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Thread: Refugees for Canada, Alberta and Edmonton?

  1. #601

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    i think many people find it hard to grasp that many canadians arent supportive of taking in as many refugees as we have been.

    There are a lot of issues in canada that get dealt with at a much slower pace or not at all... wouldnt it be great to see such fast moving action on other pressing matters within our own country.

  2. #602

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    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211 View Post
    i think many people find it hard to grasp that many canadians arent supportive of taking in as many refugees as we have been.

    There are a lot of issues in canada that get dealt with at a much slower pace or not at all... wouldnt it be great to see such fast moving action on other pressing matters within our own country.
    I think there is a real risk for Trudeau here. If we get a terrorist act by one of these refugees, or continue to get sexual assaults and similar, and unemployment continues to rise, I wonder how accepting Canadians will continue to be. All this boy scout stuff at the UN, give away our money, be morally right re refugees, plays well with the rich Chardonnay socialists in Ontario (lawyers, journalists, and similar), but I don't think it plays well with the working middle classes struggling for a pay rise and hoping for the same jobs as those refugees -not getting pay rises because of that extra labor pool depressing wages, including the left wing base. The temporary worker program was unpopular, but I think this one has the potential to be even more unpopular.
    Last edited by moahunter; 10-02-2017 at 11:26 AM.

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    So according to cbc the girls who got assaulted were not the victims it was the refugee who had his name mentioned .



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    The guy should be sent back immediately.

  5. #605

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    ^Only if he takes the Catholic Church with him.

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    Defending a child molesting perverted sicko means something is wrong with your morals bud. Get the animal out of here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by buildthemhigh View Post
    So according to cbc the girls who got assaulted were not the victims it was the refugee who had his name mentioned .






    Top_Dawg is beginning to like this Rebel Media more and more.

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    Me too

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    As for the Catholic Church offenders should be prosecuted and the church, by law of our country, should be made to allow clergy to have a spouse or partner.

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    ^^ ^They don't care what party you're affiliated with they tell it like it is

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    Just another sow at the trough

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    Levant says that CBC didn't speak to "any feminists or anyone from the rape crisis centre". In my experience, news items about sexual assault don't usually talk to those sorts of people anyway.

    As for talking to the Muslim spokesman, well...

    Imagine someone from Edmonton moves to Calgary, and proceeds to commit sexual assualt. The Calgary Sun then runs a headline MIGRANT WORKER FROM EDMONTON CHARGED WITH SEX ASSAULTS. I'm wagering that at least some people in Edmonton(indeed on this very website) would take issue with that, and would try to get their concerns aired in the media.

    That said, I think there can be good reasons for identifying the national or geographical background of an accused criminal, eg. it might effect their legal status in the event of a trial etc, but I'd prefer to see it mentioned in passing in the body of the article, not splashed in the headline at the very top, eg. "Lawyers for Mr. Jones, who is originally from the US, said that..." And everyone can judge for themselves how relevant they consider that to be.

  13. #613

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    This incident at WEM waterpark is only angering so many people because it is part of a pattern that has been reported in swimming pools across Europe for the last couple of years.

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    I love Rebel Media

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    ^^^That's crazy. They always say on the news here where people are from etc. I wish you people would get your heads out of your arseholes and quit defending this piece of *****. Jeezuz
    Last edited by Drumbones; 10-02-2017 at 12:29 PM.

  16. #616

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    The guy should be sent back immediately.
    Alas, we're stuck with Ezra... he was born here.
    I feel in no way entitled to your opinion...

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    Sorry skinners deserve no protection from identity whatsoever ^ no matter what their nationality
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    The guy should be sent back immediately.
    Alas, we're stuck with Ezra... he was born here.
    So no comment on the girls who were raped just blast on Levant bravo
    live for happiness because without it everything seems ho hum

  19. #619

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    Quote Originally Posted by ajs View Post
    ^Only if he takes the Catholic Church with him.
    on Gee I thought the title of this thread was"Refugees for Canada-Alberta-Edmonton", throwing the Catholic Church topic (worthy of discussion on it's own) in to the blend is erroneous and off topic IMO.

    Moreover there are already threads for the Catholic Church issue.

    BTW it adds nothing "in my opinion" to the topic at hand or do anything to solve the issues within the topic.

    IMHBPO

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    This just shows how this country is going to the dogs. We need a Joe Welder from Thorsby to start a revolution.
    Last edited by Drumbones; 10-02-2017 at 12:35 PM.

  21. #621

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    This incident at WEM waterpark is only angering so many people because it is part of a pattern that has been reported in swimming pools across Europe for the last couple of years.
    Again goes back to my comment a number of posts back .... we are dealing with not only real risk (however small) but perceived risk which has been magnified by the coverage internationally.

    Is it fair, I don't think so. Is it the reality of the situation, yes like it or not.

  22. #622

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    This just shows how this country is going to the dogs. We need a Joe Welder from Thorsby to start a revolution.
    I'll disagree, but we need people to start talking to each other not "at" or "down" and we need to realize the different points of view and perceptions and where they come from.

    When someone questions an issue like the one the automatic response should not be "bigot" or "racist" it should be "why?" so you can get to the root of the problem and open doors.

    IMO

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    Another sympathizer, gawd. I gotta get off of here. It's not bigot or racists, it's calling out a skinner, a diddler, the guy should be shot. I don't understand why so many people defend him. You must not have kids of your own. I do and if some jerk off molested my child I would want him locked up very tight or gone and I don't care what his religion, race or status.
    Last edited by Drumbones; 10-02-2017 at 12:45 PM.

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    What drives me crazy is that Trudeau jumped on a plane to a candlelight vigil for the victims of the mosque shooting - the results of this attack was not a result of his political policy.

    But when these girls were sexually assaulted as a direct result of Trudeau's immigration policy, he doesn't even reach out. These girls were literally "touched" but Trudeau's policies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    ^^^That's crazy. They always say on the news here where people are from etc. I wish you people would get your heads out of your arseholes and quit defending this piece of *****. Jeezuz
    Yes, as I said, I think it is appropriate in many cases to identify the background of the alleged criminal. The only disagreement I had was with making it part of the headline.

    As for anyone defending the alleged perp, who here do you see doing that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    Another sympathizer, gawd. I gotta get off of here.
    Yup we're living in the age where the wrong doers are the victims and the real victims are the culprit, and dare not point out what the problems are because you might offend the perpetrator. You can't reason with evil it's non negotiable.
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    You got that right

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    Imagine if the girls that were attacked in the pool were Syrian refugees. Do you think Mohamed Huque would be pleading for discretion and that it's doesn't matter the race or the immigration status of those attacked?

  29. #629

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    Quote Originally Posted by buildthemhigh View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    The guy should be sent back immediately.
    Alas, we're stuck with Ezra... he was born here.
    So no comment on the girls who were raped just blast on Levant bravo
    You are saying that they were raped. Where is your source? 6 girls were assaulted but I doubt that 6 were raped if any.

    According to news reports, they were inappropriately touched which is considered sexual assault. There is no mention of rape.

    A 39-year-old man faces six counts of sexual assault after several teenage girls say they were inappropriately touched Saturday evening at the West Edmonton Mall World Waterpark.

    Edmonton police were called to the water park at about 10:30 p.m. after receiving reports of sexual assaults.


    A man "both followed and inappropriately touched at least six teen girls while swimming in the park," said police spokesperson Scott Pattison.
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...ault-1.3972344
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  30. #630

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    Another sympathizer, gawd. I gotta get off of here. It's not bigot or racists, it's calling out a skinner, a diddler, the guy should be shot. I don't understand why so many people defend him. You must not have kids of your own. I do and if some jerk off molested my child I would want him locked up very tight or gone and I don't care what his religion, race or status.
    You're missing the whole point of my post.

    I was saying that those that come out calling those questioning immigration or pointing out issues on the topic often get labeled "bigots" or "racist" but rarely asked "why" they have an issue.

    And I am not defending the creep charged ...

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    @ Edmonton PRT

    IANAL, but I believe that in Canada, there is actually no longer a crime known as "rape", just "sexual assault". So, even if the acts allegedly commited WERE the type that commonly used to be called rape, it would still be classified as sexual assault.

  32. #632

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    It could have been groping as well. The sicko grabbing underage girls in their bathing suits.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by buildthemhigh View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    The guy should be sent back immediately.
    Alas, we're stuck with Ezra... he was born here.
    So no comment on the girls who were raped just blast on Levant bravo
    You are saying that they were raped. Where is your source? 6 girls were assaulted but I doubt that 6 were raped if any.

    According to news reports, they were inappropriately touched which is considered sexual assault. There is no mention of rape.

    A 39-year-old man faces six counts of sexual assault after several teenage girls say they were inappropriately touched Saturday evening at the West Edmonton Mall World Waterpark.

    Edmonton police were called to the water park at about 10:30 p.m. after receiving reports of sexual assaults.


    A man "both followed and inappropriately touched at least six teen girls while swimming in the park," said police spokesperson Scott Pattison.
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...ault-1.3972344
    Listen semantics man I don't live in your political correct bubble . Educate yourself https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/rape
    live for happiness because without it everything seems ho hum

  34. #634

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by buildthemhigh View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    The guy should be sent back immediately.
    Alas, we're stuck with Ezra... he was born here.
    So no comment on the girls who were raped just blast on Levant bravo
    You are saying that they were raped. Where is your source? 6 girls were assaulted but I doubt that 6 were raped if any.
    C'mon, BTH doesn't need a source for spittle-generating invective, it's what helps him "live for happiness because without it everything seems ho hum". Suddenly these girls are "raped" and I'm "blast"ing on Levant - kneejerk hyperbole uber alles. You folks should know that by now.

    I feel in no way entitled to your opinion...

  35. #635

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    Pretty sure groping is what happened. Glad he was caught and will be punished. The more I think about it I'm glad that his identity was published so that his case can be a warning to other refugees. They need to know that we take this seriously and that we have a working Justice system.
    Last edited by Highlander II; 10-02-2017 at 01:42 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by buildthemhigh View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    The guy should be sent back immediately.
    Alas, we're stuck with Ezra... he was born here.
    So no comment on the girls who were raped just blast on Levant bravo
    You are saying that they were raped. Where is your source? 6 girls were assaulted but I doubt that 6 were raped if any.
    C'mon, BTH doesn't need a source for spittle-generating invective, it's what helps him "live for happiness because without it everything seems ho hum". Suddenly these girls are "raped" and I'm "blast"ing on Levant - kneejerk hyperbole uber alles. You folks should know that by now.

    He doesn't like me I don't like him and that's ok we don't have to pretend we like someone in this world, And in fact I respect the fact he is not afraid to show his discord for me it's what makes me happy and takes away the ho hum .
    live for happiness because without it everything seems ho hum

  37. #637
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    The girls were raped of their fun day at the mall. Rape means take away. Rapeseed was called such because it raped the soil. You can not grow it continually or the soil will be left dead so crop rotation is necessary

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    ^^^^ [IMG][/IMG]
    live for happiness because without it everything seems ho hum

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Growing up, my neighbours for decades were from Lebanon (Muslims - the parents were immigrants, not the kids ). Great people! We never, ever, ever, not even once, not for a second, thought that they might be terrorists. Lebanon also went through hell during that time. I also had a few Jewish acquaintances/friends and had a Jewish dentist and I never thought for a second that he might drill a hole on my brain or anything. We also had a Yugoslavian neighbour too. Again no fears or even thoughts of radicalism there. I fact about half our neighbours were immigrants or kids of immigrants from other parts of the world. We saw them all as immigrants not terrorists.
    Which is fine. My neighbors growing up were Hungarian Muslim, they were nice people. The thing is though, we are taking in a large number of people from a war zone that is happening right now, and from a culture, like it or not, that is at least 50 years behind ours in respect of human rights and the status of women. There was no sexual revolution like we had in the 60's, there was no feminist movement. We can just open the doors and let anyone in, like Europe did, resulting in all sorts of incidents and a massive backlash. Or we can educate people, assimilate them, do psychological evaluations and similar, and just make sure that doesn't happen to the same extent. It might cost more, it might mean we can't take as many refugees from those particular countries, but its effort I think is worth it so that we don't end up in a situation like the US right now with 48% of the population in backlash. It was very humane of JT to randomly throw out a number of 25,000 or similar, but I think its time to work out the number we can actually manage properly, and I expect from one country this amount doesn't make sense. Especially since it has meant we haven't been able to take as many refugees from other countries where people are persecuted, like gay Iranians.
    Post Wars, we admitted Germans. Post WWII, we admitted people that we're coming from a twice aggressive nation that were centuries behind North America in terms of its respect for life, for democratic government and the rule of law and constitutional protection of minorities (exterminating millions upon millions of people, invading Europe, attacking our own Commonwealth countries etc.)

    Now, we have had just 17 people jumping our border in Manitoba, overwhelming services, and its national news (on CBC anyway). I can't imagine tens of millions of people jumping our border as the states has lived with for many decades. However, thanks to Trump, we may soon have unpredictable numbers of US resident illegal Latinos and other originating illegal immigrants heading towards our border. Now, that introduces an interesting randomness in terms of backgrounds, ideologies, threats and opportunities for Canada.


    Personally, I think we must do what we feel can to help people in desperate situations. Unfortunately around the world there are likely far more desperate people than all of the people in Canada. So that's problematic. Our response to the Syrians seemed highly biased because there are many, many more people laguishing in refugee camps already that we could have taken first. The Syrians essentially jumped the queue. Moreover, they are largely in the desperate state due to their (note the gross generalization) doing (the civil war). There are likely must more 'innocent' refugees available for rescue that we are ignoring and leaving to a rather sad fate of life in some refugee camp.

    As for immigration in general, and again personally, I question that immigration should always be seen as a great thing for Canada. The costs to Canada may even surpass the benefits. Some of the always overlooked costs to any immigration may include:

    One, taking the best of the best from other countries isn't being a great global citizen. We are often robbing talent from other poorer countries that can't really afford to loose that talent.

    Two, immigration of talent reduces pressure here to adequately train and pay our own population for the jobs that we are importing people to do.

    Three, immigration here takes the pressure off our society to do what it takes to ensure a desired replacement rate within our own existing population by boosting services to families (assuming replacement rate is desired).

    Four, immigration reduces wages across the workforce which improves our global competiveness but reduces potential for a much higher standard of living. (Any business owner and investor understands the dire threat dilution poses to their investment return. They accept some dilution in exchange for high growth but realize that often all they get is a smaller piece of a mediocre pie.)

    We pretty much know that technology will kill a lot of traditional jobs going forward (at an accelerating pace) and only accept as a matter of faith that we will replace those jobs with equal or better quality jobs for the existing population plus all the future immigrants. Think of Albertans dependence on oil and gas and the now realized threat horizontal drilling has posed for our once bright future.)

    Moreover, technology is a huge threat because other highly populated countries such as China and India are proving to be able to maintain the low skill and the high skill tasks. Their economies can cover the full economic spectrum as we once did. They have "resilience". Today our globalization and reliance on competive advantage combined with a much larger population base but still focused on resource extraction, makes us more of a one company town (dependent on the boom bust nature of commodities and commodity-like products), forever failing at diversification and highly dependent on open markets and then the wide socialization/distribution of those benefits of higher production and trade. So Protectionism is a huge threat to us, but not to economies with the wider spectrum of economic functionality (ie that doesn't destroy the middle class.).

    Five, a higher population creates internal growth but also creates numerous negative consequences including negative environmental impacts, higher global warming threats, higher consumption, etc.

    Six, immigration imports older traditional views and behaviours and belief systems that challenge and/or compete with current dominant beliefs. This can be good or bad but importantly, it's not a given that it is a good thing. It also potentially reduces the broad appreciation for cultural and other heritage (appreciation of native rights and culture, Metis culture, monarchist loyalty, French Canadian culture, traditional religious and other roles in society, etc.)



    Seven, ....
    German people post WW1 and WW2 were "non preferred" immigrants and afaik German post WWII migration was negligible here until 1947 but with that being mostly East Germany Refugees and other refugees. Canada accepted these migrants very reluctantly and only after a lot of pressure from a large German community that were already Canadians and had been for some time as Several waves of German immigration to Canada had previously occurred. it wasn't until 1950, a full 5 yrs after the WW that restrictions on German immigration to Canada were lifted. Should I also mention Japanese residents in internment camps? This is not insignificant as Canada was very opposed to immediate postwar immigration here from Germany or Japan.

    Lets not rewrite history here. This nation, and most others, have had considerable misgivings about allowing immigration from war torn countries and has often only done so reluctantly and belatedly. Concerns are expressed now, as they always have been.

    Finally, nobody has mentioned this but its plausible that Canada's ability to take on new migration is being somewhat stretched. Canada exists in an increasing state of anomie, this is a nation who's population has tripled in the last century and doubled over the last 50yrs. With it being a very multicultural nation which is well and good. However, in that, is there still an integrated Canada with clear and easily followed sets of mores or does this country resemble anarchy to newcomers. I suggest the latter.
    I dare say my German immigrant parents had enough difficulty assimilating to Canada and its culture, language. Imagine trying to do that as an immigrant if you can't discern what the culture, values, mores are. This is no small point and its not even being considered.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  40. #640

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    The girls were raped of their fun day at the mall. Rape means take away. Rapeseed was called such because it raped the soil. You can not grow it continually or the soil will be left dead so crop rotation is necessary
    errr no... "rapeseed" stems from the Latin word "rapa" meaning "turnip"...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapeseed
    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/rape
    http://www.latin-dictionary.net/search/latin/rapa
    Last edited by Spudly; 10-02-2017 at 02:03 PM. Reason: bad links
    I feel in no way entitled to your opinion...

  41. #641
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by buildthemhigh View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    The guy should be sent back immediately.
    Alas, we're stuck with Ezra... he was born here.
    So no comment on the girls who were raped just blast on Levant bravo
    You are saying that they were raped. Where is your source? 6 girls were assaulted but I doubt that 6 were raped if any.

    According to news reports, they were inappropriately touched which is considered sexual assault. There is no mention of rape.

    A 39-year-old man faces six counts of sexual assault after several teenage girls say they were inappropriately touched Saturday evening at the West Edmonton Mall World Waterpark.

    Edmonton police were called to the water park at about 10:30 p.m. after receiving reports of sexual assaults.


    A man "both followed and inappropriately touched at least six teen girls while swimming in the park," said police spokesperson Scott Pattison.
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...ault-1.3972344
    Good job PRT. the hyperbole on this is amazing. with lynch mobs and public hanging being recommended. Wow. Theres been very little clear information on what exactly occurred. Not to diminish it, just that we largely don't know. Inappropriate touching occurred, (and not even area specific disclosure) , is as much as we do know.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  42. #642

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Good job PRT. the hyperbole on this is amazing. with lynch mobs and public hanging being recommended. Wow. Theres been very little clear information on what exactly occurred. Not to diminish it, just that we largely don't know. Inappropriate touching occurred, (and not even area specific disclosure) , is as much as we do know.
    Much like the inappropriate touching in Europe in swimming pools and at public events, by refugee's / illegal immigrants. But agreed, no indication this was rape.

  43. #643

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    German people post WW1 and WW2 were "non preferred" immigrants and afaik German post WWII migration was negligible here until 1947 but with that being mostly East Germany Refugees and other refugees. Canada accepted these migrants very reluctantly and only after a lot of pressure from a large German community that were already Canadians and had been for some time as Several waves of German immigration to Canada had previously occurred. it wasn't until 1950, a full 5 yrs after the WW that restrictions on German immigration to Canada were lifted. Should I also mention Japanese residents in internment camps? This is not insignificant as Canada was very opposed to immediate postwar immigration here from Germany or Japan.

    Lets not rewrite history here. This nation, and most others, have had considerable misgivings about allowing immigration from war torn countries and has often only done so reluctantly and belatedly. Concerns are expressed now, as they always have been.

    Finally, nobody has mentioned this but its plausible that Canada's ability to take on new migration is being somewhat stretched. Canada exists in an increasing state of anomie, this is a nation who's population has tripled in the last century and doubled over the last 50yrs. With it being a very multicultural nation which is well and good. However, in that, is there still an integrated Canada with clear and easily followed sets of mores or does this country resemble anarchy to newcomers. I suggest the latter.
    I dare say my German immigrant parents had enough difficulty assimilating to Canada and its culture, language. Imagine trying to do that as an immigrant if you can't discern what the culture, values, mores are. This is no small point and its not even being considered.
    Thanks Replacement

    You've backed up the points I was making early very well and likely better worded.

    This is a lot more complex than screaming bigot and racist. Without looking into "why" things are changing or happening you can't possibly pretend to understand where it comes from.

  44. #644

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Good job PRT. the hyperbole on this is amazing. with lynch mobs and public hanging being recommended.
    The torches & pitchforks crowd isn't limited to here either:
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...cism-1.3973831
    I feel in no way entitled to your opinion...

  45. #645

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Good job PRT. the hyperbole on this is amazing. with lynch mobs and public hanging being recommended. Wow. Theres been very little clear information on what exactly occurred. Not to diminish it, just that we largely don't know. Inappropriate touching occurred, (and not even area specific disclosure) , is as much as we do know.
    It is called PREJUDICE

    as in Pre-Justice, acting or forming an opinion or action without all the facts or understanding.

    A preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience, making biased judgements.

    When was the last time we heard another Catholic Priest issue and did anyone suggest that we send all of them back to the Vatican?
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  46. #646
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    When was the last time we heard another Catholic Priest issue and did anyone suggest that we send all of them back to the Vatican?
    Well, I would bet that if there had been a lot of priestly sex-abuse scandals reported in the days when a cartoon like this could appear in a respectable magazine(Harper's), there probably would have been calls for Catholic offendors, and probably Catholics in general, to be deported. But of course, that's because(as with Muslims today), there were people with a pre-existing dislike of Catholics, who latched onto any issue to justify their agenda.

    (Incidentally, that cartoon was drawn by Thomas Nast, who created the animal symbols for the American political parties, and also made a big contribution to the contemporary image of Santa Claus.)

  47. #647

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post

    It is called PREJUDICE

    as in Pre-Justice, acting or forming an opinion or action without all the facts or understanding.

    A preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience, making biased judgements.

    When was the last time we heard another Catholic Priest issue and did anyone suggest that we send all of them back to the Vatican?
    Devils Advocate Well lets look at it another way for a minute

    Forming an opinion or action without all the facts or understanding ...
    - Has the Catholic Church posted video of people being by them beheaded lately?
    - Threatened to end our way of life in the last say 100 years?
    - Has the Catholic Church performed any terrorism that has made the news?

    Do I really need to go on? How about we look at where the preconceived notions come from before getting on the high horse.

    When people are inundated with these stories on the nightly news do you really think it doesn't alter their perception?

    Once again ... Is it right? NO/Is it fair? NO/Is it real? YES

    IMO

  48. #648

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Hinderks View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    German people post WW1 and WW2 were "non preferred" immigrants and afaik German post WWII migration was negligible here until 1947 but with that being mostly East Germany Refugees and other refugees. Canada accepted these migrants very reluctantly and only after a lot of pressure from a large German community that were already Canadians and had been for some time as Several waves of German immigration to Canada had previously occurred. it wasn't until 1950, a full 5 yrs after the WW that restrictions on German immigration to Canada were lifted. Should I also mention Japanese residents in internment camps? This is not insignificant as Canada was very opposed to immediate postwar immigration here from Germany or Japan.

    Lets not rewrite history here. This nation, and most others, have had considerable misgivings about allowing immigration from war torn countries and has often only done so reluctantly and belatedly. Concerns are expressed now, as they always have been.

    Finally, nobody has mentioned this but its plausible that Canada's ability to take on new migration is being somewhat stretched. Canada exists in an increasing state of anomie, this is a nation who's population has tripled in the last century and doubled over the last 50yrs. With it being a very multicultural nation which is well and good. However, in that, is there still an integrated Canada with clear and easily followed sets of mores or does this country resemble anarchy to newcomers. I suggest the latter.
    I dare say my German immigrant parents had enough difficulty assimilating to Canada and its culture, language. Imagine trying to do that as an immigrant if you can't discern what the culture, values, mores are. This is no small point and its not even being considered.
    Thanks Replacement

    You've backed up the points I was making early very well and likely better worded.

    This is a lot more complex than screaming bigot and racist. Without looking into "why" things are changing or happening you can't possibly pretend to understand where it comes from.
    My thanks to you as well Replacement.

    Let's not forget Ukrainian Canadian internment that happened right here in Alberta as well.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrain...ian_internment

    Another example was all the KKK actions including in Edmonton "hostile toward immigrants and people of colour, but also viciously anti-Catholic." http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...dged-1.3872961
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  49. #649

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Hinderks View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post

    It is called PREJUDICE

    as in Pre-Justice, acting or forming an opinion or action without all the facts or understanding.

    A preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience, making biased judgements.

    When was the last time we heard another Catholic Priest issue and did anyone suggest that we send all of them back to the Vatican?
    Devils Advocate Well lets look at it another way for a minute

    Forming an opinion or action without all the facts or understanding ...
    - Has the Catholic Church posted video of people being by them beheaded lately? Remember the Spanish Inquisition?
    - Threatened to end our way of life in the last say 100 years? Ask a First Nations person
    - Has the Catholic Church performed any terrorism that has made the news? Do you not remember the 'Troubles' and IRA Terrorism in Ireland and beyond?

    Do I really need to go on? How about we look at where the preconceived notions come from before getting on the high horse.

    When people are inundated with these stories on the nightly news do you really think it doesn't alter their perception?

    Once again ... Is it right? NO/Is it fair? NO/Is it real? YES

    IMO
    My notes in Red

    I will say that the Media blows all these events out of proportion and then we tweet and blog about them ad nauseum...
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  50. #650

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Hinderks View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post

    It is called PREJUDICE

    as in Pre-Justice, acting or forming an opinion or action without all the facts or understanding.

    A preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience, making biased judgements.

    When was the last time we heard another Catholic Priest issue and did anyone suggest that we send all of them back to the Vatican?
    Devils Advocate Well lets look at it another way for a minute

    Forming an opinion or action without all the facts or understanding ...
    - Has the Catholic Church posted video of people being by them beheaded lately?
    - Threatened to end our way of life in the last say 100 years?
    - Has the Catholic Church performed any terrorism that has made the news?

    Do I really need to go on? How about we look at where the preconceived notions come from before getting on the high horse.

    When people are inundated with these stories on the nightly news do you really think it doesn't alter their perception?

    Once again ... Is it right? NO/Is it fair? NO/Is it real? YES

    IMO
    How soon we forget. Wasn't long ago that this sort of thing was on the nightly news:

    http://www.religioustolerance.org/clergy_sex3.htm

    All the hand wringing over immigration numbers, "assimilation" and other polite, politically correct chatter is just to make you feel better about yourselves. Immigrants cost money.

    Great book, well worth a read: http://muslimtide.com/

  51. #651

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Hinderks View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post

    It is called PREJUDICE

    as in Pre-Justice, acting or forming an opinion or action without all the facts or understanding.

    A preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience, making biased judgements.

    When was the last time we heard another Catholic Priest issue and did anyone suggest that we send all of them back to the Vatican?
    Devils Advocate Well lets look at it another way for a minute

    Forming an opinion or action without all the facts or understanding ...
    - Has the Catholic Church posted video of people being by them beheaded lately? Remember the Spanish Inquisition?
    - Threatened to end our way of life in the last say 100 years? Ask a First Nations person
    - Has the Catholic Church performed any terrorism that has made the news? Do you not remember the 'Troubles' and IRA Terrorism in Ireland and beyond?

    Do I really need to go on? How about we look at where the preconceived notions come from before getting on the high horse.

    When people are inundated with these stories on the nightly news do you really think it doesn't alter their perception?

    Once again ... Is it right? NO/Is it fair? NO/Is it real? YES

    IMO
    My notes in Red

    I will say that the Media blows all these events out of proportion and then we tweet and blog about them ad nauseum...
    I will agree part of the problem is the media ... but that's what happens when you have a deterioration in news rooms and researchers, perspective is lost.

    And your red notes ... though the events are very important they are not the scale we see today.

    And really the Spanish Inquisition happened lately?

    As for the IRA, as over 1/2 of my family continues to live in Northern Ireland and a cousin was on the Belfast police flying squad you bet I'm familiar to both the media and reality. As well as the fact the church was not involved.

    BTW in case you've forgotten... IRA, Irish Republican Party

    IMO

  52. #652

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    As evidenced from here, perspective is hardly relevant anymore, when the rabble see "Syrian" and start talking about deportations for "rape." And rabbling against the CBC for not mentioning that the guy is Syrian right away as though it's a lefty elite cover-up.

    This makes some people happy.
    I feel in no way entitled to your opinion...

  53. #653
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Hinderks View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    German people post WW1 and WW2 were "non preferred" immigrants and afaik German post WWII migration was negligible here until 1947 but with that being mostly East Germany Refugees and other refugees. Canada accepted these migrants very reluctantly and only after a lot of pressure from a large German community that were already Canadians and had been for some time as Several waves of German immigration to Canada had previously occurred. it wasn't until 1950, a full 5 yrs after the WW that restrictions on German immigration to Canada were lifted. Should I also mention Japanese residents in internment camps? This is not insignificant as Canada was very opposed to immediate postwar immigration here from Germany or Japan.

    Lets not rewrite history here. This nation, and most others, have had considerable misgivings about allowing immigration from war torn countries and has often only done so reluctantly and belatedly. Concerns are expressed now, as they always have been.

    Finally, nobody has mentioned this but its plausible that Canada's ability to take on new migration is being somewhat stretched. Canada exists in an increasing state of anomie, this is a nation who's population has tripled in the last century and doubled over the last 50yrs. With it being a very multicultural nation which is well and good. However, in that, is there still an integrated Canada with clear and easily followed sets of mores or does this country resemble anarchy to newcomers. I suggest the latter.
    I dare say my German immigrant parents had enough difficulty assimilating to Canada and its culture, language. Imagine trying to do that as an immigrant if you can't discern what the culture, values, mores are. This is no small point and its not even being considered.
    Thanks Replacement

    You've backed up the points I was making early very well and likely better worded.

    This is a lot more complex than screaming bigot and racist. Without looking into "why" things are changing or happening you can't possibly pretend to understand where it comes from.
    I noted your earlier comments and wanted to further support that this is a very complex undertaking currently. Canada is just next to the US. Largely for that reason we have been inundated with certain media messages since 9/11 especially. Fear is the root of a lot of it and fear has certainly been inflamed. But heres whats going on. A nation, Canada that exists in a state of cultural anomie as I suggested (and I hope people look that term up if not familiar with it) is charged with the task of taking people that are suffering traumatic injury, that come from wartorn countries and that have lost any sense of who they are, what they are, and how to adapt, cope, etc. We in a sense are adopting these people in a nation, that, from my reckoning, has lost much of a sense of who WE are. This is an inherent challenge of the global village country building. Which I fully support, except that theres no known blueprint for what it is that we are doing at this point.

    People from wartorn countries that are traumatized benefit from such things as security, comfort, stability and often have need for salient spiritual and cultural practice to fill lost identity voids. Such spiritual practice can rebuild hope, provide comfort, reassurance. Canada, present day, is not strong in providing that, either to immigrants or people living here. I want to note here that I am separating spirituality from Religion. Just that with the collapse of Christianic teachings and patronage Canada's spirituality tends to be, in lieu, a mixed bag if anything.

    So we adopt these individuals from wartorn countries. We give them bread, say that this is a peaceful land, say that things are stable here, and house them in areas where the people next door or down the street might have considerable acrimony towards them. Or reading main news about a WEM incident and shuddering at the "Syrian' recoil involved in all the comments.

    This is a less than ideal situation (of course) for everybody involved.

    I know in this instance it would depart from investigational protocol but I wish now that the news on the perpetrators origin is out if there could be some words released that denote what nature of touching was involved. Because right now the atmosphere, in lieu of that is toxic. Fear fills in information when the circumstance is not disclosed. We've seen that right in this thread.
    Last edited by Replacement; 10-02-2017 at 03:28 PM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    As evidenced from here, perspective is hardly relevant anymore, when the rabble see "Syrian" and start talking about deportations for "rape." And rabbling against the CBC for not mentioning that the guy is Syrian right away as though it's a lefty elite cover-up.

    This makes some people happy.
    Its the inherent difficulty that there is no perspective. At least not one perspective. Or valid perspective whatever that is. For various reasons the Western World particularly is embraced with kind of a shock and awe sense of futility about understanding events. Even civic events, nonetheless the world. Add to this that politically, and culturally, as a nation we seem so currently torn between so many things.

    This goes on another tangent, but the study of such phenomenon as psychic or group disintegration of values, which occurs when either a vacuum or myriad complex and competing values persist, where values just become complex unknowns, may have some bearing on this.

    The growing pains, somewhat, that result in zero to sixty "so many feelings" that we see expressed so much (and of course I do it too) is a product of the chaos of our times.

    Future Shock? lol, Toffler completely undersold it.

    *Future traumatizing overwhelming shock* would be more like it. Hell we don't know where the world is headed in 10yrs? In the span of a lifetime, haha Toffler, we don't know where it lands in a year.

    We're all bombarded with constant change and spend much of our time reacting to it. Constantly.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  55. #655
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    The girls were raped of their fun day at the mall. Rape means take away. Rapeseed was called such because it raped the soil. You can not grow it continually or the soil will be left dead so crop rotation is necessary
    errr no... "rapeseed" stems from the Latin word "rapa" meaning "turnip"...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapeseed
    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/rape
    http://www.latin-dictionary.net/search/latin/rapa
    I say this as a farmer not a professor. This was the understanding among farmers in my neighborhood growing up. If you ask a farmer he will say the same. It rapes the soil of all nutrition quickly. Thanks for the education tho.

  56. #656

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    As evidenced from here, perspective is hardly relevant anymore, when the rabble see "Syrian" and start talking about deportations for "rape." And rabbling against the CBC for not mentioning that the guy is Syrian right away as though it's a lefty elite cover-up.

    This makes some people happy.
    As evidenced here ... there are multiple perspectives, it's just everyone wants to rail theirs is right and generally refuse to acknowledge where the other's perspective comes from.
    As seen here.

    Some of those that consider themselves "better than that" write off others that have "real concerns" from the information fed to them. It's not just this issue ether.

    Most people do not spend their day on the internet. Work, kids, sports, lives. They catch the mainstream news radio or TV that fits their schedule and take it at "face value". That alone drives fears.

    Now add in other fears ... reported on 630 not 15 minutes ago unemployment up to 8.8% in Edmonton, 25,000 jobs lost in January in Alberta, those finding work only finding part time.

    Then take the time to realize that right now in Province there are +/- 100,000 unemployed people in the trackable system, most "Talk show Expert guests" are pegging it around 200,000 total (counting those that have fallen out of the system, contracts and related) and the untracked number that are under-employed and trying to figure out how to pay the bills. Now the Premier comes along saying " Justin buddy Alberta will take more people".

    Fear on fear add up and if you're on the bottom 2 levels of "Maslow's hierarchy of needs" compassion and empathy are running damn short. Have a look http://www.simplypsychology.org/maslow.html

    Then someone calls you a "bigot" or "racist", yep that really helped. This whole mess is made up of complex interactions and problems that seem to get ignored and by passed on the road to be righteous.

    I think it's time to start dealing with the issues leading to the end problem rather than preach.

    IMO
    Last edited by Thomas Hinderks; 10-02-2017 at 04:51 PM.

  57. #657

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    it blows my mind how our govt can swing into action and rescue so many refugees with next to no thought yet they cant get more important matters up and running over the course of many years.

    Deal with our unemployment and deal with our own issues in AB before jumping to the rescue because it makes you look good.

    Look how quickly spear hunting was banned from backlash online.. yet our govt drags their feet on so many othet issues that get ignored all the time.

    I also agree with the one poster that said if your busy defending this syrian refugee loser youve got issues. Think of his crime and ask yourself why you should be defending him.

  58. #658

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    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211 View Post
    it blows my mind how our govt can swing into action and rescue so many refugees with next to no thought yet they cant get more important matters up and running over the course of many years.

    Deal with our unemployment and deal with our own issues in AB before jumping to the rescue because it makes you look good.

    Look how quickly spear hunting was banned from backlash online.. yet our govt drags their feet on so many othet issues that get ignored all the time.

    I also agree with the one poster that said if your busy defending this syrian refugee loser youve got issues. Think of his crime and ask yourself why you should be defending him.
    Who's defending him? People are either treating him as an individual that allegedly is the "author of his own misfortune", or as a victim of trama and primitive cultural upbringing and hence part of a bigger group with similar inclinations. The latter being generalizable to other refugees coming from similar circumstances but likely to diminish over say five years post conflict - but until an acceptable time span has passed, should be treated with greater vetting and possibly barred entry to Canada, despite any lack of evidence beyond the obvious war torn country syndrome(s).
    Last edited by KC; 10-02-2017 at 06:23 PM.

  59. #659

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Hinderks View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    As evidenced from here, perspective is hardly relevant anymore, when the rabble see "Syrian" and start talking about deportations for "rape." And rabbling against the CBC for not mentioning that the guy is Syrian right away as though it's a lefty elite cover-up.

    This makes some people happy.
    As evidenced here ... there are multiple perspectives, it's just everyone wants to rail theirs is right and generally refuse to acknowledge where the other's perspective comes from.
    As seen here.

    Some of those that consider themselves "better than that" write off others that have "real concerns" from the information fed to them. It's not just this issue ether.

    Most people do not spend their day on the internet. Work, kids, sports, lives. They catch the mainstream news radio or TV that fits their schedule and take it at "face value". That alone drives fears.

    Now add in other fears ... reported on 630 not 15 minutes ago unemployment up to 8.8% in Edmonton, 25,000 jobs lost in January in Alberta, those finding work only finding part time.

    Then take the time to realize that right now in Province there are +/- 100,000 unemployed people in the trackable system, most "Talk show Expert guests" are pegging it around 200,000 total (counting those that have fallen out of the system, contracts and related) and the untracked number that are under-employed and trying to figure out how to pay the bills. Now the Premier comes along saying " Justin buddy Alberta will take more people".

    Fear on fear add up and if you're on the bottom 2 levels of "Maslow's hierarchy of needs" compassion and empathy are running damn short. Have a look http://www.simplypsychology.org/maslow.html

    Then someone calls you a "bigot" or "racist", yep that really helped. This whole mess is made up of complex interactions and problems that seem to get ignored and by passed on the road to be righteous.

    I think it's time to start dealing with the issues leading to the end problem rather than preach.

    IMO
    To many people to quick in calling out people for having an opinion on refugees/immigrants. A few weeks back I happened to say that I did not blame Trump for vetting immigrants. Well, the usual suspects up in arms calling me racist and what have you. Immigrants/refugees should always be vetted. Not just for what they may or may not do but for illnesses etc. Nobody wants refugees who may have TB or other contagious ailments etc. entering a country without being fully checked by a complete medical, x-rays included. Most people would err on the side of caution rather than get something wrong. The more desperate the refugees the more likely they will be deceptive to gain entry. By deceptive that could mean holding back information that is relevant. A person may not necessarily by lying but they are not being on the up and up either. I don't know why during all this mass exodus out of Syria etc. the question was not asked of able bodied men/women that if they were armed and trained would they stay behind and defend or fight for their country. Surely as much could have been spent on weapons as has been spent of the re-settlement of thousands.
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  60. #660

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Hinderks View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    As evidenced from here, perspective is hardly relevant anymore, when the rabble see "Syrian" and start talking about deportations for "rape." And rabbling against the CBC for not mentioning that the guy is Syrian right away as though it's a lefty elite cover-up.

    This makes some people happy.
    As evidenced here ... there are multiple perspectives, it's just everyone wants to rail theirs is right and generally refuse to acknowledge where the other's perspective comes from.
    As seen here.

    Some of those that consider themselves "better than that" write off others that have "real concerns" from the information fed to them. It's not just this issue ether.

    Most people do not spend their day on the internet. Work, kids, sports, lives. They catch the mainstream news radio or TV that fits their schedule and take it at "face value". That alone drives fears.

    Now add in other fears ... reported on 630 not 15 minutes ago unemployment up to 8.8% in Edmonton, 25,000 jobs lost in January in Alberta, those finding work only finding part time.

    Then take the time to realize that right now in Province there are +/- 100,000 unemployed people in the trackable system, most "Talk show Expert guests" are pegging it around 200,000 total (counting those that have fallen out of the system, contracts and related) and the untracked number that are under-employed and trying to figure out how to pay the bills. Now the Premier comes along saying " Justin buddy Alberta will take more people".

    Fear on fear add up and if you're on the bottom 2 levels of "Maslow's hierarchy of needs" compassion and empathy are running damn short. Have a look http://www.simplypsychology.org/maslow.html

    Then someone calls you a "bigot" or "racist", yep that really helped. This whole mess is made up of complex interactions and problems that seem to get ignored and by passed on the road to be righteous.

    I think it's time to start dealing with the issues leading to the end problem rather than preach.

    IMO
    To many people to quick in calling out people for having an opinion on refugees/immigrants. A few weeks back I happened to say that I did not blame Trump for vetting immigrants. Well, the usual suspects up in arms calling me racist and what have you. Immigrants/refugees should always be vetted. Not just for what they may or may not do but for illnesses etc. Nobody wants refugees who may have TB or other contagious ailments etc. entering a country without being fully checked by a complete medical, x-rays included. Most people would err on the side of caution rather than get something wrong. The more desperate the refugees the more likely they will be deceptive to gain entry. By deceptive that could mean holding back information that is relevant. A person may not necessarily by lying but they are not being on the up and up either. I don't know why during all this mass exodus out of Syria etc. the question was not asked of able bodied men/women that if they were armed and trained would they stay behind and defend or fight for their country. Surely as much could have been spent on weapons as has been spent of the re-settlement of thousands.
    I agree on the vetting but sure wonder how any vetting of refugees can eliminate all risk. We can't even keep bad apples out of our police force, politics, you name it, when all records and relationships are intact and easily verifiable. Vetting people running from invaders and bombed out cities has to be near impossible. (Like taking in evacuees from any disaster, it's a bit of an act of faith that they will appreciate the assistance so much that they won't engage in bad and despicable activities that they might otherwise have done on home ground).

    As for arming them where they are. That much more direct intervention is a whole new can of worms that can escalate to bringing our countries direct conflict.
    Last edited by KC; 10-02-2017 at 08:05 PM.

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    The West Edmonton Mall incident aside, I think the biggest problem is that the government has fallen down in their support of Syrian integration into society. I'm not talking about cultural issues, I'm talking about the basics. CBC has reported the various problems, and news articles along the same theme can easily be googled...

    http://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/w...-cold-reality/

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...-say-1.3531396

    I've heard reports that some of the adults who arrived last January have only now been put into English Languages courses. This was from various sources told to me in private conversations. I have no reason to doubt their claims but cannot substantiate them. I doubt that the agencies involved would admit to that. But one year? That's inexcusable.

    As far as Soleiman Hajj Soleiman, who knows what his issues are. Does he deserve to be deported? I don't know. Does the Syrian refugee community deserve to get painted with the same brush? No. No. No. My thinking is that the support agencies need to quit deflecting blame and take this seriously. I do not want to overplay, or underplay, what happened to those girls, but I believe that examining the possibility of utilizing restorative justice would be a better solution than simply throwing this man back on a flight to wherethehellever.

    But in the bigger picture, feel good talk about accepting refugees needs some real walking support, and I'm doubtful that is happening. They need to learn the lay of the land, and instruction in English language and Canadian sensibilities would be a great start.
    Last edited by BoyleStreetBoy; 10-02-2017 at 07:59 PM.
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  62. #662

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    On the case of the WEM incident. The guy is a creep, being a Syrian refugee is just an aside line. Unfortunately creeps come in all nationalities. I would be very concerned about his own six children. I hope Social Services is looking into that Syrian refugees or not those kids need protecting. I don't know what supports were giving to refugees in the past. Did the wave of Vietnamese refugees get English/French classes, lots of support from church groups etc. Did they find it hard to assimilate etc. If so, were any lessons learned from them.
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  63. #663

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    You make a point that I was going to bring up. Nobody helped my parents when they arrived other than a few contacts they had. On the second day they arrived my dad already found a job in a slow economy and after the immigration office told him there were no jobs.

    I remember the Vietnamese boat refugees and immigrants from India, Africa, Serbia and Bosnia to name a few and how they had to make their own way without the outpouring of support.


    All along they were discriminated against and now are fine Canadian citizens and we are proud that they are here and that they succeeded.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    I remember the Vietnamese boat refugees and immigrants from India, Africa, Serbia and Bosnia to name a few and how they had to make their own way without the outpouring of support.
    There have been organizations in place to help with all the above refugee groups who came to Canada from the late 1970's into the 1990's. Organizations like the Mennonite Center For Newcomers and just about every Church group in Canada were involved. The Alberta School system has had English language programs for school age newcomers since the early 1980's. A far cry from the 1960's when they just would put immigrant children into a classroom full of anglophones.

    To put it into context, however, there were 100, 000 Vietnamese refugees welcomed to Canada between 1975 and 1992.

    https://humanrights.ca/blog/vietnamese-refugees-canada

    We've had 40, 081 Syrians settled in Canada in just over a year.

    http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/refugee...milestones.asp

    The groups that made their own way with very little support were mainly in the 1950's to the 1970's. Some of the posters here have testified to that, and most of us have a friend or family member who shared that experience.
    ˙
    ...From this ragged handful of tents and cabins one day will rise a city...

  65. #665

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    I remember the Vietnamese boat refugees and immigrants from India, Africa, Serbia and Bosnia to name a few and how they had to make their own way without the outpouring of support.
    That's not really correct. There was support: from churches, private individuals, charity organizations, etc. There wasn't specific "government program" support like we (are supposed to?) have now.

    Being an avid news-follower I also read about refugee transgressions for years after. The names of young men that fought other young men started to change. Friends that were in the bar business started to complain about diferent bad apples, often Vietnamese. These were the kids of refugees, who has spent their very-early formative years in camps, for 2 or 3 years. Camps that I cannot even comprehend, but plenty of pictures show what sh*tholes they were; better than dying though.

    Eventually the latest wave will assimilate as did the others, after the mental/emotional scarring has passed. The big difference between the prior waves and the latest one is that the earlier waves also weren't considered to be "the enemy" like the recent wave is - they were getting out of a localized bad situation that was always "over there." None of them was doing bad stuff "over here." The latest wave has been pre-judged because of the actions of their peers that have affected us.

    The next-big difference is that now there's much more formal government, and unfortunately political, involvement. That opens a lot more mouths when things sometimes go bad, and as is human nature, that makes things look a lot worse.
    I feel in no way entitled to your opinion...

  66. #666

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    One of my coworkers was exactly like you described. 16 years old in a war torn Vietnam and then on a boat and two years in a Thai refugee camp. Worked with him for 27 years.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  67. #667

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Funny, I didn't see any of that when I was in Sweden in December, nor has my Swedish wife, nor my Swedish in-laws, nor my Swedish friends. When I brought up how the (alt-) right wing portrays immigration/refugees in Sweden they were aghast.
    Do all of the people you know in Sweden hear (or know) about the alarming increase in grenade attacks over the last few years?

    Just ran across this today (it's a Wikipedia article, but every incident is cited):


    According to Swedish police, the use of hand grenades in crime is unprecedented in all comparable European and non-European countries, and the only countries with similar characteristics are those with warlike conditions.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...acks_in_Sweden

  68. #668

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    I think this is the news piece Trump was referring when he said about the incident in Sweden. It's more or less stating that the Swedish government is covering up crimes (including rapes etc) committed by refugees and the press is trying to get to the bottom of it. Fox News mentioned it. http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/...-violent-crime
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

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