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Thread: R100 St Funicular/Stairway & Frederick G. Todd Lookout/Elevator/Stairwell - Complete

  1. #1101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post

    ^If that's your biggest problem, that is fantastic. It was meant to be a destination AS WELL AS a people mover.
    It fails as a destination, and as a people mover. Fantastic indeed. It has the up-time and reliability of LRT escalators. What a waste of money. Once the novelty of this wears off, it won't be much of an attraction at all. I was supposed to help bring more people into the river valley, beyond the lookout. It's failing at that.
    I'm sorry good sir, but you are incorrect. It is quite well used, has a variety of spaces, seating, views, places, experiences and is functional over and above that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex.L View Post
    I've seen and been a part of a few corporate team-builder events revolving around the funicular and lookout point, so it's catching on. One was a stairs challenge, another was a pizza picnic. It was busy both of those times with walkers, parents with strollers, and people on bikes.



    Top_Dawg feels for you buddy.

    Don't you absolutely abhor those things ?

  3. #1103
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post

    ^If that's your biggest problem, that is fantastic. It was meant to be a destination AS WELL AS a people mover.
    It fails as a destination, and as a people mover. Fantastic indeed. It has the up-time and reliability of LRT escalators. What a waste of money. Once the novelty of this wears off, it won't be much of an attraction at all. I was supposed to help bring more people into the river valley, beyond the lookout. It's failing at that.
    I'm sorry good sir, but you are incorrect. It is quite well used, has a variety of spaces, seating, views, places, experiences and is functional over and above that.
    I don't disagree with you for the most part, but again, this was 30 million bucks. That's something like a quarter or a fifth of the way to a jumbo rec-center that the city has been building, which would undoubtedly see far more use. I can't help but feel it could have been better spent. And yes yes, there were strings attached that it had to do with the River Valley, but even then I feel like 30 million could perhaps have been spent better on multiple smaller projects throughout the valley. Even compared to the Terwillegar and Fort Edmonton foot bridges, which were both around 24-28 million, I feel like those are far better value than the funicular because they actually added new functionality as opposed to essentially duplicating it with Shaw a few hundred feet away. Not to mention that long term maintenance and operations for them will be a fraction of the funicular.

    But it's said and done, and it's well used so that's all to the good. But it's a good example of how often these targeted infrastructure programs from higher levels of government lead to less than optimal use of public dollars.
    Last edited by Marcel Petrin; 13-08-2018 at 01:00 PM.

  4. #1104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Dawg View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex.L View Post
    I've seen and been a part of a few corporate team-builder events revolving around the funicular and lookout point, so it's catching on. One was a stairs challenge, another was a pizza picnic. It was busy both of those times with walkers, parents with strollers, and people on bikes.



    Top_Dawg feels for you buddy.

    Don't you absolutely abhor those things ?
    They're not so bad if you're not busy. If you've got a hectic schedule cramming in 45 minutes of running stairs is kind of a day-ruiner though.

  5. #1105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post

    ^If that's your biggest problem, that is fantastic. It was meant to be a destination AS WELL AS a people mover.
    It fails as a destination, and as a people mover. Fantastic indeed. It has the up-time and reliability of LRT escalators. What a waste of money. Once the novelty of this wears off, it won't be much of an attraction at all. I was supposed to help bring more people into the river valley, beyond the lookout. It's failing at that.
    I'm sorry good sir, but you are incorrect. It is quite well used, has a variety of spaces, seating, views, places, experiences and is functional over and above that.
    I don't disagree with you for the most part, but again, this was 30 million bucks. That's something like a quarter or a fifth of the way to a jumbo rec-center that the city has been building, which would undoubtedly see far more use. I can't help but feel it could have been better spent. And yes yes, there were strings attached that it had to do with the River Valley, but even then I feel like 30 million could perhaps have been spent better on multiple smaller projects throughout the valley. Even compared to the Terwillegar and Fort Edmonton foot bridges, which were both around 24-28 million, I feel like those are far better value than the funicular because they actually added new functionality as opposed to essentially duplicating it with Shaw a few hundred feet away. Not to mention that long term maintenance and operations for them will be a fraction of the funicular.

    But it's said and done, and it's well used so that's all to the good. But it's a good example of how often these targeted infrastructure programs from higher levels of government lead to less than optimal use of public dollars.
    ... twas expensive, but included a bridge...
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  7. #1107

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    The funicular itself was about $5 million I believe.

    The staircase?

    The bridge?

    The elevator?

  8. #1108

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    Used the funicular Saturday evening after FolkFest. Super busy, about 10 cyclists with us.
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    ... twas expensive, but included a bridge...
    That duplicates a pedestrian bridge 100m up the road: https://goo.gl/maps/8Kaok64KNXp

    So again, it's looks great and has become a destination in and of itself. That's good. But it duplicates existing infrastructure that is a few hundred feet away and does little or nothing to truly improve access to the river valley. I'm not crying over spilled milk here, but the money could absolutely have been better spent on something else in the River Valley, whether one large project or several smaller ones.
    Last edited by Marcel Petrin; 13-08-2018 at 03:48 PM.

  10. #1110

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    a bridge to nowhere...
    A bridge to the elevator/stairs to the trail that leads to the Low Level bridge about a minute away. Anyone wanting to access the Muttart, Accidental Beach, or the Edmonton Ski Club/Folk Fest/Cloverdale Park, or anything else in the Cloverdale neighbourhood can readily do so by foot, bicycle, wheel chair, scooter, etc. And also a bridge to a great lookout, almost straight over the river.

  11. #1111
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    Once the footbridge under the lrt is open again it will be busy

  12. #1112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ustauk View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    a bridge to nowhere...
    A bridge to the elevator/stairs to the trail that leads to the Low Level bridge about a minute away. Anyone wanting to access the Muttart, Accidental Beach, or the Edmonton Ski Club/Folk Fest/Cloverdale Park, or anything else in the Cloverdale neighbourhood can readily do so by foot, bicycle, wheel chair, scooter, etc. And also a bridge to a great lookout, almost straight over the river.
    Again, this use-case can be served by the Shaw with the addition of an elevator to the staircase I just linked to. It's pretty duplication, but duplication just the same.

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    Except when the Shaw is in use for an event. Then it's basically unusable. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but even if you use the one at the Shaw you then have to cross Grierson Hill either by the pedestrian bridge which leads to a staircase, or by actually running across the road. Both of which are no-go for anybody with accessibility concerns.

  14. #1114

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex.L View Post
    Except when the Shaw is in use for an event. Then it's basically unusable. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but even if you use the one at the Shaw you then have to cross Grierson Hill either by the pedestrian bridge which leads to a staircase, or by actually running across the road. Both of which are no-go for anybody with accessibility concerns.
    Also, the bridge to Shaw is a fair bit up the hill, where as the elevator from the lookout puts you at almost the same elevation as the Low Level Bridge. Less elevation change is important those with mobility issues, or small kids.
    Last edited by Ustauk; 13-08-2018 at 04:17 PM.

  15. #1115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ustauk View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex.L View Post
    Except when the Shaw is in use for an event. Then it's basically unusable. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but even if you use the one at the Shaw you then have to cross Grierson Hill either by the pedestrian bridge which leads to a staircase, or by actually running across the road. Both of which are no-go for anybody with accessibility concerns.
    Shaw does have a bridge across Grierson Hill road. The point about events at Shaw is valid, though. Other then for maintenance, the outdoor funicular is accessible all day and early evening long.
    right, but that bridge only leads to a staircase or a situation where people have to cross traffic speeding down the hill.

  16. #1116

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex.L View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ustauk View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex.L View Post
    Except when the Shaw is in use for an event. Then it's basically unusable. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but even if you use the one at the Shaw you then have to cross Grierson Hill either by the pedestrian bridge which leads to a staircase, or by actually running across the road. Both of which are no-go for anybody with accessibility concerns.
    Shaw does have a bridge across Grierson Hill road. The point about events at Shaw is valid, though. Other then for maintenance, the outdoor funicular is accessible all day and early evening long.
    right, but that bridge only leads to a staircase or a situation where people have to cross traffic speeding down the hill.
    I saw that after the fact and edited my post, sorry.

  17. #1117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex.L View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ustauk View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex.L View Post
    Except when the Shaw is in use for an event. Then it's basically unusable. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but even if you use the one at the Shaw you then have to cross Grierson Hill either by the pedestrian bridge which leads to a staircase, or by actually running across the road. Both of which are no-go for anybody with accessibility concerns.
    Shaw does have a bridge across Grierson Hill road. The point about events at Shaw is valid, though. Other then for maintenance, the outdoor funicular is accessible all day and early evening long.
    right, but that bridge only leads to a staircase or a situation where people have to cross traffic speeding down the hill.
    Re-read #1112. As far as when events are on, that's a valid point, but there's also likely ways to have addressed it that didn't require spending 30 million dollars. As far as accessibility goes, that too isn't a trump card that automatically justifies the expenditure. There are numerous more accessible places to enjoy the river valley for those that have mobility issues. Basically every park in the river valley, really, is easily accessible with nearby parking lots and/or transit. And I hardly think there's a large number of people with mobility issues that are using this and the low level bridge to get to Folk Fest, Cloverdale, Muttart and so on. That's frankly ridiculous, when all of those venues already have mobility access.

    Again, I'm not saying it's the end of the world. But I do think we got very poor value for the money spent on what amounts to a photo venue. And that's as much due to how the funding was structured as anything. "Quick, spend the money before it goes poof!" does not often lead to the best outcomes.
    Last edited by Marcel Petrin; 13-08-2018 at 05:06 PM.

  18. #1118
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    Decided to use the Funicular Elevator-plateau-Funicular to get out of the valley tonight on my ride and it was quite busy. Multiple groups from the various hotels exploring and a lot of locals, many with bikes/strollers, others running the stairs or just lounging.
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  19. #1119

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    ... twas expensive, but included a bridge...
    That duplicates a pedestrian bridge 100m up the road: https://goo.gl/maps/8Kaok64KNXp

    So again, it's looks great and has become a destination in and of itself. That's good. But it duplicates existing infrastructure that is a few hundred feet away and does little or nothing to truly improve access to the river valley. I'm not crying over spilled milk here, but the money could absolutely have been better spent on something else in the River Valley, whether one large project or several smaller ones.
    Lots of redundant crosswalks / lights / plus15s downtown too.

  20. #1120
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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    ... twas expensive, but included a bridge...
    That duplicates a pedestrian bridge 100m up the road: https://goo.gl/maps/8Kaok64KNXp

    So again, it's looks great and has become a destination in and of itself. That's good. But it duplicates existing infrastructure that is a few hundred feet away and does little or nothing to truly improve access to the river valley. I'm not crying over spilled milk here, but the money could absolutely have been better spent on something else in the River Valley, whether one large project or several smaller ones.
    Lots of redundant crosswalks / lights / plus15s downtown too.
    Crosswalks and lights don't cost 30 million per, and pedways are paid for by private developers.

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