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Thread: Calgary to announce their own new downtown arena plans

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    Default Calgary to announce their own new downtown arena plans

    Calgary to announce their own new downtown arena plans
    http://dlvr.it/8rWKJv
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    Anything you can do I can do better!!
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    facebook.com/BrothersGrimMusic

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    Good one Komrade.

    Sadly though, in this case it will most likely prove to be true.

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    And the key sentence goes to (drum roll please):

    The question of how the Flames expect its owners and governments to share costs for an arena stands to be a debate that consumes Calgary for years, as it did in Edmonton.

    (cymbal crash)
    ... gobsmacked

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    Quote Originally Posted by McBoo View Post
    And the key sentence goes to (drum roll please):

    The question of how the Flames expect its owners and governments to share costs for an arena stands to be a debate that consumes Calgary for years, as it did in Edmonton.

    ...In tomorrows Calgary Herald

    Alberta Government announces $500M in funding available for new Calgary arena.
    Government Minister states "that this new world class facility will place Calgary on the map!"


    Now cue
    (cymbal crash)
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    To be built on the flood plain?
    Fly Edmonton first. Support EIA

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    ^ You're missing a step, PRT. You need to wait until Prentice pulls a Ralph and lays off all the public sector workers in Edmonton / shuts down half the U of A, destroying our economy. Then a month later they will release a "revised" budget with much mock surprise showing that we didn't really need the austerity.

    THEN they will announce a whack of no-strings-attached funding for Calgary.

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    They will most likely be going down a long path like Katz took and would expect this to take years until it is finalized (unless they are going to privately fund it).

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    Air Canada Place
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    Quote Originally Posted by 24karat View Post
    To be built on the flood plain?
    If that article is true, no. By the Greyhound, where future "West Village" will be built (next "East Village" / Quarters type project). I think the river trails flooded a little there, but not the land.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hilman View Post
    They will most likely be going down a long path like Katz took and would expect this to take years until it is finalized (unless they are going to privately fund it).
    I think the latter is far more likely. They'll get (or try for) some funding from the City I would imagine, but for the most part this thing will be announced pretty darn near fully funded and realized. Say what you will about Calgary, but their business community gets things done.

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    ^sounds from Nenshi's comment, they want some city land (and he will want something of "public benefit"), I wonder if that will be the ask, land in return for them building a community rink or something else to get West Village started - that would be my guess. Sunalta is a pretty run down / industrial type area, so will be interesting to see.
    Last edited by moahunter; 05-03-2015 at 03:14 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Hilman View Post
    They will most likely be going down a long path like Katz took and would expect this to take years until it is finalized (unless they are going to privately fund it).
    I think the latter is far more likely. They'll get (or try for) some funding from the City I would imagine, but for the most part this thing will be announced pretty darn near fully funded and realized. Say what you will about Calgary, but their business community gets things done.
    The fact that they're prepared to announce it in the present economic climate suggests they have their ducks somewhat in a row and are feeling pretty confident in progressing the project.
    "The only really positive thing one could say about Vancouver is, it’s not the rest of Canada." Oink (britishexpats.com)

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    ^ Good for them if it is but I don't really care if their city council pays 0% or 100%, it makes no difference to me.

    It will be interesting to see the design of the area, its nice to see this actually moving forward as their new arena talks have been going on longer than ours somehow lol (they have been talking it since 2007).
    Last edited by Hilman; 05-03-2015 at 03:39 PM.

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    The main point of interest will be how big a bite an apropriately sized, fully functioning new hall in Calgary takes out of the Edmonton concert/entertainment business?

    Numerous acts over the years have stated that Edmonton has been chosen over Calgary due to structural issues with the Saddledome.

    And of course soonish Edmonton is about to be lumbered with 2 barns to fill week in week out.... Should be interesting.
    "The only really positive thing one could say about Vancouver is, it’s not the rest of Canada." Oink (britishexpats.com)

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    It wont be like ours .Ours is right downtown with many other things along with it .High-rises, stores etc.

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    It won't be the transformational City builder ours has been because they aren't starting so far after the gun as we were.
    Their old arena is also not nearly the low starting point ours has been in terms of location, ancillary attractions, or capacity.

    And I doubt they even get up to half the concert ticket sales in the long term, because it's the people who buy the tickets. The roof issues typically affect less than three tours per year.

    All the same, as long as we don't see Provincial or Federal funding in it, I wish them well. Hopefully it makes them a better city. One thing I expect though, is it won't be good news for the "red mile".
    Let's make Edmonton better.

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    ^^^ I don't think Edmonton will lose any concerts, this city outsells Calgary by a large margin (not just because of the Saddledome's roof) and I see future concerts playing in both cities instead of missing Calgary.

    Why would an act skip Edmonton when it is a large city with lots of disposable income and historically sells large amounts of tickets for events? It just doesn't make any sense (or cents lol) to skip Edmonton (logistically or financially).

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    ^ strictly to answer an obviously rhetorical question, it would depend what percentage of our Marroon 5 crowd is driving up the highway. If it's 90% Cowtowners (lol), yeah, we lose that one.

    #andpigsfly
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    Last edited by JayBee; 05-03-2015 at 04:19 PM. Reason: spelling
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    Quote Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
    ^ strictly to answer an obviously rhetorical question, it would depend what percentage of our Marroon 5 crowd is driving up the highway. It it's 90% Cowtowners (lol), yeah, we lose that one.

    #andpigsfly
    #iknewexpatwascalgarian
    Far from it mate, the only times I've even bothered going there were to use it's somewhat superior airport.
    "The only really positive thing one could say about Vancouver is, it’s not the rest of Canada." Oink (britishexpats.com)

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    ^. I wouldn't believe you if you scanned and posted your drivers licence but thanks for bringing attention to it.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

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    City of Calgary: "Maybe you can have some free land."
    City of Edmonton: "Hey, we'll buy the land you bought AND build you a building AND let you have all the revenue from the building AND give you all the street parking revenue AND a couple million a year to advertise our city in conjunction with the arena that we own. Please don't utter any more empty threats."

    I've never been one to be jealous of Calgary, but man would I trade their council & mayor for ours in a New York minute.
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    ^you so sure about that? Have you not been following the ***** show that is their council and mayor?
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    ^ and in 5 years they will have the same piece of land with no building.

    Unless this is exclusively funded privately it will go down the same road as ours - only it will be faster because they will use our model in the end

    AC Place sounds about right to me - maybe Air Canada can chip in a few hundred million for their hub

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    http://calgaryherald.com/news/local-...alcohol-policy

    Like this stuff? We've got a City Council that agreed to an arena deal so lopsided I'd actually think MORE of them if they were high as a kite while they nodded along with Katz' demands. At least it'd provide SOME justification for the farce that is the funding model for the new arena.
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    It all comes from the same place one way or the other, our pockets. At least it's getting built.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    It all comes from the same place one way or the other, our pockets. At least it's getting built.
    "Who cares if it's a half billion in corporate subsidies to a profitable team owned by a plutocrat? HOCKEYHOCKEYHOCKEY"
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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    http://calgaryherald.com/news/local-...alcohol-policy

    Like this stuff? We've got a City Council that agreed to an arena deal so lopsided I'd actually think MORE of them if they were high as a kite while they nodded along with Katz' demands. At least it'd provide SOME justification for the farce that is the funding model for the new arena.
    Hey, what are you complaining about??? He will be paying rent. The equivalent of a new $600,000 home, gets all the revenue, built to his specifications, no down payment and he has to pay $219 a month.


    BTW, what are your monthly rent payments?
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    Should be interesting to see their concept on this. Wonder what 'theme' they use for the design. Horseshoes, cowboy hat, cows.
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    If Calgary built new arena and got hit with flood , it will hit them real much harder, so I don't worry about them if they got best over Rogers place.
    Edmonton Rocks Rocks Rocks

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    Should be interesting to see their concept on this. Wonder what 'theme' they use for the design. Horseshoes, cowboy hat, cows.
    pies?
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    ^A saddle? Oh right, been there, done that.

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    I think it's obvious to most of you that this has reared its head after all the teeth gnashing down south after Madonna and Shania Twain announced their tours this week, both of which are bypassing Calgary.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    It all comes from the same place one way or the other, our pockets. At least it's getting built.
    "Who cares if it's a half billion in corporate subsidies to a profitable team owned by a plutocrat? HOCKEYHOCKEYHOCKEY"
    The reason I always supported the downtown arena was because downtown is still dead in the evenings, while all our largest (and increasingly frequent) evening winter events would merely dissipate into Northlands' gargantuan surface parking lot instead. If we want to leverage as best we can, we're just not big enough to spread out like that, and 118 Ave just cannot balance 17,000 people in the evenings with anything similar in the daytime.

    It's because downtown sucks, not because the Oilers also suck. Ideal lease? No. Better than free rent at Northlands? Yes, actually. Frequent large waves of humans filling restaurants and such downtown? Yes. Making use of billions of dollars of unused infrastructure in the evenings? Yes. C'est le point.

    Calgary City Council is starting with a City whose current arena basically the same distance from their downtown as the proposed new location. Guess what, no more synergy than they already have. Won't create, so much as move the place the synergy (already) happens.

    If I were Nenshi I wouldn't support it either, but that doesn't mean it was wrong in our case.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jagators63 View Post
    If Calgary built new arena and got hit with flood , it will hit them real much harder, so I don't worry about them if they got best over Rogers place.
    I think they are going to build it somewhere other than where the Saddledome is. If they do build it on a flood plain and something does happen then I hope the province tells them they are on their own with the clean up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    I think it's obvious to most of you that this has reared its head after all the teeth gnashing down south after Madonna and Shania Twain announced their tours this week, both of which are bypassing Calgary.
    It could also have a lot to do that Edmonton is more central. Northlands could gather fans from northern Alberta and southern Alberta and that is a big base. Makes it more likely that there will be two shows by and artist.
    Calgary could probably draw fans from maybe as far away as Edmonton but maybe not as many from further north of us. Maybe not enough to put on a second show. I know some people come from B.C. etc. to see concerts in Edmonton but they are the exception and not the rule.
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    ^ could be, all I know is it's exactly the same for every other type of ticketed event except pro sports.
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    Good luck to Calgary. Two new arenas mean bigger events for Alberta.
    Last edited by The_Cat; 06-03-2015 at 12:07 AM.
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    I would hope so but you have to wonder if shows would rather just be able to have two nights in the same venue and skip the other town.

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    ^why wouldn't they do four nights in both cities then? Events don't come to Alberta out of a desire to please the fans, or check off the province. They come to make money, we pay big, and two great arenas will mean more money, more acts coming.

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    They'll be in both cities as long as they can sell tickets.

    Doubt C's new arena somehow provokes a cultural movement, though.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SP59 View Post
    I would hope so but you have to wonder if shows would rather just be able to have two nights in the same venue and skip the other town.
    Acts do that all the time.

    Paul McCartney's show in Edmonton a couple years ago comes to mind. He didn't play in Calgary.

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    McCartney didn't play in Calgary for the same reasons as Taylor Swift, Gaga, Timberlake, etc - the Saddledome is unable to accommodate most concerts.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    Slightly off topic, but there might be less need for artists to do concerts now. The last decade or so, many have been forced to as no money to be made on records sales. But it turns out that they are now making a ton from paid streaming services like Spotify / goggle play, etc, these services kick back about 70 percent to artists based on their popularity (so whoever you listen to, the rights owner is getting paid). It's interesting how technology disrupts, then things restabilize.
    Last edited by moahunter; 06-03-2015 at 07:23 AM.

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    ^^ Nonsense. Gaga was the only one of those shows that needed structural support from the roof.

    It's all about where they can sell tickets.

    It is us who pay the prices and the scalping industry guaranteeing sellouts every time, not the messiah Northlands.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^why wouldn't they do four nights in both cities then? Events don't come to Alberta out of a desire to please the fans, or check off the province. They come to make money, we pay big, and two great arenas will mean more money, more acts coming.
    Most concert equipment does not arrive at the venue in the back of a Ford Econoline. Usually the concerts that are at Northlands the equipment and crew come in 2, 4, 6, 8 trucks along with a few busses depending on how many hangers on. It's a very expensive undertaking so they want to sell as many seats as possible. If they think Northlands has a better vibe and can sell more seats then Calgary they play here. It happens quite a few times that someone is going to play one show and then the tickets sell out in record time and they announce another show. I think concert promoters do their homework and know what cities are going to get them the biggest returns.
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    ^yes but if they are going to Edmonton, why not stop at Calgary? They don't right now, because they often can't (the Saddledome can't handel many concerts), or people won't pay in Calgary as Saddledome is horrible acoustically. As a market, Edmonton and Calgary combined is bigger than one alone, so if both cities have capable arenas it will I think attract more events to Alberta.
    Last edited by moahunter; 06-03-2015 at 07:29 AM.

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    ^^ Northlands does it perfectly well, but it's within the ticket hungry frenzy that the City is. No offence to Northlands at all.

    ^ if Calgarians ever start going out in the evenings, maybe.
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    It will attract more events but will the artists want to go to both cities. It's the same in the States. A band might go to Detroit but not Chicago. It's a lot to do with the logistics of moving equipment so they set their concerts stops well in advance. They might have sell out concerts but then find if they stop at too many cities they don't make enough profit because of the expense out hauling, setting up equipment and finding accommodations for the crew and diva or the male equivalent of Justin Bieber.
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    Anyone who thinks touring acts are playing in Edmonton and skipping Calgary - a city of over 1 million people with lots of high income earners - for any reason other than their facilities is living in a cloud cuckoo land far removed from this reality. I do recall the Stones and U2 playing in Calgary and skipping Edmonton during more scaled-down tours.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    ^ idiocy.

    Explain why the margin is even higher in classical music, live theatre, musicals, and dance.

    Explain why the Edmonton Fringe is 20 times the size of Calgary's.

    Explain how the other shows you mentioned needed structural support from the roof.

    You are clueless.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

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    Oh, and by the way, did you just say the Stones and U2 fit their shows under the Saddledome with no problems?

    Thanks for making my point for me.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Anyone who thinks touring acts are playing in Edmonton and skipping Calgary - a city of over 1 million people with lots of high income earners - for any reason other than their facilities is living in a cloud cuckoo land far removed from this reality. I do recall the Stones and U2 playing in Calgary and skipping Edmonton during more scaled-down tours.
    Well let's see if we can make sense of this concert tour. It's Taylor Swift's. The reason I picked it is she has a lot of faithful followers.
    Now, she is doing 2 concerts in Edmonton and yet only 1 in London, England. 2 in Toronto and only 1 in Vancouver. Manchester & Glasgow but none in Birmingham which is the second biggest city in the U.K. 1 in New Jersey and yet 2 in Foxborough MA. Let me know how much sense it makes to you then get back to us.

    http://www.taylorswift.com/news/230983
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    http://www.calgarysun.com/2015/03/04...ur-of-edmonton

    Shania Twain latest star to snub Calgary's aging Saddledome in favour of Edmonton

    It’s a Battle of Alberta we can never win — not while the aging, architecturally-challenged Saddledome remains the only large concert venue in town.

    And it’s not just Edmonton’s enviable musical fortune that’s leaving Calgary saddle sore over concert snubs like Shania Twain, Maroon 5 and Madonna.

    When Saskatoon proves a bigger concert draw than a city five times its size, the day has come for Calgary to realize a new arena is about a lot more than hockey games and padding the wallets of NHL millionaires.

    “The Saddledome has limitations, and the roof is an issue,” said said Ian Low, executive vice-president of talent for Live Nation, Canada’s largest concert promoter.

    It’s just more confirmation of a reality Calgary has been facing with for years, that the 32-year-old Saddledome is increasingly ill-suited to safely support the elaborate light and sound rigs that come with major world tours.

    The old arena is not ideal for music in any case, with odd sight lines and mausoleum-like acoustics, but that alone would never prevent the big acts from doing their thing — and indeed, those planning the tours say Calgary is one of the best cities to play.

    “The concert capacity of the venue is right on the mark, at 11,000, and we love the Calgary market,” said Low.

    “It’s a fantastic market for concerts, but there are limitations with the weight-load the roof can handle, and that’s the reality.”

    The cursed roof. The very thing that gives the Saddledome its name and iconic appearance is also the weakest link, unable to handle the heft of modern concert rigs.

    Some bands make do, using a reduced stage show and lights, but others acts just skip Calgary altogether, rather that sacrifice the giant screens and theatrics that are now essential to many major tours.
    So tell me who's now clueless? What's color is the sky in your dimension, JayBee and Gemini?
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    ^Saddledome is a total dump, it feels 20 years older than the current Rexall (let alone the new one). Its just not a good event venue, even if the roof were capable. I'm pretty sure when Calgary gets a comparable arena to Edmonton, it will get comparable events (we will know who is right or wrong then re this thread). Lets not forget, Calgary gets plenty of big events during stampede (many outdoors), so the fan base is there (to suggest otherwise, is a bit silly, the cities populations aren't as different as some imagine - both are full of wealthy middle class Albertans).
    Last edited by moahunter; 06-03-2015 at 10:42 AM.

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    Oh my god, I have just been "proven" wrong by the Calgary Sun.

    Love how the Livenation dude says the roof is "an" issue, but not "the" issue. Proves a lot.

    Still not one answer?

    Waiting...
    Let's make Edmonton better.

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    And FFS, am I on your ignore list or what?

    What a large joke, is what. Get over yourself already.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^Saddledome is a total dump, it feels 20 years older than the current Rexall (let alone the new one). Its just not a good event venue, even if the roof were capable. I'm pretty sure when Calgary gets a comparable arena to Edmonton, it will get comparable events (we will know who is right or wrong then re this thread). Lets not forget, Calgary gets plenty of big events during stampede (many outdoors), so the fan base is there (to suggest otherwise, is a bit silly, the cities populations aren't as different as some imagine - both are full of wealthy middle class Albertans).
    Talk to the statistics that say Calgary is fully two thirds less cultured in all types of ticketed events, don't talk to me.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

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    Herald: Several acts a year skip Calgary due to Saddledome's drawbacks
    http://calgaryherald.com/news/local-...omes-drawbacks

    Global: Star-powered snubs renew speculation about new Calgary arena
    http://globalnews.ca/news/1867209/st...calgary-arena/

    CHED: Rexall drawing more big name music acts in 2015 than Calgary’s Saddledome
    http://www.630ched.com/2015/03/04/re...ys-saddledome/
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    ^ so you mean the PR machine is shifting to hyperdrive?

    Gee, it's almost as if they're trying to sell an arena to a populace or something.

    What could it possibly mean?

    Let's make Edmonton better.

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    It means there is an provincial election coming up and they want to twist the province's arm for more money.

  62. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
    The reason I always supported the downtown arena was because downtown is still dead in the evenings, while all our largest (and increasingly frequent) evening winter events would merely dissipate into Northlands' gargantuan surface parking lot instead. If we want to leverage as best we can, we're just not big enough to spread out like that, and 118 Ave just cannot balance 17,000 people in the evenings with anything similar in the daytime.

    It's because downtown sucks, not because the Oilers also suck. Ideal lease? No. Better than free rent at Northlands? Yes, actually. Frequent large waves of humans filling restaurants and such downtown? Yes. Making use of billions of dollars of unused infrastructure in the evenings? Yes. C'est le point.

    Calgary City Council is starting with a City whose current arena basically the same distance from their downtown as the proposed new location. Guess what, no more synergy than they already have. Won't create, so much as move the place the synergy (already) happens.

    If I were Nenshi I wouldn't support it either, but that doesn't mean it was wrong in our case.
    What would have changed about the revitalization aspects of the arena if we had only given him the land & he paid the measly 14% of his net worth to build the arena?

    Well, perhaps we'd have seen other builders be selected for the Stantec & COE RFPs, since he'd not be quite as flexible in undercutting the competition without us subsidizing the operations of one of his major profit centres.

    Once again, I will reiterate, this time in bold:

    I am all for a downtown arena & the revitalization that it's spearheading. I am not for the fact that asking him to pay for his own business operations was never on the table & the use of public funds was a defacto given in the negotiations. Arena = good. Edmonton City Council bending over & taking it without a peep = bad.

    If I said I wanted to get a dog because it'd make my life more vibrant, that's one thing & something many people would support, even if they're not dog people themselves. If I said I wanted YOU, my neighbor, to buy me a dog, that would live at my house, now that's something else entirely. I'd pay for grooming & toss you a few bucks, but you'd pay for the vet visits, vaccinations, food, licences, some annual photos of me & my new best friend, all while cleaning up his poop as we take him out for walks. Now, you'd be able to come over & pet him when it's convenient for me & if you pay a small fee. And since I need a high-end purebred, this dog won't be cheap & over the expected lifetime of the dog, I'd be expected to pay you roughly half of the initial cost of the dog, but since my dog is SO NICE & lives RIGHT next to you, I'm sure you can jack up the rent on your secondary suite to compensate for the rest of the dog's value, even if the dog is only out for walks a couple hundred nights a year & otherwise sits in my backyard. It's just that nice of a dog, it'll work. Trust me.

    Is that a deal you'd get behind? I wouldn't. But this is the deal we cut with Daryl.

    (it's not a perfect metaphor & I'm certain people will get hung up on it & call me an anti-progress regressive, but hey, it's good enough for illustrative purposes)
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  63. #63

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    ^ i'm not saying the deal was optimal, I'm saying there's a totally different starting point in Edmonton than Calgary.

    Edmonton:
    • Justifies the need more from demand.
    • Needs the help downtown more.
    • Has an opportunity to create synergy where there was (and could be) none.
    • 14 years older, impossible to expand arena


    Calgary:
    • Only uses their arena for hockey
    • Has Stephen Ave and 17th street entertainment districts both fed by the Saddledowm
    • Has a culture of condo buying
    • Will not be able to unite weekdays (office towers) with evenings weekends (arena) nearly as closely because there isn't a plot of land large enough any closer than the Stampede anyways.


    I can't say I really disagree with your assessment of the deal, but I will say getting Edmonton's Downtown off the mat was going to take something drastic. The concrete globes on Jasper Avenue somehow didn't do it. Sure now it's in full construction swing, but it wasn't long ago that Century Park was selling more units than the entire core combined.

    Oh and thanks for changing the topic.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  64. #64

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    Just finishing up the reiteration & defense of why I'd sooner have Nenshi & the Drunks vs the City Council we had when the Arena deal went through & the current batch of clowns aren't any better.

    I hope Calgary's more business-oriented culture results in a more business-savvy electorate that won't fall for the same talk of trickle-down-economics & fringe benefits.

    Circle closed, back on track.

    (Your tireless, Pollyanna-esque outlook & Globetrotter level of spin you put on everything Edmonton-related are an endless source of amusement for me, even if I place no real value in your opinions JayBee. It reminds me of my own outlook 5-10 years ago & is a lovely contrast to my own views, even if we're diametrically opposed on almost everything. No disrespect intended, genuine compliment here, if a smidge backhanded)
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

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    I really like the location of Edmonton's arena, as well as the mixture of office towers, condos, shopping, restaurants that will be within this district.

    Although happy for Calgary to get another arena, but the Edmonton Arena District concept sounds more awesome.
    The world is full of kings and queens, who blind your eyes then steal your dreams.
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  66. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post

    (Your tireless, Pollyanna-esque outlook & Globetrotter level of spin you put on everything Edmonton-related are an endless source of amusement for me, even if I place no real value in your opinions JayBee. It reminds me of my own outlook 5-10 years ago & is a lovely contrast to my own views, even if we're diametrically opposed on almost everything. No disrespect intended, genuine compliment here, if a smidge backhanded)


    Er, thanks a lot....

    Let's make Edmonton better.

  67. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill View Post
    Although happy for Calgary to get another arena, but the Edmonton Arena District concept sounds more awesome.
    You are probably right, as Edmonton has more to gain from the move of it to downtown (it never made sense having the Arena in a slum, the comparable would be if they had built the Saddledome in Forest Lawn, or Marlborough Mall), but given the details of Calgary's haven't been announced yet, I think its to early to conclude that.
    Last edited by moahunter; 06-03-2015 at 12:36 PM.

  68. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill View Post
    I really like the location of Edmonton's arena, as well as the mixture of office towers, condos, shopping, restaurants that will be within this district.
    Same. The plan really is great, and seeing it come to life before our very eyes is fantastic.

    I suspect that when Calgary gets a new arena, it will be great as well, but they will do everything different than we did, just because Calgary tends to do everything different from us. Calgary is like the Bearded Spock universe to Edmonton's universe, or the Shelbyville to our Springfield.

  69. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
    Talk to the statistics that say Calgary is fully two thirds less cultured in all types of ticketed events, don't talk to me.
    Indeed. It's not just arena concerts - Edmonton attracts more concerts of all types.

    I have friends in Calgary who have to come up here 2 or 3 times a year to see bands play at the Shaw or Starlite Room simply because those tours don't tour through Calgary. AC/DC avoids Calgary like the plague as well, but they always come to Edmonton.

    I don't know what to attribute that to, but it has nothing to do with the Saddledome's roof.

  70. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    http://www.calgarysun.com/2015/03/04...ur-of-edmonton

    Shania Twain latest star to snub Calgary's aging Saddledome in favour of Edmonton

    It’s a Battle of Alberta we can never win — not while the aging, architecturally-challenged Saddledome remains the only large concert venue in town.

    And it’s not just Edmonton’s enviable musical fortune that’s leaving Calgary saddle sore over concert snubs like Shania Twain, Maroon 5 and Madonna.

    When Saskatoon proves a bigger concert draw than a city five times its size, the day has come for Calgary to realize a new arena is about a lot more than hockey games and padding the wallets of NHL millionaires.

    “The Saddledome has limitations, and the roof is an issue,” said said Ian Low, executive vice-president of talent for Live Nation, Canada’s largest concert promoter.

    It’s just more confirmation of a reality Calgary has been facing with for years, that the 32-year-old Saddledome is increasingly ill-suited to safely support the elaborate light and sound rigs that come with major world tours.

    The old arena is not ideal for music in any case, with odd sight lines and mausoleum-like acoustics, but that alone would never prevent the big acts from doing their thing — and indeed, those planning the tours say Calgary is one of the best cities to play.

    “The concert capacity of the venue is right on the mark, at 11,000, and we love the Calgary market,” said Low.

    “It’s a fantastic market for concerts, but there are limitations with the weight-load the roof can handle, and that’s the reality.”

    The cursed roof. The very thing that gives the Saddledome its name and iconic appearance is also the weakest link, unable to handle the heft of modern concert rigs.

    Some bands make do, using a reduced stage show and lights, but others acts just skip Calgary altogether, rather that sacrifice the giant screens and theatrics that are now essential to many major tours.
    So tell me who's now clueless? What's color is the sky in your dimension, JayBee and Gemini?
    Nobody said you were clueless (at least I never did). Even Calgary is saying the Saddledome is a fantastic market for concerts. What I am saying and tried to show you with Taylor Swifts touring venues is that artists pick cities and venues for their own profit margins. It does not make sence to me why Taylor Swift would have 1 concert in London, England with a population of 12 million people then have 2 in Greater Vancouver a city with a population of 2.4 million. Taylor Swift's promoters obviously think it's going to work for her as they would not have planned it that way.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  71. #71

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    ^ to be fair, that was me that called him clueless.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  72. #72

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    ^run................
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  73. #73
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    Don't worry, I'm done arguing with people with their heads up their anuses.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    Nobody said you were clueless (at least I never did). Even Calgary is saying the Saddledome is a fantastic market for concerts. What I am saying and tried to show you with Taylor Swifts touring venues is that artists pick cities and venues for their own profit margins. It does not make sence to me why Taylor Swift would have 1 concert in London, England with a population of 12 million people then have 2 in Greater Vancouver a city with a population of 2.4 million. Taylor Swift's promoters obviously think it's going to work for her as they would not have planned it that way.
    There are likely different factors though as to why some places get one night and others get two nights. Availability of venues for one - it's harder to book arena gigs when the NHL and NBA are in season. The performer's popularity in a certain market area (Swift is a household name in North America, not sure about Europe). There's probably cost savings for setting up, removal and transport of stage and equipment. Population draw, if promoters know very well that Calgarians will come to Edmonton for shows. I've noticed some big acts will play 2 nights in Edmonton - I've heard that one of those nights would have been intended for Calgary.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  74. #74

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    ^ hey cluefull, I wonder how the roof is on the Southern Alberta Jubilee auditorium and the Artec designed Jack Singer Concert Hall. I'm Sure™ that's the reason they undersell the NAJA and the Artec designed Winspear.

    How's the roof on the Calgary Opera festival and Jazz festival?

    Oh wait...
    Let's make Edmonton better.

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    I hardly ever post comments, but read this forum almost every day and this conversation is so dumb. It is 100% obvious that the only reason Calgary does not get some of the acts we do is the Saddledome's roof. It is not a difference in art and culture as some posters have mentioned. To compare our Fringe festivals is completely idiotic as the Edmonton Fringe has worked hard for decades to get where they are now. Calgarians are fully aware that Edmonton's Fringe is larger and do not mind the short drive to spend a few nice warm August evenings enjoying it (although if you have actually ever been to the Calgary Fringe, it is not even that bad). You think that major music stars like Lady Gaga and Madonna select cities based on the arts scene? Absolutely not. Had Madonna been able to hang her massive set from the Saddledome's roof, you can be certain she would be stopping in Calgary. Stars like that who want to make millions would never skip over one of the wealthiest cities in the country unless they absolutely had to. For world tours on the scale of Madonna, Lady Gaga, etc, it is all about MONEY!!
    Calgary has been dipping into the new arena pool for years, and if you haven't noticed, it always conveniently comes up in the news following Edmonton getting something better in the Arena category (the last time we heard about it was when Rogers Place was finally approved).
    The Saddledome is a nice arena - I have been to Flames games and a concert and there is absolutely nothing wrong with it except that the roof was designed with aesthetics being more important than functionality (the opposite of Rexall).

  76. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by East McCauley View Post
    ^A saddle? Oh right, been there, done that.
    The Calgary Stetsonplex
    I think of art, at its most significant, as a Distant Early Warning system that can always be relied on to tell the old culture what is beginning to happen to it. —Marshall McLuhan

  77. #77

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    Calgary Cowplex
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  78. #78
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    Its not as if the NHL didn't have a Cow Palace before ...
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cow_Palace

  79. #79
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    Cow Palace of Calgary

  80. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamEDM View Post
    It is 100% obvious that the only reason Calgary does not get some of the acts we do is the Saddledome's roof.
    I agree.

  81. #81

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    How is it that Cow pie hasn't been selected or served yet in this thread?

    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  82. #82
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    If you google image the Barclays Center I think it looks like a giant cow pie actually. Ugleee
    Last edited by Drumbones; 06-03-2015 at 04:23 PM.

  83. #83

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    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamEDM View Post
    I hardly ever post comments, but read this forum almost every day and this conversation is so dumb. It is 100% obvious that the only reason Calgary does not get some of the acts we do is the Saddledome's roof. It is not a difference in art and culture as some posters have mentioned. To compare our Fringe festivals is completely idiotic as the Edmonton Fringe has worked hard for decades to get where they are now. Calgarians are fully aware that Edmonton's Fringe is larger and do not mind the short drive to spend a few nice warm August evenings enjoying it (although if you have actually ever been to the Calgary Fringe, it is not even that bad). You think that major music stars like Lady Gaga and Madonna select cities based on the arts scene? Absolutely not. Had Madonna been able to hang her massive set from the Saddledome's roof, you can be certain she would be stopping in Calgary. Stars like that who want to make millions would never skip over one of the wealthiest cities in the country unless they absolutely had to. For world tours on the scale of Madonna, Lady Gaga, etc, it is all about MONEY!!
    Calgary has been dipping into the new arena pool for years, and if you haven't noticed, it always conveniently comes up in the news following Edmonton getting something better in the Arena category (the last time we heard about it was when Rogers Place was finally approved).
    The Saddledome is a nice arena - I have been to Flames games and a concert and there is absolutely nothing wrong with it except that the roof was designed with aesthetics being more important than functionality (the opposite of Rexall).
    Good for you that you only mention Gaga and Madonna. You know more about which shows were actually prohibited by the roof than you let on.



    And if you actually bought one of the 5,000 tickets at the C Fringe, congrats. I'm sure it's not "bad" at all, and strong props to all the hours and hours of hard work the staff, volunteers and artists put into it. May their toils be one year rewarded with the 120,000 tickets they deserve, like ours is.

    To insinuate and insult just as SDM and moa do that "Calgarians are wealthy therefore certainly it's not that they don't buy tickets" as a reason to ignore the simple fact they don't is ...

    ... well pick any one of your own adjectives.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

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    Edmonton have much much bigger advantage over Calgary over concerts because Rexall place and Rogers Place can take both and Calgary can only take one if they built new arena.
    Edmonton Rocks Rocks Rocks

  85. #85

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    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamEDM View Post
    I hardly ever post comments, but read this forum almost every day and this conversation is so dumb. It is 100% obvious that the only reason Calgary does not get some of the acts we do is the Saddledome's roof. It is not a difference in art and culture as some posters have mentioned. To compare our Fringe festivals is completely idiotic as the Edmonton Fringe has worked hard for decades to get where they are now. Calgarians are fully aware that Edmonton's Fringe is larger and do not mind the short drive to spend a few nice warm August evenings enjoying it (although if you have actually ever been to the Calgary Fringe, it is not even that bad). You think that major music stars like Lady Gaga and Madonna select cities based on the arts scene? Absolutely not. Had Madonna been able to hang her massive set from the Saddledome's roof, you can be certain she would be stopping in Calgary. Stars like that who want to make millions would never skip over one of the wealthiest cities in the country unless they absolutely had to. For world tours on the scale of Madonna, Lady Gaga, etc, it is all about MONEY!!
    Calgary has been dipping into the new arena pool for years, and if you haven't noticed, it always conveniently comes up in the news following Edmonton getting something better in the Arena category (the last time we heard about it was when Rogers Place was finally approved).
    The Saddledome is a nice arena - I have been to Flames games and a concert and there is absolutely nothing wrong with it except that the roof was designed with aesthetics being more important than functionality (the opposite of Rexall).


    Sometimes I go to shows in calgary(1-2a year( as I despise eds,reds, encore; not a big fan of the location of the Union hall. The shows I see in calgary I swear are full of people that have to save up all year to see" their" band. ( exept country acts; people are flush with cash!!). As much as calgary supposedly has"money" it does not show in the merchandise lines as hardly anyone can afford $40 t-shirts that support the bands yet edmonton goods are sold out in no time flat.

    My opinion is; calgary has a high average income BUT average joe/ Jane can't touch what we make in Edmonton which correlates into ability to spend.

  86. #86

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    Also on the radio it was mentioned 9 big shows only in Edmonton vs calgary in 2015 so far, not sure if this was mentioned.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamEDM View Post
    I hardly ever post comments, but read this forum almost every day and this conversation is so dumb. It is 100% obvious that the only reason Calgary does not get some of the acts we do is the Saddledome's roof. It is not a difference in art and culture as some posters have mentioned. To compare our Fringe festivals is completely idiotic as the Edmonton Fringe has worked hard for decades to get where they are now. Calgarians are fully aware that Edmonton's Fringe is larger and do not mind the short drive to spend a few nice warm August evenings enjoying it (although if you have actually ever been to the Calgary Fringe, it is not even that bad). You think that major music stars like Lady Gaga and Madonna select cities based on the arts scene? Absolutely not. Had Madonna been able to hang her massive set from the Saddledome's roof, you can be certain she would be stopping in Calgary. Stars like that who want to make millions would never skip over one of the wealthiest cities in the country unless they absolutely had to. For world tours on the scale of Madonna, Lady Gaga, etc, it is all about MONEY!!
    Calgary has been dipping into the new arena pool for years, and if you haven't noticed, it always conveniently comes up in the news following Edmonton getting something better in the Arena category (the last time we heard about it was when Rogers Place was finally approved).
    The Saddledome is a nice arena - I have been to Flames games and a concert and there is absolutely nothing wrong with it except that the roof was designed with aesthetics being more important than functionality (the opposite of Rexall).
    This does not explain as why many big name bands choose Edmonton over Calgary
    Edmonton Rocks Rocks Rocks

  88. #88

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    It does jagators. read it again

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    It does jagators. read it again
    I did read it all but still doesn't explain exactly why big name bands skip Calgary.

    He should have ask Shania Twain and Madonna why they skip Calgary ?? and they will tell him exactly why.


    but the answer is very clear.


    The Saddledome has limitations, and the roof is an issue,” said said Ian Low, executive vice-president of talent for Live Nation, Canada’s largest concert promoter.

    It’s just more confirmation of a reality Calgary has been facing with for years, that the 32-year-old Saddledome is increasingly ill-suited to safely support the elaborate light and sound rigs that come with major world
    Last edited by jagators63; 07-03-2015 at 09:42 AM.
    Edmonton Rocks Rocks Rocks

  90. #90

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    and that's exactly what GrahamEDM said. Go re-read his post.

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamEDM View Post
    ... You think that major music stars like Lady Gaga and Madonna select cities based on the arts scene? Absolutely not. Had Madonna been able to hang her massive set from the Saddledome's roof, you can be certain she would be stopping in Calgary. Stars like that who want to make millions would never skip over one of the wealthiest cities in the country unless they absolutely had to. For world tours on the scale of Madonna, Lady Gaga, etc, it is all about MONEY!!
    (snip)
    The Saddledome is a nice arena - I have been to Flames games and a concert and there is absolutely nothing wrong with it except that the roof was designed with aesthetics being more important than functionality (the opposite of Rexall).

  91. #91

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    There isn't "One Grand Reason To Unify Everything" that explains why so many acts skip Calgary, but:

    • According to the Saddledome's own spokesperson a few years ago, the roof only prohibits one or two tours per year at most. As Sonic Death Monkey so deftly provided, it didn't prohibit either the Rolling Stones or U2 (two huge acts.) As EdMGraham admitted, Madonna and Gaga are the only two anyone on here can actually cite.
    • Mcmahon Stadiums capacity probably helped AC/DC decide their sole Alberta stop, although it doesn't fully explain why they wouldn't play both cities.


    Okay so that's three. Out of 10. Actually out of eleven because Gaga wasn't even this year (or last year. Or the year before.)

    Like it, or freak out and cry and call names like SDM and Graham, you can't deny the guaranteed sell-outs to the scalping layer in Edmonton help our case.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

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    ^^^^ over 32 yrs history of Saddledome , Many big name bands skip Calgary because of this roof issue.

    Ian Low, executive vice-president of talent for Live Nation, Canada’s largest concert promoter knows better than anyone as why big name bands is skipping Calgary and goes to Edmonton.
    Edmonton Rocks Rocks Rocks

  93. #93

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    McMahon stadium has a noise restriction in place.

  94. #94

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    Okay, so we're still able to explain only three out of eleven.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  95. #95

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    I don't think its anything more than a venue issue. I'm sure some petty Edmontonians would love for it to be more than that, but really, its not.

  96. #96

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    But no reason other than an intentionally vague statement by a Livenation person to back you up, and covered only by insults?

    Thanks Mr expert.

    Next.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  97. #97

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    I think people are missing the bar here and I can't believe its not been mentioned or thought of.

    Edmonton is a hot concert destination because of demographics in play. This is Canada's version of "Cleveland Rocks" or "Detroit Rock City" A young population with good jobs with money to spend on rock or other shows. A demographic that goes to shows and has the wad of money in billfold to do so.

    Calgary may be more affluent, but the Money in Edmonton is more in the hands of people that demographically speaking would tend to support pop or rock shows. This is a burg that is virtually made for pollstar numbers and its indisputable and has been for a longtime. Even when Saddledome was young and Rexall considered decrepit it was still doing better numbers. Rexall always has.

    Next, even look at phenomenon like AC/DC sellouts. Stadium sells out here before anywhere else in Canada. That's a fact. They would sell out two shows at Commonwealth. This is a concert hotbed BECAUSE of the population demographic and specific distribution of working class wealth.

    Blue collar towns frequently support big ticket entertainment. This is a known.

    Statistically speaking these are some of the factors that make Edmonton a great concert town;

    High proportion of millennials.

    Significant proportion of well paid millennials.

    high male population

    Affluent market with huge disposable income.

    Mostly postgraduate population.

    All of the above being variables known to increase probability, and frequency of concert attendance. These are facts people.
    Last edited by Replacement; 07-03-2015 at 11:21 AM.
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  98. #98

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    ^ but you're evil if you suggest Edmonton's population is the real reason it's better.

  99. #99

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    Calgary have higher average salaries than Edmonton by a few thousands and they can pay much money to see a concert there. but most bands prefer Edmonton over Calgary over what reason ? is it a roof issue or ill-suited to safely support the elaborate light and sound rigs that come with major world ?? no clear answer for Saddledome.
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