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Thread: Predicting the End of the Oil Downturn, 2015-?

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    Default Predicting the End of the Oil Downturn, 2015-?

    E-towners:

    Are any of you formally trained in economics? Do you have a prediction for when oil will rise above $75 USD a barrel again?


    I myself am no economist, and all the economics grads I know are flummoxed over this question. I'm interested in hearing from people who understand oil and big energy.

    I know that there is very big speculation around how the Russian airbus downing over Egypt could trigger a massive upheaval in the middle east. If that really was an ISIS-driven bomb attack, it will pull Putin and the Russian war machine into the region again for 'a second Afghanistan'. That terrible possibility could be good for Canadian oil, as middle-eastern oil will become perceived as risky and threatened.
    Imagine: a world free of hypothetical situations!

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    Excellent! I think we need Political Scientists to forecast too. When will the Saudis feel that they can cut back and bring the oil market back to it's old regulated self. Introducing free enterprise sucks when you're having fun.

    My WAG is 2 years. I'll revise it repeatedly in the interim so no one can hold me to anything I said but I'll look brilliant in case I luck out by pointing to the near obvious by that time.

    Economists forecast 'not because they know, but because they are asked'. - JK Galbraith

    "The only function of economic forecasting is to make astrology look respectable." - JK Galbraith

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    [gets out dartboard]

    25 March 2016, 9:03 A.M. GMT

    [/gets out dartboard]
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    Isn't it technically 2014-? Or did you use 2015 based on the technical recession?

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    I'd say in the fall of 2014 the last Saudi leased his last Rolls-Royce without a care in the world. Typical lease is 3 years. So in the fall of 2017, when Mahmood is looking at a S-Class instead instead of another Phantom, word of that hardship will get back to the head offices of Saudi Aramco. They will relay that information to the fall meeting at OPEC. They will cut production to support prices then.

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    Saudi has the same problem Alberta does, on a political-economic level. They fund their operations out of resource revenues, instead of operational revenues. It just doesn't seem as bad there because money rains from the sky without any whiff of a bust.

    Conceivably though, Saudi could introduce a budget next year that would gut their operational spending and invest their entire wealth (around $650 billion) following the Norway model. They are spending a LOT on ridiculous, over-the-top infrastructure projects and wealth transfers directly to citizens. If they cut that down to normal operational spending, they could operate indefinitely.

    Same thing with UAE (Almost $800B wealth fund), Kuwait ($600B) etc. If they introduce normal budgets, they could really survive forever, or until the water runs out, on dividends.

    However, places like Saudi also have demographic issues to worry about. Part of the reason they spend so much is to appease their populace and shore up support for the monarchy. Given the instability in the region right now, it would be a risky choice to abandon that politically.
    Last edited by Jaerdo; 12-11-2015 at 09:53 AM.

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    I predict that the next upswing in energy prices will be as poorly predicted as the last downturn. Or basically, what KC said.

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    I'm convinced deep political analysis will answer the question, not economics.

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    ^ X2

    As silly and tongue-in-cheek as my answer sounds ... my time living in Adu Dhabi taught me that the political situation in the Middle East can often be just as silly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post

    "The only function of economic forecasting is to make astrology look respectable." - JK Galbraith
    Was about to post the very same quote.

    That said, is this a "downturn" or just the beginning of the new normal?..
    "The only really positive thing one could say about Vancouver is, itís not the rest of Canada." Oink (britishexpats.com)

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    I won't claim any depth, but here are some superficial thoughts:

    In this case there are three political players who matter: the USA, the OPEC cartel, and Russia.

    The USA has revived its production with the new tertiary extraction techniques. It is not in their interests to see high prices, since their production is domestically consumed and high prices affect their industrial base. Eastern Canada is the same, by the way.

    The OPEC cartel wants to seek an intermediate price level to maximize the value of their exports, but in the short term is amenable to increase production to drive the price down if necessary, making up with quantity what they miss with price.

    Russia wishes as high a price as possible, since it is a nearly-pure exporter. It is exactly like Western Canada.

    At the moment the USA is in a heavy contain-Russia mode, so it colludes with OPEC to drive prices down. Signs of this collusion are obvious; the incoherence of the ISIS conflict is the clearest result, as OPEC supplies the side the USA is claiming to fight, with the USA doing nothing about it. OPEC colludes because it sees an opening in the Western European market as Russia is excluded.

    Our new government is quite Eastern in its outlook, so I don't expect Canada's relations with Russia to improve, although that cannot yet be ruled out. Relations may improve if the government recognizes the Western Canadian interest for higher oil prices. It is quite ironic that supposedly Albertan Harper sold out Alberta's interests completely when he went on his pro-Ukraine, anti-Russia rampage.

    The Russian intervention in the ISIS conflict is motivated, I believe, as a way of eliminating ISIS as a point of collusion between the USA and OPEC. ISIS seems to be the one important connection that places OPEC and the USA on the same side.

    Prices will go up if and only if the connection between the USA and OPEC is broken. I have no basis for saying when that might happen.

    Where is Canada in all this? Unfortunately, in the same hole we always seem to place ourselves in, as our foreign policy is driven by emotions and allegiances rather than national interest. Our implicit, I suspect hockey-driven, hatred of Russia does not allow us to recognize and properly act with the true situation. Canada and Russia play largely the same role in the world economy: resource supply. For that reason we are natural competitors. The Russians realize that fully, and act in their national interests; we recognize it faintly and do not. Thus the Arctic contention, where we make a lot of noise and do nothing. Thus our position on NATO, the Middle East, and everywhere else. Such a principled foreign policy! But principles are rubbish, whether they are Conservative or Liberal. A wise government would collude with Russia, arrange to corner the resource market, break free of NATO, disregard the USA. Could we do it? Of course. Can Russia be trusted in this? Of course: it is in their interest as well. Would we need to reorient our military? Yes. But it would be under our control, and would police the North as well as the South, in our interest rather than beholden to NATO. Would it affect the world price in favour? Yes, I believe it would. Could the Eastern industrial base be satisfied? Yes: with pipelines and a pre-NEP like lowly-set domestic oil price. Is it gonna happen? Ya bet your life it won't.

  12. #12

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    1- It is unfortunate that many think the "value" of forecast is its end-number point estimate. If it was possible to forecast with certainty, no markets should exist. No need for price discovery. This is false. Forecasts are tools for disciplined thinking on a subject, whereby the sensitivity of input assumptions can be tested on a systematic basis.

    2- If you think economists are poor forecasters, but "deep political analysis" is the way to go, have a look at this declassified Pentagon memo, courtesy of Donald Rumsfeld (Source: library.rumsfeld.com)

    3- If you don't have the tools to forecast, your best bet is the collective wisdom of the market. And if market failed to see the oil downturn, it will fail to predict when is the upturn. Meanwhile, as of this moment, market don't expect USD 75 dollar WTI in the foreseeable future: http://www.cmegroup.com/trading/ener...eet-crude.html

    Disclaimer: I am not an economist, but interact with economists across the world routinely.

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    It is very, very difficult to estimate actions of dictatorial countries like Saudi arabia using a simple realpolitik analysis. There is a lot of cultural nuance influencing decisions. It isn't simple "they need to do this because Russia did this, and USA did this, and OPEC this", they are worried about their own demographics. They have to worry about internal power struggles, having enough to buy off the right group, etc.

    In a way, dictatorships are far harder to predict than democracies. It is entirely possible that Saudi decides to drive itself into the ground and go bankrupt off of low oil prices, just because some guy decided to do that / was prevented from changing stance due to internal politics that are opaque even to international experts and the CIA.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaerdo View Post
    It is very, very difficult to estimate actions of dictatorial countries like Saudi arabia using a simple realpolitik analysis. There is a lot of cultural nuance influencing decisions. It isn't simple "they need to do this because Russia did this, and USA did this, and OPEC this", they are worried about their own demographics. They have to worry about internal power struggles, having enough to buy off the right group, etc.

    In a way, dictatorships are far harder to predict than democracies. It is entirely possible that Saudi decides to drive itself into the ground and go bankrupt off of low oil prices, just because some guy decided to do that / was prevented from changing stance due to internal politics that are opaque even to international experts and the CIA.
    Planning around multiple plausible scenarios is what should be used instead of forecasts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AShetsen View Post
    At the moment the USA is in a heavy contain-Russia mode, so it colludes with OPEC to drive prices down.
    Lest we forget there's an inverse correlation of the oil price to the USD exchange rate. The Fed is itching to pull the trigger on the first rate hike in 6 years which would mean an appreciation of the USD and an a corresponding decrease in oil prices.

    The good news here is there is a continuing de-financialization of the oil price, meaning money flows financed by cheap interest rates have been withdrawing from this commodity. This now leaves room for a more orthodox price discovery driven by proper supply and demand.

    There's a supply glut right now but it is very iffy if it is sustainable. The marginal barrels are coming from wells that deplete within 1 year which means these revolutionary shalers need to keep drilling to generate cash flow. And they aint got the money for that.

    When the price spikes it will spike quick and violently. It didn't happen this year because senior creditor loosened their covenants to keep the shalers from default. In March they will probably be wanting to cut that risk. And we ain't talking chump change here we're talking $300bn exposure to iffy E&P companies. Add to this that $200 bn of projects have been put on ice...and you can see there will be blood.

    Plus the Rus did not take very well to Saudis selling their wares to Poland this year.

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    ^ The shale drillers will be back quickly when the price starts to spike though. Bankruptcy will cost their investors, but someone will buy their assets and put them back to work as soon as the price is high enough to generate positive cash flow.

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    More bad news about oil prices on CBC today:

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/oil-...rage-1.3316101

    "Oil prices are testing fresh lows on Thursday, with a report that 100 million barrels of crude and heavy oil products are being held in ships at sea.

    West Texas Intermediate oil, the main North American contract, fell below $42 US a barrel, amid predictions that it would fall to the $20-30 level next year."
    Imagine: a world free of hypothetical situations!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Titanium48 View Post
    ^ The shale drillers will be back quickly when the price starts to spike though. Bankruptcy will cost their investors, but someone will buy their assets and put them back to work as soon as the price is high enough to generate positive cash flow.
    And in my mind, that's the big change we've experienced in the past decade. We're more like the 1950s-60s where more conventional drilling would meet rising demand. Then in the 1970s and again in the 1990s-2000s conditions were right for high upfront capital projects like oil sands. Now we're back to the conventional drilling scenarios. I may be off on this thinking though because there was also deep sea drilling and massive oil platform development taking place. If demand forecasts are rosy enough, the investment dollars flow.

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    The Saudi's cant sit on $45 for long, what with them getting cozy with Russia. The House of Saud also is worried about civil war on 2 fronts along its boarders. SA needs to stop funding terrorists in Syria and it looks like they are leaning towards that end. After a bit more research, I'm predicting $75 oil by Summer 2016.

    http://atimes.com/2015/11/saudis-syr...-soon-be-over/
    Last edited by envaneo; 15-11-2015 at 03:56 PM.
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    An interesting piece. Too bad for me, I was hoping Russia would bomb out oil installations and fields in Saudi in turn helping Alberta's oil industry get back on track. lol

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    (not a fan of Saudis or their bloody oil)

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    As I said a year ago, it's going to be a few years IMO. Historically, glut's don't go away overnight. Unless something big happens (Opec cuts, war, etc) I think we'll be in this situation until around 2020.

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    At the moment there are about 3 billion barrels of oil in reserve but that's nothing in terms of what the planet consumes worldwide, which is about 34 billion barrels of oil/year. The so called oil glut can be gone in a few months if the Saudis cut oil prices both foreign and domestic back to 2013 levels.

    http://www.iea.org/aboutus/faqs/oil/
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    Lots of anti-Saudi regime rhetoric floating around post the Paris attacks. Even on CBC interviews. Never seen it so prevalent. Perhaps more pressure on American leaders to change stance? Particularly in light of upcoming presidential election - will support for Saudi be a campaign issue?

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    Words to live by...



    "It is better to be vaguely right than exactly wrong" - Carveth Read


    An economist/investor's view of the future... (after he lost a fortune).


    The ignorance of even the best-informed investor about the more remote future is much greater than his knowledge, and he cannot but be influenced to a degree which would seem wildly disproportionate to anyone who really knew the future, and be forced to seek a clue mainly here to trends further ahead. But if this is true of the best-informed, the vast majority of those who are concerned with the buying and selling of securities know almost nothing whatever about what they are doing. They do not possess even the rudiments of what is required for a valid judgement, and are the prey of hopes and fears easily aroused by transient events and as easily dispelled. -.John Keynes
    Last edited by KC; 16-11-2015 at 10:16 AM.

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    ^ Damn the torpedos! Sticking to it to the end!

    Quote Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
    [gets out dartboard]

    25 March 2016, 9:03 A.M. GMT

    [/gets out dartboard]
    Let's make Edmonton better.

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    ^ You're gonna be sooooo wrong but Good Friday, god's luck to you!

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    ???

    That was unintended. Just simple triangulation.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
    ???

    That was unintended. Just simple triangulation.
    I thought you were summoning great spirits to save our butts - again.

    As in "Please God let there be another oil boom, and this time we promise not to **** it all away again."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaerdo View Post
    Lots of anti-Saudi regime rhetoric floating around post the Paris attacks. Even on CBC interviews. Never seen it so prevalent. Perhaps more pressure on American leaders to change stance? Particularly in light of upcoming presidential election - will support for Saudi be a campaign issue?
    At the G-20 the other day, news footage showed Obama/Putin in a face to face with translators. Obama seemed animated and intense. Don't know what Jeb will do but my guess is more of the same against Isis. SA could be in trouble during their next budget.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitlope View Post
    As I said a year ago, it's going to be a few years IMO. Historically, glut's don't go away overnight. Unless something big happens (Opec cuts, war, etc) I think we'll be in this situation until around 2020.
    2020? Gads, I hope it won't be that long! I have so many friends whose livelihoods depend on oil and gas
    Imagine: a world free of hypothetical situations!

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    What I find interesting, is that there is actually more oil being consumed globally today than there ever was, and there will be more consumed 2016 than 2015. It sort of highlights to me that:

    1. While people talk about the new technologies reducing consumption, consumption is still expanding while the developing world develops
    2. There was never any real threat of peak oil - that has been predicted since the begining of the oil industry, but new extraction technologies always arrive when prices rise.
    3. The key to be succesful is to extract cheapley in todays market - that's a challenge re new oil sands projects.

    When will prices rise again? I've no idea. Eventually they will though.

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    The above is in fact an expansion of the failure of Malthusian theory.

    Human consumption does not necessarily exponentially grow, and supply does not necessarily geometrically grow.

    Humans always find a way to innovate themselves out of doom, whether it is with food, oil, or anything else.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    What I find interesting, is that there is actually more oil being consumed globally today than there ever was, and there will be more consumed 2016 than 2015. It sort of highlights to me that:

    1. While people talk about the new technologies reducing consumption, consumption is still expanding while the developing world develops
    2. There was never any real threat of peak oil - that has been predicted since the begining of the oil industry, but new extraction technologies always arrive when prices rise.
    3. The key to be succesful is to extract cheapley in todays market - that's a challenge re new oil sands projects.

    When will prices rise again? I've no idea. Eventually they will though.
    The shale was known about for decades upon decades as are a few massive undeveloped oil sands and deep oil reserves. However consumption levels are pretty astounding so peak oil still makes sense. The fear mongers though ignore technological developments and the power of higher prices to make previously uneconomic sources available and so they really mess up the doom and gloom predictions.

    Similarly, there's lots of gold around and if prices rise, so does supply. Rising prices though don't offer a guaranteed that supply will match demand. Finding reserves of any commodity is always a crap shoot, they might find a super sized reserve or they might not find anything for decades.

    Or real estate. Prices rise and more land or space becomes available to eventually drive prices back downwards.

    Higher prices also trigger innovation and substitution which can change any industry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaerdo View Post
    Lots of anti-Saudi regime rhetoric floating around post the Paris attacks. Even on CBC interviews. Never seen it so prevalent. Perhaps more pressure on American leaders to change stance? Particularly in light of upcoming presidential election - will support for Saudi be a campaign issue?
    At the G-20 the other day, news footage showed Obama/Putin in a face to face with translators. Obama seemed animated and intense. Don't know what Jeb will do but my guess is more of the same against Isis. SA could be in trouble during their next budget.
    "What Jeb will do?" Are you suggesting Jeb is taking over next year? He won't even get the Republican nod, let along the Democrats.....

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    let along "beat" the Democrats

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    The shale was known about for decades upon decades as are a few massive undeveloped oil sands and deep oil reserves. However consumption levels are pretty astounding so peak oil still makes sense.
    Peak Oil didn't make sense when it was proposed, and it certainly doesn't now. Production can massivley increase with shale, at the drop of a hat, and shale reserves are enourmous, only a tiny bit tapped so far. There won't be a time, given the size the reserves and ease with which they can be tapped, in at least the next 200 years, when production can't be ramped up to keep up with demand. The only issue is the cost of that production (more distant shale will require more new infrastructure), and the strength of the demand.

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    Possibly 40-50% of Alberta's conventional, drilled reserves are still sitting there in the ground. Most wells only extracted something like 50% as pressure dropped off. I'd guess that shale would face similar limitations so the amount that can be economically extracted might be quite different than what is stated by companies trying to raise financing.

    Oil sands are also massive so maybe they alone could provide a number of years of supply on their own.

    Nonetheless, a peak may be years off or already have been reached after which we face higher and higher prices.

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    another view...

    Tue Nov 17, 2015 5:50pm EST
    Prudential's Peters uses barbell as rate hike looms
    NEW YORK | BY JONATHAN STEMPEL AND ROSS KERBER


    "...
    "Spreads have moved on the investment-grade side in a meaningful way," he said. "At the same time, leverage is the highest I've ever seen going into a down cycle. So I really worry about what happens to these companies with the stock of debt growing so meaningfully."

    Peters also said he is "quite negative" on energy companies, which have suffered from excess debt and capacity, and falling oil prices that he said could fall to $35 a barrel in 2016 from about $41 now, and more than $100 as recently as July 2014.

    "There's no catalyst to move them higher," he said. "A lot of these companies are not going to go away gracefully necessarily, and so the capacity kind of remains high as well. I think this is a longer-term problem."


    http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/...VR3qR49fpIy.97

    Last edited by KC; 17-11-2015 at 11:25 PM.

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    "The Stone Age did not end on account of a lack of stones, nor will the Oil Age end on account of a lack of oil. Rather, as stones were replaced by something superior, so too will oil be replaced with a superior energy kind."


    Saudi Arabia’s Oil Minister Ali Al Naimi
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    ^perhaps oil will be replaced by a superior energy, but until we come up with an alternative to make everything else (clothes, pharmaceuticals, chemicals, plastics, etc) from something other than oil, we will continue to have a need for it.

    As well, whatever superior technology we come up with for an energy source will be too expensive for most of the developing world. So, they will still depend upon oil and exporting countries will continue to drill and refine it as they will continue to turn profits.

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    ^we still need stones to (just drive on any road). Oil won't go away, but at some point it won't be an oil age anymore. Eventually new technology, be it hydrogen fuel cell, or electric battery, will be cheap enough for the developing and developed world. It is far more reliable technology as well. But when that is, price wise, is a major question.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GranaryMan View Post
    ^perhaps oil will be replaced by a superior energy, but until we come up with an alternative to make everything else (clothes, pharmaceuticals, chemicals, plastics, etc) from something other than oil, we will continue to have a need for it.

    As well, whatever superior technology we come up with for an energy source will be too expensive for most of the developing world. So, they will still depend upon oil and exporting countries will continue to drill and refine it as they will continue to turn profits.
    Technology is driving down the price of solar. So it might change the future dramatically.

    Here in Alberta, it's getting more like we're living in tobacco growing country. I'd say: Oil is the new Tobacco. Expect it to be regulated and taxed to death. Same for our coal.

    The other uses for oil make it a wonderful product, but oil is everywhere so how well we serve that market remains to be seen.

    Potash though, has a great future. Watch out for Peak Potash.
    Last edited by KC; 19-11-2015 at 01:34 PM.

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    Potash is king in Saskabush but like the oil industry is struggling. The Vale potash mine proposal in Kronau has been put on hold. The future for potash in the Province is almost as bleak as oil here in ours.

    http://globalnews.ca/news/2349771/va...-hold-for-now/
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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Potash is king in Saskabush but like the oil industry is struggling. The Vale potash mine proposal in Kronau has been put on hold. The future for potash in the Province is almost as bleak as oil here in ours.

    http://globalnews.ca/news/2349771/va...-hold-for-now/
    Low prices and demand now, but no international community of anti-potash forces out there trying to tax and kill the industry by calling it dirty potash, etc.


    Back to oil prices...

    OPEC, threatened by U.S. shale, ends up hitting Canada harder in price war

    Rebecca Penty and Jeremy van Loon, Bloomberg News | November 18, 2015


    “OPEC wants to hinder shale from its strong growth trajectory but there are higher-cost producers, such as in the oil sands of Canada, that are in the line of fire,” said Peter Pulikkan, an analyst at BI in New York. “Shale will eventually be impacted but it’s not...”


    ...
    There’s a risk that the U.S. eats all of Canada’s lunch, according to BI’s Pulikkan. Producers have been awaiting higher prices to turn on a backlog of U.S. shale wells that have been drilled and capped. Once they come on stream, they could push prices back down, rendering Canadian output uncompetitive yet again, he said.

    http://business.financialpost.com/ne...r-in-price-war
    Last edited by KC; 19-11-2015 at 05:40 PM.

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    ^ I think potash is trading at about $27 USD something like that. Like most commodities depend on oil to lead the way.
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    The future for potash in the Province is almost as bleak as oil here in ours.
    Sask supplies an incredible percentage of the world's potash. Internationally, there is absolutely no comparison between Canada's role with oil and Canada's role with potash.

    Potash Corporation of Saskatchewan

    The Potash Corporation of Saskatchewan Inc., also referred to as PotashCorp, is a Canadian corporation based in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan. The company is the world's largest potash producer and the third largest producers of nitrogen and phosphate, three primary crop nutrients used to produce fertilizer. At the end of 2011, the company controlled twenty percent of the world's potash production capacity.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potash...f_Saskatchewan

    And it doesn't stop there.

    The productive capacity of the Saskatchewan potash industry is currently 20.7 million tonnes of product, equivalent to 12.6 million tonnes K2O. The province is the largest potash producer in the world and typically accounts for about 25 to 30 per cent of world potash production.
    http://www.economy.gov.sk.ca/Potash

    Prices might not be the best at this time, fluctuating like any other natural resource, but when it comes to potash we (Sask) ARE the Saudi Arabia in production.
    Last edited by Kitlope; 21-11-2015 at 01:47 AM.

  48. #48
    C2E Hard Core Contributor
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    Alberta recession could stretch into 2017, economists warn

    Alberta’s recession is much deeper than originally thought and now economists are saying it’s possible the province’s economy could continue to contract into 2017.

    Statistics Canada’s report on gross domestic product by industry shows much steeper-than-expected contractions in many of Alberta’s sectors. The province’s overall economy contracted by four per cent in 2015, following growth of 4.5 per cent in 2014.

    The biggest declines were seen in oil and gas. Support activities for the sector saw a 38 per cent decline, while oil and gas engineering construction saw a 34 per cent. Economists note that the contractions, comparable to what was experienced during the 2009 Great Recession, suggest Alberta’s economy could stay in recession for longer than originally thought.
    http://business.financialpost.com/ne...conomists-warn

  49. #49

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    ^ugh, that's depressing. And keep in mind, many of the flow on effects haven't hit yet. Like, office tower construction which is humming along from the end of the boom. We aren't going to see many more built in Edmonton or Calgary for a long time, once the current batch under construction is done.

  50. #50

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    Apparently oil is back to $50. I better "revise" any of my price forecasts based on this new information. So per my latest forecast I'd say we are now moving closer to $55/bbl than we were before. Remember that you heard it here first.

  51. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
    [gets out dartboard]

    25 March 2016, 9:03 A.M. GMT

    [/gets out dartboard]
    Were you right?

  52. #52
    I'd rather C2E than work!
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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Apparently oil is back to $50. I better "revise" any of my price forecasts based on this new information. So per my latest forecast I'd say we are now moving closer to $55/bbl than we were before. Remember that you heard it here first.
    It was at $50 for about half an hour then dipped just under $50. I wouldn't get too excited.
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

  53. #53

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    Yeah, maybe hold off on the champagne. While $50 a barrel is symbolic let's see how long it lingers around that amount before moving up (or down).
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." ĖMark Twain

  54. #54
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    With our dollar lower $50 oil is $65 a barrel cdn. which is getting a lot better.

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    With our dollar lower $50 oil is $65 a barrel cdn. which is getting a lot better.
    WCS is at $37.50
    "The only really positive thing one could say about Vancouver is, itís not the rest of Canada." Oink (britishexpats.com)

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