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Thread: Scotia Place | Renovation

  1. #1

    Default Scotia Place | Renovation

    It's happening. Hopefully it's tasteful. I'll be sad to see the gold glass go, indicative of a period of Edmonton's history:

    Reference ID: Job No 173742248-001
    Description: To construct exterior alterations and an addition to Scotia Place (replacing glass on towers and increasing size of entrance onto Jasper Avenue).
    Location: 10060 - JASPER AVENUE NW
    Plan 8221723 Lot A
    10060 - JASPER AVENUE NW
    Plan 8221723 Lot C
    10060 - JASPER AVENUE NW
    Plan 8221723 Lot B
    Applicant: KASIAN
    Status: On Hold
    Create Date: 6/5/2015 10:21:26 AM
    Neighbourhood: DOWNTOWN
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    Good to see, interested to see what color they change the glass to and how the street entrances are done.

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    I do hope they keep the gold color to the glass, it does add some visual warmth to downtown, especially in the winter.

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    Not gonna be gold.

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    so sad, love the gold
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    Grey or blue i have heard
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    changing the gold is a mistake. those buildings look great. they really stand out. everyone else is grey and blue....

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    ^agree agree agree. I suppose they are replacing the glass for reasons other than esthetics. I think it would be a huge mistake to change the colour.

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    That posting says "on hold" not they are going to proceed...

  10. #10

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    The two things I dislike about Scotia Place are the exposed cement blocks on top of each tower and the podium. Hopefully those two things will be improved.

    I remember seeing the original rendering from the late seventies, if I remember correctly the towers did not have the cement blocks on top, the Scotia sign was on the side of the tower. It looked better than what they ended up doing. If anyone has a copy of that old rendering please post it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by buildings View Post
    ^agree agree agree. I suppose they are replacing the glass for reasons other than esthetics. I think it would be a huge mistake to change the colour.
    Both aesthetics and performance.
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    I have heard from building management that it is proceeding and the gold is gone. Last rendering I saw was a combination of blue/grey. It looked dynamic, but I too will admit I will miss the gold...

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    Did someone mention white in the past? That could be really neat combined with clear...

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    sad trombone

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    That's a building I actually like the look of. I hope they don't wreck it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EveB View Post
    That's a building I actually like the look of. I hope they don't wreck it.
    If we're lucky it'll be the same designed as the Chateau Lacombe refacing.

  17. #17

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    aww why they have to change such an iconic colour. Guess we'll just have to look at Energy Place to get our fill of gold cladding

  18. #18

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    Never liked this building. Always thought the Gold colored glass was a lame attempt to make up for another horrible piece of bland box towers foisted on Edmonton in the Good nuff stage of things here.

    "Indicative of a period of Edmonton's history" bleh, one I would rather have scraped off the landscape and with the ground disinfected so as not to contaminate any replacement.

    Remove the glass? Remove the whole damn thing with dynamite and a complete do over. If I never saw this building again would never miss it. Most unwelcoming building of its kind on Jasper. Virtually nothing about the building drew one in. Always avoided it and not sure if its something feng shui oriented but this building just said stay away to me. probably something about the awful precast concrete and ground level that caused one to immediately avert eyes and not even bother looking much further. If buildings make first impressions this one has always been utter failure at first glance. Next to the TD towers and former AGT towers the worst towers in Edmonton that should just NOT be on our skyline at all and are hopefully blocked out at least in the near future. Although given its location Scotia will always be a sorepoint of Jasper Ave.
    Last edited by Replacement; 10-06-2015 at 06:12 PM.
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    ^for real? Over exaggerate much? This is far from the worst offender.

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    Quote Originally Posted by etownboarder View Post
    ^for real? Over exaggerate much? This is far from the worst offender.
    He is just up to his usual devils advocate. Replacement counts the likes against the unlikes if everone likes something he has to hyperbole why he does not . Pulls same crap on hf boards all the time rather tiresome tbh.
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Grey or blue i have heard

    You mean North vs South

  22. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rseven View Post
    The two things I dislike about Scotia Place are the exposed cement blocks on top of each tower and the podium. Hopefully those two things will be improved.

    I remember seeing the original rendering from the late seventies, if I remember correctly the towers did not have the cement blocks on top, the Scotia sign was on the side of the tower. It looked better than what they ended up doing. If anyone has a copy of that old rendering please post it.
    Yeah, big mistake to have the recessed mechanical on the roofs. Even better would have been to combine the two towers into one good tower. That would have been a building with presence. Very difficult to get a decent shot of the buildings as is. (As it will also be to see KR.)

    Regardless, I'll miss the gold.


    ^ Newspaper ad photo; no recessed top.

    [url=https://flic.kr/p/utRBZn]






    ^ Silver cladding simulation.

  23. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by buildthemhigh View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by etownboarder View Post
    ^for real? Over exaggerate much? This is far from the worst offender.
    He is just up to his usual devils advocate. Replacement counts the likes against the unlikes if everone likes something he has to hyperbole why he does not . Pulls same crap on hf boards all the time rather tiresome tbh.
    Never liked the building and why would I? Scotia Place communicates poorly at street level and what kind of Eastern Block architecture puts entire precast concrete wrap on street level of the Main street in a cities downtown.
    Sidewalks are where people live and exist. This building ENTIRELY fails at street level where its at. Maybe if I lived in a helicopter I'd have a different opinion. Could never understand the architectural statement here. Why make the street front, platform, that ugly. I think its a valid question and its been raised before. I dare say its on of the main criticisms of the build is how awful it interacts on our main street.
    Last edited by Replacement; 10-06-2015 at 10:06 PM.
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  24. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by etownboarder View Post
    ^for real? Over exaggerate much? This is far from the worst offender.
    Obviously a playful rant. But I detest this design. Always thought it was really odd.

    Glass box towers. Only difference being gold. This is ugly as the TD towers. Built in a pretty depressing time for Edmonton where we were seeing dreck, unimaginative box designs like this.

    That said I don't get what this design was trying to do. What is the purpose of an inner part between the two towers with the design seemingly enclosing around a central spot? I'm not sure what the designer was going for with that or anything in it. Just doesn't speak to me I guess. As mentioned the mechanical boxes on the roof are lol as well. This whole design save for the gold glass is pretty ugly. Which I think will be even more evident when they take the gold glass away. I really do feel as if the gold glass kind of kept people from considering the design problems with this building.

    With the Blue glass render it manages to be uglier than the TD towers which is no small feat.

    Like I said just demolish, rebuild. Nothing in this design is worth salvaging. Jasper Ave deserves much better.
    Last edited by Replacement; 10-06-2015 at 10:29 PM.
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    Well we all know that the odds of Scotia being torn down is as likely that we will vote Jim Prentice as our new mayor. I mainly hope that they will improve the interaction with the street on all the sides, especially on RHW.
    LRT is our future, time to push forward.

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    This is 95% glazing change, 5% changing the entrances only. Nothing else will change with THIS project. (Not saying they couldn't do something else in the future)

  27. #27

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    I'll miss the gold.
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  29. #29

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    I wonder if they'll be using any of the newer technologies... i.e. thin film PV or the like... Not likely, but would be cool if they did.

    http://www.architectmagazine.com/tec...technologies_o

    While solar panels have been integrated into building structures for years, one of the newest energy-producing technologies is thin-film photovoltaics (PVs). Unlike other glass coatings that only reduce energy consumption in buildings, thin-film PVs can also harvest solar energy.

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    Are they doing this to all three of the scotia towers or just one of them?

  31. #31

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    Practically all of the so-sad types on here have no right whatever to make a single noise about this.

    You creeps are the ones that until now have demanded blue and green glass EVERYWHERE. Well, stick it.

    Or, rather, keep panting in glee at this latest abortion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GranaryMan View Post
    Are they doing this to all three of the scotia towers or just one of them?
    All three.

  33. #33

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    Apologize in advance for this, and I can be obsessive, but just wondering if anybody has more input on the revised design elements of Scotia place. To me it seems as if something that was originally built with some confusion after a lot of changes. I know there were design changes, its been mentioned in the thread, but not all of the changes to the original design are specified.

    The design doesn't make sense. 3 towers around an enclosed area would make sense if this was a ground level courtyard in the middle. Yet this center area in this build is a 5th floor roof nonspace to my knowledge.

    Its seems as if this build would be better viewed from within.

    Was there original plans to have a courtyard there in the middle?

    The design would make more sense if it was 3 towers at ground level with an inner area sheltered from most wind that people could go to. The designe would be more inviting that way imo.

    just curious if anybody could elaborate it would be appreciated.
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  34. #34

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    There will be lots of competition to attract new tenants, so I guess they are doing what they think they need to do to make it more appealing.

    Don't forget a lot of the down town office towers that currently house City workers, will be losing them once the new Katz office tower is completed. On top of that, other than the Katz building, there are other new office buildings coming along too.

    Will be an interesting couple of years to see the cost of leasing office space down town.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AShetsen View Post
    Practically all of the so-sad types on here have no right whatever to make a single noise about this.

    You creeps are the ones that until now have demanded blue and green glass EVERYWHERE. Well, stick it.

    Or, rather, keep panting in glee at this latest abortion.
    Are you off your meds?
    Calm down the rhetoric a bit.

  36. #36

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    HA! Pretty sure he is never on them. Thank odin for ignore lists.

  37. #37

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    [QUOTE=Rseven;690790]The two things I dislike about Scotia Place are the exposed cement blocks on top of each tower and the podium. Hopefully those two things will be improved.

    I remember seeing the original rendering from the late seventies, if I remember correctly the towers did not have the cement blocks on top, the Scotia sign was on the side of the tower. It looked better than what they ended up doing. If anyone has a copy of that old rendering please post it.[/QUOTE/]

    You are correct. There was a model of the towers that I saw that had the concrete panels all done up in gold and I think they got cheap in the final build. Hopefully, that will change if it ever gets redone.

    My preference would be to see some other feature on top of the towers like some recessed sections creating a nice cap versus just a skinny grey box in the center.

    They could do something really nice if they wanted to with these towers.

  38. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spill View Post


    ^ Newspaper ad photo; no recessed top.
    ^This image Spill shared shows what it was originally suppose to be like, which looks much nicer with the top masked

  39. #39

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    Gold, eww. Like gold pick up trucks screem senion citizen.

    Mind you, if you want to buy gold, Scotia Mocata operates a gold and silver bullion counter and vault from this location.

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    Our new Reimagine magazine is out with an article on Scotia.

    http://manascisaac.com/reimagine-magazine-third-issue/
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  41. #41

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    ^ Interesting. It would be wonderful to have rooftop amenities. I assume though that re-cladding plans are already well underway.

    (Not sure why the author thought Scotia was once the city's tallest, though.)

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    Downtown buildings getting upgrades
    http://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/video?cli...ylistPageNum=1

    Featured:
    - Chateau Lacombe
    - 9Triple8 Jasper
    - Scotia Place
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Downtown buildings getting upgrades
    http://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/video?cli...ylistPageNum=1

    Featured:
    - Chateau Lacombe
    - 9Triple8 Jasper
    - Scotia Place
    Amazing what competition will do....

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    ^oh cool. Looks good actually.

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    "LED light fixtures" I like that!

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    I love tasteful LED light features on towers like this. When I was in Dallas back in May I got a kick out of how most of their towers in their downtown had some sort of lighting feature. Some of them were really quite cool.
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    Difficult to really judge, but first glance I think it looks worse.
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    Very hard to tell.
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    If its not broken dont try and fix it

  51. #51

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    I only care about the podium, which is also hard to tell.

    Note- I believe Scotia Centre with both its towers plus podium represents possibly more floorspace than Chateau, Jacobs, KRP combined. A large project in the Edmonton scale.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rico View Post
    If its not broken dont try and fix it
    It is broken (worn) hence the new glass.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rico View Post
    If its not broken dont try and fix it
    Ummm, that is a bad business strategy in office accommodations.

    Clients are demanding son of a guns. Appearances and various things that seem frivolous do matter when companies have cash to spend on rent. Which to some degree is every client.. even the frugal ones.
    Last edited by nick5150; 10-07-2015 at 02:27 PM.

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    Lol whatever

  55. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rico View Post
    Lol whatever
    In most re-skins heat performance is cited, and I wouldn't be surprised if that were the case here as well. We're talking 3.5 decades-old window technology.

    And I think the podium was dysfunctionally human-repellant (i.e. "Broken") since 1980. I don't know how that's going to be addressed, but i'd imagine if it results in steady and profitable retail tenancy worthy of Rice Howard Way the landlord should see value.
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    The CTV piece did say the new skinning will be way more energy efficient
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    The new glazing will cost millions (probably over $10M), so there's no way they are doing this for any reason other than to stop water inflitration, to improve visibility (you can see the fogged up glass now on the building where the seal has been lost) and energy efficiency. The look of the building is contemplated only because you HAVE to bite the bullet and undertake such a huge capital cost due to operational reasons.

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    I dont disagree. Its just kind of an emotional thing for me honestly. I have loved that building since I was little kid, will be sad to see it get turned into some ordinary skyscraper, if they kept the gold I could get over it

  59. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by ridgeman View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Downtown buildings getting upgrades
    http://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/video?cli...ylistPageNum=1

    Featured:
    - Chateau Lacombe
    - 9Triple8 Jasper
    - Scotia Place
    Amazing what competition will do....
    You mean the real environment of commerce?l For nearly four decades, everyone in this city had it easy, so not much had to be done.

  60. #60

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    Looks exactly the same, but blue. Which is worse IMO...
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  61. #61

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    Any updates or word on when this will start?

  62. #62

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    From May 19, 2016. No change yet, apparently. I always regret that they didn't stick the two towers together to make one tall one.




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    Those make me lament the potential loss of the gold even more.
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    The gold would have kept these two towers unique looking.
    LRT is our future, time to push forward.

  65. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spill View Post
    From May 19, 2016. No change yet, apparently. I always regret that they didn't stick the two towers together to make one tall one.
    There was this airport thing, you see...
    Let's make Edmonton better.

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    Out with the gold, in with the blue as Scotia Place plans major exterior renovations

    http://edmontonjournal.com/business/...or-renovations

    The twin towers of Scotia Place are about to undergo a facelift that will see their golden exteriors replaced primarily with blue-tinged reflective glass, Glen Scheuerman, regional general manager of Morguard Investments Ltd., said Tuesday.

    The move, which will give tenants more natural light and allow a wider spectrum of colour, is part of a $22-million overhaul that will also see upgrades to the three main entrances.

    “The market is changing, the skyline is changing, and we want to be part of that changing skyline,” said Scheuerman, referring to the new office towers under construction downtown.

    “We’re looking toward the future. It’s an evolving market, and we need to do this work to transform Scotia Place to a new Scotia Place, to compete with the new product that’s coming to Edmonton.”

    The installation of more than 13,000 pale blue glass panels will start in October and take about 18 months, creating the equivalent of 32 full-time jobs.

    The vacancy rate is lower than the downtown average and rents are cheaper than at similar buildings, he said.

    Stewart Inglis of Kasian Architecture, the lead architect for the project, described Scotia Place as an iconic development, but said the gold exterior “has some issues” he didn’t expand on.

    “When you see the new design and what it does for the Edmonton skyline and Scotia Place, we think it is the right choice.”
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    Sweet. I was wondering what was happening with this one. I like the gold myself, but look forward to seeing it cleaned up with the blue glass too. I wonder what they plan on doing with the three entrances mentioned in the article.

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    I really dislike the loss of the old, but understand the need to Reimagine.
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    I really dislike the loss of the old, but understand the need to Reimagine.
    You mean renovate...

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    Quote Originally Posted by DanC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    I really dislike the loss of the old, but understand the need to Reimagine.
    You mean renovate...




    The Gold is Classic. However the new Blue is somewhat generic and lacks pop. Especially since they are not changing the podium to match the Glazing. This is a miss.

  71. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by etownboarder View Post
    Sweet. I was wondering what was happening with this one. I like the gold myself, but look forward to seeing it cleaned up with the blue glass too. I wonder what they plan on doing with the three entrances mentioned in the article.
    Looks like the entrances are going to be a little sleeker and less blocky, with a different font.

    Was hoping for some kind of reconfiguration of the podium myself, but it doesn't look like we get there. This one is for the office tenants:

    • Better interior light
    • Much greater energy performance
    • Tower rebrand
    Let's make Edmonton better.

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    "Modern silver reflective glass will be used on the leading edge of the towers with complimentary pacific blue reflective glass panels on all other sides," said Stewart Inglis, Consulting Principal at Kasian. "The silver glass panels are a new feature on the leading edge and will act as a visual identification of the building. The silver panels will be illuminated at night with horizontal LED lights in a modern, sophisticated pattern to give it prominence on the skyline."

    http://www.morguard.com/news-knowledge/posts/modernization-scotia-place-edmonton#sthash.3zv8qw2S.dpuf"

    In other Morguard news in Edmonton:

    http://www.morguard.com/news-knowled...r-conservation

    http://www.morguard.com/search_/page...spx?k=Edmonton
    Last edited by EdmTrekker; 31-08-2016 at 10:32 AM.

  73. #73

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    13,000 glass panels! What happens to the old ones?

    I assume the gold could be recovered somehow.



    I guess I assume wrong. Probably well under a million dollars in gold in those windows anyway.
    Gold dust in SGI building likely hard to recover, architect says
    2012

    Youck admitted he did not have expertise in glass manufacturing or recycling, but did not think it would be practical to try and recover the gold.

    "If you think that you've got to melt down 38,000 square feet of glass I imagine it would take considerable effort," he said.

    Youck said the use of gold in glass, while an advanced technique, is not very common.

    He said regular glass, with specialized coatings, can achieve the desired savings in energy.

    There is also a drawback to gold, he said.

    "Gold actually stops an awful lot of the visible light from entering the building," he said. "It tends to make things look very dark."



    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskat...says-1.1169979

    Last edited by KC; 31-08-2016 at 10:28 AM.

  74. #74
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    I wonder if they will be doing much updates inside the building. I think some changes in lighting and other small changes could really enhance the common area. I know it's been asked before but will the be any underground connection to KR building?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmcowboy11 View Post
    I know it's been asked before but will the be any underground connection to KR building?
    Yes

  76. #76

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    Would be pretty cool to get a panel of that glass tho. I wonder where it will all end up?
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  77. #77
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    Noticed a few panels up on the Jasper Ave side of the building half way up.

  78. #78

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    Actually looks quite sharp. I really loved the gold as it was unique but this will also look very nice when done. Especially with the LED effects mentioned. Can't wait to see it lit when finished.

  80. #80

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    I wonder why they're only lighting the West side.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  81. #81

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    Any more progress on this?

  82. #82

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    ^

    Quote Originally Posted by Edmcowboy11 View Post
    I know it's been asked before but will the be any underground connection to KR building?
    This is now open. Underground, from the Scotia food court.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  83. #83

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    173742248-005
    25-Oct-2016
    10060 - JASPER AVENUE NW
    Plan 8221723 Lot A
    10060 - JASPER AVENUE NW
    Plan 8221723 Lot C
    10060 - JASPER AVENUE NW
    Plan 8221723 Lot B

    To construct exterior alterations to an existing building (glazing replacement on towers 1 and 2) - Scotia Place - Phase 2.

    PCL CONSTRUCTION MANAGEMENT INC

  84. #84

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    173742248-006
    31-Oct-2016
    10060 - JASPER AVENUE NW
    Plan 8221723 Lot A
    10060 - JASPER AVENUE NW
    Plan 8221723 Lot C
    10060 - JASPER AVENUE NW
    Plan 8221723 Lot B

    To construct a temporary COVERED WALKWAY HOARDING for predestrian protection NOV1/16 TILL FEB1/18 ( glazing replacement) - Scotia Place.

    PCL CONSTRUCTION MANAGEMENT INC

  85. #85
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    Some strips of blue clearly visible today on the upper floors of the south face of the taller tower. Both windows and opaque panels have been installed. Although I loved the gold, it looks like the blue is going to be very distinctive too, a unique look.

  86. #86

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    I was just there, didn't look up. Lol.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  87. #87

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    I looked up today:

    Let's make Edmonton better.

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    Cool. Thanks. Will look nice but I will definitely miss the gold. That being said, with the skyline getting ever higher, you can't really see it from as many angles anymore.

  89. #89

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    I'll definitely miss the exterior zing of the gold, but having been inside, i'll definitely NOT miss the dreary grey light that makes it through.

    (and you're welcome for the pic. )
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  90. #90

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    Not the best pic, but you get the idea:

    Let's make Edmonton better.

  91. #91

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    The panels they're replacing and the order with which they are doing so sure seems arbitrary!

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    You have to arrange for the building to be open to outdoors minus whatever they are doing inside to replace the panes.
    I'm sure it's a fun exercise coordinating with tenants plus deliveries plus the portion that show up damaged plus repairing any of the old bits that are in who knows what shape.
    Neat project, kind of simple on ne side because its essentially one trade/subcontractor but there is the lovely complex aspect of renoing an occupied building.

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    That's a huge change. Looks good though.

  95. #95

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    Hard to tell the shade of blue from the pics with jacked up exposure & colour balance. I'll have to check it out the next time I'm passing through.
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  96. #96

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    Wow, imagine if they kept 2 sides blue and 2 sides gold just like that... it looks amazing.

  97. #97

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Looking good, though I think I'll miss the gold, especially as all buildings transition to the same look.

    Real gold often looks great, and it's so rare to see anywhere.



    As an aside, way aside, in London there's a gold maple leaf representing Canada. After seeing that, I've always thought I should get a durable maple leaf, cover it in gold leaf and donate it to the City for some downtown structure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nosepass2 View Post
    Wow, imagine if they kept 2 sides blue and 2 sides gold just like that... it looks amazing.
    I agree actually, not just with this, but the idea applied to other buildings could look incredibly sharp...

  99. #99

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    The gold adds such a warm feeling to the otherwise cold blue of all the new towers. I like the new towers, but I like the variety even more.
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  100. #100
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    Wow...2 different sides of the spectrum. That would look like Hell. Gold and Blue??? Where in the Wide World of Sports have you or anyone seen this done or liked it lol.

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