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Thread: Would you use Uber here?

  1. #1

    Default Would you use Uber here?

    I'm just curious if any one has used Uber and if you see a big role for it in Edmonton as an alternative to traditional cab calling.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    I'm just curious if any one has used Uber and if you see a big role for it in Edmonton as an alternative to traditional cab calling.
    I haven't used it although I coworker has in Seattle. I would use it if it came up here.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

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    cab drivers in the city would lose their **** if it came here.

    seems like a pretty good service though given how awful cabs are in just about every city on the planet.
    be offended! figure out why later...

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    Quote Originally Posted by richardW View Post
    cab drivers in the city would lose their **** if it came here.

    seems like a pretty good service though given how awful cabs are in just about every city on the planet.
    Heavily regulated protected industries tend to get upset when their effective monopolies are challenged. Technology has enabled a new way of providing this service that deserves a chance.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

  5. #5

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    I'd never heard of it, but now looking at it, I wonder if it might have to apply for a taxi licence and be subject to taxi regulation anyways.

    Are other Canadian cities doing it?

    That said, the existing taxi drivers might prefer it to their existing slave drivers.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

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    Looks like they're in Toronto and Halifax.

    I'm going to be in San Antonio and Austin in a week. Might have to try them out.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

  7. #7

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    ^they are being fined in Toronto for not having taxi licenses. The GPS track and paying online with no tips is nice, if I owned a taxi company I'd copy that before they come.

  8. #8

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    Absolutely, having lived in Edmonton for most of my life and now a resident of San Francisco. Every time I'm in Edmonton I feel the car service is 3rd world, Uber is incredibly useful. The drivers love it, its all based on driver and passenger ratings and much more elastic as for as demand goes compared to Cab companies. I am much more likely to get a lift somewhere in a city if they have an Uber service, than if I have to wait for a cab. Nothing beats booking a car while paying for you bill at a restaurant or bar, getting a text your car is 2 mins away and walking outside to catch it. I'm sure the cab companies will fight it but I would 100% use it every time I was in town.

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    ^ the service also seems like a good way to make a bit of spare cash on the side if you are so inclined.

    I know my job does not lend itself to second jobs but if i could make a couple extra bucks (legally) here and there that would be sweet
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  10. #10

    Default Uber taxi app official meets with City of Edmonton

    A representative of the controversial smartphone taxi app Uber met with the city of Edmonton on Thursday.

    Garry Dziwenka, director of licensing with the city of Edmonton, said the 90-minute meeting was introductory in nature.

    “We basically talked about their service, and how they conduct their business, talked about our bylaw and our requirements,” he said. “It was a friendly, get to know each other type of meeting.
    CBC News
    Let's make Edmonton better.

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    I pray the city doesn't stand in the way of Uber setting up shop here. Uber is an awesome service. It wouldn't be needed if city cabs were kept clean, courteous, and safe. I hate taking local cabs. I would never use one again unless they changed their business model/practices to compete. Being able to know exactly who your driver will be, pay using the app, being able to locate the vehicle on a map, etc is pretty awesome and make Uber incredibly attractive.

  12. #12

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    Don't assume all will be sunshine and roses with Uber. They seem pretty lax in background checks.

    A driver with transportation firm Uber was charged Tuesday with striking a passenger in San Francisco's Castro neighborhood, in a case that heightened the debate over the regulation of startups that have disrupted the taxi industry.

    Daveea Whitmire, 28, of San Francisco punched his passenger in the hand and elbowed him in the chest after the two got into an argument in November, according to the district attorney's office. The passenger didn't think Whitmire was the driver assigned to his ride, prosecutors said, and took a photo of the license plate, prompting Whitmire to lash out.

    Though Whitmire passed Uber's background checks, court records show he has a criminal past, including convictions for felony drug dealing and misdemeanor battery.

    http://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/...er-5526413.php
    Working with the NBC4 I-Team, Locke filled out all the necessary documentation needed to become an Uber driver. She proved she was a licensed driver with a safe car, and agreed to submit to a background check.
    Four weeks later, she received an e-mail indicating her background check had cleared.
    On her first day "on the job," she received a request from Paolo, a frequent UberX user, who was looking for a ride from his Hollywood apartment. He is an Uber fan.

    "I pulled a girl out of a car and almost beat her to death," said Locke, who described herself as a reformed criminal with a good job and a desire to make up for her past. "I do not do criminal things anymore."
    NBC4 asked Locke to cancel the ride, so the former convict never actually carried a passenger. But the NBC4 I-Team found several examples in which drivers with a criminal past have picked up Uber passengers.
    Tadeusz Szczechowicz drove the streets of Chicago for a year, despite five prior arrests and two convictions for burglary and disorderly conduct.
    Syed Muzzafar had a prior conviction for reckless driving, but he cleared the Uber background check and was behind the wheel New Year's Eve when he was arrested for hitting and killing a 6-year-old girl in San Francisco.
    And, Jigneshkumar Patel was arrested for battery of an UberX passenger, a charge he said is "rubbish." Still, the UberX driver had a 2012 conviction for DUI.


    http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/lo...256604571.html
    They may do better here but then again, they may do worse.

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  14. #14

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    http://i.imgur.com/DNt10sj.png
    Found this on reddit, looks like Uber is coming to Edmonton.

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    Can't wait. This will be amazing. I love the app and using it in other cities I have traveled to including NYC. Yay happy me.

  16. #16

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    Just wondering though, doesn't this conflict with Edmonton's existing taxi laws? I though they had to be licensed by the city, looks like Uber is going on it's own on this one. I remember reading something a couple weeks ago where city officials in Ottawa charged 2 Uber drivers for having an illegal business. Uber said they would compensate the drivers and support them fully. I'm wondering if something similar is going to happen here.

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    The mayor recently said he liked the idea. I hope he supports this as edmontons taxis are nasty. The convenience and quality alone make Uber a great addition. It's more like a private limo than a taxi in a business sense. I think they should be able to coexist in Edmonton with our standard taxi services. If some of our standard taxi services can't compete, I don't particularly care if they disappear. This is about quality or service for the same cost. And Uber wins across the board.

  18. #18

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    I have been using Uber and it is Awesome! Cashless. Drivers offering bottled water! I'm in transportation love
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

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    Last edited by jagators63; 27-12-2014 at 05:15 PM.
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    Cause it's never happened with a taxi? Give me a break.

  21. #21

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    I'm disappointed in myself for not taking a free ride. I planned to. Nowhere special, maybe around the block a few times to try it out and get the driver paid. Never did.

    I'll still give it a try. I set up my account so I'm prepared to mash buttons when inebriated after a night of karaoke.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

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    I think Uber will be great at night time when demand for taxis is great. We need Uber when there's a two hour wait for taxis.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

  23. #23

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    I wouldn't use Uber anymore than I would shop at Walmart.

    I'm opposed to multinational take over giants that engage in heavily anti competitive practice and that stop at nothing in their global quest.

    just say no
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  24. #24

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    ^OK we got it. Replacement won't use Uber. You can stop now
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  25. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    ^OK we got it. Replacement won't use Uber. You can stop now
    In case there was any mystery. lol
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  26. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Cat View Post
    I think Uber will be great at night time when demand for taxis is great. We need Uber when there's a two hour wait for taxis.
    Once uber gets fully established we won't have to worry about Taxi competition. There won't be any.

    Oh but then about the Uber pricing response and surge pricing to fill demand.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

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    I don't trust Uber because of their controversial with the cities everywhere
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  28. #28

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    I would use Uber in a second before calling any taxi company. In the past 5 years I have used taxis 3 times. Once the guy was three hours late(i didn't care very much cuz I was on work time) another drove right passed us because someone we were with was drunk. Ended up taking him to court through the cities excellent vehical for hire bylaw officers. He got a 400$ fine. And one time the cab never showed at all so someone who was probably just under the 0.05 limit drove.

    That is not including my expereaces when I used to go to clubs and the multitude of times cabs would not pick you up.

    So yes I would use Uber in a second as every expereance with cabs up until now has been poor.

  29. #29

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    ^Why wouldn't a driver refuse to pick up patrons who are drunk? I would expect them to refuse that fare in the interests of their safety.

    Can't understand for an instant why they'd be sanctioned for it either.

    Alcohol abuse and violence are indelibly related:

    https://ncadd.org/learn-about-alcohol/alcohol-and-crime


    Its not the cab industries responsibility either to pinch hit babysit drive a society that has had an alcohol abuse epidemic. That's on society and mores and values that have deemed that every weekend is drink your face off binging time excess and with each city now having multiple drinking districts.

    This is a social and societal problem, not a cab drivers problem.
    Last edited by Replacement; 28-12-2014 at 05:16 PM.
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    Taxis are there to drive people home who can not drive themselves, which include people who were smart enough not to drink and drive. Cameras, safety shields etc are there to help. Someone going batshit crazy making threats Eric's should probably not be picked up, but the rest of the public having had a few drinks should be able to safely hire a ride home. Taxi commission goes on about how they know their staff etc and they're all great drivers and because they are licenced suddenly you are magically extra safe in their vehicles. I call BS. Taxi drivers are some of the worst out there. They take shortcuts, make illegal turns, etc. At least with Uber I can sue for much more than I can with a city taxi. Knowing what my driver looks like, their car details, etc provide me more safety than what I get from the city when I call a cab.

  31. #31

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    No no, Replacement is right. Cabs shouldn't pick up drunk people. He can rest easy, forever, when he gets killed by a drunk who drove because they were refused a cab despite being non-violent. It's OK though. The drunk will get a conditional sentence, a fine, and be back on the road in a year. Replacement on the other hand will be a) worm food and b) unable to continue making ridiculous statements on this forum.

    The very government that regulates taxis specifically advocates for folks who drink to use those taxis.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

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    I'll just repost this from the other thread

    Uber’s success signals need to fix flawed taxi systems in Canadian cities

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repor...ticle22221313/
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  33. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    No no, Replacement is right. Cabs shouldn't pick up drunk people. He can rest easy, forever, when he gets killed by a drunk who drove because they were refused a cab despite being non-violent. It's OK though. The drunk will get a conditional sentence, a fine, and be back on the road in a year. Replacement on the other hand will be a) worm food and b) unable to continue making ridiculous statements on this forum.

    The very government that regulates taxis specifically advocates for folks who drink to use those taxis.
    Sorry ahole. I believe in a society that doesn't advocate binge drinking every weekend and alcoholism for many.

    A society I would condone wouldn't further such excess with everything from role modeling to media, to advertising in essence TELLING young people that life involves alcohol excess and that it is a necessary ingredient in fun, social activity, and going out.

    That we now have complete neighborhoods known as drinking zones or party zones is a sure sign of the extent of the problem.

    ymmv
    Last edited by Replacement; 28-12-2014 at 05:48 PM.
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  34. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by etownboarder View Post
    Taxis are there to drive people home who can not drive themselves, which include people who were smart enough not to drink and drive. Cameras, safety shields etc are there to help. Someone going batshit crazy making threats Eric's should probably not be picked up, but the rest of the public having had a few drinks should be able to safely hire a ride home. Taxi commission goes on about how they know their staff etc and they're all great drivers and because they are licenced suddenly you are magically extra safe in their vehicles. I call BS. Taxi drivers are some of the worst out there. They take shortcuts, make illegal turns, etc. At least with Uber I can sue for much more than I can with a city taxi. Knowing what my driver looks like, their car details, etc provide me more safety than what I get from the city when I call a cab.
    People who are drunk are unpredictable as a rule and with possibility of aggressive behavior as one of the clearly known symptoms. Alcohol is the most used and most poorly misunderstood drug. Which is often taken in excess.

    I have no idea why people that go out and drink to excess have it in their minds that somebody that doesn't know them will drive them home and take full responsibility for their ongoing behavior.

    Due to countless past transgression, physical assaults on cab drivers, abuse of cab drivers, murder of cab drivers its a known in this city that the cab industry does not want to pick up drunk patrons in party districts. So people doing that and expecting continued service are deluding themselves.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  35. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    No no, Replacement is right. Cabs shouldn't pick up drunk people. He can rest easy, forever, when he gets killed by a drunk who drove because they were refused a cab despite being non-violent. It's OK though. The drunk will get a conditional sentence, a fine, and be back on the road in a year. Replacement on the other hand will be a) worm food and b) unable to continue making ridiculous statements on this forum.

    The very government that regulates taxis specifically advocates for folks who drink to use those taxis.
    Sorry ahole. I believe in a society that doesn't advocate binge drinking every weekend and alcoholism for many.

    Edit: I'd rather be a living ahole than a dead closed-minded fool. People drink. Cabs get drunk people home. Incredibly, human ingenuity created a solution to the problem of people having fun. You wouldn't know about that though.
    A society I would condone wouldn't further such excess with everything from role modeling to media, to advertising in essence TELLING young people that life involves alcohol excess and that it is a necessary ingredient in fun, social activity, and going out.

    That we now have complete neighborhoods known as drinking zones or party zones is a sure sign of the extent of the problem.

    ymmv
    Who's talking about excess? A few drinks over dinner can result in someone needing to take a cab.

    Edit: I'd rather be a living ahole than a dead, closed-minded fool. People drink. Taxis get drunk people home. Human ingenuity created a solution to the problem of people having fun. You wouldn't know about that though.
    Last edited by Chmilz; 28-12-2014 at 05:59 PM. Reason: Addition
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  36. #36

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    ^ Drinking is a decision, not a need, and the sidebar here is Taxi drivers avoiding picking people up who are drunk and likely due to that being belligerent.

    Next, nearly everything in the way that society extols alcohol is connected with excess.

    Most watering holes in this city are cesspools of excess. I can hardly fault a cab driver, any of them, for making a decision not to pick up fares on say Whyte Avenue.

    edit to edit. lol Speaking of closed minded it looks like you've bought the unfortunate concept that alcohol abuse =fun. Carry on. I've spent my entire career knowing a much different reality exists.
    Last edited by Replacement; 28-12-2014 at 06:05 PM.
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  37. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz;649292Edit: I'd rather be a living ahole than a dead, closed-minded fool. People drink. Taxis get drunk people home. [B
    Human ingenuity created a solution to the problem of people having fun. You wouldn't know about that though[/B].
    Quoted for its absolute, and clueless inanity.

    Equating alcohol consumption with fun.

    yikes
    Last edited by Replacement; 28-12-2014 at 06:09 PM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  38. #38

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    . . . no, they don't accept cash, I do not agree with their data-mining, and it has the optics (my take) of a pump and dump MLM opertation.

  39. #39

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    For the record i almost never drink.. never have really. however the 3-4 times i do.. i would prefer to take a cab then drive drunk.. and i would prefer that the majority (nvm ALL) of people do so as well..

    due to this i ended up being DD most of the time when i was younger.. hey and guess what i did.. i charged 20$ for this.. so i guess i was operating an unlicensed Cab and Replacement would rather me go to jail then offer to be a DD for my inconvenience?

    personally i would rather keep our Transit system operating at 100% capacity 24/7 rather then rely on the unreliable cab industry both regular and uber.

  40. #40

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    Navigating the public transit system when drunk probably isn't easy, especially if you don't regularly use it.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    ^Why wouldn't a driver refuse to pick up patrons who are drunk? I would expect them to refuse that fare in the interests of their safety.

    Can't understand for an instant why they'd be sanctioned for it either.

    Alcohol abuse and violence are indelibly related:

    https://ncadd.org/learn-about-alcohol/alcohol-and-crime


    Its not the cab industries responsibility either to pinch hit babysit drive a society that has had an alcohol abuse epidemic. That's on society and mores and values that have deemed that every weekend is drink your face off binging time excess and with each city now having multiple drinking districts.

    This is a social and societal problem, not a cab drivers problem.
    When the cabbies have society granting them an exclusive licence to operate it is their responsibility to babysit the drunks.

  42. #42

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    ^ Exclusive licence? lol. There isn't a person on this board that would want to be one. If by some large stroke of improbability there is please speak out and including why you would want to be one and how you would be different in an industry that hears about robbery, abuse, assaults, every day.

    People seem to have no awareness whatsoever what it is actually like to do this job.

    A profession more dangerous that a police officer, an RCMP constable, a soldier. In short the most dangerous occupation known to man.

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/cab-dr...work-1.1258776

    So no, no matter how often its stated by those that would want it the case, it isn't the responsibility of the cab industry to babysit drunk, abusive aggressive demographics. The job is hard enough without that.

    The mere fact that in many jurisdictions cab drivers are leery about picking up drunk fares from party districts perhaps means something.


    Maybe its time people stopped hating cab drivers and the cab industry? I doubt it happens. Seems like a meme around here.
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  43. #43
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    If they don't want to give paying customers a ride the city shouldn't be involved in restricting who can offer the service.

  44. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by SP59 View Post
    If they don't want to give paying customers a ride the city shouldn't be involved in restricting who can offer the service.
    This is your opinion.

    Would you give a ride to drunk out of their mind strangers and allow them in your vehicle with you alone and nobody protecting you? Would you be prepared to do this on an hourly/daily basis never knowing if it was the last ride you ever picked up and you're not going home again to family/friends/loved ones ever?

    This is the reality of cab drivers. A job that nobody wants. While people incessantly carry on here about not enough cabbies.

    Since nobody is paying attention to the issues in this profession I'll repeat this link of cab drivers slain while on duty.

    http://www.taxi-library.org/canada/cant2a1.htm
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  45. #45
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    Apparently restricting the number of drivers hasn't helped so maybe the city should get out of the business of regulating cabs.

  46. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by SP59 View Post
    Apparently restricting the number of drivers hasn't helped so maybe the city should get out of the business of regulating cabs.
    Toronto or Edmonton or both?

    I don't disagree in anycase. But in Edmonton the situation makes more sense the way it is than what was occurring in Toronto. I don't even know what they were thinking in Toronto. But then again one of the reasons I would never live there.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  47. #47
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    How to use Uber on New Year’s Eve without paying a fortune


    http://bgr.com/2014/12/30/uber-new-years-eve-pricing/
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    I went to a friend's place for a New Year's Eve gathering. Called for a cab at 12:55am and they said it will arrive in 10-30 minutes. After 40 minutes I called again but got a busy signal. Kept on calling till 2:30am and couldn't get through. Other people got busy signals from other cab companies too. I finally was able to hitch a ride with another guest as he was going my direction.

    I understand New Year's Eve is the busiest night for the taxi business. But with the threat of Uber, I thought this is the taxi companies' chance to up their game and provide improved service. Instead we got the same crappy service as every year.

    Just wondering if anyone used Uber on New Year's and how was the service?

  49. #49
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    Not a chance

  50. #50

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    Haven't used Uber yet, so can't comment on their services.
    However, I did decide to create an account, in case I wanted to use it.

    The only thing I don't like is that you are not able to remove your credit card info, if you decide you won't be using the app for a while. With all the hacks happening nowadays, I don't like having my CC info floating around. Not sure why they won't let you do that, as other sites like Amazon give you the option to remove CC info.
    So just decided for now to delete my account, since not going to be using Uber right now. Which brings up another problem. You aren't able to delete your account yourself. You have to send them an e-mail to have them delete it.

    I'm sure their service is fine, I can't say anything as I haven't used them yet, but not sure why they don't make the online account more user friendly.
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    Omar Mouallem, a columnist with Metro News, says he used Uber to get home after his New Year’s Eve celebrations.

    “I like apps, I like technology, I like the fact that I can just pull it out and hail a cab…sorry, an Uber, and watch it drive toward me in real time so I know how close they are,” explained Mouallem. “I don’t have to stand outside waiting in the cold for them. So I find it a very convenient way to get home.”

    Mouallem admits, however, he had to wait an extra hour to contact Uber in order to avoid paying a ridiculous rate, since the company’s pricing increases dramatically when things get busy.

    “When we first tried to get home at about 3:15 a.m., I looked at the dynamic price rate and the base rate was something like $17.50 — so just to get into the cab $17.50, that was not for me. So we waited an hour…hour and 15 minutes, and it went back down to the normal rate of $2.75 on the base rate.”

    Mouallem says what usually would be a $15 cab ride ending up costing $9.15 during Uber’s ‘cheaper’ rates, adding he feels fairly safe using the ride sharing service.

    http://www.630ched.com/2015/01/01/ub...h-the-company/
    So Uber was charging $17.50 base rate because it was busy? In future New Year's Eves I will remind myself to take a bus or stay home.

    Even on a regular night I would rather pay an extra $6 to the cab company than download the Uber app and be worried about my personal info, as what Gizmo explained in the above post.

  52. #52
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    re: the question.

    Don't have a cell phone, so no.

    And even if I did have a cell, I still think I'd take a cab. It's what I'm used to.

  53. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by North Guy66 View Post
    Omar Mouallem, a columnist with Metro News, says he used Uber to get home after his New Year’s Eve celebrations.

    “I like apps, I like technology, I like the fact that I can just pull it out and hail a cab…sorry, an Uber, and watch it drive toward me in real time so I know how close they are,” explained Mouallem. “I don’t have to stand outside waiting in the cold for them. So I find it a very convenient way to get home.”

    Mouallem admits, however, he had to wait an extra hour to contact Uber in order to avoid paying a ridiculous rate, since the company’s pricing increases dramatically when things get busy.

    “When we first tried to get home at about 3:15 a.m., I looked at the dynamic price rate and the base rate was something like $17.50 — so just to get into the cab $17.50, that was not for me. So we waited an hour…hour and 15 minutes, and it went back down to the normal rate of $2.75 on the base rate.”

    Mouallem says what usually would be a $15 cab ride ending up costing $9.15 during Uber’s ‘cheaper’ rates, adding he feels fairly safe using the ride sharing service.

    http://www.630ched.com/2015/01/01/ub...h-the-company/
    So Uber was charging $17.50 base rate because it was busy? In future New Year's Eves I will remind myself to take a bus or stay home.

    Even on a regular night I would rather pay an extra $6 to the cab company than download the Uber app and be worried about my personal info, as what Gizmo explained in the above post.
    Isn't that the whole point though? For someone who doesn't have the time of day to wait around for a cab.... they can hail an Uber, at an inflated price due to demand, and get home when they want?

    If people are willing to pay, why not?

    I can recall instances where I would have paid the $17.50 at peak demand, and also instances where I would have waitied as Omar did for the $2.75 rate.
    i love lamp

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    I rarely take taxis. But what I do find intriguing about the Uber model is the app itself. I think that the approach the conventional cabs should take is to get together an equivalent app. Unfortunately, while I was able to order a cab via my iPad one time (I didn't yet have a smartphone), it didn't allow me to check the progress of the cab.

    I just did a quick check for Edmonton taxi apps for Android and came up with something like this:
    Edmonton Taxi Caller provides you with access to all the Taxi services in Edmonton by telephone contact. The application automatically bring up the the contact number of the Taxi service of your choice. This application is handy for Edmonton residents and visitors.
    If you have too much alcohol at an event or party and you need a Taxi. This application is your companion. Download one today
    This is totally beside the point. I hate talking on my phone if I can type something in. If I'm using an app, I don't want to have to move over to the phone function. Besides, as a teetotaler, the implication that I would mainly want to use a cab because I'm drunk is strange marketing.

    Surge pricing, by the way, is the real advantage that Uber can have over the taxi companies. Taxi fares are set and can neither increase or decrease. It's the surge pricing that might make it possible to clear out Whyte and Jasper avenues during big events by getting all the cars on the road even though many drivers would prefer not to do late nights.

    And, yes, I might be willing to pay a lot extra for convenience given that taxis are an occasional expense. I pay a lot extra for other services like Ikea deliveries and think nothing of it (another occasional expense).

    Edited to add: I see that there's something a lot more appropriate for conventional cabs here: https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...Edmonton&hl=en which have more of the booking functions I would like.

    Eve
    Last edited by EveB; 02-01-2015 at 10:23 AM.

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    Rarely use taxis (transit and walking are preferred options) but willing to give Uber a chance.
    Not a fan of regulated professions/industries and protectionism. Let it come here, let the people decide with their wallets. Freedom of choice!

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    I use it and love t
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

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    I see there is a cabbie protest against Uber going on at City Hall today.

    Some news stations were out interviewing people, and I overhead a guy ranting to the news about how nobody would care about Uber if the cab service in this city was reliable.

    I have no dog in this fight, but I can't disagree - if people need something that isn't being fulfilled by existing service, some other business will find a way to provide it.

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    I don't have a dog in the fight either (transit fills most of my needs). But I was also saying to my coworkers this morning that the proper approach is to compete with Uber by improving its own services. Specifically, an app that lets me order a cab in a friction free way. Better licensing so that there can be enough cabs to pick up the party goers. Perhaps even flexibility as far as fares for difficult periods (New Years Eve, for e.g.).

    Eve

  59. #59

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    They were reporting on CHED this morning the taxi drivers were emphasizing the lack of insurance when driving with Uber, and how the taxi drivers has large liability policies to deal with issues. A caller mentioned that some policies may be voided if a driver uses their personal vehicle for commercial purposes; perhaps someone on the board with more of an auto-insurance background can let us know if that is true.

  60. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by EveB View Post
    ...the proper approach is to compete with Uber by improving its own services. Specifically, an app that lets me order a cab in a friction free way.
    I totally agree with you.

    It is often maddening trying to get around in this city without driving yourself to your destination.

  61. #61

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    Im far from a expert. but looking through the standard automobile policy in Alberta.. yes driving for UBER violates this and absolves the insurer from any claims. http://www.finance.alberta.ca/public...olicy_2012.pdf

    Then again from what i hear a proper insurance policy is 6-9 grand for a taxi. so while it is higher.. its not out of this world for someone to get one and drive for Uber.

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    I think the taxi drivers would be better off finding a different focus for their complaints. Worrying about our (the passengers) safety seems a bit disingenuous.

    I think a lot of the Uber draw is how easy it is to order a cab, and how the cab can be tracked. As others have said, if a cab company were able to provide this service then people would probably be okay with it. I know I only use Capital Taxi when I'm going somewhere because they have a taxi stand very close to my house, and I know there's likely a cab sitting there waiting for a call. They're usually here in 5-15 mins from when I get through to the dispatch. Of course getting through can be an issue at times.
    They're going to park their car over there. You're going to park your car over here. Get it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ustauk View Post
    They were reporting on CHED this morning the taxi drivers were emphasizing the lack of insurance when driving with Uber, and how the taxi drivers has large liability policies to deal with issues. A caller mentioned that some policies may be voided if a driver uses their personal vehicle for commercial purposes; perhaps someone on the board with more of an auto-insurance background can let us know if that is true.
    The insurance angle is a lie. Uber has its own insurance in all the countries that it operates with actually have more liability insurance than a typical taxi. You are not exposing yourself to any kind of undue liability when using UberX.

    http://blog.uber.com/CanadaXSafety

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    Quote Originally Posted by North Guy66 View Post
    I went to a friend's place for a New Year's Eve gathering. Called for a cab at 12:55am and they said it will arrive in 10-30 minutes. After 40 minutes I called again but got a busy signal. Kept on calling till 2:30am and couldn't get through. Other people got busy signals from other cab companies too. I finally was able to hitch a ride with another guest as he was going my direction.

    I understand New Year's Eve is the busiest night for the taxi business. But with the threat of Uber, I thought this is the taxi companies' chance to up their game and provide improved service. Instead we got the same crappy service as every year.

    Just wondering if anyone used Uber on New Year's and how was the service?
    A friend used Uber from my house in Riverdale on new year's eve. Called for it around 330 am and it arrived in 6 minutes.

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    Dear Mayor and Council,

    I have been following some of the recent discussions regarding transportation options in the City of Edmonton and doing a little bit of on-line research to supplement my own experiences.

    A few seconds on line yields the following:

    Drive less, live more
    According to the Canadian Automobile Association, the average cost of owning and operating a car is over $9,000 a year. Sharing a ride can help offset these costs.
    Sharing a ride even once a week can help ease the stress of commuting and save you more than 10% of your commuting costs.
    It’s also an efficient and sustainable way to help reduce road congestion and CO2 emissions.

    I’m Heading that Way
    Sharing a ride is as simple as talking to your friends and family, work colleagues and classmates, and social networks.
    Coordinate rides with:

    • Parents with children participating in the same sports teams or group activities or attending the same school;
    • Neighbours to shorten the workday commute by driving to park and ride lots at transit and LRT stations;
    • Family and neighbours for trips to the grocery store, mall, farmers’ market, or festivals;
    • Teammates to share a ride to games and save parking hassle;
    • Friends for a night out to dinner, a show, concert, festival or sports event; or
    • Colleagues to get to and from work once a week or more.

    Park and Ride Carpool Parking
    Five carpool parking stalls are conveniently located at each of the following LRT Park and Ride facilities. Any vehicle with two or more passengers may use these reserved stalls, no registration required.

    This information is what is presently on the City of Edmonton website to promote your Rideshare program. A quick perusal of the City of Edmonton’s Transforming Edmonton visioning document on Sustainable Transportation (
    http://www.edmonton.ca/transportatio...rch=carpooling ) includes the following:

    Go the Extra Mile

    Carpool

    • Reduce your stress and wear-and-tear on your car
    • Try out carpooling a couple of days a week to see if it works for you
    • Use the carpool parking stalls at LRT park-and-ride locations
    • Visit www.carpool.ca to identify potential carpool partners

    And if one visits the suggested www.carpool.ca provided link, that site provides information that includes the following:

    Trans Canada Carpool.ca created www.carpool.ca (Carpool.ca) in 2000 to assist in the formation and management of carpools. The Carpool.ca application uses home & destination locations, driving route and other personal information to help commuters identify potential carpool partners. The system is fast, secure and simple to use.
    Carpool.ca offers these services to commuters in partnership with employers, post-secondary institutions, and regional governments. Partners pay an annual subscription fee that includes a menu of services. The program is hosted, managed and updated by Carpool.ca staff. There is no cost to commuters using this service. Partners have access to their data and have the option of generating administrative and statistical reports.
    To ensure program growth, Carpool.ca has a strong marketing component that includes promotional materials, tools and resources. Sample materials are available upon request. All subscriptions include carpool matching, hosting, database management, and various levels of marketing and administrative support.
    The award winning Carpool.ca program is based on almost two decades of transportation demand management experience and continues to evolve with the invaluable support of our partners.

    These programs were – and still are – supported by the City of Edmonton because they contribute to the options available for citizens of Edmonton to secure transportation. With the exception of stricter licensing and vehicle standards that are self-imposed by them, these programs would seem to be pretty accurate descriptions of UBER and if I chose to pay my neighbor something to cover the cost of his gas and operating expenses, it seems to me to then be completely accurate descriptions of UBER. I fail to see I fail to see how the legality of something is effectively being determined based on who is doing it... If it's an okay activity for me to carry on with my neighbor, why shouldn't it be an okay activity for me to carry on with yours or vice versa?

    I fail to see why the City of Edmonton thinks they need to support a quasi-monopoly where licenses trade for more than the cost of housing and where drivers are lucky to earn minimum wage in vehicles I wouldn’t buy for one of my kids on a bet. An industry that doesn’t always deliver - no pun intended - or follow-up on missed or late calls; or that refuses calls because the destination/pick up point is either too far or too close; or that refuses charge cards at the end of the trip “because the machine is broken” only to find out on being informed that their only other option is a IOU that the machine has miraculously fixed itself…

    No-one is suggesting that cabs no longer play a vital role in meeting our regional transportation requirements but they do so competing successfully against private cars, buses, LRT, DATS, limo services, ridesharing and carpools etc. already. Let them continue to compete successfully with UBER as well.

    Thanks,

    Ken
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

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    Quote Originally Posted by marty View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ustauk View Post
    They were reporting on CHED this morning the taxi drivers were emphasizing the lack of insurance when driving with Uber, and how the taxi drivers has large liability policies to deal with issues. A caller mentioned that some policies may be voided if a driver uses their personal vehicle for commercial purposes; perhaps someone on the board with more of an auto-insurance background can let us know if that is true.
    The insurance angle is a lie. Uber has its own insurance in all the countries that it operates with actually have more liability insurance than a typical taxi. You are not exposing yourself to any kind of undue liability when using UberX.

    http://blog.uber.com/CanadaXSafety
    This is not correct. Uber only provides contingent auto liability insurance coverage. Contingent on the Uber driver having insurance allowing their vehicle to be used for commercial purposes.

    Moreover, by downloading the Uber app, the user explicitly agrees to the following:

    "Uber under no circumstance accepts liability in connection with and/or arising from the transportation services provided by the Transportation Provider or any acts, actions, behaviour, conduct, and/or negligence on the part of the Transportation Provider."

    This negligence no doubt includes neglecting to obtain valid commercial vehicle insurance.

  67. #67

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    Uber states, for Edmonton specifically, that their $5M insurance is
    in addition to any insurance coverage maintained by the driver
    .
    Bolding mine. Doesn't sound like it's contingent on anything. They were able to negotiate that policy with an insurer. I'd like to see more detail, however it appears they're aware of your concerns and have mitigated them.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

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    The sentence before the one you partially quoted clearly states that Uber only provides contingent liability insurance.

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    ^ You've misunderstood what contingency auto insurance is. It does not rely on another policy being in place. It's used when there are other stakeholders such a leasing company or in the case of Uber, a ride share service. It is offered in addition to the driver's insurance but does not depend on that driver's insurance being in place. Surely if this glaring hole in liability existed it would be a major concern for Uber. Do you have an example to support your assertion?

    Rest assured that if you leased a car, wrecked it, and had failed to get insurance, that the company you leased it from has contingency insurance that would cover their loss and go after you. It is the same situation with Uber. Contingency insurance covers any possible gap in insurance coverage, it certainly doesn't create one.

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    http://blog.uber.com/uberXridesharinginsurance
    This page explains it well. I realize that it's talking about how it works in the US but the manner in which the insurance works would be similar here. Uber does not require their drivers to have commercial insurance because their policy covers what theirs won't (commercial use). I would be concerned as a driver that gets injured more so than a passenger but even then it looks as though they've covered the driver's injuries while using the app even if the driver's coverage won't in the US.

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    ^Quoting directly from the Administration report going to Executive Committee next week (Agenda Item 7.2):

    "Uber argues that it is a technology company and not a vehicle for hire or transportation service, and therefore not subject to the licensing requirements. This argument is consistent wherever Uber attempts to set up.

    There are passenger, driver, and public safety considerations with UberX:

    •The drivers and vehicles are unregulated. Thus, a driver’s background check and driving record is not verified by the City.
    •UberX allows drivers with a Class 5 provincial driver’s licence to operate. A Class 5 licence does not permit the transport of passengers for hire; a Class 1, 2, or 4 driver’s licence is required to drive a taxi in Alberta.
    •Vehicles are not required to obtain a mechanical inspection on a regular basis.
    UberX also allows vehicles to carry personal liability insurance rather than commercial insurance, which is unlikely to fully cover accident expenses if the vehicle is being used for hire."

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    ^ That's correct and that is what I said right above and is also fully explained in the link to Uber's site. Uber's insurance covers the driver and passengers while the app is in use. Please just read it. If there are examples of what they are claiming to be true not being true, please share.
    Last edited by marty; 16-01-2015 at 09:27 AM.

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    Surely an UberX driver has gotten into an accident somewhere to know exactly how the insurance company has treated them.
    They're going to park their car over there. You're going to park your car over here. Get it?

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    ^^Please re-read the bolded statement from the Administration report. It's not that difficult to understand.

    Regarding the veracity of Uber's various claims, Attachment 1 to the above report says the following about Uber's track record in Calgary:

    "Calgary’s experience with Uber began in 2013. Calgary investigated the service and found numerous issues with unqualified drivers, drivers with outstanding police warrants, and no evidence of sufficient commercial vehicle insurance."


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    i may be reconsidering uber here after all...

    i'm starting to think that that maybe we shouldn't adjust how we deliver services and options to citizens within the city of edmonton after all.

    and while we're at it, i think maybe we should reconsider some of the previous technology and options we have permitted.

    we shouldn't just cut out uber, we should scrap lrt because it replaces buses and puts drivers out of work.

    and maybe we should scrap the buses and taxis as well because they put a lot of mechanics and factory workers maintaining and manufacturing cars out of work.

    or maybe we should outlaw cars in the city of edmonton because they put an end to the viability of all those stable operators and farmers.

    of course all of those horses put a lot of shoe makers and cobblers out of work so...

    maybe we should all just stay at home and then we wouldn't have to concern ourselves with getting around at all.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

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    ^^ east macauley, why do you keep repeating the same thing? Ive acknowledged that uberX drivers don't carry commercial insurance. Uber acknowledges this as well (please read the link). The issue is whether or not their contingent insurance has been reliable at covering that gap. I don't know the answer but I suspect there would be stories available if it was consistently failing people. Again, if you have an example please share it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by East McCauley View Post
    ^^Please re-read the bolded statement from the Administration report. It's not that difficult to understand.

    Regarding the veracity of Uber's various claims, Attachment 1 to the above report says the following about Uber's track record in Calgary:

    "Calgary’s experience with Uber began in 2013. Calgary investigated the service and found numerous issues with unqualified drivers, drivers with outstanding police warrants, and no evidence of sufficient commercial vehicle insurance."

    well if we aren't going to do things at all because there were some issues doing them somewhere else, we wouldn't have any taxis on the streets of edmonton either:

    "...The woman is the 17th person this year to file a report of sexual assault against a cab driver, or someone posing as a cab driver, police say. Last year, there were 29 incidents in Montreal where a driver assaulted a passenger.

    Last weekend’s incident is raising concerns about the city’s taxi industry, particularly since background checks are conducted on only a fraction of all the taxi drivers..."

    http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/alleged...#ixzz3P0bwhl1O

    when the devil is in the details, you address the details, you don't "cease and desist" altogether. we all want to eliminate spousal violence but no-one is proposing that we try to do it by banning marriage.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  78. #78

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    Just declare "Caveat emptor" and let the market sort it out for themselves. Of course, in the interests of fairness we should allow taxis to operate without regulation or proper insurance either. If people here are comfortable with Uber as it exists the we should get out of the way and let them use it. If you've got a valid drivers licence then you should be good to go.

  79. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by marty View Post
    ^^ east macauley, why do you keep repeating the same thing? Ive acknowledged that uberX drivers don't carry commercial insurance. Uber acknowledges this as well (please read the link). The issue is whether or not their contingent insurance has been reliable at covering that gap. I don't know the answer but I suspect there would be stories available if it was consistently failing people. Again, if you have an example please share it.
    Theres already been widely reported precedents.

    Due to the unique relationship between drivers and Uber theres some gaps in coverage that accidents have revealed.

    There was the case where an Uber driver not driving a passenger at the moment was not covered by Uber because he was not in the act of driving for uber exactly at that time. He was between calls. A 6yr old girl was killed and Uber has to this point evaded liability. The driver did not have commercial coverage, was not required by Uber to have commercial coverage, had in fact had driving priors including dui, other driving charges that the uber check did not reveal. Its a mess of a case but with a young girl dead and inadequate insurance to pay for damages. Tragic case.

    In another case an uber driver was involved in an accident involving another vehicle and then ran over a fire hydrant which dislodged hitting a passenger who sued and flooding several businesses who sued. Uber has again evaded liability in this case. The damages claimed are massive.

    One of the problems with Uber is these accidents had revealed significant difficulties with gaps in insurance, that drivers did not have commercial coverage, were not required to have commercial coverage, and were not properly screened. Also the grey area between Uber being in a contracting vs employer relationship with the drivers is an ongoing legal interpretation and is to present unclear. Uber evades legal responsibility by citing drivers as temporary contractors. Only covering them as mentioned when they have uber hire passengers.

    Uber has made some improvements including increased liability and that drivers here will require commercial insurance but its not clear how Ubers 5M will cover damages in cases and whether or not they will. The precedents are that they haven't. I'm not aware of one case where Uber had accepted any liability or paid out in any accident.

    Next ongoing problems are that drivers are not adequately screened. NO in person interview takes place. Driver fills out a form, basic checks are done, and drivers are approved.
    A gaping hole that continues is that the Police record check done is NOT the check that is required for individuals that will be potentially involved with vulnerable individuals. A vulnerability check is a more indepth check of database and sometimes requiring fingerprinting which can also reveal more information. The vulnerability check of drivers is not done by Uber. That alone is significant. imo a CWIS check should also be done and is not done.
    Last edited by Replacement; 16-01-2015 at 12:31 PM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  80. #80

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    If an Uber driver is between calls.. they would not be covered by Uber insurance.. but they would be covered by their regular insurance as they have no for hire passengers.


    Also i thought the police were trying NOT to have everyone and their dog get Police Record Checks as its a massive, time intensive waste of money in most circumstances. If this continues everyone will just have to have a police record check for anything. if thats the case we mayaswell just keep anyone ever convicted of anything in jail at least then they won't be homeless and jobless.

    (yes i realize that is a slippery slope rant)

  81. #81

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    ^Commercial liability insurance here is 2M afairc. Even in the incidents cited this is not enough to cover all claims and damages.

    Really anybody with any appreciable networth would have to be nuts to take this on.

    That said I realize many will become uber drivers and many customers will use them. People tend not to think about consequence, potential accidents, etc. The first thought is money in pocket and getting a quick ride.

    Your rant on police criminal record checks and vulnerability checks in this is strange at best.

    The very idea of Uber would attract some drivers with a predisposition to offend. Especially given the vulnerable nature of this activity. In fact countless cases have already occurred. The checks even as have not been sufficient.

    This is one of the concerns I expressed awhile ago that the presence of Uber does result in more of a strain on our resources. This is going to result in a lot of part timers getting checks. We're paying for that. So that Uber can exist.
    Last edited by Replacement; 16-01-2015 at 03:21 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    ^Commercial liability insurance here is 2M afairc. Even in the incidents cited this is not enough to cover all claims and damages.

    Really anybody with any appreciable networth would have to be nuts to take this on.

    That said I realize many will become uber drivers and many customers will use them. People tend not to think about consequence, potential accidents, etc. The first thought is money in pocket and getting a quick ride.

    Your rant on police criminal record checks and vulnerability checks in this is strange at best.

    The very idea of Uber would attract some drivers with a predisposition to offend. Especially given the vulnerable nature of this activity. In fact countless cases have already occurred. The checks even as have not been sufficient.

    This is one of the concerns I expressed awhile ago that the presence of Uber does result in more of a strain on our resources. This is going to result in a lot of part timers getting checks. We're paying for that. So that Uber can exist.
    although, per post 77, that really only puts uber drivers - and us - on an even footing with taxi drivers, not a disadvantage.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  83. #83

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    I have no idea what you mean there Ken. Commercial drivers require a Police check and in most cases a Vulnerability Police check. afairc this is not required for regular class 5 drivers.

    Its not the same dynamic as cab drivers either, its not the same at all. Because a prospective cab driver isn't nearly as likely part time or a temp, or casual. The prospective cab drivers that obtain police checks are a pretty finite number.. A lot more people would be potential Uber drivers and just sporadically try it out meanwhile tying up police resources getting spurious checks.

    Could you explain?
    Last edited by Replacement; 16-01-2015 at 05:15 PM.
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  84. #84

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    There was the case where an Uber driver not driving a passenger at the moment was not covered by Uber because he was not in the act of driving for uber exactly at that time. He was between calls. A 6yr old girl was killed and Uber has to this point evaded liability. The driver did not have commercial coverage, was not required by Uber to have commercial coverage, had in fact had driving priors including dui, other driving charges that the uber check did not reveal. Its a mess of a case but with a young girl dead and inadequate insurance to pay for damages. Tragic case.
    When not carrying a passenger, they're just a car on the road like any other car on the road. Nothing to see here other than another vehicle accident.

    In another case an uber driver was involved in an accident involving another vehicle and then ran over a fire hydrant which dislodged hitting a passenger who sued and flooding several businesses who sued. Uber has again evaded liability in this case. The damages claimed are massive.
    Uber's liability aside, this is exactly what the contingency insurance coverage is for.

    So you provided a whole 2 incidents, neither of which are exactly difficult to figure out. The crime and other "at fault" stats on Edmonton's regulated taxi service are not small by any means. The worst part is, because there's no tracking, most incidents don't get reported. Drunk girl raped by cabbie? She likely doesn't even know which cab company drove her home, let alone which cab, or which driver. Same thing if they rob you. It happens, a lot.

    Uber has insurance. You always know who your driver is, and they always know who their passenger is. It's a better system.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  85. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    I have no idea what you mean there Ken. Commercial drivers require a Police check and in most cases a Vulnerability Police check. afairc this is not required for regular class 5 drivers.

    Its not the same dynamic as cab drivers either, its not the same at all. Because a prospective cab driver isn't nearly as likely part time or a temp, or casual. The prospective cab drivers that obtain police checks are a pretty finite number.. A lot more people would be potential Uber drivers and just sporadically try it out meanwhile tying up police resources getting spurious checks.

    Could you explain?
    from the quoted article (again):

    Last weekend’s incident is raising concerns about the city’s taxi industry, particularly since background checks are conducted on only a fraction of all the taxi drivers...
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  86. #86

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    There was the case where an Uber driver not driving a passenger at the moment was not covered by Uber because he was not in the act of driving for uber exactly at that time. He was between calls. A 6yr old girl was killed and Uber has to this point evaded liability. The driver did not have commercial coverage, was not required by Uber to have commercial coverage, had in fact had driving priors including dui, other driving charges that the uber check did not reveal. Its a mess of a case but with a young girl dead and inadequate insurance to pay for damages. Tragic case.
    When not carrying a passenger, they're just a car on the road like any other car on the road. Nothing to see here other than another vehicle accident.

    In another case an uber driver was involved in an accident involving another vehicle and then ran over a fire hydrant which dislodged hitting a passenger who sued and flooding several businesses who sued. Uber has again evaded liability in this case. The damages claimed are massive.
    Uber's liability aside, this is exactly what the contingency insurance coverage is for.

    So you provided a whole 2 incidents, neither of which are exactly difficult to figure out. The crime and other "at fault" stats on Edmonton's regulated taxi service are not small by any means. The worst part is, because there's no tracking, most incidents don't get reported. Drunk girl raped by cabbie? She likely doesn't even know which cab company drove her home, let alone which cab, or which driver. Same thing if they rob you. It happens, a lot.

    Uber has insurance. You always know who your driver is, and they always know who their passenger is. It's a better system.
    Theres not one known reported instance, not one, where Uber has paid out in ANY accident case.

    The 5M Uber insurance is a red herring. About as surreal as the Safeway Oilers "If any Oiler scores 5 goals in a game." contest.

    Heres one difference. If you take a ride in a Cab your driving with a Cab Driver that has likely been driving cabs for years and with an accountable firm they are driving for. So if theres been reports against the driver, cab company, theres more probability these would be acted on or known. So in essense a cab driver that has picked up thousands of customers is less of an obvious unknown than a random Uber driver that signed up yesterday and is relatively speaking a complete unknown. A cab driver is also driving a cab as their INCOME. In most cases sole income. So less probability a cab driver would take an offensive or criminal action to jeopardize their employment.

    Not the case at all with Uber.

    Uber rape and assault stories? they happen a lot. (just to coin your phrase.)

    It should be obvious which one would be the greater risk.

    Theres been countless Uber Rape, assault related reports. I could quote uber stories all day.

    http://www.cnet.com/news/whos-really...-an-uber-ride/

    ps please explain how its an advantage that an Uber driver knows who you are? Especially since there has been precedent where Uber drivers have threatened passengers not to report. In what way would vulnerable individuals. want uber driver to know who they are and any details whatsoever. From a rider perspective this is a clear disadvantage in their system.
    Last edited by Replacement; 16-01-2015 at 06:05 PM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  87. #87

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    I have no idea what you mean there Ken. Commercial drivers require a Police check and in most cases a Vulnerability Police check. afairc this is not required for regular class 5 drivers.

    Its not the same dynamic as cab drivers either, its not the same at all. Because a prospective cab driver isn't nearly as likely part time or a temp, or casual. The prospective cab drivers that obtain police checks are a pretty finite number.. A lot more people would be potential Uber drivers and just sporadically try it out meanwhile tying up police resources getting spurious checks.

    Could you explain?
    from the quoted article (again):

    Last weekend’s incident is raising concerns about the city’s taxi industry, particularly since background checks are conducted on only a fraction of all the taxi drivers...
    How is that remotely relevant to the Edmonton discussion?

    I'm looking at the Edmonton Cab requirement application PDF right now. Police security check no older than 60days is required. For ALL enlisting Cab drivers.

    Heres some other differences not required of Uber drivers;

    Claims experience record (would indicate any driving claims against driver in last 3yrs)

    Proof of English competency exam.

    Road Safety and City knowledge exam

    Completion of Defensive driver training

    AMA driver evaluation

    1Day Computer training orientation

    3day new cab driver training course.

    Specific Cab driver road test.

    Meeting with supervisor to screen candidate after all prerequisites have been completed.

    Ongoing supervision and monitoring.


    Uber doesn't have anything close to this process and at no point in uber training is there even a face to face screening. none.
    Last edited by Replacement; 16-01-2015 at 06:30 PM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  88. #88

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Theres not one known reported instance, not one, where Uber has paid out in ANY accident case.

    Heres one difference. If you take a ride in a Cab your driving with a Cab Driver that has likely been driving cabs for years and with an accountable firm they are driving for. So if theres been reports against the driver, cab company, theres more probability these would be acted on or known. So in essense a cab driver that has picked up thousands of customers is less of an obvious unknown than a random Uber driver that signed up yesterday and is relatively speaking a complete unknown. A cab driver is also driving a cab as their INCOME. In most cases sole income. So less probability a cab driver would take an offensive or criminal action to jeopardize their employment.

    Not the case at all with Uber.

    Uber rape and assault stories? they happen a lot. (just to coin your phrase.)

    ps please explain how its an advantage that an Uber driver knows who you are? Especially since there has been precedent where Uber drivers have threatened passengers not to report. In what way would vulnerable individuals. want uber driver to know who they are and any details whatsoever. From a rider perspective this is a clear disadvantage in their system.
    You have such a hard on for cabbies that you can't see reality.

    To your first point: Uber has not paid out. Why would they? They're not the insurer. If an Edmonton cab company gets sued, their insurance pays out, just like Uber's does.

    I don't trust an Edmonton cab driver any more than an Uber cab driver. I actually trust the Uber guy more, because I know who they are. They know I know who they are. They know who I am. I know they know who I am. And it's all logged. That cab? I don't know who they are. They don't know who I am. If I pay cash there's absolutely no record of my being there. Almost every single person I know has been a victim of a crime by a cab driver. In the very few instances where they were able to identify the cab, it's been dealt with. If they can't remember the cab or driver, it goes nowhere. That's impossible with Uber. It's recorded. You have that info.

    Uber drivers knowing who you are is important - it prevents violence against drivers. Bad users get blacklisted from the service. If the driver arrives and the person waiting is not who ordered the car, they leave.

    I bet if the regulated cabs had this, you'd be spouting off all the benefits, as you should. They should have this. In case you're blind (you are), you'd notice we all want the regulated cab option to pick up their game. Just copy Uber's app and high level of service wholesale, and Uber doesn't exist anymore. We all win.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  89. #89

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    The only incident I have been to court for with cab companies asked me specifically if that person was the driver. I had no idea. The only thing I knew about the cab driver who commuted the offence was it was a coop taxi. And the cab number. That's it. With Uber I would have had that persons name picture and vehical. I'm pretty sure they let off the cab driver with a lesser sentace because I could not prove that that particular person was driving just that it was that specific cab.

  90. #90

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    Yeah, Uber is totally trustworthy.

    Uber's dirty tricks quantified: Rival counts 5,560 canceled rides

    Uber employees have ordered and canceled more than 5,000 rides from rival Lyft since last October, according to new data provided by Lyft. The data was obtained at CNNMoney's request when reporting another story on the companies' competition.

    It's the latest in a pattern of aggressive and questionable tactics by Uber to control the car-on-demand market, according to rivals.
    And it's not just a rogue employee or two: Lyft claims 177 Uber employees around the country have booked and canceled rides in that time frame.

    http://money.cnn.com/2014/08/11/tech...requests-lyft/
    And

    Uber Exec In Hot Water After Suggesting A Journalist Smear Campaign

    Sarah Lacy published a story on Oct. 22 expressing her outrage about a recent Uber promotion advertising "hot chick" drivers. The app offered photos of lingerie-clad women who could be selected and hired by clients, not unlike the business model of an escort service. Lacy says in her post that the promotion fueled her decision to delete the Uber app from her phone.

    The promotion has since been removed from the Uber website. Screenshots of the ad can be found here in an October Buzzfeed article.

    Monday's piece in Buzzfeed says Michael described his idea for uncovering personal details about Lacy and other journalists.

    Over dinner, he outlined the notion of spending "a million dollars" to hire four top opposition researchers and four journalists. That team could, he said, help Uber fight back against the press — they'd look into "your personal lives, your families," and give the media a taste of its own medicine.

    http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/...smear-campaign

  91. #91

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    ^^^ Maybe read what I wrote. Yeah, its some dubious benefit for uber customers when the largely unscreened person sent out to pick them up rapes, physically assaults them and then threatens to kill them if they ever report it and knows who the passenger is.

    Which has occurred.


    People should research this a little more before automatically assuming its safer.

    your next curious statement is that "Everybody you know has been a victim of a crime by a cab driver"

    Um, yeah, sure..

    If Uber operates here you're sure to see a lot worse as a lot of jurisdictions have already found out.
    Last edited by Replacement; 16-01-2015 at 07:02 PM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  92. #92

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    Just a small amount of the uber controversies. The only question being how this platform still exists.

    http://time.com/3592098/uber-controversy/
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Just declare "Caveat emptor" and let the market sort it out for themselves. Of course, in the interests of fairness we should allow taxis to operate without regulation or proper insurance either. If people here are comfortable with Uber as it exists the we should get out of the way and let them use it. If you've got a valid drivers licence then you should be good to go.
    Most Uber drivers have only a class 5 license which does not allow them to use their vehicle for commercial purposes. Apart from this I agree with your point. Vehicle for hire rules should be the same for everyone.

    If you don't like the existing Vehicle for Hire Bylaw lobby City Council to change it or even repeal it. There is an opportunity at Executive Committee next week to do exactly that.

    Until it is changed or repealed, the City should enforce the Bylaw, and all Edmontonians should obey it. Since when has it become okay to only obey the City Bylaws one agrees with?

  94. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    I have no idea what you mean there Ken. Commercial drivers require a Police check and in most cases a Vulnerability Police check. afairc this is not required for regular class 5 drivers.

    Its not the same dynamic as cab drivers either, its not the same at all. Because a prospective cab driver isn't nearly as likely part time or a temp, or casual. The prospective cab drivers that obtain police checks are a pretty finite number.. A lot more people would be potential Uber drivers and just sporadically try it out meanwhile tying up police resources getting spurious checks.

    Could you explain?
    from the quoted article (again):

    Last weekend’s incident is raising concerns about the city’s taxi industry, particularly since background checks are conducted on only a fraction of all the taxi drivers...
    How is that remotely relevant to the Edmonton discussion?

    I'm looking at the Edmonton Cab requirement application PDF right now. Police security check no older than 60days is required. For ALL enlisting Cab drivers.

    Heres some other differences not required of Uber drivers;

    Claims experience record (would indicate any driving claims against driver in last 3yrs)

    Proof of English competency exam.

    Road Safety and City knowledge exam

    Completion of Defensive driver training

    AMA driver evaluation

    1Day Computer training orientation

    3day new cab driver training course.

    Specific Cab driver road test.

    Meeting with supervisor to screen candidate after all prerequisites have been completed.

    Ongoing supervision and monitoring.


    Uber doesn't have anything close to this process and at no point in uber training is there even a face to face screening. none.
    uber doesn't have anything close to this process? i don't take taxis often but I take them regularly. and i would have failed some of them on every one of those "tests" and safeguards in terms of the quality of the ride and the performance of the driver. it may well be "the process" but it certainly isn't infallible in ensuring the timely delivery of a quality product. there are some jurisdictions where uber has had some issues. there are some where taxis have issues. if you are confident we do a better job with taxis, then you should be comfortable we can do a better job with uber other than saying no. washington dc has already enacted legislation that we could pretty much cut and paste as a start...
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  95. #95

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    ^Or being that I took the effort to print out what I could right from Edmonton cabs application pdf form you could say thanks for the information and that you were wrong..

    Your point was that Cab drivers here aren't all screened either and that most haven't had police security checks. You weakly cited a Montreal article for some reason in support of that notion as if it had any applicability at all to what occurs here.

    I corrected your error and you moved goalposts.

    Please go directly to jail and pay $50 or roll 3X to get out...
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  96. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    ^Or being that I took the effort to print out what I could right from Edmonton cabs application pdf form you could say thanks for the information and that you were wrong..

    Your point was that Cab drivers here aren't all screened either and that most haven't had police security checks. You weakly cited a Montreal article for some reason in support of that notion as if it had any applicability at all to what occurs here.

    I corrected your error and you moved goalposts.

    Please go directly to jail and pay $50 or roll 3X to get out...
    if you look at the city's taxi licensing requirements - for driver's, not for cars - the required information is the same as that shown on edmonton cabs form. the city's form also includes the criteria for assessing that information in determining whether a license is to be issued or not. that would be the following:

    Criteria used to review driving records to determine eligibility for Taxi Driver, Limousine Driver or Shuttle Vehicle Driver’s licence. Please note that licences can be denied if:

    1) the drivers abstract isn’t for a Class 1, 2 or 4 licence or is showing an error
    2) there are 4 or more moving convictions in the last licence period or year
    3) there are 3 or more moving convictions following a defensive driving course in the last licence period
    or year
    4) there are 2 or more moving convictions following a demerit suspension in the last period or year
    5) there is any conviction in the last licence period or year which involves dangerous driving, alcohol
    related suspensions or of a value exceeding 6 demerit points
    Criteria used to review criminal activity to determine eligibility for Taxi Driver, Limousine Driver or Shuttle Vehicle driver licence. Please note that licences can be denied for any one of the following:
    1) 3 or more convictions in preceding 3 years, up to 10 or more convictions in the preceding 10 years
    2) 2 or more convictions involving fraud, theft or break & enter, in the past 3 years
    3) any convictions involving major acts of violence (murder, sex offence, attempted murder) in the
    previous 5 years
    4) any convictions related to assault in the previous 5 years
    5) any drug trafficking related convictions in the previous 5 years
    6) any convictions involving the use or possession for weapons in the previous 5 years
    7) any repeat conviction of a similar nature when such occurs within 2 years of each other
    ***Applicant will be evaluated using the indicated criteria, however the Chief Licence Inspector reserves the right to accept or deny an application or place conditions on any licence, if in his opinion such action is warranted.

    please note the preamble "can be denied", not "must be denied" and the reserved rights in the postscript which provide for the "reserved right to accept or deny".

    all in all not the most inspiring set of minimum criteria that should be - but not necessarily have to be - met. can i get out of jail now?
    Last edited by kcantor; 17-01-2015 at 01:17 AM.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  97. #97

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    Aww man, my last murder was 4 years ago. Gotta wait another 12 months before I can be a real cab driver.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  98. #98

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    ^Or being that I took the effort to print out what I could right from Edmonton cabs application pdf form you could say thanks for the information and that you were wrong..

    Your point was that Cab drivers here aren't all screened either and that most haven't had police security checks. You weakly cited a Montreal article for some reason in support of that notion as if it had any applicability at all to what occurs here.

    I corrected your error and you moved goalposts.

    Please go directly to jail and pay $50 or roll 3X to get out...
    if you look at the city's taxi licensing requirements - for driver's, not for cars - the required information is the same as that shown on edmonton cabs form. the city's form also includes the criteria for assessing that information in determining whether a license is to be issued or not. that would be the following:

    Criteria used to review driving records to determine eligibility for Taxi Driver, Limousine Driver or Shuttle Vehicle Driver’s licence. Please note that licences can be denied if:

    1) the drivers abstract isn’t for a Class 1, 2 or 4 licence or is showing an error
    2) there are 4 or more moving convictions in the last licence period or year
    3) there are 3 or more moving convictions following a defensive driving course in the last licence period
    or year
    4) there are 2 or more moving convictions following a demerit suspension in the last period or year
    5) there is any conviction in the last licence period or year which involves dangerous driving, alcohol
    related suspensions or of a value exceeding 6 demerit points
    Criteria used to review criminal activity to determine eligibility for Taxi Driver, Limousine Driver or Shuttle Vehicle driver licence. Please note that licences can be denied for any one of the following:
    1) 3 or more convictions in preceding 3 years, up to 10 or more convictions in the preceding 10 years
    2) 2 or more convictions involving fraud, theft or break & enter, in the past 3 years
    3) any convictions involving major acts of violence (murder, sex offence, attempted murder) in the
    previous 5 years
    4) any convictions related to assault in the previous 5 years
    5) any drug trafficking related convictions in the previous 5 years
    6) any convictions involving the use or possession for weapons in the previous 5 years
    7) any repeat conviction of a similar nature when such occurs within 2 years of each other
    ***Applicant will be evaluated using the indicated criteria, however the Chief Licence Inspector reserves the right to accept or deny an application or place conditions on any licence, if in his opinion such action is warranted.

    please note the preamble "can be denied", not "must be denied" and the reserved rights in the postscript which provide for the "reserved right to accept or deny".

    all in all not the most inspiring set of minimum criteria that should be - but not necessarily have to be - met. can i get out of jail now?
    Given that you'd move goalposts and write War and Peace to avoid detection and penitence I think so and just based on your evasive scrambling ability. Normally you'd write a 3 pager nobody else could parse at this point.

    ps I'm on to you. j/k

    Have a good weekend
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  99. #99

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    Aww man, my last murder was 4 years ago. Gotta wait another 12 months before I can be a real cab driver.
    You should apply for ETS then in the meantime. Any experience with driving busses uphill in glare ice conditions with worn all seasons? Recruiters may be in your area now. Act quickly before this limited time opportunity ends.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  100. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    ^Or being that I took the effort to print out what I could right from Edmonton cabs application pdf form you could say thanks for the information and that you were wrong..

    Your point was that Cab drivers here aren't all screened either and that most haven't had police security checks. You weakly cited a Montreal article for some reason in support of that notion as if it had any applicability at all to what occurs here.

    I corrected your error and you moved goalposts.

    Please go directly to jail and pay $50 or roll 3X to get out...
    if you look at the city's taxi licensing requirements - for driver's, not for cars - the required information is the same as that shown on edmonton cabs form. the city's form also includes the criteria for assessing that information in determining whether a license is to be issued or not. that would be the following:

    Criteria used to review driving records to determine eligibility for Taxi Driver, Limousine Driver or Shuttle Vehicle Driver’s licence. Please note that licences can be denied if:

    1) the drivers abstract isn’t for a Class 1, 2 or 4 licence or is showing an error
    2) there are 4 or more moving convictions in the last licence period or year
    3) there are 3 or more moving convictions following a defensive driving course in the last licence period
    or year
    4) there are 2 or more moving convictions following a demerit suspension in the last period or year
    5) there is any conviction in the last licence period or year which involves dangerous driving, alcohol
    related suspensions or of a value exceeding 6 demerit points
    Criteria used to review criminal activity to determine eligibility for Taxi Driver, Limousine Driver or Shuttle Vehicle driver licence. Please note that licences can be denied for any one of the following:
    1) 3 or more convictions in preceding 3 years, up to 10 or more convictions in the preceding 10 years
    2) 2 or more convictions involving fraud, theft or break & enter, in the past 3 years
    3) any convictions involving major acts of violence (murder, sex offence, attempted murder) in the
    previous 5 years
    4) any convictions related to assault in the previous 5 years
    5) any drug trafficking related convictions in the previous 5 years
    6) any convictions involving the use or possession for weapons in the previous 5 years
    7) any repeat conviction of a similar nature when such occurs within 2 years of each other
    ***Applicant will be evaluated using the indicated criteria, however the Chief Licence Inspector reserves the right to accept or deny an application or place conditions on any licence, if in his opinion such action is warranted.

    please note the preamble "can be denied", not "must be denied" and the reserved rights in the postscript which provide for the "reserved right to accept or deny".

    all in all not the most inspiring set of minimum criteria that should be - but not necessarily have to be - met. can i get out of jail now?
    Given that you'd move goalposts and write War and Peace to avoid detection and penitence I think so and just based on your evasive scrambling ability. Normally you'd write a 3 pager nobody else could parse at this point.

    ps I'm on to you. j/k

    Have a good weekend
    damn... you're on to me.

    you have a good weekend too.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

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