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Thread: Rogers Place - Arena | Entertainment & Sports Facility | Completed

  1. #10501

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    From Queen + Adam Lambert gig last night, large pano pic taken by a roadie
    Pic is too large for the board so just click on this:https://www.brianmay.com/brian/brian...16380x3828.jpg

    Source website: https://www.brianmay.com/brian/brian...jul17a.html#08
    While Brian May is a man of many talents, I don't think he's taken on the roadie mantle for this tour...

  2. #10502
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    Quote Originally Posted by lat View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    From Queen + Adam Lambert gig last night, large pano pic taken by a roadie
    Pic is too large for the board so just click on this:https://www.brianmay.com/brian/brian...16380x3828.jpg

    Source website: https://www.brianmay.com/brian/brian...jul17a.html#08
    While Brian May is a man of many talents, I don't think he's taken on the roadie mantle for this tour...
    It says taken by. Brian May is at the end of the stage extension in the picture.

  3. #10503
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex.L View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by lat View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    From Queen + Adam Lambert gig last night, large pano pic taken by a roadie
    Pic is too large for the board so just click on this:https://www.brianmay.com/brian/brian...16380x3828.jpg

    Source website: https://www.brianmay.com/brian/brian...jul17a.html#08
    While Brian May is a man of many talents, I don't think he's taken on the roadie mantle for this tour...
    It says taken by. Brian May is at the end of the stage extension in the picture.
    I don't care who took, its great! The concert was great, Rogers is great!

  4. #10504
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    2025-2030
    www.decl.org

    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

  5. #10505

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex.L View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by lat View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    From Queen + Adam Lambert gig last night, large pano pic taken by a roadie
    Pic is too large for the board so just click on this:https://www.brianmay.com/brian/brian...16380x3828.jpg

    Source website: https://www.brianmay.com/brian/brian...jul17a.html#08
    While Brian May is a man of many talents, I don't think he's taken on the roadie mantle for this tour...
    It says taken by. Brian May is at the end of the stage extension in the picture.
    D'OH!

  6. #10506

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    2025-2030
    I think you're being overly optimistic.

    City looking at ways to reduce Edmonton's high downtown office vacancy rates

    The city is looking at taking steps to help reduce an 18 per cent downtown Edmonton office vacancy rate that might not return to a balanced level until at least 2030.


    Vacancies have grown for more than two years and could reach 30 per cent by 2020, partly because the towers going up near Rogers Place will create far more space than downtown typically absorbs, according to material scheduled to be discussed Tuesday by city council’s executive committee.

    http://edmontonjournal.com/business/...-vacancy-rates


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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex.L View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by lat View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    From Queen + Adam Lambert gig last night, large pano pic taken by a roadie
    Pic is too large for the board so just click on this:https://www.brianmay.com/brian/brian...16380x3828.jpg

    Source website: https://www.brianmay.com/brian/brian...jul17a.html#08
    While Brian May is a man of many talents, I don't think he's taken on the roadie mantle for this tour...
    It says taken by. Brian May is at the end of the stage extension in the picture.
    Did it say taken by Brian May? All I saw was ©Brian May 2017.

    There was credit given in this statement on the website:

    "I'm hoping we will soon have the stereoscopic selfie stick videos up on my YouTube channel - but until then ... I wonder if this panorama by my trusty guitar tech Pete Malandrone will paint the picture. Not sure if Jen can find a way of making the whole thing viewable - maybe a link to a large file ? Well here it is in its entirety - and I'll include a 'zoom right in' cropped version - so you can get an idea of the scale. But really ? You had to be there. It was a great night !!!

    Thanks Edmonton !"
    Last edited by SP59; 07-07-2017 at 12:25 AM. Reason: change . to ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by SP59 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex.L View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by lat View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    From Queen + Adam Lambert gig last night, large pano pic taken by a roadie
    Pic is too large for the board so just click on this:https://www.brianmay.com/brian/brian...16380x3828.jpg

    Source website: https://www.brianmay.com/brian/brian...jul17a.html#08
    While Brian May is a man of many talents, I don't think he's taken on the roadie mantle for this tour...
    It says taken by. Brian May is at the end of the stage extension in the picture.
    Did it say taken by Brian May. All I saw was ©Brian May 2017.

    There was credit given in this statement on the website:

    "I'm hoping we will soon have the stereoscopic selfie stick videos up on my YouTube channel - but until then ... I wonder if this panorama by my trusty guitar tech Pete Malandrone will paint the picture. Not sure if Jen can find a way of making the whole thing viewable - maybe a link to a large file ? Well here it is in its entirety - and I'll include a 'zoom right in' cropped version - so you can get an idea of the scale. But really ? You had to be there. It was a great night !!!

    Thanks Edmonton !"
    Right. I'm saying that the original post in this thread (with the picture) said "taken by a roadie". I said it to point out to lat that he misunderstood and that Sonic Death Monkey wasn't calling Brian May a roadie.

  9. #10509

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex.L View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SP59 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex.L View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by lat View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    From Queen + Adam Lambert gig last night, large pano pic taken by a roadie
    Pic is too large for the board so just click on this:https://www.brianmay.com/brian/brian...16380x3828.jpg

    Source website: https://www.brianmay.com/brian/brian...jul17a.html#08
    While Brian May is a man of many talents, I don't think he's taken on the roadie mantle for this tour...
    It says taken by. Brian May is at the end of the stage extension in the picture.
    Did it say taken by Brian May. All I saw was ©Brian May 2017.

    There was credit given in this statement on the website:

    "I'm hoping we will soon have the stereoscopic selfie stick videos up on my YouTube channel - but until then ... I wonder if this panorama by my trusty guitar tech Pete Malandrone will paint the picture. Not sure if Jen can find a way of making the whole thing viewable - maybe a link to a large file ? Well here it is in its entirety - and I'll include a 'zoom right in' cropped version - so you can get an idea of the scale. But really ? You had to be there. It was a great night !!!

    Thanks Edmonton !"
    Right. I'm saying that the original post in this thread (with the picture) said "taken by a roadie". I said it to point out to lat that he misunderstood and that Sonic Death Monkey wasn't calling Brian May a roadie.
    Yeah, I knew SDM wasn't calling Brian a roadie... I was trying to make a joke based on my mistaken impression that Brian was the one that took the photo... oh well... anyway, sorry I missed the show. Apparently Lambert did a great job!

  10. #10510

  11. #10511
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    Towers looking great next to the Tin Palace.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    2025-2030
    Is suburban office relocation to drive this demand?

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    Growth, a shift back downtown.
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    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

  14. #10514
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    I am wondering WHO of any significant numbers could be moving downtown.

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    There are some folks out there... hopefully a few land.
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    There are some folks out there... hopefully a few land.
    What will it take to go from "hopefully" to "definitely?" This is one area where we MUST be assertive to succeed. Leaving it to chance describes Edmonton up until this last boom. We can't do that again.

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    The most Albertan thing about this photo is that our most beautiful piece of stainless steel architecture has a storage shed beside it. 😂

  18. #10518

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevey_G View Post
    The most Albertan thing about this photo is that our most beautiful piece of stainless steel architecture has a storage shed beside it. ��
    heh, don't get me started. For decades the talk was about Bacarat being an eyesore. The Casino, to me, is worse due to what it contrasts with. The Bacarat only had parking lots as backdrop. It wasn't in itself ruining any pictures.

    Its quite incredible that we build a world class arena and allowed such a substandard accompaniment to be build right adjacent to it as part of the project. Really the juxtaposition is such that its hard to see it even being part of the same project other than perhaps cladding.

    ps its kind of perfect that Bacarat is in the foreground. Its like its part of an inside photo bombing joke.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  19. #10519

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    tear down the casino already!

  20. #10520

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    Perhaps Daryl Katz could blow up the casino and have it videotaped for a new action movie!
    Edmonton first, everything else second.

  21. #10521
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    ^ What would you put in place of the casino once its gone?
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

  22. #10522

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    ^ A 600 seat sports bar.

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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    ^ What would you put in place of the casino once its gone?

    Top_Dawg heard that whatever it is, there's a caveat in place that compels the developer to preserve both the east and south facades as well as the roof in any new build.

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    I for one think we should continue with the theme of Albertan farmland by making ice 2.0 into a wheat field. Baccarat can be repurposed as a grain silo.

  25. #10525

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    ^ A 600 seat sports bar.
    on that site, you could go much more than 600. 600 seems more intune with something you would put on 104th street.

  26. #10526

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    145328071-038
    24-Jul-2017
    10220 - 104 AVENUE NW
    Plan 1425251 Blk 9E Lot 5
    10204 - 104 AVENUE NW
    Plan 1425251 Blk 9E Lot 6

    To construct interior alterations to increase the height of 6 interior overhead doors; Rogers Place East Loading Dock.

    OILERS ENTERTAINMENT CANADA CORP.

  27. #10527
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    Rogers Place adding more urinals, sinks, stalls to men’s bathrooms ahead of UFC fight
    By Caley Ramsay

    Work is expected to start on Tuesday and the plan is to have the new facilities installed in time for the UFC 215 event in September, the Oilers Entertainment Group confirmed to Global News on Thursday.

    More urinals, stalls and sinks will be added to two men’s bathrooms that have been identified as high congestion areas – one on the main floor and one on the upper concourse.

    Since Rogers Place opened last fall, one of the biggest complaints from patrons has been the bathroom situation.

    First, the complaints were related to long lines for the women’s bathrooms. During the first two concerts at the venue, some people voiced concerns about long lines to use the women’s facilities.

    When it came to adding more women’s facilities, Rogers Place said its studies found that the men’s washrooms were backing up the most.
    http://globalnews.ca/news/3645780/ro...-of-ufc-fight/

  28. #10528
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    No indication of specific number of toilets and specific number of urinals? Personally I think we need more of the former.
    In any case, I have a feeling it still won't be enough.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  29. #10529

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    Lots of people coming up to Edmonton from Calgary the last few weeks for various concerts. Very positive comments on the changes to Downtown, new feel. Would be interesting to see what the actual numbers are.
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  30. #10530
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    ^yup. I have had dozens of friends come up in the last 2 weeks alone. Many expats and many Calgarians who have not been here in 10-15yrs and all very impressed.
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  31. #10531
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    Great to hear, just imagine the comments once Ice District is complete.

  32. #10532
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    Ice District/Rogers Place from 251m above, ie. future Stantec Tower roof.



    http://uavnorth.ca/panos
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  33. #10533
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    A city for ants.

    That's going to be a ridiculously tall building.

  34. #10534

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    Alex Decoteau Park!
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  35. #10535
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    Likely won't see Alex's park when Tower B is complete. But jeebuz, some folks are gonna fly in and complain that the airplane landed in the wrong city, 'cause "surely to Ghod this can't be Edmonton?!?"
    ... gobsmacked

  36. #10536

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    ^Probably because it isn't Edmonton. They'll be landing near Leduc.
    I feel in no way entitled to your opinion...

  37. #10537
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    You would prefer ECCA? Then none of this would be. Thank You Leduc.
    Last edited by Drumbones; 04-08-2017 at 04:34 PM.

  38. #10538
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    ^Probably because it isn't Edmonton. They'll be landing near Leduc.
    Damn, means I've never made it to Vancouver ...
    ... gobsmacked

  39. #10539
    Edmonton first, everything else second.

  40. #10540

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    ^Are you the author of this site or know who's responsible? I get a
    INFO: krpano 1.19-pr8 (build 2016-09-30) INFO: HTML5/Desktop - WebGL INFO: Registered to: Dmytro Korobkov
    ERROR: parsing './plugins/webvr.js' failed: SyntaxError: Expected token '}'
    It works, but the author may want to tidy up that syntax error.
    I feel in no way entitled to your opinion...

  41. #10541

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    I just stumbled upon it.
    Edmonton first, everything else second.

  42. #10542

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    145328071-040
    04-Aug-2017
    10220 - 104 AVENUE NW
    Plan 1425251 Blk 9E Lot 5
    10204 - 104 AVENUE NW
    Plan 1425251 Blk 9E Lot 6

    To construct interior alterations to two men's public washrooms to increase fixture count (Rogers Place main concourse sector D and upper concourse sector B) FEES settled on 257875701-001

    RESCOM INC

  43. #10543

  44. #10544
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    Awesome, is it hockey season yet???

  45. #10545

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hilman View Post
    Awesome, is it hockey season yet???
    You'd sure think that with the huge swath of vinyl covering the ground floor, street-front windows...
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  46. #10546
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    What a beautiful building Rogers Place Arena is. No wonder why Calgary is jealous.
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

  47. #10547

  48. #10548

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    Yeah, seriously, what's up with all the vinyl?
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  49. #10549

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    If it was any other business, people here would be up in arms.

    But it's the arena so it gets a pass.

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    Isn't that the change rooms; because if so, I'd rather not.
    There was no need to change that plaque. We are the City of Champions.

  51. #10551
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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    If it was any other business, people here would be up in arms.

    But it's the arena so it gets a pass.
    It was brought up and discussed quite a bit. I don't know if people were up in arms enough for your taste, but most were at the very least disappointed, if not perturbed.

  52. #10552

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    If it was any other business, people here would be up in arms.

    But it's the arena so it gets a pass.
    IanO isn't policing windowrap anymore. Plus he had too much vested interest in supporting the Arena and Katz to be contrary at all now. I doubt either that its all dressing rooms its covering. So much for all that great, out of this world, world class, street level interactivity.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  53. #10553

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    If it was any other business, people here would be up in arms.

    But it's the arena so it gets a pass.
    It was brought up and discussed quite a bit. I don't know if people were up in arms enough for your taste, but most were at the very least disappointed, if not perturbed.
    lmfao. It hasn't been mentioned nearly as much as something as obscure as the 104th St Sobeys using windowrap in which case it was considered an act of Edmonton treason by certain posters here. EVERY DAY here that was being discussed with howls of protest being the norm.

    IanO and others even met with the Sobeys multiple times in effect harassing them to remove the window coverings.

    I felt sorry for the targeting of Sobeys by posters here at the time and said so. Oh, but in that case it was serious and justified targeting..

    Selective, specious, targets and all..
    Last edited by Replacement; 23-08-2017 at 09:26 PM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  54. #10554
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    Ian I believe also reached out to OEG regarding the coverings, your selective memory notwithstanding.

  55. #10555

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Ian I believe also reached out to OEG regarding the coverings, your selective memory notwithstanding.
    Yeah & the result of that was that we found out Katz got a pass to be exempt from the elementary best practices we hold literally every other business downtown to. Quite literally a double standard.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    lmfao. It hasn't been mentioned nearly as much as something as obscure as the 104th St Sobeys using windowrap in which case it was considered an act of Edmonton treason by certain posters here. EVERY DAY here that was being discussed with howls of protest being the norm.

    IanO and others even met with the Sobeys multiple times in effect harassing them to remove the window coverings.

    I felt sorry for the targeting of Sobeys by posters here at the time and said so. Oh, but in that case it was serious and justified targeting..

    Selective, specious, targets and all..



    Yeah, Top_Dawg remembers that cornholio $hit show.

  57. #10557

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    I heard from the grapevine that Sobeys actually left downtown because of the window covering dispute.

  58. #10558

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Ian I believe also reached out to OEG regarding the coverings, your selective memory notwithstanding.
    This would be considered an incredibly specious post except its you posting this find slicing of hairs. IanO certainly met with Katz and talked about Katz several times through the arena saga. My own "selective" memory recalling it wasn't to play hardball, or call him out, or lambast him.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moodib View Post
    I heard from the grapevine that Sobeys actually left downtown because of the window covering dispute.
    FAR from. They had a terribly mismanaged, gauged, implemented store along with a merger.
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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Ian I believe also reached out to OEG regarding the coverings, your selective memory notwithstanding.
    Yeah & the result of that was that we found out Katz got a pass to be exempt from the elementary best practices we hold literally every other business downtown to. Quite literally a double standard.
    Actually no. Many of us personally, through DECL and via City Planning argued against the design and certainly the implementation of the western half of Rogers Place street-level. It simply was not conceived very well, did not meet or match the intent of the Capital City Downtown Plan it to this day is far from ideal. Letters were sent, meetings were held to little or no avail.

    Simply put, it is NOT an example of how to activate or even properly design at an grade facade.
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  61. #10561
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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    If it was any other business, people here would be up in arms.

    But it's the arena so it gets a pass.
    IanO isn't policing windowrap anymore. Plus he had too much vested interest in supporting the Arena and Katz to be contrary at all now. I doubt either that its all dressing rooms its covering. So much for all that great, out of this world, world class, street level interactivity.
    Actually he is. All you have to do is look at the bylaw requirements within the zoning bylaw.

    Rule #1 of street-level/retail/urban design - transparency.
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  62. #10562

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    Yet Sobeys and Shoppers across the street are still rocking the coverings.

  63. #10563

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    Actually yes.



    Unless it offends the moral standards of the community, we've got zero say in what our tenant slaps up in our building while he holds the lease.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  64. #10564

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Ian I believe also reached out to OEG regarding the coverings, your selective memory notwithstanding.
    Yeah & the result of that was that we found out Katz got a pass to be exempt from the elementary best practices we hold literally every other business downtown to. Quite literally a double standard.
    Actually no. Many of us personally, through DECL and via City Planning argued against the design and certainly the implementation of the western half of Rogers Place street-level. It simply was not conceived very well, did not meet or match the intent of the Capital City Downtown Plan it to this day is far from ideal. Letters were sent, meetings were held to little or no avail.

    Simply put, it is NOT an example of how to activate or even properly design at an grade facade.
    In the case of Sobeys and other 104st or Jasper Avenue merchants you and others chose to make these letters, meetings, public citing each latest development and minutiae here and elsewhere. Thus producing a recoil that even resulted in people discussing a ban of the Sobeys here and elsewhere. I said at the time these were despicable developments and that Sobeys particularly, that was good enough to establish a store on 104th st, and with a design that had an urban feel to it should be applauded, and not attacked on selective grounds.

    Not a particularly good chapter here on this board and I feel people should know.

    Perhaps you're going to say you learned from this debacle (a somewhat odd position because myself and others told you what the inevitable results would be of your haranguing Sobeys.) and that you've kept this windowgate lobby in closer wraps.. Is that it? Why the double standard to publicly attack one vendor or business and not the other?
    Last edited by Replacement; 24-08-2017 at 10:11 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moodib View Post
    Yet Sobeys and Shoppers across the street are still rocking the coverings.
    Which are very odd given that some are left as windows, others as lifestyle and some just white...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    In the case of Sobeys and other 104st or Jasper Avenue merchants you and others chose to make these letters, meetings, public citing each latest development and minutiae here and elsewhere. Thus producing a recoil that even resulted in people discussing a ban of the Sobeys here and elsewhere. I said at the time these were despicable developments and that Sobeys particularly, that was good enough to establish a store on 104th st, and with a design that had an urban feel to it should be applauded, and not attacked on selective grounds.

    Not a particularly good chapter here on this board and I feel people should know.

    Perhaps you're going to say you learned from this debacle (a somewhat odd position because myself and others told you what the inevitable results would be of your haranguing Sobeys.) and that you've kept this windowgate lobby in closer wraps.. Is that it? Why the double standard to publicly attack one vendor or business and not the other?
    Respectfully, you honestly have no idea what you are talking about with regards to Sobeys, Rogers.
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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Actually yes.



    Unless it offends the moral standards of the community, we've got zero say in what our tenant slaps up in our building while he holds the lease.
    Ahem - Please note the bolded line that we tried to have, unsuccessful I might note, removed from the AED zone.

    http://webdocs.edmonton.ca/zoningbyl...trict_Zone.htm

    5. Urban Design

    General Design Regulation

    Developments in this zone shall reflect a coherent architectural style and urban character emphasizing design excellence, quality materials and sustainable features, consistent with planning and urban design principles approved in the Capital City Downtown Plan to enhance the Arena and Entertainment District.

    Street Interface

    The interface between buildings and streets is important in achieving street environments that are welcoming to pedestrians and encourage increased activity at the sidewalk level.
    Buildings, shall generally reflect the street types identified in the Urban Design Framework for Downtown Streets within the Capital City Downtown Plan, emphasizing specific boulevard treatments to enhance the pedestrian oriented character of the Arena and Entertainment District.

    Pedestrian linkages and crossings shall be identifiable through decorative paving, stamping, patterned concrete or brick.

    Pedestrian oriented streetscape elements such as pedestrian level street lighting, landscaping, benches and street furniture shall be provided throughout the site.

    Buildings designed to accommodate Commercial Uses shall strengthen the pedestrian-oriented shopping experience by:

    Bylaw 16584
    December 9, 2013
    Designing the ground Storey to a minimum Height of 3.5m;

    Bylaw 16733
    July 6, 2015
    Developing major shopping complexes and large-format stores over 3000m² to contain smaller scale retail spaces with at-Grade street Frontage as to establish a rhythm of fine-grained street oriented retail establishments. Large format stores over 2000m² shall be an integral part of a comprehensive design and not developed as a stand-alone building;

    Individual Commercial Uses shall not have a greater frontage than 70 m for each blockface;

    Providing a minimum of 60% at-Grade street Frontage for retail, services, and other commercial uses. The frontage of the arena building shall be exempt from the calculation of this requirement; and

    Bylaw 16733
    July 6, 2015
    Ensuring that above Grade parking structures are screened from public roadways at Grade in a way that does not disrupt the continuity of the street wall and the character of the zone. Screens may include, but are not limited to, public art, street fronting retail uses or other mechanisms or Uses satisfactory to the Development Officer.
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  68. #10568

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    In the case of Sobeys and other 104st or Jasper Avenue merchants you and others chose to make these letters, meetings, public citing each latest development and minutiae here and elsewhere. Thus producing a recoil that even resulted in people discussing a ban of the Sobeys here and elsewhere. I said at the time these were despicable developments and that Sobeys particularly, that was good enough to establish a store on 104th st, and with a design that had an urban feel to it should be applauded, and not attacked on selective grounds.

    Not a particularly good chapter here on this board and I feel people should know.

    Perhaps you're going to say you learned from this debacle (a somewhat odd position because myself and others told you what the inevitable results would be of your haranguing Sobeys.) and that you've kept this windowgate lobby in closer wraps.. Is that it? Why the double standard to publicly attack one vendor or business and not the other?
    Respectfully, you honestly have no idea what you are talking about with regards to Sobeys, Rogers.
    Typical IanO dismissive reaction when he has no answers to that which he's done, which is frequent enough. I've followed both respective chapters closely thanks. Philosophically as a resident and taxpayer that doesn't wish a city to be selectively funding and siding with some corporations or business entities at the expense of others, and the public, I've been very acutely aware, thanks.

    Now answer the question IanO.

    Why the very public undressing of the Sobeys that occurred here and elsewhere and why the tenderhooks and very rare mention applied to Katz etal regarding the Arena district?

    Spell it out.
    Last edited by Replacement; 24-08-2017 at 10:21 AM.
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  69. #10569

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    So you're saying you tried to prevent the double standard & failed?

    Thanks for confirming the existence of the double standard & your own ineffectual nature in enforcing something you feel so passionately about.
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    Please refer to:

    https://www.edmonton.ca/documents/PD...ay_27_2010.pdf

    &

    http://webdocs.edmonton.ca/InfraPlan...ylaw_12800.htm


    Transparency

    The ground floor level portion of the façade abutting a Public Roadway, other than a lane, shall be comprised of transparent, non-reflective, non-tinted, non-obscured glazing.
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  71. #10571

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    I'm well aware of the Bylaw & you've already shown us how the Arena is exempt from it, making it a double standard.

    single standard: everyone plays by one set of standards
    double standard: most people play by one set of standards, but not everyone. These other people are held to a different standard, causing a doubling. Hence, double standard.

    Katz is uniquely exempt from the transparency requirements & is well within his rights in the lease to festoon every nook & cranny with advertising, provided the advertising meets the moral standards of the community. Sobeys was not afforded the same leeway. So there's one standard for Katz & one for everyone else.

    A double standard.
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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    I'm well aware of the Bylaw & you've already shown us how the Arena is exempt from it, making it a double standard.

    single standard: everyone plays by one set of standards
    double standard: most people play by one set of standards, but not everyone. These other people are held to a different standard, causing a doubling. Hence, double standard.

    Katz is uniquely exempt from the transparency requirements & is well within his rights in the lease to festoon every nook & cranny with advertising, provided the advertising meets the moral standards of the community. Sobeys was not afforded the same leeway. So there's one standard for Katz & one for everyone else.

    A double standard.
    i beg to differ in your conclusion about there being a double standard. the vinyl window coverings are no different than those for monument signage and pylon signs. it's not a double standard, there's just one set of rules for the rest of us and another set of rules for the ice district.

    [IMG]
    20161104_093422 by cdnklc, on Flickr[/IMG]

    [IMG]
    20161104_093054 by cdnklc, on Flickr[/IMG]
    Last edited by kcantor; 24-08-2017 at 11:06 AM.
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  73. #10573

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    So you're saying it's not one double standard on vinyl window coverings but a whole systemic range of double standards covering all sorts of things?

    I can get behind that correction.
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    Keep in mind that the AED zone is a unique zone and allows for other things than the regular zoning. Not making excuses, but Council did approve this.
    www.decl.org

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  75. #10575

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Keep in mind that the AED zone is a unique zone and allows for other things than the regular zoning. Not making excuses, but Council did approve this.
    What benefits are there in the AED zone that mitigate or offset the negative consequences of exempting them from the very fundamental basics of urban design & streetscape development?
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  76. #10576

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    I think the gist here is that it's not this forum's double standard, or DECLs double standard, it the city's double standard.
    There can only be one.

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    I don't think that's the real argument here, it is that we had an opportunity and missed it on that 100' stretch.
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Keep in mind that the AED zone is a unique zone and allows for other things than the regular zoning. Not making excuses, but Council did approve this.
    keep in mind that the aed zone is not interchangeable with "the ice district". some of those monument signs and pylon signs are on city sidewalks/roadways (i.e. not even on the actual adjacent properties) adjacent to core commercial arts zoning which - as you know - extends from the property line to the centre of the adjacent roadway.

    not making excuses but the pylon signs on the west side of 101st street and the south side of 104 avenue and the monument signs on the south side of 104 avenue and the east side of 102 street are not in the aed zone.
    Last edited by kcantor; 24-08-2017 at 12:29 PM.
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  79. #10579

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    I think the main issue is not totally because of the vinyl coverings. It's the design of Rogers Place and how the Oilers' workout room is RIGHT behind those coverings. Had instead there been a Oilers storefront or something else in the design... it would be totally different. Maybe someday they can upgrade to screens in the windows or other installations. But otherwise this was going to happen from the get go with the design and I don't really see a way around it either.

    If I had to say.. my biggest fault with Rogers Place was 100% the street front interaction design for 104 Ave for the arena portion. It doesn't improve until you hit the entrance/casino area.

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    There had been initial designs/hopes to have a CRU/restaurant on the SWC of the building/NEC of the intersection.
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  81. #10581

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    There had been initial designs/hopes to have a CRU/restaurant on the SWC of the building/NEC of the intersection.
    Sadly the Oilers/Oil Kings locker room plans ate up like 85% of the floor plan for ground level.

  82. #10582

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    Such a shame we used those off-the-shelf arena plans instead of getting a bespoke, custom set made up by pros who deal only in arenas with the dressing room someplace where it doesn't destroy the streetscape interaction. Maybe we could have gotten the restrooms right on the first try too. But nope, we went with Arenas-R-Us spec plans & therefore it's completely understandable & justified that Rogers Place doesn't have to do the right things we expect from businesses.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  83. #10583

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    There's plenty of underground parking space that would be perfect for a workout room of only they cared.
    There can only be one.

  84. #10584

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Such a shame we used those off-the-shelf arena plans instead of getting a bespoke, custom set made up by pros who deal only in arenas with the dressing room someplace where it doesn't destroy the streetscape interaction. Maybe we could have gotten the restrooms right on the first try too. But nope, we went with Arenas-R-Us spec plans & therefore it's completely understandable & justified that Rogers Place doesn't have to do the right things we expect from businesses.
    Even looking at corporate gain what nature of silly design would put such things as dressingrooms on ground level at exterior of building thus greatly limiting street front interactivity and merchandising that could otherwise occur there?

    I can't even fathom a reason to put the dressingrooms where they are.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

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    The constricted site had a lot to do with it, but again, not making excuses...just reporting back some of the information.
    www.decl.org

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  86. #10586

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    The constricted site had a lot to do with it, but again, not making excuses...just reporting back some of the information.
    Constrained site? You seem to forget the land that "constrains" the arena to where it is predominately owned by Katz/OEG & he's got the city wrapped around his finger to the point we literally sold him a street. If there had been a will, there'd have been a way.
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    [QUOTE=Replacement;844898]

    Even looking at corporate gain what nature of silly design would put such things as dressingrooms on ground level at exterior of building thus greatly limiting street front interactivity and merchandising that could otherwise occur there?
    QUOTE]

    I have to believe this was a conscious decision by the Katz Group to ensure that the majority of patrons entering/exiting Rogers Place would pass through the middle of Ice District with its accompanying shops, restaurants, theatre, etc.... If you will remember the pedway was so much of a priority for the Katz Group that they decided to fund the majority of the cost of it when it looked like it was going to be "value engineered" out of the project by the City. No doubt that Ice District has had a very positive impact on the downtown business but make no mistake that Katz is banking on keeping a huge share of the peripheral revenue within its confines once it is fully built out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Such a shame we used those off-the-shelf arena plans instead of getting a bespoke, custom set made up by pros who deal only in arenas with the dressing room someplace where it doesn't destroy the streetscape interaction. Maybe we could have gotten the restrooms right on the first try too. But nope, we went with Arenas-R-Us spec plans & therefore it's completely understandable & justified that Rogers Place doesn't have to do the right things we expect from businesses.
    Even looking at corporate gain what nature of silly design would put such things as dressingrooms on ground level at exterior of building thus greatly limiting street front interactivity and merchandising that could otherwise occur there?

    I can't even fathom a reason to put the dressingrooms where they are.
    i don't like the street treatment and i have to believe there was a better resolution from an urban design perspective architecturally for the glazing (my projects prohibit tenants from treating them with vinyl like that as a lease restriction without relying on the city).

    as for the location of the dressing rooms, it is after all a hockey arena first and the dressing rooms will always be at the same level as the ice surface. that's a user requirement, not an "off the shelf arena design component" and it's one design restriction that probably isn't terribly flexible.

    they could likely have been shifted the dressing rooms away from the corner enough to allow something else to activate the street (and shift the lounge at that level to the street as part of some component shuffling) but all in all the north side of 104 is a disappointment despite the efforts devoted to minimizing the impact of the pedway which end up only accentuating the failure at the street level.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

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    My head hurts. We're talking the vinyl on the SW corner? Aren't the benches clear on the other side?
    ... gobsmacked

  90. #10590

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Such a shame we used those off-the-shelf arena plans instead of getting a bespoke, custom set made up by pros who deal only in arenas with the dressing room someplace where it doesn't destroy the streetscape interaction. Maybe we could have gotten the restrooms right on the first try too. But nope, we went with Arenas-R-Us spec plans & therefore it's completely understandable & justified that Rogers Place doesn't have to do the right things we expect from businesses.
    Even looking at corporate gain what nature of silly design would put such things as dressingrooms on ground level at exterior of building thus greatly limiting street front interactivity and merchandising that could otherwise occur there?

    I can't even fathom a reason to put the dressingrooms where they are.
    i don't like the street treatment and i have to believe there was a better resolution from an urban design perspective architecturally for the glazing (my projects prohibit tenants from treating them with vinyl like that as a lease restriction without relying on the city).

    as for the location of the dressing rooms, it is after all a hockey arena first and the dressing rooms will always be at the same level as the ice surface. that's a user requirement, not an "off the shelf arena design component" and it's one design restriction that probably isn't terribly flexible.

    they could likely have been shifted the dressing rooms away from the corner enough to allow something else to activate the street (and shift the lounge at that level to the street as part of some component shuffling) but all in all the north side of 104 is a disappointment despite the efforts devoted to minimizing the impact of the pedway which end up only accentuating the failure at the street level.
    It's the workout room that backs on to the street, not so much the actual dressing room.

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    Quote Originally Posted by McBoo View Post
    My head hurts. We're talking the vinyl on the SW corner? Aren't the benches clear on the other side?
    the benches are on the south (104 avenue) side of the building:

    http://www.rogersplace.com/concourse-maps/
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  92. #10592

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    Much like the rule of "no pedways over major roads" and "No more surface parking", the arena is exempt from all sorts of things that the great unwashed masses have to follow. It's not as if the city was actually paying/owning the arena now, is it? Oh, wait.....

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    ^^^
    you're not likely to want the workout room on a different level than the dressing room etc.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Much like the rule of "no pedways over major roads" and "No more surface parking", the arena is exempt from all sorts of things that the great unwashed masses have to follow. It's not as if the city was actually paying/owning the arena now, is it? Oh, wait.....
    the "no pedway over gateway/major roads" was first broken for macewen, not the arena.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  95. #10595

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    Yes, but not on the scale of the monstrosity over 104th ave.

  96. #10596

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    I think I missed the whole deal with the Sobeys. I remember a lot of people on here bashing downtown and its peoples because of the failure of that store- the idea that a place as busy as downtown Edmonton couldn't handle a Sobeys was considered damning, and an indictment of the whole area. Of course, others pointed out that the much cheaper Save-On Foods was only a few blocks down.

  97. #10597

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Such a shame we used those off-the-shelf arena plans instead of getting a bespoke, custom set made up by pros who deal only in arenas with the dressing room someplace where it doesn't destroy the streetscape interaction. Maybe we could have gotten the restrooms right on the first try too. But nope, we went with Arenas-R-Us spec plans & therefore it's completely understandable & justified that Rogers Place doesn't have to do the right things we expect from businesses.
    Even looking at corporate gain what nature of silly design would put such things as dressingrooms on ground level at exterior of building thus greatly limiting street front interactivity and merchandising that could otherwise occur there?

    I can't even fathom a reason to put the dressingrooms where they are.
    i don't like the street treatment and i have to believe there was a better resolution from an urban design perspective architecturally for the glazing (my projects prohibit tenants from treating them with vinyl like that as a lease restriction without relying on the city).

    as for the location of the dressing rooms, it is after all a hockey arena first and the dressing rooms will always be at the same level as the ice surface. that's a user requirement, not an "off the shelf arena design component" and it's one design restriction that probably isn't terribly flexible.

    they could likely have been shifted the dressing rooms away from the corner enough to allow something else to activate the street (and shift the lounge at that level to the street as part of some component shuffling) but all in all the north side of 104 is a disappointment despite the efforts devoted to minimizing the impact of the pedway which end up only accentuating the failure at the street level.
    Being on the same level as the ice surface does not mean they have to be located on the periphery of the building. Also, I've always felt that a better arena design would have the ice at parking lot level, and thus submerged, and thus with such things as dressing rooms underground. The only parking lot at that level should be loading docks, parking for players, performers etc and a secure area. This would also mitigate the amount of horizontal conveyance to get people to their seating level. As it is in the arena design its up, up, up. inferior in that way to even the design of Rexall whereupon you enter the building efficiently at mid level which means less distance to get to ones seat.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

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    ^ Serious question: has anyone here actually bothered watching these ICE Level vids since the arena opened? I haven't. I was glued to it during construction and was eager for updates, but now I find them a bit superfluous.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    If only Youtube had some sort of feature to see how many people had viewed a video. They could call it views, even!

    Sarcasm aside, looks like they get in the low hundreds of views. That wouldn't count views on the Oilers/NHL page, though. But yeah, certainly not a wide audience.

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