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Thread: And here begins the mass layoffs

  1. #1301
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    It was the same in the mid eighties.

    All Top_Dawg has to say is: Go east young man, go east.

  2. #1302

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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Dawg View Post
    It was the same in the mid eighties.

    All Top_Dawg has to say is: Go east young man, go east.
    Nah, its full of creeps and bums

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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Dawg View Post
    It was the same in the mid eighties.

    All Top_Dawg has to say is: Go east young man, go east.
    Vancouver isn't doing too bad. I'd prefer that tbh.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bhaskar21 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    The Edmonton story certainly is not the Alberta story it seems.
    Edmonton has been very lucky
    As a recent engineering graduate from the University of Alberta. I can confidently say that 70-80% of new graduates are currently unemployed.
    There are also unemployed experienced engineering professionals looking, as well as recent immigrants looking to get a foot in the door.

    Professional Engineering does require a P.Eng. license, but does not have a powerful enough lobby that can limit candidates, as say fields like Dentistry, Pharmacy, Optometry, and Medicine do. This is a big reason why there are so many Engineers always looking, and literally every medical professional is working and making big $$$ in both good and bad times.
    Last edited by Bill; 18-05-2016 at 05:04 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanC View Post
    There are only two Construction Mega projects in all of Alberta that will run into 2017 with no new ones foreseen.
    What is a mega project? Wikipedia defines it at about the $1 billion mark. By this definition Anthony Henday Northeast is one $1.8 billion, but that will be complete in October 2016, then we have the Mill Woods LRT that is just starting up and should be complete in 2020 it's cost is estimated at $1.8 billion also.

    The arena district is made up of multiple projects which total around $2.5 billion. If you count it as one project it certainly qualifies.

    All of these projects do help reduce Edmonton's unemployment at least for the next few years.

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    How many of these are Chemical Engineers since I know of at least two of my friends whose children went into that area only to have oil dive to what it is today. Their children both wait tables at eateries in Edmonton and Calgary since those jobs have vapourized.

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    Not many chemical engineers (probably 0 I'd imagine), but it does help for civil engineers, heavy equipment operators, diesel mechanics and so forth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sundance View Post
    Not many chemical engineers (probably 0 I'd imagine), but it does help for civil engineers, heavy equipment operators, diesel mechanics and so forth.
    I should clarify that my reference was meant to be to the number currently unemployed and not to the current construction projects in and around Edmonton and soon in Fort McMurray.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sundance View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DanC View Post
    There are only two Construction Mega projects in all of Alberta that will run into 2017 with no new ones foreseen.
    What is a mega project? Wikipedia defines it at about the $1 billion mark. By this definition Anthony Henday Northeast is one $1.8 billion, but that will be complete in October 2016, then we have the Mill Woods LRT that is just starting up and should be complete in 2020 it's cost is estimated at $1.8 billion also.

    The arena district is made up of multiple projects which total around $2.5 billion. If you count it as one project it certainly qualifies.

    All of these projects do help reduce Edmonton's unemployment at least for the next few years.
    That's the traditional definition, in Alberta it probably doesn't apply, most oilsands mega projects have been in the 5 billion plus range.
    The Lrt includes operating costs as part of the P3 that stretch for 25 years. It's not a traditional capital cost only mega project. It will help but it will not employ 5000 people at one time with massive amounts of overtime in the same way oilsands/O&G project does (base work week typical of minimum 50hrs). The ice district is not a mega project. Any portion could be reduced or canceled at any time though it's highly unlikely. Again it will help but it's not the same scale.

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    ^at $5b I expect there won't be much for a long time, unless the province decides to lay down some cash for another refinery or something, or decides to do an HSR (unlikely). Even a pipeline project will only be at much about half of that in Alberta (although economic impact will be bigger). I think you are right, the days of projects like Kearl are probably gone for a long time.

  11. #1311

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    Quote Originally Posted by bhaskar21 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    The Edmonton story certainly is not the Alberta story it seems.
    Edmonton has been very lucky
    As a recent engineering graduate from the University of Alberta. I can confidently say that 70-80% of new graduates are currently unemployed.
    Recent U of A Engineering Grad, can confirm

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    ^ Interesting perspective in this article on Edmonton's 'Engineering Hub'
    “The engineering sector is a tough go right now. They were the fastest growing industry a few years ago and the reason the office market was very robust,” Wosnack says. “That same industry right now is downsizing, so it’s our version of the energy sector in Calgary.
    http://edmontonjournal.com/opinion/c...ngineering-hub
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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^at $5b I expect there won't be much for a long time, unless the province decides to lay down some cash for another refinery or something, or decides to do an HSR (unlikely). Even a pipeline project will only be at much about half of that in Alberta (although economic impact will be bigger). I think you are right, the days of projects like Kearl are probably gone for a long time.
    Where did all our oil money go? Maybe this group has an answer, I don't know. Blame China, fracking? OPEC? Maybe there's an answer more closer to home:




    Alberta Proud




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  14. #1314

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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^at $5b I expect there won't be much for a long time, unless the province decides to lay down some cash for another refinery or something, or decides to do an HSR (unlikely). Even a pipeline project will only be at much about half of that in Alberta (although economic impact will be bigger). I think you are right, the days of projects like Kearl are probably gone for a long time.
    Where did all our oil money go? Maybe this group has an answer, I don't know. Blame China, fracking? OPEC? Maybe there's an answer more closer to home:




    Alberta Proud



    Equalization rebalances out of federal income income taxes. So the poster creator did a poor job explaining a wealth transfer. We also had lower provincial income taxes (and a flat rate) so the province put the onus onto individuals to build up their own savings. That's where a lot of the money went - to individuals. Now they must simply put up or shut up in terms of sustaining themselves via their own wherewithal.

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    Envaneo - equalisation is completely irrelevant to our decision to fund government with royalties instead of provincial taxes.

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    Most of us know how equalization payments work. The above was meant as a suggestion. O/G makes up a small portion of this countries overall gdp.
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    StatsCan May jobs report coming out tomorrow.

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    Im very curious on this month for Edmonton.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill View Post
    Professional Engineering does require a P.Eng. license, but does not have a powerful enough lobby that can limit candidates, as say fields like Dentistry, Pharmacy, Optometry, and Medicine do. This is a big reason why there are so many Engineers always looking, and literally every medical professional is working and making big $$$ in both good and bad times.
    Information technology is one rung down from engineering when it comes to being flooded with candidates (as far as not having professionalized at all). There are 'major' IT recruiters in Edmonton (and Calgary) that have *zero* postings for local jobs on their websites: presumably either they must not be making much money locally, or they have a huge pool of resumes to mine from droves of unemployed experienced people, and don't have to post anything to solicit more candidates.

    Not sure if it will bounce back in the next six months - time to start waiting tables?

    It would be interesting to figure out the true unemployment stats for recent grads from the information-technology-related programs at NAIT/SAIT if the stats for engineering grads are that bad.

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    I'm currently doing a survey for Mercon. Most of the guys in construction I've talked with in this province are all employed. With oil around $50, lets see if it'll last. Lots of guys want to get into safety. Lots of red seal guys out there still employed
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    Quote Originally Posted by cons View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill View Post
    Professional Engineering does require a P.Eng. license, but does not have a powerful enough lobby that can limit candidates, as say fields like Dentistry, Pharmacy, Optometry, and Medicine do. This is a big reason why there are so many Engineers always looking, and literally every medical professional is working and making big $$$ in both good and bad times.
    Information technology is one rung down from engineering when it comes to being flooded with candidates (as far as not having professionalized at all). There are 'major' IT recruiters in Edmonton (and Calgary) that have *zero* postings for local jobs on their websites: presumably either they must not be making much money locally, or they have a huge pool of resumes to mine from droves of unemployed experienced people, and don't have to post anything to solicit more candidates.

    Not sure if it will bounce back in the next six months - time to start waiting tables?

    It would be interesting to figure out the true unemployment stats for recent grads from the information-technology-related programs at NAIT/SAIT if the stats for engineering grads are that bad.
    It's awful. My wife has an IT degree. She was unfortunately laid off two weeks before she delivered our second one. A year later when she wanted to get back in the job market, the IT market is completely dead. She's sent hundreds of resumes. Nothing.

    If I didn't have a decent job right now, we would have left Alberta. No disrespect to the cities of Edmonton and Calgary, or the province. but if the job market is this bad, you gotta go where the work is. I'd think the "up and coming" hot spots for jobs are: Toronto, Vancouver, and Winnipeg.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by cons View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill View Post
    Professional Engineering does require a P.Eng. license, but does not have a powerful enough lobby that can limit candidates, as say fields like Dentistry, Pharmacy, Optometry, and Medicine do. This is a big reason why there are so many Engineers always looking, and literally every medical professional is working and making big $$$ in both good and bad times.
    Information technology is one rung down from engineering when it comes to being flooded with candidates (as far as not having professionalized at all). There are 'major' IT recruiters in Edmonton (and Calgary) that have *zero* postings for local jobs on their websites: presumably either they must not be making much money locally, or they have a huge pool of resumes to mine from droves of unemployed experienced people, and don't have to post anything to solicit more candidates.

    Not sure if it will bounce back in the next six months - time to start waiting tables?

    It would be interesting to figure out the true unemployment stats for recent grads from the information-technology-related programs at NAIT/SAIT if the stats for engineering grads are that bad.
    It's awful. My wife has an IT degree. She was unfortunately laid off two weeks before she delivered our second one. A year later when she wanted to get back in the job market, the IT market is completely dead. She's sent hundreds of resumes. Nothing.

    If I didn't have a decent job right now, we would have left Alberta. No disrespect to the cities of Edmonton and Calgary, or the province. but if the job market is this bad, you gotta go where the work is. I'd think the "up and coming" hot spots for jobs are: Toronto, Vancouver, and Winnipeg.
    Except the equivalent job in Toronto or Vancouver requires a massive jump in pay to compensate for the cost of housing or a major downsizing/rent vs. Own, very long commute, etc.
    Winnipeg is an interesting one but if you found Edmonton small, lacking amenities or don't like the weather well Winnipeg isn't a step up.

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    ^ True, but if you studied something, put time effort and money into it, have no job, and are mobile...
    The world is full of kings and queens, who blind your eyes then steal your dreams.
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    I'm going back a couple of years ago but the last education survey I did there were a lot of IT respondents in Ottawa. Getting past a lot of accents over the phone is challenging but lots of accents I called were in IT in Ottawa.
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    Canada’s unemployment rate dropped to its lowest level in nearly a year but Alberta’s labour market took another beating in wake of the wildfires and low oil prices...

    ...Alberta, however, shed 24,000 positions in May, with half the declines in the natural resources sector. Alberta’s jobless rate jumped to 7.8 per cent from 7.2 per cent in April, according to Statistics Canada’s monthly labour report.
    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repor...ticle30389437/
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    ^ New stats can figures should be out next week.
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    Accounting is dreadful too now. Very sad to see designated accountants take jobs making 20 an hour. Any job posting = several hundred applicants

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    Give it a year and things could be looking worse.
    Severance packages are running out, next are investment withdrawals like rrsps. Once those run out, some dipping into lines of credits, and then bankruptcy.

    I recall the recession of the early 1990's, and it's the same thing all over again. Some of the middle class fall to the lower-middle class, as they were never able to find an equivalent job that they were laid off from. imagine being in your early 50's, and laid off from a middle management job. I saw this happen to a few colleagues, and it was disastrous. They never quite recovered.
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    ^ My lodge colleagues are for the most part are working. We're a trade lodge and most of the younger guys work in the trades. There are a few in my age group (64) that joke with me saying, "Your about the only person I know that when you go on pension, your quality of life improves." But in all my 16 years in the lodge, for the most part guys are employed. Many of the guys have cross over or transitional skills. One guy worked as a designer for Stantec but he also has a teaching certificate and can teach at Nait but now he's out at Acheson cabinet building. This summer is going to be rough on my wife and I. Work at my job is slowing down but its a natural progression this time of year. I'll be applying for full pension in August. Good news for me is that with a higher unemployment rate means less hours I need to file a ei claim. Work will resume for me in a few months. By this time next year I'll be sliding into pension and on a ei claim until pension kicks in. I feel bad for a lot of guys affected by this economy. Hopefully things will improve soon.
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    Sad to see that not a single local newspaper reported Edmonton's job numbers for May, a very basic economic measurement. My how the mighty have fallen.

    Here are the baseline numbers: these are the seasonally adjusted numbers.

    Labour force characteristics
    (January February March April May)

    Population (x 1,000) 1,112.5 1,113.8 1,115.4 1,117.0 1,118.7
    Labour force (x 1,000) 830.9 835.0 839.8 843.0 839.9
    Employment (x 1,000) 776.8 778.1 781.6 784.3 781.4
    Unemployment (x 1,000) 54.1 57.0 58.3 58.7 58.5
    Unemployment rate (percent) 6.5 6.8 6.9 7.0 7.0
    Participation rate (percent) 74.7 75.0 75.3 75.5 75.1
    Employment rate (percent) 69.8 69.9 70.1 70.2 69.8

    Source: CANSIM table 282-0135

    Notes: Unadjusted numbers are available too - look at the source material for more information.

    Analysis:
    - Employment dropped for the first time in a while. Not good news.

    - Unemployment rate remains at 7%, very respectable in current conditions.

    - For comparison, Calgary also lost jobs this month.

    - Non-seasonally adjusted numbers actually show a job gain for Edmonton this month.
    Last edited by AAAAE; 12-06-2016 at 01:53 AM.

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    Stats Can should be releasing data this week as its a 3 month moving average.
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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Stats Can should be releasing data this week as its a 3 month moving average.
    The numbers I have reported are the numbers for the month of May, including the moving averages. There are no further (labour force) releases scheduled from Statistics Canada until next month.

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    No, as I indicated the source is CANSIM - that is Statistics Canada's database.

    http://www5.statcan.gc.ca/cansim/a26?id=2820135

    The link you posted is from Service Canada (EI program), and appears to be using data that is a month behind. Or perhaps some kind of proprietary survey is conducted by Statistics Canada for the EI program, I am not sure. In any case the CANSIM numbers are the usual numbers that are reported by the national media.
    Last edited by AAAAE; 12-06-2016 at 05:20 PM.

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    ConocoPhillips Canada to lay off up to 300 employees in September

    ConocoPhillips Canada says it will lay off 250 to 300 employees, mainly from its Calgary head office, in September.

    The employees were informed about the looming cuts on Thursday, but details of how they will affect specific parts of the business are still being worked out, company spokesman Rob Evans said in an email.

    Evans said Friday the cuts are part of a global staff realignment to match future activity levels, with Canada looking less attractive than some of its other operations.

    "Low commodity prices, combined with our inability to get product to new markets, has resulted in lower prices in Canada relative to other parts of the world," Evans said.

    "Coupled with increased local cost pressures such as corporate taxes, regulatory compliance costs and property taxes, staying competitive in a global portfolio is a challenge for some parts of our Canadian business."

    The cuts at ConocoPhillips' Canadian operations form part of the roughly 1,000 job cuts the company plans across its North American operations.
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...fice-1.3691548

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    Calgary-based AltaGas says cutting 70 workers will save $7M a year

    Calgary-based power and natural gas supplier AltaGas Ltd. says it has reduced its workforce by about 70 workers.

    It said the job cuts implemented in June would result in a $7-million-restructuring charge on its second-quarter earnings. The reduction of its non-utility workforce is expected to result in savings of about $7-million per year.

    The company listed 1,753 employees at the end of 2015 in a regulatory filing, with 1,056 considered utility workers and 697 in gas, power and corporate roles.

    AltaGas (TSX:ALA) and its joint-venture partners have recently halted work on two proposed liquefied natural gas projects in northern British Columbia, citing poor global LNG markets.

    The partners suspended work on the Triton project designed to export about 2.3-million tonnes of LNG a year to Asia last year, while their Douglas Channel project, designed as a 550,000-tonne-per-year floating LNG project near Kitimat, B.C., was halted in February.
    http://globalnews.ca/news/2839883/ca...ave-7m-a-year/

  37. #1337

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    The US has beat us on the LNG export business. We tend to focus on exporting to the US and not seeking access to other markets.


    http://edmontonjournal.com/opinion/c...s-u-s-gears-up

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    Even Coquitlam BC (about 5%) has a better unemployment rate then Edmonton (7%) Weird.
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  39. #1339

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    Credit delinquencies up 40% in Alberta:

    Mostly among Millennials.



    http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/08..._11583324.html

    I still think its going to flow onto housing eventually...
    Last edited by moahunter; 18-08-2016 at 01:51 PM.

  40. #1340

    Default ConocoPhillips Canada lays off 300 employees in September

    emphasis added

    Employees were informed the cuts would take place around the third week of September, and now the company confirms the reductions will begin this week, Evans said.

    "This is part of a ConocoPhillips global initiative to align our operational capacity to our planned activity over the next few years," he said.

    The company says Canada is looking less attractive than some of its other operations, blaming low commodity prices and the inability to get product to new markets.

    "Coupled with increased local cost pressures such as corporate taxes, regulatory compliance costs and property taxes, staying competitive in a global portfolio is a challenge for some parts of our Canadian business," Evans said in July.


    Last September, ConocoPhillips Canada announced a 15 per cent reduction of its workforce — about 400 employees and 100 contractors.

    In March 2015, the company announced it was cutting seven per cent of its Canadian staff — about 200 jobs.

    The Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers estimates at least 44,000 direct jobs have been lost in the oil and gas industry since the downturn started.
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...fice-1.3757597

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    It's well known in the industry that the E&P companies are a bit slow to the draw. They're still in the layoff mode when most others have bottomed out or even have started hiring again. We've started hiring again. Production at some of our manufacturing plants in AB are getting to their peak, we're adding shifts, bringing back equipment from mothballing. This isn't some small company either, probably the oilfield service company with the largest workforce in AB. Drilling is still bad, particularly in Canada but that is only part of the industry.

    The tide has already turned. It will not be a quick ride back up however.

  42. #1342

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    Quote Originally Posted by nobleea View Post
    It's well known in the industry that the E&P companies are a bit slow to the draw. They're still in the layoff mode when most others have bottomed out or even have started hiring again. We've started hiring again. Production at some of our manufacturing plants in AB are getting to their peak, we're adding shifts, bringing back equipment from mothballing. This isn't some small company either, probably the oilfield service company with the largest workforce in AB. Drilling is still bad, particularly in Canada but that is only part of the industry.

    The tide has already turned. It will not be a quick ride back up however.
    A lot of people saw the price drop and thought "long-term global surplus" without any thought to the ever growing demand for oil. 1% growth in demand on an ever growing, massive base of existing demand equals a lot of consumption and a lot of reserve depletion.

  43. #1343

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    ^there are massive new reserves though due to fracking (which are on hold but can easily swing into production if prices rise high enough), and new finds like the giant new texas field. I don't think a shortfall anytime soon.

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    America is still studying the effects of fracking. If an administration get's in that is against fracking then it could put a lot of exploration at a standstill.
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  45. #1345

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    America is still studying the effects of fracking. If an administration get's in that is against fracking then it could put a lot of exploration at a standstill.
    Not going to happen, there is too much money / energy independence at stake. Also, its not Canadians doing it (unlike Keystone XL). US can effectively reduce its greenhouse gas emissions by a transition away from Coal - that's the current policies, but as mostly being replaced by gas, acceptance of fracking is a key component of those policies.
    Last edited by moahunter; 12-09-2016 at 02:39 PM.

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    It's highly variable and case and company dependent, but I'd guess that generally the new reserves represent a higher cost to produce oil than oil from old conventional reserves. So companies will maximize high margin product and thus deplete high margin oil before they will seek to produce from lower margin sources. (Even Saudi Arabia is maximizing it's production rate and thus it's depletion rate.) This I would again guess will raise the cost of producing oil and depletion will force prices higher.

    Uneconomic oil will become economic and margins on existing production will increase. So any potentially competive production in Alberta should proceed once projections predict sustainable margins.

    So basically, frac based production should rush to meet higher pricing opportunities and depletion of cheap oil will continue unabated. The dynamics of disappearing cheap oil and its replacement with higher cost oil should be fairly well balanced because of the ability to add incrementally to the frac production. Though even here, they will deplete the lowest cost best shale oil reserves first and so shale oil production costs should also rise, creating opportunity for high up front capital projects like Alberta offers.

    Much initial growth in demand should be be met by the incremental shale additions but at some point the big boys of oil sands production should be able to displace the bleeding edge suppliers.

    An analogy might be cabs and cars. A town grows and people buy more cars and take more cabs. Incremental additions occur as the population grows. Plus new higher cost cars are imported as old cars useful lives deplete. A form of FIFO cost escalation occurs. However at some point someone says, hey, I can now add a bus system or LRT system, create major transport savings via bulk transport and displace a whole swack of what will suddenly become relatively expensive car and cab transports. Those vehicles then sit idle until demand increases and they fill the next incremental addition slot as they become economic again.
    Last edited by KC; 12-09-2016 at 05:51 PM.

  47. #1347
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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    emphasis added

    Employees were informed the cuts would take place around the third week of September, and now the company confirms the reductions will begin this week, Evans said.

    "This is part of a ConocoPhillips global initiative to align our operational capacity to our planned activity over the next few years," he said.

    The company says Canada is looking less attractive than some of its other operations, blaming low commodity prices and the inability to get product to new markets.

    "Coupled with increased local cost pressures such as corporate taxes, regulatory compliance costs and property taxes, staying competitive in a global portfolio is a challenge for some parts of our Canadian business," Evans said in July.


    Last September, ConocoPhillips Canada announced a 15 per cent reduction of its workforce — about 400 employees and 100 contractors.

    In March 2015, the company announced it was cutting seven per cent of its Canadian staff — about 200 jobs.

    The Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers estimates at least 44,000 direct jobs have been lost in the oil and gas industry since the downturn started.
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...fice-1.3757597
    You conveniently omitted that this was a previously announced layoff...

    As for "compliance costs" - well one school of thought would hold that if they cannot make a profit when the pollution externality is actually paid, then they should not be producing...

  48. #1348

    Default Two Years Into Oil Slump, U.S. Shale Firms Are Ready to Pump More

    Basically again, why would you invest in Canada, when there is a much lower capital cost production that can be done in the US? Add in all the foolish carbon taxes / regulations that don't exist down south, and its a no brainer. The fracking revolution is already starting to ramp up, with production levels back up to where they were before the bust, and newly learned cost efficiencies.

    As the oil markets ponder where production will resume when prices pick back up, one clear answer has emerged: America. Goldman Sachs forecasts the U.S. will be pumping an additional 600,000 to 700,000 barrels of oil a day by the end of next year—making up for every drop lost in the bust.

    Few predicted that in the fall of 2014, when Saudi Arabia signaled that it wouldn’t curb its output to put a floor under crude prices. Oil pundits concluded that a brutal culling would force higher-cost players known as marginal producers—a group that includes shale drillers—out of the market.

    But the greatest consequence of the Saudi decision and subsequent price drop is that it has delayed costly oil megaprojects, from deep-water platforms off Angola to oil-sands mines in Canada.

    “The U.S. isn’t the marginal barrel but the most flexible,” said R.T. Dukes, an analyst at Wood Mackenzie. “We’ll be the fastest to snap back.”
    http://www.wsj.com/articles/two-year...ore-1474968601

    For every bit of emissions we save up here (which make no meaningful impact on temperatures on a global scale given how small we are to big emitters like the US and China), they will happily emit more down there, and take the money from it. The production of fossil fuels for transport isn't going to change until consumption changes, as it stands, global consumption is increasing not decreasing, with automobile usage growing in many countries as they continue to develop. We are losing out on meeting that demand while its still growing.
    Last edited by moahunter; 27-09-2016 at 09:34 AM.

  49. #1349

    Default

    Does anyone know what happened to Leder Steel Ltd. in Acheson?

  50. #1350
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    Quote Originally Posted by wayneskichuck View Post
    Does anyone know what happened to Leder Steel Ltd. in Acheson?
    I've heard they haven't officially filed for bankruptcy but are restructuring.

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    Apparently Capital Steel is also in some trouble. I think there's going to be a lot of "cleaning up" in the construction industry in Edmonton over the next year. What's going on with tenders right now is not sustainable, and there's a lot of companies who are buying work. The music has to stop sometime.

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    Enbridge cuts 5% of workforce, including 370 jobs in Canada

    Calgary-based Enbridge Inc. is laying off about five per cent of its workforce, the company announced Wednesday.

    Canada's largest pipeline operator said Wednesday it has eliminated about 370 positions in Canada and about 160 in the U.S., making up roughly five per cent of its more than 11,000 staff.

    "Throughout this process, Enbridge is committed to treating people fairly and with respect. We are providing support to those leaving the company, as well as those who remain," company spokeswoman Suzanne Wilton said in an email to CBC News.

    The company began an organizational review in the first quarter of this year.
    "It is focused on what we need to do to achieve our strategy of growth and diversification, enhance our competitiveness, and allow us to capitalize on opportunities now and into the future," she said.

    The company made a similar five per cent cut to staff in November 2015, saying the job cuts were needed to remain competitive and withstand difficult times in the industry.

    Last month, the company announced plans to buy Houston-based Spectra Energy Corp. for stock worth $37 billion.

    The combination of the two pipeline companies would create a North American energy infrastructure giant, to be called Enbridge Inc. and headquartered in Calgary.

    The combined company's natural gas pipelines business would be based in Houston and the liquids pipelines business would be based in Edmonton.
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...jobs-1.3812130

  53. #1353

    Default

    Oil prices. Not related to minimum wage or carbon tax. AKA, not Notley's fault.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  54. #1354
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    Default Enbridge Layoffs - TheLayoff.com Website

    While checking a search engine regarding the recent Enbridge layoffs, I found a website (with anonymous comments by current and former Enbridge employees) that may be of interest to some on this board. The link to the page on that website devoted to Enbridge layoffs is below.

    https://www.thelayoff.com/enbridge

    For the record, I'm not a current or past employee of Enbridge (just an outsider watching the latest round of mass layoffs to hit Alberta ...).

  55. #1355

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill View Post
    Give it a year and things could be looking worse.
    Severance packages are running out, next are investment withdrawals like rrsps. Once those run out, some dipping into lines of credits, and then bankruptcy.

    I recall the recession of the early 1990's, and it's the same thing all over again. Some of the middle class fall to the lower-middle class, as they were never able to find an equivalent job that they were laid off from. imagine being in your early 50's, and laid off from a middle management job. I saw this happen to a few colleagues, and it was disastrous. They never quite recovered.
    I know this is a bit of an old post, but unless we get another ***** like Ralph Klein putting out fire with gasoline, this won't be anything like the horrible 90's.

    Plus the Downtown is on a perfectly opposite track in retail, entertainment, and hospitality. Even if it doesn't affect the employment numbers, it would "feel" less dismal no matter what.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  56. #1356

    Default Why the Edmonton and Calgary job markets are so different

    Interesting article here by CBC. Basically, both Edmonton and Calgary are bleeding jobs in the private sector, but:

    - Edmonton has added 14,000 public sector jobs, 7,000 in health and 7,000 in administration
    - loss of head office jobs in Calgary
    - Edmonton might be losing more people than Calgary is to other provinces.

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...rent-1.3840746

    I don't agree with the silly left wing CBC conclusion that the answer is to spend more in Calgary instead of Edmonton. It's not a good sign when the part of the economy that pays for the public sector is shrinking at the same time the public sector is growing, it's a recipie for an economic disaster with massively increasing public debt - the tack needs to change ASAP. The way out of this mess isn't for government to replace private sector jobs with more burecrats as Notley has done, it's for government to reduce its burden to help the private sector be competitive again in a world of sustained moderate oil prices. It was stupid to add 14,000 permanent positions at a time we can afford less government not more (infrastructure spending I could understand, but not ramping up the public sector), it's setting up the scene, sadly, for a ton of job layoffs for the public sector when we get a responsible government.
    Last edited by moahunter; 08-11-2016 at 07:15 AM.

  57. #1357
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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Interesting article here by CBC. Basically, both Edmonton and Calgary are bleeding jobs in the private sector, but:

    - Edmonton has added 14,000 public sector jobs, 7,000 in health and 7,000 in administration
    - loss of head office jobs in Calgary
    - Edmonton might be losing more people than Calgary is to other provinces.

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...rent-1.3840746

    I don't agree with the silly left wing CBC conclusion that the answer is to spend more in Calgary instead of Edmonton. It's not a good sign when the part of the economy that pays for the public sector is shrinking at the same time the public sector is growing, it's a recipie for an economic disaster with massively increasing public debt - the tack needs to change ASAP. The way out of this mess isn't for government to replace private sector jobs with more burecrats as Notley has done, it's for government to reduce its burden to help the private sector be competitive again in a world of sustained moderate oil prices. It was stupid to add 14,000 permanent positions at a time we can afford less government not more (infrastructure spending I could understand, but not ramping up the public sector), it's setting up the scene, sadly, for a ton of job layoffs for the public sector when we get a responsible government.
    Except the province maintains it is in a hiring freeze. Anecdotal evidence confirms this.

    I have looked at these numbers too, and to be honest I think there are some statistical anomalies going on with the Stats Can data. There have been some massive swings up and down in the Edmonton market in particular, that don't seem to correspond to reality. Year to date we have lost something like 22,000 jobs, while Calgary has gained 8,000.

    Perhaps the federal government has hired in Edmonton: the city has not substantially hired. I do not know where this purported increase of 7,000 public servants comes from.

  58. #1358

    Default

    It's that new invisible hospital.

    For reference, there are around 7,000 actual medical/ nursing staff at the whole U of A hospital complex.

    So really by some coincidence 7 people on the survey got health care jobs recently.
    There can only be one.

  59. #1359
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    Here's what I think is a perfect example of a large employer that never made headlines due to the nature of the layoffs (not including the Husky Energy part), it's only when 50 or more employees are let go in one sitting that the government needs to be informed, Saipem Energy states within the article that the layoffs came over time as work dried up.

    No work: Edmonton's Saipem Canada facility another victim of oilpatch woes

    A major Edmonton oilsands fabrication facility is down to a core of essential staff and its future is unclear after the plant ran out of orders last summer.

    The 20-hectare Saipem Canada site in northeast Edmonton’s Aurum Energy Park had 350 to 400 workers last fall, but is now down to about 50 people keeping the area in working order, company legal manager Denver Brust said Monday.

    “Our backlog (of orders) is currently at zero, so we don’t have any ongoing projects … It’s been reduced to essential staff only, mainly keeping the facility maintained, everything in working order,” he said from the Italian-owned firm’s Canadian headquarters in Calgary.

    “Hopefully, we’re going to come into some work in the future, but right now module fabrication isn’t doing so well,” he said. “We’re in a holding pattern.”

    The plant, north of Yellowhead Trail and east of the North Saskatchewan River, opened just three years ago to construct major modules that are assembled into upgraders, sulphur recovery units and other structures at oilsands operations.

    Officials at the time estimated it cost $200 million.

    The facility had the capacity to produce 200 modules annually, but it was hit by the drop in Alberta’s energy sector and tough competition, Brust said.

    “When the market started going down, we stopped having any further backlog in the yard,” he said, adding they normally want at least six months’ worth of orders on hand.

    “The facility is … geared toward the oilsands. If you’re not getting any modules up north, you’re not keeping your yard busy.”

    Saipem laid off 1,000 tradespeople in March 2015 as construction ended at Husky Energy’s Sunrise oilsands project.

    The last modules were built at the Aurum facility in July, when the company was only putting out four or five modules a month and staffing had been dropping steadily, Brust said.

    He said there are no plans to shut the site, which includes 35,000 square metres of shops, offices and other buildings.

    “We’re actively seeking contracts. We’re trying to get a plan in place right now. It’s still wait and see. We’re waiting for the market to rebound. Right now, we don’t know what the future holds.”

    The company is focusing more on pipeline manufacture than modules, but these projects need government approval and then clients must decide to go ahead, Brust said.

    The Edmonton operation might not be needed for such contracts, and even if it is, the workforce will likely be smaller for the next few years than it was in the past, he said.
    http://edmontonjournal.com/business/...-oilpatch-woes
    Last edited by Kitlope; 08-11-2016 at 12:02 PM.

  60. #1360

    Default

    Not shock with this one. Their Canadian branch has been in financial distress prior to the bust.

    On another note, has anyone heard any gossip about Nexen?

  61. #1361

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ctzn-Ed View Post
    On another note, has anyone heard any gossip about Nexen?
    Yup. Not sure I believe it (Chinese are normally long term investors), but yup, not good. On the other hand, looks like still doing expansions:

    http://www.oedigital.com/component/k...uzzard-phase-2
    Last edited by moahunter; 24-11-2016 at 02:11 PM.

  62. #1362

    Default

    I just finished a project at Nexen Long Lake and the plant is like a ghost town. The upgrader part of the plant is non operational- poor construction- , and they were denied the expansion. All is left is the extraction portion of the plant that is running now. Im curious if they plan to sell Long Lake.

  63. #1363
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    Alberta's 'bittersweet' recovery: Don't expect a job surge soon, TD warns

    Alberta's economy is still expected to lead the country in growth over the next two years, according to the latest forecast from TD Economics, but the report warns that doesn't mean jobs will suddenly come surging back to the province.

    "This year's top performing economies, B.C. and Ontario, are expected to lose some momentum thanks to a cooling in the housing market, while Alberta and Saskatchewan head to the top of the leaderboard," the report reads.

    "But, this will be bittersweet, as the job markets in these oil-producing economies are expected to remain soft, leaving unemployment rates historically elevated."
    More here: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...cast-1.3905943

  64. #1364
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    1,000 unionized oilsands camp jobs lost and more to come: Trade union

    Oilsands companies have recently cut about 1,000 jobs, and 170 workers at a lodge just north of Fort McMurray will lose their positions the day after Christmas, trade unions said.

    "It's really cutthroat up there in the Fort McMurray area," said Doug O'Halloran, the president of United Food and Commercial Workers Canada (UFCW) Local 401.

    "But it's big business — they don't have any concerns about the average worker. It's all about the profit they need to make."

    UFCW, which represents the employees at Beaver River Lodge, said 170 workers are being sent home from Buffalo Métis Catering.

    Houston, Tex.-based Civeo Corp. owns the catering company in a joint venture with five Métis communities.

    In December, Civeo notified employees in a letter their jobs were ending on Dec. 26 because the company had found cheaper non-union contractors to do the same jobs, according to the union.
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...lost-1.3908240

  65. #1365

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kitlope View Post
    1,000 unionized oilsands camp jobs lost and more to come: Trade union

    Oilsands companies have recently cut about 1,000 jobs, and 170 workers at a lodge just north of Fort McMurray will lose their positions the day after Christmas, trade unions said.

    "It's really cutthroat up there in the Fort McMurray area," said Doug O'Halloran, the president of United Food and Commercial Workers Canada (UFCW) Local 401.

    "But it's big business — they don't have any concerns about the average worker. It's all about the profit they need to make."

    UFCW, which represents the employees at Beaver River Lodge, said 170 workers are being sent home from Buffalo Métis Catering.

    Houston, Tex.-based Civeo Corp. owns the catering company in a joint venture with five Métis communities.

    In December, Civeo notified employees in a letter their jobs were ending on Dec. 26 because the company had found cheaper non-union contractors to do the same jobs, according to the union.
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...lost-1.3908240

    I figure that as a province hugely reliant on the price of a single export commodity, we're somewhat like a "one company town". The common company town scenario: the plant shuts down and everyone is out of work, including the shop owners.

    Here, though, we had a case of the plant undergoing an expansion too. So oil prices dive and a lot of people are suddenly out of work as production gets cut back. More loose their jobs because their livelihood was indirectly fuelled by massive inflows of foreign capital that came in to build out that plant capacity. It's a double whammy.

    Anyway, just as EI, etc. doesn't properly address the potential risk people face by working in a little one company town, EI, etc. don't properly address the risk to people working in little old Alberta. (If there weren't all kinds of peak time projects still being completed and if the NDP weren't borrowing and spending billions (i.e importing capital), I figure we'd be in a "hard landing" situation right now.)
    Last edited by KC; 23-12-2016 at 02:50 PM.

  66. #1366

    Default Lessons from the Oil Shock

    Good article here.

    http://business.financialpost.com/ne..._lsa=19ad-72c7

    I thought this bit was particularly interesting. There is still a lot of anger in the oil patch at the group of four socialist lead companies (Suncor, CNRL, Shell and Cenovus), who are seen as having "sold out", nobody wants to invest because of the "cap" (along with various other red-tape items re NDP). With nobody investing, we just don't need as many people in this province:

    Beware of backroom political deals. The oil and gas industry loves to be in control, which resulted in a group of four oilsands companies breaking ranks with their peers a year ago and making a side deal with environmentalists and with Alberta’s NDP government that involved capping oilsands emissions for the whole sector in exchange for support to build oilsands pipelines.

    The move has caused a lot of discord. It’s discouraging investment because it was so poorly thought out. It will look dumb when Donald Trump takes over the White House in January. He will boost oil and gas production in the U.S. and approve the Keystone XL pipeline, while the Canadian oilsands are tied up in knots. Good communication with the new NDP government would have gone a long way to win support for pipelines.
    Last edited by moahunter; 27-12-2016 at 09:58 AM.

  67. #1367

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Good article here.

    http://business.financialpost.com/ne..._lsa=19ad-72c7

    I thought this bit was particularly interesting. There is still a lot of anger in the oil patch at the group of four socialist lead companies (Suncor, CNRL, Shell and Cenovus), who are seen as having "sold out", nobody wants to invest because of the "cap" (along with various other red-tape items re NDP). With nobody investing, we just don't need as many people in this province:

    Beware of backroom political deals. The oil and gas industry loves to be in control, which resulted in a group of four oilsands companies breaking ranks with their peers a year ago and making a side deal with environmentalists and with Alberta’s NDP government that involved capping oilsands emissions for the whole sector in exchange for support to build oilsands pipelines.

    The move has caused a lot of discord. It’s discouraging investment because it was so poorly thought out. It will look dumb when Donald Trump takes over the White House in January. He will boost oil and gas production in the U.S. and approve the Keystone XL pipeline, while the Canadian oilsands are tied up in knots. Good communication with the new NDP government would have gone a long way to win support for pipelines.
    When the going gets tough, the tough often take advantage of the weak. That includes the tough companies making deals that further hurt the weak companies.
    More from that article:

    Yes it's a good read.


    http://business.financialpost.com/ne..._lsa=a921-3774

    Did it have to be that brutal? Some companies such as Canadian Natural Resources Ltd. weathered the downturn by keeping their teams and reducing salaries across the board. Others such as Imperial Oil Ltd. kept headcount tight in good times to avoid downsizing in bad times. But the majority switched almost overnight from aggressive hiring – remember those lavish paycheques, bonuses and golden Fridays? – to pushing thousands of people out the door.

    Some of those responsible for the firings even ended up with pay increases. The practice validated perceptions that the oilpatch is old, vicious and dirty, and the damage will stick.

    “The downturn and resulting layoffs across the industry threaten to damage the industry’s brand as a career destination,” John England, Deloitte vice-chairman and U.S. Energy & Resources leader, wrote in a recent report on his outlook for 2017.
    ...

    also from the comments section. Clearly someone lacking an understanding of the nature of the oil business and the difference between sask's extraction and Alberta's that drives her very own city's economy.
    Nancy Crawford
    The chick who wrote this knows nothing and its clear she researched this whole thing using CBC material. Complete garbage and like a bad F grade paper at school its filled with rhetoric that is not supported by any evidence. Has she even ever been to Calgary. The downturn was investment being scared away by NDP government otherwise Sask would have suffered a similar fate. Omg that's only where to start with the misinformed and false bs that this article contains. Clearly no idea. Fresh grad? Lol
    Last edited by KC; 27-12-2016 at 10:11 AM.

  68. #1368

    Default

    Nancy, quoted above, has never read an article like this:

    How Far Out is Saskatchewan From Developing Its Oil Sands?
    Saskatchewan is fighting to unlock its oil sands potential – again. Is it a losing battle?
    BY TODD COYNE, September 1, 2015

    http://www.albertaoilmagazine.com/20...s-development/
    Last edited by KC; 27-12-2016 at 10:20 AM.

  69. #1369

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    When the going gets tough, the tough often take advantage of the weak. That includes the tough companies making deals that further hurt the weak companies.
    Imperial / Exxon, who rejected being involved in any political deal, has the highest investment grade credit rating. Cenvous, who were in the deal, has a Moody's junk rating. So no, that's not the case. Everyone in oil patch now is wondering what side deal with the NDP these four companies made re the cap not applying to their investments. I can't wait for NDP to be long gone, but what these four companies did won't be forgotten.
    Last edited by moahunter; 27-12-2016 at 10:26 AM.

  70. #1370

    Default

    Edmonton economy could take hit in 2017, EEDC boss says

    GORDON KENT
    More from Gordon Kent
    Published on: December 27, 2016 | Last Updated: December 27, 2016 8:59 AM MST

    http://edmontonjournal.com/business/...eedc-boss-says

  71. #1371

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    When the going gets tough, the tough often take advantage of the weak. That includes the tough companies making deals that further hurt the weak companies.
    Imperial / Exxon, who rejected being involved in any political deal, has the highest investment grade credit rating. Cenvous, who were in the deal, has a Moody's junk rating. So no, that's not the case. Everyone in oil patch now is wondering what side deal with the NDP these four companies made re the cap not applying to their investments. I can't wait for NDP to be long gone, but what these four companies did won't be forgotten.
    Ok I may be wrong. Or am totally wrong. My talk is cheap.

    Won't be forgotten? In the 80s a bunch of gas execs lobbied for free market gas pricing. A few years later gas execs were lobbying for the opposite, a higher made in Canada price... It all, gets forgotten. I can't even recall the details, just remember the obvious hypocrisy of it all to a guy like me raised on the belief that companies always embraced lassiefaire free market capitalism. (But it was different execs, maybe different companies, definitely different times that went from capturing profits to seeking handouts, subsidies and protection.)

  72. #1372
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    Oil companies aren't stupid at all. They sign deals with NDP sure to get their pipelines but they also know that before the pipelines are done and before their new developments are producing that the NDP will be long gone and the agreements torn up.
    Last edited by Drumbones; 27-12-2016 at 01:37 PM.

  73. #1373
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    Your forgetting that the the PM had something to do with getting the pipelines started. Some in the industry are concerned about aboriginal angst "going to war" over the pipelines but imo like the fizzled out "Idle no more" movement the aboriginals are all bark and no bite. Aboriginals need to remember that the pipelines are the hands that feeds them.
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

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