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Thread: And here begins the mass layoffs

  1. #101

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    "Ralph cared about his people..." Yes he did, and all of them live/lived in Calgary.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ctzn-Ed View Post
    "Ralph cared about his people..." Yes he did, and all of them live/lived in Calgary.
    Where did I say "Ralph cared about his people?"
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  3. #103

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swillv8 View Post
    If I had money to flaunt I would! So are u a fan of exporting all manufacturing and every possible business that we can to 3rd world nation chasing bottom $$$$ because essentially that's an exaggerated proposal I'm understanding you advocate.
    No, I said government should invest in infrastructure, like universities / technical institutes and research organizations, so we can become higher skilled and more capable, to be able to work smarter to sustain a high wage economy. Not on a billion dollar project to make more oil boilers in an industry we are already over exosed to, to which there is excess capacity / no money to be made (if there was money to be made, private sector would be all over it).
    Last edited by moahunter; 11-01-2015 at 11:48 AM.

  4. #104

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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ctzn-Ed View Post
    "Ralph cared about his people..." Yes he did, and all of them live/lived in Calgary.
    Where did I say "Ralph cared about his people?"
    Read your own post #100. " Ralph cared for people, " in the very beginning.

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    ^ I never said his people. That was your added embellishment. Unfortunately I never met Kline.
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  6. #106

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    correct you didn't say "his", and it was not my intention to embellish it. However, it is Calgary that was his priority and Calgary only.

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    ^ He was born in Calgary of course he was biased but most of Alberta's Premiers were born outside of Alberta.
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    OK Ok can we please end the age old discussion of whether Klein cared for people, cats or Calgarians?

    This is a mass-layoff thread of today, not the 1990's.

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    ^ I'm ready to move on.
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  10. #110

    Smile Mass layoffs - the ups and downs of oil prices

    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    The economic bears are out! We seem to have swung from irrational optimism from irrational pessimism so quickly. It's amazing how quickly it can change.

    However, I do really like the quotes from Harry Truman about the difference between a recession and a depression and the quotes predicting lasting prosperity just in advance of the great depression. I think they illustrate two valuable points. First, economic prosperity or adversity is relative. Not everyone prospers in a boom and not every one suffers when things slow down. Second, the futility of trying to predict the economic future.
    ....
    We've been discussing this likelihood for years here on c2e. What is irrational is the lack of planning and anticipation for rare but possible occurrences. Some anticipation and preparation of such occurrences can dramatically reduce and mitigate the risks if not create opportunity.


    What are we going to do when oil prices collapse? (13-07-200
    http://www.connect2edmonton.ca/forum...ead.php?t=7872

    Strategy for next Recession/Depression (16-06-2006)
    http://www.connect2edmonton.ca/forum...read.php?t=480

    Housing Boom (25-08-2006)
    http://www.connect2edmonton.ca/forum...read.php?t=698
    There are obviously some very thoughtful people on this form. I wish they could provide me with the dates for the next big price swings, I could make a fortune on commodities trading.

    On a more serious note, I really wish the Provincial Government would pay more attention to thoughtful people, the price cycles for oil prices and budget accordingly. Maybe spending all the money that comes in when oil prices are high and having a tax regime that depends on $100/barrel oil is not so good an idea.

  11. #111

    Default Some good news for Alberta workers - Oil sands producers staying the course

    So at least for another year, mass layoffs are not in the cards. On the other hand, oil prices seems to be in for further sinking, affecting provincial budgets etc. To me, still an overall positive scenario...


    The Wall Street Journal, Jan 12, 2015
    As Oil Slips Below $50, Canada Digs In for Long Haul
    By: Chester Dowson


    ... On Monday, major producer Canadian Natural Resources Ltd. became the latest to underscore the resilience of oil-sands growth. The company said lower oil prices will force it to trim investment on new projects and curtail its growth forecast—but it still expects overall output to grow about 7% over 2014 levels, and it vowed to keep spending on expanding output at its biggest oil-sands mine over the next two years.
    ...
    Canadian Natural will continue expanding production because it expects higher volume will cut operating expenses at its mainstay Horizon mine, currently at 37.13 Canadian dollars a barrel, by at least another 10 Canadian dollars a barrel.
    ...
    “It’s not well understood just how robust the oil sands are. If you stopped expansion of the oil sands tomorrow, you would have no decline in the production base for decades,” Cenovus Chief Executive Brian Ferguson said. “What we do is design for 30-year flat production lives” at oil-sands fields, he said.
    ...
    Suncor, the single largest oil-sands producer, is boosting capital spending next year to at least C$7.2 billion and will lift output by as much as 11%. Canadian Natural plans to increase production of oil and natural-gas liquids 7% in 2015 and spend $C6.2 billion. Syncrude Canada Ltd., a consortium whose oil sands strip mines are operated by Exxon Mobil Corp. , projects a 6% gain in production next year to 103 million barrels of oil, or about 275,000 barrels a day.
    ...
    Oil-sands operators in Canada say they are confident demand for heavy oil-sands crude will continue to rise, especially from their best customer—the U.S., which is still the world’s largest consumer of oil. North America is awash in light crude oil fracked from shale formations, but U.S. refineries still need heavy crude.

  12. #112

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    Quote Originally Posted by FamilyMan View Post
    So at least for another year, mass layoffs are not in the cards. On the other hand, oil prices seems to be in for further sinking, affecting provincial budgets etc. To me, still an overall positive scenario...


    The Wall Street Journal, Jan 12, 2015
    As Oil Slips Below $50, Canada Digs In for Long Haul
    By: Chester Dowson


    ... On Monday, major producer Canadian Natural Resources Ltd. became the latest to underscore the resilience of oil-sands growth. The company said lower oil prices will force it to trim investment on new projects and curtail its growth forecast—but it still expects overall output to grow about 7% over 2014 levels, and it vowed to keep spending on expanding output at its biggest oil-sands mine over the next two years.
    ...
    Canadian Natural will continue expanding production because it expects higher volume will cut operating expenses at its mainstay Horizon mine, currently at 37.13 Canadian dollars a barrel, by at least another 10 Canadian dollars a barrel.
    ...
    “It’s not well understood just how robust the oil sands are. If you stopped expansion of the oil sands tomorrow, you would have no decline in the production base for decades,” Cenovus Chief Executive Brian Ferguson said. “What we do is design for 30-year flat production lives” at oil-sands fields, he said.
    ...
    Suncor, the single largest oil-sands producer, is boosting capital spending next year to at least C$7.2 billion and will lift output by as much as 11%. Canadian Natural plans to increase production of oil and natural-gas liquids 7% in 2015 and spend $C6.2 billion. Syncrude Canada Ltd., a consortium whose oil sands strip mines are operated by Exxon Mobil Corp. , projects a 6% gain in production next year to 103 million barrels of oil, or about 275,000 barrels a day.
    ...
    Oil-sands operators in Canada say they are confident demand for heavy oil-sands crude will continue to rise, especially from their best customer—the U.S., which is still the world’s largest consumer of oil. North America is awash in light crude oil fracked from shale formations, but U.S. refineries still need heavy crude.
    Yes, I agree. The big players appear to be able to still compete on volume when prices hurt their margins. As I said sometime earlier (rightly or wrongly), the beauty of shale in someone else's backyard, is that it requires much more constant effort (drilling, fracing and financing) to maintain and expand production. In that respect the tarsands are somewhere between conventional and shale production - that is between near straight extraction and something more approximating a manufacturing process.

    Nonetheless, in the late 1980s and early 1990s I used to track Alberta developments, at one point tracking every single major commercial and industrial project planned for Alberta and that entailed attending conferences to hear executives talk up their projects. I still clearly recall executives saying that; 'yes their oilsands project or whatever, was delayed but now it is a go ahead, for sure' - only to see it mothballed again in a few months.

    This time I do think it will be different but I'm watching battery, solar-wind, global warming and other developments or things that could derail oil demand/depletion scenarios over the next 20 - 30 yrs.

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  14. #114

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    Mexico wants more heavy crude business with the U.S.


    http://www.wallstreetdaily.com/2015/...s-heavy-crude/
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

  15. #115

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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesL View Post
    They used to call it "getting rid of the deadwood". ;-(

  16. #116

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    The economic bears are out! We seem to have swung from irrational optimism from irrational pessimism so quickly. It's amazing how quickly it can change.

    However, I do really like the quotes from Harry Truman about the difference between a recession and a depression and the quotes predicting lasting prosperity just in advance of the great depression. I think they illustrate two valuable points. First, economic prosperity or adversity is relative. Not everyone prospers in a boom and not every one suffers when things slow down. Second, the futility of trying to predict the economic future.
    ....
    We've been discussing this likelihood for years here on c2e. What is irrational is the lack of planning and anticipation for rare but possible occurrences. Some anticipation and preparation of such occurrences can dramatically reduce and mitigate the risks if not create opportunity.


    What are we going to do when oil prices collapse? (13-07-200
    http://www.connect2edmonton.ca/forum...ead.php?t=7872

    Strategy for next Recession/Depression (16-06-2006)
    http://www.connect2edmonton.ca/forum...read.php?t=480

    Housing Boom (25-08-2006)
    http://www.connect2edmonton.ca/forum...read.php?t=698
    There are obviously some very thoughtful people on this form. I wish they could provide me with the dates for the next big price swings, I could make a fortune on commodities trading.

    On a more serious note, I really wish the Provincial Government would pay more attention to thoughtful people, the price cycles for oil prices and budget accordingly. Maybe spending all the money that comes in when oil prices are high and having a tax regime that depends on $100/barrel oil is not so good an idea.
    If you are just piloting a rowboat you don't have to worry too much about avoiding obstacles ahead or in the worst case affecting too many lives. Pilot a cruiseliner though and you'd better neither expect to turn the ship on a dime nor be rewarded for totally incompetency and sinking the liner with all on board.

    Let me add; a good ship's captain will give all dangerous obstacles a wide berth.
    Last edited by KC; 13-01-2015 at 08:36 PM.

  17. #117

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    [QUOTE=KC;652340]
    Quote Originally Posted by JamesL View Post
    They used to call it "getting rid of the deadwood". ;-([/QU
    It still similiar; it's called "deadweight" now. Expect similiar with Syncrude as I just spoke to a couple of good acquaintence ms working there. They are cleaning house as well, so expect similiar results. In my interpretation, they made executive decission during more challenging times when one was warranted.

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    * Moderator edit*

    Post removed because there was no link to the news article's source.
    Last edited by ThomasH; 21-02-2015 at 09:24 AM.

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    This was on the news last night. Premier Jim at a luncheon yesterday was saying that we are not in a recession. I feel one is looming, July-ish? If so, this could go 1 of several ways: We could go the direction of the NEP, which sent Alberta's unemployment rate (ur) from 7.1% to about 5.% for about 15 years Alberta was in this recession. In 1985 Alberta had a 11.3% ur. I was here during those years but fortunately for me I was working during the 1980's and for the most part 1990's. The other way this current crisis could go is like in 2008-09 when oil prices were around $40. After 2009 oil prices inched there way up. Alberta enjoyed one of the lowest ur's in Canada for 17 years from about 1996 to present. The other way this could go is what the Saudis have said $70 oil by May. A lot's got to happen before then The US has got to turn the. shale oil taps off and SA has to cut production. They can ride this out but not for long

    http://www.stats.gov.nl.ca/Statistic.../UnempRate.pdf
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    Crude is up 5% today ($2.28/bbl), time to raise gas to $1.00 lol.

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    ^ Up today, down tomorrow and so on (keeps fingers crossed this is an upward trend) I hope I'm wrong but its going to get worse before it gets better.
    Last edited by envaneo; 14-01-2015 at 02:00 PM.
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  22. #122

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    @Kitlope:

    I am not underestimating the pressure we are facing, I have highlighted this in my earlier posts, when many people on this forum were in denial this price drop will persist. (for example read http://www.connect2edmonton.ca/forum...ad.php?t=34583, post #23, from 5-11-2014).

    What I am saying is that in the game of chicken that producers have started, every producer is waiting for others to get out of market first (shale producers saying we are still fine, Saudis saying we can go through this, now oil sands claiming same). At least for now, mass layoffs are not mentioned in oil sands. How long can oil sand producers weather this situation? My guess is next year will be the ugly one, but I hope I am wrong.

  23. #123

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    Quote Originally Posted by FamilyMan View Post
    @Kitlope:

    I am not underestimating the pressure we are facing, I have highlighted this in my earlier posts, when many people on this forum were in denial this price drop will persist. (for example read http://www.connect2edmonton.ca/forum...ad.php?t=34583, post #23, from 5-11-2014).

    What I am saying is that in the game of chicken that producers have started, every producer is waiting for others to get out of market first (shale producers saying we are still fine, Saudis saying we can go through this, now oil sands claiming same). At least for now, mass layoffs are not mentioned in oil sands. How long can oil sand producers weather this situation? My guess is next year will be the ugly one, but I hope I am wrong.
    Makes sense. To me though it's like going to war or entering some crisis. With enough lead time, up until the actual battles start there is much that can be done to both avoid and prepare for war. Once the battle has started the number of directly influencing variables (plus 2nd, 3rd and 4th order unintended consequences) shoots up dramatically. Things just run their course as strategies/counter-strategies get deployed and succeed or fail and get quickly replaced. I also assume that those that are best prepared have much improved odds coming out ahead.

    I wonder if some deal can't be worked out with the Saudis through OPEC where they cut production. Cutting production on a depleting resource and earning the same return while retaining reserves isn't such a bad position to be in. (Making it on volume is short sighted unless you feel the resource is going to be left behind by technology or conservation. Another coal.)

  24. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by FamilyMan View Post
    @Kitlope:
    At least for now, mass layoffs are not mentioned in oil sands. How long can oil sand producers weather this situation? My guess is next year will be the ugly one, but I hope I am wrong.
    I don't understand this statement. Today it was just announced 1000 jobs at Suncor, the largest oil sand company in Canada, are to be eliminated. That's roughly 7% of their 14 000 payroll. This is on top of the 300 at Shell.

    So how is it that mass layoffs are not mentioned (your words) when it was mentioned today in every news media organization in Canada? Does this not count as a mass layoff? Why did it happen now while oil is at $48.00 barrel and not 3 months ago? 6 months ago? Last year? The year before that? Why now?

    Probably because the layoffs are directly tied into the current price of oil.

    I know this thread with it being the subject of mass layoffs strikes as being doom & gloom, pessimistic and dark, but that's the nature of the subject and regardless of what I post, how I dress it up or what anyone else post's, it will always come off that way. I just wanted a place to link stories of people losing their jobs en masse within the natural resource sector, due to the low price of oil. I think it will help give a broad picture of what we're about to go through as a province.

    Hopefully oil goes back up but if it hovers around the current price for the year, or even improves another 10 or 20 bucks, quite frankly we haven't seen anything yet. For non oilsands, spring break up is coming as it does every year and if things don't improve there will be a lot of workers not returning to their jobs come late summer. Come late next fall, we'll all start having a pretty good idea of the extent of what the low prices have done.

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    And just to add, I realize that things can change overnight if the Saudi's change their production tune. But that's a big maybe and a big what if.

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    Probably be a war and oil will go back up.

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    Yeah, that can happen too. When are the Republicans due back in office? November 2016?

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    *Moderator edit*

    Post removed because there was no link to the news article's source.
    Last edited by ThomasH; 21-02-2015 at 09:25 AM.

  29. #129

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    Our difference is only the threshold that qualifies as mass layoff. As your post above also mentions, so far there is still activity going on. As my post from WSJ also pointed out, projects that have past the upfront capital investments will most likely remain active for the time being. So, to me, this is not "mass" layoff. In any case, I appreciate how tough it can be for every single individual losing his/her job.

  30. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitlope View Post
    Yeah, that can happen too. When are the Republicans due back in office? November 2016?
    And sounding more and more like the Bush family will be back in power. JEB. Tough thought for some except their Texas oil friends and military supply companies. Would be good for Alberta too tho.
    Last edited by Drumbones; 14-01-2015 at 08:23 PM.

  31. #131

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    ^^ A thousand workers would say you are wrong. 2,000 additional family members, supplies and business owners who are directly affected by the layoffs also agree that this is a mass layoff.

    As the thread is titled, this is only the beginning.

    If oil prices stay down for 6 months, be prepared for your home to loose 25% of its value. Many home owners will go under water.
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  32. #132
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    Our difference is only the threshold that qualifies as mass layoff. As your post above also mentions, so far there is still activity going on.
    You don't consider the announcement of 1000 people all working for the same corporation getting the pink slip not a mass layoff?

    To each his own opinion but personally I think it's absurd to not consider it a mass layoff. And yes, of course there's activity currently going on, I mean this uber slide in oil just started what, the last 8 weeks? Even less? (I'm not counting from the high of $107 in June, I'm talking from when the price started cratering).

    It's not what's happening today that's the issue, it's what's going to occur come spring and for months and possibly years after. As Replacement said in post #4, get your personal finances in order because if this drags out it's gonna get ugly. Lampier, just an hour ago, posted an opinion on this very subject.

    Lamphier: Free-spending Albertans are in for a shock

    EDMONTON - Light crude oil prices rallied Wednesday, posting the biggest percentage gain in 2-1/2 years to close at $48.48 US a barrel.

    But it’s a tad early to blow up the party balloons. Most analysts attributed the uptick to technical factors, and expect the seven-month-long rout in crude prices to resume in short order.

    Since oil prices began to slide last summer, analysts have steadily slashed their forecasts. Three months ago, almost no one predicted sub-$50 crude oil.
    Find the rest over here:
    http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/...932/story.html
    Last edited by ThomasH; 21-02-2015 at 09:26 AM.

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    It's the same scary thing again, I have been through it a few times too. There is always this feeling of regret. I should have done this or that, now I may be in trouble. It's scary each time. I hope these construction projects keep going for the jobs. I know the temporary foreign worker program is being nixed, and now those jobs may be needed by us. Sure glad I don't have rent or a mortgage payment but I have a lot of bills too. (chews nails)

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    Again, this won't be the last time we experience this type of cycle. I look back at 2009 and how we managed to get out of that ALOT quicker than anyone could have predicted. And we'll pull out of this one. In fact, I am willing to bet that we'll recover from this dip quicker than 2009 considering the world around us isn't falling to pieces.

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    ^ I totally agree but excuse me while I do a shoulder check here and there in the meantime.
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  36. #136
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    Posting this to remind the doubters that mass layoffs are indeed occurring all over the continent, especially in the conventional and fracking fields. From Bloomberg, Jan 14 2015:

    Gravy Train Derails for Oil Patch Workers Laid Off in Downturn

    The first thing oilfield geophysicist Emmanuel Osakwe noticed when he arrived back at work before 8 a.m. last month after a short vacation was all the darkened offices.

    By that time of morning, the West Houston building of his oilfield services company was usually bustling with workers. A couple hours later, after a surprise call from Human Resources, Osakwe was adding to the emptiness: one of thousands of energy industry workers getting their pink slips as crude prices have plunged to less than $50 a barrel.

    “For the oil and gas industry, it’s scary,” Osakwe said in an interview after he was laid off last month from a unit of Halliburton Co. (HAL), which he joined in September 2013. “I was blind to the ups and downs associated with the industry.”

    It’s hard to blame him. The oil industry has been on a tear for most of the past decade, with just a brief timeout for the financial crisis. As of November, oil and gas companies employed 543,000 people across the U.S., a number that’s more than doubled from a decade ago, according to data kept by Rigzone, an employment company servicing the energy industry.

    Stunned by the sudden plunge in the price of oil, energy companies have increasingly resorted to layoffs to cut costs since Christmas, shocking a new generation of workers, like Osakwe, unfamiliar with the industry’s historic boom and bust cycles.
    (...)
    “That car payment still comes around,” said Richardson, who now checks oil prices more than four times a day.
    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2015-0...-downturn.html

  37. #137
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    Default Harvest Blackgold SAGD

    I'm hearing from an acquaintance that Harvest has laid off most if not all contract staff and will put off first steaming at its Blackgold SAGD project indefinitely. Getting ugly

  38. #138

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    Schlumberger laying off 9000 worldwide. Huge presence in Calgary and some in Edmonton too

  39. #139

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    On a positive note multiple mod yards we be ramping up for the northwest refinery. I just started a week ago and they plan on 900 men plus office staff. Kbr, pcl, and Cbi will be looking at similar manpower needs also 18-24 months of work at 50plus hrs a week at $40-50 an he for tradesmen

  40. #140

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    http://oilpro.com/post/9729/oil-serv...-just-got-real

    The world's biggest oilfield service provider, Schlumberger, is reacting swiftly and decisively to a new, lower-oil price paradigm.

    On Thursday afternoon, Schlumberger announced that it is eliminating 9,000 positions from its workforce. That's about 7% of its ~123,000 employee staff.

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    Already mentioned in post 138. Im afraid if the price keeps sliding downward all these layoffs may just be the tip of the iceberg.

  42. #142

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    was just posting the article in case anyone wanted to read.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    http://oilpro.com/post/9729/oil-serv...-just-got-real

    The world's biggest oilfield service provider, Schlumberger, is reacting swiftly and decisively to a new, lower-oil price paradigm.

    On Thursday afternoon, Schlumberger announced that it is eliminating 9,000 positions from its workforce. That's about 7% of its ~123,000 employee staff.
    I had read the article. It was posted on my Facebook page this morning by my sister, it's an interesting read, kind of gives me the shivers tho. The comments are interesting to read.
    Last edited by Drumbones; 16-01-2015 at 05:03 PM.

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    During the 15 years I lived in Calgary, mostly working in oilpatch offices, I think I encountered about three up and down cycles. I was largely insulated because I was a temp / contractor. But I have several memories of departments emptying out, sometimes quite illogically. Sometimes they'd wind up hiring contractors at way more per hour to get the work done.

    Thing about oil patch companies is they've gotten very very good at dispensing with large numbers of employees (and later hiring them back). I expect the layoff notices as soon as the financials show a downward trend.

    If I could tell how long this little game of chicken was going to last, I'd be rich of course. There are things that worry me about this current round. But we've been here before. Does not make it easier for those folks who are having the rug pulled out from under them.

    Eve

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    I have this funny feeling alot of companies are taking the oppurtunity to clean out the bottom performing employees. In a large company the bottom 7% that we see getting the axe are largely just fluff...

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    Yeah, I saw one of those situations at a company where I contracted. The people I knew were let go, were the exact ones I would have gotten rid of. One of them: "They can't let me go, I've been here for ages and always shown up to work on time."

    Eve

  47. #147

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    ^^ large numbers of scale, scary as hell, unfortunate for many but 1out of 10 does not sound to bad when in 99% work environments there is more then that for deadweight.

    Obviously not as simplistic as such a general rationalization

  48. #148

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swillv8 View Post
    ^^ large numbers of scale, scary as hell, unfortunate for many but 1out of 10 does not sound to bad when in 99% work environments there is more then that for deadweight.

    Obviously not as simplistic as such a general rationalization
    Management sometimes hires excessive lower management to put someone between them and career threatening circumstances. Spending a few hundred thousand on an insurance plan to protect their income stream and future bonuses.

    A.K.A the proverbial deadwood, which on trees starts at the trunk and spreads across the whole tree and only excludes the newest green shoots.
    Last edited by KC; 17-01-2015 at 08:22 AM.

  49. #149

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    ^ good one

    Oilsands project management is identical to a tailings pond... The scum rises to the top Lololol

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    I doubt that the previous posts are an accurate assessment of the situation and that many good hard working men and women are and will be getting layed off now and in the next several months.

  51. #151

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    I have no doubt, it won't be trimming of fat in some of these organizations but whole departments shut down.

    I know a few people at Albian sands (shell in dt Mac). They said their hours are being scaled back as cost savings which is better then laying good staff off

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    The funny thing is there's still some people in denial even though thousands have already been let go, one company just cut 9000 jobs (does that count as a mass layoff lol) and later in the year the repercussions will start rearing it's ugly head in the conventional sector.

    I get the point of optimism but then a little thing called reality makes an appearance.

    This is the price of low oil and some people just don't get it. Until they lose their job.

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    ^ that 9000 jobs layoff was worldwide not just Canada
    be offended! figure out why later...

  54. #154

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    I doubt that the previous posts are an accurate assessment of the situation and that many good hard working men and women are and will be getting layed off now and in the next several months.
    I've never agreed with all the typecasting that goes on and the labelling and spin. It's all pretty much stupid thoughtless stereotyping of people that haven't succeeded a some particular time and place. The only time those stereotypes seem to lessen is when the people typically promoting them face losing their own jobs. Then suddenly it's not their fault like it was everyone's own fault before them, but suddenly it's the fault of someone or something else like the economy. There' is a lot of simple luck involved in life and success but in our world we want to think everyone is fully accountable for their own situation.

  55. #155

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    Lay off the workers, give multi-million dollar bonus to the upper management for improving the bottom line. When it's time to start hiring, outsource as much as you can to Asia.

  56. #156

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Lay off the workers, give multi-million dollar bonus to the upper management for improving the bottom line. When it's time to start hiring, outsource as much as you can to Asia.
    Yeah, a decade ago that was all the rage as we watched management salaries go up to incredible multiples of the average american worker's wage. Anyone can manage that way - and if anyone deserves a bonus for that, it's the pioneers at doing it - not all the followers too.

    Outsourcing to China Cost U.S. 3.2 Million Jobs Since 2001
    New research shows that more than three-quarters of jobs lost were in manufacturing.
    http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/dat...obs-since-2001

  57. #157

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitlope View Post
    The funny thing is there's still some people in denial even though thousands have already been let go, one company just cut 9000 jobs (does that count as a mass layoff lol) and later in the year the repercussions will start rearing it's ugly head in the conventional sector.

    I get the point of optimism but then a little thing called reality makes an appearance.

    This is the price of low oil and some people just don't get it. Until they lose their job.
    The reality is... you are jumping the gun. It is natural for a small percentage to get laid off as the respective companies allocate expenditures annually. Since oil is low at this moment, they reduce their spendings. If, per se, Shell or Suncor laid off 50% of their work force then yes we would have joined your bandwagon; i, too, believe this was their opportunities to dust a little. Nobody on here is in denial, and nobody has denied that there could be a futher outcome if oil price conintue it's downpath.

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    ^ Agreed. Most posters have been saying this is a 2008-2009 reboot.
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  59. #159

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    Quote Originally Posted by ctzn-Ed View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Kitlope View Post
    The funny thing is there's still some people in denial even though thousands have already been let go, one company just cut 9000 jobs (does that count as a mass layoff lol) and later in the year the repercussions will start rearing it's ugly head in the conventional sector.

    I get the point of optimism but then a little thing called reality makes an appearance.

    This is the price of low oil and some people just don't get it. Until they lose their job.
    The reality is... you are jumping the gun. It is natural for a small percentage to get laid off as the respective companies allocate expenditures annually. Since oil is low at this moment, they reduce their spendings. If, per se, Shell or Suncor laid off 50% of their work force then yes we would have joined your bandwagon; i, too, believe this was their opportunities to dust a little. Nobody on here is in denial, and nobody has denied that there could be a futher outcome if oil price conintue it's downpath.
    I'm afraid the gun has already been fired - by the Saudis. Now we can just speculate as to who gets taken out and the collateral damage which depends on factors beyond the control of anyone here. Also, every crisis is an opportunity for someone to pick up businesses and other assets on the cheap, merge companies, break up companies, etc. Unfortunately in situations like this, where people thought it couldn't hsppen, and then it does, the politicians and every vested interest starts playing the confidence game saying it's not so bad and can't get worse when in fact they have no clue of the future. (Worse, those same people talk a good story while often while protecting themselves behind everyone's back).

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    The reality is... you are jumping the gun. It is natural for a small percentage to get laid off as the respective companies allocate expenditures annually. Since oil is low at this moment, they reduce their spendings. If, per se, Shell or Suncor laid off 50% of their work force then yes we would have joined your bandwagon; i, too, believe this was their opportunities to dust a little. Nobody on here is in denial, and nobody has denied that there could be a futher outcome if oil price conintue it's downpath.
    No, I'm not jumping the gun. If oil prices don't improve, there's going to be some trouble come year end. Not quite now, at this particular time I agree - but year end.

    That's my point.

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    that 9000 jobs layoff was worldwide not just Canada
    I know. The point was that there's 9000 less jobs, wherever it may be in the world, due to the lousy price of oil.

    I don't think oil cares where you're from.

  62. #162

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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    ^ Agreed. Most posters have been saying this is a 2008-2009 reboot.
    I tend to think the same but again I can't predict the future. Can they?


    As an aside - regarding this confidence game and crises like 2008/2009:

    "Lesson #18: Government Officials Don’t Know Anything
    When a government official says that a problem has been “contained”, it’s a contrarian signal. Pay no attention."

    source: Seth Klarman: Twenty Lessons the 2008 Crash Can Teach You About Investing
    http://www.valuewalk.com/2014/12/set...sting-lessons/


    ~
    Last edited by KC; 19-01-2015 at 07:53 AM.

  63. #163

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitlope View Post
    that 9000 jobs layoff was worldwide not just Canada
    I know. The point was that there's 9000 less jobs, wherever it may be in the world, due to the lousy price of oil.

    I don't think oil cares where you're from.
    Schlumberger is massive though, and tends to be bigger outside north america. Haliburton and Baker Huges combined will be less than half the size of it. 9,000 probably isn't much different from their normal attrition, I suspect some of these "lay offs" so far, have been mostly house keeping companies were planning to do anyway.

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    9,000 probably isn't much different from their normal attrition, I suspect some of these "lay offs" so far, have been mostly house keeping companies were planning to do anyway.
    Moa, why now then? Why not just 3 months ago? 6 months? Last year? The year before that? The previous years before that?

    I wouldn't call laying off almost 10 000 employee's just "housekeeping".

  65. #165

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    At in a month or two, most of the layoffs we will see will be the typical spring melt layoffs we see every year. Guarantee those will be ignorantly spun differently though.

  66. #166

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitlope View Post
    Moa, why now then? Why not just 3 months ago? 6 months? Last year? The year before that? The previous years before that?.
    Because its a good excuse, they can do it now without the blame being on them / it being spun as a negative story (blame oil, blame economy, etc.). I do think there will be significant lay offs if oil prices stay down, I just don't think this is it, it will be a lot more for a company this size.

  67. #167

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Kitlope View Post
    Moa, why now then? Why not just 3 months ago? 6 months? Last year? The year before that? The previous years before that?.
    Because its a good excuse, they can do it now without the blame being on them / it being spun as a negative story (blame oil, blame economy, etc.). I do think there will be significant lay offs if oil prices stay down, I just don't think this is it, it will be a lot more for a company this size.
    If that's how they run their business, it doesn't say much for the rationality of the private sector or their management. "Sorry shareholders, we have to wait for a crisis so we have an excuse to 'right size' our company." So how many years have they gone without actually managing their workforce?

  68. #168

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    "Sorry shareholders, we have to wait for a crisis so we have an excuse to 'right size' our company."
    Whereas if they cut a ton of staff during a good year, even if they are "dead wood", shareholders might lose money if people would incorrectly assume the cuts are because there are no good investment opportunites or similar, resulting in a share price drop. Executives often try to time bad news for "at once" or when competitors are also struggling, with a view to maintaining the wealth of their shareholders (and themselves if they have stock options). This is a good time for house cleaning in oil and gas.
    Last edited by moahunter; 19-01-2015 at 12:30 PM.

  69. #169
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    I was wondering if we were going to get out of this week without another announcement. I know, I know, these are worldwide jobs and not just Canada, or specifically Alberta... regardless there will be some layoffs here. Analysts figure about 300 - 500 jobs as said in the article.

    Oil services giant Baker Hughes to lay off 7,000 workers

    Oil services company Baker Hughes Inc. will lay off about 7,000 workers — likely including hundreds in Canada — as it prepares for a downturn in orders because of the plunge in crude prices, the company said Tuesday.

    The layoffs represent about an 11 per cent cut to the 62,000-plus workers Baker Hughes says it employs worldwide.
    Find the rest over here:
    http://www.edmontonjournal.com/busin..._lsa=2da6-e266
    Last edited by ThomasH; 21-02-2015 at 09:28 AM.

  70. #170

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    Meanwhile, Schlumberger Ltd., said they have bought a Russian oil company for $1.7Billion

    Layoffs on one hand, while big oil companies grow even larger.
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  71. #171
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    Reduced drilling for Oil and Natural Gas to reduce 2,705 direct jobs and 15,554 indirect jobs in Canada - 2015 vs. 2014 levels.

    http://www.caodc.ca/caodc-forecast-2015

  72. #172

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    And a positive article for edmonton region.

    http://www.edmontonjournal.com/touch...ml?rel=1419033

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swillv8 View Post
    And a positive article for edmonton region.

    http://www.edmontonjournal.com/touch...ml?rel=1419033
    Great article. I like this:

    "North West Redwater Partnership, which is building the $8.5-billion Sturgeon Refinery."

    I thought this was put on hold.
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  74. #174

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    Site was actually green lighted late spring last year actually, underground is going on now, mod yards are going to be crazy busy for 18plus months ramping up this March. ( between 5 or so major companies I'd bet at least 1000 tradesmen are on sites now.

    Capital powes G3/G4 will need over 1000 people for their to co-gens also I know iron workers that went out in October ( even tho regulatory approval just got announced). This I could see being shelved yet tho( they cancelled a started G4 ( coal fire even! Last one that could have been built under federal regulations)in 2008.

    As much as aed seems like an employer it's nothing as big as industrial projects in and around Edmonton

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    ^ I keep hearing this from colleagues but never thought to ask but what is a mod yard?
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  76. #176

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    Mod= module.

    A module Is a steel frame. Let's use a typical size, 120feet long. A total height 24feet? 20feet wide.This will sit on pile caps 36x36inches out of the ground 6"-36" ( depending on site grade). These will be broken into levels with beams 2-3 levels high with beams connecting to columns. Very very basic! In the "mods" are pipes( some will be straight with flanges on both ends for quick connecting , others can have expansion loops for expansion and contraction for live loads,( jogs are labour intensive) then electrical trays( imagine aluminum ladders with 8" sides that cable run into. Lots of other details many trades involved. Ironworkers, pipe fitters, welders, scaffolders, insulators, electricians, labours, non destructive technicians,inspectors (quality control). And respective supervision.

    Some big companies that have a piece of the northwest upgrader pie are
    Pcl
    Kbr
    Aecon
    Cbi Horton , these are contractors, I'm working for aecon which is union, and the companies I listed are Union, and the engineering firms behind 2 contracts on the mod yard I'm at are Worley parsons and fluer

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    ^ Thanks for taking the time to clear this up. (Vague at this point but; Would you know a Nathan R?)
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  78. #178

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    I've worked in mod yards 4 times 3 different companies

    I've asked a few people( most are worker bees ( even supervision) and really no one knows the complete scope of these major sites. There are a 1000 mods? I reallyl don't know but this is substantial $$$ for Edmontons economy
    99

    To put it in perspective,
    Where would you go to get a movie made? Hollywood of course! They have the expertise!
    Alberta is like this on our oil,not only do we have it we have the expertise(besides texas; notice how our low cost bitumen is being pushed to go to extreme low cost texas ?we have the knowlagable and eager workforce. Edmonton has been known as an overall wearing city, calgary as a sports jacket city but as a tradesmen I can't buy a job down there( slight exaggeration)

    If calgary had the workers they would build billions every year down there vs here. Not sure how many on this site are familiar with the outsourcing of canadian work to oversees especially Korea, but keal lake was an epic fail( blamed mostly on Canadians of course)

  79. #179

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    ^^ lol there are 10's of thousands working in the trades related to o&eg in Alberta just for bitumen. But no I can't think of any Nathan's. I stick to smaller sites, money sites, sites that let u work vs being blinded by safety.

  80. #180

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    Evaneo, if you ever head out to the aiport, on your left side on highway 2 ( about 5-7 minutes away) from the first overpast, you will see PCL's modyard. You'll see steel structure and those are what SwillV8 is talking about. There a many companies producing this, but they all look the same. They can be up to 60-70 feet high.

  81. #181

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swillv8 View Post
    I've worked in mod yards 4 times 3 different companies

    I've asked a few people( most are worker bees ( even supervision) and really no one knows the complete scope of these major sites. There are a 1000 mods? I reallyl don't know but this is substantial $$$ for Edmontons economy
    99

    To put it in perspective,
    Where would you go to get a movie made? Hollywood of course! They have the expertise!
    Alberta is like this on our oil,not only do we have it we have the expertise(besides texas; notice how our low cost bitumen is being pushed to go to extreme low cost texas ?we have the knowlagable and eager workforce. Edmonton has been known as an overall wearing city, calgary as a sports jacket city but as a tradesmen I can't buy a job down there( slight exaggeration)

    If calgary had the workers they would build billions every year down there vs here. Not sure how many on this site are familiar with the outsourcing of canadian work to oversees especially Korea, but keal lake was an epic fail( blamed mostly on Canadians of course)
    Outsourcing... yes. Suck our blood and reward others thinking it would be cheap, and in the long run, we have to fix the built.

  82. #182

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    Here's how Germany behaved in a crisis ...

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...5263/?page=all


    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Read this article the other day on Germany. It's pretty interesting...



    "While the rest of Europe is just beginning to crawl out of crisis and into the first tentative rays of growth and recovery, Germany is positively booming... Germany has actually seen unemployment fall this year to 7 per cent, below Spain’s boom-time level

    A big part of Germany’s resilience can be found in factory towns like these and in the weekly pay statements of workers like Andreas Schieve.

    In most other European countries, Mr. Schieve would have been laid off in late 2008, when the credit-driven economic downturn hit Europe hard and orders for this plant’s commercial trucks dried up. Orders fell from 60,000 trucks a year to around 30,000, and the work force should have been slashed to match – more than 1,000 layoffs.

    But Germany did something different. While its neighbouring countries spent hundreds of billions bailing out banks, financing infrastructure and stimulating the economy, Chancellor Angela Merkel’s conservative-liberal coalition government also took a very large, unique gamble by spending huge sums of money bailing out its work force.

    In a system known as kurzarbeit..."

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle1659177/

    source: Doug Saunders, The maintenance of hope: Germany's secret to recovery, Mail Aug 1, 2010


    Recovery: What's Germany's secret? | The Economist
    Excerpt:
    "... This is all very nice, but it's worth pointing out that Germany's programme of fiscal stimulus was among the largest in Europe (across developed nations). Germany's unemployment rate is low, and it declined through some of the worst portions of the recession, but it's important to point out that this is due in part to an ambitious work-sharing arrangement, in which employers are encouraged to reduce individual hours worked rather than lay off employees. This policy certainly helps to mitigate job losses during a downturn (which makes for great countercyclical policy, and which reduces the fiscal cost of recession) but it's more likely to delay necessary structural reforms than accelerate them."
    http://www.economist.com/blogs/freee.../07/recovery_1


    ~
    Last edited by KC; 24-01-2015 at 09:38 PM.

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    ^ Also, the US economy is doing great.
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    Stantec has laid off about 800 in the Edmonton area over the past year. Gradually.

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    ^ A colleague of mine is one of their designers that got laid off around September. Maybe Stantec ought to hold off on building that tower.
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  86. #186

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    Cenovus Energy makes $700-million cut to 2015 spending budget
    Company planning to reduce size of contract workforce in coming weeks
    "The company says it plans to reassign employees to core areas in coming weeks and begin reducing the size of its contract workforce, but didn't provide details on how many people will be affected."

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...dget-1.2934524
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  87. #187

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    Well, this is too bad - hate to see Calgary unevenly hit when we're all on the same team.


    ENTREC Closes Calgary Branch, Cuts Workforce
    JAN. 28, 2015

    "Crane-operator ENTREC Corporation will close its Calgary branch, folding it into the company’s Acheson, Alberta branch, and cut its salaried workforce, reducing costs by $4 million to $5 million annually, management said this morning."

    http://www.dailyoilbulletin.com/arti...ofiJjY8%2bRS3H

  88. #188

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    i am in a very small town in the north and there were a number of layoffs last week, apparently 7 families are having to leave town - since most of the housing is owned by their employer, a coworker was laid off from her other job, another coworker's boyfriend hasn't been getting much work at all and they might be moving back to nova scotia, not a very happy town right now, as the big emploer is cutting jobs all the other companies in town are affected and they too are cutting jobs

  89. #189

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    Quote Originally Posted by SpongeG View Post
    i am in a very small town in the north and there were a number of layoffs last week, apparently 7 families are having to leave town - since most of the housing is owned by their employer, a coworker was laid off from her other job, another coworker's boyfriend hasn't been getting much work at all and they might be moving back to nova scotia, not a very happy town right now, as the big emploer is cutting jobs all the other companies in town are affected and they too are cutting jobs
    I can't imagine the impact on small towns. It very sad. I'm here in Edmonton and I take my daughter to her grade three class everyday and see all these little kids that have come here from all over the world. I sit on the parent advisory assoc and last week it was mentioned how many countries are represented in the school and the record number of ESL students now attending. It's a real source of pride. So it's sickening to think that if oil prices don't turn around soon and layoffs spread, many of those young kids may be leaving with their parents as the parents abandon Edmonton to seek work elsewhere or those families may face a lot of hardship having already moved across the globe.

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    Our nephew was just hired back. to Fort Mac He lives near Airdrie

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    Quote Originally Posted by AAAAE View Post
    Stantec has laid off about 800 in the Edmonton area over the past year. Gradually.
    These layoffs were primarily related to losing some major work, not primarily the result of the slumping price of oil.

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    ^ Correct. I colleague of mine here in Edmonton was a designer for Stantec and got laid off in May of last year and it had nothing to do with oil prices.
    Last edited by envaneo; 07-02-2015 at 06:42 PM.
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  93. #193

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    Just a cross-reference to another thread...

    Shaw to close Edmonton contact centre
    http://www.connect2edmonton.ca/forum...ad.php?t=36793

    Quote Originally Posted by Perspective View Post
    Shaw Communications Realigns Customer Service Operations to Enhance Customer Care

    Impacted employees in Calgary, Edmonton and Kelowna offered relocation to contact centres expanding in Victoria, Vancouver, Winnipeg and Montreal Shaw reaffirms commitment to maintain all customer care operations in Canada

    ....About 1,600 employees in Shaw's customer care operations in Calgary, Edmonton and Kelowna will be offered the choice of:

    -- relocating to one of Shaw's expanding contact centres, with the
    assistance of a package of $7,500 to help them move,
    -- the opportunity to take on new roles in their current location, or
    -- a generous severance package well in excess of the statutory
    requirements that recognizes their tenure and contributions to the
    company.
    http://www.marketwatch.com/story/sha...k=MW_news_stmp

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    A chance to move to Victoria would be nice.

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    Especially if you've been working for Shaw for any length of time.
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    I wouldn't consider the Shaw layoffs in the same breath as what this thread is about. It sounds like all of these jobs will just be moved to another city anyways, so no real layoff.

    This, on the other hand...

    Halliburton oilfield layoffs expected to affect hundreds in Alberta

    Hundreds of Alberta oilfield workers are expected to be caught in a new round of up to 6,200 job cuts confirmed Tuesday by giant Houston-based Halliburton Co. in reaction to plunging levels of drilling activity in Canada and the U.S. driven by falling oil and gas prices.

    Also Tuesday, Calgary-based private oilfield services company Sanjel Corp. said it has been laying off staff over the past several weeks from its workforce of between 4,000 and 4,100 and has imposed an across-the-board salary cut of between five and 10 per cent.

    The confirmed layoffs could be the tip of the iceberg — in January, the Canadian Association of Oilwell Drilling Contractors predicted an average of 167 fewer drilling rigs will be active this year in Canada, resulting in 23,000 fewer direct and indirect jobs than in 2014. Statistics Canada said Friday 13,000 jobs have been lost in the natural resources sector in Alberta since September.
    Find the rest over here:
    http://www.edmontonjournal.com/busin..._lsa=88aa-1ffe
    Last edited by ThomasH; 21-02-2015 at 09:17 AM.

  97. #197
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    110 union workers to lose jobs as Esco Corp. closes Nisku foundry, blaming mining slowdown

    A foundry in Nisku that manufactures steel parts for oilsands mining equipment will close in August, throwing 110 unionized employees out of work.

    Portland, Ore.-based Esco Corp. announced the plant closing Tuesday, blaming it on a downturn in the mining industry.

    “After a peak in 2012, global demand for mining products continues to soften,” Jeff Kershaw, president of Esco’s mining division, said in a news release.
    Find the rest over here:
    http://www.edmontonjournal.com/busin..._lsa=88aa-1ffe
    Last edited by ThomasH; 21-02-2015 at 09:17 AM.

  98. #198

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    I still remember the government talking up the need for nurses in the late 1980s or early 1990s and then year or two later laying them off and telling grads they had no work for them in the province. (It was a lot like digging ditches and filling them in - digging a hole in our fiscal wallet and those of young students committing to the wrong program and then having to fill it in.)


    Alberta health-care cuts could have long-term impact
    Salary freeze, tighter severance packages and change to cellphone policy some of the cost cutting measures
    CBC News Posted: Feb 06, 2015
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...pact-1.2947838

    Starting with the contract workers...

    Cenovus to slash jobs, freeze pay as losses deepen on oil price tumble
    Reuters, Feb. 12 2015

    "Cenovus Energy Inc, Canada’s second-largest independent oil producer, reported a quarterly loss that ballooned eight times and said it would cut 15 per cent jobs, freeze salary hikes and cut discretionary spending as it adjusts to the slump in global crude prices. ..."


    COMMENTS
    excerpt:

    "I am God 3 hours ago
    I need to quickly set up a bumper sticker company in Alberta.
    3 replies

    How I Sees It 1 hour ago
    What are you going to put on your bumper sticker?
    +2


    skier9 55 minutes ago
    Funny!

    Cabbage999 17 minutes ago
    Again, sensitivity training required. Making fun of people getting laid off. Really???"


    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repor...ticle22940807/
    Last edited by KC; 12-02-2015 at 08:09 AM.

  99. #199
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    Precision Drilling rig crews down more than 1,000 workers

    More than 1,000 fewer drilling rig crew members are working at Precision Drilling Corp. now versus a year ago due to a commodity price crisis that has idled one in five rigs, the Calgary-based driller reported Thursday.

    “Industry downturns are difficult for all, but they affect our rig crews more than anybody else,” noted president and chief executive Kevin Neveu in a news release.

    “Each one of our active rigs is crewed by 20 or 25 skilled and trained Precision field hands and at this time last year we had nearly 250 rigs running and today we have less than 200.”
    Find the rest over here:
    http://www.edmontonjournal.com/busin..._lsa=88aa-1ffe
    Last edited by ThomasH; 21-02-2015 at 09:18 AM.

  100. #200
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    From Feb 17

    Trinidad Drilling cuts one in five salaried workers

    Trinidad Drilling Ltd. is laying off one in five salaried employees, enacting a seven per cent across-the-board wage cut and trimming its executive salaries and directors’ fees by 10 per cent to deal with reduced activity due to low oil and gas prices.

    The Calgary-based driller (TSX: TDG) also announced Tuesday it would cut its capital spending by 50 per cent from $350 million to $175 million for 2015.
    Find the rest over here:
    http://www.edmontonjournal.com/busin..._lsa=88aa-1ffe
    Last edited by ThomasH; 21-02-2015 at 09:19 AM.

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