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Thread: New Royal Alberta Museum

  1. #3201

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    "My museum'' is the old Provincial Museum and Archives and yes I loved it as many Edmontonians did and wish to see it repurposed to some museum. Thing is the public were never really canvassed on this. I was never asked by the museum what I preferred. As with EPL, instead the Royal Alberta Museum administration feels it requires ample spending to build something that we already had. I see this as largesse. Whatever level of govt pays what amount of it. Similarly we have a downtown library with a total overhaul after having had massive renovations not long ago.

    But in the case of building something brand new, and with all that expense its deplorable that it looks worse than the Facility standing since the 60's. I've made it clear throughout I would rather have just stayed with the old museum.

    But now we have a DT museum complete with paid parking requirement, extra paid admission, maybe they can tack on a ticket levy, and its all great because museum staff get something that they wanted. Forgetting maybe what the public wanted.
    The first instinct was to crush it up and turn it into pathway gravel.

    Same attitude could be applied to the now old Legislature Building, Macdonald hotel, High Level bridge, the aging City Hall...

    New plans for historic Royal Alberta Museum site


    “ "The conditions that will prevail once the building is removed can open up all kinds of opportunities," Chomik said.

    He said material from the old building can also be incorporated into a new green space design. Stone can be ground into gravel for walking paths, or find a second life as a park bench.

    Weather-resistant artifacts left in the museum, such as signs and plaques, can be reused as outdoor decorations.

    "Maybe that can be put into the park as a memory of what the building used to be," Chomik said. “

    http://www.cbc.ca/1.3475299
    Bolding mine


    So - create a park - backing onto - a massive river valley park.
    Last edited by KC; 19-02-2018 at 11:04 AM.

  2. #3202
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    Having the RAM being the bookend of our cultural core is going to be quite amazing, akin to a mini 'mall'.
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  3. #3203

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    Will be glad to see most of the stuff in storage out. Loved the recent Globe & Mail article on downtown.
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  4. #3204

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    Thanks KC for the above post. Its a constant disappointment that our past buildings are so disrespected. "Ground it into gravel" my, these are where the memories are and I don't know that theres a municipality that less understands that people develop connections with places, buildings, and that they want to continue. That they don't want closed, turned into rubble, vanquished.

    Indeed the connection with here is having at least some places that hold the generational memories. Of course a Provincial Museum was a much loved place like that.

    What is grossly missing from Chomiks analysis is that a "memory of a place that used to be there" that is no longer there, is uniformly a sad experience. we get this whether we're thinking about the old courthouse, old Library, post office etc. A placard saying this building used to be here is a usual slap in the face to edmontons preserved built heritage.
    Last edited by Replacement; 19-02-2018 at 11:29 AM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  5. #3205

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    I think maybe some background will assist in sharing the concern at the Geologic timescale for this new Museum opening.

    The old Ram was still being planned in 1965 and construction started onsite in Summer of 1965. The facility was finished and opened December 6, 1967. COMPLETED as a Centennial project. So just over 2yrs to build the whole thing from scratch, and start up from scratch. The Museum of Alberta used to be a small curated spot in the Alberta Legislature Carillon room.

    So that the time frame of that opening was quite impressive and serviced Edmontonians well from the start.

    The present RAM Construction was FINISHED August 2016. From indications this won't be open by August 2018 and so 2 years since Construction finished just to curate, move, install the display features. With many of the curated artifacts already accrued, in storage, ready to go.

    The old Museum had to accrue, collect specimens from scratch, build the building, design all exhibits from scratch, and open in just over 2yr time frame.

    The present building is using past artifacts, using some past displays and is taking over the twice the time from start of construction to opening.

    progress...


    Now I'll mention that children in this city have not had a Provincial Museum to go to since December 2015. By the time this one opens it could be close to 3yrs without a Provincial Museum in a Capital City. So that if you were say in grade 1 in 2015 your first trip to a Museum is likely in grade 4. That's kind of sad.

    Perhaps I feel this way because I was in Grade 1 in 67 when the old Museum was opened and it had ALWAYS been an adjunct to my education and a wonderful place to go to for all those years. A present generation has missed 3yrs not having something like this to experience here. So that age 6, 7, 8yr olds never got the chance, at the age of wonder, to experience something like this. They get it at age 10. A much different experience then.

    To me its like cancelling Christmas for 3 yrs but that's how much the old Museum meant to me and still does.
    Last edited by Replacement; 19-02-2018 at 12:26 PM.
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  6. #3206

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    The old Royal Albert Museum is really not that attractive. It reminds me of a carpet warehouse or some kind of manufacturing plant. The aerial view is not much better. Sure the exhibits and artifacts were great to go see but the building, not so much.
    The new museum seems lighter, more open, more windows. It is also in a better location for visitors.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  7. #3207
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    The new museum has warmed up on me in terms of design, but there is a wonderful simple elegance above.
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  8. #3208

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    Well to me the design is simple, simply not there.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  9. #3209

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    Just as a comment I'm aware that Museums need to be fairly dark places and that many exhibits, specimens, artifacts get deteriorated with sunlight or bright lighting. So that I've wondered why the present facility has so many windows. Windows make sense for a lot of facilities. For preservation of antiquities sunlight and bright light makes little sense.

    But in anycase the beauty of the old facility is the construction materials inside and out, and with natural relief and not polished smooth boring surfaces. Inside beautiful shale flooring that I always loved in that facility and in Bio sciences and Geology building at U of A. Indeed stepping on sedimentary fossil stone just always seemed like a natural for a museum. The new one has boring flooring which befits how boring the whole building is.

    In anycase we love what we love. The Old RAM was an adorable and beloved building that many people miss.
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  10. #3210
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    ^indeed, but time to move onto a new chapter.
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  11. #3211

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    The new museum has warmed up on me in terms of design, but there is a wonderful simple elegance above.
    As I recall you liked the design from the start. Among the 4 designs I thought it was the worst or 2nd worst. 2 others were much better. Its unfortunate they selected the High School design.

    As mentioned this is particularly a disappointing design as it fronts the Quarters, which is supposed to be the next major build out of DT Edmonton. It doesn't provide much impetus for that, or cheer for a very dreary 97st. Indeed its part of that dreary 97st now. Its visage doesn't transform it, it accepts its gloom.
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  12. #3212
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    As I recall it was ok, but having toured it a few times now it has really grown on me.

    This will bring thousands of people to the area, including 97st and will help transform the area over time.
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  13. #3213

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    ^indeed, but time to move onto a new chapter.
    Which would be easier if it hasn't taken several years for the dang thing to be open. I love museums, despite what might be seen in this thread. I just don't love the looks of this one.

    But moving on would be fine. Open the damn thing. I think its fair that the RAM should be seeing these comments as well. I've expressed similar dissatisfaction to them.

    It is my stance that 3 Family days without any RAM is unacceptable in a Capital city. That was the straw that broke the back with the latest round of frustration re this facility. Its like they don't even comprehend such concern. The curators are all completely enjoying their task and taking forever to do it. With nobody else seeing it..Speaking with them I get the impression they'd be happy taking 10 yrs to set this up.

    They don't comprehend theres impatience to get this thing finally open., you know, so the public can actually see what is supposed to be a public facilty that has been finished construction since August 2016.

    I know you may feel differently as you've been inside, got a look at it. Most people haven't and the wait seem eternal..Although we're conditioned to delays in Edmonton, perhaps part of the frustration.
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  14. #3214
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    Museums, especially large complex ones, take a long time to construct, validate and properly out fit it.
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  15. #3215

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    Next, the new museum stresses that this is a museum that believes in letting people get a peak behind the scenes. For people to see how a museum works, is curated, etc. So that consistent with that it would seem to me anyway that allowing the public in once in awhile during the past 2yrs would have been remarkably consistent with that vision and allowing people to get a unique look at how the museum displays were being built, developed etc. indeed there would have been a lot of interest in that and in line with what they say this museum offers.

    Again I never could understand how they felt that complete closure and complete finish before opening was a requirement. I'm not aware of any other Museum facility that felt the Museum had to be 1--% complete in exhibits to open. The 1967 opening had maybe 50% of display galleries finished and was still amazing. Indeed even more fascination and interest provided by knowing that the Museum would steadily have more exhibit features opening. That's part of the developing love with a new facility.

    They're making a mistake, a disconnect here by not having a RAM open for 3yrs.
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  16. #3216
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    Everyone wants it open as soon as possible, but there is 1, ONE, uno opening... let's get it right.
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  17. #3217

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Museums, especially large complex ones, take a long time to construct, validate and properly out fit it.
    But its not really this. If you look behind the scenes whats taking so long is bonkers type curation. They putting a barcode for instance on every last rock, specimen. Its complete overkill cataloguing imo.

    Again they're taking more time to curate this museum than to construct and curate and open the prior facility.

    Its just the curating and setting up displays that is taking way more time than it took before.

    9 of the diorama exhibits are also taken as is from the old facility minus the beautiful backdrops that were painted by world famous natural curation artists. Those backdrops apparently lost for ever except in pictures. Most of what is required for those 9 dioramas is moving them and setting them up in the new facility.

    But were told curation takes this much time, even though it didn't before when we had our first Museum that had to accrue, gather, curate, put together the wholly original collection without having had ANY.
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  18. #3218
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    I am not able to comment on what they are doing in there and the time it takes as I have no clue.
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  19. #3219

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Everyone wants it open as soon as possible, but there is 1, ONE, uno opening... let's get it right.
    Getting it right would have been opening it over a year ago for the reasons I explained, that it would be a fascinating way to give the public a glimpse of it in transition phase.

    But we've moved on to specious times where dignitaries such as yourself (sorry) get to look at a facility inside and out first hand several times and have special soirees there while the public get to sit on their hands and be told "just have patience" lets get it right.

    it could be your opinion on this doesn't have anymore validity than mine as you've been allowed the opportunity to see the facility several times. This apparently being todays specious version of public access. The rest of us can just wait interminable. For instance 3 Family days without it.
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  20. #3220

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    Opening it early for the sake of an anxious public before it's ready seems odd.
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  21. #3221

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    I am not able to comment on what they are doing in there and the time it takes as I have no clue.
    Ftr I have, and I'm aware of basically every facebook post, every twitter comment, every picture etc. I'm a Museum addict. I have interest in Museums and tireless focus on them. I've also volunteered in historical facilities, had a paid position once and a love of history in general.

    So its been hard not having a provincial museum to go to for 3years. I've visited several other Museums since to feed the addiction, heh.

    Anyway long story short that for a museum with an already established entire collection of artifacts this opening is taking a hell of a longtime.

    Could also note that hundreds of people at the prior RAM closing including myself and family (there was a sign up list) volunteered their time to be used in any way further to helping in opening the new facility. I'm not aware of one person that got a call. Maybe that sign up volunteer binder was lost in the move. Should have barcoded that one..
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  22. #3222

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    Quote Originally Posted by GenWhy? View Post
    Opening it early for the sake of an anxious public before it's ready seems odd.
    Construction was FINISHED in August 2016.

    But it was completely OK to open it to dignitaries several times over because, you know, those people are just much more important and deserve several looks around before the public ever does. With this timeframe, to be clear, taking place over 18mths. I guess this is the sign of the times.

    Theres no reason for there not to have even been an open house or something, a sneak peak etc. If theres interest, and there is, why not do it? They could even make money off it.
    Last edited by Replacement; 19-02-2018 at 01:45 PM.
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  23. #3223
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    Most large (and small for that matter) scale public projects have tours at various points for various reasons. You do not want to generally open up a live construction site to the public for regular/large tours.
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Most large (and small for that matter) scale public projects have tours at various points for various reasons. You do not want to generally open up a live construction site to the public for regular/large tours.
    huh? so 18 months later the taxpayers get nada .... and your good with that?

    “Construction was FINISHED in August 2016”
    Last edited by EdmTrekker; 19-02-2018 at 02:07 PM.

  25. #3225

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    Construction, in a sense, might be "finished", but it is not ready to be open to the public. If it's not ready, why would you? It's neither a "sign of the times", this is normal.
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  26. #3226

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Most large (and small for that matter) scale public projects have tours at various points for various reasons. You do not want to generally open up a live construction site to the public for regular/large tours.
    It wasn't a "Live construction site" and you know that. Nor was it "live" when it was handed over to the RAM at the same time. There aren't live high voltage wires exposed when they hand it over to museum staff and curators.

    A bit of drywall finishing, celiling tiles and painting being most of what was left if that.
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    The GC handed it over to AI, but that doesn't mean it is any less of a 'live' site. Either way, why would you want to raise the curtain before the show is ready.
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  28. #3228

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    Commissioning of mechanical systems was scheduled for 18 months.
    This is museum quality HVAC, not a shopping mall.

    Once it has been successfully commissioned, the artifacts must be moved, acclimatized to the new environment, and placed for showing.
    Again, they are not stocking shelves in a store at the mall.

  29. #3229

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    It isn't the louvre with a world class art gallery either. many of the artifacts and displays found in the RAM collection are imminently replaceable. Indeed this has become a limitless industry with regards to curating museum artifacts or paintings. But with paintings the thinking being that most people want to see the paintings in as close to original quality as possible. On the Contrary if I'm looking at a ceremonial beaded vest the aged look can be part of the appeal. I don't need every bead and string of the artifact polished and or replaced nor does the artifact seem as close to original if such is done. lol that they do tiny bead by bead curation on those things. Theres a degree of overkill going on with curation that is not warranted as per most of the artifacts in the collection. Theres extremists that feel you can only preserve artifacts sight unseen. In which case one starts to wonder what the purpose is.

    These are the kind of people that polish china for 3mths and the silverware for 2mths and everybody would die of starvation waiting for dinner..


    post is tongue in cheek but perfection is endless and that's what is primarily currently occurring. I mean they're taking it to the degree of stitch by stitch reconstruction of artifacts.

    This reminds me of the Saga of the Natural History Museum. I believe this was the one was in London. They spent years painstakingly cleaning the overhead ornate glass to pristine clear clean quality to then only note that the actual artifacts were being deteriorated by the much more intense sunlight and that they were better off all along leaving the windows grimy as is. So that they end up painting some application on the windows to stop so much light from going in. This is the kind of nonsense you tend to get more and more of in present day with Museum curation.

    Its ramping up to be an industry where exhibits and artifacts are being "reconditioned" as much as they are on display. As we speak they are spending years removing some varnish from Mammoth tusks at RAM. Mammoth Tusks that are not in display quality to begin with and won't be due to substantial cracking, separation etc. its really an endless exercise.

    The fact of the matter is they could flat out buy better condition Mammoth Tusks that are preserved, beautiful condition, ready to go than the deteriorated tusks in their collection that they are paying people years to recondition. Of course the labor costs being much higher than just buying the perfectly preserved specimen outright. Saving pennies to spend dollars.
    Last edited by Replacement; 19-02-2018 at 05:04 PM.
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  30. #3230

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    Hmm. Replacement, was it you that was having issues with the timeline for the funicular just a short while back? Someone on that thread was.

  31. #3231

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Hmm. Replacement, was it you that was having issues with the timeline for the funicular just a short while back? Someone on that thread was.
    Its a recurring them in Edmonton and concern of many posters that virtually every project here is open late.
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  32. #3232
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    Well I noticed they have started going into the gift shop to what I assume set it up. Each time I pass by I see little steps forward.
    LRT is our future, time to push forward.

  33. #3233
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    Anyone with an opening date yet?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ustauk View Post
    2017-05-23

    Quote Originally Posted by buildings View Post
    ^for the life of me I can't understand why they installed the "Royal Alberta Museum" signage the way they did. The first 2 words are difficult to see being half against concrete and half against glass.
    I very strongly agreed with "buildings" - it was the worst thing about the street appeal of the place IMO. REALLY glad to see they removed that SW signage.

    My apologies, it's probably been commented on as it must have happened quite a while ago but to me shows how a small poorly executed detail can mess up the big picture.

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    They moved the sw signage to the west wall of the building and it looks fine now

  36. #3236

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Hmm. Replacement, was it you that was having issues with the timeline for the funicular just a short while back? Someone on that thread was.
    Its a recurring them in Edmonton and concern of many posters that virtually every project here is open late.
    As they say: “There’s never time to do it right, but always time to do it over”

    Just move the deadline if it’s not ready. The very same complainers will just bash what rushed work comes to the surface because reality of work was overshadowed by some deadline set on paper by someone long before that wouldn’t be actually doing the real work.

    Let me guess here. Some ribbon cutting ceremony or wine and cheese bash will force worker to meet the ‘need’ to meet that deadline rather than meet the need to set up the actual museum properly and completely. (Ever wonder how they ever completed the work on those deadline drive home makeover shows? Like slapping new latex paint over old oil based paint without sanding and priming. Not letting wood flooring acclimatize for a few weeks, not letting mortar set, finishes harden, checking fasteners on raised decks, testing alarm systems...)
    Last edited by KC; 06-04-2018 at 08:03 AM.

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    Hopefully the criminal element will move elsewhere once the RAM is open.
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  38. #3238

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Hmm. Replacement, was it you that was having issues with the timeline for the funicular just a short while back? Someone on that thread was.
    Its a recurring them in Edmonton and concern of many posters that virtually every project here is open late.
    As they say: “There’s never time to do it right, but always time to do it over”

    Just move the deadline if it’s not ready. The very same complainers will just bash what rushed work comes to the surface because reality of work was overshadowed by some deadline set on paper by someone long before that wouldn’t be actually doing the real work.

    Let me guess here. Some ribbon cutting ceremony or wine and cheese bash will force worker to meet the ‘need’ to meet that deadline rather than meet the need to set up the actual museum properly and completely. (Ever wonder how they ever completed the work on those deadline drive home makeover shows? Like slapping new latex paint over old oil based paint without sanding and priming. Not letting wood flooring acclimatize for a few weeks, not letting mortar set, finishes harden, checking fasteners on raised decks, testing alarm systems...)
    Well, my post was made over 2mths ago and theres still no news on an opening. We're spring 2018 now and not one word.

    Again its been cited that Construction was finished in August 2016. Is it really going to be 2yrs post construction completion to get a look at this?
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

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  40. #3240

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    For those inquiring about an opening date, It opened a few years ago.

  41. #3241
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    Damn I knew I should have gone there long ago. lol

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    Really wish the big screens they put up facing 104 didn't have that corner seam. Looks kind of cheap compared to the screens they have right down the street at Rogers Place.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Important note: instead of reading Staples' worthless blather, watch the video.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  45. #3245

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    She lost me with "Designs must work for people first". Being that this one largely doesn't. Its a drab concrete colorless monolithic that looks depressing fronting what is a depressing 97st. At least it could be said to fit in..

    Next she's frustrated that people judge artchitecture (intentional misspelling) superficially on appearance. Well what else is there to go on while we wait years for this thing to finally open? She says she wishes people would judge a work on its contribution, on what it does? So far what this work does is be closed to the public. Its good at that. The Building has been completed for two years and still closed to the public.

    Then some nuance. She describes the aspen tree and then reflects on the metal cladding with aspen leaf cutouts as if this evokes anything but butt ugly design. Sorry cold hard, drab sheets of metal to me don't service budding life. She chose the most lifeless material to try to emulate something as simple as an aspen. Can't even get that right.

    Finally, if architecture is like writing her pen ink stopped flowing on this design. She is right, we should expect the pen to write. This drab mausoleum doesn't evoke that or life. Its going to take more than people to have this be a living breathing space. I can see however that she has designed schools before. That comes out quite clearly, unfortunately, in the design. This place is about as fun looking as one would expect a Museum in Siberia to look.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  46. #3246

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    Man made materials like metal and plastic offer a lot of advantages over natural materials and can even look beautiful.

    Besides, Replacement, this reflects you and me: “she dives into the lives of her clients.”
    Last edited by KC; 18-05-2018 at 09:12 AM.

  47. #3247

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    What I don't understand is that Donna Clare talks about how she went backpacking in Europe when she was younger and how inspired she was by the busy city squares full of people and activity, but then I don't see any of that reflected in her architecture. Maybe I have missed some of her projects, but I don't know of a single one that has that 'European feel', or activates the public spaces around the building in any meaningful way. I respect her as a person, but I have never been a fan of her architecture precisely because of its 'coldness' and lack of animation. I suppose it's personal preference.
    "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits" - Einstein

  48. #3248

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Man made materials like metal and plastic offer a lot of advantages over natural materials and can even look beautiful.

    Besides, Replacement, this reflects you and me: “she dives into the lives of her clients.”
    She seems better at words than she currently is at art. This is a very tired design. She didn't dive in or breathe life to this one. I am unfamiliar with her previous work and if that is any better. This design is bland, dull, and depressing.

    Man made materials can work, can evoke. An example can be seen in the Meadows Recreational facility (a beautiful design and execution through and through. Impressive architecture) in the art work installation of plastic swaying reeds out front. In that case the kinetic art that moves softly in the wind and slightest breeze really does evoke living form. The little leaf cut outs in metal look more like bullet holes from any distance. Again perhaps apt to 97st surroundings.. tbh I have been up close to the facility and did not even discern those being leaf cutouts. One has to look very close, and really if its that obscure the translation does not work well. So many more effective ways to bring nature into art.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  49. #3249

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    Quote Originally Posted by GizmoForMayor View Post
    What I don't understand is that Donna Clare talks about how she went backpacking in Europe when she was younger and how inspired she was by the busy city squares full of people and activity, but then I don't see any of that reflected in her architecture. Maybe I have missed some of her projects, but I don't know of a single one that has that 'European feel', or activates the public spaces around the building in any meaningful way. I respect her as a person, but I have never been a fan of her architecture precisely because of its 'coldness' and lack of animation. I suppose it's personal preference.
    She strikes me as cold. Even aloof. She doesn't convey friendly, or warm, but more the intellect, and this is maybe transposed in the design. I do find it interesting as you do have knowledge of her previous designs and that you feel they are similarly cold. I'm only familiar with her work on the SCC expansion which I find similarly drab. She loves minimalist functional work. Not much for aesthetics.

    I agree with you in that European street scapes and squares do connect with, and evoke to the living. With this one I can see people entering and leaving. It isn't a welcoming or warm external space. It isn't one likely to make you linger and gaze back at it.

    edit; Apparently she also designed the TWOS Extension. The initial build is the only Douglas Cardinal design that didn't work for me. She gets a pass on that one as the whole facility is ugly and how to you match that grotesque form or even want to. But she seems to bring her High School Wings form of architecture to everything she touches. I'm getting pragmatic from her work but not inviting places.
    Last edited by Replacement; 18-05-2018 at 10:15 AM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  50. #3250

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    I'd just unearthed another article that stated that 2017 was the 5oth anniversary of the Alberta Provincial Museum and that the new Museum was expected to be open in 2017 in commemoration of that 50 year anniversary. What another sad fail that this didn't take place. I find it odd that today theres another front page article on the new RAM and not a peep on when the damn thing is expected to open. Maybe sometime this year would be nice..
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  51. #3251

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    It was originally an Alberta Centennial project in 2005. The fact that it's now being touted as a 50th anniversary of the museum project just shows how long it's been in the works.

  52. #3252
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    Just an all around disappointing build and although not a city project has bad optics because of the delays similar to the other city projects that have failed to complete on time.

    Donna Claire is trying to put lipstick on a pig and it is not working.

  53. #3253

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    I really wish they'd gone with the second one. At least it looked distinctive and somewhat interesting for the budget. https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/thread...nton-ab.17855/ Here is more: http://www.richardmeier.com/?project...-competition-2

  54. #3254
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocket252 View Post
    Just an all around disappointing build and although not a city project has bad optics because of the delays similar to the other city projects that have failed to complete on time.

    Donna Claire is trying to put lipstick on a pig and it is not working.

    The negativity on this, and most threads, is amazing. This is far from a “pig”. Nice looking building, great addition to our downtown.

  55. #3255
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocket252 View Post
    Just an all around disappointing build and although not a city project has bad optics because of the delays similar to the other city projects that have failed to complete on time.

    Donna Claire is trying to put lipstick on a pig and it is not working.

    The negativity on this, and most threads, is amazing. This is far from a “pig”. Nice looking building, great addition to our downtown.
    i think it’s much less “negativity” as you put it than it is frustration and disappointment with things that - for whatever reason - are simply not done or delivered as well as they could/should have been. those expectations didn’t exist 20 years ago and their existence is a sign of progress, not a sign of something wrong as long as the criticism is valid and constructive. for the most part that is the case, including here...
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

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    ^ Ken is correct.

    Expectations have been raised - we can do better.

  57. #3257

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    I think it has to be viewed in context with its surroundings. It does tend to complement the area.


    CONTEXT:





    *




    Brutalism’s Renaissance?
    JULY 3, 2015 | BY SAM SINGH
    http://spacing.ca/edmonton/2015/07/0...s-renaissance/


    City Hall, CN Tower:
    https://hiveminer.com/Tags/brutalism%2Ccanada/Recent



    The Brutalist truth: 1960s concrete is part of history - The Globe and Mail


    New York’s rechristened Met Breuer museum.

    “...
    Depending on who you consult, those surfaces represent honesty, technological innovation or sheer newness: as the critic Reyner Banham wrote, “a radicalism that owes nothing to precedent.”

    This is a legacy that is especially strong, and contentious, in Canada. For many, especially those who remember watching those centennial structures go up, these buildings don’t feel historic. But they are.
    ...”

    https://www.theglobeandmail.com/life...ticle29570488/
    *http://www.montrealgazette.com/Tower...925/story.html
    Last edited by KC; 18-05-2018 at 09:59 PM.

  58. #3258
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    I think the RAM looks fine to me.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

  59. #3259
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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Doug View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocket252 View Post
    Just an all around disappointing build and although not a city project has bad optics because of the delays similar to the other city projects that have failed to complete on time.

    Donna Claire is trying to put lipstick on a pig and it is not working.

    The negativity on this, and most threads, is amazing. This is far from a “pig”. Nice looking building, great addition to our downtown.
    i think it’s much less “negativity” as you put it than it is frustration and disappointment with things that - for whatever reason - are simply not done or delivered as well as they could/should have been. those expectations didn’t exist 20 years ago and their existence is a sign of progress, not a sign of something wrong as long as the criticism is valid and constructive. for the most part that is the case, including here...
    Sorry it is negativity, there is nothing wrong with this building. It is a nice looking building that adds a great deal to the area. On most threads, our projects are picked apart like meat off a carcass. The improvement in our downtown is amazing, as are the buildings we are in the process of constructing.

  60. #3260

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Doug View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocket252 View Post
    Just an all around disappointing build and although not a city project has bad optics because of the delays similar to the other city projects that have failed to complete on time.

    Donna Claire is trying to put lipstick on a pig and it is not working.

    The negativity on this, and most threads, is amazing. This is far from a “pig”. Nice looking building, great addition to our downtown.
    i think it’s much less “negativity” as you put it than it is frustration and disappointment with things that - for whatever reason - are simply not done or delivered as well as they could/should have been. those expectations didn’t exist 20 years ago and their existence is a sign of progress, not a sign of something wrong as long as the criticism is valid and constructive. for the most part that is the case, including here...
    Sorry it is negativity, there is nothing wrong with this building. It is a nice looking building that adds a great deal to the area. On most threads, our projects are picked apart like meat off a carcass. The improvement in our downtown is amazing, as are the buildings we are in the process of constructing.
    Honestly I think it looks fine. And I'm hearing late this year or early 2019 for the opening of the new location.

  61. #3261
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    i suppose i could agree with your assessment...

    the new ram might well be considered “fine” at least for almost half it’s elevations (it doesn’t look much better than the building it replaced for the more than the other half when viewed from 97 street or the north side - the same problem i have with the aga once you move last the signature corner and look at the rest of the building).

    it’s just that for more than 375 million dollars some of us think that we deserved something more than just “fine”.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  62. #3262

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    One would assume so. I keep hearing about construction cost as a culprit. The Oil sands has halted construction therefor steel and other resources for construction should have come down in prices; this should reflect what is being built going forward. Unfortunately, that is not the case.
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

  63. #3263
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    Well the building is now built, we have to just wait to see how well it will function. I think one of my biggest questions for the area around the building is how long will this structure remain all by itself. Will there be anymore construction in the relative near future on any other part of Station Lands (if that is what it's still called) since Galleria is for all intents and purposes gone as far as I know.
    LRT is our future, time to push forward.

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    Hopefully the exhibits will make up for the perceived lack of exterior pizazz. Curation and content make up a large portion of a museum's reputation. Big name international touring exhibits can also make up a significant part of its attractions and a major source of revenue for museums. As a result there is major competition amongst museums for those sort of exhibitions.

    Case in point was the "Bowie Is" exhibit that began in London's Victoria and Albert Museum and toured 10 countries from 2013 through 2018 with only the US having two stops in one country. There were only three stops in North America. In that sort of competitive environment it wouldn't hurt to have a newly built museum that warranted attention for its architecture. Newly built museums don't come along every day so I would say that it was a missed opportunity to make a statement.
    Last edited by norwoodguy; 27-05-2018 at 03:18 AM.
    Did my dog just fall into a pothole???

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    ^^simple answer, yes.
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    I think there are people in this province who don't see any value in the arts.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

  67. #3267

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    Yes, now they call themselves the UCP, before that they had other names and they ran the province for a long time. Soon they will again.

  68. #3268
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajs View Post
    Yes, now they call themselves the UCP, before that they had other names and they ran the province for a long time. Soon they will again.
    "I think there are people in this province who don't see any value in the arts."

    Exactly and why ET who is free enterpriser but liberal minded guy who values culture won't be voting UCP.

  69. #3269
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    Interesting from someone claiming that the UCP is narrow minded, you seem to be as well. Fiscal conservative, will vote UCP, love arts, probably my favorites are Monet or Turner, but times I lean to Caravaggio.

    To get back on topic, which is the new museum, I can't wait until it opens, Edmonton has been too long without a provincial museum.

  70. #3270

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    Quote Originally Posted by sundance View Post
    Interesting from someone claiming that the UCP is narrow minded, you seem to be as well. Fiscal conservative, will vote UCP, love arts, probably my favorites are Monet or Turner, but times I lean to Caravaggio.

    To get back on topic, which is the new museum, I can't wait until it opens, Edmonton has been too long without a provincial museum.
    Are lovers of the arts the same people as lovers of museums and history?

  71. #3271
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    In my case, yes.

  72. #3272
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    So don’t be disappointed when the UCP cut fund for arts and museums.
    “Canada is the only country in the world that knows how to live without an identity,”-Marshall McLuhan

  73. #3273

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    The museum is essentially a department of the provincial government. In that sense it's not quite like an art gallery or theatre, but of course it can have its funding cut.

    Main benefit of the new museum, other than being Downtown imo, is that it can exhibit so much more of the collections the museum has, which in the old space only had about 1-2% on display.
    www.decl.org

  74. #3274

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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenSPACE View Post
    The museum is essentially a department of the provincial government. In that sense it's not quite like an art gallery or theatre, but of course it can have its funding cut.

    Main benefit of the new museum, other than being Downtown imo, is that it can exhibit so much more of the collections the museum has, which in the old space only had about 1-2% on display.
    Hey, maybe reopen the old RAM purely for added special purpose exhibit space.

  75. #3275

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    old RAM needs asbestos removal and much work...I've heard that the whole hvac needs to be redone soon if it were to house sensitive museum collection again.

    Though I really wonder what will be done with the old space... Does anyone know yet?

  76. #3276
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    ^

    the whole "asbestos removal" is a bit of a bogeyman when it comes to deciding to reuse or demolish and existing building. the abatement procedures and cost are exactly the same and need to be completed before you can demolish anyway so you might as well repurpose and reuse the structure at that point instead of tearing it down.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  77. #3277

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    Sorry to divert the thread. Just think that even if the new RAM is twice the size of the old, yet is only capable of displaying a minuscule fraction of its collection, then...


    Existing Royal Alberta Museum - Redevelopment | Discussion

    http://www.connect2edmonton.ca/showt...ent-Discussion

  78. #3278
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    The Alberta Public Service have two preview tours for employees this week.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

  79. #3279

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    ^More opening date announcements coming soon.
    www.decl.org

  80. #3280
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    Good to hear and about time.

  81. #3281
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    Loving the homage to the post office murals here: https://www.canadianarchitect.com/aw...ds/1003743161/

    “Son, one day this will be an iconic structure shaping Edmonton’s skyline.”

  82. #3282
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    Still haven't heard any opening date other than "coming soon". To paraphrase that old song, how soon is now?
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    I used to work at the RAM a lifetime ago, and bumped into someone a few months ago who still works there. Rather than answer my question when I asked if they had a projected opening date, he laughed in my face.
    “Son, one day this will be an iconic structure shaping Edmonton’s skyline.”

  84. #3284

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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesL View Post
    I used to work at the RAM a lifetime ago, and bumped into someone a few months ago who still works there. Rather than answer my question when I asked if they had a projected opening date, he laughed in my face.
    He sounds like a fracking doushe bag you should have told him of C2E he would fit right in here.....

  85. #3285

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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesL View Post
    I used to work at the RAM a lifetime ago, and bumped into someone a few months ago who still works there. Rather than answer my question when I asked if they had a projected opening date, he laughed in my face.
    I would think the laugh was more about the worker perhaps being cynical about the opening date and whom might share a concern about how long this is being stretched out or alternately is one of those that figure. "we got all these finishing touches to do still, itll take decades..

    hard to know which, but you were there.

    Really I think a lot of these current staffers want the museum to themselves and see it as their own private enclave. I would really wonder if that feeling of "we like this quiet work environment, I hope the public never enters" tends to persist.

    It really is to the point of ridiculous how long this is taking.

    The former museum was conceived, built, filled, curated and opened in less time than its taken for this current museum to just open subsequent to Construction completion.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  86. #3286
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    At the Friends of the RAM meeting last week we heard that the opening date will be revealed soon.
    www.decl.org

    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by JamesL View Post
    I used to work at the RAM a lifetime ago, and bumped into someone a few months ago who still works there. Rather than answer my question when I asked if they had a projected opening date, he laughed in my face.
    I would think the laugh was more about the worker perhaps being cynical about the opening date and whom might share a concern about how long this is being stretched out or alternately is one of those that figure. "we got all these finishing touches to do still, itll take decades..

    hard to know which, but you were there.
    It was definitely a laugh coming from a place of cynicism; he truly had no idea. This was, I think, back in very early 2018, so maybe they'd have a better sense of things now.
    “Son, one day this will be an iconic structure shaping Edmonton’s skyline.”

  88. #3288
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    At the Friends of the RAM meeting last week we heard that the opening date will be revealed soon.
    So nothing said bout how far along they are, any delays?

  89. #3289

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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesL View Post
    Loving the homage to the post office murals here: https://www.canadianarchitect.com/aw...ds/1003743161/

    This is amazing and fantastic! Thank you so such for sharing this! Excited to bring ex-Edmontonians here. A friend passed through the other day after being away for a year and was stunned by how the city looked and felt.
    Live and love... your neighbourhood.

  90. #3290

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    While I'll never be at risk of losing a curmudgeon label saying this but that looks like the bombed out art deco basement of a building that was just re-entered after being closed 50yrs. Looks so old and yesterday. Not in a good way. But then again I never really got the fascination with the Post office murals. Seems strange how much homage there is to that. It wasn't appealing in the first place.

    Or Art Deco.

    This just gives me more reason to steer clear of a gift shop. its hideous looking. Could be a set from Clockwork Orange.
    Last edited by Replacement; 26-06-2018 at 03:45 PM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  91. #3291

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    I think it looks fantastic! Saying it looks like a set from Clockwork Orange is a good thing in my books
    "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits" - Einstein

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    While I'll never be at risk of losing a curmudgeon label saying this but that looks like the bombed out art deco basement of a building that was just re-entered after being closed 50yrs. Looks so old and yesterday. Not in a good way. But then again I never really got the fascination with the Post office murals. Seems strange how much homage there is to that. It wasn't appealing in the first place.

    Or Art Deco.

    This just gives me more reason to steer clear of a gift shop. its hideous looking. Could be a set from Clockwork Orange.
    Wow, another typical response from a very negative poster

  93. #3293

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    While I'll never be at risk of losing a curmudgeon label saying this but that looks like the bombed out art deco basement of a building that was just re-entered after being closed 50yrs. Looks so old and yesterday. Not in a good way. But then again I never really got the fascination with the Post office murals. Seems strange how much homage there is to that. It wasn't appealing in the first place.

    Or Art Deco.

    This just gives me more reason to steer clear of a gift shop. its hideous looking. Could be a set from Clockwork Orange.
    Wow, another typical response from a very negative poster

    Admit it, you read all of them. Why?


    Also, some of it just shtick. Obviously, as I even indicated it by labeling myself curmudgeon. In the end we pick and choose online persona's and I choose that one sometimes for a lark. You probably despise Top Dawg as much without seeing that most or all of it is just chosen online persona. My career doesn't afford me this nature of licence. So I take it where I can.

    I'm actually much nicer than this..
    Last edited by Replacement; 27-06-2018 at 12:02 PM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  94. #3294

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    Quote Originally Posted by GizmoForMayor View Post
    I think it looks fantastic! Saying it looks like a set from Clockwork Orange is a good thing in my books
    heh, I do like the movie and all of Kubricks works. Spellbinding director, life changing vision. Seeing his works confirms great art exists.

    That said I wouldn't want to live in some of his nightmare tableau landscapes. He drew some inspiration from the twilight zone btw. Rod Serling also having some great vision but more one sided on the macabre.

    I could envision the RAM gift shop being a back drop for an episode...


    Seriously though the gift shop looks kind of surreal and abstract and random. It looks like visual noise to me. If artists in the know could expand on what it actually does for them or tries to depict. tbh I didn't comprehend the Post office murals. But neither did the artist that did them. By her own admission she was just putting up shapes and contrasts. She was surprised what people found in them or that they even lasted. In the end it could just be nostalgia. People might remember looking at those things, being young, having a moment.

    Art is in the eyes of the beholder.


    I do like abstract, love Dali, Surrealism, this is my favorite album cover of alltime;


    https://www.discogs.com/10cc-Sheet-M...elease/5540194


    Oh, and that band is drippingly cynical, satirical, I love that too. They don't make em like that anymore..

    ps The Clockwork creep is at work there as well from the "worst band in the world and we know it"
    Last edited by Replacement; 27-06-2018 at 12:08 PM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

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    Opening date is before the Minister.
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    I wonder if Heaven 17 will come to play.

    Umphetico!
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

  97. #3297

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by GizmoForMayor View Post
    I think it looks fantastic! Saying it looks like a set from Clockwork Orange is a good thing in my books
    heh, I do like the movie and all of Kubricks works. Spellbinding director, life changing vision. Seeing his works confirms great art exists.

    That said I wouldn't want to live in some of his nightmare tableau landscapes. He drew some inspiration from the twilight zone btw. Rod Serling also having some great vision but more one sided on the macabre.

    I could envision the RAM gift shop being a back drop for an episode...


    Seriously though the gift shop looks kind of surreal and abstract and random. It looks like visual noise to me. If artists in the know could expand on what it actually does for them or tries to depict. tbh I didn't comprehend the Post office murals. But neither did the artist that did them. By her own admission she was just putting up shapes and contrasts. She was surprised what people found in them or that they even lasted. In the end it could just be nostalgia. People might remember looking at those things, being young, having a moment.

    Art is in the eyes of the beholder.


    I do like abstract, love Dali, Surrealism, this is my favorite album cover of alltime;


    https://www.discogs.com/10cc-Sheet-M...elease/5540194


    Oh, and that band is drippingly cynical, satirical, I love that too. They don't make em like that anymore..

    ps The Clockwork creep is at work there as well from the "worst band in the world and we know it"
    Thanks for providing that perspective, Replacement. I enjoyed reading that.
    "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits" - Einstein

  98. #3298

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    While I'll never be at risk of losing a curmudgeon label saying this but that looks like the bombed out art deco basement of a building that was just re-entered after being closed 50yrs. Looks so old and yesterday. Not in a good way. But then again I never really got the fascination with the Post office murals. Seems strange how much homage there is to that. It wasn't appealing in the first place.

    Or Art Deco.

    This just gives me more reason to steer clear of a gift shop. its hideous looking. Could be a set from Clockwork Orange.
    Wow, another typical response from a very negative poster
    Wow, another typical response from a very insular person who can't stand that someone has a different taste and opinion. Get used to it. people are different, unique. It we all liked the same things, the world would be very boring, and the queue lines for things would be so long, as we would all want the same things.

  99. #3299

    Default

    Thanks Meds

    So we have another long weekend opportunity which just happens to be end of school and a great time for families to have another family activity to go to and the RAM is not open for business by Canada Day. Another joyful time missed for some reason in the interminable delays that have not even been explained lately.

    Should we hope for Labor Day, Thanksgiving, Christmas?

    At least let the public know what is going on and what the delays are.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  100. #3300
    C2E Long Term Contributor
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Downtown Edmonton
    Posts
    49,113

    Default

    Again, the proposed dates have been submitted to the Minister for review and approval. Once that is done, expect an announcement.

    If I were a betting man, i'd say AB Cultural Days or mid-Oct.
    www.decl.org

    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

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