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Thread: The Fall of the Alberta P.C's...........

  1. #1

    Default The Fall of the Alberta P.C's...........

    Now that the Alberta PC's have been shown the door what do you think was the reason(s) for their demise. Did it start with Redford or before that. Did the campaign Prentice ran play a part.
    At what point did the ship start sinking to the point it could not be saved.
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

  2. #2

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    They became arrogant trash who catered to the plutocrats and only them.

    They dumped Stelmach, he was just too decent a man, and that was the beginning of the end.

    But the corruption had already set in during the wane of the Lougheed years. A long, long time ago. That was the end of the beginning.

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    Now that the Alberta PC's have been shown the door what do you think was the reason(s) for their demise. Did it start with Redford or before that.
    It was before that. People wanted a change with the Redford election, but the WR proved themselves unelectable / untrustworthy due to the social conservaties / bozo stuff. This pushed the left / center back into the PC's. Most didn't actually want the PC's but there was no alternative. Notley by contrast to Smith, has run a very solid campaign.

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    A combination of both.WR is this provinces future.

  5. #5

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    ^ And that is scary stuff
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  6. #6

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    ^It is scary because if the WRP makes it to power they will need to become the PCs first.

    A plutocratically funded bunch of sub-criminals.

    Which of course they are not yet. But the choice is theirs.

  7. #7

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    When you think of how the billions of dollars generated by the province was squandered by the PC's it makes me wonder of what could have been.
    Prentice resigning was just the icing on the cake. He resigned last night in a cavernous room of about 20 people. A room that was reserved for a party victory. They interviewed a party hack and he said that on the campaign trail they felt the winds of change. I never felt Grim Jim was that enthusiastic about being premier of this province. Never really seemed to have his heart in it. Wonder who's choice it was to approach him in the first place. Then to resign right after the election just goes to show what he is made of.
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

  8. #8
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    ^^No, they could, possibly, become a centre-right party without the baggage or the oligarchy and succeed, at least for a while. It would require a further collapse of the PCs and a shift toward the middle, and even then would most likely become a government of the corporations within a few years.

    Even governments for the citizens eventually become corrupted, but the process is so much faster when citizens have been reduced to taxpayers before they even start.

  9. #9

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    ^I think all the WR has to do, is muffle / get rid of the social conservative side of the party, and they are shoe in for the next election (unless Notley's crew surprise me). PC's will disapear.

  10. #10

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    ^^Does it really matter if the WRP revert to plutocracy before or soon after gaining power?

    The Socreds slid right for thirty-six years, and eventually lost power. But they remained non-plutocratic the whole time -- Manning's departure quote about the new money in Calgary is instructive -- and for that they retain my respect.

    For the WRP to move centre-right they'd need to merge with the Liberals and the AP. I just can't see that happening, not with the likes of posters 3 and 4 forming their bedrock support. But I can very easily see the WRP going down the path of corruption Jimbo's just vacated.

  11. #11

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    PC's might cross the floor to the Wild Rose. That would be poetic justice. The once mighty PC's are just an afterthought now and maybe for ever more.
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

  12. #12

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    ^word is Prentice was thinking of jumping to the NDP

    http://news.nationalpost.com/full-co...ay-youre-drunk

    And the initial reaction of defeated premier Jim Prentice? That too can only be speculated on. “OK, I lost,” he might have said. “So how does this work: do I have to wear an NDP jersey at the next cabinet meeting? No? What, then?”

    At least Prentice did not take to a podium to announce he was joining the NDP, an event that by current Alberta political standards might rate as a page-three item. Instead he resigned his Calgary-Foothills seat before the ballot counting was even finished: so quickly they could simply have swung the poll doors back open and just kept going. Or it could have been handled Survivor-style with Prentice whipping out his immunity idol so votes cast for him would not count.

  13. #13

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    Rats leaving a sinking ship. People have been crossing the floor so much that they have to replace the carpets. Not due to wear but all the sh** they drag along.
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  14. #14

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    Prentice going to the NDP, never. He PC Federally and Provincial.
    As for the PC's I think they shot themselves in the foot way to often in the last few years. Too many career politicians just treading water. The last round of resignations (Horne, Hancock etc) either did not want to work under Prentice or seen the writing on the wall or their golden handshakes were due. Redford managed to see the world on or dime and pad her resume (fat lot of good that did for her). She did not move this province forward in any way whatsoever.
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    I never felt Grim Jim was that enthusiastic about being premier of this province. Never really seemed to have his heart in it. Wonder who's choice it was to approach him in the first place. Then to resign right after the election just goes to show what he is made of.
    You are correct; it is the federal Conservative Party leadership that Mr. Prentice covets. The only way he was going to knock off Peter MacKay as the heir apparent was to put in some time as party leader somewhere else.

    Obviously this is a huge setback for him; the scale of last night's loss will surely spook the Conservative base.

  16. #16

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    Prentice did say last night he was leaving public life. Maybe he will not pursue another political career. Stick with being on the board of some bank maybe.
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    Prentice going to the NDP, never. He PC Federally and Provincial.
    its a joke.

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    Why we might have seen the last of the Alberta PCs

    Duane Bratt
    Finally, the NDP is expected to conduct a thorough audit of Alberta’s books. I predict that all sorts of surprises will emerge of things that the PCs have kept hidden while they were in government. This will continue to generate political stories and maintain the disgust that many voters currently have towards the PCs.

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe...ticle24283993/
    Bring out the paper shredders before you hand the keys for the filing cabinet to the NDP
    Last edited by North Guy66; 06-05-2015 at 01:18 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    Prentice did say last night he was leaving public life. Maybe he will not pursue another political career. Stick with being on the board of some bank maybe.
    Top_Dawg can't imagine anybody running a worse campaign than Prentice and his will knots even if they deliberately tried.

    And then just as the ND wave is turning into a juggernaut, five useless butt plugs figger they'll come to his rescue only to pour a forty pounder of bourbon on an open fire.

    Gee.

    Thanks.

    With friends like these....



    Last night only solidified Prentice's renown as a proven loser.

    It's just too bad it wasn't the WR that kicked the PeeCees azz.

    But good enough.

    Top_Dawg will take it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    Prentice did say last night he was leaving public life. Maybe he will not pursue another political career. Stick with being on the board of some bank maybe.
    Yeah, who would want him for another political position? It takes a special kind of anti-talent for a Tory leader to lose an election to the freaking NDP, in ALBERTA.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    PC's might cross the floor to the Wild Rose. That would be poetic justice. The once mighty PC's are just an afterthought now and maybe for ever more.
    Jean has already stated that won't be allowed. I don't think the PC brand has gone forever, not judging the temp in other forums

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    Yeah, it will be most interesting to see if who will try to pick up the pieces.

    Top_Dawg figgers there's no way the sows and hogs who gorged themselves at the trough will want any part of the hard work of rebuilding the party.

    They were only in it for the slop.

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    one of the reason for their downfall is many Albertans weren't too happy that Tories doesn't want any corporate tax increases at all
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  24. #24

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    The PCs were in power far too long, and it had become about maintaining power above all. No ideology, no common vision, bitter in-fighting, and an overwhelming sense of entitlement and complacency did the party in this election.

    I think the party riding on both the Klein-era populism and damage, peaked at Stelmach and declined from there.
    Last edited by Snake Eyes; 06-05-2015 at 02:10 PM.

  25. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by AShetsen View Post
    Manning's departure quote about the new money in Calgary is instructive -- and for that they retain my respect.
    What did he say?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jagators63 View Post
    one of the reason for their downfall is many Albertans weren't too happy that Tories doesn't want any corporate tax increases at all
    I feel that way, because they pass it on to the consumer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jizzaldo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by AShetsen View Post
    Manning's departure quote about the new money in Calgary is instructive -- and for that they retain my respect.
    What did he say?
    At his 1968 retirement, this long-range thinker warned of rising health-care costs. Earlier, he recognized the potential of Peter Lougheed’s PCs and tried to merge their parties. A year before he retired, he admitted privately, “I can’t be premier of this province anymore. The new oil money in Calgary doesn’t care about the things we stand for.”

    Thought that quote is kinda vague, and it's not clear which pillars of Social Credit ideology Manning was alluding to. Social Credit in that era stood for everything from spending heaps of cash on schools and hospitals to banning movies featuring too much cleavage.

    link
    Last edited by overoceans; 06-05-2015 at 02:36 PM.

  28. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by overoceans View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jizzaldo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by AShetsen View Post
    Manning's departure quote about the new money in Calgary is instructive -- and for that they retain my respect.
    What did he say?
    At his 1968 retirement, this long-range thinker warned of rising health-care costs. Earlier, he recognized the potential of Peter Lougheed’s PCs and tried to merge their parties. A year before he retired, he admitted privately, “I can’t be premier of this province anymore. The new oil money in Calgary doesn’t care about the things we stand for.”

    Thought that quote is kinda vague, and it's not clear which pillars of Social Credit ideology Manning was alluding to. Social Credit in that era stood for everything from spending heaps of cash on schools and hospitals to banning movies featuring too much cleavage.

    link
    Thanks. Pretty interesting.

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    The fall of the PC's is pretty simple. It hits all that get too many successive mandates...you get fat, lazy, and entitled...

    ...Federal Liberals come to mind...and at least they said it out loud...that they were the "natural governing party" as they won so many times since Confederation...

    ...Alberta's dynasty(s)...

    ...long Saskatchewan runs with their NDP...

    ...the Bush v Clinton races in the US...

    ...the reality is that the slide happened pretty much at Getty. The PC's became to obsessed with being elected. What many here forget is that there were several times that the PC's were in danger...most notably to Decore's Liberals and the WRP...

    The PC's forgot how and why they were there. Once you get in too long, you lose contact with your constituents. They demonstrated quite clearly that they had lost touch with Albertans, lost contact with those who would vote, forgot that many of the PC memberships that were sold are 100% tied to their recent revolving leadership door, and that they became a complete machine.

    You saw it imploding with the Gary Mar fiasco. Jim Dinning, Ted Morton, the switch in the rules that saw Klein win...they couldn't keep it straight and that is what killed them in the end.

    They didn't listen when the electorate said to not go to the polls. They didn't listen when they were told a tough love budget was ok, but it had to be tough love for all. And worst of all, they didn't admit that they hadn't listened...and couldn't practice humility...


    Truly, enough was enough in the end. ...and for Prentice to resign as he did...to not even take his seat and work out a transition...to abandon his constituents like that...spoke volumes to what the whole province meant to the "machine"...in short...it meant nothing except entitlements...

    Funny thing...I normally had blue trucks in my possession since the mid 1980's. I recently bought a new one back in October, and a friend of mine pointed it out to me at lunch...sunset orange...fitting...looked great against the snow...
    Onward and upward

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    Quote Originally Posted by RichardS View Post
    Truly, enough was enough in the end. ...and for Prentice to resign as he did...to not even take his seat and work out a transition...to abandon his constituents like that...spoke volumes to what the whole province meant to the "machine"...in short...it meant nothing except entitlements...

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    Not sure if anyone posted this article yet, but here is a good indepth analysis of the PCs downfall, starting with Stelmach:

    Analysis: How the Alberta Progressive Conservative dynasty fell

    http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/...955/story.html
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  32. #32

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    Anyone's thoughts on Prentice not only resigning from party leadership but also as a newly elected MLA?

    I could see giving up the leadership because of the party's performance, but still, people elected him as there representative. Why quit and not fight?

  33. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Not sure if anyone posted this article yet, but here is a good indepth analysis of the PCs downfall, starting with Stelmach:

    Analysis: How the Alberta Progressive Conservative dynasty fell

    http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/...955/story.html
    PCs faced tough times under Getty too. Though I suppose, people liked the party but didn't feel that Getty performed all that well.

    Dealing with economic busts in Alberta has to be tough on leaders creating an almost a no win scenario.


    Notley is probably our Obama. Inherit a disaster that could get substantially worse and people don't appreciate any amount of effort towards lessening the degree of potential disaster. (Like the thanks a skilled surgeon must get for for saving one leg while losing the other.)


    ~
    Last edited by KC; 06-05-2015 at 03:18 PM.

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    Omg not Obama, I have no stomach for Mr Hollywood, or Mrs.

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    Yeah, Top_Dawg recalls even back then they would scapegoat and throw one of their own under the bus if it in any way threatened their place at the trough.

    Remember Connie Osterman ?

  36. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Notley is probably our Obama. Inherit a disaster that could get substantially worse and people don't appreciate any amount of effort towards lessening the degree of potential disaster. (Like the thanks a skilled surgeon must get for for saving one leg while losing the other.)
    ~
    You are defending Obama? Seriously? A guy who refuses to approve a billion dollar pipeline that will create much needed jobs (even tells lies about it), and who sends drones left right and center to accidently kill innocent people, only apologising if they are US citizens? I'm worried about Notley, but not that worried.

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    Good one moa.

    Top_Dawg can just picture Notley sending out drones to kill oil company executives.

    On Mulcair's orders.

  38. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Anyone's thoughts on Prentice not only resigning from party leadership but also as a newly elected MLA?

    I could see giving up the leadership because of the party's performance, but still, people elected him as there representative. Why quit and not fight?
    I understand why he did it, but the timing was too soon. Should have resigned as leader, but kept his seat at least until the electorate and his own party had time to step back and take a breath.

  39. #39

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    For Prentice to not even hang around for the transition to the next party speaks volumes. Here's the province Notley, figure it out yourself. He showed absolutely no loyalty to this province whatsoever. He would have lost his leadership status at a leadership revue but he could have stuck around for a couple more months. I suppose being a lowly backbencher was not good enough for him. On another note, whoever was in charge of his campaign did him no favors. Once the PC's regroup I can imagine a few of the past MLA's to come out of the woodwork. I'm sure Lukasuk will be rearing his head trying to get on the band wagon in some capacity. Once a career politician always a career politician.
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  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Not sure if anyone posted this article yet, but here is a good indepth analysis of the PCs downfall, starting with Stelmach:

    Analysis: How the Alberta Progressive Conservative dynasty fell

    http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/...955/story.html
    PCs faced tough times under Getty too. Though I suppose, people liked the party but didn't feel that Getty performed all that well.

    Dealing with economic busts in Alberta has to be tough on leaders creating an almost a no win scenario.


    Notley is probably our Obama. Inherit a disaster that could get substantially worse and people don't appreciate any amount of effort towards lessening the degree of potential disaster. (Like the thanks a skilled surgeon must get for for saving one leg while losing the other.)


    ~
    Whatever you think of Obama or Rachel Motley, she isn't facing even close to that situation thanks to the PC pre-budget freak-out. They were predicting a 7b deficits that didn't happen and won't happen unless there's a full year with oil at $30. If things stay bad-ish they can always point back to what could have been.

  41. #41
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  42. #42

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    ^ The plane is a nice touch.



    ‘Travel scouts’ not needed ahead of Saskatchewan trade missions to Asia: NDP | Globalnews.ca
    By Clare Clancy The Canadian Press, May 4, 2015

    excerpt:

    “The premier is having trouble justifying why he has two highly paid travel scouts go months in advance on these trips that he’s doing,” he said.

    “The fact that even after Alison Redford in Alberta got in a lot of hot water for having a high-paid travel scout going months in advance on trips, this government stuck to that plan.”

    Last June, the former Alberta premier was criticized when documents showed her office directed a government employee to act as her personal travel scout at a cost of almost $330,000. The job included forwarding photos of hotels and suites, sussing out suitable patios and restaurants and at least once advising on public toilets. "



    http://globalnews.ca/news/1978692/tr...s-to-asia-ndp/

  43. #43

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    A few simple things an overwhelming amount of albertans want is:

    More royalties
    More upgrading/ refining here. PCs REFUSED to listen to albertans on that note.

    Edmonton is a blue collar city hence why it's voted further left then Calgary in past elections in my opinion

    The wrp in the last few years have helped expose how entitled and arrogant the PCs have gotten. People are also fed up with the corruption and pandering to special interest groups and the old boys club that forgot who they were working for.

    Some extremely high profile candidates from mandel to Hanson. And not everyone was a fan of mandel, I'm not even sure who voted for the guy as every single person I have every worked with has story after story of conspiracy theories of back room deals; some I'm sure have truth to them.

    So not only was it lack of trust in the governing party, years of not listening to average albertans, flagrant abuse of power, and blaming us at the end of the day, an alternative emerged. Clean, fresh, and offering equal raises in taxes( for some people) and listening to the electorate (how long has that been?). A lifelong right wing party supporter like myself gave notley my vote. As long as they do not the extremists run the show( which does not sound like a reality) they may get my vote again.

  44. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Anyone's thoughts on Prentice not only resigning from party leadership but also as a newly elected MLA?
    He showed his true colors - he was in it for himself, not to represent people who voted for him.

    Only a narcissist resigns the same night they win their seat.

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    Jim Prentice’s Tories are not the only big losers: Five of the worst electoral defeats in Canadian history


    1993 Kim Campbell got the biggest loss of seats in Canadian history as they went from before 156 seats and after only 2 seats !!




    http://news.nationalpost.com/news/ca...history-765370
    Last edited by jagators63; 06-05-2015 at 07:30 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Anyone's thoughts on Prentice not only resigning from party leadership but also as a newly elected MLA?
    He showed his true colors - he was in it for himself, not to represent people who voted for him.

    Only a narcissist resigns the same night they win their seat.
    He is opening the door for those same constituents to receive way better representation from a party that actually is forming the government or at least the official opposition depending on which way they vote. Much better representation than they would from a lame duck leader of a party on its way out. They should be thanking him.
    Last edited by edTel; 06-05-2015 at 07:46 PM.

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    I wonder if this dinner is still going on.

    https://www.pcalberta.org/CMSEvent?n...Leaders+Dinner
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  48. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by jagators63 View Post
    Jim Prentice’s Tories are not the only big losers: Five of the worst electoral defeats in Canadian history


    1993 Kim Campbell got the biggest loss of seats in Canadian history as they went from before 156 seats and after only 2 seats !!




    http://news.nationalpost.com/news/ca...history-765370
    I liked her. She didn't over promise about jobs and got killed for it.


    "However, Campbell's initial popularity soon declined, due to public-relations mistakes committed after the writ was dropped. When she was running for the party leadership, Campbell's frank honesty was seen as an important asset and a sharp contrast from Mulroney's highly polished style. However, that style backfired when she told reporters at a Rideau Hall event that it was unlikely that the deficit or unemployment would be much reduced before the "end of the century". During the election campaign, she further stated that discussing a complete overhaul of Canada's social policies in all their complexities could not be done in just 47 days; this statement was reduced to her having stated that an election is no time to discuss important issues.

    Some have pointed to her gender as a major contributing factor to her historic loss. University of New Brunswick professor Joanna Everitt writes that while media simply reported the facts about rival male leaders such as Jean Chrétien, Campbell's actions were usually interpreted as having some motive (drawing up support, appealing to a group, etc.).[15]"

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Campbell
    Last edited by KC; 06-05-2015 at 10:58 PM.

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    The conservatives introduced the gst in 1991 to replace the manufacturers sales tax that was hidden from the general public and was 13.5% at the time. The public overwhelmingly rejected the conservatives the first chance they had the opportunity to do so. Kim Campbell took the fall that anyone who would have been leader of the PC's would have.

    evaneo, as I recall the conservatives expected the change in tax to be revenue neutral ( that is to say that the gst was expected to bring in the same amount of money as the mst that it was replacing). It actually brought in much greater revenue than expected and the subsequent Liberal government benefitted greatly.

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    I knew the PCs were in trouble the day the WRP crossed the floor. They were flying high up to that point promising change, winning four by-elections handily and making all the right moves. The floor crossing galvanized the WRP and betrayed the progressive vote, again. The budget and Prentice's arrogance just further eroded their popularity.
    The collapse of the Liberal party did'nt help either. Thank you Mr Sherman quitting the party just before an election.
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    So what does all this mean now. With the NDP in power, what does the future of Alberta look like? How does this affect Edmonton (since the NDP is based out of Edm.)? Aside from the promises Notley has made, what essentially does the NDP stand for? What does this party represent?

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    Mandel’s return to politics short-lived

    Stephen Mandel, the popular former mayor of Edmonton, was one of many PC victims of the orange wave that swept through the provincial capital. In a rematch of last fall’s byelection in Edmonton-Whitemud, the NDP’s Bob Turner won by more than 5,000 votes in a riding that had been one of the safest Tory seats in northern Alberta.
    “It’s a challenge for all of us to see the PC party have such a defeat, especially in the city of Edmonton, our home,” said Mandel, whose return to politics lasted just eight months.


    http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/...972/story.html
    One would have to have a heart of stone to not find this hysterical... Still, his old bud Daryl owes him a favor or two, maybe he cold line him up with a janitorial position or the like when the new ice rink opens?
    "The only really positive thing one could say about Vancouver is, it’s not the rest of Canada." Oink (britishexpats.com)

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    Alberta election: Top 5 PC gaffes in the 2015 campaign
    How did it all go so wrong?

    see for yourself

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/elections/alb...64236?cmp=fbtl
    Edmonton Rocks Rocks Rocks

  55. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by expat View Post
    Mandel’s return to politics short-lived

    Stephen Mandel, the popular former mayor of Edmonton, was one of many PC victims of the orange wave that swept through the provincial capital. In a rematch of last fall’s byelection in Edmonton-Whitemud, the NDP’s Bob Turner won by more than 5,000 votes in a riding that had been one of the safest Tory seats in northern Alberta.
    “It’s a challenge for all of us to see the PC party have such a defeat, especially in the city of Edmonton, our home,” said Mandel, whose return to politics lasted just eight months.


    http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/...972/story.html
    One would have to have a heart of stone to not find this hysterical... Still, his old bud Daryl owes him a favor or two, maybe he cold line him up with a janitorial position or the like when the new ice rink opens?
    I'm guessing as he wasn't there so long, he didn't get a big gold plated payout either, this softens the biterness for some I'm sure, but poor old Mandel probably mostly misses out:

    Some of the highest payouts to defeated MLAs include:

    •$874,000 to former Speaker and Edmonton-Mill Creek MLA Gene Zwozdesky
    •$802,000 to Lesser Slave Lake MLA Pearl Calahasen
    •$642,000 to Calgary-East MLA Moe Amery
    •$531,000 to Edmonton-Centre MLA Laurie Blakeman
    •$484,000 to Edmonton-Castle Downs MLA Thomas Lukaszuk.
    http://www.calgarysun.com/2015/05/06...ly-134-million

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Cat View Post
    I wonder if this dinner is still going on.

    https://www.pcalberta.org/CMSEvent?n...Leaders+Dinner


    Great find Cat.

    Classic.


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    Like scheduling the parade before the cup is won.

  58. #58

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    Everyone in the province would be very interested to see the dirt that turns up if Notley hires some auditors to go through everything.

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    I don't think Kim Campbell being a lady had much to do with her loss, with one factor. She was involved in a relationship with Gregory Lekhtman during the campaign and was for the most part invisible making very few speeches, public appearances. Peter C. Newman's comment somewhat aptly (and rudely) summed it up
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sec...es_of_the_book

    Prentice's problem was calling the election, he could have waited a year, tinkered with the budget a bit, by then tempers might have cooled off, people might have forgotten some of the scandals and excesses. But nope, the anger was still very present. His actions will probably be lumped with Kim Campbell's in Poli. Sci. 101 on things NOT to do.
    Last edited by sundance; 07-05-2015 at 02:37 PM.

  60. #60

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    The Fed PCs have had their support / $$ behind the WRP for a while now. This doesn't come as a huge shock. Same **** different pile
    FREE THE LOOPING .GIF MEMES
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  61. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Dawg View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by The_Cat View Post
    I wonder if this dinner is still going on.

    https://www.pcalberta.org/CMSEvent?n...Leaders+Dinner


    Great find Cat.

    Classic.

    Yup!

    PCs are going ahead with their leader's dinner anyway - ha ha.

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...ader-1.3066246

    Prentice is a tool.

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    Best comment:

    harrylarryjuglish
    if they combined it with the Liberal leader's dinner, they could probably sell out my living room.



  63. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Notley is probably our Obama. Inherit a disaster that could get substantially worse and people don't appreciate any amount of effort towards lessening the degree of potential disaster. (Like the thanks a skilled surgeon must get for for saving one leg while losing the other.)
    ~
    You are defending Obama? Seriously? A guy who refuses to approve a billion dollar pipeline that will create much needed jobs (even tells lies about it), and who sends drones left right and center to accidently kill innocent people, only apologising if they are US citizens? I'm worried about Notley, but not that worried.
    Not a fan of the drone strikes but i prefer that to going into a country that posed no threat and killing 100,000 people and making millions more into refugees while lying about the reason you're doing it.

    But hey, they were probably just more of your "poor and useless people" anyway.

    Forget about spousal abuse and hookers and white supremacy and homophobia, we've got a REAL crisis on out hands here! Somebody posted something stupid on Facebook!

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    if Notley is our Obama , I'm very sure Notley and NDP will only take one election then booted out on next election very quickly.
    Edmonton Rocks Rocks Rocks

  65. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Notley is probably our Obama. Inherit a disaster that could get substantially worse and people don't appreciate any amount of effort towards lessening the degree of potential disaster. (Like the thanks a skilled surgeon must get for for saving one leg while losing the other.)
    ~
    You are defending Obama? Seriously? A guy who refuses to approve a billion dollar pipeline that will create much needed jobs (even tells lies about it), and who sends drones left right and center to accidently kill innocent people, only apologising if they are US citizens? I'm worried about Notley, but not that worried.
    Why should he approve the pipeline ? America doesn't need it.

  66. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by jagators63 View Post
    if Notley is our Obama , I'm very sure Notley and NDP will only take one election then booted out on next election very quickly.
    Considering Obama won two, I wonder why you're saying that. And he cannot run for a third term (right wing whack job conspiracy theorists notwithstanding).

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jagators63 View Post
    if Notley is our Obama , I'm very sure Notley and NDP will only take one election then booted out on next election very quickly.
    Considering Obama won two, I wonder why you're saying that.
    Maybe he means that Obama, while re-electable in the US, would not be re-electable in Alberta.

  68. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by overoceans View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jagators63 View Post
    if Notley is our Obama , I'm very sure Notley and NDP will only take one election then booted out on next election very quickly.
    Considering Obama won two, I wonder why you're saying that.
    Maybe he means that Obama, while re-electable in the US, would not be re-electable in Alberta.
    Yes , we prefer white kleptocracies. And we keep them forever.

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    I think part of the problem is our voting system that allows governments to win huge majorities with only 35 to 40 percent of the vote.

    It also allows the party in power to stay in power unless something significant changes in the political landscape. The PC downfall needed both the rise of the WRP to fragment votes on the right and the collapse of the Liberals to consolidate votes on the left.

    The danger for the NDP is to think their election platform is what the majority of Albertans want. They need to realize as the government they represent all Albertans and not just the ones who voted for them. Any comparison to Obama is crazy, Alberta is in a position any other jurisdiction would kill for not on the brink of collapse. With a little common sense our budget can be balanced and our economy remain strong.

    People trash the PC's (and yes they deserve it) but seem to forget the incredible growth and high standard of living we as Albertans have enjoyed over the last 40 plus years. Maybe now is the right time for a change but I don't think Alberta would be where we are today if we had the NDP running the province for the last 40 plus years.

  70. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarsands View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by overoceans View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jagators63 View Post
    if Notley is our Obama , I'm very sure Notley and NDP will only take one election then booted out on next election very quickly.
    Considering Obama won two, I wonder why you're saying that.
    Maybe he means that Obama, while re-electable in the US, would not be re-electable in Alberta.
    Yes , we prefer white kleptocracies. And we keep them forever.
    What does race have to do with anything?

  71. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarsands View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Notley is probably our Obama. Inherit a disaster that could get substantially worse and people don't appreciate any amount of effort towards lessening the degree of potential disaster. (Like the thanks a skilled surgeon must get for for saving one leg while losing the other.)
    ~
    You are defending Obama? Seriously? A guy who refuses to approve a billion dollar pipeline that will create much needed jobs (even tells lies about it), and who sends drones left right and center to accidently kill innocent people, only apologising if they are US citizens? I'm worried about Notley, but not that worried.
    Why should he approve the pipeline ? America doesn't need it.
    There are lots of half empty refineries in the gulf coast, this brings a stable cheap supply of crude for them. But heck, sure, it's going by train anyway without creating a boost in jobs and property taxes for every State on the pipeline, that's safer and better isn't it?

  72. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarsands View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Notley is probably our Obama. Inherit a disaster that could get substantially worse and people don't appreciate any amount of effort towards lessening the degree of potential disaster. (Like the thanks a skilled surgeon must get for for saving one leg while losing the other.)
    ~
    You are defending Obama? Seriously? A guy who refuses to approve a billion dollar pipeline that will create much needed jobs (even tells lies about it), and who sends drones left right and center to accidently kill innocent people, only apologising if they are US citizens? I'm worried about Notley, but not that worried.
    Why should he approve the pipeline ? America doesn't need it.
    There are lots of half empty refineries in the gulf coast, this brings a stable cheap supply of crude for them. But heck, sure, it's going by train anyway without creating a boost in jobs and property taxes for every State on the pipeline, that's safer and better isn't it?
    Some expert opinion here...

    "I would prefer...we process the bitumen from the oilsands in Alberta and that would create a lot of jobs and job activity," he said.

    "That would be a better thing to do than merely send the raw bitumen down the pipeline and they refine it in Texas that means thousands of new jobs in Texas." - Peter Lougheed, 2011

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...line-1.1078801





    Nikiforuk: Yes, Refine Oil Sands Crude Right Here | The Tyee

    "Lougheed's "no" is also part of a bigger vision too. Since 2004 the statesman has laid out a truly conservative policy for tar sands development. It is prudent, practical and environmentally sound. Had it been heeded, Alberta's politicians would not be behaving like frantic bitumen salesmen or battling greens around the world. Nor would Ottawa's panjandrums be railing about "ethical oil" like Saudi religious extremists.

    Lougheed's prescription goes like this: behave like an owner. Get your fair share. Save for a rainy day. Slow down. Add value. And do one project at a time. (In contrast, Alberta's dysfunctional regulators insanely rubber stamped 100 projects since 1998.)

    Every year the experts dismiss Lougheed's bitumen plan as old fashioned or out of touch. Many others simply ignore his seasoned political experience. Yet research on the accuracy of experts repeatedly shows that the so-called experts get the future wrong and really don't know what the **** they are talking about. They simply have no breadth or depth."

    http://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2011/09/22...Oil-In-Canada/
    Last edited by KC; 10-05-2015 at 05:30 PM.

  73. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by jizzaldo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarsands View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by overoceans View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jagators63 View Post
    if Notley is our Obama , I'm very sure Notley and NDP will only take one election then booted out on next election very quickly.
    Considering Obama won two, I wonder why you're saying that.
    Maybe he means that Obama, while re-electable in the US, would not be re-electable in Alberta.
    Yes , we prefer white kleptocracies. And we keep them forever.
    What does race have to do with anything?
    Good point, correction:

    Yes , we prefer kleptocracies. And we keep them forever.

  74. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ponza View Post
    I think part of the problem is our voting system that allows governments to win huge majorities with only 35 to 40 percent of the vote.

    It also allows the party in power to stay in power unless something significant changes in the political landscape. The PC downfall needed both the rise of the WRP to fragment votes on the right and the collapse of the Liberals to consolidate votes on the left.

    The danger for the NDP is to think their election platform is what the majority of Albertans want. They need to realize as the government they represent all Albertans and not just the ones who voted for them. Any comparison to Obama is crazy, Alberta is in a position any other jurisdiction would kill for not on the brink of collapse. With a little common sense our budget can be balanced and our economy remain strong.

    People trash the PC's (and yes they deserve it) but seem to forget the incredible growth and high standard of living we as Albertans have enjoyed over the last 40 plus years. Maybe now is the right time for a change but I don't think Alberta would be where we are today if we had the NDP running the province for the last 40 plus years.
    Yeah, the rest of the country looks more like a third world country compared to Alberta. BC, with their multiple NDP governments is indistinguishable from the slums of Sao Paulo, Brazil. We sure dodged a bullet there.



    https://lebbeuswoods.wordpress.com/2...oo-long-story/

    We're so lucky that the Conservatives put all that oil under the province. None of the other parties ever thought of doing that.

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarsands View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Notley is probably our Obama. Inherit a disaster that could get substantially worse and people don't appreciate any amount of effort towards lessening the degree of potential disaster. (Like the thanks a skilled surgeon must get for for saving one leg while losing the other.)
    ~
    You are defending Obama? Seriously? A guy who refuses to approve a billion dollar pipeline that will create much needed jobs (even tells lies about it), and who sends drones left right and center to accidently kill innocent people, only apologising if they are US citizens? I'm worried about Notley, but not that worried.
    Why should he approve the pipeline ? America doesn't need it.
    There are lots of half empty refineries in the gulf coast, this brings a stable cheap supply of crude for them. But heck, sure, it's going by train anyway without creating a boost in jobs and property taxes for every State on the pipeline, that's safer and better isn't it?
    Some expert opinion here...

    "I would prefer...we process the bitumen from the oilsands in Alberta and that would create a lot of jobs and job activity," he said.

    "That would be a better thing to do than merely send the raw bitumen down the pipeline and they refine it in Texas that means thousands of new jobs in Texas." - Peter Lougheed, 2011

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...line-1.1078801





    Nikiforuk: Yes, Refine Oil Sands Crude Right Here | The Tyee

    "Lougheed's "no" is also part of a bigger vision too. Since 2004 the statesman has laid out a truly conservative policy for tar sands development. It is prudent, practical and environmentally sound. Had it been heeded, Alberta's politicians would not be behaving like frantic bitumen salesmen or battling greens around the world. Nor would Ottawa's panjandrums be railing about "ethical oil" like Saudi religious extremists.

    Lougheed's prescription goes like this: behave like an owner. Get your fair share. Save for a rainy day. Slow down. Add value. And do one project at a time. (In contrast, Alberta's dysfunctional regulators insanely rubber stamped 100 projects since 1998.)

    Every year the experts dismiss Lougheed's bitumen plan as old fashioned or out of touch. Many others simply ignore his seasoned political experience. Yet research on the accuracy of experts repeatedly shows that the so-called experts get the future wrong and really don't know what the **** they are talking about. They simply have no breadth or depth."

    http://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2011/09/22...Oil-In-Canada/
    The Tyee and Nikiforuk are experts? Really?
    Lougheed is not the be all and end all in these debates. How can you sell Texans refined products when they only want to buy bitumen? Can you imagine if GM said to it's customers you can only buy the cars we build not the ones you want? They would go bankrupt. Oh wait they did.
    The whole idea of only building one oil sands plant at a time is idealistic which would depend on a constant demand for oil with stable prices. When there is a window of opportunity everyone wants to build at once. Who would you choose to build. The people who provide the biggest kick backs to the powers that be?
    The development of the oil sands has to be an even playing field for all concerned the government should not be in the business of playing favourites.
    “Canada is the only country in the world that knows how to live without an identity,”-Marshall McLuhan

  76. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    We're so lucky that the Conservatives put all that oil under the province. None of the other parties ever thought of doing that.
    What a silly thing to say.

    Governments have nothing to do with "putting oil there", but they have a lot to do with getting it out.

    Saskatchewan has almost the same amount of oil in the ground as Alberta. The fact that Saskatchewan has elected NDP governments for most of the time that Alberta voted conservative, and the stark contrasts between employment, population, and infrastructure in the two places is a pretty good demonstration of how government plays a vital role in encouraging/discouraging business and innovation.

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Saskatchewan has almost the same amount of oil in the ground as Alberta. The fact that Saskatchewan has elected NDP governments for most of the time that Alberta voted conservative, and the stark contrasts between employment, population, and infrastructure in the two places is a pretty good demonstration of how government plays a vital role in encouraging/discouraging business and innovation.
    Where are you getting your information? Saskatchewan has nowhere near Alberta's reserves: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_reserves_in_Canada

    Alberta has 39% of Canada's remaining conventional oil reserves, offshore Newfoundland 28% and Saskatchewan 27%, but if oil sands are included, Alberta's share is over 98%.
    Saskatchewan has around a billion barrels of recoverable oil reserves (source: http://economy.gov.sk.ca/oilandgas). Alberta has over a hundred times that at something like 170 billion barrels. Granted, there's a lot of fuzzy math and science involved in calculating recoverable reserves, but even taking that in to account it's fairly apparent that Saskatchewan does not have "almost the same amount of oil in the ground as Alberta."

  78. #78

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    ^Saskatchewan doesn't just have oil though, its also full of mineral reserves and resources that Alberta doesn't have. That they haven't been able to attract the capital / jobs to significantly start extracting and use those resources (while they still have value) until they left the NDP, speaks for itself. There is a reason Alberta is full of refugees from there.

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    I thought all the 'refugees' from Sask and beyond were getting out of here when the oil price dropped. Well before NDP took charge.
    Nisi Dominus Frustra

  80. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Saskatchewan has around a billion barrels of recoverable oil reserves (source: http://economy.gov.sk.ca/oilandgas). Alberta has over a hundred times that at something like 170 billion barrels. Granted, there's a lot of fuzzy math and science involved in calculating recoverable reserves, but even taking that in to account it's fairly apparent that Saskatchewan does not have "almost the same amount of oil in the ground as Alberta."
    It doesn't change the fact that Saskatchewan has not taken advantage of their oil reserves like Alberta has. Keeping NDP governments in power 3/4 of the time will do that.

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    It's news to me that the NDP was holding back advancements in drilling technology to make extraction in the Bakken formation economical in Saskatchewan. Same thing with the NDP government in North Dakota, I guess!
    Last edited by JamesL; 11-05-2015 at 11:47 AM.

  82. #82

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    Alternate view that Saskatchewan is not really that bad off with an NDP government and proves that not all NDP governments are fiscally irresponsible.

    www.conferenceboard.ca

    Canada Provincial Debt: Eurozone-Style Crisis Could Hit If Provinces Don't Take Finances In Hand, 2012 Report Warns

    Joffe says this is due to several factors, including StatsCan’s projection that Alberta’s population will age faster than in any other part of the country, which raises health care costs; its reliance on volatile commodity prices; and the fact that it is already running a deficit despite relatively high oil prices and a robust, fast-growing economy.

    Joffe — a consultant at Public Sector Credit Solutions who is linked to the libertarian-leaning Reason Foundation — calculates the likelihood of an Alberta debt default within 30 years to be around 84 per cent if the province doesn’t alter its finances. Ontario has a 30-year default likelihood of 79.3 per cent, according to the report.
    http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/10...n_1980321.html



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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Saskatchewan has almost the same amount of oil in the ground as Alberta. The fact that Saskatchewan has elected NDP governments for most of the time that Alberta voted conservative, and the stark contrasts between employment, population, and infrastructure in the two places is a pretty good demonstration of how government plays a vital role in encouraging/discouraging business and innovation.
    Where are you getting your information? Saskatchewan has nowhere near Alberta's reserves: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_reserves_in_Canada

    Alberta has 39% of Canada's remaining conventional oil reserves, offshore Newfoundland 28% and Saskatchewan 27%, but if oil sands are included, Alberta's share is over 98%.
    Saskatchewan has around a billion barrels of recoverable oil reserves (source: http://economy.gov.sk.ca/oilandgas). Alberta has over a hundred times that at something like 170 billion barrels. Granted, there's a lot of fuzzy math and science involved in calculating recoverable reserves, but even taking that in to account it's fairly apparent that Saskatchewan does not have "almost the same amount of oil in the ground as Alberta."
    I find it amusing when they say they have found a massive offshore oil reserve when it does not even equate to one lease in the oilsands.
    “Canada is the only country in the world that knows how to live without an identity,”-Marshall McLuhan

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    It doesn't change the fact that Saskatchewan has not taken advantage of their oil reserves like Alberta has. Keeping NDP governments in power 3/4 of the time will do that.
    Saskatchewan produces about 25% as much oil as Alberta does, despite having less than 1% of the reserves Alberta does. Yet somehow that equates to "not taking advantage" of their reserves?

    Okay then!

  85. #85

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    More fearmongering by the right wing fringe.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

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    Fox News levels of fear mongering. Very amusing
    be offended! figure out why later...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco View Post
    ...
    The Tyee and Nikiforuk are experts? Really?
    Lougheed is not the be all and end all in these debates. How can you sell Texans refined products when they only want to buy bitumen? Can you imagine if GM said to it's customers you can only buy the cars we build not the ones you want? They would go bankrupt. Oh wait they did.
    The whole idea of only building one oil sands plant at a time is idealistic which would depend on a constant demand for oil with stable prices. When there is a window of opportunity everyone wants to build at once. Who would you choose to build. The people who provide the biggest kick backs to the powers that be?
    The development of the oil sands has to be an even playing field for all concerned the government should not be in the business of playing favourites.
    Texas doesn't want refined products, but there are many other potential customers that do, and some are no further away than Texas.
    The oil industry in Alberta would also benefit from a managed growth plan, instead of bidding up the cost of labour every time the price of oil spikes, and losing talent every time the price drops.

  88. #88

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    It doesn't change the fact that Saskatchewan has not taken advantage of their oil reserves like Alberta has. Keeping NDP governments in power 3/4 of the time will do that.
    Saskatchewan produces about 25% as much oil as Alberta does, despite having less than 1% of the reserves Alberta does. Yet somehow that equates to "not taking advantage" of their reserves?
    It sure does. Do you think so many Saskatchewanites moved to Alberta since the oil boom because of the weather?

  89. #89

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    Tonight at a PC fund raising dinner Prentice said:

    He said he feels he could contribute no more as an MLA and that he would be a “distraction” to both the party and the province if he were in the legislature.
    However, Prentice said he would volunteer to help rebuild the party.

    http://www.edmontonjournal.com/Defea...879/story.html
    Hopefully he's volunteering to stuff envelopes as I don't think he should be giving advice considering how they tanked so dramatically under his 'leadership'.
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

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    PC Party laying off almost all staff (including the infamous Kelley Charlebois) and closing both their Edmonton and Calgary offices: http://calgaryherald.com/news/politi...-election-loss

    Wow. They really have no money left.

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    makes you wonder what they served for that $500/plate dinner!
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    ^Reports said they switched the dinner from a tabled affair to a "stand-up reception" with a buffet. Cost had to be a factor.

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    I've got a few McDonald's coupons around the house. Maybe I'll donate those to them.
    Nisi Dominus Frustra

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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesL View Post
    ^Reports said they switched the dinner from a tabled affair to a "stand-up reception" with a buffet. Cost had to be a factor.


    How a propos.

    Pigs at the trough even in defeat.

  95. #95
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    Survey says: Albertans voted for change, anger and dislike of Prentice — less so for NDP, hope and Notley

    When Albertans elected a new government for the first time since 1971, they desired change more than they desired the NDP, a post-election survey says.

    Even among New Democrat voters, the result was identical, 93 per cent said wanting “change” influenced election results more than people liked the victorious party, says the poll of 1,000 Albertans by Abacus Data.

    Respondents to the online research survey were almost twice as likely to say voters cooled on now-former Tory leader Jim Prentice than to say they warmed to Rachel Notley, the province’s first NDP premier.

    Sixty-two per cent of Albertans said the results were about anger, compared with 38 per cent who believed they were about hope. NDP voters were far more likely to say the outcome was driven by hope and Notley’s likability.

    An Abacus Data survey suggests that the Alberta election result—especially the rise of the NDP and the decimation of the long-governing PCs—was more about wanting change than it was about NDP specifically.
    http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/...662/story.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    makes you wonder what they served for that $500/plate dinner!
    Crow

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Man From YEG View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    makes you wonder what they served for that $500/plate dinner!
    Crow
    Plus humble pie for dessert

  98. #98
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    Global Edmonton ‏@GlobalEdmonton
    PC’s Jordan Lien apologizes after calling NDP minister ‘morbidly obese': http://glbn.ca/NL672
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  99. #99
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    And of course the feminists turned a tasteless comment into a sexist issue. My god, I think my head is going to explode.

  100. #100

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    Real cheap shot on Lien's part. Doesn't have anything concrete to say so makes disparaging comments about her weight. In what universe does he think that is a nice thing to say.
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

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