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Thread: Hudson's Bay buying Saks

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    Good luck for us actually getting a Sak's store and not the discount store. Holt can't even bother upgrading our store.

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    Not sure how the Bay downtown does compared to others in the city. Would be real nice to have a Saks open downtown in one of the many new developments on the horizon but that will depend on how they wish for Bay and Saks stores to compete.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NGlenora View Post
    Good luck for us actually getting a Sak's store and not the discount store. Holt can't even bother upgrading our store.
    I don't understand the need for negativity here. If HBC is successful with this, we will see our store. Our three biggest cities are obviously more likely to see this first but a Sak's in Southgate, West Ed or DT would hardly be surprising.

    The article clearly states a potential 7 locations. Even with 2 locations in Toronto, it's hard to imagine Edmonton to not be in that mix. This is hardly like Nordstom's where they need time to learn the market (avoiding Montreal for example).

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    ^ Nordstrom also can't find real estate in Edmonton for a location. That's the biggest factor. Cadillac Fairview has been the facilitator of this in other markets (like Calgary).

    According to their portfolio map, Cadillac Fairview has no properties here.

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    Saks in the podium of Aimco tower?

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    Large (mall) retail space in this city appears to be very tight unless you want to open up a big box store on the outskirts of the city.

    Quite a move for HBC though. A few years ago I think many people wondered if the Bay was going to survive.

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    Finding a suitable location for Saks in Edmonton might be a challenge, though some sort of Saks shop-in-store might work within Hudson's Bay's 237,000 square foot Southgate Shopping Centre store. The West Edmonton Mall Hudson's Bay, at only 164,000 square feet, would likely be too small for any Saks configuration. Downtown Edmonton's Holt Renfrew, one of the chain's lesser-performing stores, could see a reduction in sales with a Saks opening in one of Edmonton's suburban malls.
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    This article is a little deceiving (no blame at the poster)
    The Parent Company of the Bay (Lord & Taylor) is actually making the pitch, I believe
    Still waiting for the Arlington site to be reborn .......

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    Remind me my school time. We went to a sake's store, try on $300 jeans, and try to figure out why it worth the money. Oh, time passed by.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bolo View Post
    Saks in the podium of Aimco tower?
    Was thinking this as well. There's a few opportunities to get creative with new developments springing up.

    I'm probably only thinking this because the Bank of Montreal building reminds me so much of the Sears building in DT Vancouver that's turning into Nordstroms, but that building has always screamed major retail to me. Am I crazy?

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    The Bay in downtown Toronto (i know its the companies flagship) is literally night and day compared to their locations here, even the downtown calgary Bay looks nothing like the Bays here;
    With the arena going ahead, this is oxford/bays opportunity to transform the downtown Bay into something high class or a saks, but doubt they have any plans.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blueline View Post
    This article is a little deceiving (no blame at the poster)
    The Parent Company of the Bay (Lord & Taylor) is actually making the pitch, I believe
    I believe they've reorganized the whole company now... and Hudson's Bay Company owns Lord & Taylor. They (HBC) are the one making the purchase.

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    With 7 locations, you can easily have Toronto (x2), Ottawa, Montreal, Calgary, Edmonton and Vancouver.

    But they might try to avoid competing with Nordstrom initially (ie, skipping Ottawa and Calgary). but you just never know.

    I personally think that Saks is higher end than Nordstrom. It is more like Holt or Neimann in the US

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    Quote Originally Posted by christopherj View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Blueline View Post
    This article is a little deceiving (no blame at the poster)
    The Parent Company of the Bay (Lord & Taylor) is actually making the pitch, I believe
    I believe they've reorganized the whole company now... and Hudson's Bay Company owns Lord & Taylor. They (HBC) are the one making the purchase.
    I think you'll find the whole portfolio is owned by NRDC Equity Partners out of New York.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perspective View Post
    The Bay in downtown Toronto (i know its the companies flagship) is literally night and day compared to their locations here, even the downtown calgary Bay looks nothing like the Bays here;
    With the arena going ahead, this is oxford/bays opportunity to transform the downtown Bay into something high class or a saks, but doubt they have any plans.
    Yeah - I was thinking the same thing. The article says that, as one option, the Bay might transform some of it's stores in Saks stores.

    Given that people working/living downtown will have easy LRT access to both the Kingsway and Southgate Bay stores starting next year, it might be cool to see the City Centre Bay store turned into a Saks.

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    I'm sure they use the HBC name because of the prestige of being a chartered company and one of the oldest in North America, and have all the brands under that name for marketing. Obviously NRDC is the really owner.

    If Sak's opened in downtown that may force Holt to up its game in Edmonton.

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    One of the options given in an interview I woke up to this morning was that the HBC's could have some SAKS kiosks/departments to begin with.

    Eve

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    Quote Originally Posted by bolo View Post
    Saks in the podium of Aimco tower?
    How about in the Commerce Place podium where KPMG is now?
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    MUCH better idea you have there

    That or some "nice" window mounted lifestyle photos of accountants hard at work for their space at KPMG
    Last edited by Blueline; 30-07-2013 at 07:38 AM.
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    the KR building please...
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    ^^ Even better idea... Saks in Commerce, Nordstrom in Aimco? (or other way around...)

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    Saks opening a standalone store in the arena district is always possible. It would be a pity to see Saks following the flock to WEM, but that's going to be the most likely scenario.
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    While it'd be great to have a Saks downtown, is it really realistic to expect that DT would be chosen over more fertile ground (in terms of revenue/psf) like WEM or Southgate?

    Just don't think downtown Edmonton is "there yet" for something like that.

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    ^Depending on the timeframe of when they want to move in, but a newly constructed building for the store would be a very good reason to locate downtown. And there are a couple of buildings on the horizon. I think DT is ripe for a Saks. Increasingly, I see more and more shoppers visiting Holt, and the one complaint they have in common is that it's too small, with not enough selection.

    Heck, even if that don't get into a new building (or don't want to wait for one), renovating the Bay into a Saks would be an astute move. The DT Bay is always empty, I think more people use it as a mall entrance/exit than actually shop in there. The main issue I have is with the hideous exterior of City Centre.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bolo View Post
    Increasingly, I see more and more shoppers visiting Holt, and the one complaint they have in common is that it's too small, with not enough selection.
    not to get too off topic. but i always find it interesting the edmonton holt's has a holt's cafe. it's been there for years. i think only t.o and montreal have the other cafes. and it's pretty good (even price wise)

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    I think it might depend on the projects announced around the arena. Perhaps the favorite for a Saks location is WEM. However, I also think if there's a Nordstrom store announced for downtown, Saks wouldn't be far behind.
    Last edited by The_Cat; 30-07-2013 at 12:01 AM.
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    Is there really demand for a Saks store in downtown, even at this point?
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    Holt Renfrew and Henry Singer would have pulled out downtown ages ago if the demand wasn't there
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    Talked to one of the managers at the Bay. Rumour they're hearing is Saks purchase would have large implication for most stores.

    Specifically, they're hearing that the downtown Bay could be acquiring more floor space, ie. third floor or into the mall a bit further.
    www.decl.org

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    Quote Originally Posted by bolo View Post

    Heck, even if that don't get into a new building (or don't want to wait for one), renovating the Bay into a Saks would be an astute move. The DT Bay is always empty, I think more people use it as a mall entrance/exit than actually shop in there. The main issue I have is with the hideous exterior of City Centre.
    Very "astute". They could then have an empty Saks instead.

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    Default W E M could get a Saks 5th Ave

    Saks Fifth Avenue could open at West Edmonton Mall. The mall is actively courting upscale retailers and it is reported that Saks could be next.
    http://www.retail-insider.com/2013/0...-edmonton.html
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    ^ Lets hope not...
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    That doesn't surprise me, although not what I'd like to see. I predicted as much. But they're also opening 35 'Saks off 5th' stores too, one of which is likely to be downtown. Or vice versa
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    hmmm one of the largest shopping malls, has high foot traffic no matter the day, has proven itself a success for retailers (simons) and an owner that is actively pursuing stores to open there vs city centre mall that could not sustain a Gap store. I know which one I would choose if I was interested in making a profit.

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    RETAIL-INSIDER ‏@RetailInsider
    HBC CEO Jerry Storch says up to 7 @saks locations in Canada, will continue renovating @hudsonsbay stores
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    I wonder if HBC would be interested in an HBC store and a Sak's in downtown?
    LRT is our future, time to push forward.

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    I'll believe renos when I see them. Kingsway is a dump.
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    The downtown location is also a dump - it feels like being in a Bay in Red Deer or something.
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    Let's face it all the Bay stores are in need of major renovations.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco View Post
    Let's face it all the Bay stores are in need of major renovations.
    Agree. W E M is using duct tape to hold down torn carpet.
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    I know it's controversial, but i'd say WEM is their least-bad operation.

    It's a sad state of affairs when the City's indisputable best department store doesn't even sell hard goods (Simons) and the (arguable) second best not only doesn't sell hard goods but also doesn't sell women's or children's products (Harry Rosen.)

    And funny, as far behind in Edmonton as Hudson's Bay is, Holts is even worse. It looks like a cramped "hello 90's" flea market.

    Thank goodness for Simons (and Rosen.)

    May HBC quickly get something going.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

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    Southgate location is decent. Not amazing, but decent.

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    Southgate is probably the best looking HBC location in the city.
    LRT is our future, time to push forward.

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    That's not saying much though, flagship HBCs in other cities from Victoria to Montreal are way nicer.
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    Southgate is decent, and it's bigger than WEM, but I always get better service at WEM and the brand mix is better.

    WEM HB also seems to look better, maybe it's just me but I think the lighting is different - Southgate feels like it has old industrial fluorescents from the 1960s, while WEM HB just feels flashier and warmer.

    I haven't paid careful attention to the interior decor but I thought it favoured WEM too. I seriously feel like I'm in Woodward's Bargain Store when I go to Southgate's top floor.

    Downtown is funny. I always feel like the first customer they've met or something. Not that they serve badly, just they seem, surprised or something.

    Kingsway might be worst, but Londonderry feels like a different company entirely. Would be nice if they'd get with the Londonderry resuscitation party.
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    http://www.retail-insider.com/retail-insider/2015/6/cf
    Landlord Cadillac Fairview has bought Target’s leases at Calgary’s Chinook Centre and Market Mall. The move could facilitate Saks Fifth Avenue’s entry into the Calgary market, according to multiple sources.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    http://www.retail-insider.com/retail...15/8/saks-west

    Saks Fifth Avenue's off-price division Saks OFF 5TH will open its first Western Canadian location at Calgary's CrossIron Mills. Opening in September of 2016, the 30,000 square foot store is the fourth Canadian location confirmed by Saks, which plans to operate up to 25 OFF 5TH locations in Canada over the next five years and open as many as eight locations in 2016.
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    ^Please don't be Kingsway, please don't be Kingsway.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenSPACE View Post
    ^Please don't be Kingsway, please don't be Kingsway.
    Why? It's not a full blown department store - just another discount spin off.....does it make a difference where it goes?

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    It is a bit of a destination and ECC needs some help.
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    It is a bit of a destination and ECC needs some help.
    They won't be paying that $$ rent to be at ECC. I have been to many of Saks 5th and they are always in the burps or some secondary mall...except for 1 that was downtown: Seattle a block or next block to Nordstrom. Which now reminds me how much I enjoy visiting Seattle...great long weekend getaway.

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    The airport mall seems likely.

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    I would much rather see a proper Saks Fifth in downtown (CC mall or otherwise), don't care where Saks Off 5th opens.
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    I think that Saks would really help in the City Centre Mall, but I think they might wait and see what CCM`s plans are.
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    I heard something about something a while ago...

    Wonder if that still happens.
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    Saks is coming to Chinook Centre in Mooville, in the former Target. Hope Edmonton is next.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    Awesome! We get to buy the crap at our Saks Off 5th that Calgary doesn't buy at their mainline Saks store and ships off to Edmonton! Woo hoo!
    Demographically, I'm not surprised at this decision though...

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    Quote Originally Posted by jamesacer View Post
    Awesome! We get to buy the crap at our Saks Off 5th that Calgary doesn't buy at their mainline Saks store and ships off to Edmonton! Woo hoo!
    Demographically, I'm not surprised at this decision though...
    How often would/will you shop at Saks Off 5th? Or even at a regular Sak's? Never I am guessing....who cares....

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    I used to shop at Off Saks in the USA, until they started peddling the direct to outlet branded crap. Very little 2nd run clearance merchandise at Off Saks these days...I expect nothing different at Edmonton's Off Saks. So in fairness, we won't get Calgary's leftovers, just direct to outlet junk.
    Having a mainline Saks would be nice in Edmonton. Having another upscale merchandise vendor would be good for the city (still waiting for Nordstroms...) and would serve to keep the Holts and Harry Rosen's on their toes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jamesacer View Post
    Awesome! We get to buy the crap at our Saks Off 5th that Calgary doesn't buy at their mainline Saks store and ships off to Edmonton! Woo hoo!
    Demographically, I'm not surprised at this decision though...
    Demographics? Sorry, but I call BS.
    There are lots of wealthy people in Edmonton that can afford to go to Saks anytime. Lots of millionaire small business owners here. They just don't want to waste money on expensive junk. How do you think they stayed rich?

    But I would say that our brothers and sisters in Calgary have slightly more expensive tastes than us, and are more willing to show off. Typical nature of office professionals. Unfortunately, opening Saks in Calgary when their local economy is hit harder than say Edmonton, is well...interesting. It could be perhaps that there was available space in Calgary, and nothing currently suitable in Edmonton.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill View Post
    Demographics? Sorry, but I call BS.
    There are lots of wealthy people in Edmonton that can afford to go to Saks anytime. Lots of millionaire small business owners here. They just don't want to waste money on expensive junk. How do you think they stayed rich?

    But I would say that our brothers and sisters in Calgary have slightly more expensive tastes than us, and are more willing to show off. Typical nature of office professionals. Unfortunately, opening Saks in Calgary when their local economy is hit harder than say Edmonton, is well...interesting. It could be perhaps that there was available space in Calgary, and nothing currently suitable in Edmonton.
    I call BS on your BS. We're nowhere near as affluently dense as our southern neighbors.



    0.6% of Edmontonians make over 250K/year vs 1.5% of Calgary. Are there wealthy Edmontonians? Sure. Do we have the same sized market of affluent people? Don't make me laugh. Not by a mile.
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    By that rationale they should be opening a Saks in Fort Mac before opening one in Toronto.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    By that rationale they should be opening a Saks in Fort Mac before opening one in Toronto.
    Uh no.

    That's a per capita chart & as such the comparison really only works with like-sized populations, like say Calgary vs Edmonton.

    Maybe your monkey mind can wrap itself around this one instead.



    Do posters here practice to be as disingenuous as possible or is it just a natural skill?
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    That data has changed substantially in the past couple years, but they're still probably double us.

    Also, I like seeing "Wood Buffalo" truncated so that it's like they're cheering for Fort McMurray.

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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    That data has changed substantially in the past couple years, but they're still probably double us.

    Also, I like seeing "Wood Buffalo" truncated so that it's like they're cheering for Fort McMurray.
    Yeah, it's relatively stale data (2012) but I hoped the gap was large enough that the point would stand fairly well without people being deliberately contrarian or disingenuous.

    Hopes dashed, but you can't win 'em all
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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill View Post
    Demographics? Sorry, but I call BS.
    There are lots of wealthy people in Edmonton that can afford to go to Saks anytime. Lots of millionaire small business owners here. They just don't want to waste money on expensive junk. How do you think they stayed rich?

    But I would say that our brothers and sisters in Calgary have slightly more expensive tastes than us, and are more willing to show off. Typical nature of office professionals. Unfortunately, opening Saks in Calgary when their local economy is hit harder than say Edmonton, is well...interesting. It could be perhaps that there was available space in Calgary, and nothing currently suitable in Edmonton.
    I call BS on your BS. We're nowhere near as affluently dense as our southern neighbors.



    0.6% of Edmontonians make over 250K/year vs 1.5% of Calgary. Are there wealthy Edmontonians? Sure. Do we have the same sized market of affluent people? Don't make me laugh. Not by a mile.
    Lots of business people claim a small salary of say $60K, and a portion in dividends, for income tax purposes. Yet they may own millions in investments - housing, production machinery, buildings, etc. Are they not affluent? Net worth is a more accurate indicator of wealth, than a person's salary.

    Anyway, happy for Calgary that they got a Saks! Gives those gloomy folks some hope (and some reason to shop)
    Last edited by Bill; 31-05-2016 at 03:48 PM.
    The world is full of kings and queens, who blind your eyes then steal your dreams.
    It's heaven and hell!

  68. #68

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    Quite the generalization there, that office workers care to show off more. Here's another generalization...the affluent in Edmonton just waste their money on different things. They buy fifth wheels, boats, truck balls and buy their clothes at Costco...I suspect both generalizations are false...

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jamesacer View Post
    Awesome! We get to buy the crap at our Saks Off 5th that Calgary doesn't buy at their mainline Saks store and ships off to Edmonton! Woo hoo!
    Demographically, I'm not surprised at this decision though...
    Demographics? Sorry, but I call BS.
    There are lots of wealthy people in Edmonton that can afford to go to Saks anytime. Lots of millionaire small business owners here. They just don't want to waste money on expensive junk. How do you think they stayed rich?

    But I would say that our brothers and sisters in Calgary have slightly more expensive tastes than us, and are more willing to show off. Typical nature of office professionals. Unfortunately, opening Saks in Calgary when their local economy is hit harder than say Edmonton, is well...interesting. It could be perhaps that there was available space in Calgary, and nothing currently suitable in Edmonton.

  69. #69
    highlander
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    I dunno, you have to pay for the house and the car and most of the food on the official salary, not just the clothes. Unless you're into the fraud range of tax planning you're not in the actual "luxury" market on less than $100,000.

  70. #70
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    ^^ so what's your point? You want to go to Saks? Go head 300 km South until we get one here.
    The world is full of kings and queens, who blind your eyes then steal your dreams.
    It's heaven and hell!

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    By that rationale they should be opening a Saks in Fort Mac before opening one in Toronto.
    Uh no.

    That's a per capita chart & as such the comparison really only works with like-sized populations, like say Calgary vs Edmonton.

    Maybe your monkey mind can wrap itself around this one instead.



    Do posters here practice to be as disingenuous as possible or is it just a natural skill?
    Let me amend that then...
    A Saks in Edmonton can service high income earners in the Greater Edmonton region plus Fort Mac, Peace Country, Lloyd and all over Northern Alberta and NE BC.

    I think Bill is right, there is currently a lack of space in Edmonton's more desirable locations.
    No room at Southgate unless Sears finally dies its slow death.
    WEM Phase I is a dead zone so taking over the Target there is iffy, otherwise nothing else is available.
    Londonderry is a possibility if their reno takes them into the big leagues but that's a wait & see thing.
    Downtown could attract a location down the road, but right now it doesn't have any space large enough that is forthcoming AFAIK.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  72. #72
    highlander
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    Londonderry is not a possibility. Really Edmonton isn't any more possible than a second Calgary Store, but Londonderry really, really, isn't likely.

    Simons will do fine there, and the Bay will up their game, but the luxury market isn't on that end of town and there's no room for another department store. Don't care, though, because I love mid-market.

  73. #73

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    WEM Phase I would do well with a solid anchor tenant like Nordstroms (more egalitarian than Saks) and some sprucing up of the surrounding area. For context, the location where Nordstroms is now was a dead zone for Chinook when it was Sears. That said, I think the former Target will be split according to recent press. See following link, which is probably posted elsewhere on C2E.
    http://www.metronews.ca/news/edmonto...r-target-.html

    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    By that rationale they should be opening a Saks in Fort Mac before opening one in Toronto.
    Uh no.

    That's a per capita chart & as such the comparison really only works with like-sized populations, like say Calgary vs Edmonton.

    Maybe your monkey mind can wrap itself around this one instead.



    Do posters here practice to be as disingenuous as possible or is it just a natural skill?
    Let me amend that then...
    A Saks in Edmonton can service high income earners in the Greater Edmonton region plus Fort Mac, Peace Country, Lloyd and all over Northern Alberta and NE BC.

    I think Bill is right, there is currently a lack of space in Edmonton's more desirable locations.
    No room at Southgate unless Sears finally dies its slow death.
    WEM Phase I is a dead zone so taking over the Target there is iffy, otherwise nothing else is available.
    Londonderry is a possibility if their reno takes them into the big leagues but that's a wait & see thing.
    Downtown could attract a location down the road, but right now it doesn't have any space large enough that is forthcoming AFAIK.

  74. #74

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    My local grocery store's deli manager recently went to Tiffany & Co. to buy a jewel encrusted baby rattle for her friend's baby shower. People and their stereotypes of who shops luxury need a little wake up call. The only correlated stats are disposable income and availability.

    Edmonton easily could support a full-scale Holts or the like. Easily.

    What we need is the right built retail environment for them, which is what we really lack.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  75. #75
    First One is Always Free
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    word is that Saks 5th Avenue to open in 2017 in Skyview phase 1

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacCanada View Post
    word is that Saks 5th Avenue to open in 2017 in Skyview phase 1
    Not really, it's a Saks Off 5th
    http://www.retail-insider.com/retail...h-2nd-edmonton
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  77. #77

    Default

    Job No 235199299-001
    Description: To install (2) Fascia On-premises Signs and (2) Replacement Panels on Existing Signs (SAKS FIFTH AVENUE)
    Location: 13304 - 137 AVENUE NW
    Plan 9925108 Blk 5 Lot 3
    Applicant: PRIORITY PERMITS
    Status: In Development Review
    Create Date: 11/16/2016 1:23:01 PM

  78. #78
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    This is for their discount brand is it not?

  79. #79

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    On April 6 of this year, Saks OFF 5TH will open two more Canadian stores — a 33,000 square foot store at Place Ste-Foy in Quebec City, as well as a second Edmonton location, spanning about 30,000 square feet at the Skyview Power Centre in the city’s northwest side.

    http://www.retail-insider.com/retail...2/saks-off-5th

  80. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by sonicboom View Post
    On April 6 of this year, Saks OFF 5TH will open two more Canadian stores — a 33,000 square foot store at Place Ste-Foy in Quebec City, as well as a second Edmonton location, spanning about 30,000 square feet at the Skyview Power Centre in the city’s northwest side.

    http://www.retail-insider.com/retail...2/saks-off-5th
    Looks like it is going into the old Homeoutfiters location

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