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Thread: Does multiculturalism threaten secularism?

  1. #1

    Default Does multiculturalism threaten secularism?

    Your thoughts on where the two "ideals" clash. Can they forever coexist?

    Someone mentioned separation of church and state and that got me going.
    I came across this interesting discussion plus what seems to be a "racist" (on the anti-religious sense) piece out of Britain. [Or maybe tribalist. ]. If you don't agree, note that it refers to a majority islamic voter population as a "problem". Well, that sounds incredibly biased, if not "racist" to me. I also found an interesting discussion of how demographic trends threaten secularism. All great things to debate...

    Also, this thread at the Secular Cafe provides interesting personal experiences and viewpoints...

    Melting pot or salad bowl?
    http://www.secularcafe.org/showthread.php?t=22777



    DEMOGRAPHICS AS DESTINY:
    GLOBALIZATION AND THE RESURGENCE OF RELIGION THROUGH FERTILITY
    By JOSHUA RAMOS University of Denver

    Excerpt:
    "Within this context of globalization, demographics and the resurgence of religion, there are possible challenges to secularism within one of the basic parameters of demography, that of fertility rates. In short, in every major world religion there is a strong pro-natalist trend, and it is demographically projected that the religious are set to outbirth the non-religious at such a prodigious rate, that there will occur a stalling and possible modest reversal of secularization within the United States and Europe around 2050.6 This is because dynamic changes within the religious composition of any given society—whether its relative growth or decline—entails social and political implications that alter the balance between liberalism and conservatism, as well as the values and attitudes of secularists, moderates and fundamentalists. In our case, the present transformation to take into serious consideration is the current global recession in fertility rates that finds its sharply delineated exception within the religious communities."

    http://www.jcrt.org/archives/12.3/ramos.pdf




    This seems racist to me and probably why "There is no real public debate"..

    The Islamic future of Britain
    Britain is in denial. If population trends continue, by the year 2050, Britain will be a majority Muslim nation
    By Vincent Cooper,mOn 13 June 2013 07:33
    Excerpt:
    "Britain is in denial. There is no real public debate on a historic event that is transforming the country. Mention of it occasionally surfaces in the media, but the mainstream political class never openly discuss it.

    What is that historic event? By the year 2050, in a mere 37 years, Britain will be a majority Muslim nation.

    This projection is based on reasonably good data. ..."

    http://www.thecommentator.com/articl...ure_of_britain

    This reveals some parallels to some of the issues...
    Democracy, China and the Communist Party: Big surprise | The Economist
    http://www.economist.com/node/15127490

    And from c2e...

    Liberals not so liberal when it comes to religious freedom - Connect2Edmonton
    ( Liberals and Conservatives not so liberal when it comes to religious freedom )
    http://www.connect2edmonton.ca/forum...lticulturalism


    .
    Last edited by KC; 08-02-2014 at 10:49 AM.

  2. #2

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    One more good read...
    Secularism and Multiculturalism - OpenMind
    "I believe that secularism and multiculturalism are converging. Put somewhat less enigmatically, the issues about the proper regime of secularism in Western democracies are becoming and more and more interwoven with issues about the proper ways to deal with the growing diversity of these societies.

    1) Everyone agrees today that modern, diverse democracies have to be secular in some sense of this term. But in what sense? The term (along with the corresponding French term lai’cité, and its derivatives) has more than one sense. There are in fact many different meanings, but I beli [...]"

    https://www.bbvaopenmind.com/en/arti...ullscreen=true

  3. #3

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    ^no, ever since the first nations first came to Canada, the first immigrants, there has been religion brought in with the people who arrive. First Nations with their spiritual beliefs, Christians from Europe, Muslims from Middle East, Hindu from India, Buddhism from China, etc. Personal religious views while influential on the state in backwards societies are less important on more advanced civilizations. The Quebec debates are more about their insecurity / concerns over preserving their "unique" culture / how backwards Quebec is compared to the rest of Canada, i.e. the real "Red Necks" / "Hicks".

  4. #4

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    No, it most not certainly does not.

    Certainly state religion tends to imply a monoculture. There are many historical examples, but the best ones are exactly the Islamic countries our shameful reichtists are most worried about.

    By the logical contrapositive, then, multiculturalism tends to imply the absence of a state religion -- in other words, secularism.

  5. #5

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    The power of a "majority" to affect the rights of a minority is fascinating.

    The interesting thing about the Cooper article is that it ignores the ongoing religious acrimony already in place over there between Christian religions.


    Muslim demographics, rabid Islamophobia and The Commentator | Islamophobia Watch
    http://www.islamophobiawatch.co.uk/m...e-commentator/

  6. #6

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    ^the Canadian charter is in large part to protect the minority from the majority, an important part of any constitution IMO. The reason why Quebec's actions will be found unconstitutional, is because the majority there is intending to persecute a minority with the laws to be introduced. It's sad.

  7. #7
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    Here's an interesting article from a feminist perspective, written in 1999...

    Is Multiculturalism Bad For Women?

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by overoceans View Post
    Here's an interesting article from a feminist perspective, written in 1999...

    Is Multiculturalism Bad For Women?
    Yes, very interesting, particularly the differentiations between group rights and individual rights or liberty.

  9. #9

    Default

    X-referencing this to a newer but related thread...

    http://www.connect2edmonton.ca/forum...d.php?p=715150
    Last edited by KC; 08-10-2015 at 06:47 AM.

  10. #10

    Default

    So should immigrants do more to assimilate?

    CBC-Angus Reid poll: Canadians want minorities to do more to 'fit in'
    Majority polled also said immigration policies should put Canada's economic needs first
    By Jason Proctor, CBC, Oct 03, 2016

    As a divisive election tears Americans apart over questions of race and immigration, a CBC News poll suggests Canadians are...

    In fact, we're more likely to think minorities should assimilate.

    In a national polling partnership between CBC and the Angus Reid Institute, 68 per cent of Canadian respondents said minorities should be doing more to fit in with mainstream society instead of keeping their own customs and languages.

    The same question was put to Americans, with only...

    The Canadian response represents a hardening of attitudes away from multiculturalism over time.

    "It does seem like a very surprising finding, especially when you consider...

    "It is maybe not what conventional wisdom might expect. But what these findings show is there are real limits on what Canadians — regardless of their own heritage or walk of life — are prepared to put up with in terms of accommodation and the sense of the mosaic versus the melting pot."...





    ...The poll says people who have been living in Canada 10 years or less are nearly twice as likely as other respondents to say that minorities should retain their customs, languages and culture.

    Millennial respondents — aged 18 to 34 — were also more likely to favour multiculturalism. The shift towards assimilation increased with age.
    ...

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/britis...ants-1.3784194
    Last edited by KC; 03-10-2016 at 06:48 AM.

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