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Thread: Edmonton Tower | 129.9 m, 426', 29 floors | construction

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    Default Edmonton Tower | 129.9 m, 426', 29 floors | construction

    So I thought that this thread could be much more convenient in regards to the recent announcement from the city that they are taking proposal for a new office tower to consolidate all the City of Edmonton offices in. There of course has been one of the proposal "the crossroads" put into the media and then there is also the proposal that has been submitted by Qualico. I think this thread should combine all the different threads discussing the various proposal rather than having seperate threads for each proposal. So again here is the list that I know of so far in no particular order, please feel free to add to the list if you have a confirmation of an actual proposal to the city.

    - MacLab Enterprises - The Crossroads (Jasper Ave. & 98st)
    - Qualico - Possibly at Stationlands
    LRT is our future, time to push forward.

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    John Day - Kelly Ramsey

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    I think the CoE should disregard 40% of the proposals, the ones without new towers.

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    ^ LOL... I'm glad you're not in charge of the process...

    Anyways, some the other players I could speculate put responses to the ROI in:

    WAM/Katz
    Old ATB building on Jasper
    Melcor
    Dundee (HSBC on 101)
    Gene Dub
    Citadel proposal
    Procura
    Parkdale

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    Can we make the assumption* that any and every potential new office development in downtown Edmonton is premised on the CoE being the anchor tenant? If so, then really we can highlight any potential proposal:

    - Aimco - 102nd Street Center/Manulife 2 (Going to EDC on Dec 4?)
    - Katz Group - Arena & Entertainment District Office Tower (Requested rezoning to a ridiculous height and has publicly pushed the CoE - Deal is dead?)
    - Maclab - Open Lot between Shaw and Hotel - submission has been made public
    - Qualico - Stationlands 2 - Confirmed by Ken that submission was made
    - John Day - KR block - The plans and EDC submissions are well established - no confirmation of actual submission to CoE but it can be assumed due to the lack of any other anchor tenant for these types of projects
    - Melcor?
    - Who else?




    *Assumption based on Avison Young interview where the CoE RFP was noted as a "once in 5 to 10 year" type of event. Moreover, other players have all mentioned that they haven't been able to find any major tenants to fill potential towers (i.e. Katz group being very public about it)

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    The City should look into re-using the old Remand Centre if possible. It was brought up as a suggestion by Glenn Ostrosky, an Edmonton Journal commenter who usually has some pretty wacky opinions, but I think this idea has some merit. It's central, it would add some (normaler) life to the area, particularly the park immediately to the north which is currently sketchy as hell, facilitate revitalization in the area, and it would be way cheaper to re-furbish an existing building rather than build a new one. The only problem is that it might not have enough space for all City employees. And yeah, it's pretty ugly, but it doesn't appear to be in bad shape and would be a good challenge for an architect.

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    Implosion is the best thing to do with that building.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flynn View Post
    Implosion is the best thing to do with that building.
    In a perfect world, yes, but with the realities of tight budgets, politics, and the environment, re-use should still be considered.

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    ^although how much would it cost to retrofit. Could it be just as costly?
    LRT is our future, time to push forward.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Municipal Man of Mystery View Post
    The City should look into re-using the old Remand Centre if possible. It was brought up as a suggestion by Glenn Ostrosky, an Edmonton Journal commenter who usually has some pretty wacky opinions, but I think this idea has some merit. It's central, it would add some (normaler) life to the area, particularly the park immediately to the north which is currently sketchy as hell, facilitate revitalization in the area, and it would be way cheaper to re-furbish an existing building rather than build a new one. The only problem is that it might not have enough space for all City employees. And yeah, it's pretty ugly, but it doesn't appear to be in bad shape and would be a good challenge for an architect.


    Good Gawd the 70s called...they want that kind of thinking back lol!!!

    Jesus!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Municipal Man of Mystery View Post
    The City should look into re-using the old Remand Centre if possible. It was brought up as a suggestion by Glenn Ostrosky, an Edmonton Journal commenter who usually has some pretty wacky opinions, but I think this idea has some merit. It's central, it would add some (normaler) life to the area, particularly the park immediately to the north which is currently sketchy as hell, facilitate revitalization in the area, and it would be way cheaper to re-furbish an existing building rather than build a new one. The only problem is that it might not have enough space for all City employees. And yeah, it's pretty ugly, but it doesn't appear to be in bad shape and would be a good challenge for an architect.
    Inappropriate for the required use and space.
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Municipal Man of Mystery View Post
    The City should look into re-using the old Remand Centre if possible. It was brought up as a suggestion by Glenn Ostrosky, an Edmonton Journal commenter who usually has some pretty wacky opinions, but I think this idea has some merit. It's central, it would add some (normaler) life to the area, particularly the park immediately to the north which is currently sketchy as hell, facilitate revitalization in the area, and it would be way cheaper to re-furbish an existing building rather than build a new one. The only problem is that it might not have enough space for all City employees. And yeah, it's pretty ugly, but it doesn't appear to be in bad shape and would be a good challenge for an architect.
    Inappropriate for the required use and space.
    Remand is a probable location of an elevated passenger rail station over top of 97 Street with the entrance on the new Royal Alberta Museum side.

    Unfinished LRT station is in the basement of Brownless.

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    I'm hoping that they go into an existing building...let's tighten up the vacancy rate before we go building new buildings.

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    Now a quick question though. Is there any office building in the core that has enough space for all the office requirements in one building?
    LRT is our future, time to push forward.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmcowboy11 View Post
    Now a quick question though. Is there any office building in the core that has enough space for all the office requirements in one building?
    No. They want expansion space. They do not want to get stuck without that option on their lease.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flynn View Post
    Implosion is the best thing to do with that building.


    Implosion is the best thing for many of the 60s/70s era buildings in Downtown Edmonton.

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    I'm not saying that CoE should definitely go into the old Remand Centre, just that it should at least be looked into. No, the building isn't very attractive now, but that doesn't mean it couldn't be.

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    ^^no

    ^no
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shredder View Post
    I'm hoping that they go into an existing building...let's tighten up the vacancy rate before we go building new buildings.
    Disagree. There is little out there for larger continuous quality space. We need to expand good quality options around the core which can then have other space be freed up to create more options for other tenants.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Municipal Man of Mystery View Post
    I'm not saying that CoE should definitely go into the old Remand Centre, just that it should at least be looked into. No, the building isn't very attractive now, but that doesn't mean it couldn't be.
    If the old remand center had any real value, we'd have heard purchase/lease rumors already. It's a concrete prison, not an office building. It might have uses, but it's not designed in any way shape or form as an office tower.
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Shredder View Post
    I'm hoping that they go into an existing building...let's tighten up the vacancy rate before we go building new buildings.
    Disagree. There is little out there for larger continuous quality space. We need to expand good quality options around the core which can then have other space be freed up to create more options for other tenants.
    Just out of idle curiosity, is there now a glut of potential tenants beating down doors looking for space? Or is this another case of "we just want something shiny and new" combined with some wishful thinking?
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    With the city moving into one continuous space and vacating a number of other buildings, it will give the chance for these other buildings to upgrade their own spaces to attract other companies into the core.
    LRT is our future, time to push forward.

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    So what happens to Century Place when the City vacates? Chancery Hall?
    I thought I heard one of those buildings was going to be converted into condos...

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    ^ the city won't be vacating either of those buildings.
    Parkdale

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    Quote Originally Posted by expat View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Shredder View Post
    I'm hoping that they go into an existing building...let's tighten up the vacancy rate before we go building new buildings.
    Disagree. There is little out there for larger continuous quality space. We need to expand good quality options around the core which can then have other space be freed up to create more options for other tenants.
    Just out of idle curiosity, is there now a glut of potential tenants beating down doors looking for space? Or is this another case of "we just want something shiny and new" combined with some wishful thinking?
    Wishful thinking is ever-present, but if you look at the stacking reports, you have relatively limited options out there and relatively few continuous spaces. We need more options for potential tenants, similar to the condo market where we have a higher demand, IMO, than amount good quality units available.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 240GLT View Post
    ^ the city won't be vacating either of those buildings.
    You sure about that? Century Place maybe maybe not, but Chancery has an RFEI out at the moment with some hope that it might become residential.

    The City is most definitely planning on leaving Chancery.
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    ^ Chancery I am not 100% about.

    But they won't be leaving Century. Guaranteed.
    Parkdale

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    Quote Originally Posted by 240GLT View Post
    ^ Chancery I am not 100% about.

    But they won't be leaving Century. Guaranteed.
    Fair enough.
    Have they ever considered re-skinning/re-cladding Century? It looks like it needs a good clean-up on the outside.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 240GLT View Post
    ^ Chancery I am not 100% about.

    But they won't be leaving Century. Guaranteed.
    Why? If there is a new tower why wouldn't they want to move into this new tower.
    LRT is our future, time to push forward.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 240GLT View Post
    ^ Chancery I am not 100% about.

    But they won't be leaving Century. Guaranteed.
    That doesn't make any sense. We're talking about consolidating all of the city office space into a single tower.

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    Maybe you guys should do a little digging and find out exactly what departments and services they want to consolidate into a single contiguous space.

    The city itself takes up a lot more than the 350k SF that's being asked for. A lot more.
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    Wowzers!
    Where are they planning on putting this? Kind of hard to tell by the renderings.

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    Liquor shop +
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    My-head-a-splode!

    Sadly, in the Quarters.
    A small town is a vast hell. —Argentinean proverb

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    Here

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    Holy crap would that be a nice addition there!
    Too bad it's far from downtown but would that ever be a nice building to look at in the Quarters.

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    It's not even far from 'downtown'

    Having all of those office employees walking back and forth between here and city hall would definitely help the area too. Would suck in the winter of course...

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    ^exercise!

    Love the proposal though. Bar officially raised. Goodbye half of the submissions.
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    29 floors I was told so what ~115-120m
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    From the rendering and the overhead IanO posted, I'm fuzzy on something: this development is not supposed to take the entire block, is it? IIRC BCM's Corner One development is slated for the east end of that block, I believe that would be east of where the alleyway is, we see cars parked on either side. However, the rendering (yes, a rendering) shows tiny people at the base confusing me on the scale of everything.

    Imagine for a moment heading east on Jasper from 97th; UCAMA open (even if not fully built out—structural supports down, lights on, open for business, window displays), the Dub hotel, then this, then Corner 1, and the rise of Edgewater further along. Connective tissue for the Quarters.
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    Beautiful... although the rendering shown looks much shorter than 29 floors.

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    ^horse's mouth.
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    ^I count 28-29 floors on the rendering. Lobby 3 stories, each of the balconies/open spaces 2 stories each
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    Quote Originally Posted by EdmontonsKindaGuy View Post
    Holy crap would that be a nice addition there!
    Too bad it's far from downtown but would that ever be a nice building to look at in the Quarters.
    LRT station will be a block away.

    Seems like it would have awfully small floor plates. Wouldn't the city want bigger? I'd love to see this built regardless.
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    Looks like the first submission is out

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    And it makes an E for Edmonton, well almost. I like it.
    Go down a few dark alleys.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hilman View Post
    Looks like the first submission is out
    Never underestimate our ability to choose mediocre average-ness over inspiring progressiveness. We've been surprised before, but not as often as we've been sorely disappointed!
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    Quote Originally Posted by mnugent View Post
    And it makes an E for Edmonton, well almost. I like it.
    I bet that was intentional, but the won't mention it as that would look extremely tacky as part of a pitch, but when left as an "unintentional surprise", works heavily in it's favour.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mnugent View Post
    And it makes an E for Edmonton, well almost. I like it.
    I bet that was intentional, but the won't mention it as that would look extremely tacky as part of a pitch, but when left as an "unintentional surprise", works heavily in it's favour.
    Agreed completely.
    Go down a few dark alleys.

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    Only problem is Chandos is signed on and they do not have experience in highrises.

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    Didn't they do 10830?
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    And what about the arena tower?!

    Where or where can it be?!?!?!
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    Imagine The Possibilities: Our Submission For A New Civic Office Tower
    We had already been looking at this site in particular, when the Request For Expressions of Interest came from the City of Edmonton for a new Civic Tower. We knew that the responses this RFEI would prompt from the development community would be fairly predictable. This is where we saw an opportunity. An opportunity to not only throw our hat in the ring and show what our team can do, but also to raise the bar and expectations in the community. Whether our submission is selected or not, we hope to show Edmontonians what could be built and what we think should be built for a new Civic Office Tower.

    Full submission here:
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/770w2cb21m...k%20Design.pdf

    http://redbrickinc.ca/?p=156
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    Quote Originally Posted by edmonton daily photo View Post
    And what about katz?! hmmmm
    Have you seen his publicity efforts to date? Clearly it will take an internal leak to get his submission made public. Then he'll go on record to a) chastise whoever leaked it, and b) suggest his is the bestest option 4evars and the city should choose him immediately like this isn't a competition, followed by some purple-face as a result of choking on his own foot.
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    Wow. Would be a sick 1-2 punch for the Quarters with the new hotel.

    Though my friends with the city are not too excited about it being in the middle of nowhere. How would the timeframe with the Quarters LRT station and COE tower line up?

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    ^likely a year or 2 behind opening minimum.
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    there aren't timelines for the W/SE LRT construction, though with the PPP, it will likely start later, but progress faster. i agree the redbrick proposal is a little far from city hall which may be its greatest downfall. chandos may serve better as CM than GC on this one

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    I just went from six to midnight. Wow.

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    Well I just linked the Quarters hotel and Urban Balcony to my CoE friends and they are pretty impressed. So their reaction is softening a bit now hahah.

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    Wowzers. Absolutely frawesome.

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    Any proposals yet that have some "mass" to them so another premium tenant could possibly lease some of the space too?...other than ManuLife 2...if that's even on the table.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Imagine The Possibilities: Our Submission For A New Civic Office Tower
    We had already been looking at this site in particular, when the Request For Expressions of Interest came from the City of Edmonton for a new Civic Tower. We knew that the responses this RFEI would prompt from the development community would be fairly predictable. This is where we saw an opportunity. An opportunity to not only throw our hat in the ring and show what our team can do, but also to raise the bar and expectations in the community. Whether our submission is selected or not, we hope to show Edmontonians what could be built and what we think should be built for a new Civic Office Tower.

    Full submission here:
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/770w2cb21m...k%20Design.pdf

    http://redbrickinc.ca/?p=156
    Good on them for submitting. Others would have been intimidated.
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    I like it. I also like the green space incorporated into the facade. Though all those birds circling in the drawing makes me wonder would it be encouraged for birds to nest (thinking pigeons) in the space? Would people get to enjoy the garden as well?

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    ^ the birds kind of freak me out. lol

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    that's funny

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    Now that is a very sweet proposal. For design this is for now my favorite.
    LRT is our future, time to push forward.

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    This is what happens when somebody thinks about their proposal thoroughly. Nice design. Unique. In accordance to the city's drive to rejuvinate the Quarters. Totally trumps the first proposal we saw.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex.L View Post
    It's not even far from 'downtown'

    Having all of those office employees walking back and forth between here and city hall would definitely help the area too. Would suck in the winter of course...
    Though look how much complaining we've heard from employees in the new Epcor Tower.

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    The RedBrick design has certainly raised the bar, well done. The major drawback with this will obviously be its location. Another issue imo is the design of the floor plate. The wedge shape is quite inefficient from an office space planning perspective.

    At the end of the day I think the winning submission will be from a group that has an existing office portfolio, maintains the ability to carry out this type of development. The site will be connected to the existing LRT, within a block or 2 from City Hall and have some type of access to the pedway/underground tunnel system.

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    Barring the City moving into the old Remand Centre (OK, I'll let it go), I say the best location is the parking lot on the southeast corner of 101 Street and 103A Avenue. It's a big site, it's half a block away from City Hall, will be close to the arena district (if it ever gets built), is downtown at a prominent corner location, will help spur development of other under-utilized lots, it's close to several existing City offices (like HSBC and CN Tower, making the move a lot easier!), it's across from Staples for office supplies, etc etc. Anyone have any information on this site (owner, status, etc)?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Municipal Man of Mystery View Post
    Barring the City moving into the old Remand Centre (OK, I'll let it go), I say the best location is the parking lot on the southeast corner of 101 Street and 103A Avenue. It's a big site, it's half a block away from City Hall, will be close to the arena district (if it ever gets built), is downtown at a prominent corner location, will help spur development of other under-utilized lots, it's close to several existing City offices (like HSBC and CN Tower, making the move a lot easier!), it's across from Staples for office supplies, etc etc. Anyone have any information on this site (owner, status, etc)?
    Agreed.
    A small town is a vast hell. —Argentinean proverb

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    Default Wow !!! - RedBrick submission

    I never heard of RedBrick until this thread, but kudos to them for this submission. It definitely has "landmark potential" for this city as from what I can see this design appears to be a unique (and potentially iconic) modern take on the flatiron building style.

    Nevertheless, I think that the distance from city hall will be a strong deterrent to this building becoming the top pick by the CoE for city office consolidation.

    In light of the above, I do wonder how feasible this location would be for a nice flatiron-style highrise condo (as The Quarters transforms into a place to live over the next decade or two...).

    Looking at the rendering RedBrick provided (see below), imagine the killer views of the river valley & downtown that residents living in units within the west "wedge" of this building would have if this were instead a condo tower (RedBrick would need a "plan B" anyhow for this site if the CoE doesn't choose this design...). Regardless, I'm glad to see the architectural bar raised a few notches with the RedBrick submission.

    (And yes, I know that this thread is focussed on the "CoE office" purpose of this submission... but if that doesn't pan out, I think that this location / tower design could make for an incredible condo tower, the current state of The Quarters not withstanding.)

    Designed by Atelier3AM.

    (http://postmediaedmonton.files.wordp...4127298444.jpg)

    http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/201...e-in-edmonton/

  74. #74
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    If the city were to pick this design and location I don't think they would go wrong. If it isn't picked I would still love to see this building built as I think this one building would be transformative in it's impact on the downtown and Quarters area.
    LRT is our future, time to push forward.

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    If the City is serious about revitalizing The Quarters, they will pick the RedBrick proposal.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  76. #76

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    ^ love the building, but I think the City is far more serious about making the right choice to fit their beeds at this time than it is or should be about revitalizing the quarters. Inefficient layouts and location make this proposal less desirable for this kind of Tenant.

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    I'm not so sure of that - the "inefficient" layout may actually prove to be fine, and the location itself will soon be surrounded by mass transit options, along with pedway access to virtually the entire core.

    It's not unreasonable to believe that Council would take a good, hard look at this proposal if it proves to be among the top submissions.

  78. #78

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    Not saying they should dismiss any proposals without consideration, but a triangular floorplate like that innevitably leads to unusable space, which is difficult for a government user, accountable to tax payers, to justify paying for. I do think the space would be great for other uses, but not government.

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    WOW! Thats pretty sick.

    I want to be excited for this so bad but deep down I know this is still Edmonton and we are likely going to get the cheapest ugliest proposal there is. I hope im wrong and this new CoE building changes expectations and the architectural landscape of this city but I feel like this just ends up on top of all the other "never built" projects in this city right on top of that beautiful Arena that's never getting built as well.

    Please prove me wrong Edmonton!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by 240GLT View Post
    ^ the city won't be vacating either of those buildings.
    You sure about that? Century Place maybe maybe not, but Chancery has an RFEI out at the moment with some hope that it might become residential.

    The City is most definitely planning on leaving Chancery.
    Chancery is up for a re-do of some kind. It it not up the job of housing staff for much longer due to a number of concerns:
    Full of asbestos - limits ability to complete repairs
    Floor to ceiling height with present T bar drop ceilings is 7 ft.
    Highly energy in-efficient
    Employees hate it.

    Century Place will be retained as it has been undergoing full asbestos remediation on a floor by floor basis. Considerable elevator and systems upgrades have been completed and others are ongoing.

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    'I want to be excited for this so bad but deep down I know this is still Edmonton and we are likely going to get the cheapest ugliest proposal there is.'

    Disagree full stop.
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  83. #83

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz Killington View Post
    Not saying they should dismiss any proposals without consideration, but a triangular floorplate like that innevitably leads to unusable space, which is difficult for a government user, accountable to tax payers, to justify paying for. I do think the space would be great for other uses, but not government.
    I sent this to a friend who works for the City and the first thing he noted (after being wowed by the design) was that the floorplates would be awkward for city employees.
    A small town is a vast hell. —Argentinean proverb

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    Can we assume this is in the mix?


    (http://www.procura.ca/elements/image...-tower/001.jpg)
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  88. #88
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    John Day with this?


    (http://i.imgur.com/EvjpG.png)
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  89. #89

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    ^Preference in order, all things considered:
    -AIMCO
    -Redbrick
    -Qualico
    -Kelly Ramsey
    -Melcor
    -Hotel Mac Tower
    Go down a few dark alleys.

  90. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dialog View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz Killington View Post
    Not saying they should dismiss any proposals without consideration, but a triangular floorplate like that innevitably leads to unusable space, which is difficult for a government user, accountable to tax payers, to justify paying for. I do think the space would be great for other uses, but not government.
    I sent this to a friend who works for the City and the first thing he noted (after being wowed by the design) was that the floorplates would be awkward for city employees.
    Is it really that difficult to set up cubicles in a triangular room without wasting too much space?

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    I worked in a triangular building (Nova (now Nexen) Building in Calgary) and if memory serves we had the various boardrooms in the pointy bit.

    Eve
    Last edited by EveB; 29-11-2012 at 12:45 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EveB View Post
    I worked in a triangular building (Nova (now Nexen) Building in Calgary) and if memory serves we had the various boardrooms in the pointy bit.

    Eve
    I used to work in the Nova building back in the 90s. When were you there?
    “Canada is the only country in the world that knows how to live without an identity,”-Marshall McLuhan

  93. #93

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    Quote Originally Posted by Titanium48 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dialog View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz Killington View Post
    Not saying they should dismiss any proposals without consideration, but a triangular floorplate like that innevitably leads to unusable space, which is difficult for a government user, accountable to tax payers, to justify paying for. I do think the space would be great for other uses, but not government.
    I sent this to a friend who works for the City and the first thing he noted (after being wowed by the design) was that the floorplates would be awkward for city employees.
    Is it really that difficult to set up cubicles in a triangular room without wasting too much space?
    They are intrinsically rectilinear systems. Maybe there are ways to maximize the space, but office sysems are generally built for right-angled environments. I like EveB's note about meeting spaces occupying pointy ends of angular floors, that's an option.
    A small town is a vast hell. —Argentinean proverb

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hilman View Post
    Looks like the first submission is out
    i agree!
    Thank You For Finally Going Higher!

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Can we assume this is in the mix?


    (http://www.procura.ca/elements/image...-tower/001.jpg)
    ooooo....i like this! like the height and the location
    Thank You For Finally Going Higher!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by EveB View Post
    I worked in a triangular building (Nova (now Nexen) Building in Calgary) and if memory serves we had the various boardrooms in the pointy bit.

    Eve
    I used to work in the Nova building back in the 90s. When were you there?
    From about 1990 to 1992. It was my first spot when I landed in Calgary from Saskatoon. I was mostly a contractor while I was in Calgary but I was on the NOVA payroll for a year. I divided my time there between Design Engineering and Project Engineering as a general clerical dogsbody (everything from copying and delivering documents to designing databases). At the time they still used "sneaker net" .

    Eve

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    Quote Originally Posted by mnugent View Post
    ^Preference in order, all things considered:
    -AIMCO
    -Redbrick
    -Qualico
    -Kelly Ramsey
    -Melcor
    -Hotel Mac Tower
    +1

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    "Disagree full stop."

    I will stop the negativity because this is really exciting.

    I'm cheering for the RedBrick proposal as of now because its a game changer. I wouldn't mind any of the locations from the pics above. In my opinion, the Kelly Ramsay Building and Stationlands 2 have the best chance of happening without the Cof E contract so I won't cheer to hard for those.

    I would imagine that Procura and the Katz group are also in the mix. If that's the case then that may be the 8 new proposals?

  99. #99

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    The Melcor renderings are my least favourite by far. I imagine though they would go back to the drawing board for this anyway.

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    ^agreed. Those are dated (Epcor) and a sketchup placeholder. That said, I have always loved the Epcor submission.
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