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Thread: And here begins the mass layoffs

  1. #1
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    Default And here begins the mass layoffs

    Layoff notices coming to 175 workers at Grande Cache Coal

    Grande Cache Coal is laying off 175 employees as of Feb. 3.

    Greg Cox, the superintendent of human resources, said the company is temporarily idling the surface mine due to market conditions and the falling price of metallurgical coal.

    Controlling interest in the mine was sold to Chinese company Up Energy Development Group for just $2 in October 2014.
    Cox said the layoffs aren’t related to the sale.

    Formal layoff notices will be handed out in the next couple of weeks. The mine employs 440 people.

    Gary Taje, representative for the United Mine Workers, said as many as 250 people could be laid off. He said the impact on Grande Cache will be tremendous.

    “It’s very significant. It’s drastic. It will have a huge impact on the town," he said. "In a town of 4,000 people, that’s absolutely huge. And then, of course, it brings in the uncertainty for the future.”

    He said people have already been leaving to pursue other opportunities, and the layoffs will make the situation worse.
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...coal-1.2892805

    Also an article at the Journal, but they have a free 10 article paywall. http://www.edmontonjournal.com/busin...917/story.html


    In conventional & fracking's oil case, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say once spring break up occurs in 2 or 3 months, a lot of workers phone's will not be ringing when things are supposed to pick up again come late summer.

  2. #2

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    In the same vein:

    Oilsands junior Laricina defaults on Canada Pension Plan notes
    Calgary Herald, Jan. 5, 2014

    Private junior oilsands developer Laricina Energy Ltd. warns it may not be able to continue as a “going concern” after defaulting on terms of a deal last winter to sell $150 million in notes to the Canada Pension Plan Investment Board.

    The cash-strapped company, which launched a strategic alternatives process in November to look at options which could include a corporate sale or merger, said in a news release on its website that its fourth quarter 2014 thermal oilsands production of 1,255 barrels per day missed its promised level by about 18 per cent.

    “Missing this production covenant is an event of default for which there is no cure period under the indenture,” it said in the release.

    “As a result, the notes are required to be reclassified as a current liability at Dec. 31, 2014, which causes the company to be in default of a related working capital covenant under the indenture.”

    The $200-billion CPPIB is Laricina’s largest equity investor at 15.3 per cent thanks to a $250-million injection about four years ago.

  3. #3
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    Friend in Calgary told me today that about 20% of their workforce is going to be superfluous and is at risk.
    www.decl.org

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  4. #4

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    Good topic for a thread.

    Denial about all this doesn't really serve any purpose other than a false sense of security. People should be preparing, adjusting spending, getting finances in order and considering options. This downturn was in the mail.

    The only question being is how vast are the layoffs and how hard is the hit to the economy and how long is the rebound if there is one.

    Bad news is never wanted but its preferred to no news or denial distorted news.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

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    Coal mines around Grande Cache have been opening and closing on an almost annual basis since the town's founding. It's unfortunate for the people who work and live there, but it's not exactly a great bellwether for the wider economy.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Coal mines around Grande Cache have been opening and closing on an almost annual basis since the town's founding. It's unfortunate for the people who work and live there, but it's not exactly a great bellwether for the wider economy.


    But the quotes make it clear that its a significant layoff event; This is the majority of the workforce at the mine being laid off.


    “It’s very significant. It’s drastic. It will have a huge impact on the town," he said. "In a town of 4,000 people, that’s absolutely huge. And then, of course, it brings in the uncertainty for the future.”
    Gary Taje (tie), a union spokesman, says of the 450 hourly and other workers at the mine, up to 250 stand to lose their jobs.
    He says the company plans to continue operating the underground portion of the mine.
    Taje says the company blames low coal prices for the layoffs, which it is calling temporary until prices recover.
    Grande Cache Coal officials could not be reached for comment.
    Taje said the layoffs will hit the community north of Hinton hard.
    "We have a small town here of 4,000 losing 200 to 250 jobs," he said Wednesday. "There is quite a bit of angst among the employees.
    "It is not a very nice time here in Grande Cache at all."
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

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    Again, that sort of thing has happened repeatedly in Grande Cache for it's entire history as a town (which is only 40 years, and it was built entirely to mine coal). Of course it's a huge deal for the town, which I acknowledged. But again, it's not a great indicator of what is going to happen elsewhere in the province. Grande Cache Coal itself has only been producing coal since about 2004, apparently. Most of the mines were closed through most of the 90's and early 2000's, I believe. The writing was on the wall when it was sold in October for $2, two years after it was bought for over a billion.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Again, that sort of thing has happened repeatedly in Grande Cache for it's entire history as a town (which is only 40 years, and it was built entirely to mine coal). Of course it's a huge deal for the town, which I acknowledged. But again, it's not a great indicator of what is going to happen elsewhere in the province.
    Understood. Specifically its not necessarily a bellwether tie in as coal mines open and close and or have ongoing downturns. But as for the title of the thread I would bank on this being something we're going to be seeing in waves across the province.

    Arguably layoff events set in motion subsequent layoff events. Even across sectors. My take is theres been a lot of holding on and with nobody wanting to make the drastic moves first. I don't see how massive layoffs are to be avoided in Petroleum sector.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  9. #9

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    The boom and bust of a one industry town.

    "The Last Spike"
    by the Cowboy Junkies

    Mornings feel so damn sad these days
    without the call of the 8:15
    That old familiar echo
    has finally died away
    leaving nothing but a chill
    where there once was a mighty scream

    And I've watched the flat cars
    take away our timber
    I've watched the coal cars steal our rock
    And now that we've got
    nothing left to take we're told
    that the wheels will stop turning,
    the whistles will stop blowing,
    these foolish dreams must stop

    Last year they closed down the post office,
    took the only flag we had in town
    That old brick building
    still stands like a cenotaph
    to a vision lost and buried in
    a very distant past

    And I've watched the flat cars
    take away our timber
    I've watched the coal cars steal our rock
    And now that we've got
    nothing left to take we're told
    that the wheels will stop turning,
    the whistles will stop blowing,
    these foolish dreams must stop
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

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    We've been told there's a hiring freeze this year. I would suspect there'll be no raises. I don't think they'll let us backfill positions where someone has gone on to a new company.
    It's a pretty big oilfield service company. If oil stays below 60 for long there'll certainly be some layoffs. It's not across the board though. Our product line is quite healthy right now, we can't make things fast enough. Mind you that is only 1 product line out of the 90 or so in the company.

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    The boom and bust of a one industry town.

    "The Last Spike"
    by the Cowboy Junkies

    Mornings feel so damn sad these days
    without the call of the 8:15
    That old familiar echo
    has finally died away
    leaving nothing but a chill
    where there once was a mighty scream

    And I've watched the flat cars
    take away our timber
    I've watched the coal cars steal our rock
    And now that we've got
    nothing left to take we're told
    that the wheels will stop turning,
    the whistles will stop blowing,
    these foolish dreams must stop

    Last year they closed down the post office,
    took the only flag we had in town
    That old brick building
    still stands like a cenotaph
    to a vision lost and buried in
    a very distant past

    And I've watched the flat cars
    take away our timber
    I've watched the coal cars steal our rock
    And now that we've got
    nothing left to take we're told
    that the wheels will stop turning,
    the whistles will stop blowing,
    these foolish dreams must stop
    Quintessential Canadian act. Her voice was made for songs like this. Telling the nations people stories.

    The show at the Arden theater a year and a half ago was great.

    A little OT but anyway..

    Do they make songwriters like this anymore?
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  12. #12

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    Crude City by Edmonton's Malibu Kens with young Mike McDonald back in ~1980 who would later go on to Jr. Gone Wild and the Mike McDonald Band.



    Tells it like it is...
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  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Coal mines around Grande Cache have been opening and closing on an almost annual basis since the town's founding. It's unfortunate for the people who work and live there, but it's not exactly a great bellwether for the wider economy.
    You may be right in this instance but the wider economy is often made up of stories like this occurring over time and slowly spreading until sudden recognition of the depth of the issue (threat or opportunity) hits home to people. It's also symbolic of the broader economy on a longer time scale. Every 1-20 years the wider economy seems to be developing a boom bust cycle. That's also unfortunate.


    Personally, I always try to flip between two mind sets so I can better sense the depth of an issue:

    One, looking at the averages, aggregates and the gross generalizations and

    Two, looking at the individual people, the small businesses, those laid off, those getting bonuses for laying off people, those loosing houses and those buying assets on the cheap...

    I also try to look back in time and then forward to imagine different scenarios. Is something a one off or is it the start of a domino effect, a daisy chain of calamities or opportunities.

    Same with health issues - seeing that average lifespan increase from 75 to 77 or whatever years makes me feel good but learning stories at the individual level of young children dying at one end of the age spectrum and others living into their hundreds at the other end adds more depth to my understanding.
    Last edited by KC; 08-01-2015 at 12:43 PM.

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by nobleea View Post
    We've been told there's a hiring freeze this year. I would suspect there'll be no raises. I don't think they'll let us backfill positions where someone has gone on to a new company.
    It's a pretty big oilfield service company. If oil stays below 60 for long there'll certainly be some layoffs. It's not across the board though. Our product line is quite healthy right now, we can't make things fast enough. Mind you that is only 1 product line out of the 90 or so in the company.
    Whenever I see "hiring freeze", I always think:

    'Now there's a management that doesn't know what the heck it is doing.'

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    Yep, some budgets will get cut or frozen - meantime a couple of billion dollars wortuh of new construction will carry on here in Edmonton.

    Folks, Tood Hirsch, senior ATB economists just yesterday forecast that growth in Alerta's economy (yes growth) would slow to about two per cent this year.

    For a change, Ontario and BC will lead the country in economic growth.

    Two percent - growth - with oil prices likely to move back to between $75 and 85 by this time next year.

    Armegedon is not nigh.
    ... gobsmacked

  16. #16

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    Did he also predict oil dropping below $50 this year?? Hard to believe anyone that says $80 oil by next winter.

    If they give the impression that an Alberta recession is coming people will take precautions and likely feed this recession.

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    I don't think anyone predicted this high stakes game of oil production chicken.

    But like its motoring counterpart, eventually someone blinks ... or dies.
    ... gobsmacked

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    If they give the impression that an Alberta recession is coming people will take precautions and likely feed this recession.
    It's hard not to feed a recession when you're unemployed.

    Marcel is right though - Grande Cache Coal has had a boom & bust cycle for decades, I was there in summer of 2005 for a short job as it had just reopened. Regardless, it's not a coincidence that coal is down and thus half the plant is being dismissed this winter as we all know the big story with oil and how it all plays into each other. There will be more mass layoffs, some directly related to the oilpatch and some indirectly, and I will post these stories as I see them. And then there's the new construction that doesn't occur (60 billion worth apparently might be postponed)... so technically not a layoff because the project wasn't actually started and no one was hired.

    But it all hurts.

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    Everything depends on what the PC's decide to do. We'll find out more about that shortly
    Parkdale

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    Its not unreasonable to believe that oil could bounce back as quickly as it dropped. The general consensus is that the first half of 2015 will be tough but prices will start recovering thereafter. In general its likely that the price of oil (WTI) could go as low as $40/b. But many have said that the pricing has gone beyond the supply and demand fundamentals and is working off of emotion at this point.

    I always look at the longterm fundamentals - US economy seems to be picking up (worlds largest oil consumer), China (while somewhat slowing) is poised to be the largest consumer of oil in 15-20 years along with the continued industrialization/modernization of India (another country of 1.1 billion people). This should tell you where the price of energy will likely go in the decades to come.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisD View Post
    Its not unreasonable to believe that oil could bounce back as quickly as it dropped. The general consensus is that the first half of 2015 will be tough but prices will start recovering thereafter. In general its likely that the price of oil (WTI) could go as low as $40/b. But many have said that the pricing has gone beyond the supply and demand fundamentals and is working off of emotion at this point.

    I always look at the longterm fundamentals - US economy seems to be picking up (worlds largest oil consumer), China (while somewhat slowing) is poised to be the largest consumer of oil in 15-20 years along with the continued industrialization/modernization of India (another country of 1.1 billion people). This should tell you where the price of energy will likely go in the decades to come.
    When the price was high there was some "working off of emotion" as well. Especially when experts are citing such crazed forecasts as 100Bucks a barrel is the new bottom.

    Some people are wearing that barrel as a bottom now..
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

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    I generally look at things like this. When people are talking about how good things are its not really that good, and when people are talking about how bad things are its not all that bad. Like they say, good businesses will be profitable during good and bad economies.

  23. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by 240GLT View Post
    Everything depends on what the PC's decide to do. We'll find out more about that shortly
    Not IMHO. Everything depends on what the Oil Companies decide to do. The PC's will obey them and then they will tell us what they want us to believe.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nobleea View Post
    We've been told there's a hiring freeze this year. I would suspect there'll be no raises. I don't think they'll let us backfill positions where someone has gone on to a new company.
    It's a pretty big oilfield service company. If oil stays below 60 for long there'll certainly be some layoffs. It's not across the board though. Our product line is quite healthy right now, we can't make things fast enough. Mind you that is only 1 product line out of the 90 or so in the company.
    Same things at ours. No pay raises either.

  25. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisD View Post
    Its not unreasonable to believe that oil could bounce back as quickly as it dropped. The general consensus is that the first half of 2015 will be tough but prices will start recovering thereafter. In general its likely that the price of oil (WTI) could go as low as $40/b. But many have said that the pricing has gone beyond the supply and demand fundamentals and is working off of emotion at this point.

    I always look at the longterm fundamentals - US economy seems to be picking up (worlds largest oil consumer), China (while somewhat slowing) is poised to be the largest consumer of oil in 15-20 years along with the continued industrialization/modernization of India (another country of 1.1 billion people). This should tell you where the price of energy will likely go in the decades to come.

    Que Sera, Sera (Whatever Will Be, Will Be)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azxoVRTwlNg


    The future is likely to be like the past. Picking the time and period are the only tough parts.


    "Stock prices have reached what looks like a permanently high plateau. I do not feel there will be soon if ever a 50 or 60 point break from present levels, such as (bears) have predicted. I expect to see the stock market a good deal higher within a few months."
    - Irving Fisher, Ph.D. in economics, Oct. 17, 1929

    "We feel that fundamentally Wall Street is sound, and that for people who can afford to pay for them outright, good stocks are cheap at these prices."
    - Goodbody and Company market-letter quoted in The New York Times, Friday, October 25, 1929


    "We will not have any more crashes in our time."
    - John Maynard Keynes in 1927 [NB: The authenticity of this one is a little suspect]

    "I cannot help but raise a dissenting voice to statements that we are living in a fool's paradise, and that prosperity in this country must necessarily diminish and recede in the near future."
    - E. H. H. Simmons, President, New York Stock Exchange, January 12, 1928

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by 240GLT View Post
    Everything depends on what the PC's decide to do. We'll find out more about that shortly
    Not IMHO. Everything depends on what the Oil Companies decide to do. The PC's will obey them and then they will tell us what they want us to believe.
    Calgary will be directly impacted by what the oil companies do. Edmonton will be most affected by what the government does
    Parkdale

  27. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisD View Post
    I generally look at things like this. When people are talking about how good things are its not really that good, and when people are talking about how bad things are its not all that bad. Like they say, good businesses will be profitable during good and bad economies.
    It's all relative. Like they say:

    "It's a recession when your neighbor loses his job; it's a depression when you lose yours." - Harry Truman




    What is the difference between a recession and a depression?
    February 2007

    "During the major contraction phase of the Depression, between 1929 and 1933, real output in the United States fell nearly 30 percent. During the same period, according to retrospective studies, the unemployment rate rose from about 3 percent to nearly 25 percent, and many of those lucky enough to have a job were able to work only part-time."

    http://www.frbsf.org/education/publi...ion-difference

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by 240GLT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by 240GLT View Post
    Everything depends on what the PC's decide to do. We'll find out more about that shortly
    Not IMHO. Everything depends on what the Oil Companies decide to do. The PC's will obey them and then they will tell us what they want us to believe.
    Calgary will be directly impacted by what the oil companies do. Edmonton will be most affected by what the government does
    If there are cut-backs in the number of provincial civil servants, of which there are at most 10,000 more in Edmonton than in Calgary, the negative impact on metro Edmonton's economy will be small relative to our 740,000 employed labour force.

    Any job cuts in the broader public sector (e.g. health care, K-12 and post-secondary education) will be felt equally in both cities.

    Provincial government cuts in either city will pale in comparison to the impact of cuts by energy companies. In Calgary, these cuts will mostly be felt in head offices, in Edmonton more in energy-related refining, manufacturing and services.

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    A couple of points on this, Marcel talks about the coal mines around Grande Cache, there is only one mine and that is Grande Cache Coal. GCC produces high grade coal for steel making, virtually all of it is exported so this is an indicator of world wide issues. An interesting point to ponder, Milner Power operates a coal fired power plant that is on the same site as GCC, for years they have bought their coal from Luscar at Coal Valley not from the mine where their plant is located.
    GCC also is not the first mine in the west to close. Obed closed a few years ago, well before the tailings pond failure and Wolverine Coal in Tumbler Ridge also closed a year ago.
    This downturn is far beyond anything the PC's or any Canadian Oil companies can manipulate.
    Although we will see a slowdown of the economy, it shouldn't be near as bad as the 80's. The oilsands and industrial development that has occured since then has been tremendous, all of that development needs maintenance and the volume of that work is very hard to cut back.
    Even in the worst days of the 80's, Syncrude and Suncor still ran. Those plants are both more than double the size they were then and there have been a few new upgraders added to the mix as well.
    In the last few years no new upgraders have been built, just mines and SAGD, so we have actually been in a slow period for capital work.
    I think the result of the low oil price will be a reduction of government revenue but a lower than expected loss of work.

  30. #30

    Default Mass layoffs coming

    The economic bears are out! We seem to have swung from irrational optimism from irrational pessimism so quickly. It's amazing how quickly it can change.

    However, I do really like the quotes from Harry Truman about the difference between a recession and a depression and the quotes predicting lasting prosperity just in advance of the great depression. I think they illustrate two valuable points. First, economic prosperity or adversity is relative. Not everyone prospers in a boom and not every one suffers when things slow down. Second, the futility of trying to predict the economic future.

    I agree that Grande Cache may not be the best harbinger of impending lay offs across Alberta. The coal industry is not that significant to the Alberta economy and it has its own issues, one of which is increasingly stricter environmental regulation. Alberta is much more impacted by oil and oil prices. However, one could still argue the coal industry may forecast the economic future for Alberta. Coal and its price is affected by the slowing economy in China and the far east, which also affects other commodities including oil. Also, the oil industry (especially the oil sands) is facing increasing environmental pressure too. Even if the recent oil price decline proves to be temporary, environmental pressures will not go away and will probably increase in the future. Oil pipelines do not seem to be very popular in many places these days, which presents a big challenge for landlocked Alberta.

    I think Calgary will be affected first and most directly by the recent oil price decline. However, Edmonton is not immune, although it will be affected more indirectly. The likely provincial government response to declining oil royalties caused by lower oil prices is to freeze and cut spending in the upcoming budget. Then we will start to feel the pain here too.

    I notice how economists go out of the way to avoid using the word depression for any economic downturn. Perhaps they want to avoid panic and understandably, the term did get a bad rap after the Great Depression. I don't think the world in general is headed down that path. However, what happened in some parts of Europe (such as Greece and Spain) was really more than just a recession and we should admit that. When these place have over 15% unemployment for long periods of time, I think we should call it a depression. Fortunately, those places are not that big and in most of Europe it is not that bad.

    Hopefully the recent drop in oil prices will not prove to last too long and Alberta's economic decline will not be too severe or lengthy. I am optimistic that the US and Chinese economy will keep moving ahead and that Europe will eventually get itself out of the economic muck, so I think oil price will recover within the next year.

    In any event, now would be a very good time for us to promise (for some of us again?) not to **** away the next economic boom, if we are so lucky.

  31. #31

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    Never discount a single coal mine. In its own way it is very much a canary.

  32. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisD View Post
    I generally look at things like this. When people are talking about how good things are its not really that good, and when people are talking about how bad things are its not all that bad. Like they say, good businesses will be profitable during good and bad economies.
    Also, you can't really have booms without busts. You can't get the rewards, without some risk, it just doesn't happen, anywhere. Even if you lived in a perfectly diversified economy (if such a thing exits anywhere), you might still face a bust because the economy in respect of the company you work for in whatever industry it be, might crash. And, like you say, the bad isn't really that bad here, at least not for the last 20 years. Of course, maybe a bit tougher if you live in Grand Cache and property prices plument, making it quite a "loss" to leave, but I'm "guessing" prices were never that high though to start with there.
    Last edited by moahunter; 08-01-2015 at 04:59 PM.

  33. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by 240GLT View Post
    Calgary will be directly impacted by what the oil companies do. Edmonton will be most affected by what the government does
    For the white collar sector what you write is mostly true perhaps, but for blue collar, an industry downturn in oilfield services will have a tough impact in Edmonton. All those rigs being built in Nisku that may not need to be built, get built mostly by Edmontonians.
    Last edited by moahunter; 08-01-2015 at 05:01 PM.

  34. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    The economic bears are out! We seem to have swung from irrational optimism from irrational pessimism so quickly. It's amazing how quickly it can change.

    However, I do really like the quotes from Harry Truman about the difference between a recession and a depression and the quotes predicting lasting prosperity just in advance of the great depression. I think they illustrate two valuable points. First, economic prosperity or adversity is relative. Not everyone prospers in a boom and not every one suffers when things slow down. Second, the futility of trying to predict the economic future.
    ....
    We've been discussing this likelihood for years here on c2e. What is irrational is the lack of planning and anticipation for rare but possible occurrences. Some anticipation and preparation of such occurrences can dramatically reduce and mitigate the risks if not create opportunity.


    What are we going to do when oil prices collapse? (13-07-200
    http://www.connect2edmonton.ca/forum...ead.php?t=7872

    Strategy for next Recession/Depression (16-06-2006)
    http://www.connect2edmonton.ca/forum...read.php?t=480

    Housing Boom (25-08-2006)
    http://www.connect2edmonton.ca/forum...read.php?t=698

  35. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisD View Post
    I generally look at things like this. When people are talking about how good things are its not really that good, and when people are talking about how bad things are its not all that bad. Like they say, good businesses will be profitable during good and bad economies.
    Also, you can't really have booms without busts. You can't get the rewards, without some risk, it just doesn't happen, anywhere. Even if you lived in a perfectly diversified economy (if such a thing exits anywhere), you might still face a bust because the economy in respect of the company you work for in whatever industry it be, might crash. And, like you say, the bad isn't really that bad here, at least not for the last 20 years. Of course, maybe a bit tougher if you live in Grand Cache and property prices plument, making it quite a "loss" to leave, but I'm "guessing" prices were never that high though to start with there.
    For those that went in with their eyes open, it was purely an opportunity. However there's always others that will be loosing homes and life savings because people convinced them that the good times were here to stay.

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    unemployment rate for Alberta will inch up to about between 7% - 9 % in coming months
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJMorrocco View Post
    Did he also predict oil dropping below $50 this year?? Hard to believe anyone that says $80 oil by next winter.

    If they give the impression that an Alberta recession is coming people will take precautions and likely feed this recession.
    We're not in a recession yet. This is all due to Opec and Saudi Arabia. Oil will drop to about $30 before it goes back up again. I've seen this happen before. Depending who you talk to but planet earth has about 50 years worth of oil. It's all in the timing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jagators63 View Post
    unemployment rate for Alberta will inch up to about between 7% - 9 % in coming months
    Sharing the Nation's average. Things will change when the republicans in the US approve Keystone.
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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jagators63 View Post
    unemployment rate for Alberta will inch up to about between 7% - 9 % in coming months
    Sharing the Nation's average. Things will change when the republicans in the US approve Keystone.

    Obama is going to veto it once the bill reach his desk
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    ^ With a 67 vote for will override the veto.
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    Sharing the Nation's average. Things will change when the republicans in the US approve Keystone.
    What, other than some short term pipeline construction jobs and 50 guys to actually run and monitor the pipeline?

    Keystone does nothing for the Albertan working stiff, it just adds some extra to corporate & provincial coffers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitlope View Post
    Sharing the Nation's average. Things will change when the republicans in the US approve Keystone.
    What, other than some short term pipeline construction jobs and 50 guys to actually run and monitor the pipeline?

    Keystone does nothing for the Albertan working stiff, it just adds some extra to corporate & provincial coffers.
    And apparently it is less and less needed. However it will help reduce discounting and I'd guess boost royalties to the province which helps the working stiff.

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    I know where you're coming from KC, but at the same token I hate the thought of sending our raw product to get refined somewhere else. But that's for another thread

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    A lot of the mod yards will be ramping up in the next 1-3 months for the red water project. A solid 18 months and this is for 2000plus worker making fat stacks lol.

    Also genesee has been approved, I know some ironworkers that have been on site for 2 months now, this will be another 2000 man project spanning 3.5 years for the 2 units

    Let's not forget about other co-gens needed very soon, see sundance7 built also.
    On top there will be other big projects like downtowns arena

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    ^ Add the Heartland power plant, Transalta pipeline East, Northern Gateway pipeline and the Saudi's are saying $80 oil by May 2015. They aught to know because they're the ones that started this thing in the first place because they are worried about US fracking. This is just a blip on the radar screen. It's short term pain for long term gain.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 240GLT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by 240GLT View Post
    Everything depends on what the PC's decide to do. We'll find out more about that shortly
    Not IMHO. Everything depends on what the Oil Companies decide to do. The PC's will obey them and then they will tell us what they want us to believe.
    Calgary will be directly impacted by what the oil companies do. Edmonton will be most affected by what the government does
    I don't think you realize the amount of employment related to Oil there is in Edmonton. Take just Weatherford, Halliburton, National Oilwell Varco, Baker Hughes, and Schlumberger and you have thousands of highly paid employees. Edmonton is the Oil service centre of Canada.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Again, that sort of thing has happened repeatedly in Grande Cache for it's entire history as a town (which is only 40 years, and it was built entirely to mine coal). Of course it's a huge deal for the town, which I acknowledged. But again, it's not a great indicator of what is going to happen elsewhere in the province.
    Understood. Specifically its not necessarily a bellwether tie in as coal mines open and close and or have ongoing downturns. But as for the title of the thread I would bank on this being something we're going to be seeing in waves across the province.

    Arguably layoff events set in motion subsequent layoff events. Even across sectors. My take is theres been a lot of holding on and with nobody wanting to make the drastic moves first. I don't see how massive layoffs are to be avoided in Petroleum sector.
    The only shaky grounds right now is Calgary-Head offices. As per the oilsands projects- new constructions or maintenance overhaul- nothing has changed.

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    Alberta as an economic engine has thousands, I wouldn't be surprised at 10 000 workers in ft Mac that are getting free flights out of province. On a positive note oil companies may scale back to only edmonton calgary hubs for northern workers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 53latitude View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by 240GLT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by 240GLT View Post
    Everything depends on what the PC's decide to do. We'll find out more about that shortly
    Not IMHO. Everything depends on what the Oil Companies decide to do. The PC's will obey them and then they will tell us what they want us to believe.
    Calgary will be directly impacted by what the oil companies do. Edmonton will be most affected by what the government does
    I don't think you realize the amount of employment related to Oil there is in Edmonton. Take just Weatherford, Halliburton, National Oilwell Varco, Baker Hughes, and Schlumberger and you have thousands of highly paid employees. Edmonton is the Oil service centre of Canada.
    It would be interesting to try to assess the differences in our economy from the last bubble in the 1970s to this growth phase. Back then it was a much smaller population with a large undeveloped resource base, but significant low cost but declining conventional crude flowing from old wells, and province wide exploration for more conventional crude, etc.

    Today, there's a larger population base yet it seems our economy has been pretty much driven by mega projects where construction not operations creates front end employment but little in the way of operations related employment.

    Royalties? Relatively more or less compared to the 'old days'?

    If this oil sands construction cycle comes to a severe halt like we saw in the 80s and 90s, then will we be in a maintenance and operations mode?

    So, how different could we be from facing the effects of the US's housing boom/bust where leveraged house and condo buyers and investors drove huge amounts of job creation via construction. Longer time horizons and less leverage among the oil sands investors is one difference I suspect.

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    It could possibly be if the deflated price maintains for a long duration, but at this moment, that is not the case. Some sights only fly out Edmonton or Calgary, so out of province workers would fly commetcial to those hubs. They pay for those flights but are compensated once their reciets are turned in.

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    I know CDN North has had some major changes to its charter contracts going forward...decrease in a big way.

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    That don't mean much. They could have been outbit by Caribou North or Flare Air; or the projects they cater to are no longer requiring the amount of workers that were once required.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by 53latitude View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by 240GLT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by 240GLT View Post
    Everything depends on what the PC's decide to do. We'll find out more about that shortly
    Not IMHO. Everything depends on what the Oil Companies decide to do. The PC's will obey them and then they will tell us what they want us to believe.
    Calgary will be directly impacted by what the oil companies do. Edmonton will be most affected by what the government does
    I don't think you realize the amount of employment related to Oil there is in Edmonton. Take just Weatherford, Halliburton, National Oilwell Varco, Baker Hughes, and Schlumberger and you have thousands of highly paid employees. Edmonton is the Oil service centre of Canada.
    It would be interesting to try to assess the differences in our economy from the last bubble in the 1970s to this growth phase. Back then it was a much smaller population with a large undeveloped resource base, but significant low cost but declining conventional crude flowing from old wells, and province wide exploration for more conventional crude, etc.

    Today, there's a larger population base yet it seems our economy has been pretty much driven by mega projects where construction not operations creates front end employment but little in the way of operations related employment.

    Royalties? Relatively more or less compared to the 'old days'?

    If this oil sands construction cycle comes to a severe halt like we saw in the 80s and 90s, then will we be in a maintenance and operations mode?

    So, how different could we be from facing the effects of the US's housing boom/bust where leveraged house and condo buyers and investors drove huge amounts of job creation via construction. Longer time horizons and less leverage among the oil sands investors is one difference I suspect.
    There are so many live sites in alberta that will need maintance, over 22000 camp rooms in wood Buffalo.even in the recession rooms were booked up. There will always be plants hot rodding, and de bottleneck ing,environmental upgrades, failures, and small expansions. The shear amount of out of province workers who do not reside in the province is astounding. If things truly did tighten up we would see albertans going up North more. As a person who works in the trades, I see a big gap in lack of people who worked in the trades in late 80's and the 90's lean times! Since 1999 alberta has trained and retained some of the best, knowlagable workers in oilfield in the world. My personal thoughts are that there is no stopping this freight train.

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    I work for a crown corporation. Layoffs are not looming, however, certainly a hiring freeze and a stop to new contractors coming on board is out there. We've also been asked to find ways to slash our budgets by 5% this year over last year (2014). We've also been told COLA might not happen. I wonder if a COLA would be a decrease this year with how much the cost of gas has gone down.

    (COLA = cost of living adjustment for those that aren't familiar with the term)

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    I think it's a given that most projects will see a small reduction compared to 2014 projects. At Surmont, im hearing 20%. As per COLA, I could see a reduction as that correlates with inflation. When I can fill up my Avalanche for around 80.00 instead of 120+, something has to give?

    ^^
    Very true regarding live sights. Major overhaul has to be done every 4-5 years along with annual shutdowns for plants.

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    Approximately 300 laid off at Shell operations in northern AB:

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repor...ticle22380452/
    Last edited by AAAAE; 09-01-2015 at 11:36 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jagators63 View Post
    ...
    Obama is going to veto it once the bill reach his desk
    Nah he'll probably shuffle it to the bottom of the pile to try and delay any decision as long as possible, until time is almost over then veto.

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    ^ Keystone makes no sense to the US what with their shale oil ambitions. Opec is only doing this because of US shale oil. Basically its a power play Opec can't sustain for long. I'm no expert but from what I've been reading Opec wants a return to $70 oil and the Saudi's and Iran will trim production within 6 months. Its basically an experiment to see if the US will bend under pressure. Low oil prices will be good for the economy short term. This new status quo only helps Opec's market share but lower then $40 oil hurts everybody including them. Keystone will be on the back burner until the US 2016 election. Until then I expect to see these Opec power plays a few more times.
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    Who do you think owns the Surmont-currently phase two of five? Why would an american company enter the oilsands?

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    ^^This "power play" will have been a total waste for OPEC if they can't sustain it long enough to put a dent in both production and drilling capacity of non-OPEC members. All of the forecasts of rising prices in late 2015 and 2016 are optimistic. Prices won't rise until non-OPEC production falls. I expect OPEC to keep the taps open long enough to delay oilsands expansion projects for years and push a substantial fraction of the frackers into bankruptcy.

    I also disagree that Keystone wouldn't benefit the USA. They don't need our oil while they have access to cheap imports and the ability to restart the shale sector when those cheap imports start to dry up, but buying cheap Alberta bitumen and selling refined products on the world market can still make them money - money that we should be making here in Alberta. Lower crude prices allow for higher refining margins and layoffs in the extraction sector provide a source of labor for refinery construction. Now is the time to think about building some refining capacity here.

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    Someone clued on.

    There is a refinery that is suppose to start this year in Red Water as mentioned by Swillv8. As a matter of fact, the early stages has already commenced... I do agree that more has to be focused on that front though.

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    ^^ Opec is putting pressure om US shale oil. That's what this is all about and its short term, they even said so. I agree we need more refinery's here in Alberta.

    That's what I said. The US doesn't need Keystone now but will if Opec continues to put pressure on US shale oil expansion by driving oil prices down. That's where cheep imports come in like Alberta/Keystone. These Opec power plays will continue until after the 2016 US election. Two years is a long time away and SA and Iran can't ride this out for that long. I get the feeling that Opec will turn the taps on and off over the next 2 years don't you?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctzn-Ed View Post
    Someone clued on.

    There is a refinery that is suppose to start this year in Red Water as mentioned by Swillv8. As a matter of fact, the early stages has already commenced... I do agree that more has to be focused on that front though.
    And that's just the beginning. More pressure needs to but on US shale oil. Shale oil interests are using environmental groups and they in turn are using aboriginal and left wing factions here in Canada creating power plays of their own. US shale oil through these groups want to sway public opinion that Canada oil is dirty. Takes attention away from shale oil which is more "dirtier" then bitumen/our oil.The environmental groups here in Canada are being funded by their US affiliates, who in turn are being funded by shale oil interests in the US. In that respect this works out good for Keystone.
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    By supplying oil on keystone from alberta will only aid the states to export finished product. The USA is producing 9 million barrels a day? Up one million in the last year alone. Oil prices are not going to stabilize until usa cuts back to around 8million a day and bankruptcy of small shale outfits start I think I've read in the last 30-60 days the USA has increased 47000 barrels a day production. This is after the Saudi oil minister told the media it's the USA turn to cut back production

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    Quote Originally Posted by ctzn-Ed View Post
    Someone clued on.

    There is a refinery that is suppose to start this year in Red Water as mentioned by Swillv8. As a matter of fact, the early stages has already commenced... I do agree that more has to be focused on that front though.
    Northwest Upgrader (NWU) of which you speak has been on the books since 2006 to start.

    It has been deferred multiple times, the primary shareholder CNRL is one of the most if not the most cost conscious owners in the Oilsands industry, Northwest could be deferred again however it is substantially progressed from the Engineering-Procurement (EP) side of things, so hopefully not.

    This will affect a lot, but it will never be as bad as it was because of the massive industrial sector that is profitable and already operating.

    If oil does not recover, the oil service industry related to rig construction and maintenance will be hit hard and maybe gutted, the major construction projects sector will be hit hard and the amount of out of provinve labour will be reduced to near zero and the EP/Owner Project Teams side of things (primarily Calgary) will be brutalized similar to 2008 where mass layoffs occurred and job sharing was in place to keep people.
    The smaller construction projects and maintenance sector should continue to be steady but not a breakneck.

    Major construction (mega-projectish) has a few good projects (I know of) that likely will not be shelved that are in the early stages and those are:
    Northwest - Hopefully it finally goes
    Fort Hills - Though Suncor the primary shareholder deferred Voyageur multiple times eventually cancelling it
    Genesee Power Station
    Sundance Power Station
    Brion Energy - This is the Owner's first project and they are likely cost sensitive, however contracts are awarded and site works progressed far enough it is nearly impossible to cancel

    Keystone would be a strong way to further open the marketplace for Alberta Heavy Crude to make it's way to the golf coast where the refining capacity already exists and the upgrades are complete to handle it. While it doesn't move the refining and related offshoots to Alberta, if continues the need to feed the pipelines and hopefully gradual expansion of the Oilsands. It also provides an alternative to crude from South America and Mexico at those refining points which may be valuable to the US.
    Last edited by DanC; 09-01-2015 at 01:51 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    And that's just the beginning. More pressure needs to but on US shale oil. Shale oil interests are using environmental groups and they in turn are using aboriginal and left wing factions here in Canada creating power plays of their own. US shale oil through these groups want to sway public opinion that Canada oil is dirty. Takes attention away from shale oil which is more "dirtier" then bitumen/our oil.The environmental groups here in Canada are being funded by their US affiliates, who in turn are being funded by shale oil interests in the US. In that respect this works out good for Keystone.
    I'd be surprised if you could find a shale oil producer opposed to the Keystone XL pipeline, and certainly not the industry as a whole.

    The opposite is the case for a number of reasons. The heavier grades of oil produced from bitumen blend well with the very light shale grades both in pipelines and for refining. The Bakken shale producers in particular want to hitch a ride on Keystone XL so they more easily ship North Dakota light oil to the refining complexes on the Gulf Coast.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jagators63 View Post
    unemployment rate for Alberta will inch up to about between 7% - 9 % in coming months
    Said no economist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swillv8 View Post
    By supplying oil on keystone from alberta will only aid the states to export finished product. The USA is producing 9 million barrels a day? Up one million in the last year alone. Oil prices are not going to stabilize until usa cuts back to around 8million a day and bankruptcy of small shale outfits start I think I've read in the last 30-60 days the USA has increased 47000 barrels a day production. This is after the Saudi oil minister told the media it's the USA turn to cut back production
    Keystone makes no sense, then for the US if that's the case. We can export our own oil via Transalta/and Gateway, Under forty dollar oil is bad business for everyone. Its to the best interests of the US if we get $70+ oil, means the US makes money and so do we as the end user thus we avoid short term massive layoffs across the Province, if that makes sense.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jagators63 View Post
    unemployment rate for Alberta will inch up to about between 7% - 9 % in coming months
    Said no economist.
    Indeed. Todd Hirsch suggested a rise to maybe 6 per cent.
    ... gobsmacked

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    Quote Originally Posted by East McCauley View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    And that's just the beginning. More pressure needs to but on US shale oil. Shale oil interests are using environmental groups and they in turn are using aboriginal and left wing factions here in Canada creating power plays of their own. US shale oil through these groups want to sway public opinion that Canada oil is dirty. Takes attention away from shale oil which is more "dirtier" then bitumen/our oil.The environmental groups here in Canada are being funded by their US affiliates, who in turn are being funded by shale oil interests in the US. In that respect this works out good for Keystone.
    I'd be surprised if you could find a shale oil producer opposed to the Keystone XL pipeline, and certainly not the industry as a whole.

    The opposite is the case for a number of reasons. The heavier grades of oil produced from bitumen blend well with the very light shale grades both in pipelines and for refining. The Bakken shale producers in particular want to hitch a ride on Keystone XL so they more easily ship North Dakota light oil to the refining complexes on the Gulf Coast.
    Actually Bakken slips into the SW corner of Manitoba making them a shale oil producer albeit on a smaller scale then the us.
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    http://calgaryherald.com/business/en...-mine-facility Layoffs. I heard Trinidad is laying off too.
    Last edited by Drumbones; 09-01-2015 at 02:40 PM.

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    Was already posted, here is the full text of the article from the Herald.

    Shell cuts up to 300 jobs at oilsands mine facility

    Shell Canada told employees this week it will cut up to 10 per cent of 3,000 jobs at the Athabasca Oil Sands Project mining operations it manages north of Fort McMurray in an effort to improve efficiency.

    Spokesman Cameron Yost confirmed the news Friday and said that employees displaced by the moves to be rolled out gradually over an undetermined time period will be able to reapply for positions elsewhere with Shell.

    “It’s an adjustment to our oilsands operations organizational structure to ensure we have the right number of people in the right positions,” he said.

    “The reason I say it’s not layoffs in the traditional sense of the word is that those affected by the adjustment will be considered for opportunities in other parts of Shell’s Canadian and global business.”

    He said the actual number of layoffs will be “well below” 300 as cuts affect between five and 10 per cent of jobs.

    Oilsands producers have emphasized cost-cutting in recent capital budget announcements and said they are hoping for reduced bills from service providers as activity wanes.

    Thermal oilsands giant Cenovus Energy Inc. said last month it will cut its spending in 2015 to between $2.5 billion and $2.7 billion, down about 15 per cent from 2014, but will retain its 3,750 staff — although some jobs now in Calgary offices could be relocated to northern Alberta as expansions come on stream.

    Earlier, chairman Murray Edwards said oilsands miner and thermal producer Canadian Natural Resources Ltd. had implemented a hiring freeze last summer to control costs but would not be laying off staff.

    In a meeting with reporters last August, Shell Canada president Lorraine Mitchelmore said that under then new Royal Dutch Shell chief executive Ben van Beurden, business units around the globe were being ordered to cut costs and enhance productivity as they compete for limited capital investment dollars.

    She said Shell Canada is not working toward any specific cost-cutting or productivity goals but said a warehousing efficiency initiative was an example of what was being done.

    Yost said the oilsands reductions are related to the directive and don’t result from recent weakness in oil prices.

    “Even if oil prices had remained stable, we would still be looking at all aspects of our business to ensure we are remaining competitive,” he said.

    Shell is the operator and 60 per cent owner of the Athabasca Oil Sands Project, a joint venture with Chevron Canada Ltd. and Marathon Oil Canada Corp. each holding 20 per cent. The partnership includes the Scotford upgrader and the Quest carbon capture and storage project northeast of Edmonton.

    The cuts come despite regulatory approval in 2013 of a plan to expand the AOSP’s Jackpine oilsands mine by 100,000 barrels per day.

    Last month, an aboriginal challenge of the approval was rejected in Federal Court.
    How many more mass layoff coincidences do we need until people realize it's not just a coincidence? Second announcement in just as many days.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DanC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ctzn-Ed View Post
    Someone clued on.

    There is a refinery that is suppose to start this year in Red Water as mentioned by Swillv8. As a matter of fact, the early stages has already commenced... I do agree that more has to be focused on that front though.
    Northwest Upgrader (NWU) of which you speak has been on the books since 2006 to start.

    It has been deferred multiple times, the primary shareholder CNRL is one of the most if not the most cost conscious owners in the Oilsands industry, Northwest could be deferred again however it is substantially progressed from the Engineering-Procurement (EP) side of things, so hopefully not.

    This will affect a lot, but it will never be as bad as it was because of the massive industrial sector that is profitable and already operating.

    If oil does not recover, the oil service industry related to rig construction and maintenance will be hit hard and maybe gutted, the major rrconstruction projects sector will be hit hard and the amount of out of provinve labour will be reduced to near zero and the EP/Owner Project Teams side of things (primarily Calgary) will be brutalized similar to 2008 where mass layoffs occurred and job sharing was in place to keep people.
    rThe smaller construction projects and maintenance sector should continue to be steady but not a breakneck.

    Major construction (mega-projectish) has a few good projects (I know of) that likely will not be shelved that are in the early stages and those are:
    Northwest - Hopefully it finally goes
    Fort Hills - Though Suncor the primary shareholder deferred Voyageur multiple times eventually cancelling it
    Genesee Power Station
    Sundance Power Station
    Brion Energy - This is the Owner's first project and they are likely cost sensitive, however contracts are awarded and site works progressed far enough it is nearly impossible to cancel

    Keystone would be a strong way to further open the or Alberta Heavy Crude to make it's way to the golf coast where the refining capacity already exists and the upgrades are complete to handle it. While it doesn't move the trefining and related offshoots to Alberta, if continues the need to feed the pipelines and hopefully gradual expansion of the Oilsands. It also provides an alternative to crude from South America and Mexico at those refining points which may be valuable to the US.
    Yes, the upgrader is Northwest and yes it was to start around 2006. There has been carpenters there since this past fall. Bad news for Forthill's project... according to Lang and Oleary, Suncor has put that project on the shelve.

  75. #75
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    Here's another mass layoff, although it's mostly of the American kind there are some Canadian connections. Story is from CNN, December 30 2014.

    Cheap oil's victims: Civeo slashes over 1K jobs

    Gas at $2 a gallon isn't good for everyone.

    More than 1,000 employees at Civeo (CVEO), a provider of housing for oil workers, have lost their jobs in recent months. There's concern this is only the beginning of the energy sector layoffs.

    Now that crude oil has plunged to nearly $50, Big Oil companies like ConocoPhillips (COP) are significantly dialing back spending. That's bad news for companies like Civeo that depend on the energy boom.

    Civeo primarily houses people working in the Canadian oil sands industry, a previously red-hot area of the North American economy that relies on lofty oil prices to turn a profit.

    The announcement from the Texas-based company provides a reminder that while cheaper oil prices are a gift to millions of consumers, the selloff is also causing economic pain for some people who have benefited from the energy revolution.

    More job cuts are expected, including at shale oil producers that don't survive the oil meltdown. Earlier this month Halliburton (HAL) said it plans to cut 1,000 positions, while BP (BP) announced an unspecified number of layoffs as part of a $1 billion restructuring program.

    JPMorgan recently warned Texas may even sink into an oil-fueled recession.

    Crude reality: Shares of Civeo plummeted 50% on Tuesday, a day after the company dropped a bombshell on investors.

    Civeo warned of gloomy 2015 financial results due to slower spending by major oil companies in North America, especially in Canada's oil sands fields.

    Just look at the company's depressed occupancy rates: Just 35% to 40% of its lodge rooms in Canada are even under contract heading into 2015. That's down significantly from over three-quarters contracted at the start of 2014.

    That's why Civeo said it has reduced headcount in its Canadian and U.S. operations by 30% and 45%, respectively, from levels at the start of 2014.

    The company told CNNMoney it employed 4,068 people as of the end of 2013.

    Civeo said it closed two lodges in Canada and a manufacturing location in Australia. It's also assessing options for two U.S. locations.

    Dividend abandoned: Looking ahead, Civeo projects 2015 capital expenditures of $75 million to $85 million. That's a huge slowdown from this year's estimated capital spending of $260 million to $280 million.

    Civeo further disappointed investors by abandoning its dividend to "maintain the company's financial flexibility." Instead of paying out a dividend, management plans to deploy excess cash flow and existing cash balances to pay down debt.

    As if tumbling oil prices weren't enough, Civeo has been hurt by currency headwinds in its two biggest markets. The U.S. dollar has strengthened meaningfully against both the Canadian and Australian dollars in recent months.
    http://money.cnn.com/2014/12/30/news...d=SF_INV_River

  76. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitlope View Post
    Was already posted, here is the full text of the article from the Herald.

    Shell cuts up to 300 jobs at oilsands mine facility

    Shell Canada told employees this week it will cut up to 10 per cent of 3,000 jobs at the Athabasca Oil Sands Project mining operations it manages north of Fort McMurray in an effort to improve efficiency.

    Spokesman Cameron Yost confirmed the news Friday and said that employees displaced by the moves to be rolled out gradually over an undetermined time period will be able to reapply for positions elsewhere with Shell.

    “It’s an adjustment to our oilsands operations organizational structure to ensure we have the right number of people in the right positions,” he said.

    “The reason I say it’s not layoffs in the traditional sense of the word is that those affected by the adjustment will be considered for opportunities in other parts of Shell’s Canadian and global business.”

    He said the actual number of layoffs will be “well below” 300 as cuts affect between five and 10 per cent of jobs.

    Oilsands producers have emphasized cost-cutting in recent capital budget announcements and said they are hoping for reduced bills from service providers as activity wanes.

    Thermal oilsands giant Cenovus Energy Inc. said last month it will cut its spending in 2015 to between $2.5 billion and $2.7 billion, down about 15 per cent from 2014, but will retain its 3,750 staff — although some jobs now in Calgary offices could be relocated to northern Alberta as expansions come on stream.

    Earlier, chairman Murray Edwards said oilsands miner and thermal producer Canadian Natural Resources Ltd. had implemented a hiring freeze last summer to control costs but would not be laying off staff.

    In a meeting with reporters last August, Shell Canada president Lorraine Mitchelmore said that under then new Royal Dutch Shell chief executive Ben van Beurden, business units around the globe were being ordered to cut costs and enhance productivity as they compete for limited capital investment dollars.

    She said Shell Canada is not working toward any specific cost-cutting or productivity goals but said a warehousing efficiency initiative was an example of what was being done.

    Yost said the oilsands reductions are related to the directive and don’t result from recent weakness in oil prices.

    “Even if oil prices had remained stable, we would still be looking at all aspects of our business to ensure we are remaining competitive,” he said.

    Shell is the operator and 60 per cent owner of the Athabasca Oil Sands Project, a joint venture with Chevron Canada Ltd. and Marathon Oil Canada Corp. each holding 20 per cent. The partnership includes the Scotford upgrader and the Quest carbon capture and storage project northeast of Edmonton.

    Thets come despite regulatory approval in 2013 of a plan to expand the AOSP’s Jackpine oilsands mine by 100,000 barrels per day.

    Last month, an aboriginal challenge of the approval was rejected in Federal Court.
    How many more mass layoff coincidences do we need until people realize it's not just a coincidence? Second announcement in just as many days.
    300 of 3000 direct Shell employees. What you don't know is that there is also 3000-4000 subtrades working at Albian as well, so stop that talk. I was there up to this late summer and witness high management planning at the Jackpine side for the expansion which is to begin in 2016. There is even talks of camp expansion. Im based at Surmont right now, but will be transfering to Husky sunrise after my Christmas break with my current company to help set up our scaffold operations there. Since being off from Devember 19 to now, i have also recieved 7 phone calls to come for seven different shut downs, so what should I be worried about ?

  77. #77
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    I'm not worried myself either Ctzn-Ed, I work shut down's too as a refractory bricklayer and as we both know maintenance still needs to occur. Call us the lucky ones.

  78. #78

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    So you should also know the protocol if layoffs- local, local suitcase, and travel suitcase ( with minor discretionary calls here and there ).

  79. #79
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    Yeah, that works for union trades. Not everything in Ft Mac is union and not everything is trades.

    Regardless, whether it affects us or not, there will be layoffs, although the oilsands have some insulation because the infrastructure is already in place. Conventional oil & fracking? Not so sure.

    IMO, you're looking at this through a very tiny window and only thinking how it's gonna affect you. There's a lot of other people and a lot of them don't quite have the "recession proof" job that you and I have the luxury of.

  80. #80
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    I don't think anyone should be worried about massive 2008 layoffs right now. Nobody in local media is saying rescission, yet. This wont be as bad as 2009. This oil "crisis" is artificial as it's not like we have a shortage of world oil right now. Opec is putting pressure on US shale oil and its my belief that once oil falls down to unsustainable values, the US will back off shale production and bring their production back to post last Opec meeting values. In other words, don't panic.
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

  81. #81
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    I personally think it is the US and their Saudi friends bringing the price down to cripple Putin and having the oil industry suffer short term to do it. It is actually good for other sectors of the economy to have cheap energy so it evens out. Only problem is Putin is making pals with China and pipelines are being constructed to ship there but no doubt the Russian economy is tanking at this time. http://oilprice.com/Energy/Oil-Price...l-Prices.htmlt
    Last edited by Drumbones; 09-01-2015 at 04:28 PM.

  82. #82

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    ^I'm sure your right. I was just reading the other day that Russia is getting very close to a recession. I to think this could be orchestrated to put Putin in his place. Hit him in the wallet and he will see what the rest of the world can do to his economy. Maybe when they see Putin has been silenced enough countries cut back on production and the price will start to go back up. Even if China gets oil from Russia it still would not be enough to meet it's needs, it's still going to look elsewhere.
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

  83. #83

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    Agree with you Drumbone. All this fiasco came after the sanction to Russia.
    ^^^^
    Agree that not all is working with unions. The majority are. Do you ever drive from town to sights or sights back to town? You don't get Edmonton traffic like rushhours because because their not union.

  84. #84

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    ^I'm sure your right. I was just reading the other day that Russia is getting very close to a recession. I to think this could be orchestrated to put Putin in his place. Hit him in the wallet and he will see what the rest of the world can do to his economy. Maybe when they see Putin has been silenced enough countries cut back on production and the price will start to go back up. Even if China gets oil from Russia it still would not be enough to meet it's needs, it's still going to be looking elsewhere.
    That is why China owns Opti Nixon (Long Lake).

  85. #85
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    Opti Nexen. You're thinking of tricky dicky. That's about 70,000 bpd from Long Lake. They own 8% of Syncrude too. I think they will be involved heavily in future oilsands ventures, especially if the Northern Gateway is built which would be the direct link to China.

  86. #86

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    Yes and thank you! I forgot how she was spelled hence Long Lake in brackets as we refer to it as that lol.

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    CTV local news was interviewing somebody on the street saying by this time next year we could have about 40 cranes downtown, did anyone else see that?
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    CTV local news was interviewing somebody on the street saying by this time next year we could have about 40 cranes downtown, did anyone else see that?
    Yes, I hope he is right! He said there are 19 cranes downtown at the moment and should be 31 this summer and maybe 40 at this time next year. Crazy times!

  89. #89

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hilman View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    CTV local news was interviewing somebody on the street saying by this time next year we could have about 40 cranes downtown, did anyone else see that?
    Yes, I hope he is right! He said there are 19 cranes downtown at the moment and should be 31 this summer and maybe 40 at this time next year. Crazy times!
    Maybe the timing will be right this time to offset other layoffs. We got lucky in the 2008/09 crisis and barely felt it - hopefully we can float through this one too.

  90. #90

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    Quote Originally Posted by East McCauley View Post
    I'd be surprised if you could find a shale oil producer opposed to the Keystone XL pipeline, and certainly not the industry as a whole.
    Agreed, keep in mind also that Keystone XL will carry an additional 100k bpd is shale oil as well.

    It's interesring to still read comments by people saying "we should refine it here". Aside from the environmental impacts and massive cost of building another refinery being billions that will likely never pay itself back, how would you get the refined product to market in the US? You could send it by Pipeline to Houston, which has refined oil pipelines to the big US markets, but how would that make any economic sense whatsoever, when they have surplus capacity to refine heavy oil dirt cheap (and for much lower wages than we can)? The new refinery just wouldn't be able to compete.

    I think it's great if private sector invests billions in Albertas economy, but there is no market to build a refinery (there might be for other opportunities like chemicals or plastics plants, especially if oil prices stay low), and I'd much rather have our government invest billions in infrastructure / diversifying (LRT, universities, roads, etc.).
    Last edited by moahunter; 10-01-2015 at 09:36 AM.

  91. #91

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    ^ we can transport finished product no problem, with all the huffing and puffing from industry about needing pipelines, interestingly when the taps started to flow shipping by rail exploded. Not industries top pick for transport

    As for paying off, these upgraders and refineries take 3-7 years to pay off. Even at 10 years what kind of business can u possibly ever dream owning that will pay back so handsomely?

    Environmentally Canada has way higher standards then the USA on emissions. I was in El Paso texas in 2013. They have refineries in their city. I saw darker thicker emissions from their tired looking plants.
    Last edited by Swillv8; 10-01-2015 at 09:54 AM.

  92. #92

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    ^ if you think it's such a great business case, you put up your money and build it. There are thousands of companies investing an our oil industry, they choose higher margin investments for a reason, it's silly to invest in something with a horrible return due to competition from lower wage locations / crazy capital cost, rather than to invest in something with a very good return. If you want to get into refining, the way to do it economically is buy up one of the many underutilized refineries in the US for a pittance, not to waste billions on a shiny new one in a high wage economy. That's what Husky did (smart Chinese owner), with the Lima purchase in Ohio. If it doesn't make sense for the private sector to invest in a commercial business, it sure doesn't make sense for the public sector to. If the government "must" invest in a commercial venture (I don't think it should), it would make a ton more sense to spend billions on a giga battery plant (at least that would diversify us a bit if the world moves to electric or fuel cell vehicles), than in another oil boiler plant.
    Last edited by moahunter; 10-01-2015 at 11:34 AM.

  93. #93
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    Prentice was saying Alberta is on the brink of a multi Billion dollar deficit over the next 3 years. AG is even considering a return of AHC user fees to keep health care sustainable.
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

  94. #94

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    If I had money to flaunt I would! So are u a fan of exporting all manufacturing and every possible business that we can to 3rd world nation chasing bottom $$$$ because essentially that's an exaggerated proposal I'm understanding you advocate.

    David black a billionaire has zero problem building refinery on the west coast just the hurdles are enormous, and these are not nessessarily financial; but rather approvals and process to maneuverer.

    Let's not forget the 10's of billions industry does invest every single year in alberta!

    If we as a country and a province allow raw products to be shipped with little value added jobs USA based companies which is the majority stakeholders will be more then happy to take advantage and ship to lower wage workers , end of story

  95. #95

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    ^ Peter Lougheed was a leader of vision that made this Province great. All the rest were puppets IMO.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  96. #96

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    I'm to young to know much to know much about lougheed, but he did good for this province

  97. #97
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    ^ I came to Alberta in the middle of Lougheed's term in 1978. During Lougheed's term was the Heritage Trust fund, Syncrude etc. I didn't follow politics until my 40's.
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    ^ Peter Lougheed was a leader of vision that made this Province great. All the rest were puppets IMO.
    Sarcasm?

    He definitely did everything he could for his hometown. That is fact.

  99. #99

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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    ^ I came to Alberta in the middle of Lougheed's term in 1978. During Lougheed's term was the Heritage Trust fund, Syncrude etc. I didn't follow politics until my 40's.
    Lougheed was great but much of the development was destined to occur whether or not Lougheed came to power. The Heritage Savings Trust Fund was a move by a true statesman (who had personal experience backing it up) but it's sad to see how it was totally neutered by the politicians that followed.

  100. #100
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    ^ I was more of a Ralph Kline guy for all his transgressions and controversy, Ralph cared about people. One of my colleagues is a pretty good guitar player and he told me how when it came to play a request in a bar Kline would like would always drop my colleague a $20 and say something like play it again please Sparky."
    Last edited by envaneo; 11-01-2015 at 12:34 AM.
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