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Thread: Fentanyl

  1. #1

    Default Fentanyl

    EPS are laying charges of manslaughter against an alleged drug dealer who supplied fentanyl to a user.
    It would be excellent if they could get a conviction on the people who peddle this crap. Try to get some of the kingpins behind it too.
    I would rather EPS pursue something like this than put money into a Terrorist Bureau. What I found very surprising about this article is:

    Fentanyl is known for its potency. Just two milligrams, about the amount of two grains of salt, is lethal to most people.


    2 grains, a person could die just off the residue from the pills.


    http://edmontonjournal.com/news/crim...overdose-death
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

  2. #2

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    ive seen a few posts happen with younger people dying where the family claimed it was from a heart attack but its been fetanyl they just dont want to share that.

    It doesnt do anyone any help by hiding this.

    If you ask around its a pretty big issue. One of my friends new hires at work died from this... as did one of my wifes cousins.

  3. #3

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    The problem is the mixing. Its being mixed into everything now to make more addictive / pleasurable. But, the mixing isn't that good, if you get a tiny bit too much in your product, you die. Sad, especially for kids, just try some blow and it can be all over. Another reason drugs should be legal - so quality can be safe.

  4. #4

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    I know of one couple personally who lost a son due to fentanyl and other friends of friends who have lost relatives. In a way I can see why some people say they died of other causes because some people seem to stigmatize drug users. Then the unfortunate thing is if you tell people your relative died of an overdose most people jump to the conclusion it was suicide. You then have to follow up with the explanation that it was an accidental overdose. Then some people still look on it as a stigma. No win situation. It should be brought out in the open. If more people are brave enough to come out and tell their stories of losing their loved ones due to this drug (or any others) hopefully the death count will start to go down. It's great to hear when there is a drug bust and millions of dollars of drugs are taking of the streets but rather disheartening to know it's just the tip of the iceberg. Another thing about this is that if the street dealer does get convicted the hierarchy in the drug trade will just recruit more street dealers as they are the bottom of the drug food chain. If they can start getting manslaughter convictions all the way up the chain it would be even better.
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    The problem is the mixing. Its being mixed into everything now to make more addictive / pleasurable. But, the mixing isn't that good, if you get a tiny bit too much in your product, you die. Sad, especially for kids, just try some blow and it can be all over. Another reason drugs should be legal - so quality can be safe.
    Exactly. Legalize, legislate, crank out a recreational drug pharmacy program at university, create new recreational drug pharmacy retail industry. Crime and black market dries up. People stop dying from taking the wrong drugs. Doses can be carefully prescribed along with anti-addiction/withdrawal drugs like buprenorphine and naltrexone. Pharmacists will be trained to watch for addictions and have access to forms of intervention.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  6. #6

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    I don't know what the answer is, but this stuff seems like Anthrax to me in terms of its ability to kill the unknowing and innocent, and we saw how officials reacted when nutcases spread anthrax about. Here it's mostly just innocent disenfranchised people dying, and not officials lives at stake, so I'd guess that it will have to reach catastrophic levels (if it isn't already there) before much will be done about it.


    Alberta slow to react to sharp rise in fentanyl deaths, critics say
    Death toll from powerful synthetic drug has doubled each year since 2012
    CBC News Posted: Aug 14, 2015
    A synthetic opiate 100 times more powerful than morphine killed 145 people in Alberta in the first six months of this year.

    Thirty-six of those deaths were reported in and around the Edmonton area.

    "We are very concerned over the amount of fentanyl we are seeing on the streets," said Det. Guy Pilon of the Edmonton police drug unit.

    Alberta's death toll from the powerful drug has risen sharply since 2011.

    2011 – 6
    2012 – 29
    2013 – 66
    2014 – 120
    2015 (to the end of June) 145
    Critics say the province has been too slow to react

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...-say-1.3191075
    2016 - 69 in the 1st qtr:
    http://www.calgarysun.com/2016/07/23...plague-alberta

    2016 - 153 in the 1st half (implies 84 in the 2nd qtr):
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...aths-1.3808239

    2016 - 47 in 3rd qtr (implies 200 by end of 3rd qtr 2016):
    http://www.630ched.com/syn/98/154597...anyl-overdoses
    Last edited by KC; 27-10-2016 at 02:07 PM.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    The problem is the mixing. Its being mixed into everything now to make more addictive / pleasurable. But, the mixing isn't that good, if you get a tiny bit too much in your product, you die. Sad, especially for kids, just try some blow and it can be all over. Another reason drugs should be legal - so quality can be safe.
    Exactly. Legalize, legislate, crank out a recreational drug pharmacy program at university, create new recreational drug pharmacy retail industry. Crime and black market dries up. People stop dying from taking the wrong drugs. Doses can be carefully prescribed along with anti-addiction/withdrawal drugs like buprenorphine and naltrexone. Pharmacists will be trained to watch for addictions and have access to forms of intervention.
    I'm for legalizing, regulating and taxing - I think (I could be very wrong of course). However, I do more strongly believe that the idea of locking up addicts and addicts committing minor crimes to feed their addiction seems illogical and irrational, and it reminds me of the misguided expectations of the times when debtor prisons made sense to officialdom and the ultra-conservative, but likely to no one else.

    One problem though is that the 'criminal element' will have to find something else illegal to profit from. I'm not sure what but people with criminal records, etc. will seek out other sources of revenue as drugs are legalized. I suspect that its a bit of a no win game with either the 'getting tough on crime' approach or the 'legalizing the trade' approach, where both methodologies only result in other newer and novel criminal activities. (On a radio interview recently a guy was talking about how the getting tough approach created the current crisis, saying every time governments get tough, the drug dealers/makers up the ante with some new deadlier product.)



    "draconian" - I like that. I wonder if in the future the practise of imprisoning rather than treating addicts will be called "draconian":

    Imprisonment for debt (Upper Canada)

    A series of parliamentary reports describe the scope of the problem of debt in Upper Canada; as early as 1827, the eleven district jails in the province had a capacity of 298 cells, of which 264 were occupied, 159 by debtors. In the Home District, 379 of 943 prisoners between 1833 and 1835 were being held for debt.[1] Over the province as a whole, 48% or 2304 of 4726 prisoners were being held in jail for debt in 1836.[2] The number of debtors jailed was the result of both widespread poverty, and the small amounts for which debtors could be indefinitely detained.

    Upper Canada was a cash-poor province without its own currency. As a result, the economy of the province was based upon credit-debt relationships. To be in debt was to be in danger of indefinite imprisonment. The only protection was a reputation for being able to pay those debts - "respectability" indicated a person's credit-worthiness.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impris...(Upper_Canada)

    More history - I wonder where would capitalism (and the so called "right wing") be today if it were for the ability of people to repeatedly borrow and build failing businesses:

    Debtors' prison
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debtors%27_prison
    Last edited by KC; 27-10-2016 at 02:26 PM.

  8. #8

    Default

    If the brakes are not put on now this fentanyl crisis will only get worse. Maybe start ramping up classes at school about the dangers of it. It would also be prudent to get unions that work in the oil patch (or other places) to get on board. Along with their members requirements for keeping certain courses up to date they should give them a course on drugs. I know these people are adults but it's not going to do any harm to educate them either.
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

  9. #9

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    If pot becomes legalized, I suspect that organized crime will push more harder and addictive drugs like fentanyl in order to make up their losses to legalized pot.

  10. #10
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    Oxycodone, Fentanyl, W-18 Opiate scourge is not a street level origin problem. Its a drug manufacturing, R & D, and patents problem. The history of which is that Pharmaceutical companies have lied about the lethality, addiction, dependence issues related to these drugs. With multiple pharmaceutical companies being sued for this.

    Nor do we have to look far for culpability. No less than the University of Alberta invented W-18 in 1981 and no pharmaceutical company has touched the stuff which is 100 times more powerful than Fentanyl.


    http://www.metronews.ca/news/calgary...e-streets.html

    One might ask themselves, and should, what the hell was the point of R & D on a "pain compound" this powerful. So powerful that not even Pharmaceutical companies would touch the stuff, and have that patent "remain online" and easily available for any corrupt entity to manufacture and distribute for several decades. This is arguably Pandora's box being left wide open to the detriment of humanity, for whom it was supposed to benefit. Think about that.

    Street level dealers, addicts, or small time dealers that are addicts and are supporting their addiction are not the criminals in this, they are the victims of rampant pharmacological and R & D malfeasance that has allowed such compounds to be ever distributed or hit the streets. Addict street dealers are merely following the pattern of use of any prior addictive street substance. Only now, due to increasing lethality of these street available compounds the stakes are now deadly. When as society do we direct our anger and target those big pharma criminals that caused these substances to be on the streets?

    This is the classic case of unintended consequences of societal actions. A NA society that has been mostly hardcore against actual natural Opiates like Opium, derivatives like Heroin, and drugs with painkilling properties like Marijuana was ironically predisposed to outlawing these (often with wild propaganda about killer drugs) and "war on drugs" rhetoric while allowing pharmaceutical industry to discover, patent, and pump out much much worse. All in the name of catering to big Pharma at all costs. Because its big business. Which leaves one wondering how much is unintended.

    I want to see the sequel "Pharma Madness"

    When is that one coming out?
    Last edited by Replacement; 28-10-2016 at 06:48 AM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    One might ask themselves, and should, what the hell was the point of R & D on a "pain compound" this powerful.

    Because sadly there is no cure for people suffering chronic pain. And every new anti-pain drug we either develop or find in nature has undesirable side effects, including real physical addiction.

    I don't blame researchers for keep trying.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    This is the classic case of unintended consequences of societal actions. A NA society that has been mostly hardcore against actual natural Opiates like Opium, derivatives like Heroin, and drugs with painkilling properties like Marijuana was ironically predisposed to outlawing these (often with wild propaganda about killer drugs) and "war on drugs" rhetoric while allowing pharmaceutical industry to discover, patent, and pump out much much worse. All in the name of catering to big Pharma at all costs. Because its big business. Which leaves one wondering how much is unintended.
    100% spot on. The pharmaceutical industry has killed far more people then your 'street corner drug dealer'
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  13. #13

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    Pharmaceutical companies cannot wholly be blamed for developing pain medication the way it is. In the case of horrific injuries (burns, trauma) exceptional pain killers are needed. Of course these medications work best in a hospital setting where they can be monitored and dosage given accordingly. Most of the times these drugs are given by prescription by doctors. Once the prescription is filled the doctor has no control over it. Doctors also seem to over prescribe some of the most potent drugs.
    Once a person is healing they should switch them to Tylenol 3. They should also be asking their patients to go to their office regularly to monitor their progress on these pain killers. That goes for people who suffer chronic pain.
    Unfortunately the illegal market for making drugs is too lucrative for people to stop. It's a world wide issue and is not going to go away overnight. Cigarettes and booze are legalized and yet there is still an illegal market going on (moonshine, cigarette smuggling). There will always be people who will exploit others peoples habits.
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

  14. #14

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    Oh they're liable alright, liable as heck. They created the situation, expanded the market through marketing & lobby against anyone attempting to curtail their peddling.

    The makers of prescription painkillers have adopted a 50-state strategy that includes hundreds of lobbyists and millions in campaign contributions to help kill or weaken measures aimed at stemming the tide of prescription opioids, the drugs at the heart of a crisis that has cost 165,000 Americans their lives and pushed countless more to crippling addiction.
    The pharmaceutical companies and allied groups have a number of legislative interests in addition to opioids that account for a portion of their political activity, but their steady presence in state capitals means they're poised to jump in quickly on any debate that affects them.
    http://bigstory.ap.org/article/86e94...ts-amid-crisis
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  15. #15

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    Problems also lie with doctors for prescribing these stronger pain killers. Mostly G.P's If they stopped doing that the market for these types of drugs would dry up.
    There should be better checks in place to stop people from going to different doctors to get these drugs. Better control at walk in clinics when people are going to different ones to get multiple prescriptions.
    The strongest of opiates should be constrained to hospitals where they are monitored for each patient.
    On another note, if so many people are getting hooked on these drugs the drug companies could make money finding a cheap and effective antidote to get people off them. Patients could go to the doctor and be prescribed for it without walk in clinics etc.
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Oxycodone, Fentanyl, W-18 Opiate scourge is not a street level origin problem. Its a drug manufacturing, R & D, and patents problem. The history of which is that Pharmaceutical companies have lied about the lethality, addiction, dependence issues related to these drugs. With multiple pharmaceutical companies being sued for this.

    Nor do we have to look far for culpability. No less than the University of Alberta invented W-18 in 1981 and no pharmaceutical company has touched the stuff which is 100 times more powerful than Fentanyl.


    http://www.metronews.ca/news/calgary...e-streets.html

    One might ask themselves, and should, what the hell was the point of R & D on a "pain compound" this powerful. So powerful that not even Pharmaceutical companies would touch the stuff, and have that patent "remain online" and easily available for any corrupt entity to manufacture and distribute for several decades. This is arguably Pandora's box being left wide open to the detriment of humanity, for whom it was supposed to benefit. Think about that.

    Street level dealers, addicts, or small time dealers that are addicts and are supporting their addiction are not the criminals in this, they are the victims of rampant pharmacological and R & D malfeasance that has allowed such compounds to be ever distributed or hit the streets. Addict street dealers are merely following the pattern of use of any prior addictive street substance. Only now, due to increasing lethality of these street available compounds the stakes are now deadly. When as society do we direct our anger and target those big pharma criminals that caused these substances to be on the streets?

    This is the classic case of unintended consequences of societal actions. A NA society that has been mostly hardcore against actual natural Opiates like Opium, derivatives like Heroin, and drugs with painkilling properties like Marijuana was ironically predisposed to outlawing these (often with wild propaganda about killer drugs) and "war on drugs" rhetoric while allowing pharmaceutical industry to discover, patent, and pump out much much worse. All in the name of catering to big Pharma at all costs. Because its big business. Which leaves one wondering how much is unintended.

    I want to see the sequel "Pharma Madness"

    When is that one coming out?
    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Oh they're liable alright, liable as heck. They created the situation, expanded the market through marketing & lobby against anyone attempting to curtail their peddling.

    The makers of prescription painkillers have adopted a 50-state strategy that includes hundreds of lobbyists and millions in campaign contributions to help kill or weaken measures aimed at stemming the tide of prescription opioids, the drugs at the heart of a crisis that has cost 165,000 Americans their lives and pushed countless more to crippling addiction.
    The pharmaceutical companies and allied groups have a number of legislative interests in addition to opioids that account for a portion of their political activity, but their steady presence in state capitals means they're poised to jump in quickly on any debate that affects them.
    http://bigstory.ap.org/article/86e94...ts-amid-crisis
    As usual, the marketing side of the pharmaceutical industry is up to no good. You can't blame R&D though. Making new molecules to explore and test structure-function relationships does not create addicts. Interfering with the development and implementation of responsible prescribing practices by medical professionals does.

    The legal prohibition on recreational use doesn't help either. It just makes addiction a much larger health hazard as addicts turn to unregulated markets, and makes it more difficult for addicts to seek treatment.

  17. #17
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    Fentanyl crisis: 9 overdose deaths in Vancouver last night

    Vancouver's police chief says the fentanyl crisis hit a brutal low point Thursday with the overdose deaths of nine people in a single night.

    Flanked by Mayor Gregor Robertson and other emergency officials at a news conference, Chief Adam Palmer said serious help is needed to deal with a situation, which is claiming lives at an alarming rate.

    "Can you imagine nine people dying from any other cause in one day in our city," Palmer told a news conference. "We need a longer term strategy to help people in crisis."

    Citing statistics from his officers which suggest that as many as 35 people died of fentanyl overdoses in November alone, Palmer said addicts need "treatment on demand."

    He said health workers are having to send people as far away as Armstrong and Nanaimo because of a lack of available beds in the Lower Mainland.

    A grim-faced Robertson echoed Palmer's plea. He said waiting eight to nine days for treatment is unacceptable in an environment where an estimated 1,300 people are taking illicit opioids every day.

    "Thirteen hundred people on any given day are playing Russian roulette with fentanyl," Robertson said.

    "It's desperate times in Vancouver right now, and it's hard to see any silver lining when we don't seem to have hit rock bottom."
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/britis...ight-1.3900437

  18. #18

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    ^That's just sad. I don't know why they don't open a small paramedic office right on the east side of downtown Vancouver. A medic getting around on a bike with the fentanyl antidote. It would save them having to send an ambulance out in most cases.
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

  19. #19
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    Actually Gem I just saw a mini doc on CBC and they have many outreach workers combing the streets now administering life saving drugs and such. I'm sure the paramedics are quite involved as well.

  20. #20

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    ^ I seen something similar to that but I think some of the outreach workers who were administering those life saving drugs were taking it upon themselves to do so without prior government consent. Personally I think they were doing a great service but like they say, no good deed goes unpunished. The outreach workers would be called from their office and were running down back lanes etc. to help the people who had o.d. then the ambulance usually arrived after that. It seems a critical situation that just seems to be getting worse.
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

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