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Thread: Would you use Uber here?

  1. #201
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    I always found the taxi companies to be similar to telecom companies.

    Offer their customers the bare minimum for max prices and only adapt new technologies when competition forces you too. It's 2015 and you have an app. Congrats. Shoulda been done well before.
    be offended! figure out why later...

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    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211 View Post
    I've used uber lots but the story out of Toronto is a bit worrying. An uber driver got in an accident with a fare and uber isn't helping him with repairing his vehicle and his insurance told him to get lost. So much for the $5 million liability Insurance for all drivers.
    This is something I was pointing out in the first page of this thread and most posters disputed.

    The Uber Liability insurance is a red herring. Try to find instances in which Uber has paid all uncovered liability out of their fund.

    What you will find instead is ongoing case examples where Uber plays tactical "Technically we don't employ the driver so we are not responsible for any damages" Even in cases where uber drivers (not their drivers, lol) engaged in criminal acts.
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    ^Predictable.

    Intact would insure anybody.

    I wouldn't wish having to deal with them on my worst enemy.

    The combination of Uber and Intact. I won't even comment further.
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  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211 View Post
    I've used uber lots but the story out of Toronto is a bit worrying. An uber driver got in an accident with a fare and uber isn't helping him with repairing his vehicle and his insurance told him to get lost. So much for the $5 million liability Insurance for all drivers.
    This is something I was pointing out in the first page of this thread and most posters disputed.

    The Uber Liability insurance is a red herring. Try to find instances in which Uber has paid all uncovered liability out of their fund.

    What you will find instead is ongoing case examples where Uber plays tactical "Technically we don't employ the driver so we are not responsible for any damages" Even in cases where uber drivers (not their drivers, lol) engaged in criminal acts.
    liability insurance is not collision coverage. if you have liability insurance on your own car and no collision insurance, the insurance company isn't going to repair damage to the vehicle. why would the driver think anything different would apply here?

    as for whether i would use uber or not, i know lots of travellers that comfortably use uber all over the world. but they don't rely on uber or the driver to provide liability coverage for them. instead they rely on their own travel insurance. it's no different in you're a passenger in an under-insured uber car or an under-insured taxi.

    when not travelling, if you are insured by your own home or personal or health care insurance provider, then you really don't care about the driver's/uber's insurance either. the insurance companies may fight it out after the fact but that's no different than what exists with most insurance claims, automotive or otherwise - you deal with your insurer and they deal with the other party. if you don't have travel insurance when elsewhere or if you don't have home or personal or healthcare insurance, then you probably have greater exposure in many areas already than being injured as a result of an uber accident.

    maybe the city should make it illegal to own or rent in the city of edmonton without fire and liability insurance? it would probably save a lot of people a lot more than insisting that uber drivers carry liability insurance.
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  7. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    [liability insurance is not collision coverage. if you have liability insurance on your own car and no collision insurance, the insurance company isn't going to repair damage to the vehicle. why would the driver think anything different would apply here?
    For one thing because Uber has gone to extensive disingenuous lengths to imply that passengers and drivers are covered. Except at such times as they're dragged into court with their classic defense that the driver is not an employee and that thereby they are not responsible.


    as for whether i would use uber or not, i know lots of travellers that comfortably use uber all over the world. but they don't rely on uber or the driver to provide liability coverage for them. instead they rely on their own travel insurance. it's no different in you're a passenger in an under-insured uber car or an under-insured taxi.
    lots of people travel without medical insurance, without advised inoculations or don't even have any, or sufficient home insurance.. To cite this isn't an argument either way except for that many people will be careless and think that nothing bad will happen to them.


    when not travelling, if you are insured by your own home or personal or health care insurance provider, then you really don't care about the driver's/uber's insurance either. the insurance companies may fight it out after the fact but that's no different than what exists with most insurance claims, automotive or otherwise - you deal with your insurer and they deal with the other party. if you don't have travel insurance when elsewhere or if you don't have home or personal or healthcare insurance, then you probably have greater exposure in many areas already than being injured as a result of an uber accident.
    These are arguing points with little basis. Several courts, jurisdictions have come to the conclusion that Uber does not have sufficient insurance, that drivers and passengers can be exposed to potential liability, and in the case of Edmonton for instance have required that uber drivers have insurance that is comparable to Taxi cab drivers.

    maybe the city should make it illegal to own or rent in the city of edmonton without fire and liability insurance? it would probably save a lot of people a lot more than insisting that uber drivers carry liability insurance.
    While I'm astounded that people sleep well at night without home insurance I wouldn't mind if sufficient insurance was a prerequisite for renting/owning. Have the rules changed? Formerly to have a mortgage you had to have home insurance. Afairc.
    In anycase home insurance isn't a solid comparable. liability and damages paid to parties other than the homeowner, and instances involving 3rd party liability would I think be far less common.
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  8. #208
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    ^

    we're probably saying much the same thing. instead of expecting everyone else involved in everything to look after our interests and not theirs (fat chance) the onus really should be on us to look after our own interests (including insurance irrespective of the circumstances and choices we make).
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  9. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    ^

    we're probably saying much the same thing. instead of expecting everyone else involved in everything to look after our interests and not theirs (fat chance) the onus really should be on us to look after our own interests (including insurance irrespective of the circumstances and choices we make).
    I can get behind this, but when a global national with limitless advertising pull is duping drivers into entirely dropping their guard and using falsehood to entice that I would look at it as a form of situational entrapment. Philosophically I think it can/should be a role of benevolent Government to safeguard jurisdictions from such misleading practice. I'm naïve that way.

    Drivers get caught without sufficient coverage, and without an insurer that will cover at all because the driver did not inform their insurer, and they do not have the correct coverage. But again with Uber stating publicly, countless times that it is not imperative for drivers to have their own special coverage.

    The situational aspect is that many Uber drivers go into this either for some spare coin in times where they could really use the extra revenue, or are doing it as an interesting and what they figure is a harmless and entertaining sideline.
    in the first instance the person views it very informally and often impulsively and kind of just start out driving. It takes not much time to become an Uber driver in most jurisdictions. It really feeds impulse and no due diligence.
    The latter driver is probably economically set, but is looking more at the social aspect of it and perhaps not fully considering any liabilities, hazards, ramifications.

    Really I'm scared on behalf of either targeted uber driver.
    Last edited by Replacement; 09-09-2015 at 08:16 PM.
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    Replacement, it sounds as though there will be a company insuring Uber drivers here, so shouldn't that be a thing that makes you happy?
    They're going to park their car over there. You're going to park your car over here. Get it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gord Lacey View Post
    Replacement, it sounds as though there will be a company insuring Uber drivers here, so shouldn't that be a thing that makes you happy?
    Unfortunately, and predictably its Intact insurance. Rather than go into detailed accounts on that here, which is not in the best interests of this site, I'll leave it to people to research this insurance firm themselves.

    I will leave readers with this, I have lots more, and a lot of it directly relevant that I won't post here;

    https://insureye.com/Reviews/Auto-In...tact-Insurance
    Last edited by Replacement; 09-09-2015 at 10:28 PM.
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    ^ Looks like typical slimy insurance company behavior, dragging their heels on claims and looking for any excuse to raise premiums. Are there any that don't pull these scams?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Titanium48 View Post
    ^ Looks like typical slimy insurance company behavior, dragging their heels on claims and looking for any excuse to raise premiums. Are there any that don't pull these scams?
    The worst right now would be Intact and Desjardins, slamdunk, in no particular order and they are rated the worst in Canada on nearly every insurance rating survey.

    People go with firms like this to save some money. Ironic.

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  14. #214

    Default Sorry, taxis. Uber’s popularity is about more than cheaper fares

    I have since become a steadfast Uber loyalist, not only because it is cheaper than taking conventional cabs (Uber X, that is, which essentially regular folks driving their own vehicles), but more importantly, because of the accountability factor. Each time I hire an Uber X vehicle, I learn my driver’s name, the car’s license plate and the individual’s star rating before the car pulls up to the curb. I can track the route using GPS on my phone (meaning I can tell if the driver is taking a roundabout path to drive up the fare) and can also send my route to a friend so he or she can follow along with the vehicle as it moves. And, most critically, I can rate my experience on a scale of one to five, knowing that my rating matters: if a Uber X driver’s cumulative rating falls below a certain level, the company will yank him or her off the road.
    http://news.nationalpost.com/full-co...-cheaper-fares

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    Edmonton taxis threaten to strike, Uber threatens to leave town over new bylaw
    http://www.metronews.ca/news/edmonto...g-delayed.html

    If the taxi drivers go on strike then I'll just take Uber!
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    I don't use taxis much, but now that we have Uber here I have used it over a cab when I needed to get home without my car. I was recently in California and we used Uber twice there and it saved us a lot of money over a taxi.

    I don't have any negative taxi stories (besides feeling like the driver is taking the long way home), but my partner,who has to take a taxi sometimes when his flights come in late from the airport, seems to have only negative experiences. example: getting (what he feels is) overcharged to stop at a store on the way home (an extra $5 for a 1.5 minute stop), or once him and a co worker shared a cab to the west end and it was about 60$, and they were going minutes within each other's destinations and the driver charged them both $60. I don't know if that's fair, but it doesn't sound like it.

  17. #217

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    Fun story: I was crossing 104 St at Jasper Ave on the walk signal during Nuit Blanche, and a taxi came screeching to a halt in the middle of the crosswalk, nearly running us over. Window down, on the phone, terrified passenger in the back.

    I yelled at him "this is why people choose Uber, a--hole". He started beating his steering wheel in frustration with his free hand. I've yet to have an Uber driver on their phone, or drive with rage. If they did, they'd get a 1 star review and be let go. With taxis, I can't remember the last time they were NOT on the phone, and not driving like a jacka--.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  18. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    Fun story: I was crossing 104 St at Jasper Ave on the walk signal during Nuit Blanche, and a taxi came screeching to a halt in the middle of the crosswalk, nearly running us over. Window down, on the phone, terrified passenger in the back.

    I yelled at him "this is why people choose Uber, a--hole". He started beating his steering wheel in frustration with his free hand. I've yet to have an Uber driver on their phone, or drive with rage. If they did, they'd get a 1 star review and be let go. With taxis, I can't remember the last time they were NOT on the phone, and not driving like a jacka--.
    Funny I can't remember the last time I've driven anywhere where the worst jackasses on the road weren't other drivers of private vehicles. On the weekend two vehicles going around 150K from 23ave vicinity heading out to the highway. Flew by like rockets in different lanes drag racing.

    Nor, as a pedestrian can I ever remember a time when the driver being inattentive, and not looking the right way as they are proceeding into a crosswalk wasn't a private vehicle.

    Seems to me that a driver that drives professionally for a living and that has that as a livelihood, and often with families dependent on it, would take more due care than somebody doing it on a lark. I'll take my chances with professional qualified cab drivers.
    Last edited by Replacement; 28-09-2015 at 12:39 PM.
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  19. #219

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    I have no idea what magical taxis you find, but that has never been my experience. They are neither professional and definitely no more qualified than anyone else with a license. They don't go to some prestigious cabbie school where they learn advanced driving techniques.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

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    Most are doctors, engineers, other professions. Qualified professional cabdrivers, maybe not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    I have no idea what magical taxis you find, but that has never been my experience. They are neither professional and definitely no more qualified than anyone else with a license. They don't go to some prestigious cabbie school where they learn advanced driving techniques.
    I've rarely had a bad experience with a cab. I am also very amiable with them, understand they drive long hours and given my knowledge of driving in this City I am even sympathetic to cab drivers, long haulers, bus drivers, etc that have to drive professionally in this city with some of the worst private drivers I've seen anywhere.

    We can argue about this all day. I mentioned accountability earlier. A cab driver has a lot more invested. They have the plate licence which usually came at an exorbitant fee and they have it as their livelihood which as I mentioned many of their families are dependent on. An Uber driver has no such commitment financially or otherwise and is often case driving as a sideline lark most times doing it to get some extra cash.

    Heres another thing regarding your anecdote. Cabs are delineated as such with clear names, numbers, that can easily be reported. If I nearly get run over by a Uber driver I don't even know it is a Uber driver and if I don't catch the number on their plate I wouldn't know who to report it to. At least as a pedestrian, with Cabs you know there are multiple options to report it to and that they are clearly delineated to allow this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    Most are doctors, engineers, other professions. Qualified professional cabdrivers, maybe not.
    Any citation for that. Even by Uber statements many of their drivers are driving for some added income and on a part time basis.

    I remain unconvinced that when I hail Uber I'm getting a Lawyer who can argue a case in court in case theres an accident..

    I'll be quite clear as well in questioning the foresight of someone that takes on driver for hire in this city when they have other, and safer options of employ readily available. The safety risks alone are not worth entering into this. Anybody that is an other occupation professional that is doing this is being naïve at best.

    Cabbies largely do this due to limited other options being readily available to them.
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  23. #223

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    The Uber requirement of keeping my credit card # on file is a show-stopper. I require the option of entering in the # each time I use their service. I don't know enough about their data security to trust it.

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    Surprised this didn't get any mention here last week;

    http://calgaryherald.com/storyline/c...this-afternoon


    Bev Esslingers remarks are contemptible;

    “Today I honestly have to admit, as a mother, it felt like a toddler having a tantrum,” Coun. Bev Esslinger said.
    Oh really Bev, you had to make that dismissive remark about people protesting about their very livelihood and their passion in doing that in what was entirely a peaceful protest? I hope your ward recognizes your flippant derisive comments about others employment in the next civic election.

    With this kind of arrogant contempt shown no wonder the cabbies are protesting at City Hall.

    Good on em. Seemed like Council was held accountable for once. lol that they ran away out of chambers and hid in another room. Speaking of toddlers..

    What were they scared of? The dissension that they themselves caused?


    What kind of statement is it as well given the ethnic make of up of some, or even the majority of the protesters that City Council would only proceed with the meeting after much more security and armed police officers were on site. What message does that send? That council felt physically threatened? By what? All reports were the protest was peaceful. I think many deeper questions should be asked about Councils curious response of leaving this council session altogether.

    That in itself should be on the front page for a week with a thorough explanation of what the rationale was for the exaggerated show of force of security and police by a council too witless to stand and face the music.
    Last edited by Replacement; 28-09-2015 at 02:10 PM.
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  25. #225

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    At the end of the day our arguments are moot. People are making their choice. Competition is doing what it's supposed to do, and one of the competitors is losing.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

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    I wonder if Uber and the taxi system will go the same way as the buses (Greyhound and Red Arrow). I think, the worst thing about the taxi system in Edmonton is that there's no collaboration among the taxi drivers. They don't want the city to sell more licenses, they'll fight a taxi app on the phone to keep a higher overhead with taxi dispatching. Drivers compete against each other for business, and they won't take any suggestions to improve efficiency.
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  27. #227

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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Cat View Post
    I wonder if Uber and the taxi system will go the same way as the buses (Greyhound and Red Arrow). I think, the worst thing about the taxi system in Edmonton is that there's no collaboration among the taxi drivers. They don't want the city to sell more licenses, they'll fight a taxi app on the phone to keep a higher overhead with taxi dispatching. Drivers compete against each other for business, and they won't take any suggestions to improve efficiency.
    Found this in the c2e archives...

    Quote Originally Posted by DebraW View Post
    Violence seen ending in taxi war

    Susan Ruttan, edmontonjournal.com
    Published: Thursday, April 26, 2007


    An outbreak of vigilante-style violence by Edmonton taxi drivers is settling down, the chairman of the Edmonton Taxi Cab Commission says.

    Clint Mellors said today that the commission has promised the cabbies it will vigorously enforce Edmonton’s bylaw prohibiting out-of-town taxis from picking up fares in the city. That promise has in recent weeks helped curb aggressive acts, he said.

    A report going to city council’s community services committee next week says there have been incidents of “verbal abuse, shaking or spitting on the vehicle, sometimes while a passenger was inside.”

    These aggressive acts, all initiated by the licensed Edmonton taxi drivers, have escalated since March 15.”

    Local cabbies are upset because the Edmonton Regional Airports Authority has given an exclusive contract to a new company, Airport Taxi Service, to pick up passengers at the Edmonton International Airport. The five-year contract was previously held by Yellow, an Edmonton-based taxi broker.

    Airport Taxi Service cabbies aren’t licensed in Edmonton, so aren’t supposed to pick up fares in the city. Some local cabbies, however, suspect they’re doing so.

    --30--
    Source:
    YEG - taxi fleet

    http://www.connect2edmonton.ca/forum...wreply&p=34369

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  30. #230
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    ^ good to see our police resources being out to good use...

    Tried uber last night and honestly taxi companies can gtfo.
    be offended! figure out why later...

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    Would anyone happen to know how many uber drivers there are in Edmonton, roughly? I'm wondering what percentage of the drivers are represented in that sting.
    Last edited by overoceans; 12-12-2015 at 01:56 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by richardW View Post
    ^ good to see our police resources being out to good use...

    Tried uber last night and honestly taxi companies can gtfo.
    It was bylaw involved in the sting, not the police.
    They're going to park their car over there. You're going to park your car over here. Get it?

  33. #233

  34. #234

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gord Lacey View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by richardW View Post
    ^ good to see our police resources being out to good use...

    Tried uber last night and honestly taxi companies can gtfo.
    It was bylaw involved in the sting, not the police.
    Its stupid, and wasting court, and city staff, resources. Per the Toronto mayor:

    Toronto Mayor John Tory says that a new ride-sharing service from Uber is a "marketplace response" to gaps in the TTC's service, and says it would be impractical for the city to shut down the company's operations.
    http://www.ctvnews.ca/business/tory-...nsit-1.2699235

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    Uber Users Are Complaining About Pricey New Year’s Eve Rides

    http://time.com/4165410/uber-new-yea...e-surge-rides/

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/stephaniemcn...er#.gfDzb1oDgj

    That's some ridiculous price hikes
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  36. #236
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    From the tweets...

    Uber surge pricing is like seeing the person you've been dating and that you're really into making out with someone else on the dance floor.

    Umm, no. That would imply that Uber is somehow being dishonest or hypocritical in their practices. But anyone who's been paying attention knows that price-surging is an intrinsic part of their business model.

    If you're someone who's been defending Uber as a free-market alternative to an over-regulated taxi industry, you can't then turn around and complain when the company exercises its free-market right to charge you whatever they feel like charging you. If you wanted a fixed rate, you should have stuck with taxis.

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    ^
    Exactly.

    File this one under another "careful what you wish for" category.

    Anybody even remotely familiar enough to be able to use Uber should know of its surge pricing. There was an even an incident in the states (afairc) that was well publicized where Uber was using surge pricing in transporting people during a disaster.

    Indeed it seems those that are most in favor of Uber are those least familiar with any of the cons or perils of using it.

    lol that in the links one person is justifying a surge pricing of over a thousand dollars for a 20 min trip basically stating if you don't like paying that walk.

    Well I would definitely walk..
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  38. #238

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    Buzzfeed had the best quote on there from someone: "Shout out to the people who forgot about regular cabs and still paid the 8.9x surge price."

    Why are people that dumb to pay such a ridiculous price when they could still pay a cab.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211 View Post
    Buzzfeed had the best quote on there from someone: "Shout out to the people who forgot about regular cabs and still paid the 8.9x surge price."

    Why are people that dumb to pay such a ridiculous price when they could still pay a cab.
    If you read further into some of the stories a lot of misrepresentation is going on.

    For one thing Uber, onsite quotes "surge pricing" and describes it without giving any information in terms of range, how much can be expected to pay, how many times more, etc. They're basically saying only that surge pricing exists. That is disingenuous at best. They provide no real indication whatsoever of how grossly exorbitant surge pricing has been, and can be.

    Next, when customers "signed up" for a ride during "surge pricing" many of them are reporting that their trip was then cancelled and reassigned and with higher 'surge pricing" than what they actually consented to. So that a person that consented to say surge pricing of 2X may have ended up paying 10X. That is a fraudulent transaction and I hope that there are further class action suits.

    Theres also claims of erroneous quoting of the surge pricing not matching up with the invoices and its well known that the drivers do not know what the pricing will actually be and are unhelpful in clarifying pricing.

    Further some customers are being dinged with surge pricing at the same times and approximate locations as riders not having to pay such inordinate surge pricing. Somebody explain that.

    Finally, the 9.9 times fare is actually also erroneous. Small quibble, but the actual fare is regular fare PLUS the 9.9, then with a small added "Safe ride tax" on top of that lol. So that a standard 20buck fare is around 225bucks.

    Anyway, tons of people woke up to a much higher fare than they could reasonably expect.
    Last edited by Replacement; 02-01-2016 at 12:13 PM.
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    And we've all been there trying to get a cab on New Year's Eve as it can sometimes take hours, if you get one at all. Never again.

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    Replacement - to accept surge pricing you need to type it in to accept it. Those whining about using surge pricing and waking up to a higher bill then expected could have used the fare estimation feature before accepting the surge. They could have also "called a cab."

    Some of your issues sound like drunk upset morons waking up to something they readily accepted while drunk. Ubers not to blame for that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitlope View Post
    And we've all been there trying to get a cab on New Year's Eve as it can sometimes take hours, if you get one at all. Never again.
    Options

    1) Hire a sober friend. Neighbor, Student. Pay them 50bucks for their trouble or a tank of gas. Seems reasonable.

    2)Arrange with a friend, relative neighbor, Student. (Return favor, for instance neighbor and I have ongoing drive each other to and from the airport plan going on. Works like a charm and we're all dedicated to doing it. The added benefit being enhanced relations with neighbors and getting to know them and sharing in some exciting vacation times.)

    3)Walk, cycle, take bus. What is wrong with with people these days? This was the only option any young person would consider back in the day. Was nothing unusual for us to walk 5-10miles home from a party even in winter. Or to take a bus. (During the bus transit strike of 1981 I walked 10 roundtrip miles to and from U of A. every day. No big thing and a very enjoyable path travelled)

    Are people really too lazy to get their own way home these days?

    The amount of times I took a cab as a young adult or student is never. Would never waste my money on what was considered excess in frugal times.

    Didn't go to these swanky 150buck a seat events either. These were house parties we were going to back in the day. Cost nothing, BYOB,
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    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211 View Post
    Replacement - to accept surge pricing you need to type it in to accept it. Those whining about using surge pricing and waking up to a higher bill then expected could have used the fare estimation feature before accepting the surge. They could have also "called a cab."

    Some of your issues sound like drunk upset morons waking up to something they readily accepted while drunk. Ubers not to blame for that.
    Again read the stories of people this actually happened to. People are claiming they accepted a ride under a quoted surge price, Then that ride was cancelled, replaced with another ride and that a new agreement for a higher surge price did not occur, and yet they were billed for a higher surge multiple than that which they agreed to. That is a fraudulent transaction. Imagine if you paid something using a credit card in a store. The bill is 50bucks. You note however you've been charged 500 for the same transaction. First thing you would do is phone Credit Card to note of fraudulent activity and to stop payment.

    As per myself, no, I would never use Uber and as indicated in the thread I'm the least likely person to ever use uber.
    Last edited by Replacement; 02-01-2016 at 12:29 PM.
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    All these options you mention to get home and your crying about an alleged story by a few tweets? Yeah uber certainly sounds like the one to blame.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211 View Post
    All these options you mention to get home and your crying about an alleged story by a few tweets? Yeah uber certainly sounds like the one to blame.
    Not sure what your deal is. I'm not crying firsthand. I'm not crying at all.

    I am just furthering the news, further to public interest, in what a despicable firm this is and of their despicable practices.

    I have no horse in this race other than a fervent dislike for such global national exploitive firms.

    I would never hire Uber for any reason.
    Last edited by Replacement; 02-01-2016 at 12:43 PM.
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    Your not whining/crying?

    You yourself just said there are so many alternative ways to get home yet you are blaming uber for people being unprepared or borderline insane for accepting a surge price that's too high.

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    If people were indeed agreeing to one rate and ending up with a higher rate then that is a problem. Also drivers should not be able to cancel rides to drive the rate up.

    In principle the surge pricing isn't a bad idea as it will bring more drivers out and focus them in the right areas. One thing I'd change is having the rates set by Uber itself. If you want real market rates let riders bid on cars directly based on what they're willing to pay and don't allow or penalize drivers who cancel accepted rides.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211 View Post
    Your not whining/crying?

    You yourself just said there are so many alternative ways to get home yet you are blaming uber for people being unprepared or borderline insane for accepting a surge price that's too high.
    No, blaming Uber for charging people more than that which they agreed to in surge pricing. Again check the stories.

    That said I do have somewhat limited sympathy for uber users but in general have some modicum of sympathy for people getting ripped off nonetheless. I'm a Ralph Nader type. lol

    Anyway, done with this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211 View Post
    Your not whining/crying?

    You yourself just said there are so many alternative ways to get home yet you are blaming uber for people being unprepared or borderline insane for accepting a surge price that's too high.
    How is that whining/crying? So every criticism of a corporation is "whining/crying"? But then I rarely take taxis either. Buses / feet usually get me where I need to go.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Turnbull View Post
    If people were indeed agreeing to one rate and ending up with a higher rate then that is a problem. Also drivers should not be able to cancel rides to drive the rate up.

    In principle the surge pricing isn't a bad idea as it will bring more drivers out and focus them in the right areas. One thing I'd change is having the rates set by Uber itself. If you want real market rates let riders bid on cars directly based on what they're willing to pay and don't allow or penalize drivers who cancel accepted rides.
    Indeed Paul for a firm that so fervently says that the ride is a user/driver transaction and that drivers are their own independent contractors and not employees Uber sure seems to be pretty heavy handed with this stuff.

    The ride bid you suggest seems much more consistent application to the user/driver transaction that Uber purports this to be.

    Next, what kind of weird algorithm is Uber transposing to result in 9.9X pricing when likely far less than that would suffice to arrange supply.

    Finally, something very odd is at work here. Drivers claim to not know how much the surge pricing is and yet are recruited to pick up extra fares on the basis of said surge pricing. Somebody is lying. How can surge pricing be an acute incentive without the drivers knowing what the incentive is?
    Last edited by Replacement; 02-01-2016 at 01:21 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitlope View Post
    And we've all been there trying to get a cab on New Year's Eve as it can sometimes take hours, if you get one at all. Never again.
    Agreed, its a nightmare. When I was younger, used to walk into the main routes into downtown and wave down cabs before they got into downtown proper. Was the only way to get one. At least now, you have the option, if you want, to pay more and get an Uber. And, those higher prices encourage more uber drivers on the roads, which helps relive the load. Nobody is forcing anyone to use uber, if you are stupid enough (or in most cases I think, drunk enough) to not realize you are going to pay a big premium on NYE, I have very little sympathy. There's always the option to plan out your night in advance, or perhaps even book a room downtown.

    As to the supposedly guaranteed price thing, if the price changed after you got in your uber and it started driving, I'd agree, that's an issue. But up until the time it starts driving, its just an invitation to treat, IMO, and can be changed by either party (the consumer leaving, the driver taking a higher ride somewhere else due to surge pricing, or whatever). I think people are just ****** they had to pay more than they expected, but that's supply and demand, the market in action. If they had been a little less drunk, they probably would have been a bit more careful.
    Last edited by moahunter; 02-01-2016 at 01:13 PM.

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    Anyway I'm done with this... *posts again right after* Still blames uber for issues that may or may not be facts. And holds no uber users accountable for not taking any other modes of transportation readily available....

    Yes cabs suck and yes cabs on New Years are hard to get but as others have mentioned it's probably best to plan ahead for this.

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    And this is why I only take a cab out on New Years about every 10 - 15 years. As said, there are many other options.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Turnbull View Post
    If people were indeed agreeing to one rate and ending up with a higher rate then that is a problem. Also drivers should not be able to cancel rides to drive the rate up.

    In principle the surge pricing isn't a bad idea as it will bring more drivers out and focus them in the right areas. One thing I'd change is having the rates set by Uber itself. If you want real market rates let riders bid on cars directly based on what they're willing to pay and don't allow or penalize drivers who cancel accepted rides.
    Indeed Paul for a firm that so fervently says that the ride is a user/driver transaction and that drivers are their own independent contractors and not employees Uber sure seems to be pretty heavy handed with this stuff.

    The ride bid you suggest seems much more consistent application to the user/driver transaction that Uber purports this to be.

    Next, what kind of weird algorithm is Uber transposing to result in 9.9X pricing when likely far less than that would suffice to arrange supply.

    Finally, something very odd is at work here. Drivers claim to not know how much the surge pricing is and yet are recruited to pick up extra fares on the basis of said surge pricing. Somebody is lying. How can surge pricing be an acute incentive without the drivers knowing what the incentive is?
    Drivers know where surge zones are, and what the surge is. It's displayed on their driver app. It's designed this way to draw extra cars to areas when demand is high.

    Users know what the surge rate is and have to specifically type it in to acknowledge they accepted it.

    All parties know exactly what's going on.
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    Man charged $1,100 for Uber ride from southeast Edmonton to St. Albert on NYE
    http://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/man-charg...-nye-1.2721386
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Turnbull View Post
    If people were indeed agreeing to one rate and ending up with a higher rate then that is a problem. Also drivers should not be able to cancel rides to drive the rate up.

    In principle the surge pricing isn't a bad idea as it will bring more drivers out and focus them in the right areas. One thing I'd change is having the rates set by Uber itself. If you want real market rates let riders bid on cars directly based on what they're willing to pay and don't allow or penalize drivers who cancel accepted rides.
    Indeed Paul for a firm that so fervently says that the ride is a user/driver transaction and that drivers are their own independent contractors and not employees Uber sure seems to be pretty heavy handed with this stuff.

    The ride bid you suggest seems much more consistent application to the user/driver transaction that Uber purports this to be.

    Next, what kind of weird algorithm is Uber transposing to result in 9.9X pricing when likely far less than that would suffice to arrange supply.

    Finally, something very odd is at work here. Drivers claim to not know how much the surge pricing is and yet are recruited to pick up extra fares on the basis of said surge pricing. Somebody is lying. How can surge pricing be an acute incentive without the drivers knowing what the incentive is?
    Drivers know where surge zones are, and what the surge is. It's displayed on their driver app. It's designed this way to draw extra cars to areas when demand is high.

    Users know what the surge rate is and have to specifically type it in to acknowledge they accepted it.

    All parties know exactly what's going on.
    You would know the app better than I would. Perhaps some of the customers are lying about a different rate being quoted on the app.

    In anycase this has gone beyond viral and anybody that thinks this is how a business should be run is out of their minds. Uber has had more bad publicity over the last 24hrs one has to wonder if its worth the exorbitant gouging.

    But as I mentioned before I'm curious about Ubers Algorithm wherein a ride starts jumping up to something as severe as 9.9 times regular fare. Quite clearly that degree of inducement would not be required to get drivers on the road. Even going from drivers reports they seem to know only that there is surge pricing, but not how much the surge multiple is. Several drivers are now on record stating they do not know how much the fare will be and in several instances the drivers misquoted the expected fare.

    But at the end of the day 1000buck 1hr cab rides are unreasonable. I don't know how anybody can really argue that such exorbitant prices are justified.

    I will say as well a number of people are talking out of their asses here. I can start quoting the same posters that would complain day and night if an airline fare was considered unreasonable on a high demand day. Or that complain when utilities are too high, or gas prices. You yourself are on record on this board complaining about 5 buck evening downtown parkade fees.

    Why is it considered open territory for Uber to engage in unfettered free market pricing when consumers expect any other businesses to tow a reasonable line? I think its a fair question and that buyer beware double standards are being invoked here.

    Uber is a deplorable company that is doing this. Disingenuous to really argue otherwise.
    Last edited by Replacement; 02-01-2016 at 07:28 PM.
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    I have a hard time believing that anyone on would agree to an $1,100 charge if they were told that is what it was going to cost.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211 View Post
    Anyway I'm done with this... *posts again right after* Still blames uber for issues that may or may not be facts. And holds no uber users accountable for not taking any other modes of transportation readily available....

    Yes cabs suck and yes cabs on New Years are hard to get but as others have mentioned it's probably best to plan ahead for this.
    ha. I was done discussing this with yourself as we were getting nowhere in our exchange. Cheers in anycase and Happy New Years to you and all reading.

    My condolences to any riders that did dish out although I agree consumers should just refuse to use Uber at this point.

    But imagine if every business operated in this manner and if every consumer in every transaction had to be so alert to buyer beware.
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    My wife recently purchased an airline ticket from Edmonton to HoChiMinh City, Vietnam return, a distance equal to a trip around the earth, via Vancouver and Beijing for $1078.
    Last edited by Drumbones; 02-01-2016 at 08:17 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Man charged $1,100 for Uber ride from southeast Edmonton to St. Albert on NYE
    http://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/man-charg...-nye-1.2721386
    if i read that article right, it also wasn't just one person's fare... that fare safely delivered at least 5 people to at least 3 different destinations on new year's eve. expensive? sure. more expensive than the other 364 days of the year? Sure. But no worse than the new year's eve premium markup on a salad, a plate of pasta and a glass of prosecco at your typical neighborhood pizza palace. don't like the markups? eat at home. or take the bus. the prices were both posted first before the meal was eaten or the ride taken.
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    I just reviewed Uber's instructional video on surge pricing and I'm not sure how this guy could have missed what the charge was going to be. He'd taken the route before and knew what the regular fare was. The interface displays the multiplier prominently:



    And for anything 2x and up forcing you to type it in:



    Uber appears to make it very clear what is going on.
    Last edited by Paul Turnbull; 02-01-2016 at 08:19 PM.

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    ^^Great example. I know my New Years dinner was $300 and it was a total disaster. Uber does have multiple ways to make sure a user is aware of the surge price and a way to estimate their trip cost.

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    I don't get how the rider wouldn't know how much was on the Uber meter.
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    When partying you may not pay attention because you are not expecting to be RIPPED OFF

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Turnbull View Post
    I just reviewed Uber's instructional video on surge pricing and I'm not sure how this guy could have missed what the charge was going to be. He'd taken the route before and knew what the regular fare was. The interface displays the multiplier prominently:



    And for anything 2x and up forcing you to type it in:



    Uber appears to make it very clear what is going on.
    Keeping in mind that several users are simultaneously claiming that their signed off multiple was LOWER than the rate they were ultimately charged. For instance people being OK with paying 2.9 but charged 7.9.

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/stephaniemcn...ver#.kkakaoMWP


    One has to ask how several people are simultaneously voicing and raising, and reporting concerns to UBER if there were no irregularities on what the surge multiple was.

    Also, its widely reported that drivers were cancelling fares in expectation of surge rate increases. An unscrupulous practice in itself and unfair to the consumer who only has 5mins to cancel their end of the transaction without penalty.
    Last edited by Replacement; 02-01-2016 at 08:38 PM.
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    Widley reported means a few tweets? LOL. How many uber rides happened with no issues? So a select few drunks somehow got ripped off? More like they woke up and realized their stupidity. It's not like ubers services are new... What is are the drunk users using the service without paying attention.

    I like how far fetched people go in trying to blame the app for changing the price on them... Yeah sounds likely.

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    if Uber is fully regulated, none would have happened to this guy who were charged with huge amount.
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    Simple question.

    Does anybody REALLY think that 9.9X surge pricing is either justified or necessary in order to attract more drivers?

    I've questioned the algorithm that Uber is using multiple times.

    Even 2X would induce drivers. So why 9.9X?

    lol, last question would be what is the limit to this Uber surge nonsense. 100X?
    Last edited by Replacement; 02-01-2016 at 08:59 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jagators63 View Post
    if Uber is fully regulated, none would have happened to this guy who were charged with huge amount.
    If uber was regulated fares would be standardized and regulated. Meaning there wouldn't be 10X fares..
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    You've already pointed out 4-5 alternative modes of transportation people could take so what does it matter? In a free market you can charge whatever you want as long as people are willing to pay. Clearly with uber there are many people willing to pay the surge pricing. They aren't forced to. As kcantor pointed out its no different then the over priced New Years meals we all decide to buy regardless of price.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jagators63 View Post
    if Uber is fully regulated, none would have happened to this guy who were charged with huge amount.
    If uber was regulated fares would be standardized and regulated. Meaning there wouldn't be 10X fares..
    probably true... on the other hand mr. lindsay and his friends could well still be waiting for that new year's eve regulated date taxi to show up...
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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jagators63 View Post
    if Uber is fully regulated, none would have happened to this guy who were charged with huge amount.
    If uber was regulated fares would be standardized and regulated. Meaning there wouldn't be 10X fares..
    probably true... on the other hand mr. lindsay and his friends could well still be waiting for that new year's eve regulated date taxi to show up...
    How many Uber drivers in Edmonton? How many of them were working on New Year's Eve? As Uber gets more popular, the demand for their ride service will increase. That's why on the busiest night of the year for the taxi industry, the Uber surge pricing increased 8.9X.

    So yes, Uber came through and gave these people a ride home on NYE. But it's probably because a ton of intelligent folks looked at the 8.9X extortion fee that night and said screw Uber.

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    If I was invited to a wedding reception on NYE, I will definitely not take my chances on a taxi or Uber to take me home. Booking a room in a nearby hotel or hiring a limo bus would certainly be a lot cheaper than $1200.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    But imagine if every business operated in this manner and if every consumer in every transaction had to be so alert to buyer beware.
    Well, not to change subjects, but Alberta's deregulated electricity market comes to mind.

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    Quote Originally Posted by North Guy66 View Post
    If I was invited to a wedding reception on NYE, I will definitely not take my chances on a taxi or Uber to take me home. Booking a room in a nearby hotel or hiring a limo bus would certainly be a lot cheaper than $1200.
    Or a person could decide not to drink.

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    I was in Amsterdam for new Years. Getting home by regulated cab was a disaster. lies about fares. Flat out refusal to pick up. Off meter pricing etc.

    I assume it was similar most places. But where is the outrage about that? Maybe I should have tweeted it cause tweets now are acceptable to be used as news sources...

    Seems like a lot of echo chamber internet faux outrage to me.

    People are numb now to cab driver ******** so they no longer complain but every Uber hiccup is magnified and blown up to a crazy degree (probably by the taxi lobby as well as incoherent dinosaurs that hate change.)
    be offended! figure out why later...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitlope View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    But imagine if every business operated in this manner and if every consumer in every transaction had to be so alert to buyer beware.
    Well, not to change subjects, but Alberta's deregulated electricity market comes to mind.
    Well, consumers have protection from the extremes of that volatile market. Which industry does not.

    In anycase a good example of what I am saying. Anybody I've ever encountered HATES deregulated electricity. I haven't met one consumer in favor of it.

    Yet here we have Uber and people are bending over backwards defending their actions.
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    Quote Originally Posted by richardW View Post
    I was in Amsterdam for new Years. Getting home by regulated cab was a disaster. lies about fares. Flat out refusal to pick up. Off meter pricing etc.

    I assume it was similar most places. But where is the outrage about that? Maybe I should have tweeted it cause tweets now are acceptable to be used as news sources...

    Seems like a lot of echo chamber internet faux outrage to me.

    People are numb now to cab driver ******** so they no longer complain but every Uber hiccup is magnified and blown up to a crazy degree (probably by the taxi lobby as well as incoherent dinosaurs that hate change.)
    Well, lets boil it down then. The 9.9 surge charge is an agreed statement of fact of a pricing that had occurred around the world with Uber drastically increasing (gouging) the prices inordinately to get drivers out on the roads. No tweets, no internet drama is required to establish that. Uber has confirmed the "blown up to a crazy degree" pricing. That's the facts.

    Well heres the interesting thing. Human incentive onset is not established at 9.9 times regular pay. The amount of increase in pay necessary to get people working more hours, longer hours, holiday hours etc is easily established by labor standards and what industry generally pays people to provide over and above services. i.e. OT rates are established at anywhere between 1.5X pay to double pay. I'm not aware of any firm that pays more than 2X regular pay.

    So I'll ask again of anybody defending this weird algorithm how 9.9X is justified to get drivers out on the streets.

    It simply isn't. Nobody can argue that this massive surge pricing is required.
    Last edited by Replacement; 03-01-2016 at 10:10 AM.
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  79. #279
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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by richardW View Post
    I was in Amsterdam for new Years. Getting home by regulated cab was a disaster. lies about fares. Flat out refusal to pick up. Off meter pricing etc.

    I assume it was similar most places. But where is the outrage about that? Maybe I should have tweeted it cause tweets now are acceptable to be used as news sources...

    Seems like a lot of echo chamber internet faux outrage to me.

    People are numb now to cab driver ******** so they no longer complain but every Uber hiccup is magnified and blown up to a crazy degree (probably by the taxi lobby as well as incoherent dinosaurs that hate change.)
    Well, lets boil it down then. The 9.9 surge charge is an agreed statement of fact of a pricing that had occurred around the world with Uber drastically increasing (gouging) the prices inordinately to get drivers out on the roads. No tweets, no internet drama is required to establish that. Uber has confirmed the "blown up to a crazy degree" pricing. That's the facts.

    Well heres the interesting thing. Human incentive onset is not established at 9.9 times regular pay. The amount of increase in pay necessary to get people working more hours, longer hours, holiday hours etc is easily established by labor standards and what industry generally pays people to provide over and above services. i.e. OT rates are established at anywhere between 1.5X pay to double pay. I'm not aware of any firm that pays more than 2X regular pay.

    So I'll ask again of anybody defending this weird algorithm how 9.9X is justified to get drivers out on the streets.

    It simple isn't. Nobody can argue that this massive surge pricing is required.
    nobody can argue that this massive surge pricing is required?

    absolutely correct - mr. lindsay was certainly not required to get into that uber car at that fare.

    which begs another question.

    if mr. lindsay had walked in to his neighborhood pizza palace and enjoyed a plate of pasta, a salad and a glass of prosecco with his friends on new year's eve and got a bill for $120 per person - the price that was posted on the door on the way in and on that evening's menu, how much sympathy would you give him if he said afterwards "i should only have to pay $14 for that meal - that's all that it cost yesterday and all that it will cost tomorrow!".

    in both cases, he is not required to pay the asking surge pricing. and in both cases if enough people choose not to pay it, the pricing will come down. and if enough people choose to compete for business at those levels the price will also come down.

    is the surge pricing required? that depends only on how much you want that ride or that pasta that particular evening. and mr. lindsay presumably had more than one choice here. he could have chosen not to use uber at that price. and presumably he could have asked to crash at his friend's house in mill woods - the first stop that uber car made - at a much a much lower fare. in any case, the final choice was his.
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    ^ I should have stated nobody can successfully argue that this degree of surge pricing is required.

    heheh

    jk aside I don't know that market forces are really at work here or that this is a case where the market will determine what people will or won't pay.

    My take is that this one got peoples attention, who will then perhaps be more prudent now and not assume such things as "Uber always has competitive pricing"

    I do think that this has hurt Uber overall.


    Its interesting as well that this particular decision is occurring around optional behavior, for instance going out drinking and requiring transportation on NYE.

    I don't recall anybody supporting Ubers surge pricing when they have used that during emergency situations where people were desperately getting away from a tragedy.

    AS per the algorithm Uber uses I've done some more research. Even Uber itself is questioning whether its multiplier is working properly.

    http://time.com/3633469/uber-surge-pricing/

    Demand surges have also been monitored by Uber’s human staffers, who have on rare occasions used their discretion to lower prices. After the great Uber Fare Hike of New Year’s Eve in 2012, for instance, Kalanick described the scene at Uber Mission Control. “To our dismay,” he wrote, “the pricing multiplier kept going up.”

    “At some point the east coast cities started breaking 6x multipliers—we accepted defeat at that point—the unbending demand breaking our will. We would bring cities down to 3x, only to see conversion go up, supply go down, cars get saturated, and “zeroes” popping everywhere.” Zeroes are Uber’s term for riders who open the app and see no available cars in their area.
    Now Uber is perhaps erroneously concluding that the massive markup is not working as incentive and thus "zeroes" of drivers available. However what that probably indicates is that more time is needed to get drivers out. For instance that human response takes some time. Or that Uber simply has a finite amount of drivers in given areas where demand sometimes exceeds the supply. The question that should reasonably be asked is whether the multipliers escalate too quickly or when they should. Not whether 9.9X is effective getting people to go to work. Pretty much anybody would go to work anytime for 9.9X pay. But you have to have enough of those workers to go out to work.

    Next uber has put a limiter on its emergency situation surge multiplier where it will only allow 3-4 times surge due to past instances where surge pricing has resulted in such damage to Ubers reputation.

    Indeed Uber is putting out fires even where they don't exist. Due to the surge pricing fiasco in a Sydney Australia emergency Uber was vilified when surge prices occurred (briefly) in Paris during the attacks there. Uber had to supercede its surge multiplier and disable it and impose arbitrary surge limits as damage control.

    It seems, that even for Uber, that Surge pricing really isn't working as well as hoped. I think some continued tinkering is in order and uber likely agrees. its interesting that in several situations Uber has actually countered what its surge price multiplier is doing. Again I really question that algorithm and how well it is devised or working.
    Last edited by Replacement; 03-01-2016 at 11:04 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by richardW View Post

    I assume it was similar most places. But where is the outrage about that? Maybe I should have tweeted it cause tweets now are acceptable to be used as news sources...

    Seems like a lot of echo chamber internet faux outrage to me.

    People are numb now to cab driver ******** so they no longer complain but every Uber hiccup is magnified and blown up to a crazy degree (probably by the taxi lobby as well as incoherent dinosaurs that hate change.)
    Hah this made me laugh. Tweets from online users are reliable enough for replacement to accept as a news source. How can you ignore such factual information? It's not like the majority of tweets aren't from anonymous accounts or used by special interest groups ever. Or how about the child welfare worker who tweeted accusations that were false and had to apologize to city police.

    Yet here we have one guy crying about things that may or may not be true.

    The only thing crazier then an 8.9 surge pricing is the ***** who accepts it instead of utilizing one of the many other options for transportation available.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by richardW View Post

    I assume it was similar most places. But where is the outrage about that? Maybe I should have tweeted it cause tweets now are acceptable to be used as news sources...

    Seems like a lot of echo chamber internet faux outrage to me.

    People are numb now to cab driver ******** so they no longer complain but every Uber hiccup is magnified and blown up to a crazy degree (probably by the taxi lobby as well as incoherent dinosaurs that hate change.)
    Hah this made me laugh. Tweets from online users are reliable enough for replacement to accept as a news source. How can you ignore such factual information? It's not like the majority of tweets aren't from anonymous accounts or used by special interest groups ever. Or how about the child welfare worker who tweeted accusations that were false and had to apologize to city police.

    Yet here we have one guy crying about things that may or may not be true.

    The only thing crazier then an 8.9 surge pricing is the ***** who accepts it instead of utilizing one of the many other options for transportation available.
    Actually all over the world there have been complaints about Ubers rampant surge pricing and especially when Uber uses it during states of emergency which Uber has.

    I already rebutted Richards post. Try to keep up.
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    At this point the stories of the price changing after the customer had accepted a lower price are rumours. I have yet to see any reporting that actually followed up on any of them to confirm what happened. Even the guy in Edmonton who was charged $1100 didn't claim the rate changed on him. I'm also wondering how many complaints like this there actually are. Given the millions of rides Uber must have been providing that night there don't seem to be that many complaints.

    As for the rates themselves, I'm not a fan of regulating the rates in this industry. It was somewhat necessary when there was no way for the customer to know what the rate was until they got in the car but with the advent of smartphones you can see what you're going to pay before you request the car. I could see regulation to ensure to the rider gets the rate they accepted but let them charge what they want after that. I think it would also be a good idea if there was cancellation penalty for either the rider or the driver if they cancel a ride after accepting it.

    And for the record, I don't mind the deregulated utilities markets.

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    Uber have already reached 1 billionth ride last christmas 2015

    http://mobilesyrup.com/2015/12/31/ub...his-christmas/
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Turnbull View Post
    At this point the stories of the price changing after the customer had accepted a lower price are rumours. I have yet to see any reporting that actually followed up on any of them to confirm what happened. Even the guy in Edmonton who was charged $1100 didn't claim the rate changed on him. I'm also wondering how many complaints like this there actually are. Given the millions of rides Uber must have been providing that night there don't seem to be that many complaints.

    As for the rates themselves, I'm not a fan of regulating the rates in this industry. It was somewhat necessary when there was no way for the customer to know what the rate was until they got in the car but with the advent of smartphones you can see what you're going to pay before you request the car. I could see regulation to ensure to the rider gets the rate they accepted but let them charge what they want after that. I think it would also be a good idea if there was cancellation penalty for either the rider or the driver if they cancel a ride after accepting it.

    And for the record, I don't mind the deregulated utilities markets.
    Just for record as per Ubers own data 16% of US riders were charged surge pricing of more than 3X the normal rate on NYE. 40% experienced surge pricing.

    I could accept the surge pricing if it was at all in line with what is required to recruit workers. Even 2-3 X would be more than sufficient in doing this. Its quite clear that if zero drivers are available at 9.9X than its simply a case of momentary demand exceeding supply. It seems even Uber does not understand that the surge multiplier is multiplying too frequently over a short period of time. As I've read the algorithm just keeps multiplying as long as there are driver shortages taking into account no other information.

    A more reasonable system would alter ETA somewhat instead of such drastic price increase.

    As per deregulated electricity you would be opposed to instances where the rates were increased due to false calculating of supply or of collusion to rig that supply.

    In this Uber instance it is alleged that drivers cancelled fares knowing that this would result in greater surge multipliers. This would be indication that even Ubers drivers are figuring out how to manipulate ubers multipliers. I think that is plausible that some do so. Investigation should be able to uncover whether a lot of transactions on NYE were in fact driver side cancelled. Although I doubt Uber would release such data.

    ftr there is a cancellation penalty for a user cancelling beyond 5mins. There are no such penalties for a driver and thus contributing to possibilities of undue cancellation on that end.
    Last edited by Replacement; 03-01-2016 at 11:54 AM.
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    What Uber charges and how they decide what to charge doesn't concern me as long as the customer was clearly informed of what the charge was going to be. As I stated before, if drivers were cancelling fares to get higher multipliers then that is an issue. Again, as I stated before, cancellation penalties for the drivers could dissuade the practice.

    Ultimately, though, it's a market question. Uber has to build their business practices to attract rather than repel customers. There are many possible alternatives to Uber or taxis. Services like Pogo, for example, can provide a cost effective alternative.

    What is not a market question, and where I think companies like Uber need to be regulated, is who their drivers are, what they're driving, and basic insurance issues. This should the same as pretty much any other driving business.

    Your electricity example isn't describing a lack of price regulation, it's describing fraud. I have no problems with reasonable limits on any business practices however the extreme regulation of utility prices in the past is no longer reasonable, if it ever was. But this probably a discussion for another thread.

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    Replacement- you said you will never use uber so no one cares what you would accept as a reasonable surge price. You aren't a customer they have to worry about pleasing so why do you bother. As for what's acceptable surge pricing uber will have to decide if the complaints on New Years are worth the higher prices.

    As for edmontons overall New Years experience it didn't seem like there were many complaints of surge pricing. Even the uber drivers on Reddit from Edmonton said most of their fares were between 1 and 2.9 times with many not having surge pricing at all. We don't see many complaining about that... Nor were there many tweets after New Years from locals upset at uber.

    But I guess some will cherry pick a few users experiences from around the world and accept it as total truth.

    I wonder what we would find when looking at every cab companies complaints from across the world.

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    If anyone even bothered to read the guy's original Reddit post and everything thereafter, he's not even faulting Uber. He knows he requested an UberXL (way more expensive that UberX), and he knows he accepted the surge pricing.

    It's the media making a frenzy over it. This is also by far the highest recorded Uber fare, so it's not like this happens very often.

    If you're not comfortable using the tech, stick with a regular cab that doesn't show up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    If anyone even bothered to read the guy's original Reddit post and everything thereafter, he's not even faulting Uber. He knows he requested an UberXL (way more expensive that UberX), and he knows he accepted the surge pricing.

    It's the media making a frenzy over it. This is also by far the highest recorded Uber fare, so it's not like this happens very often.

    If you're not comfortable using the tech, stick with a regular cab that doesn't show up.
    Didn't even know there was a reddit post from on it. It's not mentioned in the CTV article or anywhere on this thread. Do you have a link?

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    I can't understand how this rider wouldn't understand the math. If he's that stupid...
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  91. #291

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Turnbull View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    If anyone even bothered to read the guy's original Reddit post and everything thereafter, he's not even faulting Uber. He knows he requested an UberXL (way more expensive that UberX), and he knows he accepted the surge pricing.

    It's the media making a frenzy over it. This is also by far the highest recorded Uber fare, so it's not like this happens very often.

    If you're not comfortable using the tech, stick with a regular cab that doesn't show up.
    Didn't even know there was a reddit post from on it. It's not mentioned in the CTV article or anywhere on this thread. Do you have a link?
    This is his original post. Doesn't sound like he's that bitter. It went viral and the news is making a way bigger deal out of it than he is.
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    I wouldn't even say it went viral... He posted to Reddit and ctv picked it up. Even the Ctv news video wasn't a big deal. More of a warning for people was all... And I agree he's not bitter or flying off the handle like people would suspect. I thought I caught one thing that was different in his interview then his post on Reddit But whatever...

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    Thanks Chmilz.

    Looking through the thread I get the impression that the estimate was far lower than the actual charge combined with the multiplier he accepted leading a to far higher bill than expected. He also says Uber refunded him $550 which be inline with the original base estimate being around $70 rather than the $125 it came out to.

    I do like his suggestion of the app displaying the current bill during the ride. I'd add an alarm as you approach the estimate would be a good idea too.

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    I used Uber last night. It was great and cheaper than a cab, just like every other time I've used it.
    As for surge pricing, it's totally up to you. The "dumb" hasn't been regulated out, so you have to take responsibility for your decisions. That seems to be a big stretch for some...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Turnbull View Post
    Thanks Chmilz.

    Looking through the thread I get the impression that the estimate was far lower than the actual charge combined with the multiplier he accepted leading a to far higher bill than expected. He also says Uber refunded him $550 which be inline with the original base estimate being around $70 rather than the $125 it came out to.

    I do like his suggestion of the app displaying the current bill during the ride. I'd add an alarm as you approach the estimate would be a good idea too.
    Yeah, much ado about nothing. I see a lot of posts about Uber having great customer service - they're quick to correct errors, help people out. They're not perfect, but here's another case where they looked it up and sorted it out. There's no customer service with the established taxi cartels.
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    There's a limit to how many drivers there are, if they're all working at say 3x there won't be any more at 9.

    What the higher surge multiple is, is a demand suppressor. It's supposed to make the 95% of potential riders who can't justify a $500 ride go elsewhere, or wait. If it's too expensive for most riders but all drivers are still busy then it's the right price.

    That $1000 taxi bill wasn't just the price of being driven clear across town, it was the price of avoiding a long wait. Wouldn't be worth it to me, but it would be to some.

  97. #297

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    The fare is equal to half his tuition. He went public with the bill and Uber officials confirmed the company is refunding half the money.


    http://edmontonjournal.com/news/loca...e-of-huge-bill

    Well I guess he is going to get half his money back. Now, I am sure I read somewhere (can't find it now) that the Uber car that took this fare was a limo. Not that I am defending the price but I wonder if it was a limo?.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    The fare is equal to half his tuition. He went public with the bill and Uber officials confirmed the company is refunding half the money.


    http://edmontonjournal.com/news/loca...e-of-huge-bill

    Well I guess he is going to get half his money back. Now, I am sure I read somewhere (can't find it now) that the Uber car that took this fare was a limo. Not that I am defending the price but I wonder if it was a limo?.
    Probably uberxl. Gurantees a vehicle large enough for his amount of passengers.

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    ^and know doubt a higher fare structure then add the surge pricing, Ka-ching.
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    Just listened to an interview with the guy on CBC and I have to say the reporting on this has been atrocious. The full story, straight from him, is that he agreed to the surge pricing and to an estimate for a shorter trip. When he needed to extend the trip rather than finalize the existing trip the driver just changed the destination. There was no way for him, as the passenger, to change the trip in his app or to get a revised estimate so he no longer had information on the potential cost.

    I have to wonder if the reason the driver just extended the trip rather than finalizing and starting a new one was to maintain the surge pricing originally agreed to. At the new location it's unlikely the same multiplier applied.

    I do think it would be a good idea if Uber provided a way for the rider to get a revised estimate if the trip length changes and to get a current running total.

    Side note: The guy showing up on the media and the guy on the reddit thread are not the same guy. They are friends and were on the same trip.

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