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Thread: Enquiry into missing aboriginal women

  1. #1

    Default Inquiry into missing aboriginal women

    So, a major piece of the Liberals election promise is about to be fulfilled (albeit people are already complaining about the scope).

    $53.8 million dollars is going to spent on an enquiry into approx. 1,200 missing aboriginal women.

    The commission has no scope to re-open investigations by police / justice.

    So, what is the point of the $53.8m? I just don't get it, I expect after all this talk, and lots of people making lots of money from this study, we will find:

    - poverty / drug and alcohol abuse is linked to crime and misogynistic attitudes
    - poverty on first nations reserves is a serious problem
    - residential schools history is a big part of the reason for the poverty
    - culture of violence in indigenous / aboriginal communities needs to be addressed
    - police and justice need to be more sensitive / investigate more (or something like that).

    What do you think? Expecting something different? Personally, I agreed with the Conservatives, this is a waste of money that won't achieve anything substantive, and sadly, the problem will continue. Its just a feel good exercise for people to complain about investigation of loved ones, yes its nice if people can be made to feel better about lost love ones, but that won't help things for future generations. But if I'm proven wrong, great.

    B.C.'s first female First Nations judge will lead Canada's inquiry into murdered and missing Indigenous women and girls, and Marion Buller followed up today's announcement by saying "the survivors' losses, pain, strength and courage" will inspire the panel's work.

    Buller has been named chief commissioner on the five-member panel, which has been tasked by Ottawa to help bring a "national tragedy to an end."

    ...

    Dawn Lavell-Harvard, president of the Native Women's Association of Canada (NWAC), says she's grateful the issue of murdered and missing Indigenous women is in the spotlight, but worried about the commission's direction.

    For starters, she's concerned that family members won't be able to reopen cases through the justice system.

    "Families made it very clear that they wanted answers, that many cases they felt were closed prematurely, that they don't accept the conclusion. They wanted those reopened" she said.
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/mmiw...ails-1.3704191
    Last edited by moahunter; 04-08-2016 at 12:46 AM.

  2. #2

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    You forgot:

    - We need to shovel more money at the problem to salve our guilt.
    I feel in no way entitled to your opinion...

  3. #3

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    ^That is something that bugs me. The tone is, "the rest of Canada is responsible for these missing indigenous / aboriginal women", before it even starts. For example, look at the scope:

    It will examine the factors driving a systemic, high rate of violence against Indigenous women and girls, and the role of various institutions, including police forces, governments and coroners' offices.
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/mmiw...ails-1.3704191

    Its pussyfooting around the reality that much of this violence is happening on reserve, at the hands of aboriginal men. Does the role of various institutions, include the bands themselves, and how they are approaching the issue? If that isn't the focus, the exercise is going to be pointless, this isn't something the "rest of Canada" can fix, its something that has to be addressed from within these communities.

    I bet if we did research on the Somali community for example, we would find higher rates of violence and abuse against women. Are we going to have a commission on that? It's pretty clear its all linked to poverty, whether you be first nations, aboriginal, or something else.
    Last edited by moahunter; 03-08-2016 at 02:19 PM.

  4. #4

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    I have a great deal of sympathy for anyone who is missing a loved one aboriginal or not, male or female.
    Studies (lots) have been done on missing aboriginal women and apparently missing aboriginal women go missing in no greater numbers per capita than any other women as per police records. It's one of the reasons the conservatives were reluctant to open a study.
    I should imagine a lot of aboriginal women who live in remote areas may rely on hitch hiking from place to place. That's a dangerous practice. If they live on a reserve and trust everyone that trust may spill over to strangers who are up to know good. You also have the fact some people just leave and don't want to be found. It's a complex issue but an unnecessary enquiry is not going to fix anything. Probably not even come up with anything we don't already know.
    Last edited by Gemini; 03-08-2016 at 09:09 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    I have a great deal of sympathy for anyone who is missing a loved one aboriginal or not, male or female.
    Studies (lots) have been done on missing aboriginal women and apparently missing aboriginal women go missing in no greater numbers per capita than any other women as per police records. It's one of the reasons the conservatives were reluctant to open a study.
    I should imagine a lot of aboriginal women who live in remote areas may rely on hitch hiking from place to place. That's a dangerous practice. If they live on a reserve and trust everyone that trust may spill over to strangers who are up to know good. You also have the fact some people just leave and don't want to be found. It's a complex issue but an unnecessary enquiry is not going to fix anything. Probably not even come up with anything we don't already know.
    Holy ****.

    You start with "I'm not racist, but..."

    Then you quote 'studies' without providing any of them.

    How about statscanada and the RCMP?

    From 2001 to 2014, the average rate of homicides involving Aboriginal female victims was 6 times higher than that of homicides where female victims were not Aboriginal (average rate of 4.82 per 100,000 compared to 0.81)
    Then you finish it off with victim blaming?

    Nice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    So, a major piece of the Liberals election promise is about to be fulfilled (albeit people are already complaining about the scope).

    $53.8 million dollars is going to spent on an enquiry into approx. 1,200 missing aboriginal women.

    The commission has no scope to re-open investigations by police / justice.

    So, what is the point of the $53.8m? I just don't get it, I expect after all this talk, and lots of people making lots of money from this study, we will find:

    - poverty / drug and alcohol abuse is linked to crime and misogynistic attitudes
    - poverty on first nations reserves is a serious problem
    - residential schools history is a big part of the reason for the poverty
    - culture of violence in indigenous / aboriginal culture needs to be addressed
    - police and justice need to be more sensitive / investigate more (or something like that).

    What do you think? Expecting something different? Personally, I agreed with the Conservatives, this is a waste of money that won't achieve anything substantive, and sadly, the problem will continue. Its just a feel good exercise for people to complain about investigation of loved ones, yes its nice if people can be made to feel better about lost love ones, but that won't help things for future generations. But if I'm proven wrong, great.

    B.C.'s first female First Nations judge will lead Canada's inquiry into murdered and missing Indigenous women and girls, and Marion Buller followed up today's announcement by saying "the survivors' losses, pain, strength and courage" will inspire the panel's work.

    Buller has been named chief commissioner on the five-member panel, which has been tasked by Ottawa to help bring a "national tragedy to an end."

    ...

    Dawn Lavell-Harvard, president of the Native Women's Association of Canada (NWAC), says she's grateful the issue of murdered and missing Indigenous women is in the spotlight, but worried about the commission's direction.

    For starters, she's concerned that family members won't be able to reopen cases through the justice system.

    "Families made it very clear that they wanted answers, that many cases they felt were closed prematurely, that they don't accept the conclusion. They wanted those reopened" she said.
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/mmiw...ails-1.3704191
    At the very least you could use the proper title for the inquiry in your topic. It is not an enquiry, which means 'a question'. Rather it is an Inquiry, which means an official look at something. Further, the Inquiry uses the word 'indigenous' rather than aboriginal. Are these honest errors or do they reveal your real opinion on the validity of the exercise? Considering that this is the now the name of the topic I think you should have just used the real name rather than editorialized.

    Beyond that, I don't think it is worth discussing this at length because everyone's positions on this board are already well known, and the decision has already been made to go ahead with it. It is just a recipe for conflict and accusations of racism.
    Last edited by AAAAE; 03-08-2016 at 11:02 PM.

  7. #7

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    I was driving back from the states a couple weeks ago when i came across a random cbc news station that was mentioning a lot of random stories. One topic discussed Jack Daniels covering up that a black slave actually made their recipe.. the other story was on missing and murdered aboriginal woman.

    They had a mother on who discussed her daughters case and a husband who had his wife disappear. I was floored and disgusted by all of what i heard. The one case had a coroners report where the body was so badly beaten, bruised and banged up that the family had to have a closed casket funeral. No one was charged or even investigated. They deemed the death wasn't a homicide. Blood all over the house, signs of struggles, body so badly beaten up but no investigation into the death.

    It put the inquiry into missing or murdered aboriginal woman into perspective real quick when they show you specific cases where the police refused to do anything. Refused to investigate or refused to start a search for anyone. I couldn't imagine what I'd do if the police wouldn't investigate a family members death.

  8. #8

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    ^Wow, that is appalling. It would be interesting to hear the authorities reply to that. No investigation is disgraceful. If that's the norm in the way aboriginals are treated then their is a problem. I don't know what an enquiry would be able to do for missing people though. When a person is missing it is very hard to determine just what happened.
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  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Channing View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    I have a great deal of sympathy for anyone who is missing a loved one aboriginal or not, male or female.
    Studies (lots) have been done on missing aboriginal women and apparently missing aboriginal women go missing in no greater numbers per capita than any other women as per police records. It's one of the reasons the conservatives were reluctant to open a study.
    I should imagine a lot of aboriginal women who live in remote areas may rely on hitch hiking from place to place. That's a dangerous practice. If they live on a reserve and trust everyone that trust may spill over to strangers who are up to know good. You also have the fact some people just leave and don't want to be found. It's a complex issue but an unnecessary enquiry is not going to fix anything. Probably not even come up with anything we don't already know.
    Holy ****.

    You start with "I'm not racist, but..."

    Then you quote 'studies' without providing any of them.

    How about statscanada and the RCMP?

    From 2001 to 2014, the average rate of homicides involving Aboriginal female victims was 6 times higher than that of homicides where female victims were not Aboriginal (average rate of 4.82 per 100,000 compared to 0.81)
    Then you finish it off with victim blaming?

    Nice.
    Did I, did I really start off my post with 'I'm not racist but'. I'm sure you are seeing and imagining things.
    Are you having me on *****. I stated why I did not think their was a reason why an inquiry is necessary. No where in my post did I disrespect aboriginals or did I victim blame. Just pointing out things that I have no doubt the enquiry will find out also.
    Then you go on to tell me it's a complex issue. Yes, it is and it is one I am sure has been studied only not under the guise of an actual inquiry. And yes, the reason the conservatives did not want an inquiry was they found that proportionally the stats for aboriginal women were on par with other races.



    http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/pubs/abo-a...w-fada-eng.htm

    I have provided above rcmp web site which in part does state aboriginal women are prone to more violence but a lot of the violence takes part in their home. You can read it until your eyes bulge. Cherry pick whatever you want to advance your theories. As for missing aboriginal women. Nobody of any race wants someone in their family to go missing. In the case of an adult it can be very difficult for police to track down every one who is missing. If they are adults they have a free will of their own and can go wherever they want. Like I said, some people don't want to be found. If you think that racist your a fool.
    If you are going to reply try to actually read my post before just going off on one. If you think my first post was racists that's your issue.
    Last edited by Gemini; 04-08-2016 at 01:06 AM.
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  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by AAAAE View Post
    At the very least you could use the proper title for the inquiry in your topic. It is not an enquiry, which means 'a question'. Rather it is an Inquiry, which means an official look at something. Further, the Inquiry uses the word 'indigenous' rather than aboriginal. Are these honest errors or do they reveal your real opinion on the validity of the exercise? Considering that this is the now the name of the topic I think you should have just used the real name rather than editorialized.

    Beyond that, I don't think it is worth discussing this at length because everyone's positions on this board are already well known, and the decision has already been made to go ahead with it. It is just a recipe for conflict and accusations of racism.
    My bad on Inquiry, I have changed it. As to aboriginal, or indigenous, that's not as clear cut as you might think. Traditionally, First Nation means a status Indian (as per the Indian act), and aboriginal has been used as more inclusive of all indigenous people including those who don't have status, and Metis. There is a bit of a hierarchy, and even among First Nations there is heirarchy as to order of bands and similar. Indigenous is vogue PC phrase of the month, but it's not fully accepted, especially among bands as preferable to Aboriginal.

    As to the, "we can't discuss because of racism or similar", if anything, that's a reason to discuss. I personally don't like the way aboriginal / indigenous culture has been treated in Canada, but, that doesn't mean I support this "inquiry" which seems to have very limited power (no police review), yet very high cost. I'm willing to bet what I wrote in the OP in the bullets will basically be the conclusion, but I don't expect to get paid 50m for it. The money would be much spent implementing some of the recommendations of the Royal Commission on Aboriginal peoples.
    Last edited by moahunter; 04-08-2016 at 12:51 AM.

  11. #11

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    ^Of note, just recently Metis and non-status Indians now have same rights as First Nations.



    http://globalnews.ca/news/2639115/su...first-nations/
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    ^ Should have happened a long time ago.
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  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    ^Wow, that is appalling. It would be interesting to hear the authorities reply to that. No investigation is disgraceful. If that's the norm in the way aboriginals are treated then their is a problem. I don't know what an enquiry would be able to do for missing people though. When a person is missing it is very hard to determine just what happened.
    It is disgraceful. The one husband went to report his wife missing. He received a few texts mentioning something scary was about to happen and when he went to the police station the officers told the guy that she was probably off getting drunk and that people like them always disappear for days. They refused to investigate this case for a long time and now the wife has been missing for many years.

    This does seem the norm in how people who went missing were treated. The stereotypes police had of these people affected now they would or wouldn't investigate a crime.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post

    Did I, did I really start off my post with 'I'm not racist but'. I'm sure you are seeing and imagining things.
    Are you having me on *****. I stated why I did not think their was a reason why an inquiry is necessary. No where in my post did I disrespect aboriginals or did I victim blame. Just pointing out things that I have no doubt the enquiry will find out also.
    Then you go on to tell me it's a complex issue. Yes, it is and it is one I am sure has been studied only not under the guise of an actual inquiry. And yes, the reason the conservatives did not want an inquiry was they found that proportionally the stats for aboriginal women were on par with other races.



    http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/pubs/abo-a...w-fada-eng.htm

    I have provided above rcmp web site which in part does state aboriginal women are prone to more violence but a lot of the violence takes part in their home. You can read it until your eyes bulge. Cherry pick whatever you want to advance your theories. As for missing aboriginal women. Nobody of any race wants someone in their family to go missing. In the case of an adult it can be very difficult for police to track down every one who is missing. If they are adults they have a free will of their own and can go wherever they want. Like I said, some people don't want to be found. If you think that racist your a fool.
    If you are going to reply try to actually read my post before just going off on one. If you think my first post was racists that's your issue.
    It was not a literal "I'm not a racist, but..." but that's how it comes off. A combination of 'all lives matter' and 'I have a lot of sympathy for this' and then an implied 'but...' when you go on to to seemingly misunderstand a lot of things.

    I should imagine a lot of aboriginal women who live in remote areas may rely on hitch hiking from place to place. That's a dangerous practice.
    That's victim blaming.

    you also have the fact some people just leave and don't want to be found.
    As is this. You're belittling the problem. (And about 1% are runaways)

    I didn't claim that it was a complex issue in my reply (although it is), that was your writing. Please, read MY reply if you're going to claim I didn't read what you wrote.

    Your chart you added, I'm not sure what the point was? That chart is about the occupancy of the house where the person was murdered. Both sides add to 100% (more or less, due to rounding) so I'm not sure what help it is to get your point across?

    Okay let's dig into that report (which my statscan article references)

    You write: "I have provided above rcmp web site which in part does state aboriginal women are prone to more violence but a lot of the violence takes part in their home."

    The study says:
    • RCMP homicide data from 2013 and 2014 shows a strong nexus to family violence. Female victims, regardless of ethnicity, are most frequently killed by men within their own homes and communities.

    So, you're right. Sorta. The way you frame this is that for aboriginal women this is true, but not for non-aboriginal women. It's the same for both.

    Actually we need to use the 2014 full report to get to some real stuff: http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/pubs/mmaw-faapd-eng.htm#sec3

    Like this chart which shows that aboriginal homicide rates are not dropping are far higher:


    You say

    Nobody of any race wants someone in their family to go missing
    Again, some "all lives matter" BS.

    Okay, I'm being a little aggressive here. It's hard to be calmer and rational about this (It's a heated issue), but let's try. You're back is obviously up as soon as I throw up the term 'racism'. Well guess what, it's true. You know what? I could easily be called out for being racist too. Let me say it. I am racist. I don't want to be, but I grew up in Rural Alberta. It takes work not to be. Most of us could be called racist. That's part of the problem. Part of the societal issues that we need to work towards solving. Part of that is accepting it.

    Indigenous women are murdered at a rate 5-6 times higher than non-indigenous. The RCMP show this. You started with the fact that the per capita rate was no higher. It is far higher. Then you say it happens at home for indigenous women. It does for non indigenous too. So let's start again. What makes you say this Inquiry is not useful? Not helpful? Are you still saying we don't have a problem?

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Channing View Post
    Indigenous women are murdered at a rate 5-6 times higher than non-indigenous. The RCMP show this. You started with the fact that the per capita rate was no higher. It is far higher. Then you say it happens at home for indigenous women. It does for non indigenous too. So let's start again. What makes you say this Inquiry is not useful? Not helpful? Are you still saying we don't have a problem?
    I think the concern I have though, re these comments, is this isn't quite the message. Ever since the Picton incident, the insinuation has been quite strong that this isn't an Aboriginal / Indigenous issue, rather, its an issue "caused" by other people, which isn't supported by the statistics. There might be truth that the police aren't investigating properly, and there might be truth that more Aboriginal people are in poverty caused by colonization / racisim, but is there truth that the reason for these missing women going missing, is because the government doesn't care? Or is it because First Nations, families and the communities they live in are letting them down? If its the later, is this inquiry then going to have the courage to point that out, that some leadership is needed from within, that maybe this isn't all the fault of non indigenous people? Or are most of the recommendations just going to rehash of ground that has been done to death already by the Royal Commission and Truth and Reconciliation Commission? The concerns over scope and price are IMO very valid, there isn't a clear indication what this inquiry is trying to achieve, it lacks direction from the outset, because many people have different agendas concerning it. That lack of direction isn't a good sign, it will be quite sad if after 50m spent we get a bunch of sad stories of racism / poor police investigation or similar, and a cut paste of the recommendations of other commissions. It might make some people feel better, but it won't achieve anything for women and girls who can still be protected if the root issues driving those statistics aren't addressed.
    Last edited by moahunter; 04-08-2016 at 09:34 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Channing View Post
    Indigenous women are murdered at a rate 5-6 times higher than non-indigenous. The RCMP show this. You started with the fact that the per capita rate was no higher. It is far higher. Then you say it happens at home for indigenous women. It does for non indigenous too. So let's start again. What makes you say this Inquiry is not useful? Not helpful? Are you still saying we don't have a problem?
    I think the concern I have though, re these comments, is this isn't quite the message. Ever since the Picton incident, the insinuation has been quite strong that this isn't an Aboriginal / Indigenous issue, rather, its an issue "caused" by other people, which isn't supported by the statistics. There might be truth that the police aren't investigating properly, and there might be truth that more Aboriginal people are in poverty caused by colonization, but is there truth that the reason for these missing women going missing, is because the government doesn't care? Or is it because First Nations, and the communities they live in are letting them down? If its the later, is this inquiry then going to have the courage to point that out, that some leadership is needed from within, that maybe this isn't all the fault of non indigenous people?
    I have purposely not responded to you about whether or not the actual inquiry is useful, or at least, a good use of money, because I honestly am not versed enough on the issue to know. I just know that we can't pretend there isn't a problem. And I don't think you, moahunter, are saying there isn't one.

  17. #17

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    ^I really hope those appointed to the inquiry prove me wrong, and we end up with something that makes a difference, I just fear it wont. The Royal Commission on Aboriginal peoples was probably one of the best reports every written, it canvased the entire country and almost every indigenous group. If it builds from that instead of trying to replicate it, and has the courage to recommend inwards into those communities, there might be some hope.
    Last edited by moahunter; 04-08-2016 at 09:39 AM.

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    Some judge has hit the bonanza.

    And a bunch of lawyers are gonna get rich.

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Dawg View Post
    Some judge has hit the bonanza.

    And a bunch of lawyers are gonna get rich.
    I'd love to see how they did the costing. If they talked to the family of every single missing woman, and wrote up their story, that would be $40k per family. I bet a lot of families would rather just be paid that.

  20. #20

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    There are tons of extremely disturbing cases were racism and prejudice prevented any investigations from happening. Thousands of people are missing because the rcmp or police decided it wasn't worth their time to investigate... What harm is there in an inquiry?

    If if this was your family that went missing wouldn't you want this inquiry? Wouldn't you want to know that the same prejudice doesn't prevent the police from looking for your family?

  21. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211 View Post
    If if this was your family that went missing wouldn't you want this inquiry? Wouldn't you want to know that the same prejudice doesn't prevent the police from looking for your family?
    So what then? Lets say they spend 40k on lawyers to come talk to you, and find out the police were racist and prejudiced. There is no scope in the report to actually reinvestigate the police handling of the individual case. Ok. Now what? Its not going to bring your loved one back. And even if the police were racist or prejudiced, that's not the reason your loved one went missing, which is the real issue, and most likely, per the stats, linked to someone in your family / close circle of community.

    I think there are going to be a lot of disappointed people who get talked to, their stories written down, then nothing happens. There is no mandate to re-open all these cases, and even if the inquiry recommends that, there is no obligation on police or justice, who don't have the resources anyway (there are enough crimes today not properly investigated).
    Last edited by moahunter; 04-08-2016 at 10:53 AM.

  22. #22

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    You should listen to some of the cases that I've heard on the radio. No one who's actually heard what the police ignored or chose not to investigate would have an issue with the inquiry.

    The inquiry can come back with recommendations that could prevent this from happening again. We all know the rcmp has many issues other then racism and prejudice. Look at the ex rcmp officers sueing them as a good example. Maybe this is what is needed to have some changes happen within the rcmp.

    IMO if someone can't bother to listen to the stories of those affected by the actions of the rcmp you shouldn't waste your time pretending you know anything about why the inquiry should or shouldn't happen.

  23. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211 View Post
    The inquiry can come back with recommendations that could prevent this from happening again.
    Why do we need an inquiry to do that? If we know police haven't been properly investigating cases, why does it cost 50m? Wouldn't it be better for the government to say: "RCMP / Police - prepare a policy and implement it to ensure racism does not impede judgment over which cases to investigate"? Here is 50m to implement it, use such and such independent consultants to do it?

    Is that what this inquiry is about though? Is it just about failures by police and justice? If so, why is the scope limited in that respect?

    Or is going to look at root causes of violence in these communities that is leading to so many women going missing? I think that would be a better use of the money, use it to strengthen education, implement anti-violence programs, etc. Its better to stop violence happening than try and fix the situation after someone has already disappeared. The recommendations might not be as politically correct though.
    Last edited by moahunter; 04-08-2016 at 11:49 AM.

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    Obviously "we're" not looking for just one suspect here. Just wondering is there a kind of "dots on a map" that shows where these women were reported missing? What will this prove? Well, if there are lots of missing women from reserves, then it could be under the jurisdiction of that reserve, isn't it?
    Last edited by envaneo; 04-08-2016 at 01:58 PM.
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  25. #25

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    Why are you so worked up over an inquiry? Why don't you find the news cast on the lack of police action on these files and then come back here to share your opinion on why it's a waste of tax payer dollars. Our govts waste millions on all sorts of studies that are useles. At least this has a very serious issue its looking into.

    I'm surprised someone can lack compassion for the thousands of missing or murdered woman. One should ask themselves why that is if that's you. There is a grave injustice with the bigger picture that deserves answers.

    I've taken the time to listen to some of the crazy stories from the rcmp. I couldn't imagine going through what so many families have faced. Its too bad people's prejudices and stereotypes get in the way of people's understanding of just how large of an issue this is.

    There is an easy start to fixing this mess.. That starts with the rcmp actually taking the time to investigate the murdered or missing woman.

  26. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211 View Post
    Why are you so worked up over an inquiry?

    ...

    There is an easy start to fixing this mess.. That starts with the rcmp actually taking the time to investigate the murdered or missing woman.
    Because if its going to cost $40,000 per missing person, why not instead spend that money on your second suggestion, if that is already known to be the outcome? Its just a waste IMO, unless it goes in a very different direction, it shouldn't cost 40,000 per person to write down sad stories.

  27. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211 View Post
    Why are you so worked up over an inquiry? Why don't you find the news cast on the lack of police action on these files and then come back here to share your opinion on why it's a waste of tax payer dollars. Our govts waste millions on all sorts of studies that are useles. At least this has a very serious issue its looking into.

    I'm surprised someone can lack compassion for the thousands of missing or murdered woman. One should ask themselves why that is if that's you. There is a grave injustice with the bigger picture that deserves answers.

    I've taken the time to listen to some of the crazy stories from the rcmp. I couldn't imagine going through what so many families have faced. Its too bad people's prejudices and stereotypes get in the way of people's understanding of just how large of an issue this is.

    There is an easy start to fixing this mess.. That starts with the rcmp actually taking the time to investigate the murdered or missing woman.
    If we already know the police are treating aboriginal murdered and missing women differently what is the point of any inquiry, repeat myself, if we already know. The focus should be turned on the police to stand up and be accountable (including firings) as to why this is happening. It does not take an inquiry to do this. It does not take another inquiry to tell us the conditions on some reserves, the plight of it's people etc. All those issues have been covered by previous commissions and other inquiries. Put the money that this inquiry is going to cost towards police training on how to investigating all cases equally.
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  28. #28
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    Many of the victims weren't known to be missing for a long time. Witnesses are deceased now, or wouldn't talk to the police or anyone else. I think this money could be put to better use

  29. #29

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    ^And what's to say that all the 'missing' are victims of anything other than wanting to leave home of their own free will. They are adults after all.
    Last edited by Gemini; 04-08-2016 at 04:17 PM.
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    The real crime here is that aboriginal men die in greater numbers because of violence than aboriginal women... but nobody gives a sh1t because "they're just men".

  31. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitlope View Post
    The real crime here is that aboriginal men die in greater numbers because of violence than aboriginal women... but nobody gives a sh1t because "they're just men".
    You make a very valid point except for the 'they're just men' comment.
    I don't think a new inquiry will release any thing new. Data shows that 70% of aboriginal women were killed at the hands of aboriginal men. I wonder if the data will show the same for aboriginal men. An inquiry will just rehash the same findings as before. Poverty, insolation, alcohol, lack of resources etc. Same churned out rhetoric on what the causes are but it takes everyone (including aboriginals) to turn it around. They say talk is cheap but not in the case of this inquiry. Less talk more concrete action is needed by all involved.

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/rcmp...ders-1.3028150
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  32. #32
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    Top_Dawg has to give you a high hive for that one Kitlope.

  33. #33

    Default A proper inquiry into missing and murdered indigenous women cannot shy away from uncomfortable truth

    Quote Originally Posted by Kitlope View Post
    The real crime here is that aboriginal men die in greater numbers because of violence than aboriginal women... but nobody gives a sh1t because "they're just men".
    Bingo, three times more go missing. Also it seems there is nothing particular poor about police solve rates for aboriginal victims versus other victims, despite all the claims of racisim: (emphasis added)

    There are other inconvenient details that a proper inquiry should likewise consider: that despite rhetoric about police indifference to aboriginal victims, the solve rate for homicides against aboriginal women is roughly equal to that of homicides of non-aboriginal women; that aboriginal men and boys actually go missing and are murdered at a far greater rate (about three times more, to be specific) than aboriginal women, though the launch on Wednesday failed to include any mention of the plight of male victims and their families. Indeed, a proper inquiry cannot merely be an exercise in reiterating the acceptable maxims on aboriginal affairs, but rather, must take a critical, empirical look at the issues plaguing Canada’s indigenous communities, with the goal of enacting measurable actions, for which both sides must be on board.
    http://news.nationalpost.com/full-co...ortable-truths
    Last edited by moahunter; 04-08-2016 at 04:34 PM.

  34. #34

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    If the did change to inquiries mandate to include men I doubt it would come up with anything different than what we already know.
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

  35. #35

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    People deserve answers and people deserve accountability. If the inquiry provides this then it's worth every penny. Of course you can continue to deny anything, pretend it never happened and continue marginalizing those around.

    Isnt it nice enjoying our white priveledge while judging and whining about the racist prejudices we get to live without.

    You guys live in a sad world if your bothered by this inquiry that can put many people's minds to rest. Again I challenge you to find the radio clips of the parents and family members who lost family members. Ones where they had closed casket funeral because someone was murdered but the police choose not to investigate. Yes this happens...

  36. #36

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    ^ You know people would take the 'white privilege' remark seriously if it was not so overly used these days. As if being white just magically puts people on easy street. Being a white male puts them on an even easier path because they are even more privileged that white women. Give me a break. White people work just as hard for a living and to put food on their plates. They have just the same tragedies, trials and tribulations in life. They befall the same issues with missing and abused loved ones. The hospitals, the military, the police forces, the school system, social services, child tax credits etc are available to everyone in Canada to access. Most people struggle with things in life. It's not a cultural or race thing. Quit it with the 'white privilege'. It's a mute talking point. It's an overused cliché.
    Spending more money on the root causes of aboriginal violence etc is not going to change anything. There are hundreds of studies on the issue. The Truth and Reconciliation Report will probably contain all the information they need to go forward. When their are recommendations all involved (aboriginals and none aboriginals alike) should start to implement them.
    Last edited by Gemini; 04-08-2016 at 07:37 PM.
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  37. #37

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    This thread makes my skin crawl. Stay classy C2E
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  38. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Kitlope View Post
    The real crime here is that aboriginal men die in greater numbers because of violence than aboriginal women... but nobody gives a sh1t because "they're just men".
    You make a very valid point except for the 'they're just men' comment.
    I don't think a new inquiry will release any thing new. Data shows that 70% of aboriginal women were killed at the hands of aboriginal men. I wonder if the data will show the same for aboriginal men. An inquiry will just rehash the same findings as before. Poverty, insolation, alcohol, lack of resources etc. Same churned out rhetoric on what the causes are but it takes everyone (including aboriginals) to turn it around. They say talk is cheap but not in the case of this inquiry. Less talk more concrete action is needed by all involved.

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/rcmp...ders-1.3028150
    I think that's getting at part of the problem. The enquiry in terms of the data will rehash the same old, same old. As a result this has been seen as an excuse by for a "do nothing" acceptance of things they way they are. This potentially leads to a vicious cycle of do nothing policing and justice. Whereas a cop that disappears or a politician or connected or famous person disappears and all resources are thrown at the problem. The view is that it's unusual, unacceptable and wrong and can't be allowed to happen again. Same with drugs. Poor disenfranchised people die from bad drugs and it's just how it is. That stats bear it out. Then when middle class or upperclass kids start to die, solutions and resources get thrown at the problem. Being born into the right lineage does wonders for ones survivability and life potential.

  39. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Komrade View Post
    This thread makes my skin crawl. Stay classy C2E
    ^Have you tried an over the counter cortisone cream.
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  40. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    I think that's getting at part of the problem. The enquiry in terms of the data will rehash the same old, same old. As a result this has been seen as an excuse by for a "do nothing" acceptance of things they way they are. This potentially leads to a vicious cycle of do nothing policing and justice. Whereas a cop that disappears or a politician or connected or famous person disappears and all resources are thrown at the problem. The view is that it's unusual, unacceptable and wrong and can't be allowed to happen again. Same with drugs. Poor disenfranchised people die from bad drugs and it's just how it is. That stats bear it out. Then when middle class or upperclass kids start to die, solutions and resources get thrown at the problem. Being born into the right lineage does wonders for ones survivability and life potential.
    I think this is it as well. Its interesting that the crime solve rates aren't any worse for aboriginal / indigenous people. That's not to say that's good, its just a reality there is only so much resource, and like it or not, the police can only do so much in respect of people trapped in a poverty cycle of violence, family abuse and addictions. I think there are genuine racism issues which resulted in so many aboriginal people being in those poverty traps, but I don't think there is proof of systematic racism against aboriginals in the police force today other than isolated incidents. It is more that the police just don't try as hard in general when they are going into high poverty situations, they get overwhelmed by it and fatigued by it, and crown prosecuters do as well. If we want fewer missing "people" (of all races and sexes), the answer lies in addressing those poverty issues. That is a lot easier said than done, there isn't a society on earth that doesn't have this problem.
    Last edited by moahunter; 08-08-2016 at 09:08 AM.

  41. #41
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    I think a lot of people are missing the point of enquiries like this. There are a lot of comments floating around even making it to the news about how we already know what the problem is. The point of an enquiry like this isn't always to identify the problem, it can also be to identify concrete steps for action and give the government a strong mandate to carry them out. As well, if a third party (i.e. not the ministry) carries out an enquiry and has very clear findings, it puts pressure on later governments to carry out the calls to action as well lest be in the headlines as "gov't ignored enquiry findings" during the next disaster.

    Some things I would like to see come out of this enquiry:

    1) Why are crimes involving abuse/murder investigated less and less effectively for Indigenous populations?

    2) What concrete steps can we take to improve access to mental health and substance abuse treatment for Indigenous populations?

    3) What concrete steps can we take to ensure that women in Indigenous communities have access to shelters and other support networks given their remote location?

  42. #42

    Default As Trudeau's symbolic gestures fail, aboriginal women continue to suffer

    Surprise surprise, this inquiry has turned into a total disaster, with bickering and inaction, achieving nothing. The money should have been spent helping these communities, not trying to put lipsitick on fundamental problems.

    http://nationalpost.com/opinion/nati...3-2fa2b7cdf2f3
    Last edited by moahunter; 16-07-2017 at 12:48 AM.

  43. #43
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    But its ok to give a terrorist $10 million bucks, while we can't even take care of our own.
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

  44. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    But its ok to give a terrorist $10 million bucks, while we can't even take care of our own.
    "we can't even take care of our own."

    "our own"*

    Interesting.

    Also, I'm curious what the public might think if many, many more billions of dollars in redress (hey, maybe hundreds of billions or more would be within the realm of possibilities) is deemed or negotiated by the government for wrongs done to indigenous populations.


    * I assume you're talking about Omar Khadr, but since he was born in Canada I have to further assume that you think that he is going to use the $10 million settlement to fund terrorism - or something. Also, he was involved in attacking American soldiers not Canadian soldiers but they were allies...
    Last edited by KC; 16-07-2017 at 08:18 AM.

  45. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaerdo View Post
    I think a lot of people are missing the point of enquiries like this. There are a lot of comments floating around even making it to the news about how we already know what the problem is. The point of an enquiry like this isn't always to identify the problem, it can also be to identify concrete steps for action and give the government a strong mandate to carry them out. As well, if a third party (i.e. not the ministry) carries out an enquiry and has very clear findings, it puts pressure on later governments to carry out the calls to action as well lest be in the headlines as "gov't ignored enquiry findings" during the next disaster.

    Some things I would like to see come out of this enquiry:

    1) Why are crimes involving abuse/murder investigated less and less effectively for Indigenous populations?

    2) What concrete steps can we take to improve access to mental health and substance abuse treatment for Indigenous populations?

    3) What concrete steps can we take to ensure that women in Indigenous communities have access to shelters and other support networks given their remote location?
    With the degree of resurrected threads recently, and due to insomnia, I find myself responding to necrotic threads. The poster in question I'm not sure even posts here anymore. Anyway, the post was interesting and deserving of response, albeit long after the fact..

    1) Its interesting that this is cited but that the biggest thing in the news presently is people clamoring that police should back off doing street level checks. I say this because its that type of policing that often is required to obtain "effective investigation". A complex problem as well is that disadvantaged areas are inversely correlated with reporting of crime, and even cooperation with investigation. A near linear relationship occurs regarding socioeconomic affluence and utilization of police and security forces. A white picket fence neighborhood is likely to report a house or fence being paint gun tagged. An impoverished neighborhood might not report a building riddled with bullets. To this degree the dynamic is not exclusively indigenous, its disadvantaged.

    As far as

    3) This is not necessarily the case and shelters and facilities for instance are over represented in Northern Alberta and rural districts per capita and under represented in major cities. To the degree where people fleeing domestic abuse in Edmonton may have to travel as far as places like Athabasca, St Paul, High Prairie etc. because shelters in Edmonton are routinely ( or always) full. So again this is a feature of victims and disadvantaged in generaly, that we as a society do not look after them, than it is about one specific identifiable group.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  46. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Surprise surprise, this inquiry has turned into a total disaster, with bickering and inaction, achieving nothing. The money should have been spent helping these communities, not trying to put lipsitick on fundamental problems.

    http://nationalpost.com/opinion/nati...3-2fa2b7cdf2f3
    They say this: "The National Post warned from the beginning that an inquiry was no way to address the serious problem of violence against Aboriginals, and Indigenous women in particular."

    Now was this the position of the organization or of some articles published by them?

    Sounds like this was a key reason it was established (source though is Wikipedia ):
    "In 2015 the Truth and Reconciliation Commission of Canada's Calls to Action recommended the federal government establish a public inquiry into the victimization of Indigenous women and girls, which was established later that same year.[11]"

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miss...digenous_women

    Last edited by KC; 16-07-2017 at 08:37 AM.

  47. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Surprise surprise, this inquiry has turned into a total disaster, with bickering and inaction, achieving nothing. The money should have been spent helping these communities, not trying to put lipsitick on fundamental problems.

    http://nationalpost.com/opinion/nati...3-2fa2b7cdf2f3
    How predictable that you would resurrect this theme in countless threads in response to having no success debating the same in the original thread. Predictable too that you would continue to do this after the admin had urged that this NOT occur and in apparent hope that the discussion be contained to the thread.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  48. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^That is something that bugs me. The tone is, "the rest of Canada is responsible for these missing indigenous / aboriginal women", before it even starts. For example, look at the scope:

    It will examine the factors driving a systemic, high rate of violence against Indigenous women and girls, and the role of various institutions, including police forces, governments and coroners' offices.
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/mmiw...ails-1.3704191

    Its pussyfooting around the reality that much of this violence is happening on reserve, at the hands of aboriginal men. Does the role of various institutions, include the bands themselves, and how they are approaching the issue? If that isn't the focus, the exercise is going to be pointless, this isn't something the "rest of Canada" can fix, its something that has to be addressed from within these communities.

    I bet if we did research on the Somali community for example, we would find higher rates of violence and abuse against women. Are we going to have a commission on that? It's pretty clear its all linked to poverty, whether you be first nations, aboriginal, or something else.

    Per your "rest of Canada" comment, I'd say it's hard to determine. Much of the indigenous situation is tied to the original treatment and deals made and how those deals have been honoured. I'd say it's very complex but things like Crown guarantees to keep alcohol off reserves or lack of agreements to take away or replace indigenous freedoms and then doing so could be considered (in my mind) as breaching the terms of some treaties.

    I'm a total lay and ignorant person on all these matters but I've wondered what would happen if say the Supreme Court found that some the terms of some old Treaties were so badly breached that the Treaty was null and void or some such legal decision that essentially meant that all ceded lands could go back to the decendants of the original indigenous peoples.


    I recall this being a very interesting read.

    UPDATE - in re-reading it, it's a truly fascinating read.

    Here's just a small portion, but please do go to the link and read it all. Every Canadian needs to understand some of these issues.


    THE ORIGINAL INTENTIONS OF THE INDIAN ACT



    Excerpt:

    The post-War of 1812 period heralded a shift in British colonial policy. Colonial authorities ceased to regard the First Nations as military allies and turned their attention to obtaining their lands for settlement. Thus the emphasis was not on courting their friendship and alliance but on removing them to remote villages and reserves and freeing up their land for settlement.29 Treaties now took the form of land cession. Furthermore, the Imperial treasury sought to limit the cost of providing annual presents and maintaining the Indian Department and transferred the cost of obtaining Indian lands to local government. Upper Canada began paying for land cessions with annual distributions of goods and cash as a more affordable alternative to the traditional one time payments.30 These payments were made by Indian Department officers.

    During this era the First Nations were suffering from the loss of their land base and traditional means of support along with other impacts associated with white settlement, including disease and alcohol. Pressure to obtain lands for settlement and the distressed condition of much of the aboriginal population brought about various schemes to "improve" their lives during the tenures of Lieutenant-Governors Sir Peregrine Maitland (1818-182 and Sir John Colborne (1828-1836). These plans were influenced by the rise of philanthropic liberalism and evangelical Christian movements which advocated the

    "advancement and civilization" of Indians. The underlying ideology of these movements, which predominated from around 1828 to 1839, was that while aboriginal people deserved protection and basic rights, they were in an inferior stage of spiritual, mental and social development and needed to be raised up by the adoption of Christian values.31
    One of the earlier schemes proposed under Maitland was the creation of self-sustaining communities modeled on white settlements under the watchful eye of resident missionaries:

    Despite its boldness this scheme appealed to many contemporaries as a reasonable solution to otherwise intractable problems. Although initially expensive, it promised an ultimate saving by helping the Indians towards self- sufficiency. It would also open Indian hunting grounds to white settlement, while actually benefiting the Indians, for it would fit them for a manner of life that offered greater economic rewards. ... 32

    As noted in the above quotation these schemes appealed to the Crown as having the long term advantage of addressing the problems of the aboriginal people and meeting the government's desire to reduce the fiscal responsibilities and free up land for settlement. Numerous plans of this nature were proposed, most of which were intended to turn the First Nations into white peasant farmers, end dependency on government and free land for settlement.33

    ...

    The Victorian principles promoted by the humanitarian and Christian movements were reflected in the persisting belief in the social, moral and religious superiority of settler society and the need to convert and civilize the Indian nations. Western education and missionary supervision were seen as the road to improvement. A hallmark of their advancement would be the rejection of communal land holding and all vestiges of collective life in favour of individualism.44 The success of Indian Department programs continued to be measured by the criteria of individualism, the assumption of Christian values and an agricultural lifestyle well into the 20th century.45

    The reserve system was judged to be central to Indian administration and the goals of civilization. While the reserves provided an anchor for these programs they were intended to be temporary, particularly in their collective form. The findings of these inquiries indicated a persistent belief that the Indian people would assimilate into the wider society and reserve lands would no longer be needed.46

    ...
    These limitations were ostensibly legislated to protect Indian lands from being taken over by designing white men, however, their long-term effect was mostly to separate Indian women and children from their reserve communities. A more overt method was legislated to fulfill the assimilation agenda in 1857. The Act for the Gradual Civilization of the Indian Tribes in the Canadas demonstrated the intention of the Crown to erode First Nations communities, remove special status and integrate them into settler society. The intention was explicitly expressed in the preamble:


    Whereas it is desirable to encourage the progress of Civilization among the Indian Tribes in this Province, and the gradual removal of all legal distinctions between them and Her Majesty's other Canadian Subjects, and to facilitate the acquisition of property and of the rights accompanying it, by such Individual Members of the said Tribes as shall be found to desire such encouragement and to have deserved it ...62
    The preamble reveals the ideological basis of all the Indian affairs legislation that presumed Indian society and culture to be inferior to the settler society and assumed that individuals would seek to attain the status of Her Majesty's other subjects. The act also provided for the piecemeal dismantling of reserves by allowing enfranchised Indians to convert parcels of reserve land into fee simple lands.63
    ....


    http://www.joanholmes.ca/Indian%20Ac...er%20Final.pdf
    Bolding was mine
    Last edited by KC; 16-07-2017 at 09:13 AM.

  49. #49

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Surprise surprise, this inquiry has turned into a total disaster, with bickering and inaction, achieving nothing. The money should have been spent helping these communities, not trying to put lipsitick on fundamental problems.

    http://nationalpost.com/opinion/nati...3-2fa2b7cdf2f3
    They say this: "The National Post warned from the beginning that an inquiry was no way to address the serious problem of violence against Aboriginals, and Indigenous women in particular."

    Now was this the position of the organization or of some articles published by them?

    Sounds like this was a key reason it was established (source though is Wikipedia ):
    "In 2015 the Truth and Reconciliation Commission of Canada's Calls to Action recommended the federal government establish a public inquiry into the victimization of Indigenous women and girls, which was established later that same year.[11]"

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miss...digenous_women

    haha. Its interesting that in context the "National Post" is now one expressed view, with one expressed opinion that disagrees/agrees that is so uniform that it may be the opinion of one, or editorial, in which case wouldn't it be better to denote simply the view of the editor rather than all who work for it unless downsizing has resulted in.....

    Oh this is all sad. This is what objective news has now become. Its instead polarized from the outset and "we knew this would occur" and we're now describing it as occurred, so that we're right, and that people will read us as an informational source.

    I would read any better option. I keep looking for those sources.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  50. #50

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^That is something that bugs me. The tone is, "the rest of Canada is responsible for these missing indigenous / aboriginal women", before it even starts. For example, look at the scope:

    It will examine the factors driving a systemic, high rate of violence against Indigenous women and girls, and the role of various institutions, including police forces, governments and coroners' offices.
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/mmiw...ails-1.3704191

    Its pussyfooting around the reality that much of this violence is happening on reserve, at the hands of aboriginal men. Does the role of various institutions, include the bands themselves, and how they are approaching the issue? If that isn't the focus, the exercise is going to be pointless, this isn't something the "rest of Canada" can fix, its something that has to be addressed from within these communities.

    I bet if we did research on the Somali community for example, we would find higher rates of violence and abuse against women. Are we going to have a commission on that? It's pretty clear its all linked to poverty, whether you be first nations, aboriginal, or something else.
    More responding to dead posts;

    The instance of domestic abuse is not simply related to poverty. Domestic abuse occurs for all socioeconomic status, recidivism occurs for all and contrary to what might be thought recidivism of abuse can actually be more salient in privileged class due to a reluctance to leave wealth.

    Domestic abuse reporting also defies some other statistics in that all socioeconomic classes under report this abuse.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  51. #51

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^That is something that bugs me. The tone is, "the rest of Canada is responsible for these missing indigenous / aboriginal women", before it even starts. For example, look at the scope:

    It will examine the factors driving a systemic, high rate of violence against Indigenous women and girls, and the role of various institutions, including police forces, governments and coroners' offices.
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/mmiw...ails-1.3704191

    Its pussyfooting around the reality that much of this violence is happening on reserve, at the hands of aboriginal men. Does the role of various institutions, include the bands themselves, and how they are approaching the issue? If that isn't the focus, the exercise is going to be pointless, this isn't something the "rest of Canada" can fix, its something that has to be addressed from within these communities.

    I bet if we did research on the Somali community for example, we would find higher rates of violence and abuse against women. Are we going to have a commission on that? It's pretty clear its all linked to poverty, whether you be first nations, aboriginal, or something else.
    More responding to dead posts;

    The instance of domestic abuse is not simply related to poverty. Domestic abuse occurs for all socioeconomic status, recidivism occurs for all and contrary to what might be thought recidivism of abuse can actually be more salient in privileged class due to a reluctance to leave wealth.

    Domestic abuse reporting also defies some other statistics in that all socioeconomic classes under report this abuse.
    Dead posts?

    Has the sentiment died?


    On the stats - wholeheartedly agree.
    Similarly abuses within Christian sects was once grossly underreported but that has changed. However, while I suspect similar abuse occurs in other religions (why would they differ?), I also suspect that some other factors are preventing disclosure or media coverage
    Last edited by KC; 16-07-2017 at 10:18 AM.

  52. #52

    Default Trudeau sidesteps calls to reboot MMIW inquiry amid calls for resignations

    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Surprise surprise, this inquiry has turned into a total disaster, with bickering and inaction, achieving nothing. The money should have been spent helping these communities, not trying to put lipsitick on fundamental problems.

    http://nationalpost.com/opinion/nati...3-2fa2b7cdf2f3
    They say this: "The National Post warned from the beginning that an inquiry was no way to address the serious problem of violence against Aboriginals, and Indigenous women in particular."

    Now was this the position of the organization or of some articles published by them?

    Sounds like this was a key reason it was established (source though is Wikipedia ):
    "In 2015 the Truth and Reconciliation Commission of Canada's Calls to Action recommended the federal government establish a public inquiry into the victimization of Indigenous women and girls, which was established later that same year.[11]"

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miss...digenous_women

    haha. Its interesting that in context the "National Post" is now one expressed view, with one expressed opinion that disagrees/agrees that is so uniform that it may be the opinion of one, or editorial, in which case wouldn't it be better to denote simply the view of the editor rather than all who work for it unless downsizing has resulted in.....

    Oh this is all sad. This is what objective news has now become. Its instead polarized from the outset and "we knew this would occur" and we're now describing it as occurred, so that we're right, and that people will read us as an informational source.

    I would read any better option. I keep looking for those sources.
    Keep looking for those sources, this inquiry is now being panned in both left wing and right wing media. It's not surprising, the idea was "nice", let families have an outlet for their grief, but the reality has turned out quite different because there was no clear mandate as to what this inquiry was intended to achieve, other than to check off some liberal guilt boxes. Here is a left wing article for you (the Star has done quite a few critical articles, more than the post has) about calls for a "reboot":

    https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...ignations.html

    When this commission was announced, I expect every aboriginal family that has lost a loved one hoped they would be consulted. That's impossible though - so instead now there is politics within First Nations and aboriginal communities around who talks for the community with respect to missing women. Often that's going to flow along patriarchal, matriarchal or neutral lines depending on the particular tribes historical culture. All this has done is cause more grief and consternation. Harper was supposedly "mean spirited" to not have this inquiry but we can see now that he was just being pragmatic about how pointless it would be. The money should have been spent providing education and improving living standards.
    Last edited by moahunter; 16-07-2017 at 01:06 PM.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    But its ok to give a terrorist $10 million bucks, while we can't even take care of our own.
    "we can't even take care of our own."

    "our own"*

    Interesting.

    Also, I'm curious what the public might think if many, many more billions of dollars in redress (hey, maybe hundreds of billions or more would be within the realm of possibilities) is deemed or negotiated by the government for wrongs done to indigenous populations.


    * I assume you're talking about Omar Khadr, but since he was born in Canada I have to further assume that you think that he is going to use the $10 million settlement to fund terrorism - or something. Also, he was involved in attacking American soldiers not Canadian soldiers but they were allies...
    Apologies for not responding to this earlier. While I can't comment about the hypothetical dollar amounts here negotiated for wrongs done by indigenous people. That's for the ongoing process of reconciliation.

    Yes I am making reference to Omar khadr
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    ^^ As per your last sentence:
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  55. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Surprise surprise, this inquiry has turned into a total disaster, with bickering and inaction, achieving nothing. The money should have been spent helping these communities, not trying to put lipsitick on fundamental problems.

    http://nationalpost.com/opinion/nati...3-2fa2b7cdf2f3
    They say this: "The National Post warned from the beginning that an inquiry was no way to address the serious problem of violence against Aboriginals, and Indigenous women in particular."

    Now was this the position of the organization or of some articles published by them?

    Sounds like this was a key reason it was established (source though is Wikipedia ):
    "In 2015 the Truth and Reconciliation Commission of Canada's Calls to Action recommended the federal government establish a public inquiry into the victimization of Indigenous women and girls, which was established later that same year.[11]"

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miss...digenous_women

    haha. Its interesting that in context the "National Post" is now one expressed view, with one expressed opinion that disagrees/agrees that is so uniform that it may be the opinion of one, or editorial, in which case wouldn't it be better to denote simply the view of the editor rather than all who work for it unless downsizing has resulted in.....

    Oh this is all sad. This is what objective news has now become. Its instead polarized from the outset and "we knew this would occur" and we're now describing it as occurred, so that we're right, and that people will read us as an informational source.

    I would read any better option. I keep looking for those sources.
    Keep looking for those sources, this inquiry is now being panned in both left wing and right wing media. It's not surprising, the idea was "nice", let families have an outlet for their grief, but the reality has turned out quite different because there was no clear mandate as to what this inquiry was intended to achieve, other than to check off some liberal guilt boxes. Here is a left wing article for you (the Star has done quite a few critical articles, more than the post has) about calls for a "reboot":

    https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...ignations.html

    When this commission was announced, I expect every aboriginal family that has lost a loved one hoped they would be consulted. That's impossible though - so instead now there is politics within First Nations and aboriginal communities around who talks for the community with respect to missing women. Often that's going to flow along patriarchal, matriarchal or neutral lines depending on the particular tribes historical culture. All this has done is cause more grief and consternation. Harper was supposedly "mean spirited" to not have this inquiry but we can see now that he was just being pragmatic about how pointless it would be. The money should have been spent providing education and improving living standards.
    I wasn't responding specifically to the notion that a process has failed or not. I was responding to the nature of a National Newspaper chain invoking a collective, omniscient, first person opinion on the same, as if a Newspaper should have one resolute, unchanging opinion, and then later say "look, our one opinion was right.

    So I'm warning (haha) that the National Post has long ceased to be an objective, or even thoughtful source of information. It is instead an editorial conduit of information that reports on the news only as it see's it and with all the filtered baggage of that attached.

    You're not in the habit of assessing such information, your tendency is to take any citation, any printed information you agree with as gospel, without evaluating the information or what its stating or not stating.

    The article you cited is a long piece that goes at length saying how the inquiry failed without really fleshing that out entirely. It instead prefers a neat tidy panel that makes tons of nice recommendations that look good on print. Like any policy manual.

    Myself I prefer a process that furthers the discussion on an issue. Not volumes of point by point recommendations that rarely get followed.
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  56. #56

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    Well someone else has resigned from the enquiry so that's the 5th person since February to do so.
    What is with these people. Is it lack of direction, lack of insight, lack of resources etc. How much do they think they are going to accomplish at this rate. By the time they get their act together there will be more missing. What an utter and complete farce. No wonder we have indigenous people always seeming to be in a flux if this is the way their whole portfolio is handled. Nothing seems to move forward or get resolved. Along with the Truth and Reconciliation Committee, the land settlement claims, the Residential School Enquiry, pipeline issues I have a feeling that if I lived another 100 years I would be turning on the news and still hearing about these things.

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/indigenous/mm...eact-1.4201123
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    ^ There are so many moving parts here perhaps indigenous people are a bit overwhelmed. It seems to me they need some real leadership.
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  58. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    ^ There are so many moving parts here perhaps indigenous people are a bit overwhelmed. It seems to me they need some real leadership.
    This is a perhaps unintended, but disturbing comment. "Real leadership?"

    Also because systems of thought and leadership are different in varying cultures. Consensus is different, analysis is different, thought is different. In our business world we attempt to transmogrify reality by encompassing it in detailed 1600 page policy manuals attempting to nail down any and every eventuality or permutation that could ever occur. This concept would be foreign to indigenous peoples. Examination would be different, and due to the spirit world and connection with the Earth who they are even having the conversation with would be different.

    I look upon this with some humor. For lack of better terms Caucasian people are standing around looking at this looking for tangible evidence that Reconciliation is working or not. Instead I see First Nations empowered like I've never seen before on an individual and collective level. I increasingly see individuals that are confident, that feel good about themselves, that feel their identity, and that actually have pride and dignity in it. Those are the results people should be looking for, the real people results, not some artifacts, written agendas and manuals on what Govt's won't do over the next several decades..
    Indigenous culture, spirit, celebration is currently thriving in this nation. Where once there wasn't a pulse there's now a strong beating heart.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    Well someone else has resigned from the enquiry so that's the 5th person since February to do so.
    What is with these people. Is it lack of direction, lack of insight, lack of resources etc. How much do they think they are going to accomplish at this rate. By the time they get their act together there will be more missing. What an utter and complete farce. No wonder we have indigenous people always seeming to be in a flux if this is the way their whole portfolio is handled. Nothing seems to move forward or get resolved. Along with the Truth and Reconciliation Committee, the land settlement claims, the Residential School Enquiry, pipeline issues I have a feeling that if I lived another 100 years I would be turning on the news and still hearing about these things.
    Because it's designed to fail, everytime.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    Well someone else has resigned from the enquiry so that's the 5th person since February to do so.
    What is with these people. Is it lack of direction, lack of insight, lack of resources etc. How much do they think they are going to accomplish at this rate. By the time they get their act together there will be more missing. What an utter and complete farce. No wonder we have indigenous people always seeming to be in a flux if this is the way their whole portfolio is handled. Nothing seems to move forward or get resolved. Along with the Truth and Reconciliation Committee, the land settlement claims, the Residential School Enquiry, pipeline issues I have a feeling that if I lived another 100 years I would be turning on the news and still hearing about these things.

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/indigenous/mm...eact-1.4201123
    Every time they restart they step backwards and it costs money. Quite frankly, I dont know what they are going to get out of all this..I just dont.

  61. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    Well someone else has resigned from the enquiry so that's the 5th person since February to do so.
    What is with these people. Is it lack of direction, lack of insight, lack of resources etc. How much do they think they are going to accomplish at this rate. By the time they get their act together there will be more missing. What an utter and complete farce. No wonder we have indigenous people always seeming to be in a flux if this is the way their whole portfolio is handled. Nothing seems to move forward or get resolved. Along with the Truth and Reconciliation Committee, the land settlement claims, the Residential School Enquiry, pipeline issues I have a feeling that if I lived another 100 years I would be turning on the news and still hearing about these things.

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/indigenous/mm...eact-1.4201123
    Every time they restart they step backwards and it costs money. Quite frankly, I dont know what they are going to get out of all this..I just dont.
    Truth and Reconciliation. Which looks like they are getting. Its a process, not a quick one and no Its not easy to remedy that which took place over centuries. Indeed this being a colonial characteristic wherever imperialist colonizing occurred.
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    Because we already know where this all comes from. Have for decades. This is textbook 101 Social Justice.

    Nothing new is going to come from any of this, just a ton of money thrown at it.
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  63. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitlope View Post
    Because we already know where this all comes from. Have for decades. This is textbook 101 Social Justice.

    Nothing new is going to come from any of this, just a ton of money thrown at it.
    You know, from someone spending most of their life living in Milwoods you're saying some strange things here. You know the land you grew up on is First Nations land, right? That is a still widely disputed parcel of land.

    http://www.millwoodshistory.org/papa...s-reserve.html

    Man, I'm 2nd generation here, glad to have any land here, have any livelihood here. Never anywhere else, in the history of the world have a nation so readily relinquished their land as the First nations did here, for everybodies benefit, without which we're not here. Canada wouldn't even be Canada, without the help of First Nations tribes assisting the Brits in battles against the Yanks. Or helping settlers and explorers here exist in the land, explore the land, and find and map out a passage to the west coast. All of Ruperts Land, all of it, and BC, would have fallen to the Yanks without this ample assistance.


    Myself I'm thankful first Nations land and settlements were so readily ceded so that migrants can come in and live here on the very land. The last thing I'm doing is complaining about some money spent on the founders of this land.
    Last edited by Replacement; 19-07-2017 at 12:24 AM.
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    The entire country of Canada is first nations land, not just my little SE part of Millwoods. I don't understand your initial sentence.
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  65. #65

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    I cited where we live intentionally as I know we both live on Papachase land. I just wanted to inject the history of that relative to where we live.

    Again myself I'm thankful to have any ownership of this land. Or to live on this land.

    I detected, perhaps wrong on that, a frustration about the money involved by yourself and others commenting in the thread.

    Theres a lot of expenses by this City, Province, Country, that I would dispute. But money spent trying to resolve and make some kind of restitution to the past is something I don't complain about. Maybe I'm too unconditional in regarding the process but just through knowing that recovery and healing on a nation basis takes time.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  66. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Kitlope View Post
    Because we already know where this all comes from. Have for decades. This is textbook 101 Social Justice.

    Nothing new is going to come from any of this, just a ton of money thrown at it.
    You know, from someone spending most of their life living in Milwoods you're saying some strange things here. You know the land you grew up on is First Nations land, right? That is a still widely disputed parcel of land.

    http://www.millwoodshistory.org/papa...s-reserve.html

    Man, I'm 2nd generation here, glad to have any land here, have any livelihood here. Never anywhere else, in the history of the world have a nation so readily relinquished their land as the First nations did here, for everybodies benefit, without which we're not here. Canada wouldn't even be Canada, without the help of First Nations tribes assisting the Brits in battles against the Yanks. Or helping settlers and explorers here exist in the land, explore the land, and find and map out a passage to the west coast. All of Ruperts Land, all of it, and BC, would have fallen to the Yanks without this ample assistance.


    Myself I'm thankful first Nations land and settlements were so readily ceded so that migrants can come in and live here on the very land. The last thing I'm doing is complaining about some money spent on the founders of this land.
    That is one pretty broad statement you are making about Canada and it's native people. The land in Canada is no different from any other country. Since the human race has evolved man/woman have been roaming the earth for thousands of years. From their roots in Central Africa they fanned out all over the globe. Somebody had to be first to get here and they sure could not lock the doors once they did. Europeans coming to Canada in the late 17th. century was another part of the human evolution. Every place on earth has been inhabited by an ever different race of humanity. Each different group brought their own knowledge and skills along with them. That's how humans evolved and thrived, a concerted effort to inhabit what land they could. How many countries throughout time have been invaded and taken over, hundreds. When the Romans invaded the U.K. you don't hear U K residents saying the land used to be Roman land or when the Scots took over part of England you don't hear them say that this land was Scottish land. Yet in Canada we still talk of who's land we are on. When settlers came to Canada they settled the land, cultivated it, populated it, brought it into the 18th, 19th, 20th, 21st century. Yes they definitely took and caused havoc amongst native people but it was not all bad. The country is what it is today because of immigrants. Yet after all of these years of trying to live together as Canadian Citizens it seems we are still a tribal nation.
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  67. #67

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    Canada's history is different in that first Nations peoples actually, in countless examples, helped explorers, settlers, to survive. Not just to find passage, fight Yanks, fight scurvy, fight starvation, fight exposure, etc.
    Next the entire fur trade was through the cooperation of First Nations peoples supplying the furs for trade, and little return on that trade. This nations viability was founded on the fur trade which established reasons to settle it, and expand settlement etc.

    I don't know that theres another country on earth where the inhabitants were so generally cooperative with allowing and aiding the habitation of what was once their nation and they did this at their great expense and losing the Buffalo, losing fish, losing any usual sustenance.

    In most countries there is much more intense friction, war, between the colonial power and the resident nation. Canada has a much different history with treaties, agreements, somewhat cooperative efforts.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  68. #68

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    ^I'm not saying they did not help, I stated that is how we evolved and built what we have today. My point is that surely a couple of hundred years from now the only time people will be reminded of who's land this belonged to will only be heard in a history class. Nobody wants to be reminded every second week at least I don't.
    It's like sitting down to a meal and somebody else keeps reminding you they paid for it. Who wants to hear it.
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  69. #69

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    Depends on ones view. I like hearing it. I like continuing to hear it because not everything done in industrialized nations is progress to me. Canada quite uniquely needs the continued voice of First Nations protests saying that industry is spoiling this land, spoiling the water, contaminating the environment. Its not by accident that the most salient environmental protests are by first nations peoples. Its them still caring about the land, the life, the water more than anybody else seems to. Other than that free enterprise and global exploitation has often viewed Canada as a simple source of extraction of whatever wealth, at any environmental cost. With the fur trade first evoking that. In short that the land and animals here had no value, only their furs did. Exploitive from the start.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  70. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    ^I'm not saying they did not help, I stated that is how we evolved and built what we have today. My point is that surely a couple of hundred years from now the only time people will be reminded of who's land this belonged to will only be heard in a history class. Nobody wants to be reminded every second week at least I don't.
    It's like sitting down to a meal and somebody else keeps reminding you they paid for it. Who wants to hear it.
    Ahh, but if you're sitting down to a meal in a house that was built from the proceeds of crime and the children of the victims that had their money stolen were constantly reminding you of that fact, you may not want to hear it, but maybe you should hear it.

    The whole history of the ceding of the land to the crown is a very complex one and I don't know how the full truth (which we'll never know) would be seen if it were attempted with a people today. i would guess that we'd see the things that happened and facilitated the treaties as despicable and in violation of all kinds of inalienable rights.
    Last edited by KC; 19-07-2017 at 12:48 PM.

  71. #71

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    Also of note the meal would be superior Buffalo instead of beef, free range turkey, quail, partridge, instead of factory processed chicken, venison, moose meat, instead or pork, freshwater trout or salmon instead of fish farm raised, natural grains, natural berries instead of sweets, vegetables instead of GMO's, no Frankenstein veggies and such. Real food vs processed food. Would also exclusively be 100mile diet. In other words the meals served would equate to the highest priced fare found in most local restaurants and these much superior foods would be abundant, even sustainable, for all.

    Also there wouldn't be a table, people would eat naturally, sitting on their butt, on the ground, as nature designed. Wood would be used more usefully.

    just as a start...
    Last edited by Replacement; 19-07-2017 at 12:57 PM.
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  72. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Depends on ones view. I like hearing it. I like continuing to hear it because not everything done in industrialized nations is progress to me. Canada quite uniquely needs the continued voice of First Nations protests saying that industry is spoiling this land, spoiling the water, contaminating the environment. Its not by accident that the most salient environmental protests are by first nations peoples. Its them still caring about the land, the life, the water more than anybody else seems to. Other than that free enterprise and global exploitation has often viewed Canada as a simple source of extraction of whatever wealth, at any environmental cost. With the fur trade first evoking that. In short that the land and animals here had no value, only their furs did. Exploitive from the start.
    The native groups also want to development. They naturally want what other people want in terms of health, happiness, security, sustainable lives, etc. However, knowing that you or your children will very likely want to sustain themselves on the land for generations and not retire or move somewhere else changes one's perspective on how resources, like land, should be used and how they should not be destroyed.

  73. #73

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    A must read:

    THE ORIGINAL INTENTIONS OF THE INDIAN ACT
    http://www.joanholmes.ca/Indian%20Ac...er%20Final.pdf

  74. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Depends on ones view. I like hearing it. I like continuing to hear it because not everything done in industrialized nations is progress to me. Canada quite uniquely needs the continued voice of First Nations protests saying that industry is spoiling this land, spoiling the water, contaminating the environment. Its not by accident that the most salient environmental protests are by first nations peoples. Its them still caring about the land, the life, the water more than anybody else seems to. Other than that free enterprise and global exploitation has often viewed Canada as a simple source of extraction of whatever wealth, at any environmental cost. With the fur trade first evoking that. In short that the land and animals here had no value, only their furs did. Exploitive from the start.
    The native groups also want to development. They naturally want what other people want in terms of health, happiness, security, sustainable lives, etc. However, knowing that you or your children will very likely want to sustain themselves on the land for generations and not retire or move somewhere else changes one's perspective on how resources, like land, should be used and how they should not be destroyed.
    Yep. Canada is a too young nation where people that do migrate here tend to migrate here due to economic opportunity and in a land where exploitation has been the continual norm. So that theres not th same bond with the land, or even necessarily Canada. Its immigrate here, make wealth here, raise kids here and see what happens. Indeed for a lot of people, including my Germanic culture, the homeland (excuse the term) is still seen as somewhere else. Not me, just saying.

    Arguably the peoples with the least tenuous relationship with Canada are;

    First Nations
    Metis
    followed by whatever settling nations have settled here the longest. For other cultures it will take time. I think it takes around 3-4 generations before, typically, the new land becomes ones identified with land. I mean this figuratively, and spiritually.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  75. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Depends on ones view. I like hearing it. I like continuing to hear it because not everything done in industrialized nations is progress to me. Canada quite uniquely needs the continued voice of First Nations protests saying that industry is spoiling this land, spoiling the water, contaminating the environment. Its not by accident that the most salient environmental protests are by first nations peoples. Its them still caring about the land, the life, the water more than anybody else seems to. Other than that free enterprise and global exploitation has often viewed Canada as a simple source of extraction of whatever wealth, at any environmental cost. With the fur trade first evoking that. In short that the land and animals here had no value, only their furs did. Exploitive from the start.
    Not all native tribes are opposed to industry on the land. Tribes that run businesses welcome the work.
    If you can think of a bigger picture when you are not around do you think the 5th. generation of your family should still be hearing about Truth and Reconciliation, Land Claims and other issues going on today. Whether we like or not the human race is going to evolve more. We still breed and will inter breed and maybe a thousand years into the future there is a great possibility that we will have evolved into one generic color. Now I will not be around to see that and I'm O.K. with it.
    Time may solve a lot of things and also bring up new challenges.
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  76. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    ^I'm not saying they did not help, I stated that is how we evolved and built what we have today. My point is that surely a couple of hundred years from now the only time people will be reminded of who's land this belonged to will only be heard in a history class. Nobody wants to be reminded every second week at least I don't.
    It's like sitting down to a meal and somebody else keeps reminding you they paid for it. Who wants to hear it.
    Ahh, but if you're sitting down to a meal in a house that was built from the proceeds of crime and the children of the victims that had their money stolen were constantly reminding you of that fact, you may not want to hear it, but maybe you should hear it.

    The whole history of the ceding of the land to the crown is a very complex one and I don't know how the full truth (which we'll never know) would be seen if it were attempted with a people today. i would guess that we'd see the things that happened and facilitated the treaties as despicable and in violation of all kinds of inalienable rights.
    I get what your saying but don't you think it is time we started looking forward instead of back. In part there has been progress but for each step that is taken we get dragged two steps back into the past. We have all heard the history of what happened. Every country has a history but through the march of time things evolve and the history usually becomes less relevant. One hundred, two hundred years is a blink of an eye in the history of the earth and it's peeps.
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

  77. #77

    Default Federal government to blame for slow progress, says inquiry into missing and murdered Indigenous wom

    Liberals are being blamed for slow progress by their own inquiry now, seems $53m wasn't enough to interview 1,200 families:

    http://nationalpost.com/news/politic...interim-report

    This is what the 53 million has paid for so far (i.e. not much different from what I wrote for no charge to the government in the OP):

    It does call for the federal government to establish a commemoration fund with Indigenous organizations, and to consider restoring the Aboriginal Healing Foundation, a non-profit that responded to the legacy of residential schools and closed in 2014.

    It recommends that the federal government create a national police task force “to which the national inquiry could refer families and survivors to assess or reopen cases or review investigations.”

    The report also calls for the government to “provide alternatives and options to its administrative rules,” given the national inquiry’s short timeframe.

    Much of the report is devoted to a detailed history of the calls for and establishment of the national inquiry, a description of the inquiry’s mandate, and an overview of previous research into violence against Indigenous women.

    It points to a “consensus over the root causes of violence against Indigenous women” from existing research, related to the impact of discrimination under the Indian Act, the residential school system and the Sixties Scoop.
    I think that 53m could have gone a lot further building a school, providing some lunches, medical services, or similar, or even giving each of the families 44k (what heals more, an academic report, or some money to build a memorial or similar?), but oh well, might as well spend some more...
    Last edited by moahunter; 01-11-2017 at 02:09 PM.

  78. #78

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    The Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women Inquiry is a money pit. Millions spend and nothing to show for it except bickering, resignations, finger pointing and the usual who shot John. Shut it down. All the info they need is in other studies.
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

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    Any one still wonder why Harper wanted nothing to do with this exercise in making lawyers and government bureaucrats rich ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Dawg View Post


    Any one still wonder why Harper wanted nothing to do with this exercise in making lawyers and government bureaucrats rich ?
    No, he knew we would be mired and bogged down, millions later there won't be any wiser, just wait

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    The Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women Inquiry is a money pit. Millions spend and nothing to show for it except bickering, resignations, finger pointing and the usual who shot John. Shut it down. All the info they need is in other studies.
    Its another Liberal Boondoggle # sad
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    Yup. I said it months ago (post 59) that it was designed to fail. Perhaps a better way to put it is that through design it will fail. Nothing is going to come from this what we already don't know. All it's going to do is reopen old wounds and natives stating their voices are not being heard. Mistrust, alienation & animosity being key parts of it. I've watched the resignations without any surprise. There will be more.

    And besides, murdered aboriginal men is a greater issue by sheer numbers but who gives a f*ck in this hyper feminist climate.
    Time spent in the Rockies is never deducted from the rest of your life

  83. #83
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    No kidding Kitlope.



    The Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women Inquiry Conclusions:


    Living a high risk life style and/or associating with those living a high risk life style greatly increases one's likelihood of being murdered.

    When not living a high risk life style and not associating with those who live a high risk life, the likelihood of being murdered is almost nonexistent.



    $53 million chek for Perfesser Top_Dawg pleez.

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