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Thread: New beach and wading area - Hawrelak park

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    Default New beach and wading area - Hawrelak park

    EDMONTON - The city released new sketches Thursday of a possible $5-million beach at Hawrelak Park and said construction could start as early as this fall.

    Consultants with Stantec proposed a shallow wading area and sandy area between the existing lake and the main parking lot. The feature would include boardwalk, outdoor showers and lockers, and lots of space for picnic tables, umbrellas and sunbathers.

    http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/...883/story.html

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    About time!!
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

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    Now we just have to improve transit connections to the park.
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

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    Quote Originally Posted by edmonton daily photo View Post
    Now we just have to improve transit connections to the park.
    Transit isn't too bad, all things being considered, though I'll agree it can be improved a bit. The 128 and 130 both offer service to and from University Station. You do have to hike a bit from by Emily Murphy park when arriving from University, but given the road and crosswalk configuration in the area, I don't see a way around that.

    You can also catch the 130 at Jasper and 116 Street heading southbound to get to the park.

    It would improve things if both routes ran to a later hour on the weekend. In addition to providing better evening access to park during our long summers, this would provide better access between from Oliver to NAIT and the UofA, and Castledowns and Westmount to the UofA, for those students who need to work late on the weekend on either campus, or wish to participate in an extracurricular activity like sports.

    With the beach, would there be enough demand to make a seasonal minibus route from the UofA into the heart of the park? You could also extend it to run between Jasper Ave /116 street to the UofA, and have it run to Government House Park, the Victoria Golf Course, Emily Murphy Park, and Hawrelak Park.
    Last edited by Ustauk; 21-02-2013 at 02:36 PM.

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    The upside is its a cheap cab ride from dt too.
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

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    This is so awesome!!! I hope it ends up being a good size so lots of people can really enjoy it (unlike the new Queen Elizabeth pool which was almost always over capacity in the Summer).

    Bonus for me is I can bike there in about 20 minutes .

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    How is that sand gonna fair when all those migrating Canada goose land on it. It will have to be sifted, cleaned in the spring. If they can do this it will be a nice addition to the park.
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    Looks good, but without an LRT stop right at the park it will get a fraction of the use it could otherwise.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

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    Likely more Canada goose there than Canada people.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

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    Love it. The EFCL is also putting in a new addition near the SEC of the lake.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    Looks good, but without an LRT stop right at the park it will get a fraction of the use it could otherwise.
    I can't see a realistic way to give the park it's own LRT stop but if the 87th ave route had been chosen a stop at the zoo could have been added. Extend the streetcar from Ft. Edmonton to the Zoo and then onto Hawralak park and we would have been golden.

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    So it went from a $60 million project to a $5 million project.
    Sounds like from riches to rags.

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...elak-park.html
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    ^ According to that article, the $60 million project involved turning the lake into a swimming pool. Rather overdone for what's actually needed...though the article did go on to say that the bureaucrats didn't have a clue what was being asked for.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    So the rendering accompanying the article shows people bathing in what appears to be river water?...

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    Lake water. They have triathlons in it, should be safe.
    Go down a few dark alleys.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    Looks good, but without an LRT stop right at the park it will get a fraction of the use it could otherwise.
    I can't see a realistic way to give the park it's own LRT stop but if the 87th ave route had been chosen a stop at the zoo could have been added. Extend the streetcar from Ft. Edmonton to the Zoo and then onto Hawralak park and we would have been golden.
    Read between the lines: We should build this at a different park

    One with better transit access. By the Muttart would be great, and it could open in time to coincide with the LRT station down there.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

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    Muttart, Louise Mckinney Park, Lower Queen E Park, Rossdale, etc. would all be better locations for this.

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    ^how? Hawrelak is ideal.
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    Ease of access and visibility. I mean it's great to go lay on the beach anywhere, and it would be relatively quiet and serene out at Hawrelak, but I think I just have a different view of the urban beach than that.

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    I was hoping that we might be able to do something like this at Paul Kane as we..
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

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    Agreed, but the others simply wouldn't work as shown. I would love to see LMP receive some sand/volleyball/etc., but Rundle and Haw are the right locations for these.
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    I guess it's because the vision in my head for Rossdale/QE/Louise Mckinney for the future includes a little beach of some sort, so it's hard for me to wrap my mind around putting this in Hawrelak while we're spinning our wheels in those areas.

    At $5M, it's easy to imagine one in each location though. If the price was still $60M, that would have been the only beach Edmonton ever built.

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    Remember, they're building this primarily because of the triathalon. The athletes can't swim the river.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    Fair enough.

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    I like the concept design, as well as the location.

    It will also be nice for me to take my kids to in the summer.
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    I do really enjoy the idea of biking there, taking a dip, hanging around on the beach a bit, then biking home.

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    Look at it as a pilot project. If it works well here and people like it it could pop up an numerous other parks. As said above, $5 mill is chicken feed in the great scheme of things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    Looks good, but without an LRT stop right at the park it will get a fraction of the use it could otherwise.
    I can't see a realistic way to give the park it's own LRT stop but if the 87th ave route had been chosen a stop at the zoo could have been added. Extend the streetcar from Ft. Edmonton to the Zoo and then onto Hawralak park and we would have been golden.
    Read between the lines: We should build this at a different park

    One with better transit access. By the Muttart would be great, and it could open in time to coincide with the LRT station down there.

    How do you spell... fun..it...cu....lar? Connect all the above??

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    Thumbs down

    I love Heritage days and I don't want lose any of the pavilions for a beach, that will only be used for a few short months, and cost $5 million( or more) Who keeps this clean 24/7?

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    Quote Originally Posted by hello lady View Post
    I love Heritage days and I don't want lose any of the pavilions for a beach, that will only be used for a few short months, and cost $5 million( or more) Who keeps this clean 24/7?

    Heritage DAYS, is only days long!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by stinger11 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hello lady View Post
    I love Heritage days and I don't want lose any of the pavilions for a beach, that will only be used for a few short months, and cost $5 million( or more) Who keeps this clean 24/7?

    Heritage DAYS, is only days long!!!
    It brings in far more money What are they going to do, charge per sq foot of sand someone uses. Useless!

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    Quote Originally Posted by hello lady View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by stinger11 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hello lady View Post
    I love Heritage days and I don't want lose any of the pavilions for a beach, that will only be used for a few short months, and cost $5 million( or more) Who keeps this clean 24/7?

    Heritage DAYS, is only days long!!!
    It brings in far more money What are they going to do, charge per sq foot of sand someone uses. Useless!

    Other than, Quality of life having no value, I didn't think that the City held festivals to make money? City making money off of festivals....hmmmm????

  33. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Remember, they're building this primarily because of the triathalon. The athletes can't swim the river.
    We can build an artificial lake anywhere. Kinda like the one we built at Hawrelak. There's a ton of unused land around Muttart that would be perfect for a new body of water and a beach. All with proper transit access. Hawrelak is completely cut off from all residential via a freeway. It's a terrible location.
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    Gather the beach may present logistical problems for the Heritage Festival, sorry, H-Days....

    But let's not forget, unless things have changed drastically, Hawrelak is Edmonton's, possibly Alberta's largest meat market - a beach would be a natural fit.
    ... gobsmacked

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Remember, they're building this primarily because of the triathalon. The athletes can't swim the river.
    We can build an artificial lake anywhere. Kinda like the one we built at Hawrelak. There's a ton of unused land around Muttart that would be perfect for a new body of water and a beach. All with proper transit access. Hawrelak is completely cut off from all residential via a freeway. It's a terrible location.

    I agree /terrible location

  36. #36

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    I like SDM's idea of a fake lake around Muttart. Maybe there could be some kind of hot tub action for the ski club.
    It's a shame but I find Hawrelak somewhat inaccessible.

  37. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Remember, they're building this primarily because of the triathalon. The athletes can't swim the river.
    Triathalon is a separate issue... I imagine they will shock the water like they always do...
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

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    I don't get why people have such a problem with this location. Even if it's not overly transit accessible, the place is packed on any given weekend or even week night during the summer, if the weather is nice. It's also extremely well connected with the trail system in the river valley.

    To me it makes perfect sense at Hawrelak.

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    ^agreed. It is our premier park and has good connections to it from all sides. It is central and you can LRT and walk there in a reasonable amount of time if there are not shuttle buses.
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    I don't see how Heritage Festival would be impacted. They only use half the park, and the majority of the festival space is nowhere near the lake. I don't think moving 4 or 5 tents is gonna kill them.

    http://www.heritage-festival.com/festival-map/
    Last edited by Sonic Death Monkey; 22-02-2013 at 02:24 PM.
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    ^It might even provide another attraction for families who come.
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    Short storey for yous al. A few years ago my wife and I biked down to H. Park. It was a hot day. We arrived at that little pavilian there, and hopelessly stared at the water/lake and wanted to go for a splash to cool off. As we stood there, another couple arrived on bicycles. As it turned out, it was my design instructor from 25 years ago (who is AAA by the way), and we both had the same impression of.......that little puddle.

    Build the lake!

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    Quote Originally Posted by stinger11 View Post
    Short storey for yous al. A few years ago my wife and I biked down to H. Park. It was a hot day. We arrived at that little pavilian there, and hopelessly stared at the water/lake and wanted to go for a splash to cool off. As we stood there, another couple arrived on bicycles. As it turned out, it was my design instructor from 25 years ago (who is AAA by the way), and we both had the same impression of.......that little puddle.

    Build the lake!
    Correction....Story.....

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    ^How would that work though if the city built a lake to swim in at a city park. Would they be responsible to have life guards on duty to make sure no one gets into difficulties? Just wondering.
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    a "shallow wading area" probably doesn't require a lifeguard. I can't see it being any deeper than the fountain at City Hall.

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    Medicine Hat: Eco Dale Park.....has a lifeguard during the day; close the park at night. Nice sandy beach and lake, clear water, nice swim it was.....

  47. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by stinger11 View Post
    Medicine Hat: Eco Dale Park.....has a lifeguard during the day; close the park at night. Nice sandy beach and lake, clear water, nice swim it was.....
    http://www.medicinehat.ca/index.aspx?page=1073

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    ^agreed. It is our premier park and has good connections to it from all sides. It is central and you can LRT and walk there in a reasonable amount of time if there are not shuttle buses.
    Building up better infrastructure there builds a case for better (edit) ets service.

    I am just concerned that it is missing from the conversation.
    Last edited by edmonton daily photo; 24-02-2013 at 08:43 AM.
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    If there was a valley zoo lrt station you'd be a 5 minute walk from the nearest lrt station to this beach. The closest lrt now is about 45 min walk away...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    If there was a valley zoo lrt station you'd be a 5 minute walk from the nearest lrt station to this beach. The closest lrt now is about 45 min walk away...
    I don't get the impression you've walked around this area much. You can easily walk from Health Sciences station to Hawrelak in half an hour. Valley Zoo to the Hawrelak lake/pond is probably more like fifteen minutes.

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    Or how about a permanent bus route between Health Sciences and Hawrelak Park?
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    Quote Originally Posted by PrairieBoyinExile View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    If there was a valley zoo lrt station you'd be a 5 minute walk from the nearest lrt station to this beach. The closest lrt now is about 45 min walk away...
    I don't get the impression you've walked around this area much. You can easily walk from Health Sciences station to Hawrelak in half an hour. Valley Zoo to the Hawrelak lake/pond is probably more like fifteen minutes.
    Families with children or seniors will not make that walk. If we build this, it needs to be somewhere way more accessible.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  53. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by PrairieBoyinExile View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    If there was a valley zoo lrt station you'd be a 5 minute walk from the nearest lrt station to this beach. The closest lrt now is about 45 min walk away...
    I don't get the impression you've walked around this area much. You can easily walk from Health Sciences station to Hawrelak in half an hour. Valley Zoo to the Hawrelak lake/pond is probably more like fifteen minutes.
    walked this many times with my daughter. It's over 30 minutes for sure. I could probably do the walk in 20 mins at a very brisk pace, but most people will take 45 mins.
    Valley Zoo LRT station location to Hawrelak pond would be 5-10 minutes. The Zoo itself would be another 5-10 minutes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Or how about a permanent bus route between Health Sciences and Hawrelak Park?
    You mean like the 128 or the 130 bus that already exists? Or do you think there would be enough demand for a permanent route only for health science and HP?
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    ^ I was thinking more like a bus going right inside Hawrelak Park to the parking lot where they are usually stationed for Heritage Fest. It can be a seasonal weekend route. If this can be the 128 or 130, great.

    But in any case, there are transit stops on top of the Emily Murphy bridge (whatever it's called) then what's with all this whining about public transit access?
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    I just don't see how accessibility is a concern when Hawrelak is already one of the busiest parks in the city, year round.

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    plus hawrelak has extra amenities that are not that plentiful in other parks such as the pedal boats, grills for picnicking, PLENTY of space for soccer, Frisbee etc.. plus its "seclusion" from the city is something i personally like. The beach is a natural step for this park; you can make a day of bbq, soccer and laying on the sand.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    How is that sand gonna fair when all those migrating Canada goose land on it. It will have to be sifted, cleaned in the spring. If they can do this it will be a nice addition to the park.
    That's the thing with these weird lake "beaches", there's no tide to refresh them and they tend to get pretty skanky fairly quickly unless they're regularly maintained. Though I assume maintenance has been taken into account and included in the budget?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Or how about a permanent bus route between Health Sciences and Hawrelak Park?
    I would make it form dt or Oliver.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    ^ I was thinking more like a bus going right inside Hawrelak Park to the parking lot where they are usually stationed for Heritage Fest. It can be a seasonal weekend route. If this can be the 128 or 130, great.

    But in any case, there are transit stops on top of the Emily Murphy bridge (whatever it's called) then what's with all this whining about public transit access?
    If history has showed us anything the 130 will likely disappear with the new LRT line opening. Which is unfortunate
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

  61. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Or how about a permanent bus route between Health Sciences and Hawrelak Park?
    You mean like the 128 or the 130 bus that already exists? Or do you think there would be enough demand for a permanent route only for health science and HP?
    Its about a block walk from Health Sciences to bus stops east and west bound by the Butterdome, where you can get on and off of both the 128 and the 130.

    On inclement days (if its raining on your way home from the beach, for example ), you can walk most of the way through the long hallway at the front of the Edmonton Clinic.

  62. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by edmonton daily photo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Or how about a permanent bus route between Health Sciences and Hawrelak Park?
    I would make it from dt or Oliver.
    As I stated earlier, the 130 runs through Oliver at Jasper and 116 Street. It could used increased evening frequency and extended hours, especially on the weekend.

  63. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    ^ I was thinking more like a bus going right inside Hawrelak Park to the parking lot where they are usually stationed for Heritage Fest. It can be a seasonal weekend route. If this can be the 128 or 130, great.

    But in any case, there are transit stops on top of the Emily Murphy bridge (whatever it's called) then what's with all this whining about public transit access?
    I people are concerned there is no direct access to the new beach area via transit for the elderly, disabled, and those with small children. According to Google Maps, it is a 17 minute walk from the Emily Murphy bus stop to the existing lake/new beach. That's for a healthy person. It take even longer for someone with mobility issues.

    Your idea of the bus coming into the park makes the most sense, as this would grant much more ready access for the elderly, disabled, and those with small children. For the example, I could see a class from Oliver School hopping aboard the 130 for a field trip to the park, walking around to explore nature first, going for a dip at the beach, and then having a picnic. Then back on the 130 for the ride home

    We just need the 130 and 128 to increase in frequency and extend there hours, to provide ready public, non-car access to the park on the evenings and weekends.

  64. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by edmonton daily photo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    ^ I was thinking more like a bus going right inside Hawrelak Park to the parking lot where they are usually stationed for Heritage Fest. It can be a seasonal weekend route. If this can be the 128 or 130, great.

    But in any case, there are transit stops on top of the Emily Murphy bridge (whatever it's called) then what's with all this whining about public transit access?
    If history has showed us anything the 130 will likely disappear with the new LRT line opening. Which is unfortunate
    I hope not. The route provides rental housing options in Oliver and Queen Mary Park for both NAIT and University students in everything from walkups to concrete towers, and even has a peak hour extension to Northgate. And it is the only downtown/Oliver direct access to the park, so I hope they keep it.

  65. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    I just don't see how accessibility is a concern when Hawrelak is already one of the busiest parks in the city, year round.
    No doubt it's busy. A few of those enjoying the park may have walked there. You'd be there all day before you found anyone who took the bus.

    Hawrelak is not inaccessible. But it definitely is not transit friendly. If you're relying on transit for a family visit to Hawrelak park it is the ONLY thing you will be doing that day. Throw in a picnic and you're looking at lugging some serious kit. Which is fine but it does lead one to consider other options.

  66. #66

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    "Next stop Health Sciences/Jubilee/Hawrelak Park Station"....

  67. #67

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    it's an 8 minute walk from the nearest bus stop... http://goo.gl/maps/8Z4RA
    A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims, but accomplices.

  68. #68

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    Many things are close to bus stops Medwards. Implying that proximity to a bus stop makes something transit accessible is much like relying on google walking maps to tell you whether or not you can actually walk to your chosen destination. It's part of the story but it ain't the whole book.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    it's an 8 minute walk from the nearest bus stop... http://goo.gl/maps/8Z4RA
    I just looked. That bus stop has extremely limited Sunday service.

    Eve

  70. #70

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    Of course it has limited sunday service. Both the 128 and 130 are for the most part, university and/or NAIT/GMU runs, and sunday service is limited anyways.
    My point is that existing runs could already be used. Increase the frequency on that, if demand really warrants it, but I doubt a beach would need find enough riders to warrant a dedicated bus for it.
    A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims, but accomplices.

  71. #71

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    My point in this discussion is that, as far as my circumstances are concerned, Hawrelak is not the ideal location for this kind of development. Those who frequent the park disagree. However, locating attractions in places unfriendly to transit users is a distinct Edmonton motif. No reason to change now.

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    As a regular user of route 128 I can attest that there is almost no one who gets on or off at the stops at Hawrelak. Most other stops have people boarding or alighting on a busy day, but Hawrelak stops are always completely deserted.

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    My point was that if I want to use Hawrelak park as a transit rider, I am rather limited in when I can go. Sundays are a good time for me to hang about near trees and water and 8pm is early even for Cinderella to be sure to be ready to meet her coach.

    Hawrelak park is a valuable resource ... for drivers or power hikers.

    Eve

  74. #74

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    Game, set and match. Good one Eve.

  75. #75

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    If there is demand for a bus to service the park, we could simply increase the frequency of the existing routes. Add more hours of service. My point is we don't need a dedicated route. I doubt a dedicated route would run past 8 pm on a Sunday to pick up Cinderella anyways.
    The only other place we could reasonable put a beach in the river valley would be at Terwilligar or Rundle Park. Putting it directly on the river is a non-starter for many reasons.
    A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims, but accomplices.

  76. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by ajs View Post
    Game, set and match. Good one Eve.
    great input to the debate. Thanks for your post. Checkmate.
    A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims, but accomplices.

  77. #77

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ustauk View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by edmonton daily photo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    ^ I was thinking more like a bus going right inside Hawrelak Park to the parking lot where they are usually stationed for Heritage Fest. It can be a seasonal weekend route. If this can be the 128 or 130, great.

    But in any case, there are transit stops on top of the Emily Murphy bridge (whatever it's called) then what's with all this whining about public transit access?
    If history has showed us anything the 130 will likely disappear with the new LRT line opening. Which is unfortunate
    I hope not. The route provides rental housing options in Oliver and Queen Mary Park for both NAIT and University students in everything from walkups to concrete towers, and even has a peak hour extension to Northgate. And it is the only downtown/Oliver direct access to the park, so I hope they keep it.
    Time will tell!
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

  78. #78

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ajs View Post
    Game, set and match. Good one Eve.
    great input to the debate. Thanks for your post. Checkmate.
    Oh Medwards you crack me up. And, you're welcome.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    walked this many times with my daughter. It's over 30 minutes for sure. I could probably do the walk in 20 mins at a very brisk pace, but most people will take 45 mins.
    Valley Zoo LRT station location to Hawrelak pond would be 5-10 minutes. The Zoo itself would be another 5-10 minutes.
    Fair enough, but you said it's a 45 minute walk; you didn't specify that it would take that long with a small child. I just did the walk last summer for Heritage Days and would be surprised if any able bodied person would take significantly more than half an hour. It's about fifteen minutes from Health Sciences to the stairs down to Hawrelak.

    I don't necessarily disagree with building this in a more accessible location, but I also find it a bit ridiculous that we can't bear the thought of a 30 minute walk in the summer. Only in Edmonton.
    Last edited by PrairieBoyinExile; 25-02-2013 at 09:06 AM.

  80. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by PrairieBoyinExile View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    walked this many times with my daughter. It's over 30 minutes for sure. I could probably do the walk in 20 mins at a very brisk pace, but most people will take 45 mins.
    Valley Zoo LRT station location to Hawrelak pond would be 5-10 minutes. The Zoo itself would be another 5-10 minutes.
    Fair enough, but you said it's a 45 minute walk; you didn't specify that it would take that long with a small child. I just did the walk last summer for Heritage Days and would be surprised if any able bodied person would take significantly more than half an hour. It's about fifteen minutes from Health Sciences to the stairs down to Hawrelak.

    I don't necessarily disagree with building this in a more accessible location, but I also find it a bit ridiculous that we can't bear the thought of a 30 minute walk in the summer. Only in Edmonton.
    It's not that we can't stand the walk, it's about transforming the city so it's less car focused...

    Like I said.. the more attractions that are found in the park the more rational for better transit. We could also make the bold move and close the park to autos on the weekends and make it transit/walk/bike only.
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

  81. #81
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    ^ Your anti-car rhetoric in every thread you post in is seriously getting old.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  82. #82

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    You are the one that has labeled it so.. not I

    Bigger centers are making bolder moves than this. Car free downtowns etc. Are we being Anti Car when we close it down to car traffic for heritage days?! Or are we utilizing the park to it's fullest?!
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

  83. #83

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    Car free downtowns? In North America?

    And heritage days is but a few days a year. Other days of the year doesn't have 40,000 people a day coming to the park.
    A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims, but accomplices.

  84. #84
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    Should remain open to cars, hell as a car enthusiast we have large meets there and love it.
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  85. #85
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    There's no reason to close the road in the park. Traffic is slow and somewhat predictable, the road is great for cycling and there is no where to short-cut to so there is not too much traffic. I'm not generally a fan of cars in parks but that's one huge park that would otherwise be inaccesible for many users, and therefore would be underused and underinvested.

  86. #86
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    spend the money on the old power plant
    Still waiting for the Arlington site to be reborn .......

  87. #87
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    It's an extremely large park. Even Heritage days (which I would safely guess is the largest event that happens in Hawrelak) only takes up around 1/2 of the park. Closing the road would limit the park's use to a lot of people and events.

  88. #88

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    ^Than why is there next to no veh traffic allowed in it During its busiest time...

    anyways its just an idea. If you want better more frequent transit... than ya have to use it.

    Maybe car free sundays. Ramp up service on that on day?!

    Do it for the month of Aug. Or start charging for parking in the park. That is another option.
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

  89. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by edmonton daily photo View Post
    ^Than why is there next to no veh traffic allowed in it During its busiest time...

    anyways its just an idea. If you want better more frequent transit... than ya have to use it.

    Maybe car free sundays. Ramp up service on that on day?!

    Do it for the month of Aug. Or start charging for parking in the park. That is another option.
    What problem are you attempting to solve by preventing cars from accessing Hawrelak?

    The reason they shut it to cars during Heritage Days is because there's what, ten thousand people down there at any one time? It would be impossible to manage that kind of traffic and parking with that many vehicles, hence the transit/walking only prohibition. Otherwise on a typical weekend in the summer, the park is not so busy that vehicles are a problem. There's a couple larger parking lots and several smaller ones, and I've personally never seen much of a problem with over subscribed parking or heavy traffic.

    So what problem are you trying to solve? If you shut the park to cars on the weekends, what you're more likely to see is a sudden drop off in the use of the park as people will migrate to others that are easily accessed by car. Not those people taking the bus instead.

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    I drive to Hawrelak once every week or two to walk the dogs at the off-leash across the river in Laurier. I have no problem with the odd event shutting down the park to traffic but to do it just for some sociological exercise is just dumb.
    Over promise and under deliver. It’s the most Edmonton thing you can do.

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    Major Win for 100th Anniversary Project at Council Committee Today

    Supporters and Presidents urged to contact Council members before next Wednesday's vote.
    In case you haven’t caught the reports in the Edmonton media today, council’s community services committee voted 4-1 in favor of constructing the water play feature next to the playground in Hawrelak Park and connecting it to the EFCL’s 100th Anniversary Project.
    This is a 180 degree turn from what was recommended by the city administration, which wanted to see the feature built near the northeast corner of the lake and in no way connected to our project.

    The committee’s recommendation will now go to city council for a vote next Wednesday.

    This is really positive news for our organization. If built by the playground, the water play feature will significantly complement our project and help raise the profile, quite dramatically, of our entire 100th Anniversary initiative and upcoming fundraising drive.

    One major reason for the change was the position taken by the Heritage Days Festival Association, which opposed the lake location as it would displace at least seven, and more likely fourteen of their pavilions. Both their president and executive director, Jack Little, spoke to the committee and it appeared that their entire board was in attendance at the meeting.

    Those voting in favour of the new location were Councillors Don Iveson, Tony Caterina and Ben Henderson, along with the mayor. Councillor Batty opposed the motion, as she thought the lake location was better and would complement the operation of the triathlon.

    Now that the momentum is in our favor, I would ask all of you to contact your city councilor and encourage them to support this new direction.

    www.efcl.org
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  92. #92

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by edmonton daily photo View Post
    ^Than why is there next to no veh traffic allowed in it During its busiest time...

    anyways its just an idea. If you want better more frequent transit... than ya have to use it.

    Maybe car free sundays. Ramp up service on that on day?!

    Do it for the month of Aug. Or start charging for parking in the park. That is another option.
    What problem are you attempting to solve by preventing cars from accessing Hawrelak?

    The reason they shut it to cars during Heritage Days is because there's what, ten thousand people down there at any one time? It would be impossible to manage that kind of traffic and parking with that many vehicles, hence the transit/walking only prohibition. Otherwise on a typical weekend in the summer, the park is not so busy that vehicles are a problem. There's a couple larger parking lots and several smaller ones, and I've personally never seen much of a problem with over subscribed parking or heavy traffic.

    So what problem are you trying to solve? If you shut the park to cars on the weekends, what you're more likely to see is a sudden drop off in the use of the park as people will migrate to others that are easily accessed by car. Not those people taking the bus instead.
    I am looking at avenues of increasing transit to the park...

    You guys are too funny.

    Two simple words send ya into a tizzy.. Car Free.
    Last edited by edmonton daily photo; 26-02-2013 at 02:52 PM.
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

  93. #93
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    I'm hardly in a tizzy. I'm telling you the most likely outcome of eliminating cars from Hawrelak: a drop in usage. Meanwhile you haven't solved any existent problems.

  94. #94
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    ^exactly Marcel.

    Long term i'd like more transit options there, but cars are not an issue.
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  95. #95
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    Oh c'mon guys, you all know EDP won't rest until he's saved us all from the dreaded automobile
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  96. #96
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    So they changed this beach from being on the main lake and moved it to a smaller lake near the playground.

    Story:
    http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/...285/story.html
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  97. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    So they changed this beach from being on the main lake and moved it to a smaller lake near the playground.

    Story:
    http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/...285/story.html
    not a fan of this plan as much as the other one.

  98. #98

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    ^Agreed, the first one immediately made me think of a beach, this one makes me think 'splash park' or some sort of water amusement park.

  99. #99
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    Sad
    The world is full of kings and queens, who blind your eyes then steal your dreams.
    It's heaven and hell!

  100. #100
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    Sounds like Luke warm council support either way.
    www.decl.org

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