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Thread: Liberals And Trudeau - Performance Review!

  1. #5001

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    to be fair, you are awfully quick to accuse people who don't agree with you or don't support those you choose to support as being bigots for no other reason than their disagreeing with you.
    You may feel I have called you a bigot because I disagree with you, that's entirely your purview. Doesn't make that the case on my side, but whatever. I call 'em like I see 'em.

    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    you say you invite refutation but you refuse to read it because you have already made your mind up.
    Apologies for having inviolable beliefs when it comes to human rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    as for cheap shots, you have lobbed your share of those over the net as well.
    Absolutely! Never said otherwise.
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  2. #5002

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by The Man From YEG View Post
    How about the Harpercrite's Taiwan visit (not to mention his silence regarding the dual-citizen Insurance Broker).
    I have no idea what you're talking about. Could you clarify?
    https://www.thepostmillennial.com/ch...sit-to-taiwan/
    https://www.theglobeandmail.com/worl...sit-to-taiwan/
    https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3795910
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    Thanks. I don't see any issue with Harper's Taiwan visit or his comments. It might chafe with the large wing of the Liberal party that is eager to slob on China's knob in the name of greed and want to set aside the rule of law in regards to Meng Wanzhou in order to further that, but I see little of concern there. China needs to learn the rules of schoolyard bullying. Whining about this kind of thing all the time just shows its weakness, not it's strength.

  4. #5004

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    I think TMFY was more commenting on the Conservative hypocrisy of calling out Obama for his Liberal endorsement as meddling while Harper sticks his nose into China's business with nary a peep.
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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post


    You may feel I have called you a bigot because I disagree with you, that's entirely your purview. Doesn't make that the case on my side, but whatever. I call 'em like I see 'em.

    ...
    so...

    you're quite happy accusing me of being someone who regards or treats the members of a group (such as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bigot)?

    and then apologizing for having such a high horse that your "inviolable beliefs when it comes to human rights" allow you to make such unilateral judgements against other clearly lesser mortals. that's rich. [insert sarcasm emoticon of your choice here]

    have a nice weekend noodle. [insert second sarcasm emoticon of your choice here]
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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    I think TMFY was more commenting on the Conservative hypocrisy of calling out Obama for his Liberal endorsement as meddling while Harper sticks his nose into China's business with nary a peep.
    china's biggest concern was harper's actually visiting taiwan at all and the possibility that might be perceived as undermining china's "one china" policy, something beijing continues to push on the world stage to the point including the successful encouragement of non-recognition of taiwan by other countries. after taiwan the trip went to beijing. the primary purpose was promoting his book although he also spoke at an economic forum and criticized certain monetary policies, some of which china practices but didn't mention china by name. he also didn't advised citizens in either mainland china or taiwan who to vote for in their next election.

    you're conflating again to suit your own opinions.
    Last edited by kcantor; 18-10-2019 at 02:16 PM.
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  7. #5007

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post

    you're quite happy accusing me of being someone who regards or treats the members of a group (such as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bigot)?
    If you think I'm happy because the recent political discussions have caused me to reevaluate the level of respect I should show to someone I held in exceedingly high regard you couldn't be more wrong.

    (And for the record, I've never thought of you as racially intolerant. See the list I have posted elsewhere about the different shades of conservatism & their respective chosen & marginalized groups.)
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  8. #5008

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    you're conflating again to suit your own opinions.
    Except I wasn't putting forth my own opinion, just attempting to clarify TMFY's ambiguous message based upon the content & tone of his posts, which are resoundingly anti-Conservative.

    That's why it starts with "I think TMFY was..."
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  9. #5009

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    I think TMFY was more commenting on the Conservative hypocrisy of calling out Obama for his Liberal endorsement as meddling while Harper sticks his nose into China's business with nary a peep.
    china's biggest concern was harper's actually visiting taiwan at all and the possibility that might be perceived as undermining china's "one china" policy, something beijing continues to push on the world stage to the point including the successful encouragement of non-recognition of taiwan by other countries. after taiwan the trip went to beijing. the primary purpose was promoting his book although he also spoke at an economic forum and criticized certain monetary policies, some of which china practices but didn't mention china by name. he also didn't advised citizens in either mainland china or taiwan who to vote for in their next election.

    you're conflating again to suit your own opinions.
    Didn't Harper also publicly support Modi in his re-election bid in India?

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    you're conflating again to suit your own opinions.
    Except I wasn't putting forth my own opinion, just attempting to clarify TMFY's ambiguous message based upon the content & tone of his posts, which are resoundingly anti-Conservative.

    That's why it starts with "I think TMFY was..."
    i'm sorry but i'm not sure how that works even with your trying to use the "i think" as a disclaimer.

    even ignoring your admitted tendency to expound and make decisions on "what you think other people mean" even if that may not be what they mean, doesn't "i think" mean that the opinion expressed has to still be yours? if not, your disclaimer would have been "while i don't agree, i think TMFY was...".
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    I think TMFY was more commenting on the Conservative hypocrisy of calling out Obama for his Liberal endorsement as meddling while Harper sticks his nose into China's business with nary a peep.
    china's biggest concern was harper's actually visiting taiwan at all and the possibility that might be perceived as undermining china's "one china" policy, something beijing continues to push on the world stage to the point including the successful encouragement of non-recognition of taiwan by other countries. after taiwan the trip went to beijing. the primary purpose was promoting his book although he also spoke at an economic forum and criticized certain monetary policies, some of which china practices but didn't mention china by name. he also didn't advised citizens in either mainland china or taiwan who to vote for in their next election.

    you're conflating again to suit your own opinions.
    Didn't Harper also publicly support Modi in his re-election bid in India?
    i don't think so...

    i believe he spoke out against canadian support for sikh separation. i'm not sure how that can be made out to be any kind of direct public call for indians to vote for modi in indian elections.

    furthermore, i don't think using whataboutism is a solution to stopping something that shouldn't take place instead of justifying it "because so and so did as well". if some so and so also did the same thing, they would also have been wrong.
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  12. #5012

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post

    i'm sorry but i'm not sure how that works even with your trying to use the "i think" as a disclaimer.
    TMFY used the portmanteau "Harpercrite" & I was attempting to explain what I believed to be the interpretation to Marcel. That's it. That's all.


    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    doesn't "i think" mean that the opinion expressed has to still be yours?
    The only opinion I was expressing was my opinion on what TMFY meant, not my opinion on Harper or his visit to China. I stand by that opinion.

    Keep on picking nits like a chimp, champ.
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    Ken, why is it a problem for a past, retired American president, or Canadian PM, or French president, to comment on another country's elections? You did not explain why that was a concern previously. Here's your previous post:

    does anyone wonder what the outrage and furor would be if the current american president came out publicy urging canadian voters to vote for donald scheer?

    the cries for public figures not to interfere with the internal affairs of a country currently in the midst of a democratic election for a new government?

    why the silence regarding the immediate past american president doing exactly that?

    ps. this is not a comment on the merits of that past president compared to the current orange buffoon. other than with foreign policy, obama was a decent and effect president of his country and the current vendetta to reverse anything and everything he was associated with simply because of the association is shameful.
    I want to address the second line above, specifically. What cries for public figures not to interfere in the internal affairs of other countries are you referring to, exactly? 99% of the "cries" over the last 3 years or so have been about foreign government interference, not public figures. There's also been concerns about "dark money" sneaking it's way across borders to buy influence, as we saw during Brexit and apparently quite recently in the US with Guillianni's Ukrainian friends. Those issues have clearly been a problem in several recent elections, from the 2016 US election to the Brexit vote.

    But who has been crying about public figures? Other than you when one endorses your nemesis.

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post

    you're quite happy accusing me of being someone who regards or treats the members of a group (such as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bigot)?
    If you think I'm happy because the recent political discussions have caused me to reevaluate the level of respect I should show to someone I held in exceedingly high regard you couldn't be more wrong.

    (And for the record, I've never thought of you as racially intolerant. See the list I have posted elsewhere about the different shades of conservatism & their respective chosen & marginalized groups.)
    i will stand by my opinions and my actions in life and i am more than happy to be responsible for them.

    and i am more than happy to change my opinions and my actions if i become convinced they are wrong. and yes, that has and does happen, even on c2e.

    but don't put me in some f'ing box and label me a bigot just because that fits some strange and needy criteria of yours to occupy some moral high ground. i don't care about some list you posted elsewhere and i'm not interested in where you want to place me on some shaded scale to enable and excuse your calling me a bigot.

    do you think it makes me feel better about being called a bigot "because doing so doesn't make you happy?"

    you have absolutely no evidence to support the claim and trying to tack on disclaimers and limitations to how and where the term applies and how you might be using it and how it should therefor be acceptable to me instead of withdrawing the accusation does not speak well of you.
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  15. #5015

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    I think TMFY was more commenting on the Conservative hypocrisy of calling out Obama for his Liberal endorsement as meddling while Harper sticks his nose into China's business with nary a peep.
    china's biggest concern was harper's actually visiting taiwan at all and the possibility that might be perceived as undermining china's "one china" policy, something beijing continues to push on the world stage to the point including the successful encouragement of non-recognition of taiwan by other countries. after taiwan the trip went to beijing. the primary purpose was promoting his book although he also spoke at an economic forum and criticized certain monetary policies, some of which china practices but didn't mention china by name. he also didn't advised citizens in either mainland china or taiwan who to vote for in their next election.

    you're conflating again to suit your own opinions.
    Didn't Harper also publicly support Modi in his re-election bid in India?
    i don't think so...

    i believe he spoke out against canadian support for sikh separation. i'm not sure how that can be made out to be any kind of direct public call for indians to vote for modi in indian elections.

    furthermore, i don't think using whataboutism is a solution to stopping something that shouldn't take place instead of justifying it "because so and so did as well". if some so and so also did the same thing, they would also have been wrong.
    https://www.theglobeandmail.com/poli...n-trudeau-was/

    It isn't that long, but here are the relevant parts from the article:

    Earlier this year, former Conservative prime minister Stephen Harper posted his support for Narendra Modi on Twitter.


    “For India to realize its potential, it needs the courageous & visionary leadership of Prime Minister Modi,” Mr. Harper wrote. “Proud to stand with him.”

    I understand that your point of view may be that you do not agree with the idea of foreign former leader endorsements. I am not trying to change your opinion on this issue, but what you refer to as whataboutism in this case, is what I would call exposing hypocrisy.

  16. #5016

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    Espousing conservatives' classist economic policies is no more defensible than spouting their racist immigration policies or sexist anti-choice policies or any of the other regressive "us vs them" policies which form the backbone of modern conservatism.
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    Seriously, Harper came out in support of Modi? I guess I shouldn't be too surprised. He's just another ethnic/religious nationalist who is going to leave his country worse off when (if?) the populace finally wises up. India has arguably ceased to be a representative democracy over the last couple years under Modi, it's absolutely terrible what he's doing in Kashmir.

    To be clear, I'm not concerned that Harper as an ex-PM endorsed a foreign candidate. I just think it's really disappointing that he chose a really, really crappy one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    you're conflating again to suit your own opinions.
    Except I wasn't putting forth my own opinion, just attempting to clarify TMFY's ambiguous message based upon the content & tone of his posts, which are resoundingly anti-Conservative.

    That's why it starts with "I think TMFY was..."

    i'm sorry but i'm not sure how that works even with your trying to use the "i think" as a disclaimer.

    even ignoring your admitted tendency to expound and make decisions on "what you think other people mean" even if that may not be what they mean, doesn't "i think" mean that the opinion expressed has to still be yours? if not, your disclaimer would have been "while i don't agree, i think TMFY was...".
    I really don't get why this seems like such an unlikely interpretation to you
    :

    There was a conversation about how Obama is inserting himself in our election is followed by a comment on how harper was inserting himself into the politics of other countries. It's either a completely unrelated comment about the geopolitics with regards to china, or a comment about how similar the two situations are. The latter is the obvious and much more obvious connection, with the term "Harpercrite" makes it obvious he thinks people are being hypocritical with what "foreign influence" they are ok with.

    Kinda seems like you're intentionally misreading it just for an excuse to jump at noodle, but that's just my opinion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Ken, why is it a problem for a past, retired American president, or Canadian PM, or French president, to comment on another country's elections? You did not explain why that was a concern previously. Here's your previous post:

    does anyone wonder what the outrage and furor would be if the current american president came out publicy urging canadian voters to vote for donald scheer?

    the cries for public figures not to interfere with the internal affairs of a country currently in the midst of a democratic election for a new government?

    why the silence regarding the immediate past american president doing exactly that?

    ps. this is not a comment on the merits of that past president compared to the current orange buffoon. other than with foreign policy, obama was a decent and effect president of his country and the current vendetta to reverse anything and everything he was associated with simply because of the association is shameful.
    I want to address the second line above, specifically. What cries for public figures not to interfere in the internal affairs of other countries are you referring to, exactly? 99% of the "cries" over the last 3 years or so have been about foreign government interference, not public figures. There's also been concerns about "dark money" sneaking it's way across borders to buy influence, as we saw during Brexit and apparently quite recently in the US with Guillianni's Ukrainian friends. Those issues have clearly been a problem in several recent elections, from the 2016 US election to the Brexit vote.

    But who has been crying about public figures? Other than you when one endorses your nemesis.
    the feeling of inappropriateness is not mine alone:

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-50074603

    "Drew Fagan, a professor of public policy at the Munk School of Global Affairs, said the endorsement was "unusual".

    "There is a tradition of non-intervention," he said. "The sensitivity in this case is because our ties are so close and yet the power imbalance is so great."Mr Fagan says he cannot think of a president or former president endorsing a Canadian candidate, although President Clinton did give a forceful speech against Quebec separatism in Ottawa in 1995.Mr Obama is very popular in Canada, and his endorsement could make a real impact on this close race, he says. "Obama himself now could become an issue in this campaign," he said.

    This is not Mr Obama's first time endorsing a foreign candidate. He endorsed Emmanuel Macron during the 2017 French election.And while he was still in office, shortly after President Donald Trump was elected, he told media in Berlin that if he were German, he would vote for Chancellor Angela Merkel.In 2015, during the Brexit campaign, Mr Obama told the BBC that he supported Remain, provoking outcry from Leave supporters."

    it's also worth noting that in my post i was much more positive on obama's success at home than in foreign affairs and this an example of that. having said that, his successor's [mis]adventures in foreign affairs will only result in every president before - and hopefully after - being perceived in a better light.

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  20. #5020

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    Quote Originally Posted by seamusmcduffs View Post
    Kinda seems like you're intentionally misreading it just for an excuse to jump at noodle, but that's just my opinion.
    I can just imagine how he'd lay into me if he saw my socks today....
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  21. #5021

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Espousing conservatives' classist economic policies is no more defensible than spouting their racist immigration policies or sexist anti-choice policies or any of the other regressive "us vs them" policies which form the backbone of modern conservatism.
    It has become a bit of a bait and switch. During elections they talk more about restricting immigration and things like that which gets them some votes and don't say as much about (or downplay) their less popular ideas like cutting taxes for millionaires and services for everyone else. However, when they get into power the latter is what they focus on.

    Unfortunately, this time Bernier has sort of upset the Conservative apple cart particularly on the issue of immigration and refugees. I suspect Scheer and the Conservatives were hoping to make it more of an issue, but Bernier beat them to it and made it hard for them to outdo him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by seamusmcduffs View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    you're conflating again to suit your own opinions.
    Except I wasn't putting forth my own opinion, just attempting to clarify TMFY's ambiguous message based upon the content & tone of his posts, which are resoundingly anti-Conservative.

    That's why it starts with "I think TMFY was..."

    i'm sorry but i'm not sure how that works even with your trying to use the "i think" as a disclaimer.

    even ignoring your admitted tendency to expound and make decisions on "what you think other people mean" even if that may not be what they mean, doesn't "i think" mean that the opinion expressed has to still be yours? if not, your disclaimer would have been "while i don't agree, i think TMFY was...".
    I really don't get why this seems like such an unlikely interpretation to you
    :

    There was a conversation about how Obama is inserting himself in our election is followed by a comment on how harper was inserting himself into the politics of other countries. It's either a completely unrelated comment about the geopolitics with regards to china, or a comment about how similar the two situations are. The latter is the obvious and much more obvious connection, with the term "Harpercrite" makes it obvious he thinks people are being hypocritical with what "foreign influence" they are ok with.

    Kinda seems like you're intentionally misreading it just for an excuse to jump at noodle, but that's just my opinion.
    to the extent that may be taking place i apologize to the board.

    it's just that i'm not used to being accused of being a bigot very often so i'll acknowledge that might well be colouring my responses to the conversation in which that accusation is still freshly out there and raw.
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  23. #5023

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    FWIW, President Obama's endorsement was unusual in the historical context of US-Canada relations, although I am not sure how much it will help PM Trudeau.

    I think the biggest challenge for the Liberals is the vote splitting. While most forecast a minority government is the most likely outcome, it might in fact cause an upset.

    This is only a special case, and might be one-off, but my riding (Edmonton - Strathcona) is a case in point. With Linda Duncon not seeking re-election, the fight between Liberals, NDP and CPC might yield a CPC candidate due to vote-splitting. Rachel Notley has not endorsed the federal NDP candidate. The Green candidate withdrew to avoid draining NDP votes. Here is Globe & Mail: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/cana...despite-citys/

  24. #5024

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Seriously, Harper came out in support of Modi? I guess I shouldn't be too surprised. He's just another ethnic/religious nationalist who is going to leave his country worse off when (if?) the populace finally wises up. India has arguably ceased to be a representative democracy over the last couple years under Modi, it's absolutely terrible what he's doing in Kashmir.

    To be clear, I'm not concerned that Harper as an ex-PM endorsed a foreign candidate. I just think it's really disappointing that he chose a really, really crappy one.

    One? How about Viktor Orban?

    Stephen Harper criticized for congratulating Hungary's Orban following anti-immigrant campaign

    Harper made the comments in his role as chairman of the International Democrat Union, an alliance of more than 80 centre-right parties from around the world which includes the Conservative Party of Canada.


    Observers from the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe have expressed concerns about the Hungarian election campaign, saying that political debate was stifled by "intimidating and xenophobic rhetoric, media bias and opaque campaign financing."

    Throughout the campaign, Orban railed against the United Nations, the European Union, Hungarian-American billionaire George Soros and the civic groups he funds, accusing them of plotting to turn Hungary into an "immigrant country" and erase its Christian identity.


    "I don't think [Harper] has much of an idea of what's going on in Hungary," said Robert Austin, an associate professor at the Munk School of Global Affairs and an expert on the politics and history of Central Europe.

    "That was true when he was in power. Canada was always noticeably silent about some of the issues that other states had raised about shortcomings in Hungarian democracy."

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/har...rban-1.4613152




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    Rachel Curran, Harper's former policy director and now a senior associate at Harper and Associates, said Harper's tweet should not be seen as making any sort of comment on Orban or his policies.
    "He's not offering his views or opinions on Mr. Orban's government or his party," she said. "He is in his capacity as chair of the IDU congratulating him on his political success, which in its instance has included a massive democratic mandate from Hungarians."
    Congratulatory messages are sent out regularly to IDU member parties that win election, Curran said, adding that the practice started long before Harper's appointment as the alliance's chair.
    This was in 2018?and once again Ex PM Harper, not running..

    Comment : Observers from the Organization for Security and Co-operation complain about "Media Bias"
    Give me a break. In the west its just called "News"
    Congrats to Hungary. It's what the people want!!!


    Last edited by H.L.; 18-10-2019 at 11:48 PM.
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  26. #5026

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    Yeah, the Alt-right just love to congratulate other alt-rights while claiming that they know nothing about their more odious practices and policies.

    How very Sgt. Schultz of Harper/


  27. #5027

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    I don't see a problem with a famous person endorsing one candidate or another. It is a free country and people have the right to free speech.

    It is a double edged sword and can backfire so that is one reason that it does not happen very often.


    I worry more about subversive and secret interference in elections, both domestic and foreign. I believe that all contributors by private individuals should be capped at $1,000 and no contributions in financial or any in kind amounts should come from those not able to vote including corporations, unions, groups, organizations or any foreign individual or entity.
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    https://edmontonjournal.com/category/opinion/editorials

    "best choice for canada is scheer"

    it looks like i'm not the only one who feels that scheer, on balance, is a better less than perfect leader than our current prime minister.
    Last edited by kcantor; 19-10-2019 at 11:25 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    https://edmontonjournal.com/category/opinion/editorials

    "best choice for canada is scheer"

    it looks like i'm not the only one who feels that scheer, on balance, is a better less than perfect leader than our current prime minister.
    Did you expect something different from a "Right Wing Conservative" newspaper. I'm sure that the Journal's bosses at the National Post told them what to write

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    Quote Originally Posted by ridgeman View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    https://edmontonjournal.com/category/opinion/editorials

    "best choice for canada is scheer"

    it looks like i'm not the only one who feels that scheer, on balance, is a better less than perfect leader than our current prime minister.
    Did you expect something different from a "Right Wing Conservative" newspaper. I'm sure that the Journal's bosses at the National Post told them what to write
    Its no different really, than CBC always jumping up to protect JT, Rosemary Barton and the so called panel make me LOL, it is what it is. I will be bloody glad, when this poor choice election is over.

    Now I have a birthday to celebrate and Netflix and chill, tonight, you guys be nice..LOL
    Animals are my passion.

  31. #5031

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    https://edmontonjournal.com/category/opinion/editorials

    "best choice for canada is scheer"

    it looks like i'm not the only one who feels that scheer, on balance, is a better less than perfect leader than our current prime minister.

    Perfect Leader, my eye...
    There is no perfect leader unless you are talking about Jesus Christ and he never held office once.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  32. #5032

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    https://edmontonjournal.com/category/opinion/editorials

    "best choice for canada is scheer"

    it looks like i'm not the only one who feels that scheer, on balance, is a better less than perfect leader than our current prime minister.

    Perfect Leader, my eye...
    There is no perfect leader unless you are talking about Jesus Christ and he never held office once.
    I wouldn't say he was perfect. Remember when he lost his shyte in that temple and trashed the place?

  33. #5033

    Default

    So, he was speaker for five years. Is he lying or simply doesn't know what he's talking about?

    ‘Complete nonsense’: Experts dispute Scheer’s claims about forming government

    Experts on Canada’s parliamentary system say Andrew Scheer should know better than to erroneously contend that whoever wins the most seats on Monday gets to form the government.


    The Conservative leader was, after all, Speaker of the House of Commons for almost five years and, as such, should be well aware that the only rule that matters is who can command the confidence of the majority of MPs — whether they be all from one party, or from a multitude of partisan affiliations.


    “It lowers him in my esteem and maybe the esteem of other people because I’m sure he knows he’s wrong,” said political science professor Peter Russell, who helped advise Gov. Gen. Michaelle Jean in 2008, when she had to navigate an attempt by three opposition parties to form a coalition to replace Stephen Harper‘s minority Conservative government.


    “He’s doing damage because there’s so many Canadians who will believe what he says to be true.”

    Scheer has maintained throughout the week, and repeated Thursday, that “modern convention in Canadian politics” dictates that “a prime minister who enters into an election and comes out of that election with fewer seats than another party resigns.”


    Max Cameron, director of the Centre for the Study of Democratic Institutions at the University of British Columbia, called Scheer’s assertion “nonsense, complete nonsense.”

    https://globalnews.ca/news/6054421/e...ng-government/

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    ^

    i'm pretty sure he's just repeating what trudeau said harper would have to do if he failed to maintain a majority in the last election...
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  35. #5035

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    Well, there was an interview with Peter Mansbridge in which Trudeau first said that the party that had the most seats would get first try at trying to form government, then he agreed when Mansbridge corrected him.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzL38AVowKk

  36. #5036

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    And Trudeau wasn't speaker of the house who would be expected to be fully up to date on these things. And Trudeau isn't repeating the same mistake he made and accepted the correction of.
    Last edited by kkozoriz; 20-10-2019 at 12:40 AM.

  37. #5037
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoneman View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    https://edmontonjournal.com/category/opinion/editorials

    "best choice for canada is scheer"

    it looks like i'm not the only one who feels that scheer, on balance, is a better less than perfect leader than our current prime minister.

    Perfect Leader, my eye...
    There is no perfect leader unless you are talking about Jesus Christ and he never held office once.
    I wouldn't say he was perfect. Remember when he lost his shyte in that temple and trashed the place?
    Kind of like when JT lost his in the HOC the mask slipped
    Animals are my passion.

  38. #5038

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cumberland View Post
    Well, there was an interview with Peter Mansbridge in which Trudeau first said that the party that had the most seats would get first try at trying to form government, then he agreed when Mansbridge corrected him.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzL38AVowKk
    Mr. Mansbridge, I know you're retired now, but maybe give Andrew a call and explain how it actually works. Maybe he'll listen to you.

  39. #5039
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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    And Trudeau wasn't speaker of the house who would be expected to be fully up to date on these things. And Trudeau isn't repeating the same mistake he made and accepted the correction of.
    i think that's something the lieutenant governor would be expected to know, not the speaker of the house...
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  40. #5040
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    We have three parties all wanting to shut down Alberta's economy, so how are they going to pay for their billions promised on social programs? If nothing else, this will prove to me, the left and alt left have no idea how to run a country, ruin, yes, run, not so much.
    Animals are my passion.

  41. #5041

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    And Trudeau wasn't speaker of the house who would be expected to be fully up to date on these things. And Trudeau isn't repeating the same mistake he made and accepted the correction of.
    i think that's something the lieutenant governor would be expected to know, not the speaker of the house...
    It's something they both would be aware of. Of course, the GG at the time was Michaëlle Jean, who Scheer questioned her dual citizenship. He was able to do so because Jean was open about having Canadian and French citizenship, something Scheer was not "Nobody asked". Nobody asked him if he'd ever murdered anyone either but I'd expect him to be forthcoming about it if he had.

  42. #5042

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snail View Post
    FWIW, President Obama's endorsement was unusual in the historical context of US-Canada relations, although I am not sure how much it will help PM Trudeau.

    I think the biggest challenge for the Liberals is the vote splitting. While most forecast a minority government is the most likely outcome, it might in fact cause an upset.

    This is only a special case, and might be one-off, but my riding (Edmonton - Strathcona) is a case in point. With Linda Duncon not seeking re-election, the fight between Liberals, NDP and CPC might yield a CPC candidate due to vote-splitting. Rachel Notley has not endorsed the federal NDP candidate. The Green candidate withdrew to avoid draining NDP votes. Here is Globe & Mail: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/cana...despite-citys/

    338 puts Edmonton-Strathcona A’s toss up to NDP. All other seats likely or safe CPC:

    http://338canada.com/districts/edmonton.htm

  43. #5043
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    Personally I don't care about Harper or Obama, neither are in power. I do care about Trudeau and Scheer, and I know Canada can't take another 4 years of Trudeau.

  44. #5044

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    Why can’t Canada take another 4 years of Trudeau?

    Much of the country has done quite well under him. Good economic and jobs numbers. No huge conflicts. Issues imposed on Canada like free trade deal have been dealt with. Albertans have been somewhat screwed but some of that blame falls on us and our ramping up production, our population, and maintaining reliance on global oil pricing. Trudeau’s tanker ban and his inaction combined with court issues over pipeline approvals have caused some damage. We also need a pipeline to the east and I’m not sure who should be blamed for that failure. Nonetheless we have rail so we’re taking differentials.

  45. #5045

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    Because if Trudeau gets back in, a large number of Albertans will throw a tantrum, say that nobody likes them and start talking about moving out on their own.

  46. #5046

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    Yeah... separation works so well when you are landlocked on all four sides.

    It is like a 28 year old wanting independence while living in his parents basement.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    And Trudeau wasn't speaker of the house who would be expected to be fully up to date on these things. And Trudeau isn't repeating the same mistake he made and accepted the correction of.
    i think that's something the lieutenant governor would be expected to know, not the speaker of the house...
    There's a lieutenant governor in Ottawa?


  48. #5048

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    https://edmontonjournal.com/category/opinion/editorials

    "best choice for canada is scheer"

    it looks like i'm not the only one who feels that scheer, on balance, is a better less than perfect leader than our current prime minister.


    https://www.canadalandshow.com/the-c...-of-postmedia/

    Postmedia would endorse a pile of rocks if it had the right colour campaign sign.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  49. #5049

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    ^ it just did.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    And Trudeau wasn't speaker of the house who would be expected to be fully up to date on these things. And Trudeau isn't repeating the same mistake he made and accepted the correction of.
    i think that's something the lieutenant governor would be expected to know, not the speaker of the house...
    There's a lieutenant governor in Ottawa?

    brain cramp... i meant governor general.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  51. #5051

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    Missed the promotion from Lieutenant to General...
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Missed the promotion from Lieutenant to General...
    not the first time i've missed something or been wrong.

    nor the most egregious...
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

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    Quote Originally Posted by sundance View Post
    Personally I don't care about Harper or Obama, neither are in power. I do care about Trudeau and Scheer, and I know Canada can't take another 4 years of Trudeau.
    If he doesn't get a majority, and Singh supports him for awhile, big money! If he gets a majority, also big money,because he likes to splash the cash, to make himself look good, forgetting it's not his to splash.
    Animals are my passion.

  54. #5054
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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    https://edmontonjournal.com/category/opinion/editorials

    "best choice for canada is scheer"

    it looks like i'm not the only one who feels that scheer, on balance, is a better less than perfect leader than our current prime minister.


    https://www.canadalandshow.com/the-c...-of-postmedia/

    Postmedia would endorse a pile of rocks if it had the right colour campaign sign.
    I occassionally read the Saskatoon Star Phoenix and the Regina Leader post and guess what the the identical editorial was posted in those papers. What a joke our newspapers have become when the are told what to print by a Toronto based conservation conglomerate.

  55. #5055
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    What a joke our newspapers have become
    And yet JT is giving them how much?? $$$$$$ . We're paying for a subscription , and our tax dollars are going toward this..
    Animals are my passion.

  56. #5056

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    All indications suggest that votes are split so much that we're probably getting a minority of some type.

    Get ready to go through all this nonsense all over again 18 months from now

  57. #5057
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    All indications suggest that votes are split so much that we're probably getting a minority of some type.

    Get ready to go through all this nonsense all over again 18 months from now
    I know, ugh!
    Animals are my passion.

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    Good chance for parties to get serious about their leadership.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SP59 View Post
    Good chance for parties to get serious about their leadership.
    No kidding. Replace the captains of the blue and red team and might see something more interesting.

  60. #5060

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    Quote Originally Posted by SP59 View Post
    Good chance for parties to get serious about their leadership.
    This could be the best thing that comes out of this election. That quite clearly popularity and support for both Lib and Con leaders has declined as the election has gone on. With NDP and Bloc picking up most of that.

    The Cons and Libs should both rethink their leadership. Theres been more than enough reason to do it.

    meh

    I already strategically voted this AM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  61. #5061

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    Quote Originally Posted by ridgeman View Post
    I occassionally read the Saskatoon Star Phoenix and the Regina Leader post and guess what the the identical editorial was posted in those papers. What a joke our newspapers have become when the are told what to print by a Toronto based conservation conglomerate.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  62. #5062

    Default

    Are you insinuating that the MEDIA has a RIGHT WING BIAS????


    I thought that all of the mainstream media are part of the Liberal Deep State.

    Don't let MrOilers or H.L. know the TRUTH!
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    ^^

    i think there are two things being commented on here... one is the endorsement of the national editorial board of the national post which includes it's subsidiary newspapers.

    the second is whether subsidiary newspapers should be allowed the freedom of their own editorial boards to make endorsements based on their unique/local perspective on national affairs.

    being in favour of having the second doesn't invalidate the endorsement of the first. it is however, likely to provide something more in tune with the "endorsements" of the washington post:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...gh/#mccullough

    one for trudeau based on his "international reputation", one for singh, one for singh in support of a liberal minority government and two for scheer.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  64. #5064
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    I feel very sorry for the people that voted green in strathcona advance poll. The candidate pulls out, and there goes your vote, with him, that would really p!ss me off..
    Animals are my passion.

  65. #5065

    Default

    It’s not like the editorial board of a newspaper founded to push the national Overton window to the right would have endorsed anyone else.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  66. #5066

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    All indications suggest that votes are split so much that we're probably getting a minority of some type.

    Get ready to go through all this nonsense all over again 18 months from now
    “Change is good.”

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    Where did you get that Post media image noodle? Would like to share it

  68. #5068

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    Newspaper endorsements in the 2015 Canadian federal election - Wikipedia

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newspa...deral_election


    Newspaper endorsements in the 2019 Canadian federal election - Wikipedia

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newspa...deral_election

  69. #5069

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    Quote Originally Posted by seamusmcduffs View Post
    Where did you get that Post media image noodle? Would like to share it
    Reddit
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  70. #5070

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    All indications suggest that votes are split so much that we're probably getting a minority of some type.

    Get ready to go through all this nonsense all over again 18 months from now
    “Change is good.”
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  71. #5071

    Default

    Background

    You Must Be This Conservative To Ride: The Inside Story of Postmedia’s Right

    In 2015, after the federal election that brought Justin Trudeau’s Liberals to power, Andrew Potter, then editor-in-chief of the Ottawa Citizen, was called to the company’s head offices in Toronto.


    There, Lou Clancy — then Postmedia’s senior vice president of content — told Potter that his paper was too “anti-conservative,” according to three sources. When Potter asked for specific examples of coverage that could be improved upon, Clancy could only cite a single editorial cartoon.


    Nor was it out of the ordinary for management to use its papers to make election endorsements without the input of editors.


    During the 2015 federal election, for example, the Citizen was ordered by Postmedia bosses to endorse the Conservative Party of Canada. This despite its reporting in the years before having led to three Conservatives being put on trial; two of them ultimately went to jail. Still, the paper argued, the party remained the best choice for Canadians. (A month after the election, the members of the Citizen’s editorial board resigned).


    In the 2015 Alberta election, the Edmonton Journal — another of the chain’s metropolitan daily broadsheets — was ordered to endorse Alberta’s Progressive Conservatives, after the paper had unearthed a run of embarrassing stories for the ruling party, and in a campaign where it was universally held that the PCs had underperformed.


    At Postmedia, this was all par for the course.


    But October 2018 was different. October 2018 was the start of something unprecedented.


    Several editors at the National Post — Postmedia’s flagship newspaper with an explicitly conservative political mandate, where I reported on media from 2016 to 2017 — were summoned to a meeting on the 12th floor of the company’s headquarters.


    There, according to three sources familiar with the meeting, company president Andrew MacLeod told them that their paper — which launched in 1998 to serve as the voice of thoughtful, modern Canadian conservatism, and which many would argue remains so — was insufficiently conservative.

    https://www.canadalandshow.com/the-c...-of-postmedia/

  72. #5072
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    Libby minority, with ndp propping them up
    AB is in trouble
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    Sohi is out!!!! love that..

    Liberal minority, but low popular vote, wow..very low
    Animals are my passion.

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    These thoughts were posted after the last municipal election but not for the first time although I have taken the liberty of updating them.

    In the current political climate, it might be good for all of us to contemplate on the same fact after today's federal election. Even for those who voted for winning candidates or winning parties (not necessarily the same), it is all of the other candidates who were defeated who make the system work.

    Maybe if we all remembered that, there would be more respect and less tribalism out there around who was elected and who wasn't. Congratulations to all those who were elected or re-elected in Edmonton, in Alberta and in the rest of the country. May you remember that you are responsible for governing on behalf of all of your constituents and for all regions of the country regardless of who did or didn't vote for you and regardless of which side of the house you will be seated in.

    And thank you to all those who ran for office who were unsuccessful in your efforts - our entire system depends on people running who are not successful and it would collapse without you.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  75. #5075

    Default

    I'll put my own thank you to those who ran, and congrats to those who won. Not the result I was hoping for, but definitely a realistic result according to all the polls, and this is democracy and the will of the people. Hopefully Mr. Dressup can control his silly impulses a bit better with age, and get that pipeline through. Good luck though, as I doubt the NDP will ever let him do that and stay in power. Would have to believe that Andrew Scheer is done as leader sooner than later, and hopefully the Cons can come up with someone who can grab the countries imagination. I believe he is a good citizen, wanting to do what is right for the country, but not a leader in the context of what people expect leaders to be these days. If Trudeau does get out of step and does not heed the whims of the NDP, it is highly possible we could be revisiting this scenario in a short time once again.

  76. #5076
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    Why I said Canada can't take 4 more years of Justin. He has created or magnified regional divides more than any PM before him. He wants Quebec to have billions but not even let Alberta make it for them.
    As for Alberta being landlocked if it separates, this also affects BC shipping as they can't get goods out of BC. It affects trucks travelling from the east to BC too. It affects air traffic as countries control the airspace.
    It also means the province of Quebec has a major economic slump as the majority of transfer payments stop. This will affect the value of the Canadian dollar negativity as those billions aren't flowing to Ottawa either.
    As for Alberta we have about a $6 billion deficit, that vanishes if you're not paying equalization.
    Any treaties or trade deals will be easy to negotiate as in truth Alberta has the stronger hand.

  77. #5077

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    If only Canada didn't stop at the 60th parallel. Oh, wait.....

    We'd need a new road/rail line through the territories but Canada would still be connected. Alberta would, however, still be landlocked.

  78. #5078

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    If only Canada didn't stop at the 60th parallel. Oh, wait.....

    We'd need a new road/rail line through the territories but Canada would still be connected. Alberta would, however, still be landlocked.
    As a foreign nation we could fund environmentalists and others trying to stop the building of the highly destructive road and rail lines through sensitive, precious, spiritual, old-growth northern lands. Construction would be delayed for decades!

    As we flounder we’d soon see the wisdom of joining the US as Texas North. We’d then have all the advantages of market access and easy capital. It would start with recycled MAGA caps - Make Alberta Glorious Again
    Last edited by KC; 23-10-2019 at 05:10 AM.

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    Building road and rail in the Canadian Shield is expensive and generally has poor results. You have muskeg, permafrost in some areas, plus longer winters.
    There are reasons why even in Alberta there aren't many roads north.

  80. #5080

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    Maybe they’ll build a gondola. A solar and wind powered gondola!

  81. #5081

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    Quote Originally Posted by sundance View Post
    Why I said Canada can't take 4 more years of Justin. He has created or magnified regional divides more than any PM before him. He wants Quebec to have billions but not even let Alberta make it for them.
    As for Alberta being landlocked if it separates, this also affects BC shipping as they can't get goods out of BC. It affects trucks travelling from the east to BC too. It affects air traffic as countries control the airspace.
    It also means the province of Quebec has a major economic slump as the majority of transfer payments stop. This will affect the value of the Canadian dollar negativity as those billions aren't flowing to Ottawa either.
    As for Alberta we have about a $6 billion deficit, that vanishes if you're not paying equalization.
    Any treaties or trade deals will be easy to negotiate as in truth Alberta has the stronger hand.
    If you want to blame anyone about equalization you have to go way back before Trudeau was born when the policy was put into place in 1957.

    Under the Conservative leadership of Stephen Harper and Cabinet Minister Jason Kenney (the evil guy in hated Ottawa, not the 'our hero's guy in Alberta), the equalization formula was changed.

    If you are going to blame someone, blame the right people.

    BTW, Alberta was pretty happy to have 2 terms with Stephen Harper even when the economy tanked under his regime and now when the shoe is on the other foot, Albertans whine and cry like the sky is falling when it is only snowflakes who don't accept a fair and democratic election in a diverse country.

    Sundance, did you vote this week?
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  82. #5082

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    Maybe Kenney now has a - split - personality

    “and now when the shoe is on the other foot, Albertans whine and cry like the sky is falling”

    Interesting that you lump ALL Albertans together. Plus it sure sounds like something that someone living in a beneficiary province would say, when they receive the benefits while being insulated from the costs.

    Aren’t you now living in a province where the majority just voted in separatist leaning MPs?



    Anyway.... the equalization concept is nice but severely flawed in its execution. Top down thinking often does that as it ultimately failed to provide critical flexibility in the formula’s design. (Despite all the evidence from the previous commodity cycles it still lacked contextual understanding and allowances.)
    Last edited by KC; 23-10-2019 at 08:17 AM.

  83. #5083

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    Interesting how YOU LUMP ALL Quebecers together. You hypocrite.

    KC wrote "Aren’t you now living in a province where the majority just voted in separatist leaning MPs?"

    Yes, especially in Alberta, where separation has been promoted for decades

    I lived in Alberta Joe Clark, from High River was PM

    I lived in Alberta in 1980, when the National Energy Program (NEP) caused a bust in the economy
    I lived in Alberta when Western Canada Concept Party promoted western separation
    I lived in Alberta when Ralph Klein complained about "Eastern creeps and bums"
    I lived in Alberta when a movement called the Alberta First Party promoted Alberta separation
    I lived in Alberta when the West-Fed and Confederation of Regions Party was active
    I lived in Alberta when Preston Manning led the Reform Party of Canada and merged with the Canadian Alliance.
    I lived in Alberta when Alberta opposed the Kyoto Protocol and the Alberta Independence Party in the 2001 election, got 7,500 votes for 15 ridings.
    I lived in Alberta in 2004 when the Separation Party of Alberta nominated 12 candidates who won 4,680 votes, 0.5% of the provincial total.
    I lived in Alberta when Stephen Harper came out of the Reform Party, became leader of the Canadian Alliance in 2002, then merged with the PC Party in 2003, forming the Conservative Party of Canada and in 10 years in office, failed to build one pipeline

    Before throwing stones, realize that Alberta has strong separation culture as well
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  84. #5084

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    But you abandoned Alberta in the end.

    Note that I said “majority” and didn’t label everyone alike.

  85. #5085

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    Before Alberta separates it needs to consider how it will function in a world where demand for oil is declining. There is a real chance this will occur within 30 years and thus Alberta's ability to raise revenue will be extremely limited. At such time it would be good for Alberta to belong to some kind of confederation which provides a means to balance fiscal disparities among its regions.

    Global oil demand will peak in three years, plateau until around 2030 and then decline sharply, energy adviser DNV GL said in one of the most aggressive forecasts yet for peak oil.

    Most oil companies expect demand to peak between the late 2020s and the 2040s. The International Energy Agency (IEA), which advises Western economies on energy policy, does not expect a peak before 2040, with rising petrochemicals and aviation demand more than offsetting declining oil demand for road transportation.

    ...
    Source: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-o...-idUSKCN1VV2UQ

  86. #5086
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    ^Oh good grief. Who the heck is DNV GL and what track record do they have in accurately forecasting global oil demand? It is delusional to think these "energy advisers" are more qualified to make these forecasts than the International Energy Agency.

    By the way, here a link to the International Energy Agency's most recent forecast for world energy consumption by source:

    https://www.iea.org/weo/

  87. #5087

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    From East McCauley's link... Seems pretty in line with OffWhyte's statement...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Interesting how YOU LUMP ALL Quebecers together. You hypocrite.

    KC wrote "Aren’t you now living in a province where the majority just voted in separatist leaning MPs?"

    Yes, especially in Alberta, where separation has been promoted for decades

    I lived in Alberta Joe Clark, from High River was PM

    I lived in Alberta in 1980, when the National Energy Program (NEP) caused a bust in the economy
    I lived in Alberta when Western Canada Concept Party promoted western separation
    I lived in Alberta when Ralph Klein complained about "Eastern creeps and bums"
    I lived in Alberta when a movement called the Alberta First Party promoted Alberta separation
    I lived in Alberta when the West-Fed and Confederation of Regions Party was active
    I lived in Alberta when Preston Manning led the Reform Party of Canada and merged with the Canadian Alliance.
    I lived in Alberta when Alberta opposed the Kyoto Protocol and the Alberta Independence Party in the 2001 election, got 7,500 votes for 15 ridings.
    I lived in Alberta in 2004 when the Separation Party of Alberta nominated 12 candidates who won 4,680 votes, 0.5% of the provincial total.
    I lived in Alberta when Stephen Harper came out of the Reform Party, became leader of the Canadian Alliance in 2002, then merged with the PC Party in 2003, forming the Conservative Party of Canada and in 10 years in office, failed to build one pipeline

    Before throwing stones, realize that Alberta has strong separation culture as well
    emphasis added...

    i'm pretty sure that's an incorrect statement.

    while not a "major pipeline", kinder morgan's anchor loop was completed in 2008. while only 160 km long, it was built in two provinces and increased the overall pipeline flow by 15%.

    transcanada's keystone (not keystone xl) from alberta to texas was completed in 2017 (alberta to texas).

    enbridge's alberta clipper was completed in 2010 (alberta to wisconsin).

    enbridge's line 9 reversal was completed in 2015. while technically not a "new" pipeline, the reversal added capacity and the potential of shipping alberta heavy crude through to montreal.

    please note the above only reference pipelines built (which was your criteria), not pipelines approved which is a different discussion for obvious reasons.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

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    ^^Except that the 'New Policies Scenario' is much more in line with the real world that the 'Sustainable Development Scenario' pipe dream. Under the latter scenario, peak oil demand was supposed to happen in 2017.

    We are now in late 2019, and world oil demand continues to increase at an annual average of over one million barrels per day. Details here: https://www.eia.gov/outlooks/steo/data.php?type=figures

  90. #5090

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    So basically the planet's screwed, nobody is gonna do anything about it so let's try and profit as much as we can until everything goes tits up?

    How quintessentially Oilbertan of you.
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  91. #5091

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    Good point kcantor and I won't argue against them.

    I should have been clearer that no pipelines to eastern Canada were approved to stem the flow of imported oil in the east during the 10 years of the Harper government.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  92. #5092
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    ^^What ridiculous hyperbole.

    The New Policies Scenario takes into account existing commitments of national governments that signed on to the Paris climate agreement. This includes Canada's current commitment of reducing GHG emissions by 30% below 2005 levels by 2030. Canada's actual reductions between 2005 and 2017 were only two percent and we have 28 per cent to go to meet the 2030 target. That's where I think the policy focus should be, not some unrealistic target in the fevered imagination of Elizabeth May and her ilk.

  93. #5093

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    TIL the UN is "Elizabeth May and her ilk" & I'm the one spouting hyperbole?

    Based on existing and announced policies – as described in the IEA New Policies Scenario – the world is not on course to achieve the outcomes of the UN SDGs most closely related to energy: to achieve universal access to energy (SDG 7), to reduce the severe health impacts of air pollution (part of SDG 3) and to tackle climate change (SDG 13). The SDS sets out an ambitious but pragmatic vision of how the global energy sector can evolve in order to achieve these critical energy-related SDGs.
    The SDS is fully aligned with the Paris Agreement’s goal of “holding the increase in the global average temperature to well below 2 °C above pre-industrial levels and pursuing efforts to limit the temperature increase to 1.5 °C”.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Good point kcantor and I won't argue against them.

    I should have been clearer that no pipelines to eastern Canada were approved to stem the flow of imported oil in the east during the 10 years of the Harper government.
    good point? that is the point isn't it?

    the line 9 reversal to montreal would probably be considered "a pipeline to eastern canada...to stem the flow of imported oil" from alberta's perspective. i'm not sure why it isn't from your perspective.

    line 9's capacity is 300,000 barrels per day which is 2/3 of the alberta clipper capacity, the same capacity as transmountain currently ships, and more than a third of keystone's current total capacity. it's clearly not insignificant.

    of course, line 9 feed's montreal refineries in quebec, not refineries east of quebec so clearly it's a less controversial and more acceptable pipeline in quebec than a pipeline that would go through quebec to refineries on the eastern seaboard.

    i'm sure there is some consistency and logic in quebec's position somewhere as long as we're prepared to accept that whatever quebec wants to serve her best interests alone is sufficient consistency and logic for quebec.
    Last edited by kcantor; 23-10-2019 at 12:17 PM.
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    Your comment in #5090 was and still is ridiculous hyperbole.

    Regarding the practicality of the Sustainable Development Scenario, here is a link to the Climate Action Tracker which shows that with currently agreed upon commitments, none of the major emitting countries including Canada are anywhere near meeting the Paris Climate Agreement goal: https://climateactiontracker.org/countries/

    Canada needs an aggressive set of policies that helps us achieve the current commitment of a 30% GHG reduction below 2005 levels by 2030, a commitment we are currently not on track to meet. Ms. May's position that - among other things - Canada could ban fracking immediately and phase-out the oil sands by 2035 is not only useless virtue signalling, but also counter-productive to meeting the 30% reduction commitment because of the massive economic damage it would cause.

  96. #5096

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    5085: Offwhyte talks about peak oil & Alberta
    5086: You criticize his source & provide one of your own.
    5087: I post, without qualification, information from your source that matches OffWhyte's post in 5085.
    5089: You start criticizing one of the models used by the very source you provided & advocate solely for the model that reflects the status quo & prioritizing economic interests over environmental.
    5090: I call you out for supporting the status quo & prioritizing economic interests over the environment.
    5092: You call my characterization of your stance hyperbole & bring up 'Ms May & her ilk' as some sort of boogeyman.
    5093: I correct your choice of boogeymen
    5095: Still super cranky about me calling you someone willing to put profit over planet, despite saying so in your own words.
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  97. #5097

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    Quote Originally Posted by East McCauley View Post
    Canada needs an aggressive set of policies that helps us achieve the current commitment of a 30% GHG reduction below 2005 levels by 2030, a commitment we are currently not on track to meet.
    Would Canada meet those targets if Alberta separated?

    If so, there's the solution.

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    Quote Originally Posted by East McCauley View Post
    Your comment in #5090 was and still is ridiculous hyperbole.

    ...
    emphasis added...

    ridiculous hyperbole on an anonymous internet forum? say it isn't so.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  99. #5099

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Interesting how YOU LUMP ALL Quebecers together. You hypocrite.

    KC wrote "Aren’t you now living in a province where the majority just voted in separatist leaning MPs?"

    Yes, especially in Alberta, where separation has been promoted for decades

    I lived in Alberta Joe Clark, from High River was PM

    I lived in Alberta in 1980, when the National Energy Program (NEP) caused a bust in the economy
    I lived in Alberta when Western Canada Concept Party promoted western separation
    I lived in Alberta when Ralph Klein complained about "Eastern creeps and bums"
    I lived in Alberta when a movement called the Alberta First Party promoted Alberta separation
    I lived in Alberta when the West-Fed and Confederation of Regions Party was active
    I lived in Alberta when Preston Manning led the Reform Party of Canada and merged with the Canadian Alliance.
    I lived in Alberta when Alberta opposed the Kyoto Protocol and the Alberta Independence Party in the 2001 election, got 7,500 votes for 15 ridings.
    I lived in Alberta in 2004 when the Separation Party of Alberta nominated 12 candidates who won 4,680 votes, 0.5% of the provincial total.
    I lived in Alberta when Stephen Harper came out of the Reform Party, became leader of the Canadian Alliance in 2002, then merged with the PC Party in 2003, forming the Conservative Party of Canada and in 10 years in office, failed to build one pipeline

    Before throwing stones, realize that Alberta has strong separation culture as well
    Guess you forgot Trudeau Sr., giving Alberta the finger as his train passed through in the 80's.

  100. #5100

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    Quote Originally Posted by East McCauley View Post
    ^^What ridiculous hyperbole.

    The New Policies Scenario takes into account existing commitments of national governments that signed on to the Paris climate agreement. This includes Canada's current commitment of reducing GHG emissions by 30% below 2005 levels by 2030. Canada's actual reductions between 2005 and 2017 were only two percent and we have 28 per cent to go to meet the 2030 target. That's where I think the policy focus should be, not some unrealistic target in the fevered imagination of Elizabeth May and her ilk.
    Not unrealistic. Needs to be done NOW. Listen to the science.

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