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Thread: Would you use Uber here?

  1. #501

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by EveB View Post
    Replacement, you're starting to throw up strange vibes yourself.
    Its strange that I have decades of professional experience in this area?

    Whats strange is individuals summarily dismissing concepts they perhaps have less familiarity with and fields of work that they perhaps have less familiarity with.

    I think when any of us are summarily rebuked regarding matters we have a lot of knowledge on we can react unfavorably.

    I wouldn't profess to tell an engineer that I know more about engineering than they do but everybody responds differently.


    In anycase "strange" ? I'm different, no doubt, but I like to think we all are and its probably better that way.
    What you have is Uber Derangement Syndrome.
    Man, you are tying yourself into a pretzel trying to justify your stance on this issue. The guy happened to be a Uber driver and not an army colonel in the Canadian Forces. Whatever your an expert in it sure is not serial killers. Stick a fork in it, it's done.
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    The idea that one can make a comprehensive evaluation of someone based solely on a photograph is ridiculous. Particularly if the photograph in question is mug shot.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

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    Well this has been a funny read. Every reason I've read in this thread describing how Uber drivers could be dangerous could be applied to literally any job. You're not gonna find a killer by getting him to fill out some forms. Not every criminal has a criminal record and not everyone with a criminal record is a criminal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    What you have is Uber Derangement Syndrome.
    Man, you are tying yourself into a pretzel trying to justify your stance on this issue. The guy happened to be a Uber driver and not an army colonel in the Canadian Forces. Whatever your an expert in it sure is not serial killers. Stick a fork in it, it's done.
    Top_Dawg thanks you Professor Gemini as do our esteemed colleagues in the Academy of Medicine.

    Now that the floor is open to questions Top_Dawg would like to solicit your opinion on the genetic origin of this Uber Derangement Syndrome.

    Did Professor detect, at least in some part, a shared pathology with Ed Zachary disease ?

  5. #505

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    ^I am no expert on the subject of Ed Zachary Disease but the patient does present certain latent symptomatic circumstances where he thinks Uber drivers may be affected. Particular circumstances may occur where his symptom are activated to a degree of rendering him senseless. Unfortunately, further study is needed to evaluate the full extend of the malady. Hopefully further intervention may cure him of this but time would be of the utmost essence.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Turnbull View Post
    The idea that one can make a comprehensive evaluation of someone based solely on a photograph is ridiculous. Particularly if the photograph in question is mug shot.
    Comprehensive evaluation?

    Almost anybody walking down the street can detect a person with obvious mental health difficulty approaching them.

    Or at least I thought people were gifted with that basic perception.

    Nobody is making an indepth psych profile of this but he's obviously mentally disturbed and looks that way.

    if you disagree fine.

    If you want to play strawman arguments I'm not interested.

    Anyway, moving on. I don't know what youse are all capable of.
    Last edited by Replacement; 23-02-2016 at 01:31 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Dawg View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    What you have is Uber Derangement Syndrome.
    Man, you are tying yourself into a pretzel trying to justify your stance on this issue. The guy happened to be a Uber driver and not an army colonel in the Canadian Forces. Whatever your an expert in it sure is not serial killers. Stick a fork in it, it's done.
    Top_Dawg thanks you Professor Gemini as do our esteemed colleagues in the Academy of Medicine.

    Now that the floor is open to questions Top_Dawg would like to solicit your opinion on the genetic origin of this Uber Derangement Syndrome.

    Did Professor detect, at least in some part, a shared pathology with Ed Zachary disease ?
    I actually agree with Dr. Gemini's diagnosis.

    The symptoms are babbling on and on incessantly about this and not letting it go. Side effects are supporting the cab industry, associated symptoms include wondering why this City council was the only jurisdiction almost anywhere to pass this Uber legislation uber quick.
    Paranoic ideations involve feelings that this council is keen on getting into areas that are not at all required for them to act on and that theres perhaps more important things to focus on civically that don't get nearly enough attention. Not sure how I could possibly think that.

    But I could be completely off my rocker by now thinking these thoughts.

    Any cure for this?
    Last edited by Replacement; 23-02-2016 at 01:42 PM.
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  8. #508

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    Question to all those deep in this discussion

    Why is it Uber needed to hammer our Vehicle for hire bylaw "or they couldn't afford to operate" when I now hear of tap car and others on the radio that are coming on with
    - Driver Screening and security checks
    - Class 4 drivers license requirement
    - Full commercial insurance as earlier mandated
    - Mandatory max 3 year old 'white' vehicles.

    Seems from the radio reports these businesses are meeting the vast majority of the vehicle for hire requirements and will still only be available by app....

    So obviously a business model that pretty much follows the rules.

    So why was Uber so special to need so many eceptions to the rule that are/were in place?

    Or were they just banking on the "social media" outcry to force the rules to bend?

    A model that broke and flaunted breaking the rules.

    Inquiring minds want to know?

    T

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Turnbull View Post
    The idea that one can make a comprehensive evaluation of someone based solely on a photograph is ridiculous. Particularly if the photograph in question is mug shot.
    Comprehensive evaluation?

    Almost anybody walking down the street can detect a person with obvious mental health difficulty approaching them.

    Or at least I thought people were gifted with that basic perception.

    Nobody is making an indepth psych profile of this but he's obviously mentally disturbed and looks that way.

    if you disagree fine.

    If you want to play strawman arguments I'm not interested.

    Anyway, moving on. I don't know what youse are all capable of.
    I don't know, I think he looks pretty normal.


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    Yeah, a bit rough around the edges, but that's hardly uncommon among taxi drivers.

    I actually had a driver who looked a bit like him once. He bragged about using his cab to drive drug dealers around, and told me he carried a gun because he was a private investigator. I'm sure the P.I. stuff was all b.s., though I can easily believe the drug-dealing stories. But in any case, he was certainly not the kind of guy who would have become a cabbie if they were really using a thorough screening process that weeded out the eff-ups.

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    ^ the only reason anyone says he looks different is because of bias caused by previous knowledge of his actions before actually seeing him. If you showed his picture to anyone who didn't know what he did he would be described as an average looking middle aged man.

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    OK, OK Wagons circling, time for this;

    I was wweerreo

    I was whhhhrrrrrr,

    I was not exactly 100% right


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkqgDoo_eZE


    Anyway wonder what happened to the guy between the time of that picture shown by Paul and the picture the day he started driving for Uber, or the post pictures.
    Last edited by Replacement; 23-02-2016 at 02:21 PM.
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  13. #513

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    Now that Replacement is beaten into babbling in the corner how about we try this one again...

    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Hinderks View Post
    Question to all those deep in this discussion

    Why is it Uber needed to hammer our Vehicle for hire bylaw "or they couldn't afford to operate" when I now hear of tap car and others on the radio that are coming on with
    - Driver Screening and security checks
    - Class 4 drivers license requirement
    - Full commercial insurance as earlier mandated
    - Mandatory max 3 year old 'white' vehicles.

    Seems from the radio reports these businesses are meeting the vast majority of the vehicle for hire requirements and will still only be available by app....

    So obviously a business model that pretty much follows the rules.

    So why was Uber so special to need so many eceptions to the rule that are/were in place?

    Or were they just banking on the "social media" outcry to force the rules to bend?

    A model that broke and flaunted breaking the rules.

    Inquiring minds want to know?

    T

  14. #514

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    The CEO of Uber is a grade-A Ayn-Rand-loving Libertarian.

    http://www.businessinsider.com/how-u...yn-rand-2015-4
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

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    I wonder what THIS guy looked like?

    A Vancouver taxi driver has been found guilty of raping a passenger who was too drunk to fight back, and then stealing her debit card to withdraw almost $1,000 from her bank account.

    Yellow Cab driver Baljit Singh Aulakh was convicted of sexual assault in B.C. Supreme Court on June 29. He had already pled guilty to two counts of theft.
    And for some local colour, I wonder if anyone here remembers the name Robert James Fletcher...

    An alleged killer rapist accused of stabbing an Edmonton female cabby 17 times in a deadly 1981 “frenzy” attack was convicted of a similar crime three years later.

    Robert James Fletcher, 52, is currently being tried on charges of first-degree murder and rape stemming from the Dec. 3, 1981, sex-slaying of Gerdina Kruidbos, 33.
    He left again two weeks after Kruidbos’ killing and went to Ontario where he spent more time behind bars. Then he returned to Edmonton in 1984 and began working with his father at Skyline Cabs servicing taxis.
    Granted, he wasn't actually DRIVING a cab, but still, doesn't sound like that company was too choosy about who they had working for them.

    link

    link

    EDIT: Didn't see Replacmenet's last post. If he's ceding ground on the "looks" issue, I retract the looks-related comments from this post. I'll still let the overall post stand as evidence as to the dodgy character of some cab drivers.
    Last edited by overoceans; 23-02-2016 at 02:28 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    The CEO of Uber is a grade-A Ayn-Rand-loving Libertarian.

    http://www.businessinsider.com/how-u...yn-rand-2015-4
    I think most billionaire CEO's are probably pretty right-wing, at least on economic issues, even if they don't go in for the goofiness of Ayn Rand.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    OK, OK Wagons circling, time for this;

    I was wweerreo

    I was whhhhrrrrrr,

    I was not exactly 100% right


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkqgDoo_eZE


    Anyway wonder what happened to the guy between the time of that picture shown by Paul and the picture the day he started driving for Uber, or the post pictures.
    The way he looked in his initial Uber picture has more to do with the low angle and backlighting. Almost anybody can look scary when shot that way.

    Most mug shots often look bad because the person is often exhausted and arrests aren't always the gentlest of affairs.

    The simple fact of the matter is it can be difficult to spot people who might be capable of doing stuff like this. Until they report on his psych evaluation we won't even know if he has a mental illness, a one time case of losing it, or if it was something he planned out for some unknown reason.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

  18. #518

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    ^I'm thinking it is highly possible that this particular Uber driver picked up a passenger with the same mindset that Replacement has on Uber drivers and the Uber company in general. After listening to the rhetoric for 15 minutes it caused the driver to go ape chit and the poor guy lost it.
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

  19. #519

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Hinderks View Post
    Now that Replacement is beaten into babbling in the corner how about we try this one again...

    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Hinderks View Post
    Question to all those deep in this discussion

    Why is it Uber needed to hammer our Vehicle for hire bylaw "or they couldn't afford to operate" when I now hear of tap car and others on the radio that are coming on with
    - Driver Screening and security checks
    - Class 4 drivers license requirement
    - Full commercial insurance as earlier mandated
    - Mandatory max 3 year old 'white' vehicles.

    Seems from the radio reports these businesses are meeting the vast majority of the vehicle for hire requirements and will still only be available by app....

    So obviously a business model that pretty much follows the rules.

    So why was Uber so special to need so many eceptions to the rule that are/were in place?

    Or were they just banking on the "social media" outcry to force the rules to bend?

    A model that broke and flaunted breaking the rules.

    Inquiring minds want to know?

    T
    Guess silence gives me the answer that I thought.

    T

  20. #520

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    ^One of the big difference with Uber is they do not want to get into the the limited amount of licence plates issued to cab drivers. These plates go for insane amounts of money. No wonder regular drivers are crying the blues as most of them have to pay for these plates. They expect the public to cover the cost and because there was no competition they gave shoddy service for high fares. To bad so sad for them. Uber is progress by adding competition.
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

  21. #521

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    ^One of the big difference with Uber is they do not want to get into the the limited amount of licence plates issued to cab drivers.
    Tap Car isn't into the plates ether, but they are into the license, insurance etc. All the stuff Uber said they couldn't do.

    Tap Car is proving that the Vehicle for hire changes pushed were no where near as needed or indepth as Uber wanted and social media pushed to support.

    As I see it.

    T

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    Thomas, my guess is that Uber wants to have similar operating rules wherever it operates, and doesn't want to track tons of different rules in every city, while groups such as Tap Car are going to operate in Edmonton.

    Short version: Uber doesn't want to conform, and expects everyone else to bend over backwards. I like the idea of Uber, but the company appears to be a big bully that uses their users to do the bullying.
    They're going to park their car over there. You're going to park your car over here. Get it?

  23. #523

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gord Lacey View Post
    Thomas, my guess is that Uber wants to have similar operating rules wherever it operates, and doesn't want to track tons of different rules in every city, while groups such as Tap Car are going to operate in Edmonton.

    Short version: Uber doesn't want to conform, and expects everyone else to bend over backwards. I like the idea of Uber, but the company appears to be a big bully that uses their users to do the bullying.
    Agreed, but I am sure I heard on the radio driving home yesterday that Tap Car is opening in multiple cities...hope so and I hope they blow Uber to bits.

    T

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    Ah, my mistake. I thought it was something that was just opening here, a bit like Pogo being the car-share program for Edmonton.
    They're going to park their car over there. You're going to park your car over here. Get it?

  25. #525

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    If it appears that Uber is using it's customers to 'bully' it's way around we have to remember the old adage that the customer is always right. Uber exists because people like it and want to use it. They know they are onto a good thing and want to keep it. Regular cab companies have had the monopoly in too many places for far to long. The customers had to play it by their rules. Now that there is an alternative regular cab drivers don't like it. Their system is out of date. They should have never got themselves in the position of having to buy plates for thousands of dollars. Buying them off each other, loaning them and renting them out for sky high prices. Not a good business model if you ask me.
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    Without the removal for the requirement for 'taxi plates' nothing else would exist. Uber did that.

    If I google Tap Car, I get nothing. Nothing to compare, nothing at all that currently exits. So until something does, and it's successful and easy to use like Uber, then your argument feels like a moot point.

  27. #527

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    Quote Originally Posted by Channing View Post
    Without the removal for the requirement for 'taxi plates' nothing else would exist. Uber did that.

    If I google Tap Car, I get nothing. Nothing to compare, nothing at all that currently exits. So until something does, and it's successful and easy to use like Uber, then your argument feels like a moot point.
    Well based on available information from the radio

    Call centre hiring in progress in Edmonton
    Driver interviews underway
    Launch date in March/April

    Their statement is to work within the current system to as an app based service provider.

    Sounds like a pretty solid business model that has money behind it (which is obviously being spent) and only required an exception to Taxi plates, which compared to screening, security, licensing and insurance is rather minor.

    As my point was the business model and tactics of Uber...I don't consider it moot, but to each their own.

  28. #528

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    If it appears that Uber is using it's customers to 'bully' it's way around we have to remember the old adage that the customer is always right.
    No argument on being able to choose, but this is about regulation and safety

    Uber exists because people like it and want to use it. They know they are onto a good thing and want to keep it.
    I have no problem with Uber being there and operating, but doing it legally.

    Regular cab companies have had the monopoly in too many places for far to long.
    Monopoly created by the City to regulate cabs at behest of the Citizens, not the cab drivers.

    The customers had to play it by their rules. Now that there is an alternative regular cab drivers don't like it.
    Tough, legal/fair competition is the way it is.

    Their system is out of date. They should have never got themselves in the position of having to buy plates for thousands of dollars. Buying them off each other, loaning them and renting them out for sky high prices. Not a good business model if you ask me.
    They didn't create the system Gemini, the City did...on behalf of the citizens to regulate license, charge fees and tax for and maintain safety and security standards.

    Blame where blame is due.

    My point is if Tap Car can and does operate as a ride app with the correct insurance, licensing and is willing to comply with rest of the standards (except the taxi license) why can't Uber?

    Plus rather than confrontational they appear to be working cooperatively in meeting existing insurance and driver licensing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Hinderks View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Channing View Post
    Without the removal for the requirement for 'taxi plates' nothing else would exist. Uber did that.

    If I google Tap Car, I get nothing. Nothing to compare, nothing at all that currently exits. So until something does, and it's successful and easy to use like Uber, then your argument feels like a moot point.
    Well based on available information from the radio

    Call centre hiring in progress in Edmonton
    Driver interviews underway
    Launch date in March/April

    Their statement is to work within the current system to as an app based service provider.

    Sounds like a pretty solid business model that has money behind it (which is obviously being spent) and only required an exception to Taxi plates, which compared to screening, security, licensing and insurance is rather minor.

    As my point was the business model and tactics of Uber...I don't consider it moot, but to each their own.
    Your point was the business model and tactics of Uber vs the business model and tactics of a not yet operating company with a model that no one knows if it'll actually succeed let alone operated in other locations.

    That wouldn't exist, if not for Uber.

    So I'm not sure what we're comparing yet. No one can know.

    edit, To add you just said this above:
    My point is if Tap Car can and does operate as a ride app with the correct insurance, licensing and is willing to comply with rest of the standards (except the taxi license) why can't Uber?
    When and if it does do this, then we can debate it.

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    So sounds like Uber might be shut down until June or July as that's when e province is expecting to have the Intact Insurance policy approved by... Looks like I'm out of a job!

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    Uber shut down as of March 1st:

    http://edmontonjournal.com/storyline...ce-for-drivers

    Is it just me, or is it completely weird that they only now comply with the law? Why start now? Why not continue operating and pay the fines and legal costs extra in the short term? The only thing that has changed is which law Uber is breaking.

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    If we take Uber at word they are shutting down in interim.

    Why would anybody really take them at their word?

    lol as well that Uber was contesting the Class 4 licence requirement after agreeing to it.
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    They sent email's out to customers last night saying they were shutting down in Edmonton. They blamed the NDP, as is fashionable these days.

    Sounds like TappCar will be starting up by mid-March.

    I think Uber is making a mistake by not getting the available commercial insurance until the new plans come in July. They're leaving an opportunity for other companies like TappCar to jump in.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    If we take Uber at word they are shutting down in interim.

    Why would anybody really take them at their word?

    lol as well that Uber was contesting the Class 4 licence requirement after agreeing to it.
    They're shut down. You can't order a car to pick you up in the app.

    One interesting thing about Uber is that they don't pay taxes here. Read this article: https://www.biv.com/article/2015/12/...ing-local-eco/
    They're going to park their car over there. You're going to park your car over here. Get it?

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    ^^ Four months is probably not enough time for an upstart to build up a product that will be competitive with Uber when they come back, sadly. Cab companies have been trying for much longer than that and their apps are still awful. Really the only advantage a new startup has is if their drivers aren't also picking up flagged fares, which are a big part of the incentive problems with taxis (that is, if they see a flag on their way to a scheduled pickup it's probably more profitable for them to pick up the flag and ignore the scheduled).

    ^ This is a much deeper problem than Uber, and Uber may not even be the worst offender. When you buy something off Amazon.com, how much of the revenue of that do you suppose ends up in Canada? Facebook's ad revenue from you looking at your feed? Hell, buying something at Walmart?

    Given that Uber drivers are expected to pay income tax on their earnings, about 70% of every Uber transaction is eligible to be taxed in the jurisdiction it happens in. I'm not sure that most of your transactions with multinationals would fare any better.
    Last edited by graham; 01-03-2016 at 09:52 AM.
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    Amazon operates in Canada directly so if you buy from Amazon.ca the revenue does have to flow through Canada and is subject to tax here. Amazon runs warehouses in Canada and employs Canadians to run them. Purchases from Amazon.ca do include GST so they are taxed there.

    Walmart, as a brick and mortar chain, employs large numbers of people in Canada, has offices in Canada, and is taxed in Canada.

    From Uber all there would be is income tax on the driver, assuming they claim it. It would be next to impossible to audit so I wouldn't be surprised if many Uber drivers neglect to include the income.

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    ^ First of all, I said amazon.com. Many things are not available on amazon.ca.

    Obviously brick and mortar stores do pay taxes in Canada, but significant amounts of their revenue will flow out to their parent corporation. I'm not sure how much, but all multinationals play this sort of shell game, and I doubt anywhere near 70% of their revenue is taxed at income tax rates (much of it corporate tax, much of it in capital gains via bonuses to executives) in Canada. But I will withdraw the brick and mortar example from my post above happily, since people in Canada make a lot of money for foreign companies online that is never taxed here (except perhaps sales tax, sometimes). I'm fine with sticking to that. And it's something that's only going to become more significant over time, not less.

    I mean, it's nice to just guess that Uber drivers are all cheating on their taxes but it's not like this isn't a general problem with anyone who isn't on a payroll. If the CRA isn't catching them that's a different problem as well.
    Last edited by graham; 01-03-2016 at 10:28 AM.
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  38. #538

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gord Lacey View Post
    One interesting thing about Uber is that they don't pay taxes here. Read this article: https://www.biv.com/article/2015/12/...ing-local-eco/
    It's perfectly legal. Don't like it? Lobby the government to change the rules. I personally think it's unfair that there's no GST collected on digital streaming services and a lot of online ordering. Competitive advantages for some, while eroding funds for services and infrastructure. Ever see GST on your Netflix? Apps purchased on your smartphone? Nope? Because they don't collect it or pay it because they have no offices in Canada. Shomi and Crave charge tax because they do.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gord Lacey View Post
    One interesting thing about Uber is that they don't pay taxes here. Read this article: https://www.biv.com/article/2015/12/...ing-local-eco/
    It's perfectly legal. Don't like it? Lobby the government to change the rules. I personally think it's unfair that there's no GST collected on digital streaming services and a lot of online ordering. Competitive advantages for some, while eroding funds for services and infrastructure. Ever see GST on your Netflix? Apps purchased on your smartphone? Nope? Because they don't collect it or pay it because they have no offices in Canada. Shomi and Crave charge tax because they do.
    Um no, but thanks. Uber hasn't been operating legally and with authorization here at any point. Rather, they are a globalnational firm that attempts to ignore any jurisdictional legality, standards, protocol.

    PS none of us have to lobby the Govt. The provincial Govt, at least, and thankfully, are handling this matter appropriately and not trying to rush something through simply for the benefit of Uber.
    They are also not tabling other more pressing matters so that they could respond to this one issue for the benefit of Uber. In respect of the Provincial govt I would say that's managing priorities quite well. Whereas our rook city council has trouble recognizing what priorities actually are. If its social media, has an app, and is a trending thing than City Council figures its the most important matter going.
    Last edited by Replacement; 01-03-2016 at 01:44 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gord Lacey View Post
    One interesting thing about Uber is that they don't pay taxes here. Read this article: https://www.biv.com/article/2015/12/...ing-local-eco/
    It's perfectly legal. Don't like it? Lobby the government to change the rules. I personally think it's unfair that there's no GST collected on digital streaming services and a lot of online ordering. Competitive advantages for some, while eroding funds for services and infrastructure. Ever see GST on your Netflix? Apps purchased on your smartphone? Nope? Because they don't collect it or pay it because they have no offices in Canada. Shomi and Crave charge tax because they do.
    I don't have Netflix, so I can't comment on that, but I definitely get charged GST when I buy apps on my iPhone.

    If you order something from another country you don't pay tax on it, but you'll likely pay taxes when it hits the border (unless they miss it coming through).
    They're going to park their car over there. You're going to park your car over here. Get it?

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    ^ Much like the part of the economic activity of Uber that takes place physically in Canada is taxed by Canada. That's the driver. Who is supposed to file income taxes and GST. Note that this is also not dissimilar to how it works with taxes, who are at the very least not all employees (I believe in Edmonton none of them are). That interactions online are not taxed the same way is pretty normal at this point, and if you have a problem with it your issue is with the tax code.

    If that's not happening it's not Uber's fault, any more than it is any side of a contract if the other side doesn't follow the law.
    Last edited by graham; 01-03-2016 at 04:09 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gord Lacey View Post
    One interesting thing about Uber is that they don't pay taxes here. Read this article: https://www.biv.com/article/2015/12/...ing-local-eco/
    It's perfectly legal. Don't like it? Lobby the government to change the rules. I personally think it's unfair that there's no GST collected on digital streaming services and a lot of online ordering. Competitive advantages for some, while eroding funds for services and infrastructure. Ever see GST on your Netflix? Apps purchased on your smartphone? Nope? Because they don't collect it or pay it because they have no offices in Canada. Shomi and Crave charge tax because they do.
    Um no
    Um yes. We were talking about Uber's tax situation. It is legal. Or, at the very least, it's not illegal. Just like not paying taxes for an Android app. And not paying taxes on Netflix.

    Uber was not illegal before. The courts proved that. It was [I]unregulated[I]. That changed effective today. Which is why they are not operating. As now it would be illegal, at least in Edmonton.
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  43. #543

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gord Lacey View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gord Lacey View Post
    One interesting thing about Uber is that they don't pay taxes here. Read this article: https://www.biv.com/article/2015/12/...ing-local-eco/
    It's perfectly legal. Don't like it? Lobby the government to change the rules. I personally think it's unfair that there's no GST collected on digital streaming services and a lot of online ordering. Competitive advantages for some, while eroding funds for services and infrastructure. Ever see GST on your Netflix? Apps purchased on your smartphone? Nope? Because they don't collect it or pay it because they have no offices in Canada. Shomi and Crave charge tax because they do.
    I don't have Netflix, so I can't comment on that, but I definitely get charged GST when I buy apps on my iPhone.

    If you order something from another country you don't pay tax on it, but you'll likely pay taxes when it hits the border (unless they miss it coming through).
    Steam. Digital service. No tax.


    Google Play. Digital service. No tax.


    Uber. Claims it's a digital service. Therefore, no tax.


    I haven't paid for an app on the Apple platform, so I don't know what they do or do not charge, however I did some basic searching and it seems taxes are not collected by Apple for any iTunes/appstore purchases either. If you have proof otherwise, please share.
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    If the developer is Canadian then GST will be factored in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    I haven't paid for an app on the Apple platform, so I don't know what they do or do not charge, however I did some basic searching and it seems taxes are not collected by Apple for any iTunes/appstore purchases either. If you have proof otherwise, please share.
    Here you go. From 2010-2015, all showing that GST was collected.







    It's interesting that Uber would claim it's a digital service, because the service is very much a physical one.
    Last edited by Gord Lacey; 01-03-2016 at 08:21 PM.
    They're going to park their car over there. You're going to park your car over here. Get it?

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    ^ That's part of the problem with there being any distinction whatsoever. I may get chastised for suggesting more taxes, however I think if something is purchased in a jurisdiction (Alberta, and Canada), it should be subject the the appropriate taxes, regardless of what it is or how it's being delivered. I'm not cool with foreign digital companies selling us products without operating in Canada as a company, and contributing nothing.
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    ^^Uber's contention is the service they offer is connecting drivers with riders and facilitating payment. They would say their customers are the drivers.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

  48. #548

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    Judge calls Uber algorithm "genius", then green lights surge pricing lawsuit

    Uber really put itself in a bind here. Uber has been trying to defend its claim that its drivers are contractors, however this new lawsuit going ahead claims that if those drivers are in fact contractors as Uber claims, then by having the app dictate prices Uber is guilty of colluding / price fixing as contractors would need to be able to compete on price, which they can't because the app sets prices. Oops.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    Judge calls Uber algorithm "genius", then green lights surge pricing lawsuit

    Uber really put itself in a bind here. Uber has been trying to defend its claim that its drivers are contractors, however this new lawsuit going ahead claims that if those drivers are in fact contractors as Uber claims, then by having the app dictate prices Uber is guilty of colluding / price fixing as contractors would need to be able to compete on price, which they can't because the app sets prices. Oops.
    Reminds me of when Hooters in the US managed to get an exemption from the discrimination laws, by arguing that they were a "sexual entertainment company", and therefore should be allowed to hire only female servers.

    Someone then launched legal action to stop Hooters from admitting children, on the grounds that "sexual entertainment" establishments should be for adults only. Not sure how that case worked out.

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    ^^ IANAL, but... this seems like a super-sketchy legal argument to me. Are authors *colluding* with each other and publishers to set their book prices? At least Uber drivers can drive for other services (where they exist), authors are usually locked into their publisher by contract.
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    Not that sketchy, the judge is allowing it to proceed.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

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    Calgary cab fares are dropping after their city council changed their bylaws paving the way for uber there.... Interesting that we aren't seeing fare decreases here.

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    ^ Fares are still set by the city for ride-hailing, so they can't drop them except for pre-arranged pickups, and the cab companies have enough trouble getting cabbies to do their scheduled pickups when a fare pops up on the way to them as is. Though they did eliminate the van and late-night surcharge, I believe.
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    Just saw this on the interweb yesterday, ...

    https://www.dinheirovivo.pt/wp-conte...r-1060x594.jpg

  55. #555

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    When disruptive innovation doesn't stop disrupting.......hmmm.... Is this a stealth payday loan shop?

    Venture Beat, 6-Apr.-2016
    Uber pilots program in California and Michigan that advances drivers up to $1,000

    Uber has launched a new driver-focused program that provides cash advances when needed. The on-demand private car service has teamed up with financial service provider Clearbanc for a program called Advance Pay. This program allows drivers in California and Michigan to borrow up to $1,000 with no interest.....

    The money is provided through Clearbanc, and drivers have up to 15 weeks to repay the advance either directly to the provider or through their weekly Uber earnings. During the pilot program, all automatic payments will be capped so that drivers won’t ever have more than half of their earnings deducted automatically. There are no requirements for how often someone has to drive. After the 15 week period is up, delinquent borrowers can be assessed a fee of up to $50 by Clearbanc....
    Terms and Conditions, from Clearbanc (h/t @groditi)

    7- Fees:

    Advance Pay: If you have not repaid your cash advance within 15 weeks, you may repay your outstanding balance to Clearbanc or you may be assessed a $50 penalty. There are no other fees associated with Advance Pay.

    Instant Pay: The cost is $2 for each day that Clearbanc deposits funds into your account. You are only charged for days you work and you can cancel anytime

    Source

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    That is a very bad move.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  57. #557

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    Modern day slavery

  58. #558

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    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211 View Post
    Modern day slavery
    Bought a new car to drive for Uber but you don't make enough cash to cover the payments? Fret not!

    Introducing SlaveWage by Uber - the revolutionary new income model that loans you future income you'll never make to pay for the things you bought to get this job in the first place!
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    Looks like opinions on Uber have finally changed. But most of this is old news. Seems like people weren't following much of the US newsfronts where Uber had already revealed what a dick company they are in countless jurisdictions. I still can't believe people here were supporting Ubers business practice.

    Love the response of Houstons Mayor. Damn solid. Or Calgarys.

    Meanwhile our city council bent over backwards and I'll never understand why.
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  60. #560

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Looks like opinions on Uber have finally changed. But most of this is old news. Seems like people weren't following much of the US newsfronts where Uber had already revealed what a dick company they are in countless jurisdictions. I still can't believe people here were supporting Ubers business practice.

    Love the response of Houstons Mayor. Damn solid. Or Calgarys.

    Meanwhile our city council bent over backwards and I'll never understand why.
    My opinion on the service has not changed: I loved using it and I miss it dearly.

    My opinion of the company has not changed: They're largely unethical dbags.

    That said, are you familiar with the local Edmonton taxi organizations? They're even less ethical and more scummy, and they can't even fall back on good service as a saving grace.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Looks like opinions on Uber have finally changed. But most of this is old news. Seems like people weren't following much of the US newsfronts where Uber had already revealed what a dick company they are in countless jurisdictions. I still can't believe people here were supporting Ubers business practice.

    Love the response of Houstons Mayor. Damn solid. Or Calgarys.

    Meanwhile our city council bent over backwards and I'll never understand why.
    My opinion on the service has not changed: I loved using it and I miss it dearly.

    My opinion of the company has not changed: They're largely unethical dbags.

    That said, are you familiar with the local Edmonton taxi organizations? They're even less ethical and more scummy, and they can't even fall back on good service as a saving grace.
    meh. I can't make that distinction. No way I would support a Dbag corp like uber just out of convenience.
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  62. #562

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Looks like opinions on Uber have finally changed. But most of this is old news. Seems like people weren't following much of the US newsfronts where Uber had already revealed what a dick company they are in countless jurisdictions. I still can't believe people here were supporting Ubers business practice.

    Love the response of Houstons Mayor. Damn solid. Or Calgarys.

    Meanwhile our city council bent over backwards and I'll never understand why.
    My opinion on the service has not changed: I loved using it and I miss it dearly.

    My opinion of the company has not changed: They're largely unethical dbags.

    That said, are you familiar with the local Edmonton taxi organizations? They're even less ethical and more scummy, and they can't even fall back on good service as a saving grace.
    meh. I can't make that distinction. No way I would support a Dbag corp like uber just out of convenience.
    Every time you take a local cab company you're supporting the same type of dbags. The dbags that run them just happen to be less visible in the media.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Looks like opinions on Uber have finally changed. But most of this is old news. Seems like people weren't following much of the US newsfronts where Uber had already revealed what a dick company they are in countless jurisdictions. I still can't believe people here were supporting Ubers business practice.

    Love the response of Houstons Mayor. Damn solid. Or Calgarys.

    Meanwhile our city council bent over backwards and I'll never understand why.
    My opinion on the service has not changed: I loved using it and I miss it dearly.

    My opinion of the company has not changed: They're largely unethical dbags.

    That said, are you familiar with the local Edmonton taxi organizations? They're even less ethical and more scummy, and they can't even fall back on good service as a saving grace.
    meh. I can't make that distinction. No way I would support a Dbag corp like uber just out of convenience.
    "Conveniences" like not being stuck in the middle of the nowhere for 2 hours for a cab that you don't even really know is coming.

    Yeah. That's just a convenience. Nothing to see here, no problems with the status quo. Look at the douchebags over there so it never changes!
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  64. #564

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    Returning to Edmonton tonight at midnight. Province-wide roll-out soon.

    http://globalnews.ca/news/2796217/ub.../?sf30016745=1
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    Hooray, oh wait... no smartphone.
    www.decl.org

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    ^Use your ipad 1.
    www.decl.org

  67. #567

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    Edmonton the first Canadian city to be mapped by Uber.

    Edmonton will become the first Canadian city to be mapped by Uber, the ride-sharing company announced Friday.
    A few dozen Uber mapping cars have begun to criss-cross Edmonton collecting data and images as part of an international project.
    “For us, the most important thing for Uber globally is to improve the pickup and drop-off experience,” Manik Gupta, Uber’s head of mapping and a former Google Maps executive, said in an interview Friday.


    http://edmontonjournal.com/business/...mapped-by-uber
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    Saw an Uber mapping car here yesterday. Turns out that we're the only place in Canada/US that's getting this so far. Not really sure what it means yet though.

    https://www.uber.com/info/mapping/#next

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    Toronto woman says Uber driver demanded oral sex for fare

    I'm pretty sure you wouldn't have to look too hard to find similar stories involving regular cabbies. Still, not good PR for Uber.
    Last edited by overoceans; 23-10-2016 at 12:45 PM.

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    Sounds like Uber needs maps in a bad way:
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toront...land-1.3818221
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    Quote Originally Posted by howie View Post
    Sounds like Uber needs maps in a bad way:
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toront...land-1.3818221
    No sounds like someone had poor password security.

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    Uber is losing money hand-over-fist
    The ride-sharing company is disrupting the notion of profit.

    Things aren't going so well for Uber these days. California wants the company to stop testing its self-driving vehicles without the state's permission, and on Monday Bloomberg reported that the company lost $800 million in Q3 2016 on revenues of $1.7 billion. To make things worse, that number doesn't include anything the company lost in China, a market in which Uber has been spending heavily of late. All told, the poster child for "disruption" looks set to lose more than $3 billion this year.

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    Much was made about Google and Facebook's losses early on. Now? Regulators are starting to sniff around them for being too dominant/monopolistic and profitable. I don't know that it will get to that point with Uber, as I don't believe that the self-reinforcing benefits of being a "platform" like Google and Facebook are as applicable. But they're going to be a major, major player in transportation and who knows what other industries going forward.

    That being said, I still haven't gotten around to setting up an Uber account nor have I ridden in one. One of these days I'll get around to it. Living downtown, I don't need to take cabs often, and when I do, they're incredibly easy to come by.

  74. #574

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    Just under a year into Uber I can say I will never look back. Cheaper service. Quicker service. Cleaner service. All around a better business model that im happy to continue to support.
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  75. #575

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    The time will come when those losses are no longer acceptable, and prices will go up.
    There can only be one.

  76. #576

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    ^And the economy will improve and drivers won't be satisfied wearing out their vehicles for less than minimum wage.
    I feel in no way entitled to your opinion...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Highlander II View Post
    The time will come when those losses are no longer acceptable, and prices will go up.
    They could double and we'd end up even with Cab costs but at least I know a car is coming.

    There end game is to get rid of drivers though, and then the prices won't have to go up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    ^And the economy will improve and drivers won't be satisfied wearing out their vehicles for less than minimum wage.
    Several analyses, already linked in the thread, have suggested that there is very little net income after all vehicle costs, appreciation, use, are factored in. In some jurisdictions the "pay" isn't even close to minimum wage.

    They dick the drivers and the company still doesn't report making money.

    But lo and behold watch the fares surge up to the stratosphere again this Happy Festivus season.

    I think I might go to the community hall near my place and ask if anybody is shelling out 1K to take a ride home this NYE..
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    Quote Originally Posted by Channing View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Highlander II View Post
    The time will come when those losses are no longer acceptable, and prices will go up.
    They could double and we'd end up even with Cab costs but at least I know a car is coming.

    There end game is to get rid of drivers though, and then the prices won't have to go up.
    You honestly believe Uber would not have any surge pricing multiples without paying drivers? My bet is they would anyway.

    Nor has it ever been necessary, in any way, in any other job jurisdiction or category, to pay people 10X what they normally make in order to get them to "come to work"

    lol I don't know anybody making 3X. Most I've ever had in my life is doubletime. I'm not among the blessed apparently.

    The 10Times surge rates has always been pure graft bs. Stuff that should never occur or be allowed to occur in any democratic country with supposedly benevolent govt
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    You can always choose not to ride if the surge price is unacceptable. Or get in a cab. Assuming you can find one, or they don't refuse your destination.

    If people accept ridges at surge prices I'm not sure what the problem is. Free market, supply and demand, blah blah blah.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Channing View Post
    You can always choose not to ride if the surge price is unacceptable. Or get in a cab. Assuming you can find one, or they don't refuse your destination.

    If people accept ridges at surge prices I'm not sure what the problem is. Free market, supply and demand, blah blah blah.
    You're not sure what the problem is beyond heinous taking advantage of people in all likelihood at their most inebriated, bombed state, and them taking a ride because they probably couldn't even find their car if they had it parked around or know that they even owned one?

    You see nothing wrong at all with taking advantage of people in some of their most vulnerable moments?

    Have you ever been anywhere extremely intoxicated in your life? Do you find that you have 100% good judgement at such times?

    This is the very definition of a vulnerable customer. Any service practicing even a modicum of ethical delivery should not be continuing the surge pricing status quo on obvious party nights.


    Your line of logic brings "let the buyer beware" to one of the most extreme conclusions I've ever seen written here.

    Ride for hire and especially late night or party ride for hire is a special kind of business. A kind of business that almost expressly services people who are inebriated. Many awfully inebriated. Again vulnerable.

    Would it be OK for Limo drivers to just spring 10 times fare ride for the last jaunt in the pub crawl out to Spruce Grove.., just because, read the fine print blah blah blah..wake up with the big bill hangover and your wallet empty.

    Despite your take even Uber, in the face of outright condemnation of their service and surge pricing even admitted that the degree of surge pricing was inappropriate on the NYE in question and they worked with customers to resolve matters on an individual basis but only after people went to the media to complain and after it became an incredible hot mess for Uber. Yeah, my definition of one of the most deplorable businesses that exist.


    Your defense of this Uber industry knows no bounds.
    Last edited by Replacement; 20-12-2016 at 08:34 PM.
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  82. #582

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    ...

    Your defense of this Uber industry knows no bounds.
    Heh, no bounds. As in your employ of absurd conclusions. What app did you use for that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spill View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    ...

    Your defense of this Uber industry knows no bounds.
    Heh, no bounds. As in your employ of absurd conclusions. What app did you use for that?
    Its a free app that came complimentary with my brain as assigned

    I didn't get to pick..

    Feel free to cite specifically what you disagree with. You know, as in having discourse on a topic.

    Every one of the customers quoted in the NYE surge pricing bonanza was bombed out of their mind and with the common refrain being "didn't realize till the day after..

    I guess I can judge every one of those people but its not mutually exclusive to realize significant amounts of alcohol consumption on you know, NYE, might have a pronounced effect on ones evaluative abilities and cognition and that perhaps free market ethos shouldn't be cited when none of those customers was in a condition in which to properly give consent to the gouging surging .
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    lol

    The difference between surge pricing with Uber and cabs ripping you off? At least with Uber you have someone to complain too and who tracks you and your transaction. With cabs you can't prove it. Especially when drunk.

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    And what if you don't pay it? or give them your lawyers phone number
    Last edited by Drumbones; 20-12-2016 at 10:16 PM.

  86. #586
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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement
    You see nothing wrong at all with taking advantage of people in some of their most vulnerable moments?


    Those people willingly put themselves in that position because they chose to get intoxicated without having a designated driver or some other arrangement for a ride on the busiest day of the year. Just like they willingly agree to pay the surge price when booking the ride. There's no moral issue here. We aren't talking about necessities of life here. If they don't want to pay $100 for a ride from Whyte to Downtown or whatever, then they should have planned their evening better.

    If someone wants to go out and get drunk on the busiest night of the year, that's up to them, and I'm occasionally one of them. Uber has no societal or moral responsibility to return them or I safely to their abode at 3am at a reasonable fixed price. And in any case, the alternative prior to Uber was that you could not get a ride under nearly any circumstance between 10pm and 4am on NYE unless you got lucky. How is that better?

    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement
    Have you ever been anywhere extremely intoxicated in your life? Do you find that you have 100% good judgement at such times?


    It's called personal responsibility. We don't let drunk drivers off the hook when they didn't have good judgement because of their intoxication. Why does personal responsibility fly out the window when it comes to vehicles for hire?

    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement
    Would it be OK for Limo drivers to just spring 10 times fare ride for the last jaunt in the pub crawl out to Spruce Grove.., just because, read the fine print blah blah blah..wake up with the big bill hangover and your wallet empty.


    Yes, if it was clearly communicated. Not "hidden in fine print", which by definition is the exact OPPOSITE of how surge pricing acceptance works. It's right in your face, not cleverly hidden somewhere.
    Last edited by Marcel Petrin; 20-12-2016 at 10:23 PM.

  87. #587
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    I guess I'll be hitch hiking again. Dang

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post

    ... you could not get a ride under nearly any circumstance between 10pm and 4am on NYE unless you got lucky. How is that better?
    Ummm... she gave me a ride and I got lucky?
    I feel in no way entitled to your opinion...

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    Marcel. What is your definition of informed consent while a person is not at all sober. But is instead loaded.

    "Personal responsibility" What?

    All a person that's inebriated wants is a safe ride home. That's all the people did want. That's not being irresponsible. Its actually taking the safer means home which should be encouraged, not punished. Its perfectly plausible to expect some nature of reasonable fare, and any court would likely support this, that it is patently unreasonable under any circumstance to expect a ride for hire to cost 1K to take you to the same damn metropolitan city. Has nothing to do with avoiding personal responsibility, has much more to do with a reasonable expectation of what a service should cost. Reasonable expectation of cost involving a contract is something that has been pursued in courts in most legal jurisdictions. I dare say no jurisdiction I am aware of would side with Ubers billing of 1K cost for just a municipal cab ride and to my knowledge none have. Uber settled with claimants BECAUSE they wanted to keep such matters out of court where class action damages are much more of a risk and which they already face in several jurisdictions and for reasons already accounted for in the thread.

    Not sure about you but I'm well aware of people being so drunk they can hardly see straight and certainly can't read properly at the time. Even if they could the person would be just as likely to think that the 1000 bucks was a misread, or drunken misinterpretation. "Perfectly clear" lol nothing is perfectly clear while bombed and consent to such outrageous fares is not had while under the influence.

    Not speaking first person either, I'm not prone to allowing myself to be vulnerable. But the standard NYE party largely does involve significant inebriation and people largely do imbibe copiously on that occasion. Really for many people the whole point of going out on NYE. Who are you to say those people are not being responsible (one night of the year) just for not following through to pay 1K for a brief ride home. That could be your opinion that those people are being irresponsible. It isn't an opinion that would likely be shared in a court of law. It isn't even an opinion shared by Uber who settled countless over surge cases out of court and on a case by case basis.

    Finally that you compare people that hire Uber to drive them home(responsible action) with drunk drivers chosing to drive home is an incredible stretch. One that you seemingly make given how tenuous your position is and your poor understanding of the issue at hand. Drunk driving for instance being a criminal offense. Conversely please cite one person in the world that has been criminally charged for not paying a 10X Uber surge fare. Please cite any and all 3rd party liabilities involving somebody not paying the total Uber surge fare. Were you drunk when you made that comparison? Has it even occurred to you that someone in Edmonton (with tons of migrant workers) may not be able to arrange a ride home with friend or family and only recourse is paid fare? How ridiculous to call such people irresponsible for taking a ride for hire home.
    Last edited by Replacement; 21-12-2016 at 01:31 AM.
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  90. #590
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    Quote Originally Posted by Channing View Post
    lol

    The difference between surge pricing with Uber and cabs ripping you off? At least with Uber you have someone to complain too and who tracks you and your transaction. With cabs you can't prove it. Especially when drunk.
    Please cite one instance in Edmonton of somebody getting ripped off 1K by a cabbie during Ubers timeframe here. Cite one published instance of a cabbie saying that the fare is 1k from Edmonton to St Albert.

    Oh, maybe its not the same, at all.

    In Ubers instance the arguable robbery is the invoked fare itself. Initiated through their system that they imposed. If a cabbie goes rogue and robs somebody how is that one and the same? Please cite one instance here where a cab company told a driver to demand 1K for a municipal fare.

    lol that uber is better in that it rips you off on fares like no other personal conveyance outside of shady operators in Mexico or third world countries but that it produces a paper trail so that a least you know how much they ripped you off this time..

    Or alternately uber could conduct business that is conducive with reasonable expectation of fares and not suffer all this in court and out of court grief.

    Can anybody even argue that 10X surge pricing has been good for Ubers reputation? Even Uber acknowledged that the surge multiplier in these instances did not work as they planned and resulted in improper fares that they stated are not best practice ideal and not how the system was expected to work.
    Last edited by Replacement; 21-12-2016 at 01:15 AM.
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    One passenger told CityNewsshe found $3,000 missing from her bank account following a ride with a (in retrospect) shady driver.

    Beattie said it's been difficult to track down the parties responsible because most people aren't noting down a cab number, nor are they immediately aware that the card they're taking home is fraudulent.
    A similar scam, which could be related, took place in Montreal last year. In that case, the cabbies made off with $450,000 over a period of several months.
    https://www.vice.com/en_ca/article/t...-bank-accounts


    I'm sorry I didn't find an Edmonton specific example, but I'm certain it happens here too.

    Please pretend that being ripped in cabs is a better system.

    Also please keep pretending a cab would take you from Edmonton to St. Albert on NYE including multiple stops.

  92. #592

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Much was made about Google and Facebook's losses early on. Now? Regulators are starting to sniff around them for being too dominant/monopolistic and profitable. I don't know that it will get to that point with Uber, as I don't believe that the self-reinforcing benefits of being a "platform" like Google and Facebook are as applicable. But they're going to be a major, major player in transportation and who knows what other industries going forward.

    That being said, I still haven't gotten around to setting up an Uber account nor have I ridden in one. One of these days I'll get around to it. Living downtown, I don't need to take cabs often, and when I do, they're incredibly easy to come by.
    Yup. This is a long term strategy to choke out the taxi companies, the losses are intentional. I was in LA recently and outsite of LAX, I didn't see a single cab.

  93. #593
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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Marcel. What is your definition of informed consent while a person is not at all sober. But is instead loaded.

    "Personal responsibility" What?

    All a person that's inebriated wants is a safe ride home. That's all the people did want. That's not being irresponsible. Its actually taking the safer means home which should be encouraged, not punished. Its perfectly plausible to expect some nature of reasonable fare, and any court would likely support this, that it is patently unreasonable under any circumstance to expect a ride for hire to cost 1K to take you to the same damn metropolitan city. Has nothing to do with avoiding personal responsibility, has much more to do with a reasonable expectation of what a service should cost. Reasonable expectation of cost involving a contract is something that has been pursued in courts in most legal jurisdictions. I dare say no jurisdiction I am aware of would side with Ubers billing of 1K cost for just a municipal cab ride and to my knowledge none have. Uber settled with claimants BECAUSE they wanted to keep such matters out of court where class action damages are much more of a risk and which they already face in several jurisdictions and for reasons already accounted for in the thread.

    Not sure about you but I'm well aware of people being so drunk they can hardly see straight and certainly can't read properly at the time. Even if they could the person would be just as likely to think that the 1000 bucks was a misread, or drunken misinterpretation. "Perfectly clear" lol nothing is perfectly clear while bombed and consent to such outrageous fares is not had while under the influence.

    Not speaking first person either, I'm not prone to allowing myself to be vulnerable. But the standard NYE party largely does involve significant inebriation and people largely do imbibe copiously on that occasion. Really for many people the whole point of going out on NYE. Who are you to say those people are not being responsible (one night of the year) just for not following through to pay 1K for a brief ride home. That could be your opinion that those people are being irresponsible. It isn't an opinion that would likely be shared in a court of law. It isn't even an opinion shared by Uber who settled countless over surge cases out of court and on a case by case basis.

    Finally that you compare people that hire Uber to drive them home(responsible action) with drunk drivers chosing to drive home is an incredible stretch. One that you seemingly make given how tenuous your position is and your poor understanding of the issue at hand. Drunk driving for instance being a criminal offense. Conversely please cite one person in the world that has been criminally charged for not paying a 10X Uber surge fare. Please cite any and all 3rd party liabilities involving somebody not paying the total Uber surge fare. Were you drunk when you made that comparison? Has it even occurred to you that someone in Edmonton (with tons of migrant workers) may not be able to arrange a ride home with friend or family and only recourse is paid fare? How ridiculous to call such people irresponsible for taking a ride for hire home.
    Why shouldn't people be held equally responsible for their actions while voluntarily intoxicated? I can understand some leeway for people who have never used a particular drug before (or never used it at a high dosage before) and have an unusually strong reaction to it, but otherwise you should be taking steps beforehand to minimize the risk. If you are sober enough to navigate the Uber app on you phone, you are sober enough to accept the price. That said, I think some restrictions on profiteering are in order. A 10x surge multiplier is like the stores that jack up the prices on emergency supplies 10x when there is a potential disaster forecast. There should be a cap at 4x or 5x. There should also be some responsibility on the part of the establishments who profit from selling intoxicating substances to partygoers to babysit them for a reasonable period of time after last call and not throw them out into the street at 2:00 am in them middle of winter.

  94. #594
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    Quote Originally Posted by Channing View Post
    One passenger told CityNewsshe found $3,000 missing from her bank account following a ride with a (in retrospect) shady driver.

    Beattie said it's been difficult to track down the parties responsible because most people aren't noting down a cab number, nor are they immediately aware that the card they're taking home is fraudulent.
    A similar scam, which could be related, took place in Montreal last year. In that case, the cabbies made off with $450,000 over a period of several months.
    https://www.vice.com/en_ca/article/t...-bank-accounts


    I'm sorry I didn't find an Edmonton specific example, but I'm certain it happens here too.

    Please pretend that being ripped in cabs is a better system.

    Also please keep pretending a cab would take you from Edmonton to St. Albert on NYE including multiple stops.
    I asked for the information and thank you for providing it. I had not heard of these instances in Toronto or Montreal. I have heard that cab operations there are shadier there than here and as as many business practices are, particularly in Montreal. I appreciated standing corrected on this part of the matter. Still, these ARE rogue actions to scam people of considerable sums of money by specific cab operators. Deplorable actions but they are not equal to a company gouging people through excessive fares as part of a COMPANY POLICY.

    Hey, again I'm sure theres some of you that have limitless cash and feel that 1K for a car for hire From Edmonton to St. Albert (one stop) is reasonable. But not even Uber felt those charges were reasonable AFTER they were threatened with multiple instances of litigation, countless people going to the press, talking to MLA's MP's Alderman etc.

    The truth here is that variant surge pricing to the degree that it shot up is unreasonable (theres a cited instance of 50X surge pricing in Stockholm. (I don't know if the link will work)

    http://www.businessinsider.com/ubers...be-50x-2014-11


    Heres another often cited recent concern with Uber. They are now trying to actively disguise the price surge multiplier and not indicate the multiplier. They now just show the fare. Now to some this many seem like progress. However, particularly for tourists who would not be familiar with how long the trip is, what the typical fare would be, its difficult for them to evaluate whether they are getting jacked on the fare. Myself I think that's unfortunate, and that it impacts tourists, and even cities if that kind of scamming is going on. Things like this can leave an impression on people. Surge pricing certainly has, its the most unpopular aspect of Uber business policy (opposed by jurisdictions, customers and drivers) and now they're just trying to hide it. Pretend it doesn't exist.

    http://qz.com/676502/uber-has-quietl...as-we-know-it/
    Last edited by Replacement; 21-12-2016 at 11:05 AM.
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  95. #595
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    Quote Originally Posted by Titanium48 View Post
    [Why shouldn't people be held equally responsible for their actions while voluntarily intoxicated? I can understand some leeway for people who have never used a particular drug before (or never used it at a high dosage before) and have an unusually strong reaction to it, but otherwise you should be taking steps beforehand to minimize the risk. If you are sober enough to navigate the Uber app on you phone, you are sober enough to accept the price. That said, I think some restrictions on profiteering are in order. A 10x surge multiplier is like the stores that jack up the prices on emergency supplies 10x when there is a potential disaster forecast. There should be a cap at 4x or 5x. There should also be some responsibility on the part of the establishments who profit from selling intoxicating substances to partygoers to babysit them for a reasonable period of time after last call and not throw them out into the street at 2:00 am in them middle of winter.
    I'll try to be real succinct here. I thought Marcels comparing people who are drunk and hire a ride home vs people who are drunk and drive home is inane. I'm not sure how I can point that out any clearer.

    These two exist on OPPOSITE sides of the spectrum. The people getting inebriated (and not causing any other problem hypothetically) and making a decision for a safe ride home for themselves and others are what we as a Society WANT people to do. Jurisdictions, the COE, have worked hard to have options to people so that they are dissuaded from driving home intoxicated.

    Now Marcel is likely to specifically deny making any comparison between the two, drunk drivers vs those using alternate ride for hire but he made this statement;

    "It's called personal responsibility. We don't let drunk drivers off the hook when they didn't have good judgement because of their intoxication. Why does personal responsibility fly out the window when it comes to vehicles for hire?"

    If you think that is a reasonable take then, well, we just majorly disagree on this.


    Finally, and again, I will separate that this is me defending others actions after giving it a lot of thought through time. Probably like a lot of people my first thought was unkind. As in "what kind of *****" or "one born every minute" but then I remembered I was young once, probably made some bad decisions and worse under the influence. (although confined mostly to some bad dalliances through temporary clouded judgement Myself or friends back in the day would walk home though if we didn't have a ride. Was nothing unordinary to walk home 10miles back in the day. Some of would go to a party and walk home 1-2hrs across the city. Walking home to Jasper Place from Whyte Ave was nothing irregular. Even in winter. Even somewhat drunk. But never so drunk passing out or anything.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

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    I used Uber recently and it was hella cheaper than rip off taxis. I would never use a taxi again!

  97. #597

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    You can now (properly) take and be picked up by Uber at Calgary's airport: https://www.uber.com/airports/yyc/

    I imagine it could be an option soon here too

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    Anyone a driver for Uber here????

    I'm looking at becoming one. I have my Class 4 now. What other stuff do I need to legally satisfy the law in AB???

  99. #599

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    I have used Uber occasionally before but will use it from now on.

    I was in Miami for a few days and exiting the airport, we waited nearly an hour for our hotel shuttle to arrive and it never came. We took the airport cab which was a typical 2nd hand Crown Victoria police car that smelled of urine and had no rear suspension. $25 fixed rate to go less than 4 miles.

    For the rest of our stay in Miami we used Uber and the cars were very clean and service was half the price. Some drivers were Cuban and barely spoke English but it did not matter much. Mostly standard sedans but also a brand new fully loaded Hyundai Santa Fe, Ford Explorer and an Acura. The only problem I had was going to the airport with the wife and 4 pieces of luggage that the guy with a Nissan had a cooler and four 24 packs of bottled water so it was a tight squeeze.

    When we arrived in Montreal tonight, the airport has a special door and nice loading area just for Uber. One guy and his wife used Uber Select and a big Rolls Royce Ghost pulls up and he was just as surprised as anyone else. He said it was about $60 compared to his regular $50 cab ride.

    I will use Uber from now on.
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 07-02-2017 at 12:15 AM.
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  100. #600

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    I arrived today in Montreal and there were about 40 to 50 people waiting for uber. 7 minute wait. That works out to about one uber leaving the airport every 10 seconds.

    Taxis are doomed
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