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Thread: Time to follow the Journal's example

  1. #1

    Default Time to follow the Journal's example

    The topic of anonymity continues to come and go on this forum and after viewing the dramatic change in civility of discussion with the Journal's shift to requiring the "facebook" tie in I am wondering how hard it would be to do the same on C2E?

  2. #2
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    C2E is already moderated and generally civil, while the Journal was becoming the stomping grounds of the obsessed and the paranoid. Why change something which is not broken?

  3. #3

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    Look at the comments re: an employee at EIA on the airport development thread recently.

    Now tell me things could not be better.

  4. #4

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    The journal comments section was ok for about two days after they made the changes. Looking at it now, the same people have signed up for fake Facebook accounts and the result it the same as before.
    A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims, but accomplices.

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    Anonymity is not the problem. I find the best forums are the ones with good moderation and community standards.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

  6. #6

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    I am with Tom. Time for a massive forum change
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

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    The forum was setup in such a way that users can choose how to identify themselves... If they chose a random username, that was their choice. I don't see any need to have personal names, birthdays, etc to make your opinion known about your community. Good moderation and rules are the way to make C2E a good place to discuss issues that we as Edmontonians face. Personally, I think a crack down on threads in no way related to Edmonton is a good idea. If you want to discuss your thoughts on which tile is best for your 85 year grandmothers kitchen to prevent slips and falls, there are more appropriate places for that discussion to take place. Sheer laziness is the reason our threads and forums are full of crap.

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    I don't think vBulletin would work with that.
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    I definitely wouldn't participate here if it was linked to FaceBook. I generally don't use FaceBook's commenting systems other than on FaceBook itself. I didn't even realize that the Journal had switched to FB as I have FaceBook Connect blocked.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

  10. #10

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    etownboarder

    I see your post above as three separate, but connected issues.

    1)
    The forum was setup in such a way that users can choose how to identify themselves... If they chose a random username, that was their choice.
    As I have seen in so many threads on this forum. that was then-this is now-we have to move forward with the future. Times change and so does the way people act.

    2)
    I don't see any need to have personal names, birthdays, etc to make your opinion known about your community. Good moderation and rules are the way to make C2E a good place to discuss issues that we as Edmontonians face.
    I see this as a cop out...we want the right to our "freedom of speech" but we don't want to accept responsibility for our actions, which I have a problem with.

    Anonymity also allows for multiple user names and other pains in the butt that also encourage poor behavior with no responsibility.

    3)
    Sheer laziness is the reason our threads and forums are full of crap.
    No the reason is you have few moderators because, from my chair, no one wants the job cause it's volunteer and takes time and they have to put up with comments like
    "sheer laziness" when they are doing their best as volunteers.

    Easy to criticize, tough to make things happen and even harder to be accountable for your actions.

    In my highly biased personal opinion

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by edmonton daily photo View Post
    I am with Tom. Time for a massive forum change
    What massive change would you like to see, and whats the goal on the change? Perhaps one could search before posting new threads? Maybe one could review their posts before pressing submit? A simple spell check? That would be a massive change I'd like to see.
    A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims, but accomplices.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Turnbull View Post
    I definitely wouldn't participate here if it was linked to FaceBook. I generally don't use FaceBook's commenting systems other than on FaceBook itself. I didn't even realize that the Journal had switched to FB as I have FaceBook Connect blocked.
    Well Paul I do appreciate your point of view.

    The facebook idea came from what the Journal has done, the idea was to get the conversation going again as we need to do something.

    The last round of nastiness was on the Air Development thread and ended up with EIA stepping into the conversation to comment on what had been said about an employee.

    At a minimum that doesn't do the credibility of this forum community any good, at worst it discredits the credibility of the forum community.

    If it's not facebook then I am more than open to other options.

    In my highly biased prsonal opinion

  13. #13

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    Whatever you say or do WILL be used against you, very little, if anything may, if ever, be used for you.

    So if I started to use my real name then I'd have to attach a 3 page notice to every posting: I reserve the right to be wrong, to change my mind, to make totally stupid off the wall comments, to make statements that are meant to challenge my own beliefs and/or create calm cool debates that may be useful at some future date where calmness and coolness are impossible, to provide "Great Ideas" long before their time, ...to not fully poof read my submissions and to suffer from distorted comments from autocorrect, iPad typos... My comments in no way should be construed as even remotely representing the views of my employer, my family, my neighbours, my mayor, my mind...

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    Moving to FB commenting would be a sure-fire way to destroy this community.

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    Quote Originally Posted by etownboarder View Post
    Sheer laziness is the reason our threads and forums are full of crap.

    I would definitely like you to expand on that point. I rely heavily on the report post function as, like many of you, I have a real job that takes up my day. I also volunteer on other initiatives. Plus, with the recent spam issue, that takes some manual intervention to review new users, new threads, and new posts. Some spammers are getting more clever and it is taking time to review the origin etc. of the poster.


    I suppose I could just be lazy and stop with what I actually do. I guarantee you will be overrun with spam in about 2 days as I delete over 100 messages and accounts on average per day, and the automated tools do even more.

  16. #16

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    99-cents to join the forum via credit card.

    2-cents per comment thereafter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Hinderks View Post
    The topic of anonymity continues to come and go on this forum and after viewing the dramatic change in civility of discussion with the Journal's shift to requiring the "facebook" tie in I am wondering how hard it would be to do the same on C2E?

    First off, we'd have to upgrade. That isn't hard.

    On the other hand, I see what Medwards has indicated and I also saw today. I recognize the syntax of the posters on the Journal, but they have created fake Facebook accounts. Their style is a dead giveaway though.

    We have looked at another method of proving your identity without giving it away or having us store personal information. This method will cost though, and we are not flush with revenue at C2E.

    I do understand the issue Tom. Thank you for bringing it to the forefront again. The airport thread is only one of the recent examples.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AAAAE View Post
    Moving to FB commenting would be a sure-fire way to destroy this community.
    if we are not careful to what we say about this community on C2E.
    Edmonton Rocks Rocks Rocks

  19. #19

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    Who cares tho really. I dont say anything on here I wouldnt say linked to my Facebook.

    Besides, i dont use my real name on Facebook either. So what would it solve?
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  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Whatever you say or do WILL be used against you, very little, if anything may, if ever, be used for you.

    So if I started to use my real name then I'd have to attach a 3 page notice to every posting: I reserve the right to be wrong, to change my mind, to make totally stupid off the wall comments, to make statements that are meant to challenge my own beliefs and/or create calm cool debates that may be useful at some future date where calmness and coolness are impossible, to provide "Great Ideas" long before their time, ...to not fully poof read my submissions and to suffer from distorted comments from autocorrect, iPad typos... My comments in no way should be construed as even remotely representing the views of my employer, my family, my neighbours, my mayor, my mind...
    Even posting without using your name does note protect your from liable and slander. The anominity you think you have right now doesn't actually exist.

    Maybe loosing some of the people who post here would be a good thing ... It seems that commenting on the Edmonton journal has actually increased since moving to the FB system.
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

  21. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Komrade View Post
    Who cares tho really. I dont say anything on here I wouldnt say linked to my Facebook.

    Besides, i dont use my real name on Facebook either. So what would it solve?
    Komrade

    I am not trying to be a smart *****, and I have been really trying to understand.

    What are you and others afraid of?

  22. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Hinderks View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Komrade View Post
    Who cares tho really. I dont say anything on here I wouldnt say linked to my Facebook.

    Besides, i dont use my real name on Facebook either. So what would it solve?
    Komrade

    I am not trying to be a smart *****, and I have been really trying to understand.

    What are you and others afraid of?
    In todays day and age of a lack of Privacy, I like to pick and choose who I add to my Facebook. Because Facebook is an open book into my life, their is certain people I care not to invite into it. IE) My boss, my grandma, ect.

    I like to get drunk and party, and most of my friends do to, so I am comfortable with sharing it on my Facebook. However their are certain people who may judge me based on my behaviors, so I choose not to have them on my facebook. Thats why i use different last name than my real one.

    I guess its like this. I dont care to act like an ***** in front of my friends. In front of my Grandma or boss, I need to be a bit more professional.
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    Quote Originally Posted by edmonton daily photo View Post
    It seems that commenting on the Edmonton journal has actually increased since moving to the FB system.
    I think lots of people don't like having multiple logins and accounts. Many people already have FaceBook accounts but couldn't be bothered to register a separate account with the Journal so didn't comment.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

  24. #24

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    ^ what does that have to do with the cost of tea in china... The number of and the quality of posts have dramatically improved since the journal has done this... That is my perception arrived at comparing it to here and other news sites such as the CBC which still allows faceless posting.
    Last edited by edmonton daily photo; 30-09-2012 at 08:05 PM.
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    ...ok...

    ...so having 100% knowledge of who is talking and what/when isn't in the immediate future...nor does it need to be...and one of the stumbling blocks of C2E's acceptance is the fact that local politico's don't know if they are engaging/hearing from voters or lobbiests from other jurisdictions...

    ...that said...I also empathize with the reality that some employers may be a bit upset if you are posting or getting involved politically...my last one prior to striking it out on my own was a great example...

    ...If...and that is a big if...I can finally get the cooperation of other areas in town, we will look at how to improve and expand...otherwise...this is as good as it gets until the money I've budgeted runs out...
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    Quote Originally Posted by edmonton daily photo View Post
    ^ what does that have to do with the cost of tea in china... The number of and the quality of posts have dramatically improved since the journal has done this... That is my perception arrived at comparing it to here and other news sites such as the CBC which still allows faceless posting.
    Pardon, but I wasn't commenting on the quality of the posts at the EJ just why the posting rate may have gone up when they moved to using FaceBook Connect.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Admin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by etownboarder View Post
    Sheer laziness is the reason our threads and forums are full of crap.

    I would definitely like you to expand on that point. I rely heavily on the report post function as, like many of you, I have a real job that takes up my day. I also volunteer on other initiatives. Plus, with the recent spam issue, that takes some manual intervention to review new users, new threads, and new posts. Some spammers are getting more clever and it is taking time to review the origin etc. of the poster.


    I suppose I could just be lazy and stop with what I actually do. I guarantee you will be overrun with spam in about 2 days as I delete over 100 messages and accounts on average per day, and the automated tools do even more.
    That wasn't a reference to the moderation team, more towards the users of C2E:

    1) people not participating in threads or forums and then all of a sudden becoming whole heartedly involved with a thread without doing any research on the topic or reading through even parts of the thread, let alone the whole thing.

    2) users not using the search function, or not knowing how to use the search function.

    3) users posting for the sake of posting. Do we really need threads with dozens of posts containing little more than "lol ?" I think not.

  28. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Komrade View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Hinderks View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Komrade View Post
    Who cares tho really. I dont say anything on here I wouldnt say linked to my Facebook.

    Besides, i dont use my real name on Facebook either. So what would it solve?
    Komrade

    I am not trying to be a smart *****, and I have been really trying to understand.

    What are you and others afraid of?
    In todays day and age of a lack of Privacy, I like to pick and choose who I add to my Facebook. Because Facebook is an open book into my life, their is certain people I care not to invite into it. IE) My boss, my grandma, ect.

    I like to get drunk and party, and most of my friends do to, so I am comfortable with sharing it on my Facebook. However their are certain people who may judge me based on my behaviors, so I choose not to have them on my facebook. Thats why i use different last name than my real one.

    I guess its like this. I dont care to act like an ***** in front of my friends. In front of my Grandma or boss, I need to be a bit more professional.
    Komrade

    I think you misunderstood, or I didn't make it clear, I wasn't referring to "facebook" I was referring to here.

    I get where you are coming from using facebook as an interfriend communication and I can understand not wanting to link to it.

    What I have a hard time understanding is what those who are forceful/insistent about being anonymous are afraid of?

  29. #29

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    If the actual mechanism used to identify yourself is facebook then I will not be able to participate here. I do not facebook, and I do not intend to start.

    On the broader issue of anonymity, speaking personally I have no problem using my real name or somehow identifying myself to the forum. I don't really keep my identity a secret anyway, anyone can click through on any of my photos to flickr and find my real name and other personal details. Details that I am comfortable having public.

    That said, I understand very well why some choose to stay anonymous, and if a real identity is required here you can pretty much expect a significant number of members to stop participating. I guess the question becomes is the civil discourse worth the almost certain drop in participation in the forum.
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    I really don't believe that posting under your own name or a pseudonym will make any difference to the quality of discourse offered on C2E. You have multiple personalities offering differing ideas. Disagreements and arguments will still occur. Again, it comes down to the moderation team and our own civility as C2E members which will improve the quality of posts and discussions on the forum.

  31. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Turnbull View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by edmonton daily photo View Post
    ^ what does that have to do with the cost of tea in china... The number of and the quality of posts have dramatically improved since the journal has done this... That is my perception arrived at comparing it to here and other news sites such as the CBC which still allows faceless posting.
    Pardon, but I wasn't commenting on the quality of the posts at the EJ just why the posting rate may have gone up when they moved to using FaceBook Connect.
    I would venture to say the posting rate went up because there is actually real topics to discuss instead of angry rants from al Capone
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

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    I appreciate the clarification etownborder.

    As for what you have listed, we brought in the thank you mod to stop the endless "good job", "nice post", and the ubiquitious "^bingo". However, there still will be the odd one liner.

    It is true that the search engine is your friend. Please use it.

    As for the third part, that is kind of life sometimes. I know that I sometimes get in the middle of a verbal conversation and then realize that I jumped in too soon. I guess the same happens here. I would kind of expect that people would take the time to read a lot of the thread to see what transpired, but that sometimes does not happen.

    I am not trying to excuse, and if we do get the ability to make this bigger and better, there will be more strenous posting guidelines. Right now, it is a bit relaxed.

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    Having taken some time to look over the posts at the EJ with the new system I'm not sure the posting rate is higher or not but it does look like the posting quality is higher.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

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    I would say the quality has improved...but I found it funny that in the column where they insulted everyone involved with race week, there was not opportunity to respond.

    So...you put up facebook comment capabilities...and then dump all over someone anonymously...and then don't allow the person to respond while using yoru fancy dancy new comment system...

    ...cowards...

    ...but yes....overall I see better quality posting...
    President and CEO - Airshow.

  35. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    The journal comments section was ok for about two days after they made the changes. Looking at it now, the same people have signed up for fake Facebook accounts and the result it the same as before.
    Yup. Anyone who has a bone to pick can make up a facebook account with a fake name (takes about 2 minutes) and run their mouths.

  36. #36

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    I am posting under my real name.

    I disagree strongly with the idea of "proving your identity".

    People who post under their own names can be just as childish and abusive as anonymous ones.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AShetsen View Post
    I am posting under my real name.

    I disagree strongly with the idea of "proving your identity".

    People who post under their own names can be just as childish and abusive as anonymous ones.
    Exactly. Some people are jerks and there isn't much that be done about that.

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    ^ agreed...

    ...from my standpoint...it comes to play when you try to mix anonymous vs known...and worse when you are trying to make this a site where credibility rules supreme...


    ..for me personally with C2E...it is about liability...we've been threatened one too many times...

    ...there are a few ideas being bantied about...but they all have thier issues....and in an anonymous world...well...
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    If you want to talk on facebook, then start a discussion group within facebook.

    Please leave c2e as an independent community.

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    Persoanlly...I hve no plans per se to use Facebook for many of the reasons outlined here...
    President and CEO - Airshow.

  41. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Hinderks View Post

    Komrade

    I think you misunderstood, or I didn't make it clear, I wasn't referring to "facebook" I was referring to here.

    I get where you are coming from using facebook as an interfriend communication and I can understand not wanting to link to it.

    What I have a hard time understanding is what those who are forceful/insistent about being anonymous are afraid of?
    Ahhh fair enough.

    I wouldnt have a problem if I had to use my real name for C2E.

    However anonymity allows people to express viewpoints they otherwise may be judged against for having.

    For example, If I was employed by Company X and someone had a thread asking What do people think about Company X. I would be able to reply truthfully and not worry about what Company X may think of my honest opinion.

    I get where people want to be anonymous. It allows freedom of expression without judgement. It allows people to debate without strawman (character bashing) arguments. I will agree that many abuse anonyminity and use it to say things they really dont believe just to get a reaction out of another person (trolling)
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  42. #42

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    This is an internet forum. They come with their issues. Issues which C2E is not immune to. I'm willing to accept those issues (anonymity, threads going off track, snide comments, etc) in the context of what C2E is - an internet forum.

    In terms of the airport employee being denigrated in another thread, that person is an employee of a very public institution and having people express their opinions of performance on this forum and others comes with the territory. I too work for a company with a high public profile (hence why I don't use my entire real name but it's not hard to figure out from my username) and I've had my performance reviewed on many other web sites. I roll with it and don't take it personally at all.

    In short, get a thicker skin and don't be so sensitive. Dry your eyes.

  43. #43

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    [QUOTE=Komrade;470543]
    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Hinderks View Post

    However anonymity allows people to express viewpoints they otherwise may be judged against for having.
    My question here would be "judged against' or "held accountable/responsible for"?

    There is a big difference. If you are afraid of saying something you can be "held accountable/responsible for" should it be said at all? And if stated anonymously can it be considered credible?

    In my highly biased personal opinion

  44. #44

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    ^ It's an internet forum, not a court of law. It is for the pleasure of its participants, who are free to be a part of it - or not.

  45. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by PJC View Post
    This is an internet forum. They come with their issues. Issues which C2E is not immune to. I'm willing to accept those issues (anonymity, threads going off track, snide comments, etc) in the context of what C2E is - an internet forum.

    In terms of the airport employee being denigrated in another thread, that person is an employee of a very public institution and having people express their opinions of performance on this forum and others comes with the territory. I too work for a company with a high public profile (hence why I don't use my entire real name but it's not hard to figure out from my username) and I've had my performance reviewed on many other web sites. I roll with it and don't take it personally at all.

    In short, get a thicker skin and don't be so sensitive. Dry your eyes.
    PJC

    You might find it strange but I agree if all it is to be is an "internet forum".

    But through out the threads of the forum there is a consistent message of wanting to "have a voice" and "be taken seriously".

    I know from talking to some involved on the creation of C2E, their desire from the start was to have C2E be more than an "internet forum" and carry credibility and a voice.

    In my highly biased personal opinion

  46. #46

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    ^ And despite the issues commiserate with it being an Internet forum it has absolutely been everything you say it is - and will continue to be.

    I think the changes you are recommending would dramatically reduce its effectiveness in those areas due to what would undoubtedly be a huge decrease in membership and participation.

    Yeah, C2E can be a little rough around the edges but so is Edmonton. As proud citizens we can take it...

  47. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by PJC View Post
    ^ And despite the issues commiserate with it being an Internet forum it has absolutely been everything you say it is - and will continue to be.

    I think the changes you are recommending would dramatically reduce its effectiveness in those areas due to what would undoubtedly be a huge decrease in membership and participation.

    Yeah, C2E can be a little rough around the edges but so is Edmonton. As proud citizens we can take it...
    PJC

    I guess we will agree to disagree.

    Comments I get from the outside relate to "who" and the whole "credibility issue" that comes from the anonymity issue and some of the commentary on the site.

    I also don't agree that removing anonymity (by whatever means, including simply traceability while maintaining a username) would cause a dramatic change in those posting.

    Many have figured it out already and have switched to using their real names as usernames or in their signature.

    You want a voice to be heard and credible? Then those listening want to know whose voice it is.

    In my highly biased personal opinion

    Agreeing to disagree is not a bad thing BTW...some debates have no conclusion

  48. #48

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    Facebook won't bring credibilty here. Just like Facebook hasn't brough credibility to the journal comments.

    I'm sure Julian Assad posting on all the stories on the Journal website is not, in fact, Julian Assad, or Julian Assange
    A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims, but accomplices.

  49. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    Facebook won't bring credibilty here. Just like Facebook hasn't brough credibility to the journal comments.

    I'm sure Julian Assad posting on all the stories on the Journal website is not, in fact, Julian Assad, or Julian Assange
    Medwards

    The Journal's facebook approach is one way, but I also said...

    (by whatever means, including simply traceability while maintaining a username) .
    In my highly biased personal opinion
    Last edited by Thomas Hinderks; 01-10-2012 at 04:26 PM. Reason: readability

  50. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Hinderks View Post

    Agreeing to disagree is not a bad thing BTW...some debates have no conclusion

    True dat, sir. Totally agree on that point. Cheers.

  51. #51

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    can you go further and explain what you mean by traceability? How is a facebook fake username any more traceable than any sort of user name on c2e?
    A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims, but accomplices.

  52. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    can you go further and explain what you mean by traceability? How is a facebook fake username any more traceable than any sort of user name on c2e?
    I would let the admin figure that out, I am no expert which is why I thought the Journal's approach interesting.

    In my highly biased personal opinion

  53. #53
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    I remember being in many of these discussions but the upshot usually is that most regular posters (whether anonymous or not) will tend to establish some sort of reputation / identity. On one newsgroup I follow, I have "known" some people for over a decade even though they have abstract handles and others I have relegated to kook status even though they have real sounding names.

    In the early days of newsgroups I posted with my entire name which was a bit unusual but I never had a problem as a result. When I was a member of an outlier group I used a made-up name but it was the sort of name I could be addressed as in public. That group had a real time identity where I got used to being addressed by my alternate name and most people there thought it was my real one. BTW, I post here with my real first name and I am not hard to find.

    I don't believe that at C2E we can post as "anonymous" or "guest" and that is where I have observed the most problems at EJ type comments sections. The real problems are caused when new identities can be so easily created that you have torrents of sock puppets or arguing bots (yes, I've encounted those but mostly on chat lines). I happen to think that C2E works really smoothly.

    The real problems (like the one that started this thread though I never saw it) can only be managed by reporting the posts and having the mod(s) deal with it.

    Eve

  54. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Hinderks View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    can you go further and explain what you mean by traceability? How is a facebook fake username any more traceable than any sort of user name on c2e?
    I would let the admin figure that out, I am no expert which is why I thought the Journal's approach interesting.

    In my highly biased personal opinion
    Facebook or not, your post is still tied to a unique ip address...

    I'm not sure what you want to let admin figure out? Maybe your grasp of how the internet works could use a little brush up, but tieing a facebook account to your posts on c2e isn't going to achieve the goal you hope it would. Facebook brings no more, or no less accountability then a normal username on c2e would, or even the old fashion letter to the editor using the handle I. P. Knightly.
    Traceability? What are you looking to trace? Tracing a made up username to facebook does as much good as tracing a post to a random username on c2e does.

    I really don't understand what you are trying to achieve. This is, after all, an internet forum, no matter how you look at it. And at that, a very mild and well behave, well moderate community. I also never saw the incident which sparked this thread. That said, you post on this forum and the admin can see your ip address. Your ip address is your connection, and if someone did something unlawful, it could easily be brought to the police, and the police could summon the IP provide to give up the details of who that ip address was being used by.
    Last edited by Medwards; 01-10-2012 at 06:16 PM.
    A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims, but accomplices.

  55. #55
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    I agree with the comments already made. I think as a whole this is a pretty self-regulating community, and I don't think introducing a facebook requirement provides any gains in credibility.

    I personally don't take much of an issue in being anonymous or not, but I do think this forum does gain something by having a bit of a "disconnect" sometimes. This is an era when anyone can look you up in a couple of seconds. Some people on here share some very strong, and sometimes personal, opinions about various groups / organizations / people in the city. Whether they be good or bad, these sort of opinions might clash with the views of your employer, friends, etc. I think there would be something lost in terms of the openess of some people if something like facebook were to be used.

  56. #56

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    medwards
    That said, you post on this forum and the admin can see your ip address. Your ip address is your connection, and if someone did something unlawful, it could easily be brought to the police, and the police could summon the IP provide to give up the details of who that ip address was being used by.
    Thanks medwards but I am familiar with the ip systems to the point of knowing, as an example, that in our facility it would only get you back to the building not the specific computer, add in our wifi system and it gets even tougher.

    I myself post from 3 different locations regularly.

    All that said...I appreciate your point of view and that of others, facebook was one system and apparently not the solution in this case.

    Seems the real issue is far greater, shame.

    Thanks for the input

    In my highly biased personal opinion

    added after:

    I am encouraged though that more and more members are stepping out from behind the veil of anonymity as they see benefits...even you regularly throw out your real full name.

    Patience I guess.
    Last edited by Thomas Hinderks; 02-10-2012 at 03:01 PM.

  57. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Hinderks View Post
    My question here would be "judged against' or "held accountable/responsible for"?

    There is a big difference. If you are afraid of saying something you can be "held accountable/responsible for" should it be said at all? And if stated anonymously can it be considered credible?

    In my highly biased personal opinion
    Judgment imo. Because my personal name would allow others to dive into my backstory to create strawman arguments to judge/discredit my opinion.

    For example, let’s say you were involved in BDSM. We are having a debate about the ECC airport and dont agree. Rather than debate your argument, I delve into your personal life (which would be accessible as I have your full name) and then use that as a strawman argument. "Well what the hell does he know about Airports, he is just a bondage freak" Its a ridiculous example, but it illustrates my point.

    Anonymity allows people to attack/debate the argument, not the poster itself.
    youtube.com/BrothersGrim
    facebook.com/BrothersGrimMusic

  58. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by Komrade View Post
    Anonymity allows people to attack/debate the argument, not the poster itself.
    x2. In addition, there will always be people who need titiles or positions to prove they know more than someone else, but on here, most of us don't need that. The strength or stupidity or our arguments is open to agreement or scorn, which is how it should be. The other interesting thing is many people on this forum are working while dipping in (for a break or whatever), which raises all sorts of legal issues. Are your views "yours" or are they the views / property of the company on whose time you are working?

  59. #59

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    Komrade

    While I appreciate your point of view
    We are having a debate about the ECC airport and dont agree. Rather than debate your argument, I delve into your personal life
    Been there done that, ECCA, the Indy, bringing the first races here in 1996. Not just from this forum.

    I have paid a price for many things I believe in and have stood behind including the last election and will continue to because that is how change is made.

    If I believe in something enough to have an opinion and a position I will stand up for it, say what I believe and take the heat.

    So to end the discussion (for me anyway) I appreciate the differing points of view, but if you want to make change you can't do it behind a username.

    But to each their own and at this time it's pretty obvious C2E doesn't want to change.

    In my highly biased personal opinion

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Komrade View Post
    Anonymity allows people to attack/debate the argument, not the poster itself.
    Interesting theory but I've generally found that people are more willing to attack an anonymous handle than a person. While I have numerous issues with places like FaceBook where people generally use their real names, I do find flame wars are far less common there. People are better behaved when their own reputation is at stake.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

  61. #61

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    I would use my real name here, but I could get in trouble with my job. Not that I've posted anything too controversial here, right?

  62. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by edmonton daily photo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Whatever you say or do WILL be used against you, very little, if anything may, if ever, be used for you.

    So if I started to use my real name then I'd have to attach a 3 page notice to every posting: I reserve the right to be wrong, to change my mind, to make totally stupid off the wall comments, to make statements that are meant to challenge my own beliefs and/or create calm cool debates that may be useful at some future date where calmness and coolness are impossible, to provide "Great Ideas" long before their time, ...to not fully poof read my submissions and to suffer from distorted comments from autocorrect, iPad typos... My comments in no way should be construed as even remotely representing the views of my employer, my family, my neighbours, my mayor, my mind...
    Even posting without using your name does note protect your from liable and slander. The anominity you think you have right now doesn't actually exist.

    Maybe loosing some of the people who post here would be a good thing ... It seems that commenting on the Edmonton journal has actually increased since moving to the FB system.
    It has nothing to do with liable or slander, it's about solving problems, voicing concerns, stating opinions that you may eventually abandon... And not being held to every past thought or word by some future acquaintance or employer.

    Moreover, I don't think I do have that anonymity you talk about. Someone at c2e likely has access to my information and I'd place good odds on the system having been hacked or accessed by some or the other entity. Anyway, numerous non-posting friends receive regular e-mails from me on mine and other threads. Of course, they use everything I say against me.
    Last edited by KC; 03-10-2012 at 12:55 AM.

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Turnbull View Post

    Interesting theory but I've generally found that people are more willing to attack an anonymous handle than a person. While I have numerous issues with places like FaceBook where people generally use their real names, I do find flame wars are far less common there. People are better behaved when their own reputation is at stake.
    The evidence gathered here over the past several years would appear to support this point of view.

  64. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Komrade View Post
    Anonymity allows people to attack/debate the argument, not the poster itself.
    x2. In addition, there will always be people who need titiles or positions to prove they know more than someone else, but on here, most of us don't need that. The strength or stupidity or our arguments is open to agreement or scorn, which is how it should be. The other interesting thing is many people on this forum are working while dipping in (for a break or whatever), which raises all sorts of legal issues. Are your views "yours" or are they the views / property of the company on whose time you are working?
    Great point. You might see it as community service, it might be of great community service, and your employer may even promote community service, but don't expect to keep your job if your contributions are discovered. However, you likely can sit at work and safely spread rumours about coworkers, talk about getting plastered at some party, or show everyone pictures of your South American adventures or whatever...

  65. #65
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    To address the company time argument, I strongly suggest you review your employer's policy on the issue. You may very well be surprised at it.

  66. #66

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    Question. We all had the option of using our real names when signing up to c2e. For those that didn't, why didn't you?


    What's the ratio of real to fake identifiers? 99 to 1 ?


    Lastly, here's one option. Eliminate all names from all posts. Then allow users to reveal names according to some set rules, like a majority vote/click on unruly posters.

  67. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by Admin View Post
    To address the company time argument, I strongly suggest you review your employer's policy on the issue. You may very well be surprised at it.
    What's typical?

    All I know is that past employers could look at anything I was doing. I imagine my emails were looked at periodically too.
    Last edited by KC; 03-10-2012 at 01:23 AM.

  68. #68
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    ^You got it.

    If you're worried if your employer knows who you are on C2E, if you've used your work machine and work at a place that has an IT team, odds are they know.

  69. #69

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    Now, use your real name, one traceable to you, and I bet it become part of any dossiers on you.

    "Employer note: applicant is part of the 1/10 of 1% that posts to a weird little local complaint site called c2e that seems to focus on arenas, iphone and military hardware choices. Has numerous posts at all times of the day (possibly during work hours, though maybe on days off), plus late at night so may be an insomniac or drug user, or something worse. A quick review of her numerous postings reveals areas of concern. Has used phrases such as: "I hate", "whites are the worst"...." NB - As in I hate it when it rains, for car colors whites are the worst, they show all the dirt...

    You post it from work and be assured some will look at it. You post it from home with your real name and be assured some associate or potential associate with differing opinions than you will read it, talk about it and possibly criticize it and probably you - but probably off line and not on the forum where you posted and so not in a way where you can defend yourself or correct the record.


    .
    Last edited by KC; 03-10-2012 at 07:51 AM.

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Admin View Post
    ^You got it.

    If you're worried if your employer knows who you are on C2E, if you've used your work machine and work at a place that has an IT team, odds are they know.
    My coworkers and I once considered getting a set of t-shirts that said "I read your email". The irony was that we actually don't go into someone's mailbox without cause or actively monitor their email, although we do make it clear that the organizations email address is ours.

    Some monitoring can be inadvertent. We've run dedicated spam filters for years. When reviewing it for false positives you get a view of the kinds of things people sign up for by the kind of spam being directed at them.

    Also be aware that it's reasonably easy now for any organization to buy an off the shelf box that filters and monitors Internet traffic.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

  71. #71
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    Thanks Paul.

    It is not like corporate IT organizations are reading your e-mails 24X7, but they will see you going onto certain sites. If you do it often enough, it will raise curiosity.

    Remember posters, the company's network and computing assets belong to that company. Most employee handbooks and guides expressly state that there is no assumed right to privacy while on that network.

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    You post it from work and be assured some will look at it.

    .
    The correction I would make is the following:

    You post it from work, you can be assured that there is the ability to look at it. Whether they do or not is up to how you behave, or how the policy is structured.

    However, this does not really help our discussion here about accountability on C2E. I know from my side, I am going to be less tolerant of slurs, insults, and accusations that cannot be backed up. I am tired of the hate mail.

  73. #73

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    I have always been civil and mature on this site, and never had any issues with people. In fact, I have had many people help answer my questions.

    Yes, there are some people that troll or like to start things online, but you can just choose to ignore them and move on. I think if anyone gets bothered by what some random stranger says online, then maybe they need to step away from the computer and take a deep breath.

    And doing something like a Facebook account for comments won't solve anything. You can still create fake profiles. Maybe Connect can just do an "Ignore" function.

  74. #74

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    I don't have a Facebook page either. When it comes to Facebook Betty White had the right idea. It does not bother me one way or another if people use their real name or a moniker although I do find that the people who use their real names are more sweetness and light than the ones who don't. Well, maybe not sweetness and light but I know there are a couple of gentlemen that post here who are always very civil and what's more, they always seem very sincere. For all of us who may think someone has been harsh on someone else who's to say they did not apologize by P.M. I don't ignore people as I don't take some peoples snipes to heart. If you don't like what I have to say fine, ditto from me to you.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  75. #75

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    Kind of silly, but topical article from the WSJ:
    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...mLifeStyle_hof
    Support the mob or mysteriously disappear...

  76. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    I'm sure Julian Assad posting on all the stories on the Journal website is not, in fact, Julian Assad, or Julian Assange
    You know, I'm not sure that 'Joe Albertan' guy who posts on the Edmonton Journal website is using his real name on his facebook account, either.

  77. #77
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    Julius Assad just stirs the pot on all those stories. If you back up your comments/views he backs off almost immediately.

    I wish *Top Commenter didn't show up next to my name. I think it makes me look like a crackpot.

  78. #78
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    I've just read several of the Venting pages. There are lots of absolutely stupid comments there.
    Fly Edmonton first. Support EIA

  79. #79
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    Yes...venting is the lowest form of feedback on the Journal...if there was a section to axe it would be that one. Venting...Twitter for the angry muppets...
    President and CEO - Airshow.

  80. #80

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    Venting section always gives me a chuckle
    A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims, but accomplices.

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