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Thread: E T S to test Chinese electric busses

  1. #101
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    There are companies that make quality products and companies that don't. iPhones typically are made in China, probably a lot of other smartphones too.

    But regardless, why even bother doing the test in warm weather, it isn't like we will be building bus barns for summer buses and bus barns for winter buses. They should test something from September to May, if they aren't heated then they aren't considered.

  2. #102

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    Why is Edmonton wasting time on this technology. They're planning to use these buses on a NAIT Express but only until end of October. Guess why? Yup. The buses won't work in an Edmonton winter.

    Seriously, what is the point of looking at technology that won't work in your city for half of the year.
    ETS Trolley Buses - 1939 to 2010 - R.I.P.

  3. #103

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    Boys with toys...

    Same with hybrid diesels. They knew before hand that hybrids were not cost effective, difficult to maintain and not better than new trolleys.

    Streetcars are a capital expensive and slow way to move people.

    Realize that this is not an isolated electric bus test but an issue with a rudderless transit department more interested in the latest transit fad rather than the more mundane job of fixing routes and schedules and the elephant in the room; getting the transit union to get on board with making real changes that benefit the ridership.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  4. #104
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    According to this video, if the initial pilot project is successful, a winter pilot project will be done to see how they fair in our winter conditions. Pretty common on how things progress, did you honestly think the City would do the first pilot and then not test them in the winter before buying some??? Who knew that China doesn't get snow

    It's amazing how smart some of you think you are compared to everyone else lol, why don't you apply for a job at ETS/the City and show them how things are done????


  5. #105

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  6. #106

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hilman View Post
    According to this video, if the initial pilot project is successful, a winter pilot project will be done to see how they fair in our winter conditions. Pretty common on how things progress, did you honestly think the City would do the first pilot and then not test them in the winter before buying some??? Who knew that China doesn't get snow

    It's amazing how smart some of you think you are compared to everyone else lol, why don't you apply for a job at ETS/the City and show them how things are done????

    Geez - really. What's with the attitude?
    ETS Trolley Buses - 1939 to 2010 - R.I.P.

  7. #107
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    Attitude? It gets really nauseating to read the same people post negative things (and who are usually incorrect) over and over and over and over and over and over and over. See how annoying that is?

    Read through this thread (and any other city infrastructure thread) and the same people keep whining about things they know nothing about. This is a pilot project, the next step if deemed successful is a winter trial, this is how most things work in life.

  8. #108

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    Maybe it is because these same people who recommended diesel hybrids and to tear down a 127 km network of electric trolley lines because they said electric buses were too polluting with that dirty coal fired energy. Last time I looked diesel was made from tar sands and we use "clean" electric power for LRT (ETS info), the new streetcars will use electricity too and if I am not mistaken, these battery powered Chinese buses were not running on Duracells so they have to be plugged in to that same source.


    BTW Hilman, how is our new fleet of 38 diesel hybrids that were to replace our trolleys performing? A nauseating failure IMHO.

    The hypocrisy of their actions is jaw dropping.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  9. #109

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    I don't want to resurrect the trolley debate now, but I will just say that with the departures of Sloan, Diotte, Hayter, Krushell, Batty and Mandel, if the trolley vote were held today, a modern trolley network would have won in a cakewalk.

    But if the Stealth can actually work in winter, I do see it as progress, completely unlike the hybrids.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  10. #110

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    "Hey, we're interested in some of your electric busses. We're a really northern city & we've got some dodgy roads. Before you get all crazy expensive & build us a custom test bus to fit our climate, can we use a couple off-the-shelf models during the summer to get a feel for how they operate in our duty cycle?."

    It's not rocket science why we've got barebones basic test busses now. It's a phased test, not gross incompetence.

    (I still miss the trolleys tho & would have preferred we not throw away the network baby with the old trolley bathwater.)
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  11. #111
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    It was the other way around, the Chinese manufacturer was touring the buses around. Edmonton got a good PR sample that told them very little, but at least the cost was also small.

    I hope that the City has their eye on the winter testing happening in Winnipeg with New Flyer, including quick-charge stations at terminal stations. That's where the really useful data will come from.

  12. #112

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    So I finally got to ride the Ookspress "Stealth" bus today.

    In short, it's awesome, vastly more attractive than any other ETS bus, but not perfect either.

    Pros:
    - Air quality! The air just felt crisp and clear, better I think than my home or work or the LRT or obviously much better than in other buses. I'm certain there is more at work here than fuel choice, I highly suspect the air conditioner also has a very high quality air filter. Unlike the fogginess and occasional nausea I get from diesel bus rides I stepped off the bus at NAIT feeling very refreshed.

    - Air temperature! As noted above, it has air conditioning, and despite the untinted glass, the temperature was cool and again refreshing.

    - Untinted glass! Nice view. Doesn't feel claustrophobic.

    - Armrests. Most seats I think had them, but not all. Nice touch. They could also fold-up out of the way.

    - Interior noise level. Not actually as quiet as I had expected, very sort-of tranmissiony noise, not unlike a trolley. But still certainly quieter than the diesels, especially during acceleration.

    - Exterior noise level. Not quite silent, but with the ambient traffic noise, not particularly noticeable.

    - Acceleration. As expected of course, it would go wherever the driver wanted.


    Cons:
    - Seats and interior panels were squeaking and rattling much moreso than the ETS standard New Flyer diesels, not only more noticable from the lower mechanical noise, but definitely more actual noise going on.

    - Acceleration and braking were a little jerky. Not sure if this is something the driver would be able to improve, but should be something the maker could fine tune as well.


    Overall, like I said, incredibly more comfortable than what we have, with room for improvement as well. Ridership would definitely respond.


    I haven't heard about any issues with reliability during the pilot, which along with longevity should of course be the hallmark of electrics anyways, but if they can be certain that reliability holds up in winter, I would not object to replacing the entire fleet.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  13. #113

    Default "Stealth" winter trial on the way.

    the stealth electric bus should hit city streets in mid or late December.

    “This bus is being specifically designed for Edmonton,” said Michael Austin, vice president of BYD America Corp., the China-based business outfitting the bus for the Edmonton area.
    Source
    Last edited by JayBee; 15-10-2014 at 07:50 AM.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  14. #114

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    What does the fox brownfield clean up have to do with this?

    Im pretty sure you wanted this link.

    http://metronews.ca/news/edmonton/11...s-this-winter/

  15. #115

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    Correct.

    Weird, I thought I had corrected that last night.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  16. #116
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    Great news, glad to see the next part of the pilot forge ahead.

    Guess all those rants about not testing it in the winter were a little overblown hey, very surprised to see knee jerk reactions about things people don't know on here

  17. #117
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    We'll have to wait& see if there is any analysis of the summer testing to see if it was worthwhile. I still contend that it was more a marketing exercise for the manufacturer, and we'll see this winter whether i works out.

  18. #118
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    Edmonton should plan to buy up to 250 electric buses, report recommends
    BY GORDON KENT, EDMONTON JOURNAL NOVEMBER 26, 2014

    EDMONTON - Edmonton Transit’s test of electric buses has been so successful the city should consider buying up to 250 of them, a new report recommends.

    ETS began using two compressed natural gas buses in January 2013 and started a trial of two electric vehicles last May.

    A report released Wednesday estimates the city would save about $9 million a year running 250 buses powered by electricity rather than natural gas or diesel.

    That represents more than one-quarter of the current fleet.

    “Electric buses represent a transformational technology that provides a unique opportunity to simultaneously realize economic, environmental and social benefits.”

    The vehicles need less maintenance because they don’t have an engine and transmission, and the fuel along with infrastructure to supply it is cheaper.

    The current garages could hold 30 to 50 electric buses, which cost an extra $280,000 each to purchase, without major modifications.

    The vehicles would put out 7,860 tonnes of greenhouse gases annually, roughly half the amount emitted by the other two fuel sources.

    However, the report, which will be discussed this month during city budget deliberations, cautions there’s limited information about the cost projections.

    It suggests completing tests of the natural gas and electric buses.

    ETS should start to phase in the electric buses in 2017 and finish large-scale implementation within 10 years.

    More to come …

    [email protected]
    http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/...dmontonjournal

  19. #119

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    Promising, but I still don't mind if we wait for the Winter trial.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  20. #120
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    The report is recommending purchase of an entire fleet when a winter test hasn't taken place? Am I missing something?

  21. #121
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    ^ the articles states:
    However, the report, which will be discussed this month during city budget deliberations, cautions there’s limited information about the cost projections.

    It suggests completing tests of the natural gas and electric buses.
    I would think a major purchase like this would take a year or more to get approved having the current winter tests complete/results known so I wouldn't worry (yet).

  22. #122

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    Quote Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
    So I finally got to ride the Ookspress "Stealth" bus today.

    In short, it's awesome, vastly more attractive than any other ETS bus, but not perfect either.

    Pros:
    - Air quality! The air just felt crisp and clear, better I think than my home or work or the LRT or obviously much better than in other buses. I'm certain there is more at work here than fuel choice, I highly suspect the air conditioner also has a very high quality air filter. Unlike the fogginess and occasional nausea I get from diesel bus rides I stepped off the bus at NAIT feeling very refreshed.

    - Air temperature! As noted above, it has air conditioning, and despite the untinted glass, the temperature was cool and again refreshing.

    - Untinted glass! Nice view. Doesn't feel claustrophobic.

    - Armrests. Most seats I think had them, but not all. Nice touch. They could also fold-up out of the way.

    - Interior noise level. Not actually as quiet as I had expected, very sort-of tranmissiony noise, not unlike a trolley. But still certainly quieter than the diesels, especially during acceleration.

    - Exterior noise level. Not quite silent, but with the ambient traffic noise, not particularly noticeable.

    - Acceleration. As expected of course, it would go wherever the driver wanted.


    Cons:
    - Seats and interior panels were squeaking and rattling much moreso than the ETS standard New Flyer diesels, not only more noticable from the lower mechanical noise, but definitely more actual noise going on.

    - Acceleration and braking were a little jerky. Not sure if this is something the driver would be able to improve, but should be something the maker could fine tune as well.


    Overall, like I said, incredibly more comfortable than what we have, with room for improvement as well. Ridership would definitely respond.


    I haven't heard about any issues with reliability during the pilot, which along with longevity should of course be the hallmark of electrics anyways, but if they can be certain that reliability holds up in winter, I would not object to replacing the entire fleet.
    I meant to post an update on this, but I rode the Ookspress again in late October with a different driver, and in regards to the ride jerkiness I bolded under cons above, with the other driver at the controls, there didn't seem to be any problem. Just a matter of driver choice.

    So again, as long as it works in Winter, I would be okay with replacing the entire fleet.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  23. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hilman View Post
    ^ the articles states:
    However, the report, which will be discussed this month during city budget deliberations, cautions there’s limited information about the cost projections.

    It suggests completing tests of the natural gas and electric buses.
    I would think a major purchase like this would take a year or more to get approved having the current winter tests complete/results known so I wouldn't worry (yet).
    It just seems that they're being extremely premature with recommending any course of action or assuming any cost savings when the buses haven't even been tested in the winter, which is by far the most demanding test. I don't know, maybe it's more a matter of how the EJ is spinning the report, than the report itself.

  24. #124

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    ^ I think the report is just kindof a "heads-up" that it could be a serious option. Not too many times an opportunity to improve things in so-many ways like this comes around with new technology. Similar to the LED streetlighting. Definitely the Winter test should go ahead, and definitely the contract should have outs and abouts (as usual) but the report just sortof says "yup, real option, real advantages."
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  25. #125

    Default Metro's take on the report, with poll:

    ...There are lower upfront costs to upgrade city buildings for electric buses when compared to natural gas buses, with the city’s current buildings able to fit 30-50 electric buses which would be spread out across the city, said administration...

    The additional cost of an electric bus would be $280,000, which would result in “significant cost savings which more than offsets the additional vehicle purchase cost,” reads the report...
    Source
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  26. #126
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    Maybe it's to get some extra bus replacement money into the 5-year capital plan?

  27. #127
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    Default Electric Buses enter service today... in Winnipeg

    I think that this will be the real test , The new buses on a regular scheduled run in the Canadian winter. If these Canadian made buses make the grade there , I think we will see a revolution in urban transport.

    http://www.newswire.ca/en/story/1454...nnipeg-transit

  28. #128

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    ^ Did you know the maker we tested in the summer is making us winter-test versions that will commence an Edmonton winter test from the middle of December, also on a regular scheduled run?

    Nothing against the Winnipeg test, just that we will also be testing at the same time.


    ^^ I dunno. I always defer to you on issues of transit operations.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  29. #129
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    Yes , I was aware of the test in Edmonton. But the Winnipeg is committing four buses to regular service and has installed the charging stations etc. This should take some of the novelty effect off. I think that this will be interesting . Short tests are one thing , regular hard service in winter conditions can be quite another.

  30. #130

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    ???

    The only substantial difference between the Edmonton and Winnipeg tests is that the Edmonton buses don't require a charging station.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  31. #131
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    They've also got the bus manufacturer that has made our entire existing fleet behind it, and the charging stations are a hint that they've thought longer and harder about this: they know that running a heater on a 40' bus that's opening the doors every 2 minutes will take a whole lot of juice. They've also got a particular route and schedule picked out, and public.

    We don't know at this point whether ETS will be actually testing the busses for long days on demanding routes or just doing single runs on rush hour express runs.

  32. #132

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    Yeah, the differences between what Edmonton & Winnipeg are doing are all down to the thoughtfulness of our respective Transportation departments & have nothing to do at all with the fact "the bus manufacturer that has made our entire existing fleet" is headquartered & a major employer in Winnipeg.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  33. #133

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    Not saying the buses are equal, and hopefully the respective tests (as well as Bombardier's fascinating Primove bus tests in Montréal) suss out exactly which technology we should look into further.

    Just saying each of the tests will yield useful data for year-round ops.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  34. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    They've also got the bus manufacturer that has made our entire existing fleet behind it, and the charging stations are a hint that they've thought longer and harder about this: they know that running a heater on a 40' bus that's opening the doors every 2 minutes will take a whole lot of juice. They've also got a particular route and schedule picked out, and public.

    We don't know at this point whether ETS will be actually testing the busses for long days on demanding routes or just doing single runs on rush hour express runs.
    Or the buses can't run the whole day without being charged........

  35. #135

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    Doesn't seem anyone has updated what became of this project.

    From: http://www.edmonton.ca/transportatio...e-transit.aspx

    A winter electric bus trial that was set to take place in early 2015 has been put on hold, as the heating system in the current prototype bus does not meet the City of Edmonton's zero emissions goal. ETS will continue to work with the supplier to encourage development of an electric bus that meets the needs of our winter city, with the goal of doing further testing in the winter of 2015/16.
    The BYD and New Flyer's battery-electric buses in Winnipeg both use a small heater for winter operations. I don't think this is news to anyone, so, I was quite surprised to read this bit that the BYD bus doesn't meet the COE's zero emissions goal. To say nothing of the fact that our power is coal or natural gas generated and is not zero emissions, a fact that ETS hammered home during the trolley debate.

    Indeed, the impetus for getting an electric bus in town seemed to come after we started testing CNG buses. The net result was that in early November 2014, administration went to Council, pretty much fought for the electric bus over CNG buses. They got their way, and lo and behold a month or so later on the ETS website is basically a statement that seemingly kills the proposition of electric buses in Edmonton for some years. I don't want to dig up the trolley debate, but, administration put the hybrid bus out there as a trolley replacement and where did that end up? Seems something similar here in that Council was the one who initiated CNG pilot, administration brought the electric buses in themselves, sold Council on electric buses, and then they quietly killed the further testing on the excuse that the buses have a diesel heater in them.

    The two CNG buses were sold to Medicine Hat at the end of June, although, at least 1 was out of the City and in Calgary by May before Council had even voted on whether to sell them or not.

    I am quite happy see Charles Stolte gone. The following quotes from him truly left me disgusted.

    At the March 5, 2014 Transportation Committee meeting he said: "It's going to be very hard to convince me whether it be natural gas or electric, to move off of the diesel."
    And later in the Edmonton Journal: "I’m willing to test (electric), I’m willing to pilot it, but I’m an old-school guy. I fall back on diesel.”

  36. #136
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    We may have to add wood stoves. One armload of firewood gets you free fare for the day. Haha
    Last edited by Drumbones; 17-08-2015 at 09:56 PM.

  37. #137
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    If there's a problem with heat Edmonton could use Strathcona County's double decker buses.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

  38. #138

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    I am quite happy see Charles Stolte gone. The following quotes from him truly left me disgusted.
    Heartily agree

    Diesels and streetcars was his mantra. Both running on clean, zero emission pink unicorn farts.

    When reality stared him in the face, he created a his own.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  39. #139

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    Sounding positive in St. Albert.
    http://www.stalbertgazette.com/artic...308269975/1039
    St. Albert could have up to four electric buses on its streets by September 2016 now that council has agreed to buy them with cash from GreenTRIP.
    City council voted unanimously to accept the results of St. Albert Transit’s recent electric bus trial and to go ahead with plans to buy that kind of bus once the city gets cash from the provincial GreenTRIP program to do so.
    Last edited by transitresearcher; 26-08-2015 at 12:27 PM.

  40. #140

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    Grrrrrrr...

    I mean, Ggggggoood for them.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  41. #141

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    From the agenda for next weeks Transportation Committee meeting:

    5.1
    Electrical Bus Pilot - Short-Term and Long-Term Implementation Strategy
    Revised Due Date:
    June 2016

    Given how far in the future the revised date is, I'm curious if that means an electric bus is going to be used this winter. There's currently a US built (as opposed to the two buses built in China used here previously) bus working it's way West. Last I heard it was in Regina.

  42. #142

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    ^ I can't think any other reason they'd have a due date in June than for a Winter test result.

    Is that Regina bus the New Flyer model that Winnipeg tried?
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  43. #143

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    Quote Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
    ^ I can't think any other reason they'd have a due date in June than for a Winter test result.

    Is that Regina bus the New Flyer model that Winnipeg tried?
    No, Winnipeg is still running their fleet of New Flyer's. The bus I originally referenced is built by BYD.

    This BYD has made it to St. Albert where it is running in service this week. I went for a ride today. Overall, not bad. The build quality feels better than the Chinese built buses that were here before. This bus felt tigher, and had less rattles. Felt more robust. Windows suck... In the rear section I couldn't see out of them they were mounted so low. Windows overall are small. I can't help but wonder if that's meant to help with energy efficiency.
    As long as you can see out of the windows, I don't think it's terribly important how big the windows are. The rear section altogether is quite short (although the steps are quite high to reach it). My head just barely cleared the roof. The overall interior reminds me of the Orion VII hybrids. Acceleration seemed equivalent to a diesel. The bus didn't seem as top heavy as the New Flyer battery electrics I've ridden on, and certainly didn't lean as much in corners like the New Flyer's do.
    This bus wasn't winterized. I can't help but wonder if we'll see a winterized BYD this winter as St. Albert has the GreenTRIP funding for 4 electric buses.

  44. #144

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    Second round of BYD electric bus testing has started. One was on the route 7 today. No announcement on ETS's website yet though. In fact, they outright removed the mention of electric bus testing from the Future Transit page.

  45. #145

    Default Feasability Of All-Electric Transit Fleet Being Investigated

    Feasability Of All-Electric Transit Fleet Being Investigated

    Elizabeth Priest
    November 30, 2015 02:27 pm
    Share on facebookShare on twitterShare on emailShare on google_plusone_share

    The province and city are teaming up investigate the potential of an all-electric transit system.

    A task force has been created, with representatives from the city and province, Manitoba Hydro, New Flyer and Red River College.
    Source

    (This is Winnipeg.)
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  46. #146

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    After being out of service for the better part of 3 weeks, the BYD is back in service. It has operated on the route 7 the past two afternoons.
    Also, a New Flyer electric bus is in town for upwards of 5 weeks. Not sure when it's hitting the road, but, they are doing operator training right now.

  47. #147

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    Wonderful.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  48. #148

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    Quote Originally Posted by transitresearcher View Post
    The BYD and New Flyer's battery-electric buses in Winnipeg both use a small heater for winter operations. I don't think this is news to anyone, so, I was quite surprised to read this bit that the BYD bus doesn't meet the COE's zero emissions goal. To say nothing of the fact that our power is coal or natural gas generated and is not zero emissions, a fact that ETS hammered home during the trolley debate.

    Indeed, the impetus for getting an electric bus in town seemed to come after we started testing CNG buses. The net result was that in early November 2014, administration went to Council, pretty much fought for the electric bus over CNG buses. They got their way, and lo and behold a month or so later on the ETS website is basically a statement that seemingly kills the proposition of electric buses in Edmonton for some years. I don't want to dig up the trolley debate, but, administration put the hybrid bus out there as a trolley replacement and where did that end up? Seems something similar here in that Council was the one who initiated CNG pilot, administration brought the electric buses in themselves, sold Council on electric buses, and then they quietly killed the further testing on the excuse that the buses have a diesel heater in them.

    The two CNG buses were sold to Medicine Hat at the end of June, although, at least 1 was out of the City and in Calgary by May before Council had even voted on whether to sell them or not.

    I am quite happy see Charles Stolte gone. The following quotes from him truly left me disgusted.

    At the March 5, 2014 Transportation Committee meeting he said: "It's going to be very hard to convince me whether it be natural gas or electric, to move off of the diesel."
    And later in the Edmonton Journal: "I’m willing to test (electric), I’m willing to pilot it, but I’m an old-school guy. I fall back on diesel.”
    I agree totally on CNG buses, I've posted before on here it makes a ton more sense than electric for Edmonton. Be on the leading edge, not the bleeding edge, I fear even if these electric buses do fine for a year or two, we don't know how those batteries will stand up after a few years of Edmontons climate. Even in Calgary, where, unlike Edmonton there is access to clean electricity (in Southern Alberta from wind), they realized CNG is the way to go, building a facility (up to 400 buses) to enable:

    http://www.calgary.ca/Transportation...toneybusgarage
    Last edited by moahunter; 09-01-2016 at 05:12 PM.

  49. #149

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    Caught this at WEM earlyer today

    2016-01-11_06-19-07 by kris metcalfe, on Flickr

  50. #150

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    Awesome.

    Wish there were an app to see where it pops up.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  51. #151

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    Quote Originally Posted by transitresearcher View Post
    I am quite happy see Charles Stolte gone. The following quotes from him truly left me disgusted.

    At the March 5, 2014 Transportation Committee meeting he said: "It's going to be very hard to convince me whether it be natural gas or electric, to move off of the diesel."
    And later in the Edmonton Journal: "I’m willing to test (electric), I’m willing to pilot it, but I’m an old-school guy. I fall back on diesel.”
    Stolte may not have been in charge of the Metro LRT line or other capital transit projects but the "Good ol' boys" club was up to a lot of self interest projects rather than providing better transit. Glad he is gone too except we are left with his mess to clean up. Maybe he should go back to driving buses but I guess he was not too good at that either.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  52. #152

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    Quote Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
    Awesome.

    Wish there were an app to see where it pops up.
    ETS has an absolutely sub-par live bus map. The Trapeze product is probably the worst I've used and it blows my mind that you can't view the live map on a mobile device. Saskatoon uses the same map and I was beyond frustrated using it there.

    A friend of mine does have his own app that tracks every bus in the city, regardless of whether or not it is on a smart bus route. As long as the driver is logged into the MDT, it will show up on the map. Having said that, it's not available to the general public yet.

    #6013 has always done in the afternoon a 128 departure from University at 14:03 and as far as I know that's a round trip back to University. It is a smart bus route so the bus should show up if the driver is logged in, but, it doesn't. I haven't looked on ETS's live map for the bus but I assume it isn't showing up there. The bus is definitely smart bus equipped though.

    I've heard it sounds like it does a route 4 in the mornings which isn't a smart bus route anyways.

    #6011 has done a number of runs, but, this week it has done the first 104 of the morning, then a 9 tripper to NAIT from Southgate at 7:11, followed by a 188, and finally a 128 to University. In the afternoon, it does a 4 from University at 14:58 to Boonie Doon, then a 112 trip from Capilano to WEM, followed by a University to Jasper Place route 7.
    Last week #6011 was on a morning 4/112/122 I believe and in the afternoon did peak extras on the route 7 that didn't have any interlines.

    A couple of friends wanted to ride 6011 today. I think we kind of surprised the driver after riding the bus on the route 4, and then turning up again at a random bus stop on the 112 40 minutes later.
    Last edited by transitresearcher; 16-01-2016 at 12:26 AM.

  53. #153

    Default

    Imagine the landfill impact - unless they are recycling the old buses.

    Gotta love this “politically correct” quote about dictators:

    “China’s rapid embrace of the new technology, which has gone from fringe to forward-thinking in under a decade, shows the potential of the country’s centrally controlled policy process. ”



    How Shenzhen, China turned all its 16,000 buses electric - Curbed

    Shenzhen is the poster child for China’s massive push to electrify its buses
    By Patrick Sisson May 4, 2018, 4:49pm EDT


    “...It’s a significant achievement, especially considering the size of the city’s fleet, which totals 16,359 vehicles, more than the combined number operating in New York City, LA, Toronto, New Jersey, and Chicago.

    Shenzhen has become the poster child of China’s electric bus push. With 385,000 electric buses, the country has 99 percent of the world’s electric buses, and currently adds 9,500 zero-emission buses every five weeks, equivalent to London’s entire bus fleet....”


    https://www.curbed.com/2018/5/4/1732...transportation
    Bolding mine
    Last edited by KC; 04-05-2018 at 08:53 PM.

  54. #154

    Default

    OK, so people shouldn't switch to electric buses because the Chinese are doing so and they're a dictatorship. I imagine that they also provide medical service for the Chinese people so we shouldn't do that either.

    It's simply pointing out that when you have the power centralized, it's faster and easier to change policies. Compare the provincial run BC transit system to the Alberta model of every town and city running their own. Look at how long it's taking to come up with an integrated transit system for the Edmonton area.

    But sure, let's bring dictatorships into it as a reason why we shouldn't go for a region wide system. Because that's what the Chinese do.

  55. #155
    C2E Hard Core Contributor
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    asia
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    2,749

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    OK, so people shouldn't switch to electric buses because the Chinese are doing so and they're a dictatorship. I imagine that they also provide medical service for the Chinese people so we shouldn't do that either.

    It's simply pointing out that when you have the power centralized, it's faster and easier to change policies. Compare the provincial run BC transit system to the Alberta model of every town and city running their own. Look at how long it's taking to come up with an integrated transit system for the Edmonton area.

    But sure, let's bring dictatorships into it as a reason why we shouldn't go for a region wide system. Because that's what the Chinese do.
    Agreed.

    China IS a dictatorship, and it DOES have a lot of centralized planning, but we shouldn't neccessarily conflate the two things. Canadian provinces have way more power against the federal government than provinces in, for example, South Korea(where educational policy and even dog leash laws are determined in Seoul), but that doesn't mean South Korea is a dictatorship.

  56. #156

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    OK, so people shouldn't switch to electric buses because the Chinese are doing so and they're a dictatorship. I imagine that they also provide medical service for the Chinese people so we shouldn't do that either.

    It's simply pointing out that when you have the power centralized, it's faster and easier to change policies. Compare the provincial run BC transit system to the Alberta model of every town and city running their own. Look at how long it's taking to come up with an integrated transit system for the Edmonton area.

    But sure, let's bring dictatorships into it as a reason why we shouldn't go for a region wide system. Because that's what the Chinese do.
    “OK, so people shouldn't switch to electric buses because the Chinese are doing so and they're a dictatorship. I imagine that they also provide medical service for the Chinese people so we shouldn't do that either.”

    You sure have some weird beliefs.

  57. #157

    Default

    Has anyone been to China lately? They're more socialist than dictators now. Also who is to say their buses cannot be modified for winter usage. They winter cities as well like Garvin- Our twin sister.
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

  58. #158
    C2E Stole my Heart!!!!
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Edmonton area.
    Posts
    8,289

    Default

    Edmonton is fighting with BC to get good old oil over to burnaby and the harbor while at the same time switching to electric buses to not use bad old oil at home. Would seem odd to many.
    Last edited by Drumbones; 05-05-2018 at 08:57 PM.

  59. #159

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    Edmonton is fighting with BC to get good old oil over to burnaby and the harbor while at the same time switching to electric buses to not use bad old oil at home. Would seem odd to many.
    Everything seems odd by many. Many people aren’t very thoughtful about much. They’re just driven by emotion, not reason.

  60. #160

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    Edmonton is fighting with BC to get good old oil over to burnaby and the harbor while at the same time switching to electric buses to not use bad old oil at home. Would seem odd to many.
    Everything seems odd by many. Many people aren’t very thoughtful about much. They’re just driven by emotion, not reason.
    Oil is used for more than just gasoline. Your plastic garbage containers or outdoor furniture are just few examples. We still need tires until space flights come into affect, and that would be sometime yet.
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

  61. #161

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    OK, so people shouldn't switch to electric buses because the Chinese are doing so and they're a dictatorship. I imagine that they also provide medical service for the Chinese people so we shouldn't do that either.

    It's simply pointing out that when you have the power centralized, it's faster and easier to change policies. Compare the provincial run BC transit system to the Alberta model of every town and city running their own. Look at how long it's taking to come up with an integrated transit system for the Edmonton area.

    But sure, let's bring dictatorships into it as a reason why we shouldn't go for a region wide system. Because that's what the Chinese do.
    “OK, so people shouldn't switch to electric buses because the Chinese are doing so and they're a dictatorship. I imagine that they also provide medical service for the Chinese people so we shouldn't do that either.”

    You sure have some weird beliefs.

  62. #162

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    Edmonton is fighting with BC to get good old oil over to burnaby and the harbor while at the same time switching to electric buses to not use bad old oil at home. Would seem odd to many.
    It's time to switch to coal powered buses!

    KC says that we shouldn't switch to electric buses because China is using them and yet Kinder Morgan would primarily ship bitumen to China. Shouldn't we then refuse to sell them oil instead?

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