Edmonton may get new jobs at Vegreville's expense

[envaneo]

^ But those that remained behind got a $400 cheque in the bargain

[Alex.L]

As someone who grew up very near Vegreville, and who knows plenty of people who still live and work there, this is a brutal hit for the town. It's all fine and dandy to take this right down to the numbers and say that it costs less if they move the processing centre to Canada Place, but that's not actually how the world works. This isn't a corporation where they simply exist to maximize profits (by minimizing costs). This is a government agency, and there are other places where costs could be cut with less impact and backlash this has and will cause.

Do they have a responsibility to spend tax dollars wisely? Of course they do. Is closing a major employer in a relatively small centre the best way to do that? I'd argue that it isn't.

If this is a political play, or some sort of punishment to the riding for being a Conservative slam-dunk every election then I'm saddened by where our Federal Government's priorities lie. That's not a shot at the Liberals, it's a shot at anybody who, after being elected, would play with the future of a town simply because they hold a grudge.

[JayBee]

A job in Vegreville is NOT worth more than a job in Edmonton, and we're not even talking about layoffs.

[Alex.L]

A job in Vegreville is NOT worth more than a job in Edmonton, and we're not even talking about layoffs.

Who said it was? And conversely, is a job in Edmonton worth more than a job in Vegreville in your eyes?

[H.L.]

As someone who grew up very near Vegreville, and who knows plenty of people who still live and work there, this is a brutal hit for the town. It's all fine and dandy to take this right down to the numbers and say that it costs less if they move the processing centre to Canada Place, but that's not actually how the world works. This isn't a corporation where they simply exist to maximize profits (by minimizing costs). This is a government agency, and there are other places where costs could be cut with less impact and backlash this has and will cause.

Do they have a responsibility to spend tax dollars wisely? Of course they do. Is closing a major employer in a relatively small centre the best way to do that? I'd argue that it isn't.

If this is a political play, or some sort of punishment to the riding for being a Conservative slam-dunk every election then I'm saddened by where our Federal Government's priorities lie. That's not a shot at the Liberals, it's a shot at anybody who, after being elected, would play with the future of a town simply because they hold a grudge.

Trudeau and Butts are junior high, so of course they hold a grudge, just like PET

[Alex.L]

As someone who grew up very near Vegreville, and who knows plenty of people who still live and work there, this is a brutal hit for the town. It's all fine and dandy to take this right down to the numbers and say that it costs less if they move the processing centre to Canada Place, but that's not actually how the world works. This isn't a corporation where they simply exist to maximize profits (by minimizing costs). This is a government agency, and there are other places where costs could be cut with less impact and backlash this has and will cause.

Do they have a responsibility to spend tax dollars wisely? Of course they do. Is closing a major employer in a relatively small centre the best way to do that? I'd argue that it isn't.

If this is a political play, or some sort of punishment to the riding for being a Conservative slam-dunk every election then I'm saddened by where our Federal Government's priorities lie. That's not a shot at the Liberals, it's a shot at anybody who, after being elected, would play with the future of a town simply because they hold a grudge.

Trudeau and Butts are junior high, so of course they hold a grudge, just like PET

It goes both ways though. That Immigration Centre could have gone anywhere, and it went to Vegreville because of patronage. I'm quite confident that Justin Trudeau wasn't sitting in his Ottawa office pining for the day that he could shut down an Immigration office in Vegreville AB.

[Dave]

Enough of these hypocritical crocodile tears. If you guys were at all for real here, you would have stopped functioning when Ralph Klein laid off 10,000 in Edmonton.


Rich. Preeeeeeeety rich.

I remember it very well - no #WeareEdmonton then, just a lot of people in rural Alberta cheering Klein on saying he was doing a good job and some saying he should cut more. Of course it was easier to cheer when you are not then one whose ox is being gored. I know many people had to leave here at that time, but for those of us who hunkered down and were able to ride it all out - this is something we will never forget. I don't think about this every day and certainly don't dwell on the past all the time, but when we are asked to support others losing jobs in Alberta I do remember when that support was not there for us from other Albertans.

[Alex.L]

Because rural Alberta didn't also suffer during that time, right? Cuts to healthcare, education, etc. all beat down rural communities probably worse than 10,000 cuts to a city with a population of what, 700,000 at that time? Per capita it would be pretty comparable.

Even disregarding all of that, the old 'What's good for the goose is good for the gander' angle here is childish and vindictive (and the same goes for anybody in rural AB being happy about an urban centre taking a similar hit).

[kcantor]

As someone who grew up very near Vegreville, and who knows plenty of people who still live and work there, this is a brutal hit for the town. It's all fine and dandy to take this right down to the numbers and say that it costs less if they move the processing centre to Canada Place, but that's not actually how the world works. This isn't a corporation where they simply exist to maximize profits (by minimizing costs). This is a government agency, and there are other places where costs could be cut with less impact and backlash this has and will cause.

Do they have a responsibility to spend tax dollars wisely? Of course they do. Is closing a major employer in a relatively small centre the best way to do that? I'd argue that it isn't.

If this is a political play, or some sort of punishment to the riding for being a Conservative slam-dunk every election then I'm saddened by where our Federal Government's priorities lie. That's not a shot at the Liberals, it's a shot at anybody who, after being elected, would play with the future of a town simply because they hold a grudge.

Trudeau and Butts are junior high, so of course they hold a grudge, just like PET

It goes both ways though. That Immigration Centre could have gone anywhere, and it went to Vegreville because of patronage. I'm quite confident that Justin Trudeau wasn't sitting in his Ottawa office pining for the day that he could shut down an Immigration office in Vegreville AB.

firstly, you have more confidence in trudeau and butts than i do.

secondly, and putting firstly aside, these aren't the kinds of directions and decisions that would be made by trudeau and butts anyway. and the back room boys and strategists that are making these kinds of decisions have been around for a long time and waited a long time to be able to implement the things they have been planning for a very long time.

thirdly, some of those things - like this one - may have enough positives from a national perspective to override the negative local impacts. maybe. but, if so, they have yet to be disclosed in much detail.

interestingly enough, the centre has only been there for 20 some years and was in fact opened under a liberal government that probably could have rethought it's location and reversed what is well recognized to have been conservative pork barreling. they probably just weren't prepared to take the heat then that they're prepared to take now


unfortunately, regardless of how the staff numbers break down, there are more "real people" involved in what at the time was only a theoretical exercise (deciding where to locate something new is much different than relocating something that is an actual operating entity).

in any case, i'm pretty sure with everything else that's been on the table since they got elected, this likely had to have been on the table for a long time or it wouldn't have even made it to the table given everything else on it.

[Alex.L]

As someone who grew up very near Vegreville, and who knows plenty of people who still live and work there, this is a brutal hit for the town. It's all fine and dandy to take this right down to the numbers and say that it costs less if they move the processing centre to Canada Place, but that's not actually how the world works. This isn't a corporation where they simply exist to maximize profits (by minimizing costs). This is a government agency, and there are other places where costs could be cut with less impact and backlash this has and will cause.

Do they have a responsibility to spend tax dollars wisely? Of course they do. Is closing a major employer in a relatively small centre the best way to do that? I'd argue that it isn't.

If this is a political play, or some sort of punishment to the riding for being a Conservative slam-dunk every election then I'm saddened by where our Federal Government's priorities lie. That's not a shot at the Liberals, it's a shot at anybody who, after being elected, would play with the future of a town simply because they hold a grudge.

Trudeau and Butts are junior high, so of course they hold a grudge, just like PET

It goes both ways though. That Immigration Centre could have gone anywhere, and it went to Vegreville because of patronage. I'm quite confident that Justin Trudeau wasn't sitting in his Ottawa office pining for the day that he could shut down an Immigration office in Vegreville AB.

firstly, you have more confidence in trudeau and butts than i do.

secondly, and putting firstly aside, these aren't the kinds of directions and decisions that would be made by trudeau and butts anyway. and the back room boys and strategists that are making these kinds of decisions have been around for a long time and waited a long time to be able to implement the things they have been planning for a very long time.

thirdly, some of those things - like this one - may have enough positives from a national perspective to override the negative local impacts. maybe. but, if so, they have yet to be disclosed in much detail.

interestingly enough, the centre has only been there for 20 some years and was in fact opened under a liberal government that probably could have rethought it's location and reversed what is well recognized to have been conservative pork barreling. they probably just weren't prepared to take the heat then that they're prepared to take now. in any case, i'm pretty sure with everything else that's been on the table since they got elected, this likely had to have been on the table for a long time or it wouldn't have even made it to the table given everything else on it.

You're probably right, Ken. I intentionally kept it broad with 'Liberals', but narrowed it down after HelloLady specified Trudeau and Butts.

That's interesting about it being opened up under a Liberal Government though. I was far too young at that time to be paying any attention to politics, so I'll blame my ignorance on that.

[JayBee]

A job in Vegreville is NOT worth more than a job in Edmonton, and we're not even talking about layoffs.

Who said it was? And conversely, is a job in Edmonton worth more than a job in Vegreville in your eyes?

Nope, one human, one job. But it will in all likelihood be more efficient (lower turnover=more experience=more efficiency etc.) to have these positions in Edmonton, if you care to care about tax dollars or quality of public service.

Thanks for asking.

Enough of these hypocritical crocodile tears. If you guys were at all for real here, you would have stopped functioning when Ralph Klein laid off 10,000 in Edmonton.


Rich. Preeeeeeeety rich.

I remember it very well - no #WeareEdmonton then, just a lot of people in rural Alberta cheering Klein on saying he was doing a good job and some saying he should cut more. Of course it was easier to cheer when you are not then one whose ox is being gored. I know many people had to leave here at that time, but for those of us who hunkered down and were able to ride it all out - this is something we will never forget. I don't think about this every day and certainly don't dwell on the past all the time, but when we are asked to support others losing jobs in Alberta I do remember when that support was not there for us from other Albertans.

Exactly. They care more about their party than about their Country or supposed City. Completely unable to look policy in the eyes, hypocritical to the teeth.

[H.L.]

As someone who grew up very near Vegreville, and who knows plenty of people who still live and work there, this is a brutal hit for the town. It's all fine and dandy to take this right down to the numbers and say that it costs less if they move the processing centre to Canada Place, but that's not actually how the world works. This isn't a corporation where they simply exist to maximize profits (by minimizing costs). This is a government agency, and there are other places where costs could be cut with less impact and backlash this has and will cause.

Do they have a responsibility to spend tax dollars wisely? Of course they do. Is closing a major employer in a relatively small centre the best way to do that? I'd argue that it isn't.

If this is a political play, or some sort of punishment to the riding for being a Conservative slam-dunk every election then I'm saddened by where our Federal Government's priorities lie. That's not a shot at the Liberals, it's a shot at anybody who, after being elected, would play with the future of a town simply because they hold a grudge.

Trudeau and Butts are junior high, so of course they hold a grudge, just like PET

It goes both ways though. That Immigration Centre could have gone anywhere, and it went to Vegreville because of patronage. I'm quite confident that Justin Trudeau wasn't sitting in his Ottawa office pining for the day that he could shut down an Immigration office in Vegreville AB.

Nope neither do I,but when Ambrose brought it up in QP,he rambled on about something different.He could save these jobs..if it was in his riding he would!

[JayBee]

^ these jobs are not being lost.

[Dave]

Because rural Alberta didn't also suffer during that time, right? Cuts to healthcare, education, etc. all beat down rural communities probably worse than 10,000 cuts to a city with a population of what, 700,000 at that time? Per capita it would be pretty comparable.

Even disregarding all of that, the old 'What's good for the goose is good for the gander' angle here is childish and vindictive (and the same goes for anybody in rural AB being happy about an urban centre taking a similar hit).

I am sure there were cuts elsewhere, but actually it really did effect Edmonton more at the time -we had cuts to health care, education plus on top of that many other government jobs - it was brutal and anyone who doesn't remember that has a selective memory. Some of the rural communities benefited more from resource development and other things which offset the cuts there more.

Lets be perfectly clear - I am neither glad or joyful about jobs being cut in Vegreville in any way and never said that in any post - nothing vindictive. I am just not feeling the urge to support some "we feel your pain" campaign.

As was pointed out the tears are selective. There are many places in rural Alberta that always vote for parties that talk a lot making cuts in government, but perhaps they just expect those cuts only to be made elsewhere. I find a lot of hypocrisy in that, amongst other things.

[Alex.L]

A job in Vegreville is NOT worth more than a job in Edmonton, and we're not even talking about layoffs.

Who said it was? And conversely, is a job in Edmonton worth more than a job in Vegreville in your eyes?

Nope, one human, one job. But it will in all likelihood be more efficient (lower turnover=more experience=more efficiency etc.) to have these positions in Edmonton, if you care to care about tax dollars or quality of public service.

Thanks for asking.

So you're assuming that there's higher turnover in Vegreville than there would be in Edmonton? That doesn't add up at all. In Vegreville this is a long term career with stability, benefits, etc. The type of job that people get and hold onto until they retire. There isn't another position with similar pay just around the corner (or literally on the next floor down in Canada Place) to entice talent away. The only efficiency being achieved by moving these jobs to a Edmonton comes in the form of real estate savings, and that will probably be cancelled out by training cost for new hires for the first little while anyway.

[JayBee]

^ Not assuming. That's the one thing they said.

And yeah, ease of attraction and retention is vastly cheaper in virtually every jobsite. This is new to you?

If you guys weren't so set on "Edmonton = disposable" & "Norman Rockwell = Philosopher" would it help?

[Alex.L]

Because rural Alberta didn't also suffer during that time, right? Cuts to healthcare, education, etc. all beat down rural communities probably worse than 10,000 cuts to a city with a population of what, 700,000 at that time? Per capita it would be pretty comparable.

Even disregarding all of that, the old 'What's good for the goose is good for the gander' angle here is childish and vindictive (and the same goes for anybody in rural AB being happy about an urban centre taking a similar hit).

I am sure there were cuts elsewhere, but actually it really did effect Edmonton more at the time -we had cuts to health care, education plus on top of that many other government jobs - it was brutal and anyone who doesn't remember that has a selective memory. Some of the rural communities benefited more from resource development and other things which offset the cuts there more.

Lets be perfectly clear - I am neither glad or joyful about jobs being cut in Vegreville in any way and never said that in any post - nothing vindictive. I am just not feeling the urge to support some "we feel your pain" campaign.

As was pointed out the tears are selective. There are many places in rural Alberta that always vote for parties that talk a lot making cuts in government, but perhaps they just expect those cuts only to be made elsewhere. I find a lot of hypocrisy in that, amongst other things.

That's fair. Although in my hometown we experienced all of the above too. They closed an Alberta Agriculture office which put a good chunk of people out of work or made them commute to Vermilion (1hr each way). I think it's really a matter of perspective. If you lived in Edmonton during that time, you'd think Edmonton got hit harder and vice versa. It really shouldn't be a competition though.

[Alex.L]

^ Not assuming. That's the one thing they said.

And yeah, ease of attraction and retention is vastly cheaper in virtually every jobsite. This is new to you?

If you guys weren't so set on "Edmonton = disposable" & "Norman Rockwell = Philosopher" would it help?

They said it'll be easier to attract and retain talent because of advancement opportunities within the federal government. Meaning more turnover in this department. Which means less efficiency in CPC almost by definition You're putting spin on the press release for your own argument.

I'm not set on anything. I've just lived in both rural and urban Alberta so I'm not going to say that everything should be in Edmonton.

The rural portion deserves to be treated with dignity just the same as the urban portion does. This isn't us vs them.

The good news is that this isn't happening until 2018 I believe, so at least they didn't just padlock the doors and tell them to figure it out.

[Dave]

Because rural Alberta didn't also suffer during that time, right? Cuts to healthcare, education, etc. all beat down rural communities probably worse than 10,000 cuts to a city with a population of what, 700,000 at that time? Per capita it would be pretty comparable.

Even disregarding all of that, the old 'What's good for the goose is good for the gander' angle here is childish and vindictive (and the same goes for anybody in rural AB being happy about an urban centre taking a similar hit).

I am sure there were cuts elsewhere, but actually it really did effect Edmonton more at the time -we had cuts to health care, education plus on top of that many other government jobs - it was brutal and anyone who doesn't remember that has a selective memory. Some of the rural communities benefited more from resource development and other things which offset the cuts there more.

Lets be perfectly clear - I am neither glad or joyful about jobs being cut in Vegreville in any way and never said that in any post - nothing vindictive. I am just not feeling the urge to support some "we feel your pain" campaign.

As was pointed out the tears are selective. There are many places in rural Alberta that always vote for parties that talk a lot making cuts in government, but perhaps they just expect those cuts only to be made elsewhere. I find a lot of hypocrisy in that, amongst other things.

That's fair. Although in my hometown we experienced all of the above too. They closed an Alberta Agriculture office which put a good chunk of people out of work or made them commute to Vermilion (1hr each way). I think it's really a matter of perspective. If you lived in Edmonton during that time, you'd think Edmonton got hit harder and vice versa. It really shouldn't be a competition though.

It isn't a competition. I didn't live in Vegreville then, so I wouldn't know exactly what happened there and unless you lived in both places at that time the reverse would be true also. We had over 10,000 jobs lost at the time and I particularly take offense to those who try to minimize it. I realize Edmonton is a big city, but it actually did have a big impact and we got the sense a lot of the rest of the province either didn't care or just wanted to ignore this. We probably weren't the only place hard hit, but we were one of the main ones. However, some good that came out of it is our economy eventually became more diversified and we became less reliant on government. We survived it and however things go, I hope your community will too.

[Alex.L]

I just take issue with the line of thinking where it's ok to set humanity and empathy to the side because 'they didn't care when it happened to us'. (This isn't directed just at you. It has been a theme in this thread and it's troubling)

To a rational person living through hardship makes them more sympathetic when it happens to their neighbour. It doesn't give them a license to be a jerk about it. A high horse makes an easy target.

[Sonic Death Monkey]

firstly, you have more confidence in trudeau and butts than i do.

So who the F is "Butts"?

[Dave]

I just take issue with the line of thinking where it's ok to set humanity and empathy to the side because 'they didn't care when it happened to us'. (This isn't directed just at you. It has been a theme in this thread and it's troubling)

To a rational person living through hardship makes them more sympathetic when it happens to their neighbour. It doesn't give them a license to be a jerk about it. A high horse makes an easy target.

There is no shortage of truly terrible things that happen in the world - there was an earthquake in Italy earlier this week and I feel empathy and sympathy for them although I do not shout it loudly. Perhaps #WeareItaly might be how some people show their empathy and sympathy, but it is not how everyone does it and just because someone does not #wefeelyourpainto doesn't make anyone any unsympathetic jerk or inhumane.

I am really neither for or against what the federal government did here - it is not my community and I do not know all the details. If the people of Vegreville can make the case to the federal government that this is not a good decision, then it will be resolved the way they want it to be. However, I don't think trying to drag Edmontonians into it is the way to go here.

[Alex.L]

If you're not for or against it then I have to ask why you're bothering to post in this thread.

[Dave]

If you're not for or against it then I have to ask why you're bothering to post in this thread.

If there is a case to be made to the Federal government, then Vegreville should make it to them directly - it is their decision, not Edmontonians. You are asking Edmontonians to say "no thank you we really don't want those 200 or so jobs" and I don't see how that would make sense to us. If we don't say that and "sacrifice" then we are again "bad Edmonton" in the eyes of some in rural Alberta. If some want to drag us in this debate - we may give our opinions, but they may not like all the things we have to say.

[Alex.L]

If you're not for or against it then I have to ask why you're bothering to post in this thread.

If there is a case to be made to the Federal government, then Vegreville should make it to them directly - it is their decision, not Edmontonians. You are asking Edmontonians to say "no thank you we really don't want those 200 or so jobs" and I don't see how that would make sense to us. If we don't say that and "sacrifice" then we are again "bad Edmonton" in the eyes of some in rural Alberta. If some want to drag us in this debate - we may give our opinions, but they may not like all the things we have to say.

I don't recall ever saying that Edmonton should turn the jobs down. Only that the addition of jobs to downtown Edmonton would make a much smaller splash than the departure of jobs would make in Vegreville.

As for the bit about being seen as "bad Edmonton" can you explain exactly how that's not wildly hypocritical considering you just stated that rural Alberta didn't offer enough sympathy for Edmonton however many years ago?

I think you're mixing up my posts with someone else's.

[Bill]

How many Rural Albertans and Calgary folks cried when Edmonton lost Shaw, Telus, and Enbridge?

[AShetsen]

And conversely, is a job in Edmonton worth more than a job in Vegreville in your eyes?

I live in Edmonton. I work in Edmonton and the area immediately around it, in a service that prospers more the more jobs there are in Edmonton. OF COURSE in my eyes a job in Edmonton is worth more than a job in Vegreville.

Do you really expect any other answer?

If you expect anyone in Edmonton to speak up for Vegreville about this whole thing, will you expect someone in Vegreville to speak up for Edmonton?

[Alex.L]

So what's the score? I just want to know whether or not I'm allowed to care about any job losses outside of the Henday.

[AShetsen]

You are allowed to care about anything you want to care about. But don't think that your choice of cares is nobler than anyone else's.

[Alex.L]

And conversely, is a job in Edmonton worth more than a job in Vegreville in your eyes?

I live in Edmonton. I work in Edmonton and the area immediately around it, in a service that prospers more the more jobs there are in Edmonton. OF COURSE in my eyes a job in Edmonton is worth more than a job in Vegreville.

Do you really expect any other answer?

If you expect anyone in Edmonton to speak up for Vegreville about this whole thing, will you expect someone in Vegreville to speak up for Edmonton?

People in Vegreville do stand up for Edmonton. Again, this isn't us vs them. The citizens of Vegreville (and virtually anywhere else in Northern Alberta) identity with Edmonton.

Jesus, does this city really have an inferiority complex so engrossing that we really need our closest small town neighbours to bow before us and grovel for scraps?

[AShetsen]

It's very easy for someone in Vegreville to stand up for Edmonton when it's no harm or gain to Vegreville.
It's harder when a gain for Edmonton is a loss to Vegreville.

It's very easy for someone in Edmonton to stand up for Vegreville when it's no harm or gain to Edmonton.
It's harder when a gain for Edmonton is a loss to Vegreville.

I think no less of anyone in Vegreville upset by this move, or expect them to be happy.
If the move went the other way, I would very likely be upset but I would think no less of anyone in Vegreville who was happy about it, or expect them to be unhappy.

Jesus, does this city really have an inferiority complex so engrossing that we really need our closest small town neighbours to bow before us and grovel for scraps?

It's impossible to read this without concluding that YOU think Edmontonians should not be happy about this, or expect us to bow and give our scraps away. Your opinion is unrealistic to say the least.

If you think I am somehow exhibiting an inferiority (or superiority) complex, then the problem is yours.

[Alex.L]

It's very easy for someone in Vegreville to stand up for Edmonton when it's no harm or gain to Vegreville.
It's harder when a gain for Edmonton is a loss to Vegreville.

It's very easy for someone in Edmonton to stand up for Vegreville when it's no harm or gain to Edmonton.
It's harder when a gain for Edmonton is a loss to Vegreville.

I think no less of anyone in Vegreville upset by this move, or expect them to be happy.
If the move went the other way, I would very likely be upset but I would think no less of anyone in Vegreville who was happy about it, or expect them to be unhappy.

Jesus, does this city really have an inferiority complex so engrossing that we really need our closest small town neighbours to bow before us and grovel for scraps?

It's impossible to read this without concluding that YOU think Edmontonians should not be happy about this, or expect us to bow and give our scraps away. Your opinion is unrealistic to say the least.

If you think I am somehow exhibiting an inferiority (or superiority) complex, then the problem is yours.

I was with you until the end. That comment was in response to the numerous comments here Being smug about this issue simply because of an assumption that rural AB didn't care when Edmonton lost jobs.

I don't think Edmontonians should be happy about this, as it will only add to any real or perceived ill-will toward our city from our neighbours. Jobs are great, but if they can take them from a Vegreville after 20 years it would be foolish to think that they'll stay in Edmonton forever.

[AShetsen]

^I see. Obviously, then, I was mistaken to interpret your quoted comment as I did.

My own stance has been clear since Post 28 in this thread. I did say the stereotyped rural-Albertan attitude toward the big city annoyed me, but then I immediately acknowledged that the big cities had just as much of a stereotyped attitude toward the rural/small town areas.

Thus I am really arguing without any moral basis, but purely on self-interest. I withdraw any parts of my later posts that imply any moral judgement.

[Sonic Death Monkey]

I think what people are losing sight of is one reason for moving to Edmonton is employee attraction and retention.

Let's face it, you're going to find more fluently bilingual professionals in Central Canada than in the West. And I would bet you my left nut many of these young bilingual professionals they want to hire would rather work in a large city than in a small town in the middle of the prairie. How many of these people from southern Ontario and Quebec would be willing to relocate to the other side of the country to live in Vegreville?

Move to Edmonton - OK so it's not as sexy as Montreal or Toronto and it's likely more than a few will move back when the opportunity arises - but you still have lots of dining, nightlife, shopping, concerts, sports, recreation, diversity, plenty of housing choices, education choices, public transportation, a large dating pool, and all the excitement & hustle & bustle. Move to small town Alberta - you're over 1 hr away from the big city limits, plenty of redneck attitudes (and some who still harbor eastern ba5tard sentiments) and very little to see and do. Why else do small towns have trouble attracting and retaining professionals (especially doctors and teachers) and workers, or why many young people bolt for the big city once they graduate from high school?

I was raised in small town Alberta so I know of what I speak. And I would never go back ever again, I only go just long enough to visit family. Moreover I know a couple of former employees of the Vegreville immigration office who think this move makes plenty of sense for the reasons already stated in this thread.

[JayBee]

so what's the score? I just want to know whether or not i'm allowed to care about any job losses outside of the henday.

wtf?

What job losses?

[Alex.L]

so what's the score? I just want to know whether or not i'm allowed to care about any job losses outside of the henday.

wtf?

What job losses?

My question re:the score was in response to

How many Rural Albertans and Calgary folks cried when Edmonton lost Shaw, Telus, and Enbridge?

So I'll ask again, what's the current score? Has rural AB paid their fair share of job losses now? Are we approaching equal footing? Will we be able to get past the attitude displayed above if future cuts are made at the Provincial or Federal level that seriously harm a rural centre?

Or do these 280 lost jobs do nothing to heal the 20yr old festering wound that cuts in Edmonton left for some?

[Medwards]

so what's the score? I just want to know whether or not i'm allowed to care about any job losses outside of the henday.

wtf?

What job losses?

Do you really think everyone who was working in vegreville will come to Edmonton? Seriously? Those are the job losses.

[moahunter]

^they are only considered lost jobs, and its only considered a tradgedy, if it leaves Edmonton. Here is a quote from the safeway thread that illustrates. This immigration center is a way bigger impact on Vegerville / portion of business community / impact on community groups / population, than Edmonton "losing" a dozen jobs in a regional business unit:

That place is a headquarters magnet.

OMG!!!! We lost the bid to be the host city of the "Sobey's Western BU.!!"" Serious? Who cares if Calgary got it......it's a non issue...let them have the 12 or so positions that pay 6 figures.....lol

edmonton is losing a damn site more than 12 or so positions and it's no laughing matter even if it is fait accompli. we have a pretty poor record of attracting and retaining not only head offices but regional offices, business units, distribution centres... and it's not just the direct jobs which are counted in the hundreds, not in the dozens. it's the spouses and children and family visits and houses bought and the purchasing of everything from hair cuts to groceries to furniture and cars. it's the removal of volunteer time and corporate as well as personal support for charities and community groups. who cares? we all should.

http://www.connect2edmonton.ca/showt...hlight=safeway

Who cares? All Albertans should.

[Top_Dawg]

I remember it very well - no #WeareEdmonton then, just a lot of people in rural Alberta cheering Klein on saying he was doing a good job and some saying he should cut more. Of course it was easier to cheer when you are not then one whose ox is being gored. I know many people had to leave here at that time, but for those of us who hunkered down and were able to ride it all out - this is something we will never forget. I don't think about this every day and certainly don't dwell on the past all the time, but when we are asked to support others losing jobs in Alberta I do remember when that support was not there for us from other Albertans.

Top_Dawg also remembers it well.

And it sounds to Top_Dawg as though you were and continue to be in denial of the reality of the times ol' Davey boy.

First of all Alberta was running record deficits.

Secondly, leading up to the government cuts of the 90s, the provincial public service had become so fat, so lazy, so complacent, so self-satisfied, that a good cull was desperately needed.

Remember the administrative assistants who were making 50k a year ? When the private sector wasn't even paying 30k ?

School teachers and nurses with nary a scant 10 years in making $75k or more ?

While engineers in the private sector were lucky to be making $50k.

If they were employed.

So there were cuts.

Actually there was privatization.

And the people who were cut from government payrolls were needed in the private sector to do the work that was being outsourced.

'Course the private sector didn't pay them the out of control salaries and benefits and pensions that govy did.

Worse for them yet, they were expected to work instead of sittin' 'round chokin' da chicken as they had become accustomed to.

And in the private sector there was no place to hide. The royal dog fuckers were exposed. And got their fat asses kicked out the door.

Remember the ones who stayed ?

Remember the belly aching when they were asked to take a 5% cut ? From already bloated salaries ?

Listening to their whining one would think this would make them homeless.

So yeah, there was cheering from some quarters when the cuts came.

Only because they were so desperately needed.

And as Top_Dawg types this, recollecting how it was back then - it is so obvious that after Klein cleaned up the mess as best he could, his successors drove us right back to were we were before.

Only this time it's way worse.

[kcantor]

^they are only considered lost jobs, and its only considered a tradgedy, if it leaves Edmonton. Here is a quote from the safeway thread that illustrates. This immigration center is a way bigger impact on Vegerville / portion of business community / impact on community groups / population, than Edmonton "losing" a dozen jobs in a regional business unit:

That place is a headquarters magnet.

OMG!!!! We lost the bid to be the host city of the "Sobey's Western BU.!!"" Serious? Who cares if Calgary got it......it's a non issue...let them have the 12 or so positions that pay 6 figures.....lol

edmonton is losing a damn site more than 12 or so positions and it's no laughing matter even if it is fait accompli. we have a pretty poor record of attracting and retaining not only head offices but regional offices, business units, distribution centres... and it's not just the direct jobs which are counted in the hundreds, not in the dozens. it's the spouses and children and family visits and houses bought and the purchasing of everything from hair cuts to groceries to furniture and cars. it's the removal of volunteer time and corporate as well as personal support for charities and community groups. who cares? we all should.

http://www.connect2edmonton.ca/showt...hlight=safeway

Who cares? All Albertans should.

you're losing context again...

the post you quoted was entirely about edmonton's responses and responsibilities in regard to things that edmonton was - and still is - responsible for in terms of losing businesses.

it certainly didn't suggest that calgary should have done a better job in supporting edmonton by turning down those businesses who chose to move from here to there.

if anything, calgary was probably actively recruiting many of those businesses to relocate and there's certainly no suggestion i've run across indicating that edmonton lobbied the feds to move this particular operation from vegreville to edmonton.

[kcantor]

firstly, you have more confidence in trudeau and butts than i do.

So who the F is "Butts"?

http://www.macleans.ca/politics/otta...rime-minister/

[KC]

firstly, you have more confidence in trudeau and butts than i do.

So who the F is "Butts"?

http://www.macleans.ca/politics/otta...rime-minister/

Intersting article - thanks for posting. Seems Butt likes to use the "F" word too. He's likely earned the right. So, is it still the "F" word or should it now be called the "F" letter?

Why do people love using the F word so much?
28 Answers


Shefali Khokhar
Written Jul 23, 2014
To answer questions of human nature, we must of course include the viewpoint of a spiritual leader. A spiritually inclined friend introduced me to Shree Rajneesh (Osho)'s views on the subject:

"Beloved Master, I feel shocked when you use the word "****". What to do?"

"Sargamo, it is one of the most beautiful words.
The English language should be proud of it.
I don't think any other language has such a beautiful word.
One Tom from California has done some great research on it.
I think he must be the famous Tom of Tom, Dick and Harry fame.
He says: One of the most interesting words in the English language today is the word '****'.
It is one magical word: just by its sound it can describe pain, pleasure, hate and love.
In language it falls into many grammatical categories.
It can be used as a verb, both transitive (John ****** Mary) and intransitive (Mary was ****** by John), and as a noun (Mary is a fine
****).
It can be used as an adjective (Mary is ******* beautiful).
As you can see there are not many words with the versatility of '****'.
Besides the sexual meaning, there are also the following uses:

Fraud: I got ****** at the used car lot.
Ignorance: ****** if I know.
Trouble: I guess I am ****** now!
Aggression: **** you!
Displeasure: What the **** is going on here?
Difficulty: I can't understand this ******* job.
Incompetence: He is a ****-off.
Suspicion: What the **** are you doing?
Enjoyment: I had a ******* good time.
Request: Get the **** out of here!
Hostility: I am going to knock your ******* head off!
Greeting: How the **** are you?
Apathy: Who gives a ****?
Innovation: Get a bigger ******* hammer.
Surprise: ****! You scared the **** out of me!
Anxiety: Today is really ******.

And it is very healthy too.If every morning you do it as a Transcendental Meditation -- just when you get up, the first thing, repeat the mantra "**** you!" five times -- it clears the throat.
That's how I keep my throat clear!"

https://www.quora.com/Why-do-people-...F-word-so-much

[KC]

As someone who grew up very near Vegreville, and who knows plenty of people who still live and work there, this is a brutal hit for the town. It's all fine and dandy to take this right down to the numbers and say that it costs less if they move the processing centre to Canada Place, but that's not actually how the world works. This isn't a corporation where they simply exist to maximize profits (by minimizing costs). This is a government agency, and there are other places where costs could be cut with less impact and backlash this has and will cause.

Do they have a responsibility to spend tax dollars wisely? Of course they do. Is closing a major employer in a relatively small centre the best way to do that? I'd argue that it isn't.

If this is a political play, or some sort of punishment to the riding for being a Conservative slam-dunk every election then I'm saddened by where our Federal Government's priorities lie. That's not a shot at the Liberals, it's a shot at anybody who, after being elected, would play with the future of a town simply because they hold a grudge.

I believe government, just like corporations, tend to be brutal and uncaring when it comes to such decisions. Each often follows a very narrow ideology. Like the business person that says his fiduciary responsibility is foremost to the shareholders. It's a crock of ****. Everyone has a higher responsibility to their country and its citizens than they do to their capitalistic ideology. Yes, there may be legal fiduciary responsibilities and limitations but greed, revenge and simple personal preference drive a lot of decision making in business and government. Pursuit of party ideology has the same effect in the government as capitalist ideology has in business.

[moahunter]

Nope.

You forget, unless you forgot the 1990's, a lot of Edmonton's issues were self inflicted...and still are. When I left, it was more to do with the local political whining, demanding, bellyaching, and general silliness so I took a better opportunity and ran...and only came back to hope to spread what I had learned.

Yes, if you want the prestige of the Capital City moniker, it comes with some expectations. If you want to, as we did in the 1990's, demand we get things because we ARE THE CAPTIAL CITY, then you cannot be presented an opportunity to act like one, turn your back, get called out on it, and then lament double standard. Sorry, the expectation comes with the territory.

Live in Calgary for a bit. They see things rather differently. And sorry, part of the Capital City moniker comes with some unfortunate bashing. Olympia gets it. Eugene gets it. Victoria gets it. Regina gets it. ...

Or, we can stick our heads in our own derrieres, pretend it smells like roses, and whine that it is our turn.

Like I've said before...people will remember.

An example of what you wrote, hot off the press. Look at the tone, they are almost a bit embarrassed about the relocation and didn't lobby for it, because they know these job losses will hurt Yellowknife far more than will help Calgary:

Calgary Economic Development, which is attempting to attract new corporate headquarters to vacant downtown offices, said it was not directly involved in lobbying Dominion to move to the city.

“We never like to see a company leave an area, particularly a city like Yellowknife (where) we know Dominion Diamond provides a significant number of jobs,” Mary Moran, president and CEO of the agency, said Monday.

“If they’re going to make a move, then we’re happy that they’re coming to Calgary.”

http://calgaryherald.com/business/lo...ice-to-calgary

[SP59]

Is there a statement from EEDC or the city about the department move from Vegreville?

[JayBee]

So, what I'm seeing here is (still):

Cuts to and removals from Edmonton = yay!!! We're saving taxpayers money!!! Look how smart we cunservities are!!! Use your brain!


Removals to Edmonton and cuts to conservitive strongholds = Nooo! Please spend more taxpayers' money! Use your heart!



Classy, people.

Believe it or not it's possible to support Vegreville without being complete hypocrites.

[Dave]

Nope.

You forget, unless you forgot the 1990's, a lot of Edmonton's issues were self inflicted...and still are. When I left, it was more to do with the local political whining, demanding, bellyaching, and general silliness so I took a better opportunity and ran...and only came back to hope to spread what I had learned.

Yes, if you want the prestige of the Capital City moniker, it comes with some expectations. If you want to, as we did in the 1990's, demand we get things because we ARE THE CAPTIAL CITY, then you cannot be presented an opportunity to act like one, turn your back, get called out on it, and then lament double standard. Sorry, the expectation comes with the territory.

Live in Calgary for a bit. They see things rather differently. And sorry, part of the Capital City moniker comes with some unfortunate bashing. Olympia gets it. Eugene gets it. Victoria gets it. Regina gets it. ...

Or, we can stick our heads in our own derrieres, pretend it smells like roses, and whine that it is our turn.

Like I've said before...people will remember.

An example of what you wrote, hot off the press. Look at the tone, they are almost a bit embarrassed about the relocation and didn't lobby for it, because they know these job losses will hurt Yellowknife far more than will help Calgary:

Calgary Economic Development, which is attempting to attract new corporate headquarters to vacant downtown offices, said it was not directly involved in lobbying Dominion to move to the city.

“We never like to see a company leave an area, particularly a city like Yellowknife (where) we know Dominion Diamond provides a significant number of jobs,” Mary Moran, president and CEO of the agency, said Monday.

“If they’re going to make a move, then we’re happy that they’re coming to Calgary.”

http://calgaryherald.com/business/lo...ice-to-calgary

Yes, it is true Calgary Economic Development sounds very classy but I wonder if that really makes anyone in Yellowknife any happier in the end? I doubt the tone affects the unemployment rate there. Of course, Calgary has much more experience in cannibalizing offices from elsewhere so I am sure they learned how to handle it better over time. Also, being private sector this avoids a lot of the political debate and passion that gets more stirred up with anything government related.

[Dialog]

My God

Won't someone think about those poor unoccupied office spaces in Calgary—including the ones being constructed as I type—and Calgary's +10% unemployment rate? You heartless cads!

[Gemini]

Is there a statement from EEDC or the city about the department move from Vegreville?

Probably not as that would indicate they have to actually do some work.

[Glenco]

As someone who grew up very near Vegreville, and who knows plenty of people who still live and work there, this is a brutal hit for the town. It's all fine and dandy to take this right down to the numbers and say that it costs less if they move the processing centre to Canada Place, but that's not actually how the world works. This isn't a corporation where they simply exist to maximize profits (by minimizing costs). This is a government agency, and there are other places where costs could be cut with less impact and backlash this has and will

i have a real problem with this statement. The government should be applauded for trying to save money. Of course they don't try and save money in ridings that matter to them but as you say that is how the real world works.

[Alex.L]

As someone who grew up very near Vegreville, and who knows plenty of people who still live and work there, this is a brutal hit for the town. It's all fine and dandy to take this right down to the numbers and say that it costs less if they move the processing centre to Canada Place, but that's not actually how the world works. This isn't a corporation where they simply exist to maximize profits (by minimizing costs). This is a government agency, and there are other places where costs could be cut with less impact and backlash this has and will

i have a real problem with this statement. The government should be applauded for trying to save money. Of course they don't try and save money in ridings that matter to them but as you say that is how the real world works.

I'm all for saving money in government, but I highly doubt this was motivated by cost savings alone. That an entire town's future all boils down to a line item and possibly petty 'corrections' topast mistakes is infuriating and frightening.

How, in a Government town like Edmonton, can so many people turn a blind eye to the very real possibility that all of those departments at Canada Place can one day disappear simply because it cost marginally less to operate them in another city?

[Thomas Hinderks]

I came across this cracked.com article on "The Albertans against Conservatives" facebook page and while it is about the US Election it does highlight some posters attitudes on here.

http://www.cracked.com/blog/6-reason...alks-about_p2/

[JayBee]

^ which ones would those be, Tom?

[Alex.L]

I came across this cracked.com article on "The Albertans against Conservatives" facebook page and while it is about the US Election it does highlight some posters attitudes on here.

http://www.cracked.com/blog/6-reason...alks-about_p2/

I can relate to both sides. The writer really hits the nail in the head in the 3rd section.

[Gemini]

Edmonton may get new jobs at Vegreville's expense.

If that had read 'Calgary may get new jobs at Vegrevilles's expense' the same people on here who think it's O.K. for Edmonton to get them would change their tune in a heartbeat. They would be bleating on that Vegreville has every right to them. How dare Calgary poach them away.

[Dave]

Edmonton may get new jobs at Vegreville's expense.

If that had read 'Calgary may get new jobs at Vegrevilles's expense' the same people on here who think it's O.K. for Edmonton to get them would change their tune in a heartbeat. They would be bleating on that Vegreville has every right to them. How dare Calgary poach them away.

Really? Have you noticed a lot of outrage here about the jobs moving from Yellowknife to Calgary? Maybe a little bit of "there goes Calgary cannibalizing jobs from somewhere else again", but not really outrage.

[Gemini]

^Tell me, how long have you lived in Alberta for. This is not a trick question.

[Thomas Hinderks]

^ which ones would those be, Tom?

The way I see it, doesn't matter what I believe, read the article and if the shoe fits wear it.

[Thomas Hinderks]

I came across this cracked.com article on "The Albertans against Conservatives" facebook page and while it is about the US Election it does highlight some posters attitudes on here.

http://www.cracked.com/blog/6-reason...alks-about_p2/

I can relate to both sides. The writer really hits the nail in the head in the 3rd section.

I agree it is a good article, well written from a unique perspective. To me it hits the nail on this topic and the far greater picture of what lies ahead if governments in general don't start listening.

[JayBee]

^Tell me, how long have you lived in Alberta for. This is not a trick question.

Four generations, from the first rural homesteaders. Not a trick answer.

^ which ones would those be, Tom?

The way I see it, doesn't matter what I believe, read the article and if the shoe fits wear it.

No Tom. You said:

it does highlight some posters attitudes on here.

Tell us which ones. I want to know what you believe.

[Thomas Hinderks]

Prepare to be disappointed

Just to be annoying

[Gemini]

^Cripes I hope you are answering that question for Dave in his absence about how long has he lived here. It was directed towards him.

[JayBee]

^ sorry, no, that's my own answer.

Homestead not far from Vegreville, before any high horsed ******* tries to tell me where I'm from or who I am.

[Gemini]

^You sure do have one mighty big chip on your shoulder.

[JayBee]

^ why, did you think I meant you?

Just a general point for people to remember before they try to play the "heartless City liberal" ignorant slam card.

How long have you been in Edmonton/Alberta?

[Gemini]

No, I know you did not mean me. You meant the other fellow.
I am asking Dave how long he has lived in Alberta for a specific reason as I have a specific question for him.
If I was to ask you a question it would be why are you a 'heartless City liberal' when maybe you could be fighting for a bigger cause than Edmonton taking jobs from Vegreville. They have been processing people's visa's etc for over 20+ years. If it ain't broken don't fix it.

[JayBee]

^ Lol.

Whatever, buddy.

Say "hi" to the voices in your head for me.

[Gemini]

^ I will. And you keep chirping like a demented parakeet.

[JayBee]

^ afraid to answer the question?

[Gemini]

^What question?. If you mean how long have I lived in Alberta. Is this a response to why I am asking Dave how long he has lived in Alberta, and you don't know why I am asking him that and it's going to keep you awake tonight.
Shout out to Dave. PM me if you want and I'll tell you why I asked that question.

[JayBee]

^

So anyways, still no, not one single person has said how it makes sense to put bureaucratic jobs into rural conservative strongholds to begin with.

Is the World urbanising?

Yup.

Are there good reasons for it?

Yup.

Should governments try to intervene with the invisible hands that are making it happen?

Gee, let's ask some of our right-of-centre bleeding hearts once again!!!

[Gemini]

^ Only thing bleeding are people's ears after reading your diatribe.

[JayBee]

^ I'm so sorry you are so sensitive.

But as a representative of the right of centre bleeding hearts, you're welcome to try to answer:

Should governments try to work with the invisible hands or against them?

[KC]

^ I'm so sorry you are so sensitive.

But as a representative of the right of centre bleeding hearts, you're welcome to try to answer:

Should governments try to work with the invisible hands or against them?

Reasons, just off the top of my head:

When the jobs are non-face-to-face processing jobs, it likely doesn't make sense to put them in a high rent district.

When the jobs don't require a high degree of pre-qualifications, they don't need to be in centre's that attract that labour/"talent"

When the jobs aren't subject to burnout and high turnover they don't need to be near ample labour supply.
...
When the jobs will be welcomed and valued by local residents performance should stay high.

When the jobs create synergies within the local economy, the cost benefit formula can be widened to include associated variables.
...

Certain government and other jobs will create great synergies in rural economies. I imagine counter-cyclical employment or spousal employment in some rural economies would allow creating entities to offer below market salaries which would be welcomed within small economies that see such employment as a sustaining addition.


Etc.

BTW, the invisible hand never really existed.

[Alex.L]

I'm having some trouble understanding why you think the people defending Vegreville are all "Right of Centre". I'd think it's a more liberal stance considering it could be considered some sort of Federal municipal aid to keep a Federal employer open in a town where it makes the biggest economic and social impact even though it may cost a bit more.

If anything, the thinking that this should without a doubt be moving to the most cost effective location, or consolidating resources, yadda yadda yadda, seems right of centre. At least fiscally.

Just because it's happening to a rural riding does not mean that everybody who decries it is a right winger.

[KC]

I'm having some trouble understanding why you think the people defending Vegreville are all "Right of Centre". I'd think it's a more liberal stance considering it could be considered some sort of Federal municipal aid to keep a Federal employer open in a town where it makes the biggest economic and social impact even though it may cost a bit more.

If anything, the thinking that this should without a doubt be moving to the most cost effective location, or consolidating resources, yadda yadda yadda, seems right of centre. At least fiscally.

Just because it's happening to a rural riding does not mean that everybody who decries it is a right winger.

Since so much is online now, what services should even stay in Alberta? Maybe all but a few frontline services should be consolidated in Toronto or Ottawa to maximize efficiency, etc. Does it even make financial sense to move this to Edmonton?

Additionally, should thus just be privatized and let the private sector owners put functions wherever they want. Maybe we could save money by offshoring some of the processing functions. (Credit card companies, banks, etc.) Many companies are successfully using cheaper labour in other countries and what's so neccesary about using Canadians?

[Alex.L]

I'm having some trouble understanding why you think the people defending Vegreville are all "Right of Centre". I'd think it's a more liberal stance considering it could be considered some sort of Federal municipal aid to keep a Federal employer open in a town where it makes the biggest economic and social impact even though it may cost a bit more.

If anything, the thinking that this should without a doubt be moving to the most cost effective location, or consolidating resources, yadda yadda yadda, seems right of centre. At least fiscally.

Just because it's happening to a rural riding does not mean that everybody who decries it is a right winger.

Since so much is online now, what services should even stay in Alberta? Maybe all but a few frontline services should be consolidated in Toronto or Ottawa to maximize efficiency, etc. Does it even make financial sense to move this to Edmonton?

Additionally, should thus just be privatized and let the private sector owners put functions wherever they want. Maybe we could save money by offshoring some of the processing functions. (Credit card companies, banks, etc.) Many companies are successfully using cheaper labour in other countries and what's so neccesary about using Canadians?

The reason for 'using Canadians' as you put it is that it gives Canadians jobs. Those Canadians then pay income taxes and the Government essentially recoups 30% of their investment and can put that money elsewhere. Also, it keeps an important National function in our hands, not in the hands of another nation or interest.

[Thomas Hinderks]

Another tid bit I just read that I think ads some perspective to the overall picture. IMO

From Linked In:


https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/dange...le-editor-pick

[Gemini]

^ I'm so sorry you are so sensitive.

But as a representative of the right of centre bleeding hearts, you're welcome to try to answer:

Should governments try to work with the invisible hands or against them?

'Invisible Hands' LOL Sounds like something a character in a Harlequin Romance has a dream about.

It would have been awesome to hear the noise if they had of announced that the Vergreville office was going to Airdrie AB.
People posting on this thread who think it's fine for Edmonton to poach those jobs would be running around like their hair was on fire.
Like I said, Vegreville loses more than Edmonton will ever gain by doing this.

[JayBee]

Another tid bit I just read that I think ads some perspective to the overall picture. IMO

From Linked In:


https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/dange...le-editor-pick

That's for the victims of the Klein revolution and the PWA fuelled head office relocations, right?

[JayBee]

^ I'm so sorry you are so sensitive.

But as a representative of the right of centre bleeding hearts, you're welcome to try to answer:

Should governments try to work with the invisible hands or against them?

'Invisible Hands' LOL Sounds like something a character in a Harlequin Romance has a dream about.

It would have been awesome to hear the noise if they had of announced that the Vergreville office was going to Airdrie AB.
People posting on this thread who think it's fine for Edmonton to poach those jobs would be running around like their hair was on fire.
Like I said, Vegreville loses more than Edmonton will ever gain by doing this.

So you haven't answered the question.

[Alex.L]

Another tid bit I just read that I think ads some perspective to the overall picture. IMO

From Linked In:


https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/dange...le-editor-pick

That's for the victims of the Klein revolution and the PWA fuelled head office relocations, right?

'the victims of the Klein revolution' = The town of Vegreville

The passage of time does not change that. They are the same, except one you were personally affected by and the other you are not.

[JayBee]

Another tid bit I just read that I think ads some perspective to the overall picture. IMO

From Linked In:


https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/dange...le-editor-pick

That's for the victims of the Klein revolution and the PWA fuelled head office relocations, right?

'the victims of the Klein revolution' = The town of Vegreville

The passage of time does not change that. They are the same, except one you were personally affected by and the other you are not.

Which one am I not affected by?

Just curious.

[Gemini]

^ I'm so sorry you are so sensitive.

But as a representative of the right of centre bleeding hearts, you're welcome to try to answer:

Should governments try to work with the invisible hands or against them?

'Invisible Hands' LOL Sounds like something a character in a Harlequin Romance has a dream about.

It would have been awesome to hear the noise if they had of announced that the Vergreville office was going to Airdrie AB.
People posting on this thread who think it's fine for Edmonton to poach those jobs would be running around like their hair was on fire.
Like I said, Vegreville loses more than Edmonton will ever gain by doing this.

So you haven't answered the question.

Why would I. It has nothing to do with what I have said. Now, their is a reason I asked Dave the question has to do with the thread and certain attitudes.
By the way, what's your street address.

[Alex.L]

Another tid bit I just read that I think ads some perspective to the overall picture. IMO

From Linked In:


https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/dange...le-editor-pick

That's for the victims of the Klein revolution and the PWA fuelled head office relocations, right?

'the victims of the Klein revolution' = The town of Vegreville

The passage of time does not change that. They are the same, except one you were personally affected by and the other you are not.

Which one am I not affected by?

Just curious.

The current situation in Vegreville. I'd say that's pretty clear by your previous posts in this thread. Unless you're about to play the 'I'm a taxpayer, so I want the Feds to spend as little as possible' card. Your few fractions of a cent do not qualify you as affected by this crisis in Vegreville.

[Dave]

I'm having some trouble understanding why you think the people defending Vegreville are all "Right of Centre". I'd think it's a more liberal stance considering it could be considered some sort of Federal municipal aid to keep a Federal employer open in a town where it makes the biggest economic and social impact even though it may cost a bit more.

If anything, the thinking that this should without a doubt be moving to the most cost effective location, or consolidating resources, yadda yadda yadda, seems right of centre. At least fiscally.

Just because it's happening to a rural riding does not mean that everybody who decries it is a right winger.

Maybe we think the people of Vegreville are generally right of center because they haven't voted for a Liberal or NDP MP or MLA for as long as I can recall and Rona Ambrose and other Conservatives made it an issue. The Conservatives incessantly talk about cutting government spending, but perhaps some of them think that the cuts should only apply to others - like those in the big cities.

[JayBee]

^ I'm so sorry you are so sensitive.

But as a representative of the right of centre bleeding hearts, you're welcome to try to answer:

Should governments try to work with the invisible hands or against them?

'Invisible Hands' LOL Sounds like something a character in a Harlequin Romance has a dream about.

It would have been awesome to hear the noise if they had of announced that the Vergreville office was going to Airdrie AB.
People posting on this thread who think it's fine for Edmonton to poach those jobs would be running around like their hair was on fire.
Like I said, Vegreville loses more than Edmonton will ever gain by doing this.

So you haven't answered the question.

Why would I. It has nothing to do with what I have said. Now, their is a reason I asked Dave the question has to do with the thread and certain attitudes.
By the way, what's your street address.

Well if you could (and you can't do anything but expose your base hypocrisy) it "would" defeat my point.

Sorry your angle blew up in your face, but, well, there it is.

[Alex.L]

I'm having some trouble understanding why you think the people defending Vegreville are all "Right of Centre". I'd think it's a more liberal stance considering it could be considered some sort of Federal municipal aid to keep a Federal employer open in a town where it makes the biggest economic and social impact even though it may cost a bit more.

If anything, the thinking that this should without a doubt be moving to the most cost effective location, or consolidating resources, yadda yadda yadda, seems right of centre. At least fiscally.

Just because it's happening to a rural riding does not mean that everybody who decries it is a right winger.

Maybe we think the people of Vegreville are generally right of center because they haven't voted for a Liberal or NDP MP or MLA for as long as I can recall and Rona Ambrose and other Conservatives made it an issue. The Conservatives incessantly talk about cutting government spending, but perhaps some of them think that the cuts should only apply to others - like those in the big cities.

That's a fair point. I was speaking to the fact that the people standing up for Vegreville in this thread were being labelled as 'right wing hypocrites', not the people of Vegreville.

[JayBee]

Another tid bit I just read that I think ads some perspective to the overall picture. IMO

From Linked In:


https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/dange...le-editor-pick

That's for the victims of the Klein revolution and the PWA fuelled head office relocations, right?

'the victims of the Klein revolution' = The town of Vegreville

The passage of time does not change that. They are the same, except one you were personally affected by and the other you are not.

Which one am I not affected by?

Just curious.

The current situation in Vegreville. I'd say that's pretty clear by your previous posts in this thread. Unless you're about to play the 'I'm a taxpayer, so I want the Feds to spend as little as possible' card. Your few fractions of a cent do not qualify you as affected by this crisis in Vegreville.

Utter arrogant ridiculosity.

My roots are on two homesteads near Vegreville, my families saw the writing on the wall, and while change was hard, the City isn't so evil.

Stop imagining there is a wall between rural and urban.

Furthermore, as I already said, there are things that make sense in the countryside. Bureaucracy just isn't one of them.

[Dave]

^What question?. If you mean how long have I lived in Alberta. Is this a response to why I am asking Dave how long he has lived in Alberta, and you don't know why I am asking him that and it's going to keep you awake tonight.
Shout out to Dave. PM me if you want and I'll tell you why I asked that question.

Sorry I didn't see this earlier. I assume I am the only Dave here - no pm message, my answer is 100% public. Not sure why you are asking, but I was born here and l lived here all my life (ie. I have not lived any where else).

[Gemini]

^Please, you have dug yourself into a hole. It's time for you to stop digging.

[JayBee]

I'm having some trouble understanding why you think the people defending Vegreville are all "Right of Centre". I'd think it's a more liberal stance considering it could be considered some sort of Federal municipal aid to keep a Federal employer open in a town where it makes the biggest economic and social impact even though it may cost a bit more.

If anything, the thinking that this should without a doubt be moving to the most cost effective location, or consolidating resources, yadda yadda yadda, seems right of centre. At least fiscally.

Just because it's happening to a rural riding does not mean that everybody who decries it is a right winger.

Maybe we think the people of Vegreville are generally right of center because they haven't voted for a Liberal or NDP MP or MLA for as long as I can recall and Rona Ambrose and other Conservatives made it an issue. The Conservatives incessantly talk about cutting government spending, but perhaps some of them think that the cuts should only apply to others - like those in the big cities.

That's a fair point. I was speaking to the fact that the people standing up for Vegreville in this thread were being labelled as 'right wing hypocrites', not the people of Vegreville.

I wasn't labeling you, Alex. I was referring to the right-wing hypocrites, including Shannon Stubbs and some in this thread.

[Alex.L]

Another tid bit I just read that I think ads some perspective to the overall picture. IMO

From Linked In:


https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/dange...le-editor-pick

That's for the victims of the Klein revolution and the PWA fuelled head office relocations, right?

'the victims of the Klein revolution' = The town of Vegreville

The passage of time does not change that. They are the same, except one you were personally affected by and the other you are not.

Which one am I not affected by?

Just curious.

The current situation in Vegreville. I'd say that's pretty clear by your previous posts in this thread. Unless you're about to play the 'I'm a taxpayer, so I want the Feds to spend as little as possible' card. Your few fractions of a cent do not qualify you as affected by this crisis in Vegreville.

Utter arrogant ridiculosity.

My roots are on two homesteads near Vegreville, my families saw the writing on the wall, and while change was hard, the City isn't so evil.

Stop imagining there is a wall between rural and urban.

Furthermore, as I already said, there are things that make sense in the countryside. Bureaucracy just isn't one of them.

So by your own admission you no longer have a vested interest in the area other than nostalgia. Nobody you know is losing their job (and possibly their home) as a result of this move. You and your roots have left, and since your family saw the writing on the wall you think the people who didn't leave town somehow deserve what is happening.

The city isn't evil. Neither is rural Alberta. There is no wall. We are Vegreville (+850,000 people).

[Dave]

^Please, you have dug yourself into a hole. It's time for you to stop digging.

Is there now a residency requirement to post on this forum? If so, what is it? Please don't beat around the bush - let us know what you really think.

[JayBee]

Another tid bit I just read that I think ads some perspective to the overall picture. IMO

From Linked In:


https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/dange...le-editor-pick

That's for the victims of the Klein revolution and the PWA fuelled head office relocations, right?

'the victims of the Klein revolution' = The town of Vegreville

The passage of time does not change that. They are the same, except one you were personally affected by and the other you are not.

Which one am I not affected by?

Just curious.

The current situation in Vegreville. I'd say that's pretty clear by your previous posts in this thread. Unless you're about to play the 'I'm a taxpayer, so I want the Feds to spend as little as possible' card. Your few fractions of a cent do not qualify you as affected by this crisis in Vegreville.

Utter arrogant ridiculosity.

My roots are on two homesteads near Vegreville, my families saw the writing on the wall, and while change was hard, the City isn't so evil.

Stop imagining there is a wall between rural and urban.

Furthermore, as I already said, there are things that make sense in the countryside. Bureaucracy just isn't one of them.

So by your own admission you no longer have a vested interest in the area other than nostalgia.

Gee, and relatives and memories and frequent visits and friends and interests in two properties.

Except those, you mean, right?

Who the **** do you think you're talking to?

Nobody you know is losing their job (and possibly their home) as a result of this move. You and your roots have left, and since your family saw the writing on the wall you think the people who didn't leave town somehow deserve what is happening.

The city isn't evil. Neither is rural Alberta. There is no wall. We are Vegreville (+850,000 people).

Total and complete imagination.

Try reading what's written and try debating against that.

[Gemini]

^What question?. If you mean how long have I lived in Alberta. Is this a response to why I am asking Dave how long he has lived in Alberta, and you don't know why I am asking him that and it's going to keep you awake tonight.
Shout out to Dave. PM me if you want and I'll tell you why I asked that question.

Sorry I didn't see this earlier. I assume I am the only Dave here - no pm message, my answer is 100% public. Not sure why you are asking, but I was born here and l lived here all my life (ie. I have not lived any where else).

I was asking how long you had lived here for the fact you would know of the competitive feelings (for want of a better word) some people on these threads feel about Calgary.
If these jobs had of went to Calgary some on here would have been up in arms and would be saying they should be staying in Vegreville.
I'm not apply this to you but just something you mentioned or maybe eluded to made me think this. If you have lived here all your life I am sure you are aware of the Edmonton - Calgary rivalry.

[Alex.L]

Another tid bit I just read that I think ads some perspective to the overall picture. IMO

From Linked In:


https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/dange...le-editor-pick

That's for the victims of the Klein revolution and the PWA fuelled head office relocations, right?

'the victims of the Klein revolution' = The town of Vegreville

The passage of time does not change that. They are the same, except one you were personally affected by and the other you are not.

Which one am I not affected by?

Just curious.

The current situation in Vegreville. I'd say that's pretty clear by your previous posts in this thread. Unless you're about to play the 'I'm a taxpayer, so I want the Feds to spend as little as possible' card. Your few fractions of a cent do not qualify you as affected by this crisis in Vegreville.

Utter arrogant ridiculosity.

My roots are on two homesteads near Vegreville, my families saw the writing on the wall, and while change was hard, the City isn't so evil.

Stop imagining there is a wall between rural and urban.

Furthermore, as I already said, there are things that make sense in the countryside. Bureaucracy just isn't one of them.

So by your own admission you no longer have a vested interest in the area other than nostalgia.

Gee, and relatives and memories and frequent visits and friends and interests in two properties.

Except those, you mean, right?

Who the **** do you think you're talking to?

Nobody you know is losing their job (and possibly their home) as a result of this move. You and your roots have left, and since your family saw the writing on the wall you think the people who didn't leave town somehow deserve what is happening.

The city isn't evil. Neither is rural Alberta. There is no wall. We are Vegreville (+850,000 people).

Total and complete imagination.

Try reading what's written and try debating against that.

You said 'My family saw the writing on the wall', which I assumed meant that they moved to the city. Maybe you should stop being purposely vague and say what you actually mean going forward.

There's no reason to get heated.

[Dave]

^What question?. If you mean how long have I lived in Alberta. Is this a response to why I am asking Dave how long he has lived in Alberta, and you don't know why I am asking him that and it's going to keep you awake tonight.
Shout out to Dave. PM me if you want and I'll tell you why I asked that question.

Sorry I didn't see this earlier. I assume I am the only Dave here - no pm message, my answer is 100% public. Not sure why you are asking, but I was born here and l lived here all my life (ie. I have not lived any where else).

I was asking how long you had lived here for the fact you would know of the competitive feelings (for want of a better word) some people on these threads feel about Calgary.
If these jobs had of went to Calgary some on here would have been up in arms and would be saying they should be staying in Vegreville.
I'm not apply this to you but just something you mentioned or maybe eluded to made me think this. If you have lived here all your life I am sure you are aware of the Edmonton - Calgary rivalry.

I still think not a lot of outrage, perhaps you saw what I said in Post #156. Yes, there is a strong Edmonton/Calgary rivalry, but that's not quite how it works.

[JayBee]

Another tid bit I just read that I think ads some perspective to the overall picture. IMO

From Linked In:


https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/dange...le-editor-pick

That's for the victims of the Klein revolution and the PWA fuelled head office relocations, right?

'the victims of the Klein revolution' = The town of Vegreville

The passage of time does not change that. They are the same, except one you were personally affected by and the other you are not.

Which one am I not affected by?

Just curious.

The current situation in Vegreville. I'd say that's pretty clear by your previous posts in this thread. Unless you're about to play the 'I'm a taxpayer, so I want the Feds to spend as little as possible' card. Your few fractions of a cent do not qualify you as affected by this crisis in Vegreville.

Utter arrogant ridiculosity.

My roots are on two homesteads near Vegreville, my families saw the writing on the wall, and while change was hard, the City isn't so evil.

Stop imagining there is a wall between rural and urban.

Furthermore, as I already said, there are things that make sense in the countryside. Bureaucracy just isn't one of them.

So by your own admission you no longer have a vested interest in the area other than nostalgia.

Gee, and relatives and memories and frequent visits and friends and interests in two properties.

Except those, you mean, right?

Who the **** do you think you're talking to?

Nobody you know is losing their job (and possibly their home) as a result of this move. You and your roots have left, and since your family saw the writing on the wall you think the people who didn't leave town somehow deserve what is happening.

The city isn't evil. Neither is rural Alberta. There is no wall. We are Vegreville (+850,000 people).

Total and complete imagination.

Try reading what's written and try debating against that.

You said 'My family saw the writing on the wall', which I assumed meant that they moved to the city. Maybe you should stop being purposely vague and say what you actually mean going forward.

There's no reason to get heated.

Look, I'm not posting my resume or my complete geneological background, but you're not the only one purely assuming I'm some "heartless american city liberal elite."

Neither side of this right-wing invented wedge are real.

What I'm talking about is that within our Province, there are "best places for" things. Best places for government bureaucracy are not the best places for oil refineries, are not the best places for parks are not the best places for farms are not the best places for football stadiums. It's a field called "geographical economics" and there is a great deal of sense in understanding it. People can move and we should be able to define ourselves as Albertan even if we happen to buy a home in [sarcasm]the dastardly evil Capital City which is arrogant and taxatious.[/sarcasm]

[Alex.L]

You need to stop forcing labels onto this. Nobody is calling you an evil urban liberal (except you), and clearly not everybody who is defending Vegreville in this discussion is planted on the right wing. Also, nobody is calling Edmonton evil for welcoming the jobs.

There is a massive grey area here that is not represented by right or left wing. We are clearly all interested in the advancement of Alberta and Edmonton.

As for geographical economics. I agree. Vegreville isn't the ideal place for this processing centre. It wasn't when it opened, and it isn't now. However, I'm coming at this from a human perspective. The cost to relocate the CPC cannot only be measured in tax dollars or economic spinoff to the area (although clearly those are very important factors). 230 jobs are affected. That means somewhere in the neighbourhood of 500 people are personally affected by this without even considering the other businesses in the town which will suffer, the property values in town which will plummet if the market gets flooded with homes, etc.