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Thread: Green Energy Projects in Alberta

  1. #1

    Default Green Energy Projects in Alberta

    Given the discussion on NDP budget we had in other threads, and in particular the carbon "levy", I thought to create a thread to keep track of green energy projects initiated under NDP's watch.

    Please post links, preferably with cost numbers and date of initiation, as you see specific projects being announced.

  2. #2
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    A good link for some of this.

    http://www.greenenergyfutures.ca
    www.decl.org

    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

  3. #3

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    ^ Thanks IanO. This looks like a good resource.

    Just to clarify, if not already clear, "specific" projects are the target here, just to see how much of the promised investments by the NDP actually materializes, so the taxpayer can make an informed decision next election around.

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    Little bit early for that given the climate leadership plan was just announced. It will be interesting to see how this actually materializes in the next 3-10 years though.

    Wonder if this thread could instead be turned into a "Alberta NDP Report Card" thread so we can track the success of their other ideas like the energy diversification petrochemical scheme.

    The only thing so far is that bioenergy plant which really was little more than a budget campaign stop. http://www.alberta.ca/release.cfm?xI...2FD8995B4E6638
    Last edited by Jaerdo; 25-04-2016 at 05:18 PM.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaerdo View Post
    Little bit early for that given the climate leadership plan was just announced. It will be interesting to see how this actually materializes in the next 3-10 years though.
    You do realize this is a one term government don't you? They have 3 years to spend this money on green fantasies, after that, it will be used more sensibly (or returned to taxpayers via a tax cut).

  6. #6
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    The projects they approve and fund will take that long to actually materialize and have an economic impact.

    This is part of the problem in Alberta: short term thinking. Diversification does not happen overnight. We will see the benefits of these policies in a decade.

  7. #7

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    This is an open thread Jaerdo so no one stops you on what you post, but feel free to also create a more general thread on NDP report card. I understand these projects take time to materialize but wanted to have a place to keep track of what is actually achieved.

  8. #8

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    A rumour I haven't heard yet us that companies whose owners voted conservative are aghast at the
    Government borrowing and spending and so will have nothing to with any off this government driven spending on infrastructure, green projects, etc. They won't participate directly or indirectly.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaerdo View Post
    Little bit early for that given the climate leadership plan was just announced. It will be interesting to see how this actually materializes in the next 3-10 years though.
    You do realize this is a one term government don't you? They have 3 years to spend this money on green fantasies, after that, it will be used more sensibly (or returned to taxpayers via a tax cut).
    And a year on, the reunion of the right is just going so smoothly, isn't it?
    I think of art, at its most significant, as a Distant Early Warning system that can always be relied on to tell the old culture what is beginning to happen to it. —Marshall McLuhan

  10. #10

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    ^NDP is polling third, I'd be happier with either a Wildrose or PC minority, as it seems would most Albertans. I'm very curious to see how many projects they can achieve by then. It's one thing to talk about pixie dust, it's another thing to grow it - just offering up money isn't going to suddenly make investors bend over backwards for taking a multi year risk on an energy project that will in the future, once the subsidy ends, have to compete with our cheap, abundant, and sufficiently clean, natural gas.
    Last edited by moahunter; 25-04-2016 at 08:05 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FamilyMan View Post
    This is an open thread Jaerdo so no one stops you on what you post, but feel free to also create a more general thread on NDP report card. I understand these projects take time to materialize but wanted to have a place to keep track of what is actually achieved.
    It would be nice if this discussion was free of the political debate. I presume that's why you created this thread.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  12. #12

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    ^ on my part I will surely try to keep it real.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    A rumour I haven't heard yet us that companies whose owners voted conservative are aghast at the
    Government borrowing and spending and so will have nothing to with any off this government driven spending on infrastructure, green projects, etc. They won't participate directly or indirectly.
    Then they are terrible business people and will be driven out of the market by entrepreneurs willing to take advantage of resources.

    It is a dog eat dog world. If one's head is too firmly up their rear end to get over personal ideological predilections and make a sensible business decision, they will get eaten and pushed out of the market.

    In terms of politics, I think it would be good to have an unbiased "report card" as well, but it will be difficult because all we can do right now is speculate. We won't even hear announcements about applications for funding for months, probably.
    Last edited by Jaerdo; 26-04-2016 at 11:34 AM.

  14. #14

    Default Ontario provides 5k subsidy for 1.1m vehcile, Wind farm closes after only 23 years

    Maybe instead of subsidizing green energy (of which there are few economic options in Alberta), the government could instead modify it slightly to subsidize consumption reductions? Then they can do like the Ontario left wing govt and invest in useful things, like this 5k credit for a $1.1m car. Probably a better deal than a wind farm that doesn't last:

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toront...bate-1.3551689

    The Ontario government gave taxpayer-funded rebates to five millionaires to buy one of the most expensive cars ever manufactured, the Porsche 918 Spyder.

    CBC News has learned that five Ontario drivers received funding through the province's Electric Vehicle Incentive Program in 2015 for buying the Porsche 918, which retailed in Canada at about $1.1 million.

    The 918 is a plug-in hybrid, assembled by hand at a specialized Porsche factory in Stuttgart, Germany, and hailed by the company as "the future of the sports car." Road tests showed the 887-horsepower supercar could accelerate from 0 to 100 km/h in 2.2 seconds.
    Per wind farms, TransAlta are shutting one down, because it has no value after only 23 years (emphasis added):

    http://www.calgarysun.com/2016/03/15...dest-in-canada

    The oldest wind power site in Canada has powered down and its turbines will head to the scrapyard with no plans to redevelop until the NDP government makes a move.

    TransAlta Corp. said Tuesday the blades on 57 turbines at its Cowley Ridge facility near Pincher Creek have already been halted and the towers are to be toppled and recycled this spring. It inherited the now-obsolete facility, built in 1993 and 1994, with its $1.6-billion hostile takeover of Calgary-based Canadian Hydro Developers, Inc. in 2009.

    “TransAlta is very interested in repowering this site. Unfortunately, right now, it’s not economically feasible,” said Wayne Oliver, operations supervisor for TransAlta’s wind operations in Pincher Creek and Fort Macleod, in an interview.

    “We’re anxiously waiting to see what incentives might come from our new government. … Alberta is an open market and the wholesale price when it’s windy is quite low so there’s just not the return on investment in today’s situation. So, if there is an incentive, we’d jump all over that.
    So it seems, so far under the NDP's watch, we have been losing "green" energy - per above TransAlta is waiting for the big hand out, funded supposedly by the new carbon tax, to get this thing running again (why couldn't the project pay for its replacement, if wind power is so great?). I wonder how much carbon is consumed to make those turbines, towers and blades, and to recycle them? I'm presuming a lot given their price. At least the birds get a bit of a break - although six people are out of a job (there is so much employment in green energy it seems). Perhaps this will be the first green energy project on the list (which only gets us back to where we already were under the PC's)?
    Last edited by moahunter; 26-04-2016 at 12:53 PM.

  15. #15

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    By invitation only get your free green 'stuff'. Well, not 'free' really, you're paying for it through your taxes.

    https://www.efficiencyalberta.ca/residential-no-charge/
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    By invitation only get your free green 'stuff'. Well, not 'free' really, you're paying for it through your taxes.

    https://www.efficiencyalberta.ca/residential-no-charge/
    Like many things in life. Wealth redistribution. Bill Gates understood that well. Anyone that has had a severe illness has also seen the benefits of wealth redistribution, as does anyone that benefits greatly from infrastructiure, school, etc spending. And those with very high paying jobs often see the benefits of regulation, rules and laws that protect their jobs or enhance their security and wages and benefits.

  17. #17

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    Well one thing I do like about the installation of these things is that you have to make an appointment to get them. Hopefully word gets out that this is the way the program works. I am sure there will be scam artists trying to talk their way into peoples houses and some people will be ripped off. Although I don't see the point of having installers if the homeowner knows how to install these things themselves.
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    Well one thing I do like about the installation of these things is that you have to make an appointment to get them. Hopefully word gets out that this is the way the program works. I am sure there will be scam artists trying to talk their way into peoples houses and some people will be ripped off. Although I don't see the point of having installers if the homeowner knows how to install these things themselves.
    Except there's homeowners that would take the free LED bulbs etc and put them on eBay. Then there's the person that falls off the ladder, goes to the press and blames the NDP for their broken neck...

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