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Thread: Yellowhead Trail | Discussion

  1. #1501
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    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  2. #1502

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    There's a definite shift in culture at the city. Not sure it's for the better.

  3. #1503
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    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  4. #1504

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    Thanks for the link. I was meaning to do that survey, but kept forgetting.

  5. #1505
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    Took it. Thanks!!
    Make the RIGHT choice before you take your last breath......

  6. #1506

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    I completed the survey and offered a combo of these two ideas:

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlander II View Post
    107 should be extended as a collector road across Blatchford to 121st, where it would access the yellowhead.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cumberland View Post
    That part of the Yellowhead where it curves to the north? Perfect spot for on/off ramps.
    The collector road (call it 123 ave) doesn't even have to connect to Blatchford proper, just to the proposed interchange opposite the Lauderdale park (both 121 and 107 would be closed). It's pretty much dead centre between 127 st and 97 st, and could even be built in advance to serve as a detour during the construction of said interchange.

  7. #1507

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    I think that makes good sense, especially onsidering all that Blatchford land is currently not being used and waiting for redevelopment. There will never be a better time to steal some of it for Yellowhead improvements. Seems like a no-brainer to me. I mean who's in charge of all that Blatchford land anyway? Can't these people get together and say "I need some of that land" and "sure, I'm not using it anyway"?

  8. #1508

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    Exactly. Particularly with the recent unveiling of the LRT bridge design, I'm sure there are advantages to planning and coordinating everything together.

  9. #1509
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    Build a twin bridge beside it for AUTOS connecting 109 to Castle Downs Rd. Blatchford can go fly one.

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    I just heard tonight that the multi-hundred million dollar upgrade to Yellowhead Trail will only make it 80 km/h.
    That's baloney.
    I thought we were getting a freeway, not another Whitemud Drive.

  11. #1511
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    That could change at a later date you never know. It’s a decade away at least.

  12. #1512

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    It will be a freeway, just one with a lower speed limit. It will be fine.

    80 vs 100 is just 3 extra minutes for someone driving Henday- Henday. Which includes some parts that are already 90-100, so maybe just 2 minutes difference. That’s not worth another billion to fix.
    There can only be one.

  13. #1513

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Jackson View Post
    I just heard tonight that the multi-hundred million dollar upgrade to Yellowhead Trail will only make it 80 km/h.
    That's baloney.
    I thought we were getting a freeway, not another Whitemud Drive.
    Oh, dear, not even. I don't know how they're going to get 80 at the chicane at Fort Road. And they're apparently going back to two lanes east bound just past 97 Street to better accommodate the on ramp.

  14. #1514

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    80 km/h 50mph is quite decent for a urban freeway.

  15. #1515
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    I think the Yellowhead speed could be kicked up to 90 or 100 east of 66 Street or West of 156 Street.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

  16. #1516

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    Its already 90 west of 149, and 100 east of 50th.

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Jackson View Post
    I just heard tonight that the multi-hundred million dollar upgrade to Yellowhead Trail will only make it 80 km/h.
    That's baloney.
    I thought we were getting a freeway, not another Whitemud Drive.
    Up it 100 you say. GADS!!!!!!! That would reduce the potential revenue the city would lose from a artificially lower speed limit. Typical....so very...
    Make the RIGHT choice before you take your last breath......

  18. #1518
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    It would take a lot of modification of existing interchanges to get Yellowhead much faster than 80 km/h. 90 km/h might work, but I can't see any more than that. Even then, something will need to be done with the eastbound onramp from Fort Road. It will need to be lowered to match grade with Yellowhead earlier to provide a reasonable merge zone, and the concrete barrier prior to the merge zone will need to be replaced with something that you can see through to make it possible to pick a spot to merge into.

  19. #1519

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Jackson View Post
    I just heard tonight that the multi-hundred million dollar upgrade to Yellowhead Trail will only make it 80 km/h.
    That's baloney.
    I thought we were getting a freeway, not another Whitemud Drive.
    Groat Road is a "freeway" technically but only posted to 50kph for obvious reasons for much of the road.

    Geometrics play a large part. There are a lot of blind corners and tighter radius in some of the central areas of YHT. going faster than 80kph poses operational risks.

    I think 80kph is plenty fast for a freeway such as Yellowhead given the geometric restraints.

    Further traveling between St. Albert Trail and Fort Road going at 80kph as opposed to 100kph saves you 1 minute of time....not particularly life changing

  20. #1520
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    80 km/hr is fine as long as it is consistently 80 km/hr from city limit to city limit. A constantly changing speed limit is most annoying.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  21. #1521
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    I think 80 km/h would work fine between 66 Street and 127 Street.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

  22. #1522

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    80 km/hr is fine as long as it is consistently 80 km/hr from city limit to city limit. A constantly changing speed limit is most annoying.
    I don't have a problem with changing speed limits at all. I'd rather have that than be forced to drive 80 on a stretch where 100 is obviously still safe. That's way more annoying.

  23. #1523

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    Yeah, it doesn't really matter where the limit change is. dropping to 100 between Victoria Trail and 184 is reasonable, and then to 80 from around 66 until around 149 would be just fine. What would be annoying is jumping up and down several times as you pass through the city.
    There can only be one.

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    Make it 100 all the way through as any large city does and call it a freeway and NOT a trail.
    Make the RIGHT choice before you take your last breath......

  25. #1525

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    ya, that's just not going to work for the reasons stated above. (Short ramps, tight corners, bad sightlines, etc) 80 km/h for an urban freeway is common in many large cities. (Does winnipeg even have an urban freeway???)

    It will be called a freeway when its an actual freeway, and NO LONGER a trail.

  26. #1526

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    Isn't Deerfoot Trail a freeway?

  27. #1527

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    Not at rush hour. Then it's a parking lot.

  28. #1528
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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    ya, that's just not going to work for the reasons stated above. (Short ramps, tight corners, bad sightlines, etc) 80 km/h for an urban freeway is common in many large cities. (Does winnipeg even have an urban freeway???)
    It will be called a freeway when its an actual freeway, and NO LONGER a trail.
    Winnipeg does have a number of urban freeways as you call them similar to YHT with lights at intervals.The first advantage is the 80 KMH limit not 70 as we have here. They also have 6 lane arterials as opposed to 4 lanes here.The the core, Portage Ave is 8 lanes wide with 2 lanes off peak for curb parking. Same with Main street. Broadway is another 6 laner right through DT. Jasper has all of 2 lanes each direction..Half the size of the 2 major access roads into DT Winnipeg.Why? They PLANNED and BUILT it to be this way.All non essential traffic lights are put to flashing as NOT do stop traffic for a full light set when little traffic is present. Makes good sense to keep traffic moving does it not? They have under passes at heavy rail crossings.You know...that common sense idea that Edmonton has FAILED at. The CP traffic debacles on the South side spring to mind.Yellowhead will have all these funds spent on a mere 10 k..OR 6 mph LOLOL .Don't design nor build it properly the first time. NO NO...Do a half *** job,ala the Henday SW where ALL the growth is and THEN decide to correct the problem later when it becomes critical. Edmonton has one VERY large problem. That being,there is and has been a history of NO forward thinking,planning nor construction of the roadways. This is why we have the traffic issues we do. My question,,,,If Edmonton is so progressive a city, why can we not build for the future and maintain our roads in the present?As for winter tires........LOLOL They don't saves lives. Keeping disqualified,unskilled people off the road does.
    Last edited by cnr67; 23-09-2018 at 01:57 AM.
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  29. #1529
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    Winnipeg doesn't need to plan for growth, so there is always that.

  30. #1530

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    No kidding, Edmonton grew at twice the rate in the last half century. It's also worth keeping in mind that Winnipeg has very little by way of public transit beyond buses.

  31. #1531
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    ^ And the reverse was true for the late 19th and early 20th centuries. While it may not be a freeway, Winnipeg has had a ring road for decades. They have their own issues dating back to that era - a mix of random grid alignments and names instead of numbers on their streets - although that is no worse than the mess that is just about any post-1950 subdivision just about anywhere.

  32. #1532

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    The pre-war era was a completely different situation as far as transportation was concerned, I don't think it's comparable.

    In the context of the Yellowhead, it's worth noting that Winnipeg's equivalent, Chief Penguis Trail, is incomplete - at least Edmonton's inner ring road is drivable end-to-end.

  33. #1533

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    Why do people keep blaming Edmonton for the SW Henday?

  34. #1534

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vincent View Post
    Why do people keep blaming Edmonton for the SW Henday?
    Based on demand (congestion) it seems that the province actually built a highly successful freeway. The problem now is the delay to spend money to expand it.

    It was an early design by people whom it seems lacked perfect foresight in predicting $100/bbl oil and the inward rush of massive amounts of capital and so large increases in suburban population. The problem now is that the problem is obvious but it isn’t being dealt with.

  35. #1535
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    Winnipeg has wide roads but that has very little to do with far sighted urban planning, more the shallow river valley and muddy roads in 1800s. People would then drive their carts further over and further over to avoid getting stuck in the mud.
    They really don't have a freeway in the city, Disraeli is shorter than Capilano. There are a few interchanges scattered on some streets (Pembina, Portage for example).
    The only real freeway is portions of the Perimeter Highway.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winnipeg_Route_85

  36. #1536
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    Quote Originally Posted by sundance View Post
    Winnipeg has wide roads but that has very little to do with far sighted urban planning, more the shallow river valley and muddy roads in 1800s. People would then drive their carts further over and further over to avoid getting stuck in the mud.
    They really don't have a freeway in the city, Disraeli is shorter than Capilano. There are a few interchanges scattered on some streets (Pembina, Portage for example).
    The only real freeway is portions of the Perimeter Highway.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winnipeg_Route_85
    It has everything to do with planning. Pembina was planned for 6 lanes or more. I know this as the areas directly adjacent to the roadway had the buildings next to it set further back allowing for expansion. Which has in the past 50 years occured from the Perimeter ,all the way to Osbourne Street 5 minutes from DT Winnipeg. Portage and main were built wide right from scratch.all 8 lanes worth.Look at any historic picture to see this is fact. Disraeli is not a freeway. It is primarily a collector road through industrial and older residential areas of north-central Winnipeg. it's length is all of 2 km.The speed limit is 50 km/h (30 mph).Jasper ave has always been a narrow right of way. It began as such and as the city built close to it, the availability to expand was removed. So, how did Edmonton plan for traffic in and out of DT? Yelolowhead is supposed to be a freeway. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/freeway "A road designed for safe, high-speed operation of motor vehicles through the elimination of at-grade intersections, usually divided and having at least two lanes in each direction; a dual carriageway with no at-grade crossings." Key term...HIGH SPEED. 80 kmh or 48 MPH is NOT high speed.
    How was Yellowhead planned with expansion in mind? NOT with housing on one side and commercial on the other.For the money being spent, build a freeway..Not a Driveway...
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