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Thread: Tim Hortons popularity

  1. #1

    Default Tim Hortons popularity

    Any thoughts on the buyout by Burger King?

    Personally, my desire to go to TH has been in decline ever since Wendy's bought it out. (Remember the combined locations?) I don't see how this merger will do it any good, but what do I know, I was guessing years ago and for years afterward that it would soon be in trouble as the great near-retirement- age staff disappeared from the scene and coincidentally the washrooms and facilities got increasingly more disgusting. Then squeezing them into gas stations, serving doughnuts cooked a week or something earlier (flash baked? or something) all seemed to me to ways to drive away customers. I was wrong, wrong, wrong. My view now is that the drive thru (where ignorance is bliss) and coffee gave it a second life. Of course I may be wrong.
    Last edited by KC; 25-08-2014 at 09:39 PM.

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    So it's been in decline since 1995?

    *edit* original post edited since this post
    Last edited by Alex.L; 25-08-2014 at 09:39 PM.

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    ^So have your powers of observation.
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  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex.L View Post
    So it's been in decline since 1995?

    *edit* original post edited since this post
    Yeah sorry, I had to clarify my post - a lot. (I think it's been in decline, but the numbers, profits, huge lineups, etc. speak otherwise.)

  5. #5

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    C'mon guys, make up your minds. I still want my #3 post to remain witty and in the moment.
    According to the newspapers I don't think this merger will change anything except Burger King's taxes. I have been into a Time Horton's about 3 times in the last 10 days to meet friends. In 3 different locations. It seems the servers are always on the go. Those places seem like gold mines.
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    Burger King bought Tim Hortons so they can move their head office to Canada legally where corporate taxes are lower.
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    Yep. From what I've read, this is nothing more than a tax break for 3G (owners of BK), being corp tax in Ontario/Canada being less than in most States/Merica, or something like that.

    And whoever complains we're that socialist needs a bitchslap.

  8. #8

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    Funny that we have lower taxes and still can provide healthcare.

    Number one reason why I never moved to the US even if the weather is better.

    Good to be a Canadian.

    If this deal goes through, just watch the US plug this tax loophole. They lost too many manufacturing jobs to China and now the HQ's to Ireland, Canada and elsewhere.
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    The acquisition by Burger King is a done deal:
    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repor...ticle20203522/

    I wonder what happens to those Tim Horton's that are still co-locating with Wendy's?
    Examples: 104 Ave and 111 St, 112 St across from U of A Hospital, and in Canmore.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    The acquisition by Burger King is a done deal:
    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repor...ticle20203522/

    I wonder what happens to those Tim Horton's that are still co-locating with Wendy's?
    Examples: 104 Ave and 111 St, 112 St across from U of A Hospital, and in Canmore.
    There is also one in Red Deer on gasoline alley.
    I'm having people over later to stare at their phones,if you want to drop by

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Funny that we have lower taxes and still can provide healthcare.
    That's an incredibly simplistic view of taxes in the two countries. The reality is that the US has a lower tax take relative to GDP than Canada does: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...centage_of_GDP

    Canada: 31-32%

    US: 24-27%

    While the top corporate tax rate in the US is significantly higher, virtually no one pays that rate because their tax code is so riddled with exemptions and loopholes, to a far greater degree than ours is. CBC's article indicated that the tax rates paid by BK and TH in the US and Canada respectively are less than a percent apart: http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/tim-...nada-1.2745754

    Burger King's latest annual report reveals that thanks to some generous tax breaks on overseas profits, the company's effective tax rate last year was 27.5 per cent. Contrast that with the 26.8 per cent tax that Tim Hortons says it paid last year.
    But once the entire company is based in Canada, who knows what kind of magic the tax lawyers will be able to work.

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    About the only time I ever to go a Tim Horton's is when travelling. The food is alright for fast food and the coffee isn't completely terrible.

    I heard an interesting analysis of the coffee vs what's happening in the US with fast food coffee. It suggested the primary reason Tim's coffee was popular in Canada was almost no one drinks it black, they fill it with lots of cream and sugar essentially overwhelming the coffee itself so they don't have to use a better grade. Probably why I don't really like their coffee as I drink coffee black.

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  13. #13

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    I hate when people knock Tim's coffee. There's infinity choices out there. Tim's is just one. I'm well versed on their bean selection and buying process - it's incredibly good and they don't use crap. Don't knock it because you don't like it, because the reality is that a lot of people do, far more than any other single coffee out there, by a ridiculous margin, actually.
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    Sorry but I do get to knock it if I don't like it. To my taste it's average coffee and the best thing going for it is it's pretty much identical across the chain so you know what you're getting. Just because lots of people have a different opinion doesn't mean I don't get to voice mine.

    As for popularity, it dominates Canada but world wide it's not even close. In fact they're closing stores in the US because they can't compete with Dunkin Donuts (#2 in the world). Tim's popularity is largely based on exploiting patriotism combined with a consistent product.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    The acquisition by Burger King is a done deal:
    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repor...ticle20203522/

    I wonder what happens to those Tim Horton's that are still co-locating with Wendy's?
    Examples: 104 Ave and 111 St, 112 St across from U of A Hospital, and in Canmore.
    Heard through a source that owns the Tim's-Wendy's locations that it will be status quo. Both stores are "separate franchises" in the same building, usually both are owned by the same person. Since Wendy's spun off Tim's they pretty much have to be run them separately since the franchisee reports now to two completely different companies.

    I'm sure as time goes on Tims/BK will try and get those franchisees to leave Wendy's and become BK, but I'm sure that will be a long time coming.

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    A very good friend of mine is a corporate Vice President and legal council with Tim Horton's. I'm sure she's extremely busy right now, but some day I must ask her about the takeover or merger or whatever else it is.
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  17. #17

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    Randomly adding in my 2 cents.

    Am I the only one that thinks they need to cut back and only need to serve their French Vanilla, black coffee and ice cap.

    Those new coffee lattes/mochas hibrids are horrid. And the whip cream isn't even whip cream.

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    Meh, Timmy's isn't even real coffee, it's just some sort of concocted drink.

    The worst part is Joe Sixpack believes this is coffee.

  19. #19

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    I'm not as big a coffee drinker as I used to be. Maybe that's because I'm not sitting all day in an office anymore. I was once told that some restaurants put salt in their coffee grounds as they buy cheaper brands and salt makes it less bitter. I do not use salt in cooking and I do not put it on my food. As far as salt goes I can taste it as my taste buds are not used to it. Now sometimes if I do have black coffee I have been able to taste salt. I usually find this in mom and pop type restaurants not in the big chains. It's also a good thing to know if you have high blood pressure. There could be hidden salt in your coffee.
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  20. #20

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    Hopefully this deal allows Tim Hortons to use some of that Burger King logistics to expand worldwide. Really other then that i dont see how anything will change.

  21. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Turnbull View Post
    Sorry but I do get to knock it if I don't like it. To my taste it's average coffee and the best thing going for it is it's pretty much identical across the chain so you know what you're getting. Just because lots of people have a different opinion doesn't mean I don't get to voice mine.

    As for popularity, it dominates Canada but world wide it's not even close. In fact they're closing stores in the US because they can't compete with Dunkin Donuts (#2 in the world). Tim's popularity is largely based on exploiting patriotism combined with a consistent product.
    So say you don't like it. Don't say it's crap. It's not crap. They source good coffee.
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  22. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    I'm not as big a coffee drinker as I used to be. Maybe that's because I'm not sitting all day in an office anymore. I was once told that some restaurants put salt in their coffee grounds as they buy cheaper brands and salt makes it less bitter. I do not use salt in cooking and I do not put it on my food. As far as salt goes I can taste it as my taste buds are not used to it. Now sometimes if I do have black coffee I have been able to taste salt. I usually find this in mom and pop type restaurants not in the big chains. It's also a good thing to know if you have high blood pressure. There could be hidden salt in your coffee.
    After 8 years in the foodservice industry (sales), I have never, not once, ever heard of anyone ever putting salt in their coffee. If that was a thing, I'd know about it.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  23. #23

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    I disagree, however I get most of my coffee via Tonx & online roasters, because I am picky about my coffee.

    It's reasonably OK low-end mass-market swill. It tends to be overroasted & doesn't have a very complex set of flavours.
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    Tim's does source quality beans, and I can drink their coffee black quite easily. Now, is it the best tasting coffee in my eyes, no. However, it does have the distinction of being the best tasting colon jumpstarter I know of!

    Seriously though, it is not disgusting, it is not bad, it is rather good. I actually like their tin of coffee when I use it out at the ranch. It is probably the best one I've bought, and I do like Starbuck's Komodo Dragon roast but out there, Tim's just works.

    As for salt...I've never seen that urban myth actually been used. I'd taste salt in my coffee, and I've been to many a cast iron stomach rural roadside roadkill café, and the worst I've had is burnt MJB coffee...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Turnbull View Post
    Sorry but I do get to knock it if I don't like it. To my taste it's average coffee and the best thing going for it is it's pretty much identical across the chain so you know what you're getting. Just because lots of people have a different opinion doesn't mean I don't get to voice mine.

    As for popularity, it dominates Canada but world wide it's not even close. In fact they're closing stores in the US because they can't compete with Dunkin Donuts (#2 in the world). Tim's popularity is largely based on exploiting patriotism combined with a consistent product.
    So say you don't like it. Don't say it's crap. It's not crap. They source good coffee.
    I never said it crap and the sourcing comment was referencing an interview I heard about why they can't seem to get traction in the US. Whether he was accurate or not is obviously up for debate but he saw little likelihood Burger King would start getting it's coffee from Tim Horton's because it he felt it was not up to standard for the US market.

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  26. #26

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    Main reason I drink Tims is its cheap and to **** off all the Coffee snobs. Oh you are an expert on coffee? You dont say?!?!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    I'm not as big a coffee drinker as I used to be. Maybe that's because I'm not sitting all day in an office anymore. I was once told that some restaurants put salt in their coffee grounds as they buy cheaper brands and salt makes it less bitter. I do not use salt in cooking and I do not put it on my food. As far as salt goes I can taste it as my taste buds are not used to it. Now sometimes if I do have black coffee I have been able to taste salt. I usually find this in mom and pop type restaurants not in the big chains. It's also a good thing to know if you have high blood pressure. There could be hidden salt in your coffee.
    After 8 years in the foodservice industry (sales), I have never, not once, ever heard of anyone ever putting salt in their coffee. If that was a thing, I'd know about it.
    A real good friend of mine lived in a small Alberta town. On the weekends she had a job in the town restaurant. She said they used to do it there. Me and another girl I used to work with would get to work at 7 a.m. whoever was there first used to put the first pot of coffee on. One morning I walked into the kitchen and she was doing this. She was the one that said it made cheap coffee taste less bitter, more mellow. I have never tasted salt in Tim Horton's coffee or Starbucks (although I prefer Tim Horton's coffee).
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    I'm not a coffee drinker, so I can't judge how Tim's coffee tastes compared with others. The one thing I didn't like seeing go was the wedges, bow-ties and long johns. Really loved those whipped cream pastries. The doughnut selection also isn't as good as it once was. I'd rather go to the Donut Mill on Gasoline Alley in Red Deer. I think they have 10 filled doughnuts on top of the various types of traditional ones. Plus it's all baked fresh in the building. I really wonder why other doughnut outlets never tried to fill the void. Sir Donut went out of business and Robin's is no longer in the province. I've never tried Dunkin' or Krispy Kreme so I don't know if they'd a viable competition.

  29. #29

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    The make or break of a good cup of coffee is not source, and quality bean, its actually delivery.

    Just as in a brewery you can have the finest ingredients but if you don't run a clean, meticulous operation everything you make is going to taste like crap. Quality control rules the day. Which is what happens on site.

    The problem with Tim Hortons coffee, and pretty much any restaurant coffee isn't source. Any reasonably fresh coffee will potentially make a decent brew.

    The thing ALWAYS is whether or not all brewing equipment has been properly cleaned with soap and warm water, scrubbed, thoroughly rinsed out and dried before every brew. Because otherwise the bitter old taste comes right out into every cup. Its the main nemesis of a quality brew. Places that just brew one flask after another without proper cleaning ruin every cup of coffee served.

    So few places pay such attention to detail.

    Due to this the best cup of coffee is always found at home if you make it with appropriate attention to detail. Once you've had that perfect cup of coffee you aren't wanting to settle for less. That's not being a coffee snob, a good cup of coffee is cheaply had, its just appreciating a properly brewed cup of coffee served with the required bit of elbow grease.

    If you're a lazy sod you won't make a good cup of coffee period. Go buy a Keurig, you'll never know the difference in that case anyway..
    Last edited by Replacement; 26-08-2014 at 08:42 PM.
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  30. #30

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    No talk of the food here, just the coffee? Again, I think coffee saved Tim Hortons from a mediocre future. Are they now much different than Starbucks, Second Cup, etc. in most customer's minds?

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    Coffee is expensive, we've all known that for many years. And whoever was able to convince the masses in the last 5 years or so to spend even more using the single shot method is a genius.

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    Tim's coffee? Well, it's hot and wet.

    Do they use chicory in their coffee? I don't believe there's any harm in that, but many years ago there was a brand called Camp, a liquid concentrate for instant coffee, that contained chicory. More for economic reasons than anything, but it did impart a distinctive taste.

    On single shot coffees, I love my Nespresso. Out and about, I'm a Second Cup cappuccino fan.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    No talk of the food here, just the coffee? Again, I think coffee saved Tim Hortons from a mediocre future. Are they now much different than Starbucks, Second Cup, etc. in most customer's minds?
    Well the food is about the only reason I ever go there. Tim Horton's is one of our regular dinner stops on the way to and from the mountains so we're not subsisting on a diet of burgers and fries.

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  34. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Turnbull View Post
    About the only time I ever to go a Tim Horton's is when travelling. The food is alright for fast food and the coffee isn't completely terrible.

    I heard an interesting analysis of the coffee vs what's happening in the US with fast food coffee. It suggested the primary reason Tim's coffee was popular in Canada was almost no one drinks it black, they fill it with lots of cream and sugar essentially overwhelming the coffee itself so they don't have to use a better grade. Probably why I don't really like their coffee as I drink coffee black.
    Absolutely right on that observation!! I enjoy better coffees but it's all about the cream and sugar!

  35. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    I'm not as big a coffee drinker as I used to be. Maybe that's because I'm not sitting all day in an office anymore. I was once told that some restaurants put salt in their coffee grounds as they buy cheaper brands and salt makes it less bitter. I do not use salt in cooking and I do not put it on my food. As far as salt goes I can taste it as my taste buds are not used to it. Now sometimes if I do have black coffee I have been able to taste salt. I usually find this in mom and pop type restaurants not in the big chains. It's also a good thing to know if you have high blood pressure. There could be hidden salt in your coffee.
    After 8 years in the foodservice industry (sales), I have never, not once, ever heard of anyone ever putting salt in their coffee. If that was a thing, I'd know about it.
    This is a real thing, just as use water to boil potatoes for dinner lol. It's an ol timers trick, I don't believe you would ever see this in a chain, maybe am and pa restaurants. Lots of neat little things our elders did that is lost on younger generations

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    It really chafes me how Tim's has this grip on Canadian symbology. All this ******** political pandering to "average" Canadian-ness by glad handing at a Tim Hortons. It's cheap populism at its lowest ebb.

    From what I've read, despite all the cheerleading about BK moving head offices to Canada because of our low corporate tax regime, it has more to do with this authentic-Canada-is-Tim Hortons crap. Just imagine how different the conversation would be if Tim's was moving corporate head office to the US?

  37. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by ajs View Post
    Just imagine how different the conversation would be if Tim's was moving corporate head office to the US?
    That would be almost as tragic as letting a 9 year old fire an uzi

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    ^I'm pretty sure Tim's does not sponsor an army of child soldiers. However, with all the textiles we ship overseas there probably are gun-totin' pre-teens sporting cast-off Tim Horton's Camp Day t-shirts somewhere in the world.

  39. #39

    Default Some reactions from our southern neighbor

    Source: Twitter, @kellyoxford, Aug. 26, 2014
    Burger King announced they've bought Tim Hortons and are moving to Canada, if this is America's retaliation for Justin Bieber, well done.
    Source: Berkshire, Burger King Deal Draws Criticism Over Taxes
    Wall Street Journal, Aug. 26, 2014

    Burger King itself came under criticism from some lawmakers, including Sen. Dick Durbin (D., Ill.). "I'm disappointed in Burger King's decision to renounce their American citizenship," he said. "With every new corporate inversion, the tax burden increases on the rest of us to pay what these corporations don't."
    Source: Burger King-Tim Hortons Merger Raises Tax-Inversion Issue
    Wall Street Journal, Aug. 25, 2014

    "Burger King's decision to abandon the U.S. means consumers should turn to Wendy's Old Fashioned Hamburgers or White Castle sliders," Sen. Sherrod Brown (D., Ohio) said in a statement, referring to two companies founded in his state.
    And from the hypocrite-in-chief:

    Source: Warren Buffett defends Burger King’s tax deal
    Financial Times, Aug. 26, 2014

    “Tim Hortons earns more money than Burger King does,” he told the Financial Times. “I just don’t know how the Canadians would feel about Tim Hortons moving to Florida. The main thing here is to make the Canadians happy.”
    And then:

    Source: Berkshire to pay U.S. tax rate on Burger King deal
    Market Watch, Aug. 2014

    Warren Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway Inc. will pay the U.S. corporate tax rate on any income it receives from helping to finance Burger King's planned takeover of Canadian coffee-and-doughnuts chain Tim Hortons, according to a person familiar with the deal.

    Under the agreement, announced Tuesday morning, the merged company will be based in Canada. For Berkshire, which is providing $3 billion of the total $12.5 billion in financing for the deal, there won't be significant tax savings by having the company based in Canada, the person said.


    Mr. Buffett drove a hard bargain during negotiations, even though Berkshire is a passive equity investor and won't have an operational role.

    Berkshire has structured its portion of the deal so that it gets compensated for more than $50 million in higher taxes it expects to pay as a U.S. financier, the person familiar with the matter said. In other words, the combined Burger King-Tim Hortons will help subsidize Berkshire's higher tax bill.
    And:

    Berkshire, Burger King Deal Draws Criticism Over Taxes

    Wall Street Journal, Aug. 26, 2014

    In this case, Burger King investors can choose to receive either common stock in the combined company or units in a newly formed Ontario limited partnership, or a combination of the two. Choosing partnership units would let shareholders defer taxes on their paper gains until they sell the units or convert them into common stock, which they can do a year after any deal closes. A U.S. taxpayer who holds the units until death wouldn't owe any income tax on their appreciation, said Robert Willens, an independent tax analyst based in New York.

    3G Capital said in a statement announcing the deal Tuesday that it will elect to take partnership units exclusively, which would allow it to defer taxes on its paper gain on Burger King, whose shares have nearly doubled since its 2012 initial public offering.

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    A few months ago I was following Tim Horton's share prices with the intention of possibly buying a few. Never did buy any, but how I wish I had. After the announcement of the merger shares shot up by 8%.
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    More extreme than my personal opinion but it made me chuckle:

    Okay, Canada: It’s time for the hard truth about Tim Hortons


    Tim Hortons is not a defining national institution. Rather, it is a chain of thousands of doughnut shops, several of which have working toilets.

    Tim Hortons is not an indispensable part of the Canadian experience. Rather, it is a place that sells a breakfast sandwich that tastes like a dishcloth soaked in egg yolk and left out overnight on top of a radiator.

    Tim Hortons is not an anti-Starbucks choice that makes you a more relatable politician or a more authentic Canadian. Rather, it is a great place to buy a muffin if you’ve always wondered what it would be like to eat blueberry air.

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  42. #42

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    Too funny!!

  43. #43

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    ^^ funny that no one has mentioned how salty all the menu items have become. I used to like the chili but now it the size is way smaller and the saltiness of the chili is only matched IMHO by the saltiness of the gummy bun or the salty sandwiches.
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  44. #44

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    tim hortons is eyeing to expand in the usa, this buyout was a win for them.

    as for the coffee, never drank it, i tried the hot chocolate a few times, each time it was just brown water, absolutely no flavour. if i have to go there now i get the frozen lemonade. the donuts are awful but if i crave it the boston cream is not too bad at least its not too gummy and dry

  45. #45

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    ^Yeah, like your hot chocolate I've ate a whole box of chocolates before I decided I did not like them.
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  46. #46

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    lol i gave em a chance, there was one next to where i worked and at night they would pick up for us anyway i would order hc but one sip and i would throw it out hoping each time it would improve

    i gave up on the soup, way too salty and the veggies were like hard and rubbery

    i did have th two days ago a frozen lemonade and two cookies, i will give em credit the cookies aren't too bad

  47. #47

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    There iced coffee is o.k. so is their iced green tea. I like their Boston Creams and Bears claws (if that's what those feet type donuts are called). When it comes to soup I like home made.
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    Yeah, I kinda like the Ice Cap, that is until I suck the coffee out and leave the brown mush at the bottom of the cup.

    Oh, and don't even go near their flavoured lattes and such. Brutal.
    Nisi Dominus Frustra

  49. #49
    C2E Long Term Contributor
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    I neither like nor dislike Tims - I can take it or leave it. I'll go out for a Tims coffee maybe once every 1-2 weeks or when I'm on the road or if someone else is buying. Personally I would sooner go to a Starbucks, Second Cup, Blenz (in Vancouver), Caffe Sorrentino, Credo or Transcend for a caffeine hit. More likely it will be their soup, sammiches or donuts that will bring me inside a Tims, albeit only to scratch an occasional urge.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  50. #50

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    In absence of more desirable options, I tried the "Dark Roast" last week. A little smoother and more drinkable than their standard *** water.
    I think of art, at its most significant, as a Distant Early Warning system that can always be relied on to tell the old culture what is beginning to happen to it. —Marshall McLuhan

  51. #51

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    McDonalds is going to start selling their coffee in packages in the US, i wonder is they will start doing that in canada - seems many people really like the coffee from them

  52. #52

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    ^I was in Mc'D's on 153 Ave & Castledowns Road on Tuesday. I am sure they are already selling it there.
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

  53. #53

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    Video:
    Brits befuddled by who or what is Tim Hortons
    22 September 2016
    Famed for its coffee and doughnuts, Tim Hortons is an institution in Canada.
    Now the restaurant chain is expanding to the UK - but British consumers, it seems, have a lot to learn.
    On the streets of London, the terms "double double" and "Timbit" baffled most people the BBC spoke to. So we asked Canadians to explain the appeal.



    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-37412123


    Also interesting:

    The 'healthy' foods with more sugar than doughnuts

    1 September 2014

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-28957854
    Last edited by KC; 23-09-2016 at 07:00 AM.

  54. #54

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    Brits like their pastries and pies and cakes and a lot of them drink coffee. Timmies should do just fine. The Brits are getting overweight at the same speed as the rest of the Western World.
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

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