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Thread: Zipper Merging, Late Merge in construction zones

  1. #1

    Default Zipper Merging, Late Merge in construction zones

    Possibly years ago, somewhere else on c2e, I mentioned that in construction zones, accident areas, etc. people should 'merge at the barrier/sign and not before' because early mergers essentially get pushed back further and further by those that drive past the forming flow through lane and get in ahead of them.

    Well, on CBC radio this morning, there was a piece about needing to educate Edmontonians about how to merge properly and they called it "zipper" merging. That in some countries it's the law... Check CBC radio for videos - they say they are posting them.



    Note: just two days ago I pulled off the Anthony Henday and followed the road onto 87th ave east bound right into road construction. Traffic was backed up right over the overpass in the inside(left) lane. I drove in the empty merge lane past waiting and early merging cars then down the empty right lane, right up to the merge sign and then waited for someone to let me in. Five or six cars deliberately / aggressively prevented any opening from forming to let me merge at the sign, possibly because they'd already let loads of cars get in, in front of them or they themselves had merged too soon.

    What I hate though is people that drive on the shoulder to get past waiting cars. However, it's often too bad that two lanes don't form where the shoulder could be used to get around an obstacle, say an accident on the highway.



    I think the should use "Merge at the Barrier" or "Merge at the Sign" for planned lane closures.

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_merge


    ~
    Last edited by KC; 24-06-2014 at 02:52 PM. Reason: Add barrier, spelled too as two - can you believe it!

  2. #2

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    merging is one of the worst driving bad practices I see in Edmonton. Between the people that don't know how to merge, either from an exit ramp, or when a lane closure due to construction, to the dumbasses that won't allow others to merge in front... because you know, you're going to get so far being that one car ahead


    It's easy people. If you can put on your pants, you can merge properly.


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    Late merging actually moves the most amount of cars on a road. I used to be of the mindset that people were cutting in, but after thinking it over late merging makes perfect sense.

    In my hypothetical situation to make the numbers easy ... if we say the construction zone is 1 mile and the merge signs are a mile away the road goes from 2 to 1 lane, then which would move more traffic
    1 mile of 2 lanes + 1 mile of 1 lane or
    2 miles of 1 lane?

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    The best way is to merge at the sign. I've worked and driven all over the US and that's how it's done down there. As mentioned it's much more efficient to use both lanes of traffic right up to the merge point at the construction area. That's what I do in Edmonton and people honk and give me the finger. Some people just don't get it. So I agree an education campaign is needed. Thx KC!
    It's not EIA it's YEG

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    Quote Originally Posted by sundance View Post
    Late merging actually moves the most amount of cars on a road. I used to be of the mindset that people were cutting in, but after thinking it over late merging makes perfect sense.

    In my hypothetical situation to make the numbers easy ... if we say the construction zone is 1 mile and the merge signs are a mile away the road goes from 2 to 1 lane, then which would move more traffic
    1 mile of 2 lanes + 1 mile of 1 lane or
    2 miles of 1 lane?
    They generally move the same amount of traffic since the restriction is the choke point/construction zone. Cars can only go so fast and be so close together in the construction zone. If you look at the zipper animation above, the same amount of 'cars' are moving regardless if the zipper connection point was in the middle, top or bottom of the screen.

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    Alas many studies disagree with you ...

    When traffic is heavy and slow, it is actually much safer for motorists to remain in their current lane until the point where traffic can orderly take turns merging which is generally after the “MERGE” sign. Unfortunately, while the safer procedure is legal, it is not what has been taught.
    ...
    By creating two full lanes of traffic, we reduce the difference in speeds between the two lanes. Therefore, vehicles generally do not have a reason to switch lanes, and if they do decide to switch, then the traffic is traveling approximately the same speed in both lanes making the maneuver is much easier and safer...
    http://www.dot.state.mn.us/trafficen...rge-zipper.pdf


    Results of the computer simulations show ed the late merge produced a statistically significant increase in throughput volume for only the 3-to-1-lane closure configuration and was beneficial across all factors for this type of closure. For the 2-to-1 and 3-to-2 lane closure configurations, the late merge in creased throughput when the percentage of heavy vehicles was
    large.
    http://www.virginiadot.org/vtrc/main.../pdf/05-r6.pdf
    http://www.edmunds.com/driving-tips/...sidezoomer.htm
    Last edited by sundance; 24-06-2014 at 09:48 AM.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by nobleea View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sundance View Post
    Late merging actually moves the most amount of cars on a road. I used to be of the mindset that people were cutting in, but after thinking it over late merging makes perfect sense.

    In my hypothetical situation to make the numbers easy ... if we say the construction zone is 1 mile and the merge signs are a mile away the road goes from 2 to 1 lane, then which would move more traffic
    1 mile of 2 lanes + 1 mile of 1 lane or
    2 miles of 1 lane?
    They generally move the same amount of traffic since the restriction is the choke point/construction zone. Cars can only go so fast and be so close together in the construction zone. If you look at the zipper animation above, the same amount of 'cars' are moving regardless if the zipper connection point was in the middle, top or bottom of the screen.
    And it's fairer. People that merge early have to expect that others will go in ahead of them pushing early mergers relative position back in the line.

    Funny how things get bass awkward. As an aside, I was on QEII a few days ago and for about 25 km north of Calgary the number of vehicles in the left lane outnumbered those in the right hand lane by 8 to 10 to one. No one was treating the left hand lane as a passing lane and moving into the right hand lane. (The large number of semis in the right hand lane doing the speed limit was really screwing up the smooth flow of traffic.)

  8. #8

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    A DIY Instructional video...

    http://youtu.be/vLVMW8KnfBE

    It makes a good point - merge when safe and early if the traffic is flowing fast. (i.e. a lineup hasn't formed.) Otherwise, as they said (EMPHASIS added): "RESIST THE URGE TO MERGE EARLY."
    Above, I was only thinking of those times when traffic has obviously slowed to a crawl in front of you.
    Last edited by KC; 24-06-2014 at 10:11 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nobleea View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sundance View Post
    Late merging actually moves the most amount of cars on a road. I used to be of the mindset that people were cutting in, but after thinking it over late merging makes perfect sense.

    In my hypothetical situation to make the numbers easy ... if we say the construction zone is 1 mile and the merge signs are a mile away the road goes from 2 to 1 lane, then which would move more traffic
    1 mile of 2 lanes + 1 mile of 1 lane or
    2 miles of 1 lane?
    They generally move the same amount of traffic since the restriction is the choke point/construction zone. Cars can only go so fast and be so close together in the construction zone. If you look at the zipper animation above, the same amount of 'cars' are moving regardless if the zipper connection point was in the middle, top or bottom of the screen.
    The longer the single lane portion is the farther back the zone of slow moving traffic is pushed and the sooner drivers have to slow down when they reach that zone.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

  10. #10

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    "Zipper" is quite good choice of words because it also highlights the yield to one vehicle idea (I'm not sure what they call that - maybe there's a word for it to.)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcgc8kYlPpc

    "After 20 years of unsuccessfully teaching Minnesotans how to do the zipper merge, MN State Trooper Kurt Anderson comes undone."


    Zipper Merge
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcPby71TNC0

    "Most Minnesota motorists start to merge in construction zones as soon as they see warning signs and learn which lane ahead is closed. This driving behavior, called "early merge" can lead to dangerous lane switching, inconsistent driving speeds that cause crashes, long back-ups that block interchanges, and road rage."




    A good article here...

    Attention Minnesota Drivers: Use The Zipper Merge
    September 26, 2012
    excerpts:

    We’ve all been there, road construction forces everybody to get into one lane. Don’t you hate it when one guy waits until the last possible moment to merge, instead of getting in line and waiting his turn?
    Well, guess what? That guy who waits until the last minute is actually doing it right. It’s "...

    "...MnDOT says there is one time when you shouldn’t use the Zipper Merge.
    If traffic is moving at highway speeds and there are no backups — move to the lane that stays open through a construction zone as soon as you can."

    http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2012/0...-zipper-merge/

    ~
    Last edited by KC; 24-06-2014 at 10:22 AM.

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    Oh zipper merging is the most fair method (other methods are as efficient just not as fair). However late zipper merging does give you the highest throughput.

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    "Take turns, Merge here". What could be simpler. The cop knows.
    It's not EIA it's YEG

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    Even more efficient to merge this way if there is a traffic light before the merge point. When the light turns red the 2 lanes of traffic keep moving and merging.
    It's not EIA it's YEG

  14. #14

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    merging is the single most frustrating thing here in Edmonton...people just don't know how.
    Onward and upward

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    ^ you mean im not supposed to come to a complete stop at the beginning of the merge lane and pray that some ***** in the lane over comes to a stop as well to let me in?
    be offended! figure out why later...

  16. #16

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    Why doesn't zippering work will in Edmonton? Because people treat a merge into a single lane like a line at movie theatre or bank. Some drivers view people merging in near where two lanes become one as "budding in line". They will actively obstruct drivers, since they "should have waited there turn" and merged at the "back of the line".

    Zippering should be part of driver training; it makes the most sense, but people need to be taught it, or they'll use other examples in their lives when trying to deal with a single lane of traffic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sundance View Post
    Alas many studies disagree with you ...

    When traffic is heavy and slow, it is actually much safer for motorists to remain in their current lane until the point where traffic can orderly take turns merging which is generally after the “MERGE” sign. Unfortunately, while the safer procedure is legal, it is not what has been taught.
    ...
    By creating two full lanes of traffic, we reduce the difference in speeds between the two lanes. Therefore, vehicles generally do not have a reason to switch lanes, and if they do decide to switch, then the traffic is traveling approximately the same speed in both lanes making the maneuver is much easier and safer...
    http://www.dot.state.mn.us/trafficen...rge-zipper.pdf


    Results of the computer simulations show ed the late merge produced a statistically significant increase in throughput volume for only the 3-to-1-lane closure configuration and was beneficial across all factors for this type of closure. For the 2-to-1 and 3-to-2 lane closure configurations, the late merge in creased throughput when the percentage of heavy vehicles was
    large.
    http://www.virginiadot.org/vtrc/main.../pdf/05-r6.pdf
    http://www.edmunds.com/driving-tips/...sidezoomer.htm
    Those quotes don't disagree with me. They say it's safer and easier, not faster.
    The only time it is faster is in a 3-1 merge, which I have never seen here. Or when there's lots of large trucks, possible I guess.
    I'm not saying it's bad, I would love if everyone did it. But only to reduce stress and anger.

    On the topic of merging, I think a PSA is required to let people know that people on freeways do NOT have the right of way over cars entering on a entry ramp. No one has the right of way. My unofficial rule has been if the entering traffic is going the same speed as the freeway traffic, then they have the right of way. If they are going slower, then the freeway traffic has the right of way. Every personal vehicle on the road today can make it to 80kph on all the on ramps that exist to our freeways.

  18. #18

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    It's not isolated to Edmonton. The Texas Transportation Institute did a study a few years back called "Understanding Road Rage." (You can google it up if you really want a dry read.) They found that one of the most common sources of road rage is poor merging habits, and that road designs can actually make the problem worse.

    In the study they reworked test sections on busy Dallas freeways with new barriers, lines, and signs to promote people to do late, zipper merging. Basically by "dumbing it down" they got most people to merge better, which improved traffic flow and reduced road rage in those test sections of road.

    It's harder to accomplish that in a temporary road construction situation. But I still think some improved signage and barrier placement would probably help.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nobleea View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sundance View Post
    Alas many studies disagree with you ...

    When traffic is heavy and slow, it is actually much safer for motorists to remain in their current lane until the point where traffic can orderly take turns merging which is generally after the “MERGE” sign. Unfortunately, while the safer procedure is legal, it is not what has been taught.
    ...
    By creating two full lanes of traffic, we reduce the difference in speeds between the two lanes. Therefore, vehicles generally do not have a reason to switch lanes, and if they do decide to switch, then the traffic is traveling approximately the same speed in both lanes making the maneuver is much easier and safer...
    http://www.dot.state.mn.us/trafficen...rge-zipper.pdf


    Results of the computer simulations show ed the late merge produced a statistically significant increase in throughput volume for only the 3-to-1-lane closure configuration and was beneficial across all factors for this type of closure. For the 2-to-1 and 3-to-2 lane closure configurations, the late merge in creased throughput when the percentage of heavy vehicles was
    large.
    http://www.virginiadot.org/vtrc/main.../pdf/05-r6.pdf
    http://www.edmunds.com/driving-tips/...sidezoomer.htm
    Those quotes don't disagree with me. They say it's safer and easier, not faster.
    The only time it is faster is in a 3-1 merge, which I have never seen here. Or when there's lots of large trucks, possible I guess.
    I'm not saying it's bad, I would love if everyone did it. But only to reduce stress and anger.

    On the topic of merging, I think a PSA is required to let people know that people on freeways do NOT have the right of way over cars entering on a entry ramp. No one has the right of way. My unofficial rule has been if the entering traffic is going the same speed as the freeway traffic, then they have the right of way. If they are going slower, then the freeway traffic has the right of way. Every personal vehicle on the road today can make it to 80kph on all the on ramps that exist to our freeways.
    This is a significant factor as well:

    We reduce the overall length of the backup by up to 50% (40% is common). While this may not be important in rural areas, it is critical in the metro area where the backups affect other interchanges. Therefore, we reduce the congestion problem for the other interchanges.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ustauk View Post
    Why doesn't zippering work will in Edmonton? Because people treat a merge into a single lane like a line at movie theatre or bank. Some drivers view people merging in near where two lanes become one as "budding in line". They will actively obstruct drivers, since they "should have waited there turn" and merged at the "back of the line".

    Zippering should be part of driver training; it makes the most sense, but people need to be taught it, or they'll use other examples in their lives when trying to deal with a single lane of traffic.
    Exactly, however most of the ones up in front of you are nice people and they let the 'transgressors' in ahead of you. The thing is, ideally everyone would merge at their relative position in the traffic but not everyone sees the construction or other blockages at the same time so people are bound to become perceived 'transgressors', line jumpers, butters-in, or whatever.

    A few years ago I was driving to Calgary, came over the crest of a hill and saw a right lane blockage miles up front of me and moved over right away. I then ended up sitting in a mile or two mile long line up watching literally hundreds of cars continue on past me and merging up in front of me. I hardly moved forward and my time in the lineup likely doubled or tripled over what would have happened had I just stayed in my original lane and driven the mile or two right up to the lane's barriers.

    In my above instance, there's all kinds of legitimate reasons for those that passed me on the right and gotten in ahead of me: they may have been following trucks, thinking the problem was in my lane, knowing how to properly merge in backed up traffic, etc. In fact, I should have pulled out and done it too but didn't because it felt like an immoral thing to do. That's why we need an education campaign too.


    ~
    Last edited by KC; 24-06-2014 at 02:50 PM. Reason: typos

  21. #21

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    Agreed KC. People butt in especially in expensive vehicles like they own the front of the line. These people would never attempt to cut in front of you in a lineup of people at Tim Hortons or at a movie. Put them behind the wheel of an Audi or BMW and they do it all the time. The other week I was in Toronto and a guy in a Mercedes 560 AMG tried to squeeze past me as I merged our of a left lane that was ending in heavy traffic moving at a crawl. He was driving right beside me and squeezed closer and closer expecting me to yield to him on my left. He was on the shoulder that was disappearing and could not squeeze forward anymore because of the curb. I glared at him as I laid on my horn as his fender was just inches from mine. He finally stopped when his mirror folded back after it hit mine. He rolled down the passenger window and yelled some obscenities that he had the right and I told him he should call a cop.

    He was forced to fall behind me and then I let an 18 wheeler with a 53 ft trailer in from my right and moved into his void and around him. The Mercedes ended up stuck behind the semi for quite some time.

    I think the main problem is all the rubber neckers who act like sheep, some texting while driving in a construction zone, others looking at the accident or construction, anything other than looking ahead. I see it all the time. The guy ahead of you just going slow even past the restriction with the car ahead of him already gone far ahead. You get pass these sloths and a you look in your rear view mirror, all the half asleep drivers are slowly getting up to speed hundreds of meters behind you. When I go through such areas I am focused on what is ahead of me, I don't speed and defensively drive. Once past the narrows I try to get back up to speed ASAP.

    You see in places like when they close one lane of a two lane road for repaving for a kilometer or more. The stream of cars now past the merge point are all in a construction zone with only one lane but the line of traffic is wildly separated. Groups of cars properly separated and then big gaps where some timid or rubber necking driver is going much slower than all the rest, backing up traffic well behind them and affecting the merge area.

    http://techcrunch.com/2011/05/12/the...lass-hands-on/

    Proper merging is important but whether it happens well back or at the pinch point has little effect because the real issue is how much traffic passes at what cycle rate through the narrows. This is the proverbial bottle neck. No more sand can get through the hourglass unless more sand travels through the pinch point. It is true that the longer the pinch point, one slow car creates a ripple effect that lasts longer so merging late has the advantage of shortening the effective length of the pinch point. I always watch for the opening with a slow moving truck, a distracted driver who leaves an opening or a timid driver and fill the gap.

    http://blog.nj.com/ledgerupdates/200...ay_30_for.html

    http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/...el-closed.html

    Studies done in the 1960's that were published at the time in Scientific American that were done on the Lincoln Tunnel in NYC of traffic delays and mediation concluded the problems occurred in the tunnel, not in the merge area. That merge was from 4 lanes to 8 toll booths down to two lanes. Studies revealed that a stalled car or sudden stop for even a moment in the tunnel created a ripple effect that worked its way backward and grew larger and longer as drivers were slow to respond to the changes of speed and over reacted and then did not recover. Studies found that if they held cars back momentarily at the tunnel entrance, creating artificial breaks, the ripple effect could be broken and allowed more cars to transit through the tunnel.
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 25-06-2014 at 07:54 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT
    People butt in especially in expensive vehicles like they own the front of the line.
    That's just your own preconceived notion. Do you have any empirical data to back up that claim? I could just as easily claim that jerks in jacked up pickups are the worst offenders. You don't have to own a German car to drive like a jerk.

  23. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT
    People butt in especially in expensive vehicles like they own the front of the line.
    That's just your own preconceived notion. Do you have any empirical data to back up that claim? I could just as easily claim that jerks in jacked up pickups are the worst offenders. You don't have to own a German car to drive like a jerk.
    Are not jacked up pickups "expensive vehicles" as well? I am glad we agree.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post

    That's just your own preconceived notion. Do you have any empirical data to back up that claim? I could just as easily claim that jerks in jacked up pickups are the worst offenders. You don't have to own a German car to drive like a jerk.
    I think we found the fancy German car owner guys! Hehe.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Happily ignoring the ignorant rather than getting in a battle of wits with unarmed opponents.

  25. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Agreed KC. People butt in especially in expensive vehicles like they own the front of the line. These people would never attempt to cut in front of you in a lineup of people at Tim Hortons or at a movie. Put them behind the wheel of an Audi or BMW and they do it all the time. The other week I was in Toronto and a guy in a Mercedes 560 AMG tried to squeeze past me as I merged our of a left lane that was ending in heavy traffic moving at a crawl. He was driving right beside me and squeezed closer and closer expecting me to yield to him on my left. He was on the shoulder that was disappearing and could not squeeze forward anymore because of the curb. I glared at him as I laid on my horn as his fender was just inches from mine. He finally stopped when his mirror folded back after it hit mine. He rolled down the passenger window and yelled some obscenities that he had the right and I told him he should call a cop.

    He was forced to fall behind me and then I let an 18 wheeler with a 53 ft trailer in from my right and moved into his void and around him. The Mercedes ended up stuck behind the semi for quite some time.

    I think the main problem is all the rubber neckers who act like sheep, some texting while driving in a construction zone, others looking at the accident or construction, anything other than looking ahead. I see it all the time. The guy ahead of you just going slow even past the restriction with the car ahead of him already gone far ahead. You get pass these sloths and a you look in your rear view mirror, all the half asleep drivers are slowly getting up to speed hundreds of meters behind you. When I go through such areas I am focused on what is ahead of me, I don't speed and defensively drive. Once past the narrows I try to get back up to speed ASAP.

    You see in places like when they close one lane of a two lane road for repaving for a kilometer or more. The stream of cars now past the merge point are all in a construction zone with only one lane but the line of traffic is wildly separated. Groups of cars properly separated and then big gaps where some timid or rubber necking driver is going much slower than all the rest, backing up traffic well behind them and affecting the merge area.

    http://techcrunch.com/2011/05/12/the...lass-hands-on/

    Proper merging is important but whether it happens well back or at the pinch point has little effect because the real issue is how much traffic passes at what cycle rate through the narrows. This is the proverbial bottle neck. No more sand can get through the hourglass unless more sand travels through the pinch point. It is true that the longer the pinch point, one slow car creates a ripple effect that lasts longer so merging late has the advantage of shortening the effective length of the pinch point. I always watch for the opening with a slow moving truck, a distracted driver who leaves an opening or a timid driver and fill the gap.

    http://blog.nj.com/ledgerupdates/200...ay_30_for.html

    http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/...el-closed.html

    Studies done in the 1960's that were published at the time in Scientific American that were done on the Lincoln Tunnel in NYC of traffic delays and mediation concluded the problems occurred in the tunnel, not in the merge area. That merge was from 4 lanes to 8 toll booths down to two lanes. Studies revealed that a stalled car or sudden stop for even a moment in the tunnel created a ripple effect that worked its way backward and grew larger and longer as drivers were slow to respond to the changes of speed and over reacted and then did not recover. Studies found that if they held cars back momentarily at the tunnel entrance, creating artificial breaks, the ripple effect could be broken and allowed more cars to transit through the tunnel.
    I don't see how overall speed is improved but on a first come first served basis the zipper merge seems fairer if everyone does it as no one is pushed back in the line.

    Saskatoon is trying it and I see a number of articles via Google on their experience.

    Do you Zipper merge
    http://www.cbc.ca/edmontonam/episode...-zipper-merge/


    How to 'zip' through summertime road construction - Technology & Science - CBC News
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/ho...tion-1.1340869

  26. #26

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    I always like to let alternate vehicles in before me. Courtesy on the road is important but don't try to take advantage of the situation. And if I let you in, don't be a sloth and delay everyone behind you or be indecisive after I gave you space and flashed my lights and even waved to you to move in and a friendly toot of the horn and still you hum and haw. That drives me nuts. If I let you in, don't be a zipper jam, get going!

    The concept of zipper merging is NOT part of the traffic barrier polices and procedure manual that the COE has printed.
    http://www.edmonton.ca/transportatio...tionSafety.pdf

    The word zipper is not even mentioned and merge is barely mentioned. How can people know how to zipper merge when there is not even a policy for the Transportation Department?

    If the guys installing the barriers also put cones between the two lanes on the approaches with only the intended zipper point left open, this problem would go away.

    In emergency situations like at a traffic accident, often police do little to mitigate traffic tie ups in Edmonton. In the USA I see police taking proactive approaches. Holding back one lane and directing the other to pass through in blocks of 15 or 20 vehicles. Then alternating the lines for the other traffic. I also have seen police in the USA setting up just two comes and directing traffic to pass in two lanes by jogging over, one into the other lane and the second to jog over to the shoulder.

    Like this
    http://trafficsignstore.com/construction.html
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 25-06-2014 at 09:04 AM.
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  27. #27

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    http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/ho...tion-1.1340869

    If you look at their graphic (I know it is only a graphic) but in the "regular merge" the cars are going through more closely spaced and a more constant speed in the thru lane than their "zipper merge" example.

    IMHO, both styles work if people are taught to be courteous and there is proper signage that each car is expected to let in one other car.
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 25-06-2014 at 09:11 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT
    People butt in especially in expensive vehicles like they own the front of the line.
    That's just your own preconceived notion. Do you have any empirical data to back up that claim? I could just as easily claim that jerks in jacked up pickups are the worst offenders. You don't have to own a German car to drive like a jerk.
    Are not jacked up pickups "expensive vehicles" as well? I am glad we agree.
    No, we don't, I was just using that as an example. I've been cut off by plenty of dummies driving 85 Tercels.

  29. #29

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    So you discriminate against 85 Trecels but not not '76 Datsun B210's? LOL

    Ease up.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  30. #30

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    I think the other issue too is enforcement. The police will be quick to jump on speeders (not saying it's acceptable but that's the least of my issues on the road) but I've never seen the police pull anyone over for cutting someone off or for completely ruining the flow of traffic due to a horrible merge.

  31. #31

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    I know all about how we are supposed to do zipper merges and why. Truly, the dynamics is not hard to understand.

    What the zipperists ignore, however, is simple human psychology. Get in line and wait your turn! -- is ultimately the strongest and most morally justified social commandment.

    Those who break it deserve being chopped off at the knee.

    So no, I have no problem with zipperists being viciously cut off as they steam at the end of the lane in which they had sped past everyone else.

    A society in which the social mores are upheld over queasy individualism beats physical dynamics any day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AShetsen View Post
    I know all about how we are supposed to do zipper merges and why. Truly, the dynamics is not hard to understand.

    What the zipperists ignore, however, is simple human psychology. Get in line and wait your turn! -- is ultimately the strongest and most morally justified social commandment.

    Those who break it deserve being chopped off at the knee.

    So no, I have no problem with zipperists being viciously cut off as they steam at the end of the lane in which they had sped past everyone else.

    A society in which the social mores are upheld over queasy individualism beats physical dynamics any day.

    Amen brother. Try zipping into a supermarket line or a line @ a restaurant.
    I'm having people over later to stare at their phones,if you want to drop by

  33. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by HarjotG01 View Post
    I think the other issue too is enforcement. The police will be quick to jump on speeders (not saying it's acceptable but that's the least of my issues on the road) but I've never seen the police pull anyone over for cutting someone off or for completely ruining the flow of traffic due to a horrible merge.
    Recently some guy in a fancy 4x4 snuck past the merging line and cut in at the last possible time. When he approached the steel plates on the roadway he slowed down from 50 km and crawled over the plates at 10 or 15 km/h backing up traffic and then slowly accelerated. There must have been a 8 second break in traffic becaue of his antics.

    That type of thing affects the thru-put of all the traffic behind him.
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  34. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry N View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by AShetsen View Post
    I know all about how we are supposed to do zipper merges and why. Truly, the dynamics is not hard to understand.

    What the zipperists ignore, however, is simple human psychology. Get in line and wait your turn! -- is ultimately the strongest and most morally justified social commandment.

    Those who break it deserve being chopped off at the knee.

    So no, I have no problem with zipperists being viciously cut off as they steam at the end of the lane in which they had sped past everyone else.

    A society in which the social mores are upheld over queasy individualism beats physical dynamics any day.

    Amen brother. Try zipping into a supermarket line or a line @ a restaurant.
    The two lanes should be about the same length so no one is zipping ahead of everyone else that is waiting their turn. So people should drive as close to the barriers as possible before moving over. Moreover, often it's the left lane that is the flow through lane so if it is treated as a passing lane then there should be less traffic in it in the first place so an ending right lane should easily be able to delay moving until much closer to the barricades.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AShetsen View Post
    I know all about how we are supposed to do zipper merges and why. Truly, the dynamics is not hard to understand.

    What the zipperists ignore, however, is simple human psychology. Get in line and wait your turn! -- is ultimately the strongest and most morally justified social commandment.

    Those who break it deserve being chopped off at the knee.

    So no, I have no problem with zipperists being viciously cut off as they steam at the end of the lane in which they had sped past everyone else.

    A society in which the social mores are upheld over queasy individualism beats physical dynamics any day.
    The thing about social mores is that they're not innate, they're constructed. While we do have a innate sense of fairness we don't have an innate sense of lining up. Bus stops are a good example. In Edmonton we do the the functional equivalent of a zipper merge when boarding buses while in Montréal, I was surprised to find, people formed long snaking queues at the bus stops. For bus stops I'm not sure which is more efficient but the social behaviour is clearly arbitrary.

    In terms of measurable fairness in traffic zipper merging wins as it doesn't force drivers to try and guess when is the most opportune time to merge that annoys the fewest people in the other lane while minimizing delay. Not zipper merging also inconveniences people not even on the road in question by vastly increasing the length of the congestion.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

  36. #36

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    One problem with zipper merging is that you do not realize often what is ahead. On some roads where you need to get into a lane for an off-ramp or due to construction, their may be only one lane but the adjacent lanes may be still viable for through traffic. Too many people try to pass the line and then try to force their way into line into backed up traffic. They block the lane they want to leave and this creates backups in more lanes and frustration for other drivers who are not taking the off-ramp or are bypassing the obstruction.

    Anyone on Capilano and WGD heading to a hockey game has seen the mess that this creates in all lanes.
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    Actually if you are paying attention to the signs and to the traffic you should always realize what is ahead. They even teach it in the driver's handbook...
    http://www.transportation.alberta.ca/2034.htm
    ---
    The beauty of zipper merging, or why you should drive ruder
    http://arstechnica.com/cars/2014/07/...d-drive-ruder/

  38. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by sundance View Post
    Actually if you are paying attention to the signs and to the traffic you should always realize what is ahead. They even teach it in the driver's handbook...
    http://www.transportation.alberta.ca/2034.htm
    ---
    The beauty of zipper merging, or why you should drive ruder
    http://arstechnica.com/cars/2014/07/...d-drive-ruder/
    I do pay attention, it is the other doofuses that don't and clog all the lanes.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  39. #39
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    ^Says Everybody.

  40. #40

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    The province is on board with updated merge signage standards for high-volume (i.e. congested), multi-lane construction sites. The following signs would typically be seen:
    - zipper merge ahead
    - use both lanes
    - alternate merge xx m ahead
    - begin merge
    - merge (in case you missed the other signs?)

    http://www.transportation.alberta.ca...ction/DB85.pdf

    It would be great to see similar standards locally.

  41. #41

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    BUMPED
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    I think the main problem is all the rubber neckers who act like sheep, some texting while driving in a construction zone, others looking at the accident or construction, anything other than looking ahead. I see it all the time. The guy ahead of you just going slow even past the restriction with the car ahead of him already gone far ahead. You get pass these sloths and a you look in your rear view mirror, all the half asleep drivers are slowly getting up to speed hundreds of meters behind you. When I go through such areas I am focused on what is ahead of me, I don't speed and defensively drive. Once past the narrows I try to get back up to speed ASAP.

    You see in places like when they close one lane of a two lane road for repaving for a kilometer or more. The stream of cars now past the merge point are all in a construction zone with only one lane but the line of traffic is wildly separated. Groups of cars properly separated and then big gaps where some timid or rubber necking driver is going much slower than all the rest, backing up traffic well behind them and affecting the merge area.
    Zipper merging IMHO will make only a minor change. I see the real backup is caused by slow drivers in the narrowed section or where the road widens and traffic is supposed to get back up to speed.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

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    Yeah, I've certainly been stuck in traffic doing 20-30 km/h after merging when they should be doing 50 or 60 km/h past the construction / accident.

  43. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spill View Post
    The province is on board with updated merge signage standards for high-volume (i.e. congested), multi-lane construction sites. The following signs would typically be seen:
    - zipper merge ahead
    - use both lanes
    - alternate merge xx m ahead
    - begin merge
    - merge (in case you missed the other signs?)

    http://www.transportation.alberta.ca...ction/DB85.pdf

    It would be great to see similar standards locally.

    I see this as a signage problem. The example on the transportation web site shows lane end signs with the word merge on another sign underneath.

    A lane ending is not the same as a merge. The driver in the lane that ends must yield the right of way to drivers in the lane that is not ending. If you are supposed to merge (driver that is further ahead has the right of way) then they should simply use a merge sign.
    Last edited by pietschu; 17-06-2015 at 10:22 AM.

  44. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by Titanium48 View Post
    Yeah, I've certainly been stuck in traffic doing 20-30 km/h after merging when they should be doing 50 or 60 km/h past the construction / accident.

    All it takes is one rubber necker or texter. Police should monitor slow pokes and ticket either cases for distracted driving.
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    Minnesotans aren't "getting" the zipper merge, state trying to educate drivers. I love the German name for it reißverschlusssystem
    https://www.wired.com/2016/06/nice-m...-zipper-merge/

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    Quote Originally Posted by pietschu View Post
    A lane ending is not the same as a merge. The driver in the lane that ends must yield the right of way to drivers in the lane that is not ending. If you are supposed to merge (driver that is further ahead has the right of way) then they should simply use a merge sign.
    There you have the solution. End each lane with a barricade and leave a gap straddling the line between lanes. Solid lane separators leading up to the choke point would also be helpful.

    However, the biggest obstacle to the zipper merge is the traffic report on the radio telling drivers which lane they should use.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sundance View Post
    Minnesotans aren't "getting" the zipper merge, state trying to educate drivers. I love the German name for it reißverschlusssystem
    https://www.wired.com/2016/06/nice-m...-zipper-merge/
    Maybe that could be put on that scoreboard thing over the Whitemud at Rainbow Valley bridge

  48. #48

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    Heard on the radio today that the AMA is promoting zipper merging now

  49. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Heard on the radio today that the AMA is promoting zipper merging now
    Is that where you zip 2 sleeping bags together to share with someone? 'cause it's damn cold enough to want to!
    I feel in no way entitled to your opinion...

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Heard on the radio today that the AMA is promoting zipper merging now
    Heh, what took them so long?
    Nisi Dominus Frustra

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    I don't know if AB Transportation follows this, but they created this design bulletin for signage that they should follow that would help.




    https://www.transportation.alberta.c...ction/DB85.pdf




    Basically, merge near the end, otherwise stay in your lane. If there is a designated 'merge zone' then it's clear when to zipper up.

  52. #52

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    Just tell people that merging too early is a crazy practice and everyone should notice how people simply drive past them and get let in, in front of them.

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    Both Global News and Global Edmonton posted this to facebook today.

    The comments were cringe inducing.


    Zipper merge is THE way to go tho.

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    Zippering requires a level of courtesy, something elusive on our roads unfortunately.
    Nisi Dominus Frustra

  55. #55

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    Promoting zipper merging is a small thing can can go a long way to instilling some of that courtesy into our drivers. Maybe after that we can get people to stop at stop signs and red lights instead of blowing through or making dangerous turns at speed into the far lane. Maybe.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

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