  11. #11

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    The Brexit/Storming of the Bastille event. Hopefully Trump will come to the center, and indications are that he is. No calls to throw Hillary in jail do far...

    Maybe he can actually change the government for the better with his huge mandate.

    I doubt it but then everyone doubted that he could win the GOP nomination.
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  12. #12

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    ^people are tired of academic elites who know nothing about the real world outside their ivory towers, living off their tax dollars and telling them how to live. If you break laws, if you sneak into countries, you don't deserve to live happily ever after in that country. This is great news for us in Alberta, with Keystone XL, and hopefully Trans Mountain, there will be excess pipeline capacity - old sands projects can become viable again as soon as Notleys crew is thrown out of office.

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    Amen

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    Maybe if Rach gets out her makeup kit and talks nice Trump will take a liking to her. He loves the ladies. lol

  15. #15

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    The media has had a crazy effect on some people. Some people are saying that he is just going to start rounding up minorities, very sad.

  16. #16

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    I predict Saudi Arabia is going to ask for their money back.

  17. #17

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    Borntohula, Don't shoot the messenger

    It was not the media but Trump himself who was talking about rounding up people. I was listening to a Trump supporter yesterday, who was in line to vote and he agreed with Trump and wanted to see that Syrians be not given refugee status. He stated that in WWII, the Japanese in America were not treated as refugees but rounded up and put in camps. He made no mention that most of Japanese American had their civil rights violated.

    Example

    Trump supporter fearing Muslim ‘gang rapes’ floats World War II internment camps on CNN

    https://www.rawstory.com/2016/08/tru...-camps-on-cnn/
    Betsy McCaughey, a surrogate for Donald Trump’s presidential campaign, suggested World War II-style internment camps for Muslim refugees on Tuesday because she said that American women were being exposed to “gang rapes.”
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  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    I predict Saudi Arabia is going to ask for their money back.
    Putin got his money's worth last night...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Putin got his money's worth last night...
    Recruiting Assange was the biggest intelligence coup of the past 50 years. Redress the balance of power without firing a shot or having to spend zillions on the military.
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  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Borntohula, Don't shoot the messenger

    It was not the media but Trump himself who was talking about rounding up people. I was listening to a Trump supporter yesterday, who was in line to vote and he agreed with Trump and wanted to see that Syrians be not given refugee status. He stated that in WWII, the Japanese in America were not treated as refugees but rounded up and put in camps. He made no mention that most of Japanese American had their civil rights violated.

    Example

    Trump supporter fearing Muslim ‘gang rapes’ floats World War II internment camps on CNN

    https://www.rawstory.com/2016/08/tru...-camps-on-cnn/
    Betsy McCaughey, a surrogate for Donald Trump’s presidential campaign, suggested World War II-style internment camps for Muslim refugees on Tuesday because she said that American women were being exposed to “gang rapes.”

    There you have folks, this confirms the roundup is on! Some loser surrogate and a guy in line. Im sure the congress, senate and supreme court will fall in line.

  21. #21

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    It's really time to separate Trump from his supporters.

    As the desperate or bigoted bunch (two bunches that must be sharply distinguished) that voted for him there and that support him here are about to find out, a business negotiator is at bottom about the business he wants to transact, not the feel-good tripe that it takes to get support for this business.

    The lynch-loving emotional pieces of shіt that have wanted to round up Mexicans and Moslems, burn down the so-called leftist media they themselves are addicted to and therefore hate, and put the god-damn female bіtches and lousy Africans in their place have just given their votes away but good.

    [The above sentence is written in the language the cowardly bigoted portion of Trump's supporters use in private and in public to some extent when their little willies think they can get away with it, but are usually too insecure to give full voice to except through insinuation and obscenity-hiding acronyms. It's them talking, not me. And if you don't believe me, check out Twitter and the online forums. I only censored myself in one spot there -- Twitter does not. ]

    Anyway, we are about to find out what Trump is about, and my guess is that like all successful alphas, he is about himself, not about the insignificant hateful rubbish he panders to. I am mostly relieved because he is not an ideologue about the one thing that truly matters in the end -- nuclear super-power confrontation. I suspect we will never see any walls built, or really huge military investments, but we'll probably see tariffs re-installed, but hardly blanket ones. And there the revolution will end, with the bigoted scum-bags that are now triumphant being the most disappointed of all.

    As for Trump's support in Canada, it is particularly pathetic. This thread is as good a demonstration of that as any. It is complete with gloating against Captain Selfie, and gloatingly self-destructive predictions about how the very free trade the rightist scum pretend to support will be emasculated. Our own little claque of Trumpists is even more a parody of itself than the great American sold-out noisy un-majority that thinks it won the election.

    Will Trump really improve things for the certain group of unhateful people that voted for him out of economic desperation? Very much so. By tariffs. To the great benefit of Americans of his class. But at a great cost to the economic world order. And to the Canadian trade-based economy.

    In the meantime I am not American, and I'm very happy I am not. Tariffs will not be to our advantage but -- not for the first time in Canadian history -- it really does seem we have no choice but to turn aways from the USA as much as we can. And that too is a good thing.

    Bring on free trade with Europe and China!
    Last edited by AShetsen; 09-11-2016 at 08:56 AM.

  22. #22

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    Some good news on the world peace front already:

    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-us...-idUSKBN1340YK

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    Quote Originally Posted by borntohula View Post
    There you have folks, this confirms the roundup is on! Some loser surrogate and a guy in line. Im sure the congress, senate and supreme court will fall in line.
    On the whole I'm less concerned about the lunatic fringe's influence on direct government policy but more on day to day civility if people feel free to be openly hostile.
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  24. #24

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    A very classy and articulate speech from the respected Van Jones on CNN last night.


    Emotional Van Jones: How do I explain this to my children?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    A very classy and articulate speech from the respected Van Jones on CNN last night.


    Emotional Van Jones: How do I explain this to my children?
    Bottom line, he's a poor loser putting his own disaster spin on it.

  26. #26

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    What a drama queen.

  27. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^people are tired of academic elites who know nothing about the real world outside their ivory towers, living off their tax dollars and telling them how to live. If you break laws, if you sneak into countries, you don't deserve to live happily ever after in that country. This is great news for us in Alberta, with Keystone XL, and hopefully Trans Mountain, there will be excess pipeline capacity - old sands projects can become viable again as soon as Notleys crew is thrown out of office.
    Have you bought your oil sand co shares yet? Which companies are you buying?

  28. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    What a drama queen.
    Much like you.

    Time to start thinking a bit deeper about issues and putting to use some of you brain cells maybe. As you can tell, I'm growing tired of a lot of the emotional spin I see here.

  29. #29

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    Exit polls show Trump had higher support among both Hispanics and Blacks than Romney in 2012, and that compared to Obama, Hillary lost support in these groups as well:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...nd-female-vot/

  30. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    What a drama queen.
    Much like you.
    Ha ha.

  31. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    What a drama queen.
    Much like you.
    Ha ha.
    I added more. Intellectually, you can do better but it takes some actual work on your part.

    These are Americans that feel directly impacted. All gloves are off down there.

    We however can sit here objectively and assess the crazyiness down there.
    Last edited by KC; 09-11-2016 at 09:06 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Bottom line, he's a poor loser putting his own disaster spin on it.
    There is a danger in being overly cynical but then we have the luxury of not being an African American.

    Van Jones is a successful respected man, he got along well with the Trump supporters on the CNN panel, they were civil and despite sometimes heated exchanges there was often a smile or chuckle exchanged. Not all Trump supporters are angels but neither are all of them monsters. Best not to seek out the monsters but the more level headed.
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  33. #33

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    A good day to be a white straight male.

    Perhaps, not so much for all other parties involved. I have friends in the states that are quite fearful. Easy to sit at your keyboard and spout a bunch of nonsense about how everything is going to be okay.

    https://www.buzzfeed.com/ishmaeldaro...5e#.sbldNeR8NL

  34. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Exit polls show Trump had higher support among both Hispanics and Blacks than Romney in 2012, and that compared to Obama, Hillary lost support in these groups as well:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...nd-female-vot/
    Interesting. It shows that women won't just go out and vote for women. I hope that the men didn't just go out and vote fore the man. Hopefully voters considered merit and best for the job attributes a prime considerations.

  35. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    What a drama queen.
    Much like you.
    Ha ha.
    I added more. Intellectually, you can do better but it takes some actual work on your part.

    I merely pointed out (in not so many words) that I thought that CNN commentator was being really overdramatic.

    The US will be fine. The world will be fine.

    We will see Trump do what every President does - surround himself with decision-makers and advisers who will keep his wackiest ideas in check. And in the meantime, the 2 parties can spend the next 4 years figuring out what they did to mess up so badly that THIS was the outcome.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Exit polls show Trump had higher support among both Hispanics and Blacks than Romney in 2012, and that compared to Obama, Hillary lost support in these groups as well:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...nd-female-vot/
    I'm going to toot my own horn and say that I beat the Telegraph to their analysis on this THREAD
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  37. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by norwoodguy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Bottom line, he's a poor loser putting his own disaster spin on it.
    There is a danger in being overly cynical but then we have the luxury of not being an African American.

    Van Jones is a successful respected man, he got along well with the Trump supporters on the CNN panel, they were civil and despite sometimes heated exchanges there was often a smile or chuckle exchanged. Not all Trump supporters are angels but neither are all of them monsters. Best not to seek out the monsters but the more level headed.
    I've worked with lawyers that did what he just did. When they lose an argument they take a backhanded or underhanded approach as they still argue they are actually right. However, I understand the reality for those losing this election is very different and they see this as a never ending war.

  38. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moodib View Post
    A good day to be a white straight male.

    Perhaps, not so much for all other parties involved. I have friends in the states that are quite fearful. Easy to sit at your keyboard and spout a bunch of nonsense about how everything is going to be okay.

    https://www.buzzfeed.com/ishmaeldaro...5e#.sbldNeR8NL
    It will be ok if not great for some. For others it will literally be a calamity maybe even leading to their death as nutcases figure they can do any harm to others that they want to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    I've worked with lawyers that did what he just did. When they lose an argument they take a backhanded or underhanded approach as they still argue they are actually right. However, I understand the reality for those losing this election is very different and they see this as a never ending war.
    Unfortunately, we are biologically programmed with a degree of bias towards others not of our kind. The key is acknowledging it and not letting it overwhelm our judgement. At the end of the day it's how we treat each other on a personal level that matters. America has too many people who don't follow that paradigm and it is to their detriment.

    EDIT

    There is a doc on HBO called Class Divide which looks at the gentrification taking place in Manhattan's Chelsea district where a private school with $40k tuition sits across the street from public housing.

    They interview both the kids from the school and the poorer kids living in the projects. One of the private school kids takes on a project to reach out the poorer kids and takes them on a guided tour of the school. One of the black kids from the projects makes an astute observation that the differences in America is perhaps less one of color and more that of class (i.e. wealth).
    Last edited by norwoodguy; 09-11-2016 at 09:29 AM.
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  40. #40

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    Here's something better than useless polls where no one answers their phones.

    But these two articles need some fact checking themselves...



    Get ready for President Trump, says election whiz who’s scary accurate
    By Bob Fredericks February 25, 2016

    ...
    One major assumption is that a party that has held the Oval Office for two consecutive terms is less likely to win another term.

    Norpoth applied his model, which he created in 1996, to every presidential election going back to 1912, and it worked for every one — with the exception of 1960, when John F. Kennedy narrowly defeated Richard Nixon.

    “When I started out with this kind of display a few months ago, I thought it was sort of a joke,” Norpoth said of his 2016 results.

    “Well, I’ll tell you right now, it ain’t a joke anymore.

    “You think, ‘This is crazy. How can anything come up with something like that?’ ” Norpoth told the audience.

    “But that’s exactly the kind of equation I used to predict Bill Clinton winning in ’96, that I used to predict that George Bush would win in 2004, and, as you remember four years ago, that Obama would win in 2012,” he said.

    The probability of a Trump win is “almost ‘take it to the bank,’ ” he said.


    Election wiz predicts Donald Trump will win Oval Office

    By Bob Fredericks October 24, 2016 | 10:01pm | Updated


    Norpoth developed a model that, applied retroactively in earlier races, would have correctly predicted the winner of every presidential election since 1912 — with the exception of 2000, when predicted winner Al Gore barely lost to George W. Bush.
    ...


    While the political ground has shifted dramatically since Norpoth first made his call, he’s not budging on the outcome.

    “The model predicted a Trump win in February and nothing has changed since then. Whatever happens in the real world doesn’t affect the model,” he said.

    ...


    http://nypost.com/2016/10/24/electio...-win-election/

  41. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by norwoodguy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    I've worked with lawyers that did what he just did. When they lose an argument they take a backhanded or underhanded approach as they still argue they are actually right. However, I understand the reality for those losing this election is very different and they see this as a never ending war.
    Unfortunately, we are biologically programmed with a degree of bias towards others not of our kind. The key is acknowledging it and not letting it overwhelm our judgement. At the end of the day it's how we treat each other on a personal level that matters. America has too many people who don't follow that paradigm and it is to their detriment.
    It's hard to say that it is to their detriment. There are many people that don't care about others at a personal level and at the end of the day, all they care about is themselves. They can even make bad judgements based on their innate biases, yet survive quite well, while creating disasters for others. They can be the worst of bullies in the knowledge that bullies often win. It's an age old and proven successful strategy.

    So, we can't be blinded to reality by our sense of morality and a belief that everyone 'gets what they deserve in the end'.

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    So where's buildthemhigh?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Some good news on the world peace front already:

    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-us...-idUSKBN1340YK
    Its a real, and valuable benefit. Not sure in present day and age people find it all that alarming that the US should have better relations with Russia.

    That aspect of this I actually embrace. It was the sordid rekindling of US-Russian animosities that I found alarming.


    As far as the election result last night a lot of it is"

    "Its better to know"

    To bad the American public knew the Clintons are criminals and scoundrels that are only out for more self serving office. This ended up being too bad choices, and I leave that to the Democrats and Republicans to sort that out. This was a monumentally terrible choice for the American public.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    What a drama queen.
    Much like you.
    Ha ha.
    I added more. Intellectually, you can do better but it takes some actual work on your part.

    I merely pointed out (in not so many words) that I thought that CNN commentator was being really overdramatic.

    The US will be fine. The world will be fine.

    We will see Trump do what every President does - surround himself with decision-makers and advisers who will keep his wackiest ideas in check. And in the meantime, the 2 parties can spend the next 4 years figuring out what they did to mess up so badly that THIS was the outcome.
    This exactly. Few times I agree with your take.
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  45. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moodib View Post
    A good day to be a white straight male.

    Perhaps, not so much for all other parties involved. I have friends in the states that are quite fearful. Easy to sit at your keyboard and spout a bunch of nonsense about how everything is going to be okay.

    https://www.buzzfeed.com/ishmaeldaro...5e#.sbldNeR8NL

    This woman's comments are racist and bigoted. Many of these "uneducated white racists" helped elect Obama for two terms.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    It's hard to say that it is to their detriment. There are many people that don't care about others at a personal level and at the end of the day, all they care about is themselves. They can even make bad judgements based on their innate biases, yet survive quite well, while creating disasters for others. They can be the worst of bullies in the knowledge that bullies often win. It's an age old and proven successful strategy.

    So, we can't be blinded to reality by our sense of morality and a belief that everyone 'gets what they deserve in the end'.
    I guess it all depends on what wants from life. If your values are built purely around material things and wealth then I suppose there is no detriment but if one wants to live in a society with less tension and less fear then America is not ideal. I always feel a sense of relief when I return from trips to the US (or other parts of the world for that matter). Of course Canada is not nirvana either, our indigenous peoples are disadvantaged to a large extent but Canada on the whole is a calmer place.
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  47. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by norwoodguy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    It's hard to say that it is to their detriment. There are many people that don't care about others at a personal level and at the end of the day, all they care about is themselves. They can even make bad judgements based on their innate biases, yet survive quite well, while creating disasters for others. They can be the worst of bullies in the knowledge that bullies often win. It's an age old and proven successful strategy.

    So, we can't be blinded to reality by our sense of morality and a belief that everyone 'gets what they deserve in the end'.
    I guess it all depends on what wants from life. If your values are built purely around material things and wealth then I suppose there is no detriment but if one wants to live in a society with less tension and less fear then America is not ideal. I always feel a sense of relief when I return from trips to the US (or other parts of the world for that matter). Of course Canada is not nirvana either, our indigenous peoples are disadvantaged to a large extent but Canada on the whole is a calmer place.
    Agree. You left out power which makes the pursuit of material things and wealth pale in comparison. The thing is, what you want from life may not matter one iota. Others can and do decide the fate, in the worst way, of many of those people just seeking that 'good' society.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    A very classy and articulate speech from the respected Van Jones on CNN last night.


    Emotional Van Jones: How do I explain this to my children?
    Bottom line, he's a poor loser putting his own disaster spin on it.
    How do you explain it? You explain that the US is still largely a fly over nation with several states, areas that continue to have vastly different political leanings, beliefs, and that the civil war didn't really end that. The US exists in a perpetual state of flux over race relations, economic rights, middle class interests.

    I would say fear motivated this election result. But not the easily deferred to racial fear. Moreso decades of losing jobs, homes, middle class positions, livelihood, has resulted in this reactive response to say no to the continued course of America. I think the worst possible tone of "we want America back" is viewed in immigration policy. Perhaps the most reasonable view is people wanting some prosperity back. Some livelihood back. I doubt it will happen, but I think that was the bigger motivation.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Perhaps the most reasonable view is people wanting some prosperity back. Some livelihood back. I doubt it will happen, but I think that was the bigger motivation.
    Yes l agree wholeheartedly. The natural human response is to blame others for one's woes but prosperity generally brings more contentment. The worst part about the racial divide is the class distinction that it imposes. If prosperity was more equally distributed there would be less strife. There are places like Georgia where there is a large and prosperous black middle class (or the suburbs surrounding DC for that matter) and generally speaking things are very calm and peaceful.

    In Houston there is large immigrant community that is successful and well integrated that defies the image of a redneck Texas.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by norwoodguy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    I've worked with lawyers that did what he just did. When they lose an argument they take a backhanded or underhanded approach as they still argue they are actually right. However, I understand the reality for those losing this election is very different and they see this as a never ending war.
    Unfortunately, we are biologically programmed with a degree of bias towards others not of our kind. The key is acknowledging it and not letting it overwhelm our judgement. At the end of the day it's how we treat each other on a personal level that matters. America has too many people who don't follow that paradigm and it is to their detriment.
    It's hard to say that it is to their detriment. There are many people that don't care about others at a personal level and at the end of the day, all they care about is themselves. They can even make bad judgements based on their innate biases, yet survive quite well, while creating disasters for others. They can be the worst of bullies in the knowledge that bullies often win. It's an age old and proven successful strategy.

    So, we can't be blinded to reality by our sense of morality and a belief that everyone 'gets what they deserve in the end'.
    Agree with this and I'm not sure how the election result really changes the view. This America was present before, after, and during this election campaign. Maybe an unseen America as many pundits are saying but more in the limelight in this aftermath. The bullies comment particularly I don't get. America was founded on bloodshed, war, strife, genocide, slavery and its odd to me that it pretends those things are not there. I think in the typical American idealism about being the "best country on Earth" theres continual denial about what the nation actually owes itself to. Perhaps reminders of that are not altogether bad things. Vigilance will result from this, and its more than due.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement
    That aspect of this I actually embrace. It was the sordid rekindling of US-Russian animosities that I found alarming.


    And who was doing the rekindling, exactly? The country that has invaded two of it's sovereign neighbors in the last decade and who is presently supporting a dictator that has slaughtered somewhere around half a million of his own people (a full order of magnitude more than his dad managed a half century earlier in Hama), and which has actually seized territory? Or the one saying "hey wait a second, seizing another nation's sovereign territory is not cool"? How many airliners has Obama shot down, exactly? How many opposition politicians and independent journalists has he had assassinated?

    Putin will not be appeased by Trump. He will take that as a sign of weakness, and continue his adventures in his backyard and abroad, carving out a larger and larger sphere of influence.

  52. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    A very classy and articulate speech from the respected Van Jones on CNN last night.


    Emotional Van Jones: How do I explain this to my children?
    Bottom line, he's a poor loser putting his own disaster spin on it.
    How do you explain it? You explain that the US is still largely a fly over nation with several states, areas that continue to have vastly different political leanings, beliefs, and that the civil war didn't really end that. The US exists in a perpetual state of flux over race relations, economic rights, middle class interests.

    I would say fear motivated this election result. But not the easily deferred to racial fear. Moreso decades of losing jobs, homes, middle class positions, livelihood, has resulted in this reactive response to say no to the continued course of America. I think the worst possible tone of "we want America back" is viewed in immigration policy. Perhaps the most reasonable view is people wanting some prosperity back. Some livelihood back. I doubt it will happen, but I think that was the bigger motivation.
    Exactly. People like to summarize complexity into overly simplistic terms, often defining themselves in terms others have given them. Everyone there had a different perception, opinion and motivation. Their feelings are very real and that is their reality.

    I remember in the 2000s all the factories being shut down and shifted to China. Maybe because I used a Bloomberg Professional which provided an amazing dept of business information, but I saw a massive shift of industry and jobs offshore, and ever rising executive compensation and bonuses and gains by the wealthy, all under the Bush administration. All the while, people were borrowing more and more for non-productive assets like housing, massive government spending was occurring on military expenditures, etc. Trade deals, superior Chinese competition, etc. has essentially meant that the US has provided welfare to the world and it was just a matter of time until a price had to be paid for that. Large numbers of people are simply ****** off at being written off, with no attention being given to their needs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement
    That aspect of this I actually embrace. It was the sordid rekindling of US-Russian animosities that I found alarming.


    And who was doing the rekindling, exactly? The country that has invaded two of it's sovereign neighbors in the last decade and who is presently supporting a dictator that has slaughtered somewhere around half a million of his own people (a full order of magnitude more than his dad managed a half century earlier in Hama), and which has actually seized territory? Or the one saying "hey wait a second, seizing another nation's sovereign territory is not cool"?

    How many airliners has Obama shot down, exactly?
    You can't see that both superpowers have been guilty of similar? Not going to get into this discussion as its an out and out change of topic from the thread. Feel free to discuss it in another thread. This one is for people that want to discuss the election, what it means, what caused it, and its impacts. Decades of superpower foreign policy and imperialist action? No, we won't solve that topic here.
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  54. #54

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    ^^ Van Jones was asking the Trump team to reassure the population that the divisive speeches that Trump gave are pushed aside to be the President of ALL the people.

    Do you see anything wrong with that?
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  55. #55

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    One portion of the USA takes it as a core value that the USA is the world. They "lost" yesterday.
    The other does not. They "won".

    In the same way it is high time for all of us to stop pretending we are somehow American. To stop talking about the USA as though we are; to stop taking on moral or intellectual authority what Americans, including Trump and Trumpists, say. To remember what we actually are.

    If we do that all will be well.

  56. #56

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    Clinton made a very positive concession speech.

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...ticle32757304/
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Clinton made a very positive concession speech.

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...ticle32757304/
    One she could have and should have made last night. I guess she was too busy consoling Lady Gaga and Cher...

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    I remember in the 2000s all the factories being shut down and shifted to China. Maybe because I used a Bloomberg Professional which provided an amazing dept of business information, but I saw a massive shift of industry and jobs offshore, and ever rising executive compensation and bonuses and gains by the wealthy, all under the Bush administration. All the while, people were borrowing more and more for non-productive assets like housing, massive government spending was occurring on military expenditures, etc. Trade deals, superior Chinese competition, etc. has essentially meant that the US has provided welfare to the world and it was just a matter of time until a price had to be paid for that. Large numbers of people are simply ****** off at being written off, with no attention being given to their needs.
    Much of the blame falls on the lap of government policies and America's antithesis towards socialism. If healthcare and education weren't so expensive the middle class wouldn't feel so squeezed. The adherence to trickle down economics and corporate welfare did nothing to help the average worker. Most western countries have seen a loss of manufacturing jobs and there obviously has been pain in central Canada but you don't see the same degree of despair that one sees in America.

    As for the rise of China, the west embraced its economic rise in part to bring it into fold of the world community and be less of a perceived threat. However, once China put its mind to it you simply could not deny its rise to prominence by virtue of its sheer size of population.

    As well, automation and AI will further decrease the availability of certain jobs. The long term trends cannot be denied.
    Last edited by norwoodguy; 09-11-2016 at 10:14 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    ^^ Van Jones was asking the Trump team to reassure the population that the divisive speeches that Trump gave are pushed aside to be the President of ALL the people.

    Do you see anything wrong with that?
    Wouldn't surprise me that it occurs in some way and involving Trump, his team, party, and olive branches extended. The President of the United States of America is a very regulated position. Sometimes much more figurehead than otherwise. That Trump is politically lazy will actually afford that to be more the case and that he will defer mostly to a good team of advisors, peers.

    Increasing tensions and raising alarms arguably does more harm than good at this point. This election result occurred. Better to work together in the aftermath to sort it out.


    Theres some pretty interesting other things I can mention I won't get into.
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  60. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by edTel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Clinton made a very positive concession speech.

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...ticle32757304/
    One she could have and should have made last night. I guess she was too busy consoling Lady Gaga and Cher...
    It was a very late night

    Some things are better said after a good nights sleep.

    I have no doubt, if it went the opposite way, especially with Clinton winning the popular vote, if Trump lost but won the popular vote, he would be today screaming at the top of his lungs that the election was rigged and sending a team of lawyers to contest the election.
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 09-11-2016 at 10:16 AM.
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  61. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by edTel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Clinton made a very positive concession speech.

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...ticle32757304/
    One she could have and should have made last night. I guess she was too busy consoling Lady Gaga and Cher...
    It was a very late night

    Some things are better said after a good nights sleep.
    You're making excuses for her. We all know the expectation. Had she won, she'd have been up there talking.

  62. #62

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    I am not making excuses. She was stunned by the upset. All her supporters were stunned.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by edTel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Clinton made a very positive concession speech.

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...ticle32757304/
    One she could have and should have made last night. I guess she was too busy consoling Lady Gaga and Cher...
    It was a very late night

    Some things are better said after a good nights sleep.
    Not when you have a room full of supporters who have been waiting many hours to hear from her. They deserved something more than John Podesta telling them to go home and wait for "more information". I bet she didn't even have a concession speech prepared just like she didn't bother visiting states like Wisconsin after she won the primaries. In her mind the deplorables did not have a chance.

  64. #64

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    Here's the beginning of the kind of backpedaling we're going to see with Trump, both inside and outside the USA:

    https://www.rt.com/usa/366082-trump-...ders-messages/

  65. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by norwoodguy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    I remember in the 2000s all the factories being shut down and shifted to China. Maybe because I used a Bloomberg Professional which provided an amazing dept of business information, but I saw a massive shift of industry and jobs offshore, and ever rising executive compensation and bonuses and gains by the wealthy, all under the Bush administration. All the while, people were borrowing more and more for non-productive assets like housing, massive government spending was occurring on military expenditures, etc. Trade deals, superior Chinese competition, etc. has essentially meant that the US has provided welfare to the world and it was just a matter of time until a price had to be paid for that. Large numbers of people are simply ****** off at being written off, with no attention being given to their needs.
    Much of the blame falls on the lap of government policies and America's antithesis towards socialism. If healthcare and education weren't so expensive the middle class wouldn't feel so squeezed. The adherence to trickle down economics and corporate welfare did nothing to help the average worker. Most western countries have seen a loss of manufacturing jobs and there obviously has been pain in central Canada but you don't see the same degree of despair that one sees in America.

    As for the rise of China, the west embraced its economic rise in part to bring it into fold of the world community and be less of a perceived threat. However, once China put its mind to it you simply could not deny its rise to prominence by virtue of its sheer size of population.

    As well, automation and AI will further decrease the availability of certain jobs. The long term trends cannot be denied.

    China not only mined America for its manufacturing sector, it also mined america for its technology and computer secrets. I'm almost certain the US was always doing the same to China, but somehow I think China's hacking of the US yielded many multiples more valuable information (esp. militarily) than the other way around. Now the US has to deal with very powerful and capable competition a whole lot of fronts.


    And where exactly are all those embarrassing 'wikileaks' of terabytes of Chinese and Russian internal communiqués? Oh, I'm sure Snowden and Assange are all over it, trying to balance the weapons of mass destruction they unleashed against their common enemy.
    Last edited by KC; 09-11-2016 at 10:24 AM.

  66. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Here's the beginning of the kind of backpedaling we're going to see with Trump, both inside and outside the USA:

    https://www.rt.com/usa/366082-trump-...ders-messages/
    He's hyper-vindictive so there will be a blacklist and attempts to ruin anyone that spoke against him.



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    08-12-2015, 09:42 PM #1
    KC
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    What if Donald Trump becomes President



    Well, here goes - the thread no one wanted to see on c2e.

    Your thoughts, jokes, etc.

    What would it mean for Canada, Alberta, Edmonton?

    http://www.connect2edmonton.ca/showt...omes-President





    Last edited by KC; 09-11-2016 at 10:31 AM.

  67. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Oh, I'm sure Snowden and Assange are all over it, trying to balance the weapons of mass destruction they unleashed against their common enemy.

    Snowden was a whistle blower, and Assange is basically just a journalist that reports government-related emails that are leaked to his organization. What do you expect them to do to China?

  68. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by edTel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by edTel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Clinton made a very positive concession speech.

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...ticle32757304/
    One she could have and should have made last night. I guess she was too busy consoling Lady Gaga and Cher...
    It was a very late night

    Some things are better said after a good nights sleep.
    Not when you have a room full of supporters who have been waiting many hours to hear from her. They deserved something more than John Podesta telling them to go home and wait for "more information". I bet she didn't even have a concession speech prepared just like she didn't bother visiting states like Wisconsin after she won the primaries. In her mind the deplorables did not have a chance.
    It was a very long night and things were not completely decided. She probably felt it would be better to rest and reflect, rather than make remarks in the heat of the moment that might not be so positive. On occasion, we have seen some other politicians give bitter emotional speeches about the reasons they lost and it does not reflect well on them, nor would it help to have a smooth transition.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by edTel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by edTel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Clinton made a very positive concession speech.

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...ticle32757304/
    One she could have and should have made last night. I guess she was too busy consoling Lady Gaga and Cher...
    It was a very late night

    Some things are better said after a good nights sleep.
    Not when you have a room full of supporters who have been waiting many hours to hear from her. They deserved something more than John Podesta telling them to go home and wait for "more information". I bet she didn't even have a concession speech prepared just like she didn't bother visiting states like Wisconsin after she won the primaries. In her mind the deplorables did not have a chance.
    It was a very long night and things were not completely decided. She probably felt it would be better to rest and reflect, rather than make remarks in the heat of the moment that might not be so positive. On occasion, we have seen some other politicians give bitter emotional speeches about the reasons they lost and it does not reflect well on them, nor would it help to have a smooth transition.
    The bitterness was evident this morning. Not once did she allow the crowd to applaud Trump's win. In fact she spent most of the speech telling her supporters not to give up the fight. Hardly a reconciliation tone if you ask me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post

    China not only mined America for its manufacturing sector, it also mined america for its technology and computer secrets. I'm almost certain the US was always doing the same to China, but somehow I think China's hacking of the US yielded many multiples more valuable information (esp. militarily) than the other way around. Now the US has to deal with very powerful and capable competition a whole lot of fronts.


    And where exactly are all those embarrassing 'wikileaks' of terabytes of Chinese and Russian internal communiqués? Oh, I'm sure Snowden and Assange are all over it, trying to balance the weapons of mass destruction they unleashed against their common enemy.
    Yes China is a formidable competitor, but it bears remembering that industrial espionage or intellectual property infringement is not unique to China. Postwar Germany and Japan were both accused of such acts. France has also been accused of conducting industrial espionage in the US.

    China is a work in progress, even they acknowledge that reality including instituting the rule of law. I liken China a bit to a teenager/young adult that is trying to break free of its parents. In China's case it often bristles against western criticism as a reflexive response to past colonialism and imperialism. China sees the benefit to world order although their regional neighbors may not feel that way. It will continue to be a challenge to integrating them into the world order. More reading in the link below:

    How China Sees World Order

    As for Assange he could easily be a Russian FSB operative or at a minimum as Lenin put it "A useful fool". Hopefully the notion that such techniques could be brought to bear against him is not lost on Trump or his supporters.
    Last edited by norwoodguy; 09-11-2016 at 10:47 AM.
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  71. #71

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    I think the post-mortem is going to be interesting.


    Glenn Greenwald is already nailing the Democrats to the wall for the sense of entitlement and arrogance that causing their own undoing:


    https://theintercept.com/2016/11/09/...son-of-brexit/

  72. #72

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    There was a thread called "What would happen if Trump were to become president?".

    Quote Originally Posted by me
    Nothing would really happen, except that:

    1. Americans would be less welcome everywhere else. Xenophobia is reciprocated.

    2. The USA would be not merely armed to the teeth, but very isolationist (as Trump has said), except in ongoing wars.

    3. The fashionable hatred in the USA would be the same as the fashionable hatred in Russia: moo-slims, of course. A gross caricature.

    4. Domestic politics in the USA would be explicitly racist and explicitly segregationist.

    From 1 and 2: World engagement with the Americans and American engagement with the world would be less. A win-win for everyone.

    From 2 and 3: The threat of world war would drop. A win-win for everyone.

    From 3 and 4 (1): Americans of the type the world needs and has a practical use for -- in other words, ones with brains and humanity -- would be fleeing the USA. A win-win for everyone.

    From 3 and 4 (2): Americans of the type the world has no need of would stay at home, quiver from fright, and engage in their favourite projectile bloodsport. A win-win for everyone.

    From 3 and 4 (3): Foreign citizens, including Canadians, who are already fatally infected with the "libertarian" ideology that has led the USA into Trumpism would have a greater incentive to move to a country they appreciate and that appreciates them. A win-win for everyone.

    From 3 and 4 (4): Foreign citizens who instinctively recoil from Trumpism (basically everyone who's still human) would have their capacity for accidental infection with Americanism because of now-ancient history (the whole technological, cultural, democratic thing) much diminished, and would be far less likely to interact with proud Trumpist-Americans within the USA and abroad. A win-win for everyone.

    -----

    Trumpism in the USA is a full-blown last-stage symptom that's totally inevitable. The Americans have done it to themselves. It is in many ways awful. But on balance it will make for a better world as perceived by all concerned.
    I wrote this about a year ago.

    I think most parts of it have come to pass. (I admit I didn't think he'd actually win.)

    At the time I wrote it I had a vague notion that Clinton was much more of a war-monger than Trump, but the glee with which she made superpower confrontation a central part of her foreign-affairs platform did come as a surprise.

    If I had been to write it just before the election, I'd make it a little less cartoonish, but I think the main points would be the same.
    Last edited by AShetsen; 09-11-2016 at 10:50 AM.

  73. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Oh, I'm sure Snowden and Assange are all over it, trying to balance the weapons of mass destruction they unleashed against their common enemy.

    Snowden was a whistle blower, and Assange is basically just a journalist that reports government-related emails that are leaked to his organization. What do you expect them to do to China?
    Yes, and I guess any executive could say: "Well, yes I did do great harm to my country but I have a fiduciary duty to serve my shareholders." Or a journalist could say, yes, I dumped nuclear plans onto the internet, but the public have a right to know.

    My view is that they both had a duty to their respective countries to realize that what they were doing; one, would be very one sided, and two, it could give an advantage to forces that could do great harm to their fellow citizens over time. Like yelling fire in a theatre to get your friends laughing, any action like they took would be expected to come with unintended consequences and they have a responsibility related to those consequences.

    So my view is that the world now knows a LOT about the "evil US empire" but absolutely nothing about the other "evil empires".

    Maybe this will explain my position. Years ago, right after 911 occurred, an article appears on "Bloomberg Professional" where the writer asked all the service's users to send in to him all the weaknesses they saw in US security (basically terrorism opportunities). He was then going to publish them!!! I couldn't believe what I was reading. I ended up sending the Bloomberg editors a letter saying that this guy should NOT be allowed to create a "made in America" terrorism handbook / idea book even if it warned Americans of their weak spots. He would be handing the enemy material information. Thus people have to be made to behave with some social consciousness at times.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    I think the post-mortem is going to be interesting.


    Glenn Greenwald is already nailing the Democrats to the wall for the sense of entitlement and arrogance that causing their own undoing:


    https://theintercept.com/2016/11/09/...son-of-brexit/
    The Dems seemed to have forgotten the realities imposed by the electoral college, popoular vote be damned. The manufacturing belt states flexed their muscles. Bernie Sanders clued in, but the party elders certainly didn't.
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  75. #75

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    Trump will struggle on foreign policy. He's going to be heavily manipulated by both congress and senate. He's going to need the help of advisers to make informed decisions, and whoever pays the most $$$ to those people will be the ones with their hands firmly up his arse pulling the strings, at least at first. I don't think he'll enjoy that and will start picking fights with anyone and everyone, regardless of party affiliation, and do what he wants.

    It will be an interesting Presidency.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  76. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Here's the beginning of the kind of backpedaling we're going to see with Trump, both inside and outside the USA:

    https://www.rt.com/usa/366082-trump-...ders-messages/
    He's hyper-vindictive so there will be a blacklist and attempts to ruin anyone that spoke against him.



    I want my thread restarted. The establishment killed it, closed it, tried to cover it up. c2e is rigged I say, rigged!



    08-12-2015, 09:42 PM #1
    KC
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    What if Donald Trump becomes President



    Well, here goes - the thread no one wanted to see on c2e.

    Your thoughts, jokes, etc.

    What would it mean for Canada, Alberta, Edmonton?

    http://www.connect2edmonton.ca/showt...omes-President
    What does a Donald Trump presidency mean for us? Some thoughts:

    1. If he is hyper vindictive - I hope some of us here didn't p*** him off too much with our criticism. If he does have a list of enemies, I am hopeful us critics in Edmonton will not be too high or his radar. Remember Donald - Canadians not illegally crossing the border so much - wall goes south not north. I still might want to go to the US for vacations occasionally, I promise I won't stay too long.

    2. Keystone XL- back on the radar?

    3. American boarders (not borders) - If you have an extra room available and friends in the US, you might want to get ready for house guests. They might be staying for a while.

    4. "Make America Great Again" - If he manages to that, it will probably be good for Canada economically too. If not, Trudeau might need to go on more trade missions to China and lastly

    5. We will probably need to make those maple leaf flags on our backpacks more bigly when we travel abroad.

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    It will be interesting to see how the relationship with the House of Saud develops over the next 4 years. In one respect they must like Trump's criticism of Obama's deal with Iran, I wonder if it's too late though to freeze Iranian assets yet again. If he puts Iran back in the penalty box one would have to assume that they will attempt to reinstitute their nuke program setting the stage for a future confrontation much to the delight of the Sunnis and Israel. Will Trump rattle the nuclear first strike saber against Iran?
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  78. #78

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    Quote Originally Posted by norwoodguy View Post
    It will be interesting to see how the relationship with the House of Saud develops over the next 4 years. In one respect they must like Trump's criticism of Obama's deal with Iran, I wonder if it's too late though to freeze Iranian assets yet again. If he puts Iran back in the penalty box one would have to assume that they will attempt to reinstitute their nuke program setting the stage for a future confrontation much to the delight of the Sunnis and Israel. Will Trump rattle the nuclear first strike saber against Iran?

    After a few major security briefings, I imagine Trump will suddenly sound quite different.

    Look at how Obama went into the Whitehouse and quickly became a prolific approver of assassination by drone. People had their expectations that he could pull the military and the US would no longer have enemies.


    Obama’s drone war is a shameful part of his legacy

    What makes Obama’s policy even more disappointing is that whoever succeeds him will likely widen the program further. Obama at least gives the impression of taking the constitutional and moral consequences of the drone program seriously, even if this has been only a small restraint on the program. But Hillary Clinton has stoutly defended the drone program inside the White House as secretary of state, afterward in her memoir and on the campaign trail. Given her hawkishness compared with Obama, it seems likely that the program would only grow under her. And Donald Trump? Well, he has already promised to commit war crimes.

    I have little doubt that Obama chose to rapidly expand the drone war under the sincere belief that it was..."


    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...f12_story.html
    Last edited by KC; 09-11-2016 at 11:17 AM.

  79. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by borntohula View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Moodib View Post
    A good day to be a white straight male.

    Perhaps, not so much for all other parties involved. I have friends in the states that are quite fearful. Easy to sit at your keyboard and spout a bunch of nonsense about how everything is going to be okay.

    https://www.buzzfeed.com/ishmaeldaro...5e#.sbldNeR8NL

    This woman's comments are racist and bigoted. Many of these "uneducated white racists" helped elect Obama for two terms.
    I think you missed the point of my post. It was that white privilege spoke quite loudly this election. That was her point too. Most white people in the states don't have anyone of another ethnicity in their immediate social circle. White privilege isn't something that was simply made up - it has deep roots, especially in the states given its struggle with racial history.


    There was voter suppression of certain demographics this election, with stats to back it up relative to the 2012 and 2008 elections. One doesn't have to dive too deep into the data to see that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    After a few major security briefings, I imagine Trump will suddenly sound quite different.

    Look at how Obama went into the Whitehouse and quickly became a prolific approver of assassination by drone.
    As Obama has pointed out in his speech today Trump will come to realize that the job of the presidency is bigger than any of us. Bush 2 was obviously very tired of his job by the end of his 2nd term, Trump may well find his wall after 4 years. Of course a lot will depend on the degree of delegation. Reagan managed to sleep through much of his presidency and the world somehow didn't burn in flames.
    Did my dog just fall into a pothole???

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    Quote Originally Posted by norwoodguy View Post
    It will be interesting to see how the relationship with the House of Saud develops over the next 4 years. In one respect they must like Trump's criticism of Obama's deal with Iran, I wonder if it's too late though to freeze Iranian assets yet again. If he puts Iran back in the penalty box one would have to assume that they will attempt to reinstitute their nuke program setting the stage for a future confrontation much to the delight of the Sunnis and Israel. Will Trump rattle the nuclear first strike saber against Iran?
    I'd love for Trump to tell the Saudis and Turks to eat a big fat bowl of dicks. He might be the man for that.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  82. #82

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moodib View Post
    There was voter suppression of certain demographics this election, with stats to back it up relative to the 2012 and 2008 elections. One doesn't have to dive too deep into the data to see that.
    Voter suppression? I think it's more like a lot of people that liked Obama really didn't care for Hillary and decided not to vote.

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    It will be interesting to see if he makes good on his promise to have the Attorney General look into Clinton's misuse of her email server in more detail. Either way Wikileaks will continue to make her life difficult I have no doubt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moodib View Post
    I think you missed the point of my post. It was that white privilege spoke quite loudly this election. That was her point too. Most white people in the states don't have anyone of another ethnicity in their immediate social circle. White privilege isn't something that was simply made up - it has deep roots, especially in the states given its struggle with racial history.
    I read an article a couple of months back (forgot what publication) that researched the core of Trump's supporters and that found they weren't the disadvantaged blue collar worker but solidly middle class white Americans with good incomes in predominantly segregated white communities.
    Did my dog just fall into a pothole???

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    I'd love for Trump to tell the Saudis and Turks to eat a big fat bowl of dicks. He might be the man for that.
    I fear the Saudis more than the Iranians. As supposed keepers of the faith their constant dance with the Wahabis is loathsome. My greatest fear is them acquiring nuclear weapons in response to Iran's nuke program.

    At least the Turks don't export extremism and they are primarily mired in their supression of the Kurds.
    Did my dog just fall into a pothole???

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    What a drama queen.

    Isn't he though. Children will be fine, drama queens like him, not so much..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by norwoodguy View Post
    It will be interesting to see how the relationship with the House of Saud develops over the next 4 years. In one respect they must like Trump's criticism of Obama's deal with Iran, I wonder if it's too late though to freeze Iranian assets yet again. If he puts Iran back in the penalty box one would have to assume that they will attempt to reinstitute their nuke program setting the stage for a future confrontation much to the delight of the Sunnis and Israel. Will Trump rattle the nuclear first strike saber against Iran?
    I'd love for Trump to tell the Saudis and Turks to eat a big fat bowl of dicks. He might be the man for that.
    Yes,I would as well..the saudis have had great time for far too long.!

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    Quite an interesting interview below. Listen to the guy. Funny that the article doesn't really touch on any of the guy's comments about Russia and the US's approach, or what the next President will do.


    Russia poised to unleash new Syria strikes from the sea, US officials say
    By Lucas Tomlinson Published November 09, 2016


    http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/11...cials-say.html



    also a bit interesting...

    Russia 'forces' Nato submarine away from battle fleet heading to Syria
    http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/ru...ria-1508425852
    Last edited by KC; 09-11-2016 at 12:37 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hello lady View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by norwoodguy View Post
    It will be interesting to see how the relationship with the House of Saud develops over the next 4 years. In one respect they must like Trump's criticism of Obama's deal with Iran, I wonder if it's too late though to freeze Iranian assets yet again. If he puts Iran back in the penalty box one would have to assume that they will attempt to reinstitute their nuke program setting the stage for a future confrontation much to the delight of the Sunnis and Israel. Will Trump rattle the nuclear first strike saber against Iran?
    I'd love for Trump to tell the Saudis and Turks to eat a big fat bowl of dicks. He might be the man for that.
    Yes,I would as well..the saudis have had great time for far too long.!
    Cemented in place by the Bushes, whom all you conservatives used to fall over yourselves to support.
    I think of art, at its most significant, as a Distant Early Warning system that can always be relied on to tell the old culture what is beginning to happen to it. —Marshall McLuhan

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    Quote Originally Posted by norwoodguy View Post
    At least the Turks don't export extremism and they are primarily mired in their supression of the Kurds.
    While they may not export extremism, Turkey under Erdogan is rapidly spiraling into an authoritarian state that could easily start trying to project influence with an Islamic spin in the region. Further instability might be the last thing the middle east needs. Or maybe we need to let the various factions of Islam have a revolutionary war while we all stop picking sides.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dialog View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hello lady View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by norwoodguy View Post
    It will be interesting to see how the relationship with the House of Saud develops over the next 4 years. In one respect they must like Trump's criticism of Obama's deal with Iran, I wonder if it's too late though to freeze Iranian assets yet again. If he puts Iran back in the penalty box one would have to assume that they will attempt to reinstitute their nuke program setting the stage for a future confrontation much to the delight of the Sunnis and Israel. Will Trump rattle the nuclear first strike saber against Iran?
    I'd love for Trump to tell the Saudis and Turks to eat a big fat bowl of dicks. He might be the man for that.
    Yes,I would as well..the saudis have had great time for far too long.!
    Cemented in place by the Bushes, whom all you conservatives used to fall over yourselves to support.
    So what's your point,all conservatives are the same? Wrong!

  92. #92

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    How many airliners has Obama shot down, exactly?
    I am not a fan of Russia, I don't like their invasion into the Ukraine, but I don't believe for one minute they intentionally shot down that airliner, the rebels thought it was a military jet or something else. Its really no difference from when the US shot down Iran air flight 655 killing 290 innocent civilians.

    I think Trump is going to take a much more sensible approach to Syria, and allow Assad to regain power with Russian help. Backing Kurdish rebels is foolish, and is only going to lead to problems for Turkey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    While they may not export extremism, Turkey under Erdogan is rapidly spiraling into an authoritarian state that could easily start trying to project influence with an Islamic spin in the region. Further instability might be the last thing the middle east needs. Or maybe we need to let the various factions of Islam have a revolutionary war while we all stop picking sides.
    Turkey is still driven primarily by their concern over Kurdish independence especially as they are battling an active insurgency. Hopefully there is sufficient secularism left in Turkey to resist Erdogan's further power grabs. The modern Turkish state was founded on the principle of secularism. Imam Fethullah Gülen, an former Erdogan ally now in exile in the US, has openly stated that religion has no place in government.
    Last edited by norwoodguy; 09-11-2016 at 12:50 PM.
    Did my dog just fall into a pothole???

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    Quote Originally Posted by hello lady View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dialog View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hello lady View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by norwoodguy View Post
    It will be interesting to see how the relationship with the House of Saud develops over the next 4 years. In one respect they must like Trump's criticism of Obama's deal with Iran, I wonder if it's too late though to freeze Iranian assets yet again. If he puts Iran back in the penalty box one would have to assume that they will attempt to reinstitute their nuke program setting the stage for a future confrontation much to the delight of the Sunnis and Israel. Will Trump rattle the nuclear first strike saber against Iran?
    I'd love for Trump to tell the Saudis and Turks to eat a big fat bowl of dicks. He might be the man for that.
    Yes,I would as well..the saudis have had great time for far too long.!
    Cemented in place by the Bushes, whom all you conservatives used to fall over yourselves to support.
    So what's your point,all conservatives are the same? Wrong!
    That's the beauty of it all. Trump owes no one but his voters and even George Bush said that he did not vote for him. Whether he succeeds in making America Great Again (whatever that means) one thing is certain, he has broken all the rules about how to run for the highest office in the US and has still come out on top. American politics will never be the same again.
    Last edited by edTel; 09-11-2016 at 12:51 PM.

  95. #95

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    Quote Originally Posted by hello lady View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dialog View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hello lady View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by norwoodguy View Post
    It will be interesting to see how the relationship with the House of Saud develops over the next 4 years. In one respect they must like Trump's criticism of Obama's deal with Iran, I wonder if it's too late though to freeze Iranian assets yet again. If he puts Iran back in the penalty box one would have to assume that they will attempt to reinstitute their nuke program setting the stage for a future confrontation much to the delight of the Sunnis and Israel. Will Trump rattle the nuclear first strike saber against Iran?
    I'd love for Trump to tell the Saudis and Turks to eat a big fat bowl of dicks. He might be the man for that.
    Yes,I would as well..the saudis have had great time for far too long.!
    Cemented in place by the Bushes, whom all you conservatives used to fall over yourselves to support.
    So what's your point,all conservatives are the same? Wrong!
    Oh I'm pretty sure you were pro-Bush back in the day. You're not all that different. Especially you.
    I think of art, at its most significant, as a Distant Early Warning system that can always be relied on to tell the old culture what is beginning to happen to it. —Marshall McLuhan

  96. #96

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    Quote Originally Posted by edTel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hello lady View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dialog View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hello lady View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by norwoodguy View Post
    It will be interesting to see how the relationship with the House of Saud develops over the next 4 years. In one respect they must like Trump's criticism of Obama's deal with Iran, I wonder if it's too late though to freeze Iranian assets yet again. If he puts Iran back in the penalty box one would have to assume that they will attempt to reinstitute their nuke program setting the stage for a future confrontation much to the delight of the Sunnis and Israel. Will Trump rattle the nuclear first strike saber against Iran?
    I'd love for Trump to tell the Saudis and Turks to eat a big fat bowl of dicks. He might be the man for that.
    Yes,I would as well..the saudis have had great time for far too long.!
    Cemented in place by the Bushes, whom all you conservatives used to fall over yourselves to support.
    So what's your point,all conservatives are the same? Wrong!
    That's the beauty of it all. Trump owes no one but his voters and even George Bush said that he did not vote for him. Whether he succeeds in making America Great Again (whatever that means) one thing is certain, he has broken all the rules about how to run for the highest office in the US and has still come out on top. American politics will never be the same again.
    He is crazy beholden to Putin. But you just keep pretending he isn't. It's amusing your capacity to think otherwise.
    I think of art, at its most significant, as a Distant Early Warning system that can always be relied on to tell the old culture what is beginning to happen to it. —Marshall McLuhan

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dialog View Post

    He is crazy beholden to Putin. But you just keep pretending he isn't. It's amusing your capacity to think otherwise.
    Careful now.... Putin may be watching your computer too... time to put your tinfoil hat on...

  98. #98

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dialog View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hello lady View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by norwoodguy View Post
    It will be interesting to see how the relationship with the House of Saud develops over the next 4 years. In one respect they must like Trump's criticism of Obama's deal with Iran, I wonder if it's too late though to freeze Iranian assets yet again. If he puts Iran back in the penalty box one would have to assume that they will attempt to reinstitute their nuke program setting the stage for a future confrontation much to the delight of the Sunnis and Israel. Will Trump rattle the nuclear first strike saber against Iran?
    I'd love for Trump to tell the Saudis and Turks to eat a big fat bowl of dicks. He might be the man for that.
    Yes,I would as well..the saudis have had great time for far too long.!
    Cemented in place by the Bushes, whom all you conservatives used to fall over yourselves to support.
    ........and also encouraged by the Clinton's. I'm sure Hillary's stance on the XL Pipeline had a lot to do with her and Bill being in bed with the Saudi's.
    She was all for the pipeline then she was against it. All of a sudden it was global warming she was worried about. No it wasn't, it was the Saudi's who paid her and Bill off. Contributions (in the way of a birthday gift) to their 'Foundation' clinched to deal. Now, will the Saudi's try the same stunt with Trump.
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

  99. #99

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    Quote Originally Posted by norwoodguy View Post
    It will be interesting to see how the relationship with the House of Saud develops over the next 4 years. In one respect they must like Trump's criticism of Obama's deal with Iran, I wonder if it's too late though to freeze Iranian assets yet again. If he puts Iran back in the penalty box one would have to assume that they will attempt to reinstitute their nuke program setting the stage for a future confrontation much to the delight of the Sunnis and Israel. Will Trump rattle the nuclear first strike saber against Iran?
    The politics of the middle east are complicated. Al Qaeda and ISIS have much closer ties with Saudi Arabia than Iran. Iran seems to sometimes talk tough, but hasn't done much so maybe there is some common ground with Trump.

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    ^^ You conspiracy guys, yeesh.
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

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